Penguins Find Themselves Back In A Playoff Spot

On this episode, the Nick’s discuss the Pittsburgh Penguins dominant 9-3-1 stretch since December 11th and what their ceiling may be in this regular season (2:50). They also debate whether William Nylander’s massive contract extension with the Toronto Maple Leafs laid the groundwork for a potential Jake Guentzel extension with the Penguins (19:06).

The guys finished this episode reacting to Reilly Smith’s demotion in the Penguins lineup (36:20) and the Philadelphia Flyers having to trade away their top prospect, Cutter Gauthier (45:48). Tune In!

The top podcast for the most avid Penguins fans! Tune in as Nick Brlansky and Nick Horwat bring you all of the Pittsburgh Penguins top news and analysis every day! New episodes of “Tip of the Ice-Burgh” on Tuesday & Thursday and “Ice-Burgh To Go” on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

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Hello everybody and welcome to the tip of the iceberg podcast brought to you as always by inside the penguin.com a proud affiliate of the hockey news I’m your host Nick bansky joined as always by Nick horwatt and the Pittsburgh Penguins don’t look now but they’re tied for the

Last playoff spot in the Eastern Conference we’ll talk about them getting back into that spot what it’s taken through this past couple of honestly past month to get them to that point and then we’re also going to talk a little bit about maybe one of their top Stars

Having an idea about what he should be asking for for his next contract Jake gensel has been in a news a lot this past week and somebody comparable to him just signed a major deal north of the Border we’ll talk talk about that in the second segment and then the third

Segment a little bit of housekeeping Riley Smith demoted Drew o’ Conor promoted and you know we’re going to talk a little bit about noted Pittsburgh Penguins fan cutter gotier being traded away from the Philadelphia Flyers but hor up before we get to that I know you

Missed the game last night how was the concert that you went to and who was it again because I don’t remember oh it’s okay I’m sure no one’s going to understand the band names of uh Story of the Year and We the Kings for for those

That know We the Kings they the Czech Yes Juliet band um other than that it was a good show thank thank you for covering for me last night I bought these tickets well before the schedule was announced so you know thankfully it was in a away game and I didn’t have to

Sell anything I was able to have someone cover I had a good time good show my voice sounds like this because I’m getting over a slight cold I think so it’s not because I was yell in screaming last night I promise it’s debatable I don’t know if I believe you on that one

But we’ll take your word for it I think most of us know if you go to that show you’re probably screaming a little bit like if you didn’t scream at all then you’re just the guy that stood there with his hands in his pockets and that’s

Even weirder so I’m going to give you a benefit of the doubt and say you probably scream more than you’re giving yourself credit for I’m I’m growing old at concerts I’m like I’m The Quiet One now these days I just kind of sit there like bobbing my head I enjoy myself have

A couple of drinks I’m going the opposite way I am definitely a drunk white when I go out it is it is it is not a pretty scene but you know regardless everybody uh kicks back and hangs loose and has a good time also depends on the show if it like if

Whenever Green Day comes around this summer it’ll be a little bit different following up that uh our podcast after that show after that show might be a little different but yeah at that point you’ll be sounding like you had six packs a day you know what the Penguins I

Thought they were pretty good either that or Doc Rivers whatever’s uh closer in your eyes but you know the Pittsburgh Penguins uh let’s get back on topic here because people are probably like I don’t care the penguins are in the playoff spot let’s talk about that instead you

Know what fine I agree with you let’s talk about that Penguins defeat the Philadelphia Flyers 4 to one at well Wells Fargo Center last night tonight goals coming from Ricard Raquel on the power play fourth straight game with a power play goal for the Pittsburgh Penguins Eric Carlson puts the puck in

The back of the net for the first time in 18 games Chad rule puts the puck in the back of the net since he had hair I guess uh and ofgy Malin finishes off the scoring in the third period with a beautiful assist coming from jro Connor with that Victory the Pittsburgh

Penguins are now in a four-way tie for the second wild card spot in the Eastern Conference with 44 points in the standings and they are two points behind both the Flyers and the New York Islanders for wild card one and Metropolitan three so a good spot in the

Standings right now for the Pittsburgh Penguin certainly better than what they looked like a month ago to this day oh much better far improved I think I we don’t want to say that the Kyle Dub’s press conference is what kicked the team into gear but that’s going to be one of

Those you know if things turn out correctly one of those Turning Point moments of the season I think we discussed a couple of those last year uh the turning points of the good and the Bad and the Ugly um this time around that kadis press conference looks like

The turning point for the very good the Penguins needed you know to be on a certain Pace I believe the pace was uh 33 18 and five from that point uh to reach just the bare minimum or not the bare but to reach the average amount of

Points it takes to make the playoffs um and since then you they’re nine3 and one they’re they’ve been rocking and rolling since that press conference again who knows exactly what may have been said behind the scenes that may have kick started something new for this but um in

The grand scheme of things we’re going to look at that Kyle DUIs press conference where he discussed the struggling power play the um you the position that they are in and he did compare or not compared but did bring up the other teams in the division that are

Also were in similar situations they seem to still be there because the penguins are right there with them um and he also discussed Jesse py because you know that’s the question I had for him which again he’s making progress he’s playing in the AHL now so since that point the penguins have really

Found a good Rhythm I will say though it feels like every loss is the end of the world it does feel like every all three of those losses come at just the worst times yeah at the end of the day I mean every loss right now is going to be

Elevated because one loss could drop you Bel below three or four teams just because of how close everybody is in the standings but at the end of the day you look at what the Pittsburgh Penguins have done 93 and one since December 11th that’s a phenomenal record and they’ve

Beaten some pretty good teams as well and teams that have given them fits in in in history as well over the past couple of Seasons they’ve beaten the the hurricanes in that stretch they’ve beaten the Islanders twice in that stretch they beat the Flyers last night

Handedly uh if you go back to money.com which you know it’s an imperfect thing that deserve to win a meter but 95% to 5% is ridiculous like that this morning because I knew you know the Pittsburgh Penguins dominated last night you you didn’t have to look at a deserve to win

