The Upshot: European Roundtable

Josh Mansfield is joined by Juha Kytö, DGPT Europe’s Media Director, and Powergrip CEO Erno Väyrynen to discuss the announcement that PDGA Worlds is coming to Finland in 2025, the growth of the sport in the Nordic countries, why Europeans are getting more competitive on the Pro Tour, and more.

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Welcome to the upshot UL world’s podcast about the latest in the dis golf world I’m your host Josh Mansfield and today we have a special show for you it is holiday Roundtable time and we are going to be talking everything European dis golf I’ve got two illustrious guests here with me today

Uh coming over and making time for us over in Finland big thanks to both of them let me introduce now uh we’ve got UA UA CA the media director for disc golf pro tour Europe UA thanks so much for being on the program yeah thanks for having having me

Here once again and also joining us arono verin CEO of powergrip disc golf Aro thanks so much for being on the program uh pleasure to be here thank you tros so the purpose of today’s Roundtable we’re going to be having a discussion about as many topics as we

Can get to about European disc golf uh and I’m really looking forward because I’ve got some real experts in European disc golf here with me today uh yuss maresma uh unable to join us unfortunately and and we wish him he’s not feeling well today so we wish him a

Speedy recovery and uh well let’s jump into it I I think we have to start with what is probably one of the big announcements and not barely the lead here 2025 PDGA World Championships is going to be held in Europe uh that will move the European open over to Estonia

And then Nokia Finland will be hosting the World Championships I’ll start with you UA what do you think that means to Europe European disc golf and kind of the Disc Golf Scene as a whole to have Europe hosting its first world championships yeah it’s uh one of the

Biggest things we have uh have kind of of received back uh on this golf as as as looking as an European perspective uh it’s it’s a it’s a long work like uh what yusi has done and all of us but especially yusi has done with with his team with European open and and

Everything and I have to say finally we get the worlds to Europe and especially it’s Finland there right now there are no better play is to host the worlds then Nokia and T the combined combined combined courses there and and uh the team over there of course can

Handle it and they they they have the whole Finland and most of Europe behind them supporting supporting to make it all happen so it’s a it is not only like us this thing or european open team thing or Finland thing it’s it’s the whole Europe who is behind the uh behind

The event and and I’m I’m super glad it finally finally came up to to Finland and on like topped with the having another major and in in talin Estonia which is you know Estonia has been blooming as well and and the the lau uh Bak at the S Festival arounds is a

Fantastic place to have that as well so 25 is going to be awesome awesome here in total I mean it really it it feels like it’s something that’s been a long time coming European open is is always been one of the top majors at least in my opinion to watch The Spectators the

Energy I’m really grateful then that that not only does Worlds get to take place uh in Finland but that you also we have have the European open that’s going to be happening as you mentioned in Estonia as well uh definitely an exciting time I don’t know you’re not

Near you’re not as involved on the tour side but from your on just the business perspective fans interaction with Disc Golf Scene how how significant have you heard people talking about about this and and what is kind of the general feeling around the continued increasing of like majors and participation of

Professional dis golf in Europe fins don’t show their excitement too much but I’ve seen a lot of excitement during the last few days when we heard about the news and I can I can back y’s words um I agree with everything that he said and

Uh we don’t even know how big of a thing this is for Europe and especially for the Nordic countries and Estonia where where this is uh primarily been growing for the past 10 to 20 years it’s it’s a really big thing and if you if you look back to the history

And and see the stages how disco has been developing for example in Finland there are certain things like European open 2006 uh there’s like European championships U 2005 and 2016 for example and obviously these European opens and and this will be a very important new States for the sport in

Finland I think this comes as a a natural progression based on what we’ve seen in Europe this season we had multiple and a long string of a A Min European tour expansion with silver events uh being part and and this isn’t even mentioning the continued progression of actual Europe European

Tour propers I mean there’s been a lot of development in recent years but this year we had silver events for the first time over in Europe and now uh or I guess the string of silver events and the first dgpt Elite event this season and now coming up in 2024 we have the

