The REAL Reason the LIV & PGA TOUR Deal Isn’t Happening

The deadline for the PGA TOUR and LIV Golf merger deal has passed and we’re still not any closer to the two rival golf leagues coming together…but why?

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After continuing to drive home the message of just How firm this deadline was for the PGA Tour and the pif to solidify their framework agreement it’s a bit surprising at just how easily it seemed to have been pushed off in a 11th Hour memo sent out by Jay from the PGA

Tour ex effectively extending this deadline and there’s some wording in that memo which we’re going to get to in just a second which I think is quite interesting and kind of shed some additional light on why this deal is just not seeming to be solidified but

We’ve got also a lot of frustration that we’ve got to address that we’re seeing from fans and there’s one tweet I want to bring up uh Phil Mickelson even responded to it in a way of his own special fill way of trying to calm the waters down a little bit but I think

It’s the same frustration that’s being expressed by a lot of us we’re going to get to that in a second too uh but Mike one thing we’ve got to chat about we’re going to dig into what we truly believe are some of the real reasons why this is not getting

Done cuz I can only say that it had to have been a significant reason for it to not happen after how much again like we kept hearing that the the deadline was so very firm so it just tells us there’s more under this than we think oh yeah

And I got like my my foil hat conspiracy idea too I want to run by with you because I just think there it’s a mess and I think there’s a lot of things going on and I’m seeing it all over Twitter and there’s some new idea surfacing of people what think are

Happening and I kind of agree yeah well you could be more right about like conspiracy theories abound and I think that’s been a problem from the start with this was has been the true lack of communication you know and that’s one area where we’ve heard calls for new

Leadership and when you have such little communication what you get is a lot of speculation but first let’s go to this tweet um because again we’re getting like information from the players involved in drips and drabs and some of it comes directly from tweets responses even comments we’ve seen

Um so this one we saw a tweet uh Joe Pompano he says the PGA merger talks uh being extended is a bummer for golf he said many fans are just exhausted by the whole experience they’ve stopped following updates they aren’t excited about any PGA or Live Events and plan on

Only watching the majors uh that’s a quick way to eliminate the Casual fan I’ve heard it been I’ve heard it said you know people just frustrated like I don’t even want to watch golf anymore I’ll just watch the majors I think the perfect word he used in there was

Exhausted and I think there’s definitely a degree of of headline fatigue and news fatigue in general with these constant like where it seems like we’re going to have some information come out and again lack of communication the information just doesn’t come so you guys first of

All weighing in the comments as we dive into this conversation let us know are are you still equally as interested in the updates as you were when this first happened or do you feel like like you kind of agree with Joe’s tweet here where it’s a little bit of exhaustion

That’s coming out dude what do what do you think they’re all fighting about who’s that like all these people what do you think this is all about money right well told yeah and it’s their money it’s not our money right so that’s why we’re kind of exhausted at this point it’s not

But but for me what I want to know mainly is um who’s in who’s out are they playing in Majors what’s it going to look like are they going to be on TV can I watch live is PJ tour going to be on the same that’s the questions right and

That’s the exhausting part and and where I do agree is that we are again we’ve said this before here on the podcast we’re the kind of the DI hards who are watching every day I mean we do an entire podcast about golf of course we’re going to be in it where I again

Worry is the Casual viewer because I can see how this can put people off I can see how it could bring some in because some people they enjoy and they crave that drama and it’s it’s look we’ve had things like the Netflix series that have just really thrived on the drama right

So there’s going to be some people going to be pulled in but I think there’s going to be a lot of people who are going to be kind kind of put off by this in a large way I think that’s what it needs to be resolved I mean we did a

Whole podcast uh recently on talking about the golf ball roll back and I said I I felt the similar thing I felt it was it was not so much the DI hard so much as the Casual players the Casual fans are going to see this and just be put

Off by the idea of the golf ball being slowed down but that I digress again it’s just the idea of this bigger picture but let’s get back to what Phil said so Phil Michelson jumps in responds he says Joe I understand what you’re saying however when it’s all said and

Done the average fan will see all the best players compete against each other way more often than before and throughout the world sponsors will know what it what it uh what it is they are buying and everyone will end up ahead let’s all be patient so Phil is labeling

