Football’s tactical landscape is evolving, and nobody knows that better than Steve Guinan. Transitioning from player to coach, he gives us the inside scoop on how technology and innovative strategies have reshaped football management across the world.
We tackle the debate surrounding the effectiveness of former players as managers, drawing upon stories from the likes of Jack Wilshere, and dissect how their rich playing experience translates into the strategic world of football. Steve’s unique perspective reveals the intricate dance of adapting age-old wisdom to the modern analytical approaches that define the game today.
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⏰ Timecodes ⏰
0:00:00 Coming up
0:00:47 Football Journey
0:09:50 Coaching Evolution and Player Transition
0:15:52 Coaching and Managing Teams
0:24:57 Evolution of English Coaches and Managers
0:32:02 Tactical Evolution and Development in Football
0:44:33 The Future of Coaching and Development
0:49:27 Appreciation for Insights and Well Wishes
#footballcoaching #football #england #soccer #coaching #sport #podcast #learning #christiescanlon
Such a a brutal world and now granted League you know Championship League one League two is not like that but I think you know you walk into a new job any job in the world it takes time to readjust
The game just changes all the time and I think players are a a lot more intelligent than what they were nowadays because they have to be because of the way the games evolv so um I think first and
Foremost you’ve got to be tactically adopt because if you don’t get if you don’t get results then you’re not going to have any longevity anyway and all the other facets are important just bubbling away behind the scenes there are anything I think you’ve got to try and not be afraid to develop
The players but but try things try different formations try new things on the pitch don’t be afraid to make mistakes because it’s the only way we there um that that that would be a summary
If you me I want to begin by going into the very beginning of your journey how did football become a passion for you at a young age oh do you know what I’m going to drop my dad in it here
Um probably like most people really Grassroots football I was playing in the back Garden I had an older brother Mike who was a couple years older than me and as you do you tend to look
Up you know to your sibling uh and he used to go to Cubs back then um and they started a football team and no one knew anything about football and I still don’t think my dad knows anything about
Football I’m probably a bit arsh on him there but he was the one who was instigated with actually you can be you know coach of the of the Cubs team so I was very early you I started to kick a ball
At two and three and I was actually playing yeah from from my brother’s team a couple years up at five years old so every Saturday morning come rail hail trying you know every condition I was playing
With my dad managing the team my mom wrapped up on the sideline so that was the way it started really how did that transition happened for you in terms of becoming involved within maybe the elite footballing process obviously you mentioned your Grassroots upbringing then when was that
Moment for you when you realized actually I’m very talented and have an opportunity to maybe make a career within this um I think probably the penny started to drop when I was about 11 we actually
Moved uh away from Birmingham where where we lived when I was 10 years old due to my dad’s job we moved up to to harri for a couple of years and it was up there that lead United took a little bit of
An interest in me but my dad’s job also brought us back down and we ended up moving to starbridge and I signed for a Grassroots team then called Forest Falcons and I had a leag with Villa so I had a
Trial at Villa they wanted to sign me but at the same time the way it was back then you know you were you’d sign Associated school boy forms at 14 to 16 I didn’t sign so literally every half-term
Holiday I was trying you know man United Liverpool Arsenal Villa Noam forest was one of those um and in the end much to my uh dad disgruntlement I decided to become a professional footballer so
He wanted me to go to college Fe my education and I was like listen I’ve got a real opportunity to try and make something here and at that time I was one of the very few people who probably had
Some decent GCS results and and had the dare say intellect to to go to college so I was the only one out of that Apprentice coort that went to college but um ultimately 16 alls school went
To Nan forest and signed as an apprentice and the journey began yeah and in terms of that Journey 500 Football League games just on reflection of maybe your career as a player what what are the key lessons that you’ve learned Steve in terms of those experiences that have enabled you to
Maybe transfer some of that into your coaching practice and your coach education today is there anything that stands out well the game’s changed in awful um I mean I I look back now and I’m still
Friends with a lot of you know former teammates at a number of clubs and uh to give an indication of how it Chang my first pre-match meal was staying kidney pine chips 12 o’clock on a Saturday you
Know and how life has changed I could there was no no nutrition no Sports s so there’s none of that input at all so um I look back now and I I wonder what would I have been if i’ have had all that
Guidance and and everything else that went with it but I think you know the players like machines nowadays aren’t they they’re like fin toe athletes and the slightest thing goes wrong and they get injured and that wasn’t the case in our day I think we were more robust but we were definitely
Less fit couldn’t you know play at the intensity they do nowadays but I think probably you know there’s a load of professional footballers that have a career in football but the drop out after
Two or three years and I think it takes an awful lot to have longevity and you have to know what your skills is what you’re good at what you can’t do and I think a lot of people think that they can
Do certain things and they get surrounded by there are a poor network of people who um you know make themselves feel bigger and better than what they actually are and they get some bad advice and they
End up falling out the game and I ended up you know moving around the country and making a large number of football league appearances because I knew what I could do and what I couldn’t do and a
Lot of managers and coaches would accept that and and plan forly forged a career do you think that’s missed in in a way obviously there’s a little bit more of awareness of Dropout rates and and all those different aspects that you mentioned you even relocation and kind of the mental side
You know obviously as football fans and football supporters and coaches it’s kind of glamorized to some extent but obviously in terms of the football league do you think that’s missed in terms of the the uh vulnerability of potential players and and kind of getting contracts and and having the