Meter to know that the Pittsburgh Penguins were the far superior team last night but 95 to5 is uh something out of this world and I think part of that was kind of a skewed because the Flyers just continued to take some pretty late hits or or take some Liberties on some of the

Penguin Star players and it turned into just a brawl in a UFC fight at points but you know the Pittsburgh Penguins when it came to the actual sport of hockey playing you know trying to score goals and that the Pittsburgh Penguins did far better than the the Philadelphia

Flyers and I think part of that also was Alex NAD delovic doing a great job at swallowing pucks he gave up four rebound shots last night that was it of their 37 so a great job from Alex NAD delovic a good bounce back but you mentioned the

Kyle DUIs thing I do want to touch on it really quickly you look at where they were at on the 11th yeah it might have been the Kyle dubis thing but you know what else happened leading up to that turnaround two losses back toback to the Philadelphia Flyers in overtime a loss

In Florida to the Tampa Bay Lightning which they looked horrible in it should have been way worse than three to one and a loss to the Florida Panthers which they did look fairly decent in but nothing was clicking so a four-game losing streak going into the 11th and at

That point they were I believe in second the last place in the Metropolitan Division that also keyed the turnaround I mean I’m sure this is a proud team you go 0 and three on a road trip against Philadelphia Tampa Bay and Florida that’s going to eat it some people

Especially the back-to-back losses in a home and home to the Philadelphia Flyers so you know turning that around I I think there was a lot that went into it Kyle DUIs is presser is one thing but I think if you look at the losing streak leading up to that turnaround that tells

You that it’s probably has something to do with the leadership as well and Sydney Crosby of getting M and Mike Sullivan even saying all right enough is enough here like we need to go now because we’ve put ourselves in a corner and to this point they’re still not out

Of the corner completely but they’re certainly in a much better position as we mentioned yeah and it wasn’t even just the fact you they were um in what is it you said f second to last in the Metropolitan Division they were like third to last in the Eastern Conference

Like they were closer to the basement of the Eastern Conference than they were uh a playoff spot that’s how much they were struggling I mean at one point thankfully you bring you mentioned money Puck and I immedately pull up there they have a tracking of where each team is

Ranked through the course of the Season it was early on but there was at one point they were last in the Metro behind even uh a struggling Columbus Blue Jackets team you if you look at the way they’ve played through the division they’re starting to really find their

Way up find their groove especially amongst the Eastern Conference teams but um kicking up kicking that four game losing streak out and bringing this new this new turning point they’re I mean the Metro is so tight still that they’re still not in phenomenal standing but it’s far better than what it was and

They’re riding a good Rhythm right now there’s still very little room for error I think that’s at the end of the day that’s where you have to look at this team yeah they’ve done a great job to put themselves in a better position but

There’s not a lot of room for them to to fall back and have a struggling week or two because at the end of the day right now the Pittsburgh Penguins they just need to keep stacking that’s what they’ve been doing over the past month they get a victory they stack the

Victories if they lose they come back and they get back on the winning track very very soon after that what they need to continue to do it’s not you know it’d be nice if they won eight nine 10 games in a row that certainly would help but

It’s if you lose that game like you mentioned sometimes it feels like the end of the world it felt like the end of the world whenever they lost that game to the Washington Capitals but again you look at that game it was seven minutes seven minutes where this team looked

Like the worst team in hockey and then they dominated the rest of the night I came away from that night and I said it on the recap that night I came away from that game Thinking Washington capital are not that good they are not that much better than the Pittsburgh they’re not

Better than the Pittsburgh Penguins when it comes to actual on Ice performance they’re not if the Pittsburgh Penguins are playing their game that is the biggest issue with this team is from time to time they just come out and and lay an egg and is that on coaching is that on the

Players I think Kyle dubis mentioned on on the GM show I think it was last week that he he more so puts that on the players um he trusts that Mike Sullivan has these guys ready and it’s on the players to want to go out there and

Perform so you know if they can eliminate that or at least limit it that’s going to go a long way and continuing their Ascension up the Eastern Conference standings yeah and you mentioned the the Washington loss you’re right they did come out of that game you know with some positive energy

I would say the Buffalo loss kind of hurt I mean but again they were playing decently enough but it was a weird game where they were just getting goaled because it always happens against Buffalo they didn’t even get goaled three posts two disallowed goals I mean they just weren’t finishing

Opportunities I mean I don’t want to take anything away from ukap Lucan and he had a great game but there was four or five goals in that game for the penguins that were you know an inch away from being actual goals and in in two instances they were actual goals they

Beat them but they just made a mistake here or there and the gel won you can say what you want about you know the referees and the call for the goener interference I mean again you’re an inch away if he’s an inch away from the crease it’s probably

Not called yeah because the reaction from UPL is probably smaller but you know at the end of the day 93 and one in their last what is that then 13 games that’s a pretty good record that’s a pretty damn good record you don’t get much better than that so with that I do

Have a question here as I sit here with you horwat on January 9th of 2024 my question is this forget the playoffs for right now because it’s hard to predict playoffs in January because it a lot of that depends on who’s hot in March in January right now what is the Penguin

Ceiling in the regular season uh it’s it’s pretty high at this point I’d say this is a team that can go places um it’s hard to say where the ceiling is without mentioning the playoffs at least because it’s gonna be a PO a point of uh point of Interest

Considering they just missed last year going into this season that was at least the bare minimum make the playoffs again and then go for the run after I would say you know if you’re given a ceiling genuinely they can make it in the the top three of the Metropolitan

Division I don’t know about first I I know uh the Rangers have slipped a little but they might just be a little too far gone in a way to catch but 10 points is a lot of points in the standings but the Pittsburgh Penguins and Rangers haven’t faced head-to-head

Yet thought they did once at least definitely did at least once did they um yeah because Jonathan Quick that’s right was the one nothing game yeah so a long time ago Jesus yeah being sorry getting to but also Carolina’s at a catchable distance they’re at 49 it’s