Live it’s going to be this International product soon that everyone’s going to be able to watch well it’s interesting you say that because your mind went where my mind went when you heard him say throughout the the world right to me that’s you saw we looked at the Liv

Schedule for next year Liv is very much more of I would call an international league right where they play more so than the PG tour being a largely domestic League here right to me that wording if you break it apart almost feels like like Phil is almost saying like the

Best player is going to be absorbed into live is what it seems like right but to me this just adds more confusion to the entire thing totally I’m confused than ever right and and and you have to break apart cuz Phil has from the start he’s been kind of the biggest cheerleader for

Live obviously so you know he’s going to come out with a statement somewhat like this but does it really shed any light on whether or not the deal is going to get done because to me that wording I remember the framework as it stands is largely this new PGA Tour Le Enterprise

That’s going to be developed to me this doesn’t seem like it’s more light on that so you can take Phil’s comments however you want and let us know what you guys think about him in the comments but more so I think is like I I got more out of this guy Joe’s tweet

Than I got out of Phil’s tweet because I felt like more so he’s kind of starting to voice the frustration that so many of us truly have exactly which is whether or not this deal is going to happen uh and I and I would imagine too that it’s

Not just us I imagine the players are exhausted too uh we even saw here’s a guy like recently just again there’s a lot of news that happened kind of over the holiday break that I think would have been a lot louder had they not happened during the holidays radar but

You had um and I’m going to paraphrase here because I don’t have the exact quote in front of me but you had Patrick Klay once again approached asked if he was going to go to live and he shut the rumors down in what I would say was

Probably the most uh direct way that I’ve seen from a lot of players I’ve seen a lot of players kind of float around it say it in one way but kind of leave that door open so they could make that change in the future and after ROM

Shook everything up we all thought well any at this point anybody could go but you look at his wording and he was just like Bas you know very basically like set it’s set in stone but you got to think a lot of these players have to be

Saying look you know I’m exhausted too we’re all exhausted by this so it leaves me wondering like what would be the reason to not just rip the Band-Aid off get this over with tell us the deal either happening or it’s not rather than doing this another deadline pushed out

And now using the target date which is funny of the Masters I know it’s just I just don’t think they I think there’s some type of stalemate with something right and I have my theory well I’ll tell you what why don’t you uh man kick it off let’s Dive Right into your theory

Now and and see what you think because like like I said we’ve we’ve all got some yeah reasons were surmising I mean this is how I look at it there are guys who left there are guys who stayed St there since the start of this whole live

Thing very from the very start everyone fans you name it has said what about the guys who have stayed you know loyalty right when is their loyalty and then I think there were times where they said don’t worry your loyalty will be rewarded it will be rewarded so similar

To how these guys are taking checks Rah got a huge deal he has to be there till 2029 maybe they want something to like a retain retaining bonus keep me here till 2029 I will pledge my loyalty to the PGA Tour I will talk negatively against Liv

Or de promote it or whatever you want to call it words I’m making up and um and I’ll do that for you know $50 million you know upfront check and I’ll do that for you guys I will be I will be your Scotty Sheffer I’ll be your Justin

Thomas but you know you got to keep me so then they go to these Fenway groups and they’re in the part of these negotiations and guys this is me just purely speculating here like saying part of the money we need is for these bonuses to keep these guys here because

I I got to think they want to be rewarded for this loyalty it’s one thing to say like I’m pledging allegiance to PJ tour they’re the greatest in the world $200 $300 million thanks but no thanks right well let me ask you this the PGA Tour has already basically said

And a big part of it this has come from the players and since and Tiger’s been a big proponent in this since he joined the players Advisory board has been that the players need more of an ownership stake in the PGA Tour maybe that’s how

They’ll get that bonus let me ask you do you do you do you think that’s the same thing do you think that that’s gets it done or do you feel that these guys need check cut to them I think it’s both believe it or not I think it’s both I

Think it’s like um I need something for the the the the money lost time lost money of what I would have had a year ago I mean look at the kkas you know they got very wealthy over the last year and they changed their life right right