Opportunity to play uh could be very limited in comparison to the top what what are your thoughts on that as a as a whole I I I totally agree I think you know to be a lower league footballer you
Know everyone you know friends people the think oh football great you’re a professional footballer but you’re on probably an average salary compared to most people in the country you’re not getting paid the greatest and you know one of the issues I probably post sort of 28 29 was that I was only
Around oneye contract and literally what you know you get paid from you know the moment the season starts until the last um the last day in June but was a whole host of clubs I play for they
Wouldn’t tell you till the season finished until you were Midway through May or at least early June so one of the problems is you’ve got bills coming out you know left right and setting there paying mortgages and you you don’t know whether you need a new club whether they’re going to resigning and
I tell you in two weeks later your money stops no I don’t know any other industry would let you get away with that um but in terms of some of the other stuff I think you really have to
Be mentally strong though because you’re moving all over the club you’ve got to settle you may have to upo your kids they going to a different school you know your family wife your partner all of those things just get missed out um and you think as a professional footballer you’re in a
Club potentially training hour this could be anything from you know stereotypically could be from 8 till 3 okay that’s fine so you actually to spend more time away from the club where you honestly don’t know the area you don’t know your family can’t come and see your friends don’t come
And see it it takes a whole level of Readjustment um and it’s not too bad you know if you’re playing for a Premier League club and you you know I get people now play Ware offices who look for schools
That take wi shopping they do this do that now you’re playing at League one League two Club not cting house chance you’re getting that support in terms of obviously reflection of obviously your experience and what you just said then was it was there anyone that that kind of mentored you was
There anyone that guided you during that process and some of the lessons learned that enabled you to maybe transfer that into so obviously your your profession now kind of go on to what you do now but just on reflection of your playing career is is there anything that that stands out just
On that um I definitely didn’t have a mental you know I’ve still got some very well fully enough three of my ex notan Forest apprentices who are we we all went on to be professional footballers and
We D Forest but I still talk to them on a regular basis so they’ve always been a good sounding board but the the thing the penny dropped for me um and I’ve told this story before I ended up signing for
Plymouth I i’ had a couple of loans Bells there I signed under Kevin Hodges in the summer of I think it was 2000s I think it was um and we were Ted around as a promotion you know aiming team um
From from one he now le to we didn’t have the greatest of STS we running out in the playoffs and probably fell away to wa night Kevin Hodges got sacked that signed a two-year contract Mark
Um W moved down with me uh and Paul Stewart came in now within a week he pulled me into his office and he just said listen you’re not mind to Center forward and I’m going to bring a couple in um you
Can go and I was just astounded you know this was like October time and I said I’ve literally just moved my whole life down it’s been three or four months and you’re telling me I can go and he
Went yeah um so that that was a tough one but it gets a little bit wor so the following week he was new the club we had the the old fashioned firsty versus reserves on the stadium pitch all the local
Media and press were invited I was in the reserves ended up as always happens in these games we end up winning 3-2 I get hattick it calls me into his office so I thought brilliant I’ve changed
His mind I’m back in the team in the squad you know Happy Days pulled me in his office and he just said you’ve embarrassed me don’t ever to do that to me again he went don’t you’re not allowed
To turn off training anymore you can just rock for 18 months and pretty much that’s what happened so I couldn’t even go into training never made a first team appearance from there on in and that
Was probably the hardest time in my life and that was where I thought well what am I going to do if football’s not on you for me now and you know I’ve got 10 years into it how am I going to pay
The bills how I’m going to pay the mortgage what’s my next career so from then on in I just decided I need to prepare myself as best as possible so soon as I could I went on Thea for being with a PFA and
From that moment every single year I tried to get as many different strings to the bow as it could so when my football career finished and I retired I’d be in a more employable position in terms of
That experience did that experience maybe inspired you inspire you to be a coach in terms of a better nature and kind of give something impact to the game in a different way obviously from from your your playing career and obviously the experience that you’ve just mentioned was was that kind of
The incentive of okay I need to maybe do this and funnel my energy into this but also prove a point in a way was that kind of the thinking there I’m just intrigued on that that that well well you’re
Right with both there um definitely wanted to prove a point because I knew that I was good enough to be a professional football I knew I was good enough to to play in League two standard but
He’s football you know people have opinions and they come and go so I definitely wanted to prove a point to him and I think I did that you know a longer ter but you know I’m a big believer and
You know treat people how you want to be treated yourself and I think I’ve been the type of coach and Coach developer that you know sometimes even in my position they sometimes have to give some
Bad news you know but there’s a nice way to do it there a you can tell the truth and tell it in the right manner but you don’t have to be like Paul story was to me and I dare say some of the elives
That came out of his mouth at the same time so I’m a big believer and not treat people as you want to be treated so in terms of obviously you mentioned um earlier that the game has changed
Since you played how do you think coaching has changed in from that experience of you enrolling onto the ufb license and obviously being involved within the educational process um during that transition for you from playing to kind of coming into coaching and the evolvement of the game today
How do you think coaching has developed over time is there anything that stands out on reflection um massively I mean I was really fortunate I look back in some of the managers I had particularly Nan Forest uh Brian kff was my first year was an apprentice and then we had Frank Clark Ron
Atkinson for a brief tenure Dave Basset David pla came in Stuart Pierce had it for a few games and I look back you know Frank f g with my debut in the Premier League and I love the guy and still speak