You know Five Points rather than 10 it’s catchable for now um and if things go properly uh in just a couple of days we could be talking about the penguin sitting third in the Metro maybe even second in a couple of days after that especially with Carolina coming up on

Saturday yeah there’s some real progress that could be made here so genuinely I would say the ceiling could be second in the Metro yeah I agree age with you that uh a Metropolitan Division title might be a little Out Of Reach 10 points in the standings not to mention the New

York Rangers are a wagon this year yeah they got absolutely waxed last night by the Vancouver Canucks who were coming to Pittsburgh here in a couple of days but the the Rangers have been a very very good hockey team they’re constructed well on paper as they have been for the

Last two years they’re starting to put it together on the ice I I mean goal tending they finally have a backup and Jonathan Quick who can just go out there and steal games I mean just as eigor shurkin can do as their starter and they’re just a good team on paper they

They have a lot of a lot of the boxes checked so I I think that might be a little Out Of Reach but I agree with you top three in the Metro is definitely the ceiling but I also expect there to be a slight at the very least slight

Regression to the mean here I mean 93 and one is that sustainable for a team right now that is really getting a lot of help from around the lineup right now I mean Sydney Crosby is not lighting the world on fire as much as he he used to I

Mean there’s the game in Boston where he scores three points but he didn’t score a single point in Philadelphia yesterday and the Pittsburgh Penguins still bodied the flyers I I mean Malin scoring Ricard Raquel has 10 points in 10 games since he returned Drew Connor has a new career

High he has 14 points on the season and I believe he scored five or he scored six points in his last eight games you know and the power plays clicking the goal tending for the most part has been good it’s taken a little bit of a step

Back since the turn of the year but last night was a great performance from Alex NAD delovic so the Penguins a lot of things are going well for them right now not to mention at the least knock on wood the health aspect of the game has

Gone very well for them over the last couple of weeks and the last month but I do think that there’s going to be a slight regression even if just two of those things fall off you’re not going to see a 93 in one stretch over the next

13 you’re going to see maybe it’s a a seven and five record or maybe it’s a seven- six record but what I do think is they’ve proven this season that they can play with and they can beat anybody they’ve had a handful of very impressive Victories Boston being the most recent

Of them Colorado earlier in the season shutting them out going and beating Vegas at home 3 to nothing shutting them out the Carolina Victory is a big one for them the New York Islanders victories were huge ones for them because they dominated the Islanders for

The most part in both of those games and then L we forget that big game against the LA Kings who look like they’re World beaters out there in the Western Conference the penguins have proven that they can play with anybody in the NHL it’s just a matter of stacking those

Wins and getting to the point where you can start to climb up those standings especially like we mentioned this month being a huge month against a lot of teams in the Eastern Conference they started up pretty well if they if they just would have been able to be a little

Bit better in the opening minutes against the capitals right now they’d be tied for third in the Metro instead of tied for the second wild card spot yeah it’s also you have to consider just how heading into the season I was talking with one of the uh media interns about

This after I foret which game now if you look at them at the Eastern Conference this year it still is jump ball for just about anyone consider how many teams were taking steps towards the playoffs and could have snuck into the postseason as opposed to how many uh genuinely had

No shot and the only teams that genuinely had no shot may have been the Blue Jackets and the Canadians everyone else that you know that includes the Red Wings who were supposed to take steps forward that included for at the time the Senators who were supposed to take

Steps forward and just that’s not happening yeah but that every other team the flyers are supposed to also suck but now here they are right in a very good standing yeah but also same with the capitals they were supposed to also suck but are now

You know were in the playoffs for a good amount of time same with the Islanders for the most part still not a ton of offense there but have been finding ways to win the Penguins had a lot to fight through and they still do obviously as

They are in this four-way tie with 44 points M but you know certain teams have fallen off like I mentioned the Senators have have pretty much fallen off from what they were supposed to be Blue Jackets and Canadians are just about as bad but there’s still a lot of fighting

To do so looking around the East it’s you there’s some movements that needs to be made uh the Devils have fallen off that’s kind of helpful yeah that’s and some of the biggest wins for the Penguins so far have been against the teams they couldn’t beat last year

Carolina New York Islanders yeah those are huge yeah and then you also look at the Philadelphia Flyers and the trouble that they had with them back in early December I know we talked about it earlier in the segment but man did they go out there and they just absolutely

Dominated the Flyers they made the Flyers look like what everybody expected the Flyers to look like this season which has not happened very often so you know kudos to the Pittsburgh Penguins a solid Victory last night solid standing right now we’ll see if they’re able to

Continue to build on that they have the Vancouver Canucks and the Carolina Hurricanes coming up those are two uh two very tough tasks we’ll see if the penguins are up for it we’ll see who’s in net because Alex nalovic starting seven of the last 10 games very interesting little subote there to

Monitor as time goes on but we’re going to take a quick break when we returned did Al or not Alex nander Alex nander hasn’t done anything for for the Pittsburgh Penguins did William neander provide a road map for a Pittsburgh Penguin Star Winger we’ll talk about that after the Break welcome back to the tip of the iceberg podcast brought to you as always by inside the penguin.com I’m bansky that’s horwat William neander signed a monster deal with the Toronto Maple Leafs yesterday so we’re not just going to talk about it because it’s a monster deal it was the biggest headline in

Hockey yesterday or to by the end of the day it might have been the second biggest headline or at least the second most dramatic headline as we’ll talk about a little bit here but the leaf signed William neander to an 8-year extension $92 million he gets a full no

Move Clause from the beginning meaning from now he had a modified no trade clause this season but since he signed that a little note in that contract is that no move Clause kicks in now I don’t think it’s registered on cap friendly but I thought I saw that somewhere from

I believe it was either Elliot Freedman or Jeff Merrick but uh I saw that somewhere and I think that’s an interesting little tidbit not that the Leafs were going to trade guy they just paid $92 million to in the next half season but regardless 11.5 million cap

Hit up from 6.9 million dollar the question became and we talked about this at length in our text chain yesterday did that provide the road map for Jake gensel it’s I don’t want to say provided the quote unquote road map but agents are nothing if not happy to look around