Disc golf pro tour expansion and continued tour development with a string of the dgpt elite events that will be a part of it UA do you want to talk a little bit about that kind of expansion and what we’re going to be seeing going into next year with the European tour

Development and let’s talk a little bit about how that prog aggression has led us to kind of where we’re at today yeah since uh past couple of years A lot happened happened here in the uh in the uh professional scene like regarding tours and and the events events and now

24 uh it’s it’s natural progression I would say where everything let up all the uh different tours and and events everything tried to we try to get everything together all the media teams uh everybody working for towards the same goal and uh now in in in my personal perspective it’s even better

Than I imagined it like in in European perspective as as the it’s it’s not clear to everyone that the it’s it’s not only dgpg Europe Elite events but the elite events are still part of one could call call it a world tour but it’s it’s a dgpt tour like tour points series I

Think it’s referred as a global points series and uh there are no Elliot event at the same time in the us when we have one in Europe and they they are not Europe Elliot events they are the GPT Elite events but they are part of the European points system together with the

With the silver events and the European major European open as well and and it’s uh uh I I cannot talk High Enough about this this uh upcoming season uh as so as we’re recording you uh we have an announcement coming out that is so right now it’s it’s 8 8:00

This is it we’re recording on the 21st of December uh it is 8:00 in the morning in mountain time 5:00 in finish time and we have a an announcement coming out out UA that’s going to be about the points structure for the European Point series

Do you want to talk a little bit about that and explain what we can expect to see out of the European Point Series this upcoming season yeah in a in a two hours we uh come up with the announcement so it’s it’s fresh now we just finished just

Before this this uh meeting we finished the uh announcement and and the last details uh the 24 schedule for Europe European tour will feature five of the elite events that score 100% of the points meaning for the win you get the 100 points then we have one major

European open that’s uh 200% points uh then we have six elite events and the elite events have uh 50% of the points uh except the final silver event which is going to be after the elite ones that that will have also a 100% points so

That they you still on the last event on the final event you can kind of try to get a little bit more points and and go higher up on the rankings and even maybe even go for the win of the European tour uh points system and uh it of course

Matters because then based on the uh next season standings we will hand out the tour cards for the 25 season and that’s something that players are coming for which is actually also one thing we are having the is the European tour tour pass it’s called a and so this tour pass

Are we know that they’re going to be some American players who come over and play in the European tour are they going to be getting a tour pass are they a part of this European Point series how does that work for somebody who is a a dgpt tour card holder in the United

States and you know it’s coming over to play in Europe for an extended period of time uh yeah like I uh said earlier the Elite events are Elite events the jpg Elite events so the tour card holders can already register to the elite events in Europe and and quite a good number of

Us players have been already registered just to take a number it’s 30 to 40 players coming to Estonia for example from us and uh the the tour European tour pass I think we if I remember correctly it was top 30 players on the last season’s European P

Tour standings and top 10 from EUR tour who are not mentioned on the on the on the EP names yet they they will qualify for the European tour pass and of course we have exemptions that players can qualify for so if there is US players who wants to play the silvers they can

Try to get a exemption of the tour pass well very very exciting stuff absolutely Aro you are not as involved on the tour side but run you know incredibly large disc golf business how have you seen your business change and and in your just kind of observation as the tour

Continues to expand are you selling more Tour series discs are there more demands for other molds or uh manufacturers because of the tour and and what are you hearing and being a part of from your standing right UA as obvously much more ingrained in the tour but from your

Perspective as somebody who is still very influential in the Disc Golf Community what do you see in terms of that tour development um first of all I have to mention that U I think it’s a brilliant thing that these uh bit unclear European tours have now United so to say and

Everything is clear it’s more marketable it’s it’s more understandable for the for the crows and when it comes to the business side of things obviously whatever is hot is selling and I’m sure that uh uhas folks and dcpt folks and everybody is going to make uh the disc