To him um but it was very old fashioned manager you know they’d come down training sometimes they’d still be in the suit H the coaches would take everything it was pretty traditional back
Then it was 442 the only variation would be 433 um it was you do it this way and you’re not even asking a question um and the other days if you weren’t doing tactical elements of the game it
Was pretty much you know small-sided games F sides bit of finishing bit of possession that was it you never worked on any patterns or any shape or did any video analysis you know that just wasn’t part
And parcel of it where now I look at you know what the players have at their disposal you know the the the money that’s you know rushing around in the game and it it’s gone to a whole
New level now um so I think coaching’s come on not tenold it’s just gone through the roof and I think perhaps with the education now I think with the help of the internet people can see what’s going
On it’s quite easy now to go and look at YouTube videos look at the top manager coaching there’s various platforms where you can see certain things and you can be like my dad was back you know sort
Of 40 years ago you can start to learn and educate yourself and it’s I love a lot easier I think it’s not easier nowadays that’s the wrong thing to say but you can educate yourself more just on that
Then so there’s obviously that argument that you have to be a player to be a manager and there’s obviously the kind of debate on whether that’s right or wrong and you mentioned the accessibility to to education and coaching and there’s so much out there that you can absorb but your
Thoughts on that in terms of that transition from from player to manager and is is is it relevant or is it is there kind of key uh lessons missed within that I’m just intrigued on what you think
On that as a concept and whether that’s a myth or we can learn and obsorb and be like Jose Mourinho and interpretator and apply that into to other avenues later I’m just I’m just interested in what you think about the value of of playing the game and and whether that’s aligns with current
Practices at its best um well the short answer is no I don’t think you have to be a former player at all um do I think it helps yeah I think it gives you an advantage um you know you think of some of
The best managers around like Mourinho klopp Wenger all former footballers and all former professional footballers but they didn’t have the Stellar careers that a lot of other you know Top Class managers had um but there’s an argument now exactly where players transition
Some of the lads that I work with and some of the girls that I work with all of a sudden you fall out of professional football and you transition pretty early you’re going back to the bottom WR
You know bottom wrong of the ladder where you can be a non-player or played Grassroots or whatever level all of a sudden you could have a mass 15 20 years of experience through your 20s through your 30s so at the same same time you get a professional professional football transitioning
At say 35 years old quite crudely you’re way behind the non-player absolutely way behind you know in terms of transferring that knowledge understanding how to manage players a group of people session design practice leadership all of these things that we talk about then miles away
From it now what they have got is in their own head you know Jack Wilshire is a prime example so I work with Jack fairly regularly and some of the information he’s gotten that he possesses about the games that he played about you know Barcelona and champions league and Premier League it’s all
Sted he said he’s brilliant now the challenge is for him to to transfer that on MCG grass and to try and help those players and that’s not an easy process and I think some of the some of the other
Coaches who haven’t had the careers that he’s had and haven’t played professional football a lot of them are ahead of people like that because they just had the time and experience on the grass in terms of that process then you mentioned obviously Jack Wilshire that how was that for him in terms
Of applying maybe some of the lessons he’s learned as a player into maybe he’s Academy team and I’m sure there’s many examples for example my team Birmingham city Rooney there at the moment and obviously they have their standards of being at that elite club playing with the best of the best
And then obviously they might not be working with players that might not be at that level yet but they’re trying to apply some of those values and those work ethic principles that they might have learned from other managers into their practice H how how is that in terms of players using that
Information that experience and applying it is it is it straightforward or is it obviously complex things there in terms of how Learners learn differently and different stages of development I’m just intrigued on that um I think I think it’s a challenge for everyone I don’t think it’s TR for
Players like that I think you know potentially what he may have when I first started to work with Jack I was another coach who was obviously in placed before him and they got used to his methods his practices the way he wants to work and I don’t think it matters if you’re working
In youth football or senior football you pretty quickly have to try and turn those around to the way you want to work and to get them to understand your values and beliefs your philosophy the way you want to play the game and obviously at First Team level you know that’s absolutely you know
Exaggerated because you’ve got to get a result in the next game now in Youth Development in Academy football rightly or wrongly it’s not about results although some clubs will say is so you’ve got a longer period of time to to change the players Uh current processes and methods that they’re going
Through but um it’s not an easy process at all and I think that’s where the challenge lies for people like that it’s they just expect and again to use J Jack and example he expects the players to train
Intensity and an intelligence what they had at Arsenal thsy they you you know we all working 16 17 18 year more players they just haven’t got it and that’s sometimes a frustration um and at
First team level you want to go in you want to get instant results sometimes you want to change the playing style overnight with a group of players who can’t execute it and then you know players fans media everyone’s jumping on the bandwagon like they AR game people sometimes don’t know it’s
Impossible to change you overnight it generally is so um it’s not an easy process at all you think managers should be given time time then in general obviously there’s big pressures and in the Premier League and you see sackings um not as frequent this year by the way but previously there’s been
Sackings you think there’s there should be a minimum time frame then in terms of applying that philosophy and and adjusting kind of coaching practices obviously you mentioned Wilshire but I’m sure there’s a range of different other people that you mentor and how do you think that worked
