Kevin Kisner on broadcasting + an unforgettable Phil Mickelson story

Smylie Kaufman chats with his newly minted “colleague,” Kevin Kisner, after the latter made his broadcasting debut for NBC Sports & Golf Channel at the Sentry. Kiz goes into detail on his first week as “media,” breaks down what he’s been working on in his golf game, and closes the show with one of the more unique Phil Mickelson stories you’ll ever hear.

#golf #golfing #golflife #golfswing #golfer #kevinkisner #philmickelson #pgatour #broadcasting #media #nbcsports #golfchannel

All right guys we got uh a colleague of mine from last week Kevin kizner joining the podcast so nice of you to join us during the middle of this national championship game I mean I mean it’s probably weird not seeing the Georgia Bulldogs playing right now but we’ll

Kind of keep everybody updated as this thing goes along as we’re sitting here in the middle of the third quarter but I mean kid I mean you’re playing golf this week but last week you did broadcasting I mean overall I thought you did a great job but where would you rank yourself

Handicap wise as a broadcaster just like you were playing golf so where are we starting as far as where our handicap is I’m an 80 shooter you’re an 8 come on dude you’re way better than that you got to give yourself a half handicapper I bounce

Around tell you how I can shoot 76 I just never have I mean so tell me about the week dude I mean I can’t imagine that broadcasting like entered your brain like at any point in the last couple of years but being able to do it last week

First off let us know like when the conversation’s kind of started to where you’re like you know what I might give that a try to see how it goes well Tommy’s always messed with me at tournaments I’d go to dinner with those guys or see them on the Range or

Hang out with him somewhere and he’s always saying when you’re ready to quit let me know I want you to try out for me and I was like dude I’m not quitting anytime soon he’s like I know but when you’re ready let me know and uh around

Obviously I didn’t play much in the fall so probably thought I was retiring or something and then he shows up at se Island um and he’s like hey I need to talk to you next week and I was like what do you mean he said well we got

Some stuff going on and I might need your help I was like all right next week was Thanksgiving I said call me he called me Monday morning like 9:00 a.m. he said can you give me some events that you’re not going to play that you can

Broadcast and I was like what I don’t like do I have to go to school it’s like holidays and have to go like to journalism school or broad uh broadcasting school you want me to fly to New York what do you want me to do

He’s like no no no I’ll give you a seminar on uh on the phone for 30 minutes and I was like you’re going to give me 30 minutes of prep and you’re going to give me an open mic to the world and he goes yeah I was like dude

There’s you’re bsing me here so sure enough he’s like um I’m going set you up with Sam and Lease they do all the contracts you want to when can you go and I was like well I’m going to Mai I mean I’m going to Honolulu to play so I

Could do Mai like all right perfect I’ll see you there I was like what this the wildest thing next thing I know I’m talking to the guy about a contract I was like I’ve never had a job in my life dude I don’t know what I’m doing I I my

Job’s to figure out how I make more birdies so here we are I uh talked to you for an hour on the phone the week before and you gave me all kinds of insight and then I showed up to my first meeting as employee on Wednesday at 1:30

In Maui I mean even that hour on the phone it’s until you get there there and experience kind of what what the heck I’m talking about and seeing it for yourself you really just don’t have an understanding of like what exactly goes into TV business because my first time

Seeing it I was like overwhelmed with all of the different traffics what goes on in the truck and first off Tommy’s our producer Tommy Roy that is and and you sat in the truck on Thursday and you just about probably booked your flight home after being spending an hour in the

Truck with how chaotic it is in that truck just kind of walk everybody through that experience of how hard it is to produce golf so I wasn’t going on on Thursday I W I didn’t have any I wasn’t wearing a headset on Thursday and he’s like why don’t you come in when I

Go in the in the truck like 30 minutes before we go on air and hang out with me for a couple hours and then ride up to the booth and just put a headset on and listen to them on the headset for a couple hours I was like yeah perfect man

Whatever so I walk in there like 12:40 we’re going on the air at 1 and at he has a chair sitting like right right next to him like knees touching my knees touching his knee and for one hour straight I listen to people yell and I I’d never forget Smiley you

Weren’t with me nobody I knew was there and I I tap him on one commercial I was like um it like 1:30 I might have made it 45 minutes I said I think I’m going to head up to the booth if that’s all right he’s like yeah go ahead that’s

Good and I walked out and I got my golf cart and I started driving and I reached down and I called my wife and I was like I I don’t think I can do it and she’s like what I was like literally I think I’ve got to come up with a way

To tell Tommy that I just don’t think I’m cut out for this because I just spent an hour on the broadcast and it’s so hectic and wild there’s like there’s no way I know when to go or anything she’s like I just hang in there and see

What happens tomorrow so I drive cart 15 minutes up to the booth and when I opened the door to the booth it was like walking into like a Zen yoga studio it was like calm cool got Dan Hicks talking very softly and nobody else is saying a

Word I was like oh this is so much better I can do this part so I I put the headset on kind of got a feel for uh what the heck was going on and then uh the next day they’re like yeah just jump in there we’re ready so off we went I