Approach or heart also in Europe and we’re going to help in that so that will also help in dis sales I want to move and talk a little bit more about uh some disc sales as as we mention it we saw during the pandemic an incredible boom in the sport and and

With that we disc sales a lot of numbers seem to show that the sales have gone down from pandemic level Peaks but not to but not to the point that they are we’re still above pre-pandemic levels Aro can you talk a little bit about how you’re seeing on

The business side of discol what are sales like what are the trends like what are you kind of expecting and projecting for the next five years in terms of that that that progession that that’s the question I’d like to know the answer for um I can I can talk about the history

Obviously and this year has been hard also here on the on the Europe side of things and uh our drop has been roughly 30% compared to last year and uh in the in the big picture I believe that disco will keep growing through throughout our

Lifetimes so I think this is like a mro micro thing that is happening right now and in the big picture disco will keep growing for many many reasons we dislers know um for the next 5 years um it’s uh almost impossible to say there are so many moving Parts especially in

Europe uh I am I tend to be Optimist and and I’m I’m going to work hard that our sales anoun is going to drop next year let’s put it this way yeah that’s uh I like the goal I was I was curious what the Insight would be

But I think a lot of people people feel the same way it’s also interesting you talk about a lot of moving Parts in Europe and one of them has to be on the manufacturer side the some of the largest manufacturers based out of Europe uh have begun to consolidate under house of

Diss latitude 64 and the trilogy Brands Casta plast and now dis Mania all being a part of House of diss consolidates the largest manufacturing arms that that actually do the production in Europe are falling under this one you organization and um entity I I’m I’m both of you I’d

Love to know what your thoughts are in terms of how that’s going to affect the sport how that affects sales how that’s going to affect sponsorships uh I mean there’s there’s a lot of things and topics I think that we can explore under this consolidation and

So I’m I’m happy to have either one of you take over and and talk a little bit about your thoughts and and what you’re seeing change because of some of this consolidation yeah I can first first yeah I can go first I uh I think it’s uh the best thing in in

This uh kind of uh also well not unifying Brands but uh getting all on the same same roof is that the the owners over there they are outside investors like then that that is a sign that as a sport we are in a good way like you know we the

The we are doing doing it correctly it’s interesting in in eyes of money if you can put it and and uh I mainly see just like positive things there uh there’s always talks about Monopoly is bad and and stuff like that I don’t see this going there it’s

It’s not not like nothing like that it’s uh we we already see better things coming even from these companies or Brands inside the the house of dis like they they even that they are big companies in dis golf they are still they have been small companies as a

Businesses and there are changes changes there inside these companies that they they are becoming bigger companies and work like businesses should work and that’s a good thing overall yeah I I couldn’t agree more uh the biggest thing here is that this is a clear sign that this is interesting

Outside the Disco bubble if I can say so and uh I don’t know nobody knows exactly what’s going to happen I don’t think it’s going to be that significant for our sales immediately what can be significant for for the sport and our sales for example is that what kind of

Resources this new outside of discol company has because they they see the world in some ways most likely uh I I can say in a better way but I I wouldn’t I would be surprised if they wouldn’t have more experience on on making uh on improving sales and uh

Phenomena as as this golf is I believe that we’re we’re going to get more help from from these outside people that are not outside anymore but their backgrounds are in in uh like U other kind of businesses that support uh our future growth yeah and it’s it’s not only about

Them making like that they want to make money it’s it’s like thinking of they want to do sales and and who do they sell to of course they sell to us who already play this golf but they also want to sell to people who don’t play

This golf if they sell discs to people who don’t play disc golf it means that they become disc golfers well hopefully they become disc golfers and play more than once and and that’s growing the sport as well so it’s uh that that’s kind of the uh the view I want to bring

Up on on that one yeah I I think I think that’s a great point and the the other thing that I think is interesting here is it feels like you know uh UA you talk about monopolies and and I agree that it doesn’t feel like a monop situation when you still have