In terms of that time frame because obviously ran was built in a day I’m just interested on what you think of that um it’d be interesting to see it implemented and it has been spoken about um but I
Can’t ever see it com in I don’t know how it come in but you’re exactly right you know some managers and coaches I’ve worked with over the past few years you know they look ahead and you’re possibly
Working one two three transfer Windows away um now you feel you know you working at a club in the Premier League to hear say someone like Chelsea who last year had players on eight-year contracts you’ve got players on four five six-year contracts if you don’t want those types of players or they
Don’t fit into your game sty or they don’t buy into it or they want to move on you can’t shift them because they’re on x amount of pound per week and they’ll just sit there and go I’m not
Going so you can only have 25 in your Premier League Squad if you’re in the Champion League that’s a diff it’s such a a brutal world and now granted League you know Championship League
One League two is not like that but I think you know you walk into a new job any job in the world it takes time to readjust you know think about I said about a former player a manager still got to
Relocate still got to go through all those issues sometimes they’re inheriting staff so they’ve got to educate the current staff sometimes you’re able to bring in one or two but to take all that on board and to change everything it’s an absolute mindfield so I I would be intrigued to see if that
Would come in in the future but I I think it would genuinely help because then managers and coaches wouldn’t be so rushed to to get into the results so so on that then so you mentioned the different facets that coach and a manager might have in terms of contracts inheritance staff Etc
What things do you do then Steve to to develop coaches in that ways or anything that stands out obviously from an educational point of view there might be an emphasis on Technical and tactical knowledge but you mentioned all those different social and psychological factors that
Uh that might be apparent what what do you do to approach maybe a coach that needs support within that is there anything that stands out in terms of you developing the manager and and the coach
Within that area or is it down to them I’m just interested on on how you apply your practice that way um first of all it’s about educating them sometimes they don’t know um you know we
Use the phrase quite often you don’t know what you don’t know um and you know some some players who are going through their current coaching qualifications at the moment well most of them
If not all of them you know if we had if I took you know a UA for a license course we run one for senior professional players men and women probably 90% of that course would have aspiration to become
A senior head coach and manager now now that’s fine statistically they’re not all going to do that they understand that but they all want to do it um but to give you an indication of what that
Made believe you know our our job is to try and educate and to say well where do you think you’re going to get your first job why do you think you’re going to get your first job well I’m
You know think about what you said a former player well that doesn’t make one bit of difference and it doesn’t matter if you’ve got 15 forward players going for the same job no you may have your A for
A license or your pro license whatever it is you both hang those on the table so you’re all on the level of playing field and then some of the education around the clubs now some of them still
Think that they can go into a league two League one Championship Club you know can bring in five staff six staff what are you going to bring in some of them are scratching go know never
Thought about it well you need to think about it because you know that ever happens and even going back right to the start I I never had an interview you don’t in football you don’t have an interview
To to sign for a club you just you know play a watch and Coach managers watches you nowadays it watching video clips Scout reports youai now I had my first job interview at 36 years old and that
Was scared the living daylight out me so all of a sudden all of these former players or non-players particularly the players I work with u and coaches transitioned they have to go for an interview process now we’ve actually done it we set up a hypothetical interview process at C’s partk
We had some former players come we had current managers some recruit specialist at fahr let me tell you it wasn’t great because it was the first interview and we didn’t expect them to be good but
What we were try to educate them from you can’t turn to an interview like that and perform like that because you’ll just get left out the Building compared to someone else who’s been coaching 15 20 years so there’s a number of different things we try and do to educate them you know interview
Preparation upskilling them on on it in general laptop skills because some of them don’t possess that um media training being able to presenting to a board or for a job interview and sometimes just understanding the cultural landscape so you know you you’ve played for a club uh sorry
You you go and Coach a manager Club somewhere in the Northeast it’s probably a hardworking um you know sort of lower middle class sort of bracket if you go in there and you start playing a different
Style and saying certain things in the press and I can think of some managers this year who’ve said things Against the Grain and what the football club is built on probably not going to last very
Long so we’re try and do an awful lot of things to be honest with you away from the grass you know we do obviously do the technical tactical work on the grass we do a lot off the grass as well
What would the manager’s interview look like then Steve what is the process sir it’s never the same quite simply it’s never the same so we’ve had a number of different people come and tell us
What their experiences were uh I I just going to uh a coach today who’s had an informal chat with the club um so it can be literally let’s have a conversation on the telephone first through that’s probably through a third party it made his and his informal let’s had a chat over coffee
Could be in a hotel it could be in a coffee shop could be in the service station um it may be the polar opposite you may be straight on the short list of three you’ve got to go and present to a
Panel of 10 people in in a in a boardroom or in a hotel where it’s your philosophy how you going to evolve and changeing the squad Etc there’s no interview process I know has ever been the
Same and sometimes they’re repeated so you got to go back you got to do to the owner then you got to go back to the the leadership group from the players it’s it’s a real challenge to to try
And build coaches and educate them around this topic because we don’t know what the interview process is going to be clubex so if they if I get fun say right I’ve got an interview there I’m like
No idea what it would be like so we just try and give them as rounded and perspective as they can possibly be and in terms of obviously the process of players going into those environments and you said you know players might be novice in that respect and you mentioned your own experience