Let’s say the Kea Mr Mrs kka because whatever uh but uh um I think it’s both because I think people get really Wealthy on Equity I mean The Upfront bonus is really nothing to them it’s just whatever cuz a lot of these guys who were get the bonus don’t need 20

Million it’s sad to say but they don’t need it but I think it’s the equity of them potentially 10 years from now Generations from now having a percentage ownership of something that could be worth a you know billions if not maybe more right right you know in this new

Framework that’s my thought yeah and look we’ve seen like I said we’ve seen the push from the players of saying that they want that equity share they want all that type of stuff um but then the push back that I would have and the question I would have is like let’s say

It was a guy like Klay he’s on the player Advisory Board he’s got a voice he’s directly in putting into whether this deal gets done or not if it is money he’s after and that’s holding up the deal then why would he not just take the live deal money and

Just go there because I I just again I think it’s just pledging loyalty like they’re the evil empire I don’t want to talk bad about them and then go there I don’t want to have that look you know what I mean like I am a PGA Tour player

They are the cream of the crop they’re the best but because I am here and because I remained loyal to you I want to be rewarded and this is not enough loyalty so we’re not in agreement that’s what I think so you’re saying that there their preference would be to stay for

The PGA Tour but money is still a factor and they want they’re just not quite making enough money yeah is what you’re saying look I mean it’s hard guaranteed money I heard was another rumor that they wanted which would be the opposite of of having Equity into the group right

Type of thing um true the the the issue that I have is that I think and it’s been brought up you’re certainly not the first person to surmise that it it’s becoming a thing where like basically it’s it’s pay to play like in you know where these guys are going to be paid

Upfront money the issue that I have to a certain extent with that is that and I think some light of this was shown on and whether you believe this or not you guys can weigh in the comments on this too but just before the holiday break you had Shane Lowry basically call out

And say that live now owns uh John ROM and he what he said was the comments that you’re seeing from Rah the shift in his verbage about Liv in general sounding a little bit like regurgitated PR is because now that he is compensated directly for being in the

League they then own him and but doesn’t anyone well that’s the thing like I didn’t the Yankees own A-Rod when they gave him $300 million back in whatever you know what I mean yes so no matter what if you sign a contract and get paid

A lot of money I don’t care who or where you’re owned but then I guess what that comes down to for me is whether we believe that golf like a lot of other sports out there and I’m not saying that I there’s a right or wrong answer to

This I want to see what people think should golf be a contract sport you know golf in the past was always you know now teams right but in the past what it was was you entered into events and you took home a paycheck based on your performance alone right

Right there was no longer you were just paid to be there Liv kind of introduced that if the PGA Tour then matches that and you start to be basically on one of the two teams at that point yeah and you’re being paid for that my concern is what would that do overall to

Competition I think you first and foremost well a lot of people have said that that’s been the reason that they feel that live is not as comp they again speculative different people feel believe different things but I’ve heard the the the you know it’s said commonly that some people are saying these guys

Aren’t as motivated to do well they’re they’re paid just whether they show just to show up yeah I know It’s Tricky I see what you’re saying It’s Tricky but if if they got it right and they got had a way where they were contracted players and they earned money but they also earned

More based on performance I would say the closest thing we’ve had to that are when the PGA Tour puts up no cut events where the cream of the crop are in the field and they’re taking home a paycheck no matter what happens out there right that’s kind of the closest thing we’ve

Had to it but I do think that it might we might be getting into a little bit of a slippery slope if you’ve got on both sides of the coin where now you’re getting paid to be one place or the other I I have to maybe this is just me

Just holding out hope for this but I would hope that there are some guys that it is truly more important than money they they realize they’re already making a lot of money we’re talking about the the top top Echelon of the best golfers the guys are on the player board stuff

Like that these are guys who are taking home 10 plus million dollars a year in earnings and you know even more in sponsorship figure n worth I’m sure they are all doing fine yeah I got a hope that this some of the hold out is over something else over maybe they’re

Holding out for more communication maybe it’s something like that that’s what I would hope let’s just stop right there real quick let’s do a quick word from our sponsors come back and I want to tell you what what I think is is probably the biggest driver of what’s