Companies like Innova and Discraft that you know Aro I’m sure you can speak to in terms of their popularity I’m sure still very popular brands in Europe even if they aren’t european-based um in fact it it makes it feel like this you know House of diss now is a company

That is on the same level as Innova and Discraft and and probably now exceeds it in terms of their manufacturing power their branding and it’s going to be interesting to see do you guys think that thoseand brands that are fall under house of dis now are going to continue

To sell and and brand independently or do you eventually expect you know rather than buying a Latitude 64 compass for example I I would be buying a you know a a single brand that that they’re consolidating under uh in terms of sponsorships do you think dis Mania and latitude are going to sponsor

Independently still and and will sign players as a Latitude player and as a dis a player or are they going to start just signing players who play for House of diss um I I can start with this one um obviously I don’t know know the truth I

I I’ve been talking with the house of discs people and um currently the thinking is that um this this won’t change like in a big way obviously when when one single entity controls all the brands obviously they will take a a fresh look what we should be doing with these Brands here and

There um I don’t know what’s going to happen but I I know that there are some discussions going on whether some player can can change to another brand within that umbrella but uh I think that’s just like a normal normal thing to do if if you control uh more than one brand there

Needs to be some some logic behind the behind having these different brands yeah I I think this is uh one of the uh signs of of that as a sport we are in a good good good way uh good path and uh for example if you look on the uh on the

Really big market and Brands like or or companies like Nestle Mars uh Mars for example has of course Mars chocolate bar but they also so have Snickers they I think milk way is theirs or boundy whatever so on doing the same product with different brands is is and they

They still are like I don’t know how many dozen dozens or hundreds years old Brands they are but they are still separate Brands instead of going just one one big and large chocolate bar I I’m trying to imagine what a chocolate bar would look like if if all

Of those were just in selling a single chocolate bar and it’s uh it’s hard to think about yeah um so I I want to this gives me a good segue as we talk a little bit about about players where they’re signing uh and and I want to talk about Player

Development in Europe uh M players in coming out of Europe are becoming more competitive than ever we’ve seen Podium finishes out of European players at Majors and and they continue to to raise to the level um we have 1040 player red players like Nicholas antila who who is

Among the top in the world uh in by rating but it’s clear that the level of of competitiveness is still not quite at the same level when you look at the fpo side where you have Kristen tar who is dominant and uh you know evina and henna

Both are Elite throwers and and you cannot argue that they’re probably some of the best throwers on tour uh you have the e of more young players Silva sarin for example uh just incredibly competitive it feels uh as you know someone who watches a lot of disc golf

That Foo Europeans are more competitive than their MO counterparts do you agree with that sentiment why do you think that is do you think I mean what’s what’s the progression going to look like of of both sides of the game especially as we increase the tour um and and talk a

Little bit about you know your guys’ perspective then on on that subject of f po versus Mo and and how they fit into the the most competitive levels of discol yeah I can uh start uh well one thing here in uh in Nordic Europe especially is is that the our uh season

Is not that long so our players are not able to practice in at the courses that much as as taken uh in US so overall that that gives gives us a or gives the us players a benefit benefit over there then going with the NB FBO compartition

We have not that that years ago like even I I started play this 14 years ago and and already at that time it was like Hey There evina was I don’t know she was like 13 years old or something at that point and through far like it was

Amazing to watch at that time and it still is and uh uh I think it was three years ago we did this kind of uh reality discol TV show called lead card and uh there was uh it was actually a couple of years ago when when evina and and henna

Was actually there as well and we had cameras filming like in in Big Brother like also outside of the course and when they were eating and stuff and they they had a good talk there and and one of one of their perspective was that because we haven’t had a separate FBO layouts in

Europe Europe anywhere until the recent recent years that might be one of the reasons why the FBO players are better because they have to play on the same difficult courses than than and and and compete on the same difficult courses than the N players do so that’s kind of

One of the of course they need to practice and they there need to be talent but that that that’s probably one of the things that might be there on on behind of that that because looking at the ratio the European FBO players are better than in