Was laughing that Thursday because when you came in and you got on headset just kind of listening and observing like halfway through the day you’re like like somebody tell me what like Mark Ring’s holes are because he keeps talking like on these random holes that I never know

Who’s going to be talking on which hole it just cracked me up there like that was one part I didn’t explain to you is that there I didn’t understand the holes thing I was like why is he talking in this time and not Kurt talking I don’t

Understand what how they know when that they’re going to talk and then they hand me the sheet of paper and they got it highlighted like six 12 14 rough and I was like oh now I got it figured out so from for those of you that don’t know

How TV golf announcers and broadcasts are kind of organized for the most part you have uh one or two holes guys and those guys you get assigned four or five holes and then you have your play-by-play guy that does the rest of the holes so Kevin was trying to figure

Out wait who he could not figure out who’s talking when it’s like wait what when am I supposed to talk and then I think by the end of the day you’re like okay I kind of have an understanding for this and then Friday comes around and I thought Friday was great because really

The off and that late afternoon was kind of crappy like there was nobody that was like in the lead like there was nothing serious that happened that Friday afternoon so you just told stories and I I was just laughing my butt off the entire time at some of these stories

That you were telling about like Patrick Klay asking you advice like an hour before the President’s Cup about how to put on Bermuda greens and just like ROM stuff like that man it just I thought so many different things you said just like added such a different insight to the

Broadcast yeah I think um you know from what I heard is having a guy that’s like been in there close with the guys recently it helped you know I’ve got stories on all of them because I’ve been around now some of these young guys I don’t have any stories if oxay would

Have got hot yesterday I’d have probably just sitting there twilling my thumbs the whole way I don’t have any have any dirt on him yet um but it was nice to have some of the guys I know well rolling and that I could uh pull from my

Old memory bank I remember tell making fun of the maxom story Friday afternoon about his putting he’s the worst looking putter like five years ago I’d ever seen and then I told him that after the tournament the next year I I didn’t play with him much but he had a great year

And then we go to play again I forgot the part on smiley on that the we played Captain’s Choice or however y’all want to call it Lauderdale the first day at that tournament and I putted second and the first hole I didn’t putt on was

14 so he didn’t make a putt in the first 13 holes and then he finally made like a four-footer on 14 I was like thank God man I was starting to like wonder if I was just going to putt by myself for the rest of the whole day and uh’s pretty

Good iron player though you know of course you’re hitting all of my putts though I’ve hit the green and you haven’t so it’s like fair fair deal but no it’s been uh it was cool really cool what about in the booth I mean I think the first time I did it and

When they turn the lights on for the first time like how bright it is and you do that on cuz I told you was like Hey man you’re going to have to do it on camera like just get prepared for like what you’re going to say and you were

You were saying just like how all over the place it was you just didn’t knew what was coming but still the on camera thing is kind of like awkward right like it’s because you’re talking to you know there’s Curt X you then you got Dan but

Then you also have the camera which is your basically third person so it’s just like you’re having this conversation it’s like you’re a bobblehead because you don’t you know where to look what I was uh what got me is like we’re Lou back in there I’m lean back kind of got

My feet up talking about golf like I’m watching on my couch and then all a sudden you hearing your ear all right we’re coming on camera next and everybody jumps up real quick Gets Ready puts all their on like fixes their hair I’m like woo that’s fast that’s

Came out of nowhere and lights pop on you’re like oh boy they’re about to come to us any second I’ve got like peanut butter and jelly in my mouth I’ve been choking Coke over here I got coffee spilled on my shirt uh yeah let’s go to the camera Tommy sounds great

Is there is there anything from the week like story-wise that you’ve looked back and you’re like man I cannot believe I forgot to say this about a certain player like is there something like you’re thinking about now it’s like man how did I forget that story or like how

Did I forget in that moment to say this like did you have any or just any regrets about anything you said or did during the broadcast that you would have done differently not really on the player but uh so there we don’t eat the whole time up there all we have is

Peanut butter and jellies and like bananas and and Waters and coffee and Dan like halfway through always eats a peanut butter and jelly so I started doing it too right I’m like I’m starving too hell yeah give me a peanut but jelly so one of the on camera times like they

Came out of nowhere Dan’s got his like mic up and he’s eating and he knows all what’s about to flow and all of a sudden Tommy’s like all right on camera next and we go to on camera and Dan starts talking and I turn to look at him and

His whole bottom lip is covered in jelly and I was like oh my God in my head I’m like is that on TV cuz that’s funny as it’s got like a purple bottom lip and I wanted to make fun of him on air but I was like I don’t know if that’s kosher

Or not like we’re up here grubbing out on PB and JS and now I’m gonna make fun of him with jelly all over his lip oh my god when we when we quit I was like get that uh get the mirror Dan and check out your lip you just showed America

There I mean at the Phoenix Open I think it’s going to be totally koser I mean you just got to you got to you got to dog them at the Phoenix open if that happens now oh yeah I’m like how many peanut butter and jellies do you have to

Eat to go on camera with jelly on your lip I’m going with two oh man well I guess the last thing I’ll talk about with the media side of of just the business what you’ve probably realizes and it’s totally different being in that chair versus