At what other players are making mhm and it may not seem like it but really neander jakee gensel are far more comfortable than you may think um I kind of ran this down in the story yesterday uh I blind tested uh my girlfriend Megan with the stats and just said here are

Two stats here are two two stat lines which one is better and she said player number one which happened to be Jake kensel so it just by you know blindly looking at a couple of numbers it was just the sort of goals points assists it was nothing too detailed or too in-depth

Um it was just the basic counting numbers and Jake gensel and while he hasn’t played as much and is two years older that is a big factor that we’ll discuss I’m sure um J Kel’s numbers are improved they’re they he have he has a slight Edge he’s got more points per

Game he has more goals period um and he’s just got a bit of a different Outlook in terms of those counting numbers that if Ben Hinson wanted to he could say hey 115 might be a bit much Toronto’s spending a lot of money on someone who might not deserve 115 that

That’s a discussion for the future but that’s a lot of money I’ve been saying this since the offseason that if uh if Jake gensel wanted to come in and start with $10 million he could absolutely ask for that oh yeah so I would say when it comes to

The J gensel contract discussion it’s going to get interesting and William neander contract may have uh played in Kel’s favor yeah and the gensel contract has been relatively quiet throughout the season it got a little noisy towards the end of last week when David pagota of the fourth period said that gensel seems

Happy waiting until after the season he wants another direction of the Pittsburgh Penguins and and I said on Iceberg to go that I completely get it I understand it one you want to get your money two that’s eight years six seven eight years is what pagota said is

Potentially what he might be looking for but like six seven eight years eight years is long time yeah for a 30-year-old which is how old Jake gensel is going to be when that contract starts next fall because he turns 30 on October 6th of next season 38-year-old Jake gensel I’m not

Sure how that would look now I know a lot of people in the comments said you could also probably just trade him towards the tail end of that once Crosby Malin and lat Tang have departed for greener pastures and and golf courses all around the world but at the same

Time I don’t know what the the the trade Clause is going to look like in that because Jake gensel as with every star player now wants that assurance that they’re not going to get traded unless they say they want to be traded yeah you saw on William neanders contract he gets

A full no move Clause are the Pittsburgh Penguins gonna give that to Jake gensel I mean they gave it in part to Brian rust they gave a modified no trade clause to Ricard Raquel what are you gonna give the guy that scored 40 goals twice for you could score 40 goals again

This season and is on Pace for a career year is a Stanley Cup champion he’s a proven playoff scorer he’s somebody that plays alongside Sydney Crosby but also I would say this and some people are still of the mind that I’m ridiculous for saying it he helps Crosby too like

Crosby helps gensel yes don’t get me wrong that happens nander gets help from tovares in in Toronto but as with both they also Aid and improve their Center and that’s tarus and that’s Crosby so you know I would think that he’s probably going to get a similar if not

At least a modified with a large list of a no trade clause and I think that is a huge thing considering William nander just got a full no move clause for eight years when he is as you mentioned yesterday the third or fourth best

Player on that team best is a best is an interesting word both of these players here’s another another little comparison between the two gensel neander are both at best the fourth you know third or fourth biggest name on their team if for gzel he might be fifth considering Eric

Carlson is here now yeah right so there’s that little aspect there when it comes to like you know skill I would say Neil Ander is better than John tovarus without doubt it’s just the fact that John tovarus is the captain of the Toronto Maple leavs that kind of gives

Him a huge boost in terms of notoriety and popularity also he’s also making 11 million so John tovaris you know jumps neander because of those two things in terms of notoriety on that roster then obviously there’s Marner and Matthews the the two one punch because I put them

In that order uh the onew punch of Matthews and Marner neander and tars can flip-flop and then in Pittsburgh it’s Crosby Mal and lat Tang boom boom boom those are the top three just why all the why Mike Sullivan says all the time that Jak gensel is one of the most

Underappreciated elite players in the league you give gensel this is the conversation that people have been having about Malin his entire career you throw Malin on his own team forget he’s an elite player he’s probably top 100 spot he’s probably this that the other MH he’s probably looked at more of one

Of the all-time greats than he is he’s just always gonna be overshadowed gel’s getting that same sort of treatment you know he’s not as good as Malin or at least as good as Malin was in his prime but he um is playing in the shadow of these three behemoths in Pittsburgh and

Maybe a fourth of Eric Carlson can wake up yeah so he’s got so like he’s definitely played through a lot but is you know proving to be still an absolutely Elite uh needed player for this team that Trey Claus will be weird I mean yeah no matter how it it I think

Ron hexall Works some magic to get Brian Russ to put the back half of his contract with nothing I think that’s I mean to be fair should Brian rust have ever gotten a full no move Clause at all probably not the guy hasn’t touched 30 goals you’re right yeah but to get him

To come back back and probably get him to come back on a discount you gave him the full no move clause for the first three why because Brian Russ just had kids let his kids at least get to the age where they’re you know coherent

Enough to be like all right you go do that that has to pack like give him that give him the early years of his kids like that that plays a factor that’s the human factor that a lot of people are like why did he get it for the first

Three years and not the last three years when he’s gonna be worse because he has kids now like he wants his kids to grow up a little bit in the same area and have a control and a handle on that so you know know the the no move Clause is

Always something that’s huge that people forget but let’s bounce back really quickly to the cap hit the salary cap is supposed to go up I don’t know if I trust Gary I don’t trust Gary bman I don’t what am I saying I don’t know I don’t trust Gary bman he said four to

Five million do potentially going up in the next summer I think it’s probably going to end up being closer to two or three just simply because that’s what usually happens when bman speaks is he over he overestimates by like 50% law talk it’s ridiculous um so they’re not

Going to get that much relief next year but is 11 A5 million you said 10 million is probably the starting point yes is a is 10 million still too much though for eight years if it ends up being eight-year contract would you Clauses be be damned trading

Potential be damned if he is 38 years old on a $10 million contract is that not a horrible look no matter who signs the deal that is yes I I don’t like the idea of eight years I will say say that you can’t restructure this is in the NFL