US yeah at least in the in the results that that matter um I did a little study I didn’t do much study before this podcast but uh I noticed that uh females are roughly 8% when it comes to uh the Finish player base and the PDC the whole

BGA player base so it’s roughly 8% uh so there there’s no difference in in that percentage and uh this this all is speculation and probably uh the reason for for FBO resulting better than NBO when it comes to Europeans uh is probably an outcome of many different factors and

Uh I believe that one factor can also be that discov is considered more as a sport also Family Sport uh especially in the nordics compared to the US especially California which is familiar to me like uh we tried to sell disco park back in the day uh to The

Californians on the trade shows and they were we were like a joke for them because uh because of the you know what I’m talking about the stigma disco has especially in that area hopefully and likely that is changing as this sport is growing and there’s disco Pro Tour and everything uh another

Thing another likely reason is that the NPO field has a much wider uh competition the the fpo competition is not that wide there obviously there are great great great players there they have always been great players but not as many as in the N Field so that’s

That’s one of the biggest reasons I think I I think I are both excellent points on the no side you talk uh youa you bring up the fact that uh you know the seasons are a little bit shorter and I want to talk a little bit more about

Nordic countries especially and and kind of the development of dis golf in European countries but but the course layouts Paul MC Beth commented when he went over and played on his extended European stretch that the courses in in Europe feel like what disc golf used to be right shaping shots very wooded

Courses uh the the kind of Co design they’re shorter than than what’s typically on tour do you feel that the type of layouts that Europe plays versus what the United States based tour which is becoming more and more golf courses and longer and and I mean that’s that’s how

We’re trying to keep up with the evolving game right Pros throw further than they ever have before they’re better players than they ever have been and and so we we stretch courses out that doesn’t feel like it’s happening in Europe as much uh land uh the you know

The the tour being I I there maybe there’s other reasons I don’t know but it it feels like M players are playing a very different style of golf and the way that the tour is moving in the United States is one that’s not going to be favoring European Pro Meo players do you

Share a similar sentiment or or do you think they’re that you know that’s misplaced um I have to say that I’m not an expert when it comes to current development of courses even though courses are very close to my heart and I think that uh creating more courses is

One of the best things that you can do uh when growing the sport uh I can’t argue against Paul MC Beth who probably knows what he’s talking about and I I would say that the situation especially on the tour on Disco Pro Tour is a lot different from for

Example uh 15 years ago when I visited the US for the first time and I played uh in Sacramento um I I played the traditional discol of courses and then the situation was completely the opposite when you think about uh the courses in the nordics and those traditional us courses uh probably this

Disco Pro Tour what we’re now seeing these courses are way different compared to those that I mentioned so so the sport has developed in that direction which is good lengthwise uh I’m not sure whether it’s good that everything is so open probably not maybe the medium would be a good

Option um I I don’t know exactly like uh I I don’t think that the distance is any kind of a problem for European players at least traditionally it hasn’t been um and and I don’t think that there are limitation ESP especially in the nordics where we have lots of

Space not so many people we have lots of space to create different kind of courses youa can you add something clever yeah I uh I I can agree on on the uh that the uh overall the European on a big picture European courses tend to be shorter more wooded more

Technical is the US courses or the dgpt courses are they too long already might be do do the players want that do the spectators want that good thing to keep in mind is that the we need to do the sport for The Spectators as well they

They want to see the shots both on site over there but also from the live and post Productions as well and uh I think maybe something between like if we really take all the course that is on the tour in Europe and in us something from between

Those will be the optimal point because not all the players like the big Open golf course distance holes and they might be like you know looking boring like to be honest DDO the the uh empor Country Club it looks boring but the course is really good like you don’t see

You don’t see it on on camera because of the you don’t see the OBS you don’t see the elevation that well uh but it’s a good course it’s a long course but and it’s a good course and uh like er said the distance hasn’t been a problem for European players it usually