Um obviously players might have social capital might they’ll have clearly economic capital from obviously where they they they’ve played in their career and going into a kind of a job interview did did they under underestimate the process or is there any arrogance to the process I’m just
Intrigued on what the players think going into that that process as a whole because obviously they’ve got um a Persona and a kind of a an opinion based on their playing career does that kind of help or benefit them going into to those conversations I’m just interested on the overall
Outlook towards it then I don’t think I don’t think necessarily it helps him no their playing status and their pedigree as a player gives them a level of credibility and rightly or wrongly they got profile so you know why do former players go into you know media and commentating because the
Former players and they’ve got a profile and people think oh they know what they talk about and they’ played the game at that level that’s no different to you know going for an interview as a coach or a manager you probably getting selected because a you’re a decent whatever that means
Coach as it stands but your playing profile will probably get those ahead of some other people rightly or wrongly now I think some of them like said they just underestimate the importance of that interview and what it looks like so some people that I know of in the past sort of five 10
Years you know literally rocked up no preparation thinking well I’ll just wing it I know my stuff I’m player X I had a great playing career and I’ve lost out on the jobs and I think now you have to
Be prepared with as much detail as possible um I know coaches and managers now have gone in with the nin to-day plan I’ve given it to every single member they printed out they’ve gone through the
Playing style what they’re doing tracks for window one two three we’ll get rid of this player and you know I’m not saying now got Le the job either but the level of detail you have to go into
Now is is fascinating for certain clubs but don’t get me wrong sometimes it is an informal chat and a discussion and then it’s like okay you’ve got the job so that’s still existing as well what are your thoughts on the current state of of English coaches at the moment obviously the premier league
Has been peppered with um foreign influence and it’s opinion from my personal opinion I think it’s better the game but I’m intrigued on what you think on the current state of English managers coming through the system and obviously represented England or the English clubs at at the
Top of um the Premier League the championship Etc obviously there’s there seems to be and you’ll know better than me Steve a bit more of a younger influence um in terms of younger coaches the championship obviously that might have a knock on effect into the Premier League um currently but
What what are your thoughts on the whole landscape of of uh education from an English perspective at the moment I I genuinely think it’s as good as it’s said been and I think it’s improving and getting better all the time um you know you’re right we’ve got a whole host of young managers
Now who aren’t naive enough I believe to think that you can just have a playing career and you can rock up on the pitch and you know you deliver a session that’s far from it I think one of the
Things that that people struggle with in the early days is actually the the effort and the time and the commitment to become a manager you know those playing days of rocking in at a certain time and
Finish it that totally changes all of a sudden you working 12h hour days and some people struggle but some people absolutely love it and they’ll they’ll do it forever um someone you know like to Steven schumacker today who’s apparently goingon to get the Stoke job from and leave Plymouth he was on
Our Pro license a couple of years ago and and he was brilliant another prime example is and Barry who was on the pro license and then Frank Lampard gave the job Chelsea he now working over in Munich with Thomas Tel there’s a whole heap of young managers out there absolutely brilliant I think
What we need to do is have success though in the Premier League I think that’s where the problem lies um you know unfortunately someone like you know Steven Gerard Frank Lampard some of that best England players John Terry they they’ve never well John hasn’t had the opportunity yet
But Frank and Steve have never really it’s probably really critical of me to say this because I’ve never been there but there haven’t been the success that I think everyone thought they would be in the Premier League which I think is a travesty um you know Gran Potter
Everyone was desperate for him to be a success at Chelsea because I think we need someone to win a trophy um and then I think we may get a trend of clubs looking at it thinking oh we have got good
Young English managers either working in this country or overseas because there’s a lot over there and then I think the trend will change but some of the some of the people I work with absolutely brilliant they just need an opportunity now sometimes it’s to rubber the green sometimes
It’s it’s an owner it will give you a little bit more money it’s one of those things that’s going to change the balance so do you think then The Stereotype is changing to some extent in a way that again that kind of traditional English manager is very physical orientated
Long ball methods that have obviously worked in the Premier League many years back do you think that is changed then or or he’s continuing to to change in terms of the perceptions of English managers and and kind of their their influence on football as a whole yeah absolutely we get um you
Know the St georgees we get a lot of fortunate to watch a lot of the development teams so from the the under 15s pretty much right the way through the 21s there’s a lot of fixtures there and you
Know it’s been you know obviously well reported over the last five six seven eight years how well we’ve done in those younger teams winning various tournaments and when we go and see them play Spain France Brazil Argentina their coaches are astounded at how a good our players are but B
What we do in terms of tactically on the pitch and there asking questions about this or how’ you coach them what you do now across Europe I wouldn’t necessarily say the rest of the world
Because we don’t play them too often but a lot of Europe are looking and wanting to come over to us visiting clubs seeing how we work because we are so dominant you know particularly at those age groups in in international football now under 21s went and won the European championships in
The summer which again was was was credit to Lee Cary at the staff and I think as I said countries and clubs across Europe are looking at us and thinking well what are you doing particularly
Year academies so a lot of the coaches in the academies where they’re doing a lot of the good work and you know bleeding these players through eventually go and play for England so in terms of