Yeah I don’t like the idea of eight years I’ll I’ll say that I think um I didn’t realize that that’s you know what he might be looking for um and again Pagoda just said you know if he’s going for six seven eight years that wasn’t a

Hard line he wants eight years but I think I might take six it’s a tough one million because you also have to figure I mean it’s how long does Crosby want to play for he’s going to sign a contract July 1 let’s start there how long does he want to play for

To end his career it’s this is where things are going to get weird signing gensel to six I think makes sense especially if you’re a if it’s if it seems like a movable deal toward the end or anything of that nature um could be interesting I just

The the years I don’t feel like you’re GNA play too much of a factor because gel is two years older than William neander already it is going to be that that price tag it’s going to be that annual average annual value that we look at on cap friendly every day that’s going to

Be the big swinging stick here is which what does that number look like is it you know five to six years I think is a little more respectable definitely don’t want to give him eight though because again he is 30 ending him no matter what the deal or the Clauses and everything

Looks like 38 is too hard too high yeah um it’ll be a tough one to figure out I would just say five to six I’ll take and if it’s then like I said he could start at 10 if he really wanted to here’s a deal that I want to see signed and this

Is just me personally Nick bransky saying that I would like to see this signed if this happens I’ll be I’ll be happy about it six-year deal similar to Brian Russen that the first three years are a no move clause which means he does not get moved until the end of Crosby’s

Career likely least likely last three years modified no trade give them give him 16 team let him say half the league I don’t want to go to that half the league 6 years $59 million because hockey players love that that’s $9.8 million average annual value that’s a six or a

3.8 million doll raise and I think that’s fair and that’s and because you want to know where that money comes from from Jeff Carter coming off the books yep don’t have to worry about don’t have to worry about the what I was thinking yeah you don’t have to worry about the

Cap going up or not going up if it goes up and you have Jake gensel locked up to 9 something boom already made great progress because that you just transfer that money from one player to another and then that free that’s free cap space yeah eventually soon enough the uh Jeff

Petri contract will leave us and eventually the Jack Johnson contract will leave us those that’s a couple extra million dollars right there again that’s a few years down the line but it is more positives to I mean the rebuilds coming but suddenly we’re gonna yeah but suddenly the penguins are going to have

A little bit more money to work with a little more space mhm and you know tacking those two off the dead cap also helps yeah the rebuild is coming at some point I would imagine it’s not this year it’s not it’s not going to be next year

It’s not and it might not be the year after that that’s two of the three years that you have the no move contract for Jake gensel then you have one year to deal with it and then all of a sudden it opens up and you can say all right G

Where do you want to go because this is going to be a rebuild yeah yeah you know it’s those are conversations you’re going to have to have with them because especially considering if he’s If part of the reason why he’s willing to wait is to know what the future looks like

It’s Kyle dubis might just have to be blunt Hey listen we’re gonna be in a rebuild soon he but Kyle dubis is the kind of competitor and also it’s his job to have a team that wins now and in the future you could probably come to gensel

And say hey we’re trying to also win in the future you will be a part of it yeah he would but yeah yeah that’s why we’re not lawyers because if we were lawyers we I wouldn’t be wearing just a T-shirt and a hat I’d be wearing a suit like my

Favorite show but no with with Jake gensel at the end of the day you look at the comparables between him and neander they’re close they are I mean gensel has 458 points in his career neander has 484 but nander also started in 20156 whereas gensel came in the year following but

Gensel has 215 goals ne’s 198 GW has more points in the playoffs not to mention a Stanley Cup ring which you know it’s a team accomplishment but it’s certainly a team accomplishment that Ben hinson’s going to be like Hey Jake can we show me your your right hand right

Now yeah that’s a Stanley Cup ring Kyle I know you don’t know what that looks like yet but that’s a Stanley Cup ring and that’s that’s what you want to get so I mean he led that postseason in goals too did he not as a rookie yeah so

As a rookie he almost set the record I think he what was just shy of Dino cicerelli or somebody like that that so ridiculous it was a long that was seven years ago that’s a long time but um at the end of the day man it’s a it’s going

To be an interesting conversation whenever we start to see what the the contract negotiations look like whenever those details start coming out but the road map might kind of be there from Willie neander but again two years separated and I think that’s also the fact that the Toronto Maple Leafs are in

A much different position when it comes to their contention window than the Pittsburgh Penguins are for sure for sure they’re able to pay their young guys that kind of money um for what it’s worth John tovaris will probably take a big old pay cut in a couple Seasons to

Help adjust for inflation over there um it’s Toronto’s also just in a different just in a different Stratosphere when it comes to being able to spend that money um they can do that their lineup next year is going to look damn weird here are five1 million doll players and a

Bunch of League men guys see how that goes for them but at the same time I mean this is going to be a fun story to follow along with all season the if Ben Hinson continues to go on you know radio show saying things could get ugly if you

Know if anyone keeps asking Jake gensel what his thoughts are and everything this is gonna be a fun story to follow along with all season and you know we’re discussing the Penguins you know in the midst of a 93 and one run the wheels fall off that trade deadline is going to

Get interesting here yeah the penguins are already going to be one of the most interesting teams to follow nearing the deadline and into the off season if if things do fall off you know you said that the rebuild isn’t coming for another two to three years potentially these wheels

Fall off it’s happening this summer once this snow melts things are hitting the road yeah when you look at the Pittsburgh Penguins man uh it’s a very very I mean there’s a reason that gel’s waiting it’s very precarious position when it comes to we’re going to go for

It versus we’re going to try to rebuild I mean hey you trade Jake gensel when’s the last time the Penguins had two first round picks it’s been a long time the most seasons they don’t have a first round pick uh they wouldn’t have a first- round pick this year anyway they

Traded it away for Eric Carlson get it back though you might be able to get two H not in the same draft but you know at the end of the day they’d have two probably next season but Jake gensel certainly going to be something to monitor as he continues a career season