Has been putting like the that’s where we have lost every time and and it’s good to see that finally European players or or especially I know the Finnish players they are practicing pting like they should have done 10 years ago already so they are gaining

Over there there on that one and and one one thing is uh that the in Europe the the land costs a lot like everything is is quite more built than in in us like the good long courses in Us in the tour as well they are quite in remote

Locations compared to what we have in in Europe like the biggest events are basically in the heart of the capital of the of the country or or even close to it and uh but we are also in in problems with that like uh the NOK and tamper

Courses which are going to be involed they they are also struggling with the new buildings coming up there because people are moving in in there and and that’s a Problem at pound the quality of our gear runs deeper than the the stitching that’s why we make everything right here in the US employing highly skilled well-paid professionals from bombproof Cordura fabric to YKK zippers and recycled Plastics we Source the highest quality us materials to make the most

Comfortable durable pack in dis all our lifetime warranty stays with the pack not the purchaser so regardless of how you find us we will be here to make sure your pack stays on the course and out of the landfill pounds in Integrity is held together with more than just Threat why is disc golf so popular in Europe because you know UA you you highlight exactly what what I’ve always found so perplexing about European dis golf um in the United States right I I live in a very rural area and very few people lots of open space and that’s

That’s how I come came to find disc golf uh you know there’s not as much to do and and so I I found an outdoor activity and there was lots of space and and started playing dis golf up in the mountains but in Europe I mean it’s land

Is a precious commodity and you know rural in in European countries is just very different than what rural in the United States looks like and so tell me a little bit about you know how did dis golf become so popular in European countries how do people find dis golf

How did you guys find dis golf um and and let’s start there and then I have I have some other questions I’ll I’ll add on after 2003 I think yeah I I’ve started 2010 well actually started playing I tried discol four years before that but

Then I had some other things in my mind uh I think one of the big reasons why Europe has Al and and the noric countries have taken this golf as their own better is that it it wasn’t a new thing when it came into our country like

When started in US it it it started from college uh the players who played this golf and and frisbe sports at the time well college students they they were probably something else than athletes at the time and that like er said stigma had has kind of been there and still is

There and in Europe it’s it’s it’s looked more as a as a sport and even as a professional sport from the beginning like from the start of course there and and both of these worlds needs to exist in this sport yeah yeah that’s true and uh when

We talk about European disc golf I want to underline it’s it’s the biggest in in the nordics especially uh Finland Sweden Norway Denmark obviously uh Estonia is not a Nordic country per se but they are also a big factor especially compared to their size uh Czech Republic uh for example Germany

Uh there are some hundreds of courses but uh compared to the population is not big but it’s a it’s really big in the nordics and uh I started in 2003 and we had roughly 20 courses in then and now we have more than thousand courses uh so I’ve been lucky to be part

Of the growth here and uh the reasons for the growth there are some key reasons I would say uh one of the reasons is that this is a for example Finland and Sweden they are small homogenic countries the people are very similar culturally language wise uh demographics is very

Homogeneous um it’s easy to read this kind of a population and when something is cool uh and it’s readily available uh discol courses have been uh us the the companies we have sold we we have made it easy for the for the cities and communities and whatever companies to

Purchase a disc of course that’s one one thing and uh there there has been a lot of volunteers important clubs all across the country all this together together with the rise of social media have helped uh disc to grow as big as it is today and uh the the work continues uh

For example finland’s disco Association they are investing in in putting discop in schools and arranging activities and developing that also professionally so all this together it’s it’s easier to manage a small country what I I would assume and maybe this is a poor assumption but my my

Assumption is that the biggest sport in Finland and and Nordic countries is is still football or soccer correct my I’m not an expert in in these parts but sucker is up there for for sure ice hockey sucker ice hockey okay yeah yeah y that makes sense ice hockey

Is probably the number one yeah ice hockey okay tell me so um when so let’s let’s take you know whatever sport we decide is is number one in Finland right in the United States uh we we have you know American football often right and so American football it’s it’s very much you have