Watching golf on TV and and a big topic of the conversation kids is talking about commercials and just how that ruins the flow of the broadcast this and that and like listen we don’t want to have to show commercials we’d cover golf all day and the last I guess the last

Two hours of our broadcast on Sunday that at leased uh the hour before the last our last hour we didn’t have a commercial but the hour before that I think we had like five or six tell me about the difference between those two for a guy like you like you I think what

You told me something along the lines like I can’t imagine not having a break because doing that for however many straight hours is just like it’s harder than you think the entire time I did it I was like all people about at home is commercial breaks and there always they

Always go to commercial I literally lived for the commercial breaks up there I was like dude how have we not gone to commercial yet I feel like I’ve been talking for 20 minutes straight and we nobody said a thing about a commercial I’m like surely we’re going to

Commercial I got to take a league like women you supposed to pee up here for 4 hours um and I got to run outside and pee in a UR a portal John real quick run back in everybody’s yelling at me kiss is off mic kiss is off mic I’m like can

A brother take a piss one time um I tell you he joined me out on the cor that was one huh I said you can join me out on the corus I mean there’s always there’s piss breaks everywhere I I literally that was the biggest takeaway I like I’m never

Letting somebody about how many commercials there are again like we need more commercials we need to go like six an hour from here out that hour that last hour I was hitting my phone like crazy I’m like holy cow we still got 40 minutes of no commercials I got to go

Talk for 40 minutes straight it takes a while to get through those last couple holes of caloa you think oh they’re on 16 wa I tell you what that 17 and 18 are always just like a a March to the finish and then with no commercials you got to

Just make up dead time and talk about nobody wants to hear anyway while they’re walking to the green wish you knew Chris Kirk though that helped yeah help but uh yeah we need a commercial right there smiley I’m all for it we’re going to make a Smiley Show kizner

Foundation commercial and put it in right there that’s what we need that’s what we need um all right so outside of the media I mean the highlight of the week you got to play golf with me so that that had to be pretty fun I mean we

Played you and I rod in the cart and we played against uh these two high school kids uh Landon and Dylan uh one’s in college one’s in high school played over at the bay course on Saturday afternoon it blew like crazy then we get out to

The Bay course it was one mph wind and all we played were part fives and part 3es I mean I I finished that round like dude I’m I’m turning pro you had you had a big problem that day didn’t you you just couldn’t stop hting at where you were

Looking it was it was just it’s an epidemic going around it’s it’s a tough scene man I just could not stop hitting it where I was looking and I asked a fun course though it was an awesome course and those guys took such good care of me

All week those high school kids like had golf balls and Waters and carts and they let me go out in front of the first group every day it was unbelievable how nice they were to me and uh so I had to repay the favor and I drug you along

With me and and uh we found something over there for you you might come back on tour you might drop the mic and come back too yeah I mean until I hit it out of bounds on 17 and 18 the next day at Plantation uh hold that I was going to

Make F of that I wasn’t even going to bring that up and then you just self deprecated yourself it wasn’t even I was I was trying to sling one off the the booth CED a little on the heel and then the wind got it it’s not even we’re not

Even talk about it honestly yeah but we had to play in way harder conditions than they did at capalo yesterday yeah but that Golf Course is it was not hard my goodness and and that was kind of thinking the question mark for you on this would be you know the debate like

Every time like there’s a scratch golfer it’s like you know what what what would a scratch golfer shoot at a major championship I actually think like if a scratch golfer played caloo like I think they have no problem breaking that tournament in that tournament 100% I think you have a bunch of scratch

Golfers that could have probably top gotten top 30 I mean I’m just telling you just wasn’t playing hard at all and with no win I bet they would have struggled on whatever day blue Saturday they would have struggled yeah front n we didn’t play the front nine I

Think uh I think the front had a little more teeth when the wind was blowing but the back’s pretty pretty easy the whole I mean what we we flip wedges to every hole except 17 yeah and but any to we had a chip we couldn’t really get it

There cuz like the grain was such a problem I feel bad for that maintenance staff that’s like cleaning up our chop Fest on 14 green today after we chipped a 100 Balls there it looked like it looked like wild boar had come down there and rooted up the area with the

Most grain because Smiley and I were determined to figure out how to hit the Chip Shot best we’re digging the out I mean there’s grain every we might have just got all the grain out of the hole we might it all I think the rain’s

Going to be not an issue next year it could just be dirt and then I started forehead a couple of them over the green CU I’m trying to get kind of shallow and I was like got got that little low Point behind it was like right across the

Green then you went back there and practice you’re like yeah I need to work on that shot anyway it was easy over there that grain like the Fairway was just brutal my goodness brutal man uh well well Charlie’s got a couple of our highlight package uh ready for us here

What’s what’s roll what’s roll clip number one from our experience playing together at the uh I don’t even know what the course is called the bay course um here this 11th hole cut for IR I mean just take us through that whole process here you know what I mean this is just a

Work of art so I’m uh I’m telling you how I was going to show you something I never do here and I’m gonna hit that big high cut forarm but then I aim right at the Target so that’s pretty good you might want to a open up a little bit if