Holding up this deal and I think it’s even more so than on an individual basis I think this is comes really down to entities as a whole so let’s do a work from our sponsors we’ll come right back to that all right it’s January it is freezing but thermos series from FootJoy

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My kind of my own Theory I think of what what’s holding this up and what one thing that I I think that’s has to be said is that there’s been a lot of changes to the entire landscape of this deal since it was first announced both tours are arguably in a much different

Position of where they were then right now as we look at this deal in general it was originally structured largely on the PGA tour being in the stronger position Liv at the time was scooping up some big names no doubt applying the pressure but the PGA Tour

Was still in the what I would say call more inferior position of having more players having official world golf rankings points all those types of things having broadcast deals having a lot of things that Liv was after at the time so the way that this was largely proposed was that under this framework

Agreement the PGA Tour would form this new entity but the PGA Tour would take the lead in that entity and guys who are you know in charge now guys like Jay would continue to to call the shots they would largely like I said be in that power position of power whether you call

It PGA Tour Enterprises or whatever the new four profit name was going to be I think what happened though is you had a situation where Liv has slowly but steadily increased its leverage increased its position through a taking on more names more desirable names and pulling them from the PGA Tour and B

Slowly working their way into more broadcast deals starting to get their product out there in front of you know more uh you know more eyeballs things like that and I think that even when the original framework agreement was set there was a lot of speculation whether Liv would even survive right yeah right

So now as Liv and I think one of their last kind of nail in the coffin type of moment was when they they scooped up John ROM right you know just a couple weeks ago right before the deadline was approaching to put that last bit of

Leverage on so I look at this from the PJ tour standpoint and and live standpoint I’m thinking live what would be their incentive at the at the position that they’re in now where they’ve gotten to a point of pretty strong position yeah they’re still don’t get me wrong they

Don’t have all the cards no they they still don’t have world rankings they still have some issues there right but why would they what would be the smart business move for them to pay something in the order of two billion dollars only to effectively become absorbed and

Become like a suble league of the PGA they after right yeah and I think that that’s a large part of the holdup and I think as Liv largely started feel like we don’t need you as much as you think we need you and as inside the players a

Lot of the players gave the push back you saw like a guy like Rory who said he would retire before he played anything having to do with under a live flag right MH as you had that pressure I think the PGA Tour started to rush to find other

Sponsors to bring in y and I think the wording that was in this Memo from J Monahan is very interesting so this is that memo we talked about earlier that came out right you know at almost at the stroke of midnight on the last day of

The deal New Year’s Eve and I think the very first line sheds a lot of light on how much the PGA Tour is now trying to downplay live cuz they said I the the memo starts off by saying I wanted to provide an update on our negotiations with strategic Sports Group the public

Investment fund and the DP World Tour from the get this was not a deal with strategic Sports Group this was not a framework agreement with them it was a framework agreement with the PF right and now here the narrative is attempting to be changed to saying it’s like no

It’s now it’s a just a big agreement amongst a lot of people yeah right and I get it more moving parts means it’s more to do with the agreement it’s it’s going to slow things down but I continue to see verbage and wording and an emphasis

That just seems like the PGA Tour is just trying to continue to push live back into this smaller stakeholder and Liv is probably thinking we’re only getting bigger don’t make us smaller right further on the memo um they they this is kind of interesting the wording used he said our goal for

2024 is to reach agreements with the SSG the PF and the DP World Tour bringing them on board as minority co-investors in PGA Tour Enterprises to me right yeah and and I’m not saying like I said I I agree with it I’m not saying that as far as what

What’s the right and wrong business decision to do here but I’m just saying just taking like basic Elementary business M if I’m trying to put up that much money or whatever it may be and my position’s only getting stronger as Liv has been getting why

Would they want to be put into such a smaller category of a minority con Vestor lumped in with others I think that’s largely what’s holding this up I think that the PGA tour’s continual desire to make live seem less significant than they are and lives continual desire to feel possi more

Significant than they are is butting heads a little bit too much could be very well and causing a lot of Wheels to grind to a Hal yeah that’s wild to think of like that right and let me ask you this take it one step further does live