Little leagues that are designed for kids to go play and uh when I lived in France I mean uh you had playing soccer you had soccer courts on every street corner right and that’s just you know everyone played where is disc golf’s popularity relative ative to the most

Popular sports you know ice hockey for example in the Nordic countries or is it is it is it up there like do does you know tons of people play Ice Hockey and know and know what it is obviously and and same for disc golf or is it still a

Relatively minority sport relative to ice hockey uh the following is official information and and I like to talk through numbers that are official so it’s not speculation uh among kids esally boys between the ages of 11 to 15 uh disc golf is the third most popular sport after let’s see uh soccer and

Bicycling bicy okay yeah and uh there has been a story that 1 million fins have tried disc gol at some point we We’re a nation of 5.5 million people something like that so obvious not 1 million people are playing it like actively but it’s it’s hugely popular in

Finland I’d say everybody knows this golf like they’re it’s when even when I started 14 years ago at that time you needed to explain what what what are these you know what or what the uh deer feeding things are in the par but these days these days the same people can ask

Like hey didn’t you play that Disc Go thing like yeah I I I’m still kind of involved in it somewhere I I I have tried it so like not these days pretty much everyone knows what disc golf is in Finland so that’s completely switch around I I I would put it there in

Amongst of the like major SP or prime primarily Sports in Finland that both both as a hobby or you know go play once or twice a summer or if you well on the maybe on the you know as a fan sports fan it’s not on the top over there it’s

Not on the top top list of course the ice hockey rally football all of those are in in much bigger numbers but we are working to be up there with them well and I think the other thing with with with more profession events the the time zones have been one of the

Biggest things right when the biggest media coverage is based on events that happen in the middle of the night for you guys it makes sense why spectating and and consuming dis golf media is significantly more difficult and I am excited for live events that are taking

Place in your time zones so that people can watch live and be a part of it uh and not have to stay up until you know 3: in the morning in order to to watch the tournament and world’s 2025 uh it’ll be the Americans who are going to be

Staying up late to to to catch or getting up early in order to watch uh watch the event and so that’s got to play fun story yeah fun fun story about the legendary holy shot it’s somebody I I think pdj has and DJ P has forgot the

Holy shot it’s not up in the social media every every single day anymore so I want to bring it up uh that was worlds happening in the middle of the night I think it was around 1 or 2 a.m. in in our time

Uh I was on bed at the time we we were living at the course we have the the cpis course in in SEO where the T event is is held annually except this year uh 24 uh I was asleep and we had actually a PDG event going on in the middle of the

Night I had already fallen asleep watching the worlds but because there was a basket right under our window I actually woke up because some somebody I think they made a like a what’s a everybody made a birdie on the hole and they started to Rattle the

Chains and I woke up to that I was like oh maybe the worlds was still on the TV already went off and I put it on I was like oh what’s the situation oh it it I can see who is going to win oh Paul is

Going to win and then holy shot happened and uh that’s uh that’s a nice story but we played this gol PJ events even at the middle of the night did did you go thank the guys who uh woke you up so you were able to see the holy

Shot no I I went to sleep after after James got his trophy yeah I can’t blame you um it it’s that that is so fascinating to me about the like just how popular it is the the fact that you know one in five fins have played disc golf sometime

In their life uh I I I’m explaining it all the time just like what is dis golf most people in the United States have not tried it and and so that’s it’s becoming more popular but that that is just absolutely mind-boggling I can’t even imagine what that would be like

What do you guys think then is it going to take to grow disc golf outside the Nordic countries because when I so I lived in France from 2015 to 2017 and while I was there I I think there was like two courses in the area you know in

All the cities I lived in there were one or two courses total and nobody knew what the sport was over there and so what’s it going to take to expand dis golf outside of of just the Nordic countries and Estonia and the places where it’s already

Established um it’s uh the the answer is building more courses obviously uh when you have a course when you build it they will come that that still works uh one good example in in Spain uh is the the larg largest public university that the Paul McBeth Foundation latitude 64 established a course