You’re going to hit a cut you idiot so uh yeah I’m aimed right at the Target and uh am I allowed to cuss on your show by the way I yeah no play on play on yeah okay um yeah so then as I I didn’t

Know you were videoing so as I go ahead and hit my slice over there right of the green I just let you know how I felt about it right about now really like you don’t even so here’s here’s a question mark for me kid and you’re somebody that talks about in

Their golf swing how you don’t ever really feel the ground uh it’s it’s all more shoulders and arms but all I see in this club throw is loading that front foot getting a little knee Bend and using the ground to fling the club with Force I mean look at that I mean that’s

Like that’s the shoulders are just a result of you using the ground so you need me to get some ground force going ground reaction what are these nerds call it now ground reaction forces yeah that’s what I need to hit I bet that that really would help me start

Aim more to the left if I started thinking about the ground well next week and I’m watching Charlie why don’t you continue to see how my uh my commentating friend what he what he did right after he saw me Tomahawk this four iron down the Fairway uh video cut off

GNA amazing host the show yeah gets to edit the video however he would like a few moments later can you pull up the other video oh he thought my hot cut was so funny decided to chug a Pacifico we didn’t have any F man uh

It’s it’s all good it’s all good I mean it that’s what you call Sony Open prep right there boys that when in Hawaii open yeah when in Hawaii um Charlie can you pull up the other video if you don’t mind I thought this was actually this will actually have a legitimate

Conversation on this one because uh when we’re talking about chipping um at one point I don’t know when did you start going like cross-and was that last year at some point yeah uh well I scal like a most routine chip ever and then I got so

Pissed off that I just grabbed it cross- sanding because I knew Matt Fitzpatrick did and then I just flushed the out of it and I was like huh I’m gonna start do this I’m GNA start doing that more often that looks like this is at the QB

Shootout see though all right walk me through like so somebody that’s really struggling with chipping and you immediately grab a wedge and go cross-handed and you had immediate success like what’s the first thing you felt that that you could do that you couldn’t do uh with your regular

Pitching motion well I got into a bad car wreck in college and I hit a car head on and I bent the steering wheel and my always had a right wrist problem so I always felt like uh coming down regular I couldn’t hold the angle in my

Right wrist if that makes sense like dump it yeah I just dump it and stall out and then i’ skull it cuz the bottom would move so far forward and so I uh as soon as I grabbed it that way it felt like I could carry the depth a little

Bit longer on the downswing of my wrist angles although I kind of derf that one right there but it hit the flag I remember this shot right here I uh what hole is that I could figure strier it was the driveable par for and I was playing with Stricker and he hit it

Right there and you know how good he chips and we played we played $100 hole outs and then I got hosed right there and he hit some Ned chip right before to like four feet and I was like that was terrible strict watch this I’m gonna do

It cross-handed because I don’t think he knew I chip cross-handed yet and uh I said I’ll even beat you cross sanded and then I it almost went in I mean honestly probably it probably should have gone in all right you can cut that off proba finally cut Max shot right

There but didn’t happen uh so if just like the rest of your game and we just saw the chipping you said you were struggling with that cross-handed seems to be doing some good stuff uh kind of like rest of your game like whole career

Like if you put it in a nutshell as far as just your ball striking putting everything like did you ever have periods of struggle with your ball striking like beginning of your pro career like have you’ve gone through like ups and downs with all this have you always been fairly consistent no

I’ve been a roller coaster my whole career I had a good run there like 15 to 20 basically where I I hit it pretty good but I was just uh this is my 300 start uh this week at the Sony Open and it was my first start on tour and I just

Talking to my wife Britney we stayed in the the worst hotel in W when we flew over here it was like awful right it was the only one we could afford and then I shot like 16 over par for two days the cuts like what three under and uh my

Mom’s a huge like walk the course and like keep St on the card like a junior golf mom and so she always wore golf shoes to walk the course and I remember my wife like wore golf shoes too trying to be like impress my mom and I shoot 16

Over we get back to the hotel I’m like I can’t play the PJ tour I suck and my wife’s like well I can’t walk the course with your mom in golf shoes cuz look at these blisters on my feet and so we sat in our shitty hotel room here what 14

Years ago and like watched the AC drip mold on us and uh decided that the PJ tour just probably wasn’t in our future and and here we are 300 starts later wow how about that so uh like you said ball striking wise 15 to 20 is when you’re

Probably the most consistent so before that um like when did you start seeing uh John tilery was that before 15 would that have been yeah I went to him like um in the fall of 13 so fall of 13 so before that so you turned Pro in what

Year kid I turned Pro in 07 so 07 two years mini tour then I went to the web.com and then I got my card that year so would you say from 2007 to 2013 before you saw Tillery were you just kind of an inconsistent ball Striker

What what would you describe like I just never was a uh a ball striking nerd I just that’s all we ever did was Chip and put and go play so I never really thought about how to hit a golf ball I just yeah you know if I was hitting it

Really bad I wouldn’t took an hour lesson from the club pro you know what I mean and then uh a like yeah you aim to the right or whatever you want to say then just simple stuff yeah and uh and then I played the mini tours like that I