The people who back live the money that backs live is there an endless amount to the point where they can literally put the PJ tour out of business can they just endlessly buy every player billions upon billions to say let’s just get rid of the PGA Tour and become and just

Control golf worldwide I my answer to this would be twofold one I think monetarily I think they physically could but long game Los think what it comes down to is there are certain players who cannot be bought they quit I.E Tiger Woods things like that and we never see

Him again then that would be the Fallout of it yes what I what I do think is I do think that that the PF probably does have what we would consider are unlimited Deep Pockets that they could continue to pour money in however I also I also think that they’re they’re not

Stupid investors so to speak and I think that even in their mind and and we’ve heard this from live before in the pif was that they they have their own exit strategies where they wanted individual investors to come in and start buying teams and they weren’t going to fund

This forever it comes back to a thing that we’ve talked about here on the podcast before is like the ultimate and the broad sustainability of this is there truly sustainability is the game of golf bringing in enough money and enough eyeballs and we can say which is

True we know it’s the fastest growing sport in America right now I don’t think any of this quarreling is helping that I think of anything that’s hurting it like we talked about earlier but the reality is even with it it being the fastest growing sport there’s still a certain

Tipping Point of a return on investment where you would just be burning money we’ve even seen it like with recently Wells Fargo dipping out of the PGA Tour because even though they’ve been a long time very loyal sponsor some of these elevated events just got too expensive

For them yeah right they’re the ones who are looking at it and saying look why would I spend $15 million on this I’m not going to make that money back I’ll go invest my money elsewhere at the end of the day I don’t think there’s anyone

Involved in this who holds the the money in their hand who’s a big enough fan that they’re going to say they’re going to run this at a loss forever yeah no right so I think that while the pif could keep increasing it spend $510 billion if they look at it as a long

Game investment for generations to come they’re you have to see where is it eventually that where’s that money going to be made back but could they even get rid of the tour because even if every single PGA Tour event evaporated wouldn’t the four majors still exist

They would but that’s not the PGA tour right so maybe at that point fans could be like well the PJ tour in here isn’t here I hate live I’m just going to watch these four events well that comes right back full circle to what we started the

Show off saying was saying like in that tweet that a lot of your casual viewers yeah are in fact doing that and that’s why I think at the end of the day I think that the deal needs to get done and then that’s where the that’s there’s

Some hope that I can see in in uh Phil Mickelson’s statements don’t don’t worry it’s gonna something’s gonna happen you’re going to see all the best players play together because from our standpoints as fans that’s all we really want right want to be to see all the best players that’s

Why we tune into the majors and likewise that that scenario benefits everyone it benefits sponsors because sponsors are going to come around and they they’re G you know as people watch the eyeballs are there the sponsors are there etc etc it’s the consistent fragmentation that’s causing this problem where what I’m

Saying is that we need to get to the and we’re not sitting at the negotiation table we can only speculate from the outside but we need to get to the root of what is really holding this up and I think what’s holding it up it’s more nuanced and more Dynamic than than all

This and there could be like you said in your argument there could be some players who want better compensation to stick around and maybe they’ve got a Tipping Point where eventually they would just go to live if they’re not going to be compensated properly there but I think there’s also a certain

Degree where you’ve got two entities in the PGA Tour and live and neither one of them wants to kind of take that backseat role I think that’s it right and and and that what comes out of any negotiation yeah negotiation really like is like there’s two two sides that want

Something yeah you know and I think that this is where we need some voice of reason in there and be like at some point guys we could bicker about this and extend this forever but we’re killing the game we love doing it right so at some point what even if it’s maybe

The PGA Tour has to loosen its grip maybe there has to be a a more of a a shared type of responsibility of of governing over the new league and they can’t just say well sure you can come on over and be under the PGA Tour Enterprises and we’ll just tell we’ll

Call the shots once you’re here and we’ll take your money right right yeah they might or you know or or maybe who who knows or maybe it’s it’s live as a less of a of a financial burden and they’re willing to give up a little bit

More I really don’t know but it just seems like looking at the outside looking in there’s definitely a little bit too much of that you know push back and either side totally totally and I I’ll even make another just a bold prediction that if Liv continues to to