That then so you mentioned coaches well we as as well you as as an England um employee as well as me being a England fan Etc that we want longevity we want opportunities we want um to give English
Manager or English coaches their opportunity to kind of see the fruits of their labor within their practice what do you think’s important then in terms of skills and attributes to have longevity or have those experiences is there anything that you think stands out in terms of the qual in terms
Of the quality of a coach that you think is is the key key ingredients to to be successful in that sense just a reflection of maybe the coaches that you work with is there any key element that
You think is is relevant to to that and how that might be improvised in the future um I think have to be tactically Adept um now with some of the former players who who’ve played at the highest
Level they’ve had experience of of doing that and executing that as a player themselves so you know Jack playing under arson wer at arsal um lighton Ban’s playing in the Premier League over 500 times under Kuman and Martinez and various other managers now had they’ve had their experiences as
A player and I think what people like Jack Elaine are doing and other coaches like that I learned their trade away from the spotlight and the medium intrusion and the results business and they’re starting to understand how they can evolve and change teams during the game now whether that’s
A result of a of a result or a goal against or a goal for they’re now utilizing various formations understanding how to get those messages acrossing players make it simple for them to understand you
Know again I allude back to the time as my player was a 442 that was it the only change he make was a change in Personnel where now even under 18 16s 14s people are changing shapes at the drop
Of that we had the fun love gr Potter event with us last week and uh he was talking about how he was flipping from I think it was a 43 three to a three box three and the team he was up against
At the time came up to me just said we didn’t even realize it was actually Steve Davis who was caretaker manager at wolves and he was like I didn’t even realize you Chang until 10 minutes
Then we were changing and then all of a sudden you have changed again so we had to change something and the game just changes all the time and I think players are a a lot more intelligent than what
They were nowadays because they have to be because the way the games involved so um I think first and foremost you’ve got to be tactically adop because if you don’t get if you don’t get results then you’re not going to have any longevity anyway and all the other facets are important just bubbling
Away behind the scenes they do you think that will change and modify the game in a way I know that sounds really silly for me to ask but if you think for example the amount of substitutes that
You’re allowed and the the Inplay possession is a key key emphasis of the Premier League at the moment do you think the game will change in a way again it sounds really silly to say but it sounds a little bit like an American model of kind of having pauses and changing shape and
Bringing different phases of play on to the pitch at a certain period did did you think that might lean that way in the future I’m just interested on on how that went again opinionated question
No I I would say I hope not because I think one of the one of the good things about our game is its fluidity it’s intensity it’s 100 m hour it’s end to end and when you you know when you watch a
Good game on TV or live it’s absolutely brilliant and I think that’s because of how fast paac it is now the game even from what I played it was crazy about he can remember me just kick the ball back
To the goalkeeper and he could pick it up and he could he could throw out you could kick it back and he could pick it up you could do it 50 times in a game to waste time now the introduction of
That rule the pass back rule has changed it massively but if we’ have said that back at the time you’d have gone that that’s not going to that’s not going to be introduced he’s not
Going to be given the go go CH to G now you’ve got the the number of substitutes you’ve got I think a because of the number of squads but B you know sort of what I mentioned before that absolutely finely tuned athletes and the injuries because of the intensity the distance to covering
The high speeded runs xels DS Etc they have to you know you’re playing 56 games plus in the championship if you do okay competitions that’s incredible so the brutality of That League you’ve got to make changes and I think that the more substitutes on the bench allow for that but I
Do think we’ll get to a stage heaven forbid where it will become like you said Americanized I think the maybe specialist substitutes that will come on you know we’ve almost got them now with setpiece Specialists you’ve got setpiece coaches I could see possibly TI outs coming in
Heaven forbid but it it happens organically at the moment you’ll see a player chucking injury down in the first half halfway through he’s got cramp and set all the players come to The Dugout on the side of the pitch because he’s getting treat for two minutes it’s almost happening now and I
Think with the way the ownership is changing with much more American owners with you know even the last TV deal recently it’s increased again it’ be like I I just don’t want to think about it but it’d be like American football you know there there’s a break for two minutes there’s an advert
On it comes back and I hope we don’t get to that stage but there’s more and more changes happening all the time it seems to me I’m interested on how coaches develop themselves in a role then Steve so
Obviously for example coming into the Christmas period I think a game every three days in in in the the football in pyramid um Caravel Cup today for example uh Premier League you know you know you know what I mean in terms of the schedule um how the coaches develop themselves then in terms
Of their role is there anything that you kind of advise coaches to do during the process of being in a certain position to develop themselves because it’s fast-paced and they might not have opportunity to maybe think critically around certain things cuz they’re on to the next is
There anything that you might advise a coach or a manager to do to to ensure that they stay up to date and stay you know at the best of their their abilities to perform and Excel at their Club yes
I’ll try I think it’s really difficult um I think first and foremost a number of experienced coaches and managers have said to me you’ve got to look after yourself first and that’s in terms of you know physically and mentally so yes the days are ridiculously long and you’re absorbed in in and
Preparation and training analysis but you need to cre a window of opportunity to work out you need to get some physical benefits because I think the fitter you are the more sharper you are you make better cognitive decisions than when you’re fatigued you’re tired you you got to run down
You’re sleeping in the hotel you’re traveling on a plane that’s when your decision starts to you know unravel a little bit so physically I think is important and I think mentally I think it’s such a