Didn’t have any lessons and and we played such uh like munis on the mini tours sorry Michigan oh he dropped it sorry um we play like we played munis and the golf balls on the Range were so shitty nobody hit range balls so you just played and puted

On the putting green and that’s all we did and I made a bunch of money and played good on the mini tours and then I got on the web C and started noticing guys hit it better than me but I was just meaner and a bulldog and kind of

Figured out how to play and then when I got on tour and I shot me a little 16 o ski over here at the Sony Open and I watched like guys lacing for IRS on the Range I was like holy I just hope to hit the center of the face like one

Out of 10 these guys are hitting it every time uh I started to realize I might need to start figuring out how to hit a golfball yeah and so when you when you saw uh uh till for the first time I mean I think he he’s very good at

Articulating to their players just like learning the information that he teaches and I I take that kind of came out for you on the broadcast to me I really feel like you can look at a swing whether it’s yours or somebody else’s and really understand how their body moves and how

That affects the club face and uh just what they have to do to square the club face up and I don’t know if that felt like that was natural to you in broadcasting but to me that kind of came out well in 10 years with tiller I’ve

Been working with him since 2013 I mean he’s evolved too so we’ve gone from like all different theories on how best to play and best to and and bodies to Arms to hands and we’ve done it all so we’ve tried every different pattern and studied every pattern and also when I

Sucked this year and quit I like nobody can figure you out like you so I really started studying what he thought what I thought what made me function what makes you function differently than me and I just think guys you know too often get caught up in just because it feels this

Like we have no idea how feels are like Smiley I could punch you in the face and Charlie the same same level of intensity and you might cry and he might say I didn’t even feel that so how can we tell some guy that you need to feel this on the

Downswing when I have no idea what you’re feeling so uh I think that’s the hardest part about golf instruction and teaching the best players in the world or any anybody at that point uh you got to figure out what makes them tick and what makes like one of the things JT and

I are now like totally on board is I have to make it it has to feel good to me it doesn’t matter what it looks like like if I tell you I can beat somebody’s ass with that let’s figure out what that is and let’s go with that and if I if

You think it looks great and I tell you I can’t walk to the first te then there’s no point in going down that path anymore that’s a good point and when and this is something you just now figured out at 39 40 years old which is you’re

40 a couple weeks you know we all go down these rabbit holes and chasing the next thing right like well if I work on my left foot and I get my push pressure on my right foot and if I get more stable and I do this I might really

Start hitting it good and then you’re thinking about your feet and your knees and your hips and what about the club face and your arms and wind and how far I’m going to hit this ball so it may work perfectly for you you might play great thing about the ball of your left

Foot I could give one about the ball my left foot I want to hit the middle of the face and I want the subit to curve to the left and start to the right so let’s do that and so what did you figure out was uh the change so was

There something that you were trying to do for a while that that you realized he’s like I I can’t work with this like this is isn’t the feel and what was the feel that you ended up finding so I always fear a white block cut I know you know nothing about that

But I fear the hell out of it like wake up in the middle of the night like when you go to hell all you do is feel the feel that I feel when I hit the block cut type stuff dude we I think we’re in

The same I think we’re in the same like if you’re in room 224 I’m in room 225 with you in this nightmare man we have like the adjoining doors yeah so I mean anything to not make me feel a block cut feeling I’ll I can play you I’ll play

You all day if I don’t have that feeling I don’t care if the ball goes dead left all day I just don’t and so what I in my really smart redneck brain I do to try not to hit it left is I start down by opening up my body

Really hard and pulling on my hands really hard and getting over the top basically and narrow so that’s a really good way to hit it even further to the right and so instead of just being like Oh I don’t want to hit it to the right

I’m going to stay really patient get my arms down there and then I’ll turn a lot later and just close the door and swing it around me so um what’s been crazy is this one little flashlight drill that JT got he had a flashlight on on each end of

The yeah and so he’s like here man put that thing on your target Line run it back down the target line it flips up on the target line then bring it down on the target line and instantly I had this feeling of I was like my arms had to do

So much more in the downswing and they had to feel I don’t know if you can see this on camera but I had to feel like I kept my wrist angles way longer to drive the flashlight down the target yeah so I would I guess what I’d do is

I’d open way up and then start throwing it trying to catch up right and uh yeah that’s no way for Kevin kizner to play I can promise you well and I was like in a similar notion to kind of relate to that and you kind of explained this to me as

Well I was like dude like because I explained to you was like man I I kind of pull on it and you were actually the first person to say this like all right what happens when you pull on it you’re like you’re you open up too much and

Like I’m a person that’s trying to get the club to go I’m trying to get my arms in the club to get down so that I can rotate yes so I can just rotate as hard as I can but if you tell somebody that’s struggling that that doesn’t want to hit

It right and you tell them like I’m trying to hit a fade and for me with an iron out of the top like I’m trying to hit a fade out of the top when you try to do that you get over the top that shoulder opens up and that you’re just