Gain Steam and get stronger you could see Liv Majors where live team Majors yeah but anybody can call anything a major course but they’re going to start doesn’t mean it’s a major but imagine you had a three live Majors a year and The Winner Takes 50 million each now it’s like a

Heavyweight fight it’s like a mat the Capital One match you know it’s big money I do get it but on the same token we’ve run the polls on the site before we money doesn’t matter to people for the fans to the fans fans and that’s

Makes a major a major right I mean the history of the Masters I don’t think anything’s going to beat that right but I’m saying what if Li figures out these like loopholes say hey we’re going to come up with our own live golf world ranking system if you want to play and

Live you got you know what I mean and like we got our own ranking system they trying to do with their with their entry points and things like that so I think one one thing we’ve learned and I think you guys can tell us if you don’t

Believe this in the comments but I think one thing that from watching this for so long we’ve learned is that the per the size of the purses is not what’s going to cause people to tune in but I think what’s going to cause people to tune in

Is who’s playing MH so I think that A smart business move on Liv’s end would be to continue to take that money that they’re investing instead of investing in bigger and bigger purses and making the guys who are already there richer continuing to try to use that money to

Try to bring guys in if that’s what they want to do because I think that’s what does cause you to change the channel right right I admittedly don’t watch a lot of the Live Events I don’t watch them as close as I do the PGA Tour and

That could be just habitual because I’ve been watching the PGA tour for so many decades now I just know what events I tune in exactly but I’ll tell you the truth if you got to a point where 10 you know 15 of the top 20 guys are all playing in a live

Event I’m I’m G to start to tune in because I got to start to watch what the the these guys are doing and do you do you think that all this helps the corn fairy tour or guys coming up now just they’re saying like just keep getting better cuz you’re going to play

Somewhere and you’re going to make money somewhere well or is it the opposite like this game is going to get killed and you’re never going to make it I think anytime you have this much money floating around I think it it drives a lot of attention and I think no doubt

That it’s it’s probably even driving more people into the sport which is a good thing you know there there’s like I said there’s Silver Linings here to be found and stuff like that but I do think that the the biggest problem is that that what we’re going on now is where

Where there’s a a constant inl agreement is not sustainable for the game and I think you’re going to start to see more voices like the one we saw on that initial tweet saying we’re exhausted by this either come together or separate let us pick sides or don’t whatever it

May be but at some point you’re ripping the golf world apart too much and you and and concessions need to be made and I just wonder if there’s going to have to be a point in order for a deal to get done of some change in leadership and I

And I’m not saying that I’m one of those guys who’s hard and fast against Jay I I did not I did not like the way that he handled it the the the original agreement or anything like that but that being said I think any anytime you have

A a a moment in business this big that’s not getting quite pasted it’s it’s indicative that you need some sort of change in leadership to try to get that deal done someone needs to come in and help bridge this gap between what the players want what the PGA Tour perceives

It’s getting and what Liv perceives it’s getting because until we can get those perceptions the match we’re going to continue to have this problem yeah one guy that can do it he wears red on Sundays well listen Tiger’s in the mix and he’s been the one who has posed the

Idea of more ownership and things like that for the players um which is great but it it also it just increases the cost and means they have to drive more sponsorships in so I I we we I we’ll wait and continue to wait to see what happens but in the intrum I’m just

Looking at a live product that now with John ROM and and I’m very interested to see and we’ll talk about it here on the podcast when it happens what the broadcast numbers look like for the first live event with John ROM in it and if we’re starting to see that type of

Growth because that’s the growth that live needs but in the intrum like like I said I just I feel like a big part of holding this deal up is live thinking we can’t be put in a backseat roll where we’re just now absorbed under this PJ tour Enterprises and be the biggest

Funer of that yeah no doubt and and and guys totally definitely stay tuned because today all the interviews are starting to kick off at the sentury yes and they’re going to be asked the question you know about the deadline and we’re going to hear some from the

Players from the best players I think the best players X Rory is going to be at the century yeah so uh yeah and I think the only thing that we know is like as of right now this this this limbo is going to continue at least for

A couple more months so we’ll continue to update you guys on it as we see more it let us know your thoughts in the comments and uh let’s just kind of hope one way or another we get some answers really soon