As of right now 44 points in 38 games 18 goals 26 assists so could potentially if he picks up the pace in the second half of the Season could potentially be his third 40G goal season of his career at 29 years of age kids a stud yeah kids a

Stud he doesn’t get the credit he deserves and we’ll see uh just how much credit the Penguins want to give him when his contract negotiations come back around but we’re going to take a quick break when we come back Riley Smith was demoted in the Penguins lineup we’ll

Discuss that and cutter goer said nah I don’t want to play for the Philadelphia Flyers he was traded last night mid game against his childhood favorite team the Pittsburgh Penguins we’ll discuss that as well to close out this episode of the tip of the iceberg we’ll be right Back welcome back to the tip of the iceberg podcast brought to you as always by inside theep penguin.com a couple of lineup changes take place yesterday before the Pittsburgh Penguins shellac the Philadelphia Flyers by final score 4 to1 at Wells Fargo Center sting those philadelphians home very displeased the

Last two players to walk into Philadelphia sports complexes with a Sydney Crosby Jersey have had some pretty good success shout out to Kyler Murray and the Arizona Cardinals on that one but Riley Smith went into Philadelphia with a little bit of a sour taste in his mouth simply because he was

Demoted to the third line I mean it’s rightfully so considering he had scored two goals in his previous 28 games dating back to the San Jose Sharks game where he scored Four Points so since then he just has not performed well nine points in that time span as well he

Moves down to the third line with Lars Eller and valter Pon and Drew o’ Conor bumps up in the lineup to play with evi Malin and Brian Russ what did you think of the move before we get into what we saw last night it’s a move that made sense

It’s we’re seeing Riley Smith in this complete that um we don’t really know how he’s going to be able to get out of it we don’t know what kind of changes need to be made in his game what needs to happen for him to kind of find some Rhythm two

Goals in 28 games is horrid especially whenever you’re playing primarily on the second line with of gny Malin that’s the key of why I think this you know demotion was necessary because he’s been playing all this time with aghy Malin who has also been you know flimsy he’s

Been up up and down in terms of uh production just not going to work it seems so they it just makes sense to move Riley Smith off of that line give malan a guy like dreo Connor who’s just been a lightning bolt for malan um and

See if or or if lar Eller if if lar Eller can help wake up Riley Smith in a way um it’s it’s the same way we looked at Ricardo Raquel at the beginning of the season does putting him on the first line help things or is that just going

To break up the chemistry that you know rust Crosby and gensel had or does moving Raquel to the third line Spurs something turns out an injury spurred it but still uh we got Rael back he’s on the first line he’s cooking maybe this is the kind of thing that we’re just

Seeing it in practice now we’re seeing Riley Smith moved to the third line maybe something picks up uh I guess not phenomenal results in the first game considering no one on that line scored really did anything much of note I mean they looked pretty good I I thought they

Looked decent in that G but also the the Pittsburgh Penguins just looked good last night in general I I mean the Eller Poon in Riley Smith line when it comes to underlying numbers were the second best line on the Pittsburgh Penguins last night 68% of the shot attempts or

Sorry 68% of the expected goals 47% of the shot attempts and they they really didn’t have too much ice time they had more than a lot of other lines on the team because there was a lot of penalties taken last night but five on five ice time not a lot of opportunities

For for Pon and Eller and also Riley Smith but you know I thought they performed well and Mike Sullivan echoed that sentiment last night he said he thought they looked good it was a good first showing for that line and obviously you’re going to have to see

Them build off of it we talked about the two big games coming up over the weekend but you look at what he was able to do last night and you just kind of take and say okay it looked better but you still need more F Terry Pon in is starting to

To kind of take a step back a little bit his opportunities are getting lesser and lesser he’s having to do something in that role as well which is make something out of less and if you can do that that’s how you stay at the NHL

Level he has to do that now with Riley Smith who’s coming down and looking to find his game as well so lar Zeller has just been the punching bag this season he’s been given a lot of assignments with with Lin mates that are hey you guys are are trying to figure it out

Lars help them like that’s the veteran move that’s the veteran role and that’s what lar Zeller has done this year so it’ll be uh something to monitor whether or not Riley Smith can get back to his game I would assume at some point he does he’s just historically been a much

Better player you wouldn’t think that that would continue for an entire season but I mean I said it last night it’s kind of like a Jason zooker thing inconsistencies like you expect it to get better but it’s inconsistent and what was what was our big uh point of note when we

Acquired he’s Jason Zucker but more consistent yeah he’s just Jason Zucker now without theity at least he’s healthy yes he is healthy for he is healthy right now he’s healthy and killing penalties we got a couple of bonuses there I guess yeah but you know still it’s going to be an

Interesting it’s gonna be interesting to see how he grows on that third line see if he’s able to refine that game what I want to know is if plopping R Smith on this third line it seems to have already done that gives valter Pon another you know another boost back into

The L back in onto the ice at a little bit more of a regular basis I mean up until last night it seemed every game was a just a decline ice time a decline and ice time a de five minutes against yeah uh Buffalo Sabers back up to 10 so

Maybe that maybe that gets him on the ice a little more he’s got to you bring his confidence back and become a legitimate NHL regular uh what Mike Sullivan said on you know the young guys playing in the NHL seemed to it was a really good quote there I forget what

Exactly it was but it was essentially when they break in you know there’s a lot of energy they’re kind of you know up on adrenaline uh and then after a couple of games it’s they start to feel the Motions they start to go through the motions of the NHL this that

The other it kind of Fades for valter Pon it’s about breaking through that fade now about that breaking through all that for Riley Smith it’s about breaking through and just finding some regularity here getting some progress made in the right direction uh everyone knows he can

Do it everyone knows he can do it he’s a good player it’s just it’s like Ricardo cell need to find something to make things start a new yeah yeah and in his place was Drew o Conor who has found a new this season and looked very very

Good doing so uh he moves up in his place he has six points in his last eight games three goals three assists and last night he had that sweet assist to of M and that ended up being the dagger for the Pittsburgh Penguins against the Philadelphia Flyers nice to