Always going to be short narrow arm swing and you’re gonna be Steep and you’re going to slap that thing it’s going to go even further right so it’s it’s so hard because your brain when when things are going quicker it’s harder to be patient and your body

Just doesn’t feel the same so I imagine it’s taken you quite a bit in competition to get comfortable with that feel because I bet it to you Tempo wise it feels like if you go one two three like I bet it feels like one two like it probably just feels like forever back

Here in the downswing still can’t do it I mean I I’m my I’m doing way better but I still can’t do it I like on the Range I can do it I can rep it out when I’m hitting one after another but like one

T- shot to the next over a span of 18 to 22 minutes I’m it’s who knows what’s coming you know I I at least my pattern’s way tighter than it was when I quit yeah I thought it good but it’s not like every single one of them’s a

Perfect push draw right down the middle like you kind of need to start doing if you’re going to have 165 mph ball speed and for for you like I I think till where he’s fantastic at teaching and giving guys mental Tempo cues like I you were even helping Landing the kid

Out here in Hawaii with this chipping just like giving him some Tempo cues like can you kind of walk do you do that with like your putting chipping and ball striking do you count that out in your head so I never see somebody that tells

Me they suck at chipping go too slow in transition never never seen some guy like get up there chill out talk about the day and then then just ease right on through it right no everybody that says they have the chipp and Yips or the putting Yips for that matter gets

Somewhere in this point back here and goes oh just like Kurt was doing on with my freaking putter yesterday I was about to kill him with that putting that on my putter uh and uh so man I JT loves a metronome because he’s a a u

Sound guy you know he can play music I’m like the least musically inclined guy in the world so the metronome does nothing for me except if I’m putting if I’m putting I can go I can beep it and beep it but you tell me to turn something all

The way up here and then chill out and like when’s the beep coming oh there beef it I’m like no chance bro so the one two three kind of helps me with my arms set like I set the club that’s one big turnover stable pelvis that’s two

And then three is like getting my arms back down the target line like I was telling you so I I just randomly threw that at land and it must have been the seven Pacifico that that got me right and then made me think think of that at

The perfect time and uh then he flipped two flop shots in the grip up there on us yeah no I I just was wondering because you know so often as golfers you’re trying to find a way to distract yourself a little bit from like just thinking about outcomes right and if you

Have cues for Tempo I think that’s a great way to not only play for amers but for professional golfers that are trying to win golf tournaments I mean it’s just a I I had it with my putting I didn’t do it as well with with anything maybe like

Bunker shots and stuff I would try to like make sure to feel that like d like just something that’s like a little slower in my head because naturally we’re inclined to go quicker and why do we go quicker in transition I’ll never understand but because you can bomb it

That’s where you think you’re gonna get the most speed your Club can only go the fastest once that’s a fact so we think we’re gonna do it up here come on Baby because I’m gripping that club at like a nine out of 10 man it’s it’s easy to pull on that thing when I’m gripping it like a I’m holding a hacksaw I think I’m over 10 can you go over 100% I think I’ve got like 11 out of 10 I mean we’re talking

About everybody’s kind of listening to us right now and we’re just I mean we’re all the same I mean we all struggle with certain things but one of the things I I don’t think you’re confused at all about is your in and and probably after watching me putt you probably feel the

Same way I feel like we both see putting from a a similar angle which is very stable but like even yesterday when I was watching you I just felt like I could watch you putt all day and I just continue to learn like how to properly

Set up to a putter because like all your lnes are just absolutely perfect yeah I said it on the broadcast yesterday I was talking about Scotty Sheffer setup but I it was awesome too the putting is the only that’s not dynamic in golf like we’re not moving

Anything other than our core and our t-spine basically our arms are just along for the ride with rocking everybody says you’re rocking your shoulders but are you really rocking your should I can’t really rotate a shoulder I don’t really understand that whole deal like I can turn a core around

My spine or I can turn a t-spine um so it’s not Dynamic if I get in the same setup and I get in the most stable spot in the I can possibly get and I describe it to people like if you’re playing short stop or something like you see all

The different people you watch every short stop in major leagues they all stand there the same way when the ball’s about to be pitched you know they’re down they’re ready they’re stable so they can move so I’m always trying to get as athletic or stable as possible everybody talks about how I look

Like I’m going to the bathroom or something but I’m like okay well come try to push me over I’m not going I’m not going to fall over like some people I look at on tour um so if I’m not going to do anything Dynamic I’m going to get

As stable as possible and just try to move the least amount of as possible yeah and they used to show you on the broadcast like pre warming up you got those little uh what are those little yellow balls you put like you strap them Bott feet call like Chango

Paws you can just get them on Amazon oh yeah but I mean I just try to find some I carry my bag to stand on you can stand on anything you stand like a half a foam roller you can stand on those foam things in the gym anything to make you

Figure out like where I’m not going to fall down if somebody pushes me get on some unable you’ll figure out real quick where how to set yeah that makes sense and the like what was you gave one drill to Kurt Barum with his putter you know what what was

The thing you talked about like you took a couple of his fingers off um yeah every time I see people that are like yippy it’s always grip pressure you know the grip pressure changes in the stroke so I always just tell people to take every finger off but the ring in the