Challenge to be on that um Merry Go Round of game rest game m St plus one game it’s a nightmare but sometimes you have to get off the hamster wheel um and what we encourage a lot of coaches do and what
We do with with certain individuals we take them to see different places well listen just come for a day here and watch these work and see if you pick up and anything the way they do things the
Way to talk to the players the way training is delivered that’s a challenge in itself uh and I think to go and visit sometimes other Industries and organizations you know there’s a lot of transference between obviously other sports but yeah teams sorry in Industries and organizations
Outside of sports you can learn a lot from so to give an example we went to the to the raw College of Music and we took a group of coaches to go and see them work and the a the artificial
Intelligence and the way that the um musicians training for the length of period of time they put them in front of a an animated audience they were putting boxes they end have to perform like an individual and have to do solo performers and I’ve got perform as part of an orchestra on in
Front of the family and trying to talk to the uh specialists at the raw College of Music who train those I said well that’s our job to get perform as a solo and part of a team to understand that
Training and commitments and there’s so much transference the more you get out of there but the brutality of football needs well when did you do that because it’s 46 weeks in the year then you’ve only got six weeks off probably going to try and get away with the family and then you
Just exhausted and then you’re back so as much as we would encourage it to go in obviously go on study trips and that doesn’t mean abroad or anywhere fancy it just means go watch someone work down another club in your local area but people haven’t got the time to do it is there
A more openness towards looking at different Industries and different ways of leadership and management and again it’s interesting you say that I was speaking to a rugby league coach who sort well I say coach his role is within kind of The Rehabilitation head injuries and he there’s
A a lot of people within football coming to check out rugby league cope is certain assets or aspects within that is is that is that something that’s coming along more popular now in terms of that sharing and that Community Practice to develop people that way yeah yeah absolutely we the rugby
Thing we go into Harlequin fairly regularly we got a good relationship and connection with it and in football you know probably commonly known that footballers don’t last too long in analysis meetings the one to be short Punchy 5 10 15 minutes max because players lose concentration
And start thinking of things you go to a rugby meeting players are going in notebooks they taking notes the meetings are lasting an hour and they are absolutely avidly looking and concentrating what’s being delivered to them now why is that the case rugby can do it in football C but it’s
The same thing um you know the way they work out the intensity they work out in the gym now granted it’s a different sport sometimes don’t quite see that certain clubs but you right in terms of the leadership the players look after themselves they they police themselves they police the dressing
Room and football does do that in in certain areas but it doesn’t in others so I think there’s a hell of a lot to be observed and learned from going te other sports absolutely and he definitely now
More welcoming because listen I’m not a rugby fan I don’t really know much about rugby I could go in and watch the first te make a tell me all their secrets what’s it going to matter they AR going
To do anything with it anyway so it definitely is and I think that would only help all sports go and develop and educate each other anyway so just just on reflection of some of the coaches that you work with you mentioned a few former players but is there anyone that stands out in
Terms of someone that’s really impressed you is is there anyone that on reflection of your time within position you’re in now that’s you’ve gone well that that’s really made me think about the game differently or it’s really stood out in terms of the practice they put on um I think that they
Probably all impressed me in some sort of way um especially because you work with them over a period of time you start to see the particularly strong attributes to to their coaching practices and the leaders ship skills um I mean currently with a International Group Play to coach group
That I work with I think you know Jack wilsh and Leon Baines are are in strong positions could be linked with first team head coach jobs and I think that’s um you know credit to them really that
They’re been you know I saw Leon was linked to the K job today and now I did actually speak to Le he said I don’t know where that’s coming from but you know him him being linked to certain jobs Jack
Was linked to the Colorado rapping job not so long back I think because of the good work that they’re doing and because what you get now is all the social media clubs now have got cameras following
The story people all around the world can see what they’re doing on the grass um I think those two in particular from from the small group that I work with particular I think we will go places I really
Do um but constantly on the pro license we get a number of different coaches and managers that come through it and then some time across that course they absolutely W you they really do um I have
Unfortunate and privileg to be in that position but I think yeah those two in particular but I think it be harsh for me to go through a names and the others too did did you Embrace that experience
Then Steve did you kind of sit back and go well like I I am learning off these people from their experiences and is there is there ever kind of disagreement and clashes in terms of maybe philosophies and Outlook towards the game I bet that’s something that you Embrace really as as a
Developer to kind of absorb knowledge that way and make you challenge yourself in in in sense yeah that absolutely it’s every time I’m on a course or I’m working with people I’m learning all the time to give you an example we did something uh on the pro license where we actually went
Um over to I can’t remember where it was but we looked at the under 21 European championships I think it was see I think it was in Romania last year and anyway Ashley Cole was was part of the
Staff and he was talking about um defending the defending the wide player and attributes you’ve got to do and all of a sudden just just as as off the cuff as anything he went into detail about
Five minutes AG He Man marked raldo out the game when he was playing through against Portugal but the level of detail he went into and he starts getting the tactics B out he you know you like I’ve got goosebumps now was just unbelievable anyone was in that room he was Goldust now you