See him really prove me wrong because you know I was pretty harsh on him Christmas week and then the FES of his game he looked really good against Ottawa and he hasn’t looked back since he’s had a bundle of energy every single game he has made a difference in two

Games where it was him that made the difference for the Penguins I’m talking about the first period against Boston where he was absolutely phenomenal and the third period last night was that as well he he gets one assist but you look at what he was able to do and setting

The tone early in that third period penguins are up three to one Philly’s going to have a push it’s a torella team they’re going to have a push early in that third period but instead Drew o’ Conor picks the pocket of a flyers defenseman goes in on a partial breakway

He does get Stoned by Carter Hart but he starts to put the the thought in the mind of the Flyers that man we’re not coming back in this game because this guy is up two goals and he’s still a dog on a bone he was able to do that and

Then shortly after that draws people to him because of the danger that he presented a couple minutes prior in the third period draws people to him and just lays it off to Ay Malin who who takes care of the rest a stellar performance from him in the third period

Last night and really a stellar performance from him since December 23rd Drew o Conor has been a big reason is to why the Pittsburgh Penguins have been as successful as they have been over the last couple of weeks yeah he’s been awesome he he’s been totally awesome I

Know we didn’t expect him to be a I don’t want to say useful but to be a regular face in the top six yeah he seems to be earning his way there and regressions from certain players is also helping that along there Riley Smith has regressed but there’s just been there

Have been a couple of key regressions across this lineup that’s not ideal yeah um but for J Conor this is a good little boost that no one expected but it’s you know really something to see and it’s really worth he’s playing with that confidence he’s playing with so much

Speed and um using his size and his stature to really make a difference for himself on the ice and in the lineup this um this is the kind of thing we expected to see out of you know Sam Pand for a bit last year when he came up just valter pus and

Now has been taking advantage in his own way this is the sort of once you’re up here you got to find ways to make your game noticeable and Drew o Conor’s doing just that yeah there’s a difference between speed and fluidity speed Jansen Harkin has speed fluidity Drew o’ Conor

Is playing with fluidity right now and that makes your game faster it’s not all about foot speed at that point it’s about how your game is progressing and right now Drew o Conor’s game is progressing really well and we talked about it at the beginning of the Season

We said all right the penguins have a great top six they have an improved bottom six or at least expected to have an improved bottom six but we said there was a gap there if somebody goes down it’s going to be hard for somebody to be

That swing Winger Drew Conor has kind of bridged that Gap he is the swing Winger for the Pittsburgh Penguins that middle six that can play on the second line or play on the third line or even for a time being he can play on the first line

If you need him to he’s certainly been much better this season and I’m intrigued to see if he can continue to keep that up let’s talk to end this show a little bit about the team East because it’s involving their top prospect who just happened to grow up a Pittsburgh

Penguins fan a big fan of Sydney Crosby he said at the NHL draft that he shot pucks into the dryer as well that was based on Sydney Crosby doing it he said that’s how I’m going to become an NHL he’s certainly done a good job to this point cutter gotier was the fifth

Overall pick in the 2022 draft from the Philadelphia Flyers last night mid game Mid First Period I should say he is traded to the Anaheim Ducks for a second round pick and defenseman Jamie Dale when I saw this go across and the Ducks were the ones to announce it which tells

You how quiet they kept it because it wasn’t Elliot fredman it wasn’t Chris Johnston it wasn’t Bob McKenzie who’s not breaking trades anymore but you know World Juniors he was over there might have talked to Cutter gotier instead cutter goate trade gets announced by the Anaheim Ducks and

Everybody just went wait what like is this real because not only is cutter gotier a very high-end Prospect he was the top prospect for theil Philadelphia Flyers like I said fifth overall pick led the world juniors in scoring last week and he was named the best forward

In the tournament he gets traded for a second round pick and Jamie Dale who if he can stay healthy is a very good defenseman so it could be a good trade for the Philadelphia Flyers but certainly not a good look whenever the fifth overall pick from two seasons ago

Simply says I don’t want to be a Philadelphia Flyer yeah it’s it I know it was it’s kind of working in the opposite direction but um and I also don’t think it’s to the point of there’s going to be comparisons to Eric lindross but it kind of gives

That Vibe of well he doesn’t want to play for that team this one kind of comes a little bit later the Eric Lind situation it was immediate it was hey don’t draft me oh we’re drafting you anyway but a little different but it involves the Flyers and a player that

Didn’t want to play on the team they were drafted by what’s really interesting about this is um all the details that have come out after like The Insider saying that um they just couldn’t get a hold of him for however many months or days or whatever it may

Have been they just couldn’t get a hold of him he he wasn’t communicating maybe there was no Communications with the agent either there’s a lot going into that it’s not 1776 you’re not sending a carrier pigeon what what’s going on that you couldn’t get a hold of cutter gotier yeah and not

Only that there was the note I forget which which one had it but one of them said that this has been a deal that Danny Brier has been working on for months yeah which makes me also really start to think oh so they’ve been working on this for months they went

Into the like we mentioned the Flyers went into the season not expecting to be that great they were maybe they tried to send him off before then they went and with the Ducks being the other end of this maybe Danny Brier had was a little spiteful and just went all right you

Think we’re bad have fun in Anaheim have fun in Anaheim I’m sure he will with Trevor zeris you’re gonna play with young Talent yeah but you’re not going to win and not only that now the what look what the Flyers are doing not only did we don’t we also don’t know the

Reason why he didn’t want to play there yeah actual reason yeah we don’t know the actual reason there are the he was a Sydney Crosby and Penguins fans growing up listen you get to play in the NHL you kick those out the door yeah usually um

But for whatever reason it may be if if there was a little maybe it was because the team wasn’t good and didn’t seem to be going in the right direction and maybe CER goer understood that and said he wanted to go somewhere else or maybe just you know all that all right here

Have have Anaheim because they’re so good and now what look what the Flyers are doing they’re almost playing out of spite for the prospect it seems there’s all kind of things I could go into this that’s just the way my mind worked of oh now the Flyers are playing really good