Middle and try to put those on the grip you can use your your palms still but you you can really get a feel for what has to move the putter when you’re not really holding on to it like I got to get some momentum from somewhere other than my hands so what am

I yeah you just start feeling like your stomach and your back start doing it instead of your hands or you just get one of those broomstick Putters yeah he was trying to tell me that you your speed’s better with a broomstick I just can’t fathom that we argued about it in

Every break up there can you believe how many guys are putting with the long putter again it yeah I mean it’s fascinating I I I I probably had more of an issue definitely with the belly putter I like wasn’t a fan of that because I really

Thought there was no skill in that I really wasn’t a fan of the uh the arm loock putter too like I kind of felt like that was more just as bad as the belly putter but for whatever reason I don’t have an issue with the broomstick

As much as I do like that I did with the belly Putter and the arm block well I DED that butter today on the Range and I feel like the broomsticks hard if you can’t put it on anything it feels hard to me yeah I know that’s that’s what I was

Saying like I don’t have an issue with it as much as I did with like arm loock like I think that’s I think that’s should be I think any of us that picked up a arm lock were like that’s I even tried it but I missed every putt so then

That was it after that um but you can pick that up on the putting ring like oh yeah this is pretty easy all right well I mean during the week you you gave me two of the best kid stories that I’ve heard I mean I need to

Spend more time around you you can probably you tell me more and more stories but can you tell the story about you and Scott Brown at the Zer classic playing with Duff uh when we uh we wouldn’t chip yeah yeah y’all couldn’t chip or wouldn’t

Chip so xur’s like like uh number 14 at caloa all the way around though like every hole has that around the greens and it was wet and it’ been raining all matted down dormant Bermuda and uh we’re Scott and I are playing and we’re playing best ball of the first day so it

Wasn’t as evident like we couldn’t chip because if one of us was missed the green they just kind of put it up there if the other guy was on the green kind of just get out of the hole while they finished but then we’re playing with

Duff and I think Pat and kazy and and we’re in the second round and we’re rolling pretty good and we’re in like third place and Duff’s like I mean I’ve never seen tour players not chip the ball so much like every hole y’all miss the green y’all go straight for the

Putter and I was like yeah we’re whipping your ass you know we’re putting 4T and we’re tapping it in so we get around the front and and we got like three holes to go on Friday and they’re like right around the cut line and I’m pretty sure that brownie hit this iron

Shot and it lands dead in between uh the green and a bunker and as the ball’s coming down Duff yells back what the hell y’all going to do from there so you’re were telling me the ball was on the other side of the bunker and y’all could not like put it around the

Bun we not going to put it through the bunker so we got to figure something out I think I had to chip it I I’m pretty sure and U there was two stories to it cuz on the back night so I get up there and I I’m pretty sure I chipped it and

Somehow like fatted a a full lob off the duff stuff to like N9 fet and brownie made it for par and I was like that’s what we’re going to do that was just like I wanted to do it U but also I think at the part of the story I told

You was on uh on the back n early in the realm I uh I brownie drove it in the bunker I had had no shot like in a small bunker I had to like just kind of pitch it down the Fairway and he had like 45 yards to the

Front the pin’s 20 on he’s got like 65 yards and I walk up and he goes I can’t I can’t chip this shot I said do what I said what do you mean you can’t chip it he goes if I chip I’m either going to

Hit it right here in front of you and you get to hit it or I’m going to hit in those trees back there cuz I’m going bone it trying not to Fat it and we’re going to have to play lost ball and I was like well it man just putt it man I

Don’t know what else to do and it was kind of like one of those you could only putt it like to the front edge and it would take it the rest of the way and brownie hits his Putt and it’s traversing through the Fairway like this

You know and Duff is on the green he goes oh my god I’ve never seen some like this in my whole career but hold on the the the Chef kiss of this entire like two stories you just told is that you’ll win the golf tournament the same week right cuz you

CH got a bone one on 18 in the dark bone right into the flag went in in the dark and we went to playoff and lost I mean that’s this is this is why this story is so good because so many people remember this Chip Shot from you KZ and I

Remember in my head thinking like man those two guys can really pitch it around the greens like in the dark to be able to do that like this story comes out you put it around my dog my ball on 18 if hit the flag was alligator food and they hit

That flag going about 108 milph went in and I acted like I planned that the whole time God y’all were going nuts and rightfully so cuz y’all hit the green it was like go we hit the green we in finally finally and up and down all right so the other the other

Story and I thought this was just like hilarious and totally like if you know Phil this story makes so much sense the President’s Cup story of of not being in his pod the week of uh would this would this been not Quail Hollow Li National Liberty National yeah

17 yeah so I don’t know Phi that well I mean other than playing a few times with them leading up and I’m in a pod with like chappie and Charlie Hoffman or somebody you know some of my buds and on Wednesday strick’s like hey kids uh we’re switching up the pods today and

You’re going to go with Phil and I can’t remember it was like cooch and DJ Phil cooch and DJ that’s what it was cuz we play a big money match on that day and we were just getting slaughtered out there uh so we and Phil on the same team