Can’t not learn from people like that when they talk um so so it’s brilliant but to go back to what he said at the end absolutely there has to be har conversations at times because when you’re talking about tactics and strategies and you’re talking about people who potentially may work
At the highest LEL now Ashley obviously went work with Frank Chelsea and Edon so ultimately his jobs on the line so sometimes we’ve got to you know we can’t just say oh Ashley Co great we’ve sometimes
Got to give him some hard words and say now that’s not good enough or we don’t think that work or or we think you’re wrong in this aspect so we have to because that’s part you know part partal man
J so for those that might be listening or watching this podcast Steve they might be inspired to to to be a coach or they they have a dream ambition to to really give the discipline of coaching the best
Of their ability and try and potentially um coach at the highest level what advice would you give to them is there anything that stands out in terms of reflection of your time as a player as well
As a developer that that is is is vital to maybe share with listeners so they can be inspired I think fundamentally it’s gaining as many different experiences as you can um you know I think some
Of the best Co that I’ve seen and work with who haven’t been former players I’ve been those that have coached a variety of Ages and abilities now that’s a skill in itself so if I could go in and
Coach a group of under sixes coach a group of uh women under 16s under NES people with disabilities if you can manage groups like that and you can put on a session and help develop those players
That’s a sign of a good coach I think what we do get is some real specialist coaches who work with particular age groups and that’s brilliant but you go and pick those up and drop them in an environment and now they absolutely lost so I think gaining as many different experiences you
Can with different age groups different abilities and I think don’t be afraid to try things now if you’re working in development football and it’s not results but you know it’s also some the break with yesterday about the under eights stuff on social media a parent wrote criticizing the coach
At under eights I’m like come on it’s just about the kids having a kick around and having a bit of fun at that age but I think you’ve got to try and not be afraid to develop the players but but try
Things try different formations try new things on the pitch don’t be afraid to make mistakes because it’s the only way we there um that that that would be a summary if you may very quickly very quickly
And just on that then and we kind of coming into the Final Phase of our conversation what you think the future of coaching will look like then you mentioned obviously the different age groups and we spoke earlier around the different potential roles that might be apparent substitute coach
Throwing coaches as well become popular at the moment where where do you think the the industry will go within football or or maybe other sports as well around coaching practice is there anything that stands out in terms of its advancement and in its Improvement in the future and I
Definitely think it will become more academic I definitely think that I think a lot of coaches and and managers will will say certain things and discuss certain things but what you’ve got now is particularly inmy from under 21 stand you’ve got a whole host of academics that have gone to the
University got Masters in coaching I think now come in and actually have the the knowledge to back up their discussions or not and to challenge some of these coaches so I think we’ll get a lot more coaches that will come out me the world of Academia and I think hopefully what we may
Get is people challenging themselves and going abroad you know I think we’ve got I think it’s something like 3,300 jobs you know parttime and full-time in the acmy across this country but I think there’s a more more coaches that shown an ability and a bravery to go and Coach abroad and
Give it a go um Steve bal’s a prime example at the moment who’s working in uh LEL in Belgium or Mark Jackson who’s currently on that Pro license he’s just gone out to Australia uh I think we’ll
Get more people like that you know players do it you know players now going to play in different countries where 10 years ago it it wasn’t the norm at all I think coach as the manager will
Do that and I think it will only help me in this game I really do and obviously the advancement of the women’s game and even Saudi Arabia there could be even more expansion there in terms of
That yeah well well like it I think that wants to keep an eye on because if they are going to get the World Cup which it seems as though they will do which is you know just over 10 years
Away or whatever that’s wherever that is they’re just going to grow like an absolute Juggernaut so um you know there’s a whole host of coaches in the Far East now and I think South America will becomeing I think you’ll just you’ll just become a global isn’t this where coaches will be picked
Up dropped off you know I think you know look at someone like Manchester City and City football group and they got their clubs that are positioned all around the world they’re so far ahead in terms
Of the volume of clubs that they got and they can just move coaches wherever they want and I think that’s what we’ll potentially see a coach may be in South South South America one season the next
Season he may be in Europe the next season he may be in Africa I think that’s the way it will go interesting so we’ll kind of keep an eye on that in terms of how that develops again it’s an interesting concept to think how Global the actual game is going especially around coach
Education and the advancement within that my my final question to you then Steve is just obviously in terms of what we’ve spoke about today over last 50 minutes is bit of a personal one and it’s how would you like to be remembered in the in the area of coaching all
Um genuinely just someone that tried his best to help people and uh I always I’ve always thought when I’m retired whatever age that is and I’m an old man if I’m walking down the street and
I’ve and I walk past someone that I’ve coached I’d love them just to come over and just say Hi how are you you know back for helping me in try to Improvement I think that’s it I think that’s
What I’d like to Remember by just someone who did the best to try and help people and I’m a people person I love being around I love trying to help people in whatever format that may be so I think that’s probably it yeah no delusions or Grande or anything like
That just a good people person that tries to help excellent well we’ll finish there Steve I just want to say thank you for your for your time and your Insight obviously in terms of your values and your expression to help people and develop individuals whether that’s on in
In coaching whether that’s maybe in Academia whether that’s us developing maybe the whole footballing uh industry uh is very impressive and I just want to wish you well in terms of your future plans and good luck with with your current plans as well um but more importantly
Thank you for these conversation and uh speak soon no problem thank you [Music] Christie