In spite of their top prospects saying they’re not good or alluding to them being good yeah yeah so in in my eyes i’ say good on Philly that’s a good move right there if if your prospect doesn’t want to play for you and if maybe the reason is because you’re not good send

Him to a worse team and pop off that’s a win for for Philly yeah there there’s two things on this one one when Danny Brier spoke yesterday I think it was in an intermission report he spoke about this trade he said we thought maybe cutter would come around and it ended up

That he he he didn’t because he did he said he did come around at one point because at the draft he said I’m built to be a Philadelphia Flyer and then a couple months later he went awall so if before the draft you knew that he had reservation about being a Philadelphia

Flyer why are you using the fifth overall pick to select him that’s my question now again usually prospects don’t have that kind of weight in negotiations of I’m just not going to play that’s a very non-typical way to handle a situation to getting drafted to

A team that you might not think is the best situation for yourself so I understand it at that point but with the fifth overall pick cutter goer is a tremendous Talent would you not want to take more of a sure thing but again maybe that’s the Flyers maybe that’s just the Flyers

Motto right now is we take Talent we fix everything else later they took mve mitkov in the first round last year that is a complicated situation in and of itself but a tremendously talented player so maybe that’s just the way that they roll but at the end of the day also

I do give Danny Brier credit because he’s the only one in that organization that handled that with class um certainly not their TV certainly not their their intermission report I watched that last night he said during that interview we kept it very quiet and I want to thank the other teams we

Negotiated with for keeping it quiet because we wanted to protect the player he knows what Market he’s the general manager for yeah he doesn’t want this 19yearold to become I mean he’s already gonna be now at this point he’s going to be one of the most hated players to

Philadelphia Flyers fans but leading up to this if he would have changed his mind and people would have known that he never would have been able to find success with the Philadelphia Flyers so Danny Brier keeps this quiet to protect the 19-year-old the second it comes out the television broadcast roast him I

Think it was Brian bue and whoever their play-by-play guy is Scotty hartell goes after him in the intermission report or the postgame report some other I don’t know who was with him my apologies some other guy went in on him and said this is one of the best organizations in the

NHL which is to me slightly laughable um simply just because of the the the the winning has not been there for four years but at the end of the day this is a 19-year-old and the reason your general manager is saying that he kept it quiet is because of you because of

The players that used to play there that are going out there and they’re cutting down a 19-year-old yeah I think cutter go could have probably handled it better could have you know been a Philadelphia Flyer gone through it and and been an NH and then built up some steam and then

Requested a trade or just not sign his contract just not sign the next contract and go somewhere else or say hey I I can’t came and played gave it a shot but I’m a restricted free agent I would like to not be qualified like at the end of the day I I couldn’t

Believe the the reaction from the television announcers from the Philadelphia Flyers they went in on a 19-year-old you got how about more than just the you know the TV analysts and the broadcasters did you see what uh torella said yeah torella didn’t care I mean that was a torella thing I mean

That’s what he said he said I I I don’t I don’t know him from Adam um but I I do know Jamie Dale talk about Jamie Dale because he’s coming to play for us but yeah but I mean you have to figure first of all Tor there’s no way you didn’t

Know one of your top prospects just we’re just going to say that let’s just be honest here there’s no Heen I get that he wants to only talk about the new guy and not worry about that’s thing yeah but with Tor having that sort of reaction that really makes you wonder

What how dark and dirty did this situation get because yeah even torella would have to be a little classy with their top with one of their top prospects right at least a little wish things could have worked out better this that no he went straight and maybe it

Was also coming off of a loss but he went straight for the for the jugular with don’t know don’t know who he is yeah that seems unlikely and if you and honestly torus if you don’t know who your top prospect is what are you doing

Here yeah I mean so that’s that but also that adds more fuel to the like you mentioned all these guys tearing down this 19-year-old I mean with toward saying that all I can think is let’s somehow find a way to get cutter go to the Penguins and really start something

Here let’s really get this going yeah cutter goate leads the the next wave of contention for the Pittsburgh Penguins he hit that trade market all I’m saying I don’t I don’t think the Ducks would would send the Penguins cutter goate not to mention ducks are not buying at the

Trade deadline uh not a chance in hell but you know interesting situation obviously we wish cutter goate the the best um we also I wish Jamie Dale the best Jamie Dale is a very talented defense so it’ll be interesting to see what he’s able to do I believe it was torella in

That same breath said or maybe it was Danny Brier uh that he’s gonna have to come and play a little bit of a different style because Anaheim has a much different style than Philadelphia which that’s the understatement of the century so I’m I’m intrigued to see what Jamie Dell can do pure offensive

Defenseman uh very talented young player for the Anaheim Ducks but I mean they got pavl mikov right now so they didn’t need him um we’ll see how that trade shakes out but uh from a third- party perspective I can see why they kept it quiet that’s all I’m

Saying for sure it’s it’ll be fun to watch how that unfolds through on both sides you know through the Flyers perspective through the Ducks perspective um see how things unfold and I mean where’s cter go playing now I know he just came off of world juniors

But what like play I think he plays the United States national development program but let me double check yeah because um if anyone’s able ble to you know get in touch with him and see if he’s got any quotes or words to say about the situation this this is just

Going to be a interesting little uh little story to follow along with just in terms of being a hockey fan okay he’s he was with the United States national development team a couple of Seasons but right now he plays at Boston College okay Boston College newspapers

About to get on that one what is it the eagle idea I don’t know why I know that but I think it’s called The Eagle love it um but regardless uh we’ll see if cutter go speaks and when he does I’m sure Philadelphia will be livid but

That’s going to do it for this episode of the tip of the iceberg a little bit different talking a little bit more about Toronto a little bit about Philadelphia but certainly covered a lot of penguins uh Penguins discussions not problems they’re 93 and one in their

Last 13 games not a lot of problems to be had there but we will be back on Thursday with a new episode leading up to the game against the Vancouver Canucks until then we’ll see you later and thank you so much for tuning in to the tip of the iceberg N