I assume Phil and I played them two we’re gonna play best ball in the front and Alternate shot on the back and uh we’re going and the whole time I’m like trying to figure out what the hell am I doing here like why am I play am I not

Playing at all this week or something what’s going on and so the third hole comes up and Phil hasn’t found his ball in three holes like literally we’re yelling four snap hooks high Y and I’m like geez man he’s playing bad I had seen him play all week and then strick

Rides up he’s like hey kids you’re gonna go in our anchor match with h Phil alternate shot tomorrow yall gonna play Jay day and Mark Lehman and this is like JD and Mark Lehman were their two best players at the time they were rolling right yeah and um so I’m like holy

I I don’t know anything about Phil I’m like what is going on Phil proceeds to shoot like four 46 on the front nine like doesn’t cut me a hole we’re down like three down DJ and cooch are laughing their ass off that I’m just getting smashed and now I gota play with

Phil I’m telling you Phil can’t hit it on the planet I’ve never seen anything like so we go to the back nine and all of a sudden it goes the alternate shot he just starts striping it I’m like what in the world is going on anyway fast

Forward so I’m like we get done we lose I’m like strict pull strict I’m like what the hell’s going on man like why am I playing with Phil I literally in my pregame was like I can’t play with Phil I hit all the fairways Phil never hits

One I don’t know how to play with that guy and so I’m playing with Phil and he’s like well Phil has an astronomer that graded all the two teams and you got the highest grade and so he’s basically just told us that he wasn’t playing with anyone but you so I was

Like okay that’s the weirdest I’ve ever heard in my life so I go talk to Phil I’m like so what’s up with this astronomer K oh not only that kids every time I hit a shot I need you to face me with your belly because all your energy

Comes from your belly and I can pull your energy before every shot and I was like well judging by the front nine of day that I don’t have enough energy to save us and this is going to be brutal so we whatever the next day and sure

Enough he doesn’t forget one man every time he goes to hit he’s like Kiss Kiss here stand right here I’m like Jesus this is the weirdest I’ve ever done in my life and we missed one Fairway in that match an alternate shot on Thursday and I missed it he hit every Fairway

That was his te- balls I missed one Fairway and we drummed J day and Mark lean it was one of the greatest turnarounds and ball striking overnight I’ve ever seen in my life I mean you you can’t make it up kid and so it must have

Been my energy to be honest it was your energy and tell me about the shot he hit into that one hole it was probably like a uh was it a three iron or something he hit yeah it was the third Hall of the day uh I it was straight in the wind and

I it was my haul to drive I hit in the Fairway and I was like yeah you’re probably not going to play very well from there you’re so unused to being there and he’s like hahaa whatever and he stands over this three iron it’s like 230 blowing 30

Miles an hour and he hits his shot and I look up and it’s not leaving the flag the flag’s just over a bunker and it lands just over the bunker and it rolls up there in the leather and I said damn good shot Pro and he’s like thank you and I started

Walking off and he goes hey kids hold on a second I said yeah what’s up he said I made that look a lot easier than it was I just want you to know that [Laughter] I mean you just can’t make it up man I mean you can make once you spend some

Time around Phil I mean he just God he’s he just got those one wiers man after he does something special like that it’s just the best my God I mean I I I don’t think of any other way like kids I got nothing else man like this was we talked

Golf we talked we talked media we talked Phil Mickelson energy story like people are going to go to bed tonight wondering like what what did I just hear about this as astrologist or astrom I don’t know what he said I don’t know what he is either I’m still trying to figure it

Out myself I ended up playing every match with Phil in that damn thing how about that play good too right I played all three matches with them yeah we played good I think we went 20 and one or something like that yeah all right well we got five minutes left this

National championship game this last question I got for you uh we talked about going uh to Augusta National this year or at least I’ll be in town and I know you’re not too far away in Ain and you live out at paleto golf club and somebody told me that the beer price is

Like during the year like $1 but like Augusta National week they really hike it up to $2 is this is this right a150 and it goes to $2 so they hike it up a whole 50 cents on the Master’s week you think they can cut me a deal

There maybe $1.75 when I come in town or what man I think they’re going to have to charge you $2 I don’t know man in fact I’ll talk to the you’ve seen me drink beer which is probably why I’ll squirrel you a 12pack for a150 the week

Before all right well we’re going to have to sign that up and hopefully we can play some golf over there I got to go to Kizer town and and uh do the whole sh and pony thing and and watch you uh you know steal the show over there so we

All have to do that sometime I’ll parade you around like one of my kids dog Bring It On well I’m going to request you this week I hope you’re a feature group and uh let’s watch the rest of this football game and kids look forward to being on

The call with you in Phoenix so uh we will see you uh see you see you next week and see you in Phoenix come on over here to the Rain soaked Honolulu my friend all right brother thanks for coming on anytime my man I’ve actually watched a couple of episodes of of of

Y’all earlier and uh you guys have some good takes so thanks for uh thanks for what you guys do it’s cool to see what you guys are doing and uh I I know golf fans appreciate it but we we do too so please keep it up I think you’re doing a

Tremendous job and and you know I listen to this podcast is really cool and