In that’s that’s one brilliant example what you can do uh to enter uh I would say New discol Market that Spain in my opinion is that’s that’s a good example it it requires a lot of ground work uh it requires uh building culture in in many many different ways

All that has happened for example in Finland or Sweden or Estonia during the past years all those things need to happen but but it it can be accelerated by having better content like disco Pro Tour available in the future having the worlds in Europe I’m sure that that will

Have a that that’s one example of the um side effects I I don’t know yet what’s going to happen when we get world in in Europe but uh it’s it’s definitely going to help all the European countries yeah I I can agree on that and the uh kind of

A it’s a sum of multiple different things but it starts with having a course and having discs to play with like you need those to to play this golf well you maybe you don’t need a course but it helps a lot a lot on it

And and that’s a that’s a good work like what po bet Foundation is doing they’re doing great work on it uh actually PDG Europe can now do they have more resources to put on on new new courses up in especially in southern Europe uh Spain is a good example both France

Belgium Netherlands like everything Western southern Europe Italy there is a plenty of of uh potential disc golf countries there with a lot of people there and and then trying to I’d say what for example DGP Europe can do is is there over Germany France where there is already like quite a good

Number of courses and there are some players so maybe there our existence then can help boost the existing Community which then as as a side effect of that they bring in more players more courses so it’s uh there is no one answer to that and unless you have

Endless amount of money and pay everyone 1 million euros to play this golf maybe and I don’t I don’t know how much how much collaboration is happening between the country but for example I I know something about the like developing the educational side of discov in Finland and uh we’ve been collaborating

With Denmark and Iceland at least maybe some other countries uh and and we have agreed in those countries when I when I’ve visited them that uh a lot more could and should be done and I hope that pdta Europe will lead the way here and uh because for example here in Finland

We have a lot of things that we know that we can we would be happy to pass on to other European countries and even to the US even though you’re very self sufficient and F further ahead of us I mean there there are I think there

Are plenty of things that we could learn from European disc golf and and without a doubt it goes both ways that’s right it absolutely does I wanted to wrap up with one final question and topic I guess what do you envision as the future of European disc golf and I want this to

Be as open-ended as I can um whether that’s you know aspirations hopes uh projects that you think need to happen what what is in your opinion the future of European disc gol uh I can start hopefully I still have a job at the dgpt after that but in

The future I honestly see and I believe that in Europe the professional tour will be much more how would you say like more premium more valuable kind of more more precious Prestige uh than in us and uh because we have the like said before we have the

Benefit of of mainly disc golf is considered as a professional sport so there is a the the starting point for us is to build it as a professional sport instead of trying to to brainwash people it’s not brainwashing telling them the truth that this can be a professional

Sport you know you in US you need to what this is yeah yeah and and by by that I think we have a really good chance to be one of the like big major sports in Europe and by that even be better than in us even that we have like the market

Could be smaller but if it’s it’s more Prestige then it’s bigger at that point yeah that’s a that’s a very big question with with a lot of parameters um public health and not I I love the competition side of disl and I watch disl events but to me the public

Health side of things uh the family families playing together is more important at the top level sorry to finers and and Paul MCB and all all you guys but but you show what what this sport can be so that it’s it’s a like like like it’s a

National sport in Finland I I could say uh so it it can become something like that when you have the top level displayed really really nicely when there’s the business involved I’m not even even though I I make my living through disc uh I I love the fact that

It’s it’s so affordable uh that the courses are in the nature you don’t have to pay a lot of money to play the sport it’s very equal and uh we have all the elements to make it really big uh and regardless of any any crisis the more

There are crisis the more there are reasons for this I think awesome well thank you both you Arno for your time this has been a fascinating discussion I know I mean Disc Golf in Europe is is one of I think the most important discussion topics as

We continue to grow the sport uh thank you both to all the work that you have done uh and and this really has been a pleasure to you your families and to all of our upshot listeners have a happy holidays thanks so much for listening thank you so much happy

Holidays thank you happy Holidays