The Evolution of Kayak Fishing | “Fresh One” Episode 8

On this episode we welcome in Kayak Fishing Ambassadors Adam “Trout” Traubman and Morgan Promnitz as we discuss the rapid growth of kayak fishing over the past few decades. Join them as they share personal anecdotes about exciting on-the-water experiences and delve into the world of everything kayak fishing. Get ready for an enjoyable podcast episode filled with lively conversation and insightful discussions about the evolution of kayak fishing.

Topics Discussed:
The Growth of Kayak Fishing
The History of Kayak Fishing
Kayak Fishing Stories
Kayak Fishing Tips
Travel Kayak Fishing
Kayak Fishing Accessibility
Kayak Guiding
PB’s on the Kayak

Check out all of Adam’s and Morgan’s articles on BD!
Adam: https://www.bdoutdoors.com/author/adamtraubman/
Morgan: https://www.bdoutdoors.com/author/roosta/

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Welcome back to another one guys we’re here with uh Adam trobman better known as trout and Morgan prominence and my good coworker Nate Lindsay we’re going to go over some fun stuff today uh mainly kayak fishing and kind of the start and the development of it as a

Sport I’m not super in tune with it so I’m really excited to get to learn about it and uh I’ll let these guys kind of dive in and and give us a lesson yeah right on like I was saying before this is a long time coming and this is it’s

It’s worthy you know it’s definitely a little side pocket of fishing and it’s not super popular I mean it’s had its moments and you know the history is really awesome because it’s it’s new it’s not like we invented kayak fishing by any means but we’re just kind of

Modernizing it and so it’s been really it’s sick knowing this guy like I’ve known him since he was a teenager couldn’t even drive um and so we’ve just kind of staggered through you know being different ages different levels different timing and uh I don’t know just going through it together has been

Uh really awesome we’ve known each other for what 25 years 25 years probably yeah I used to work in a fish and tackle store in salana Beach I started working there when I was 15 Blue Water tackle it’s not around anymore but I think I met trout either there or when my dad

And I bought our first kayaks my dad uncle and and I um we had no idea what we were doing I just moved here from South Africa and you know tried some shore fishing here but the fish here although I love fishing on the shore now

Were very small compared to the fish I was used to catching in South Africa so I was like I did some research and I found out there was bigger fish like calicos and Bonita and Barracuda and and then later on yellowtail white sea bass which trout was a huge part of teaching

Me um how to catch a lot of that stuff but I I had to figure out a way how to get out to the Kel beds and that’s how I discovered kayak fishing so we went and bought a couple of kayaks and before we I think my first trip to La Hoya I

Caught a Yellow Tail which was really lucky yeah so there was also nobody out which was like uh way back wi that was a really interesting thing is um you know when I started it was like early mid ’90s and um we’d go out to the pier and

Make bait because you know the mackel would go and we we’d bring Whiskas that was the go-to and you have your cat food Chuck some Whiskas we we’d launch at like 2 in the morning sometimes and get our Max and just load up and and and go

Out but back then there were two other guys and they were these old gnarly construction workers and later like 15 years later I ran into one of them at a Fred Hall Show and I was like you were so scary back then dude like and

So they would be at the pier and those are the only two people we ever saw and and Scott Cherry who is a legend who would uh fish off his longboard and so we’re like okay let’s not bum these guys out let’s choose two questions every week so every weekend we’d go they’d

Always be there and we’d be like excuse me sir can you and so we never were annoying and that’s how you learn you know and you just we we’d slowly learn like me to him too excuse me sir can so then I started going into blue water and

Morgan would be there and uh he’d ask me like two questions every time and and and you know Pay It Forward what size hook do I need for the mackerel or what pound test you know and it was it was crazy like trout was saying a busy day

At La Hoya back then would be like six or eight guys 10 people um and it was pretty cool it’s kind of like what what’s that saying youth is wasted on the young or something like that and I wish I knew back then what I knew now um

But obviously the sport of kayak fishing compared to like what you started out on I was on a cobra fishing dive a big barge which you probably made fun of cuz you were yeah he was on a stealthy fast Ocean Kayak you know and you guys went

Through like there were no rod holders for kayaks at the time um well also were pedal kayaks even a thing when you started they didn’t exist yeah the The Mirage Drive came about in 1997 from Hobie but I fished my probably probably until 2003 um I started in 2000 on a on a

Paddle kayak and uh but that was the the way to go and you had didn’t one of your friends like start the or build the Kaya tank or something yeah yeah so I want to talk about about that later cuz I think R&D is is a whole another thing that

Came about obviously and you were a huge part of that but I’m not going to lie everyone starts somewhere and I started in the most ridiculous little bathtub it was like it was it was crazy so really the way that I learned about kayak fishing was my roommate JJ he’s like oh

I got to go to Florida going to go see my mom like it’ll be cool though usually we fish off the docks and all that and uh he comes back and he’s like can we use potty mouth or not really yeah go ahead he’s like potty mouth he’s like he’s like you

Have no clue what’s about to go down and he said my mom said oh we’re not going to fish off the docks she’s like We’re going in these this is his mom and there’s these little sit inside kayaks they’re called kiwis and they’re like 7 ft long

And you sit inside and you put your little spray spray skirt on and he said they went out they caught red fish and you know speckled sea trout all the like Florida stuff so we come back he gets one and then I get one right away and we

Paddle out and we got Calica like you said it wasn’t really about Yellow Tail and white seab bass and all those pelagics yet it was like we’re catching edible fish cuz we are young and we were poor wait this was after your Florida trip you after his Florida trip he came

Back and said my mom showed me this thing we’re going to fish so very simple one rod and we bring crocodiles that’s like your desert island comp the one and only crocodile and then like some cut bait and Squid and very little and we would have it

Come out of the spray skirt and we would go and eat like it was a big deal to to catch Fe yourself yeah we fed ourselves it was so cool um and then eventually Baja was a big part of our life it always had been from surfing

And fishing and stuff and I actually had a near-death experience because of that stupid little thing and right after that I went to a Fred Hall Show and I met Spike and he had a sit on top kayak and I met him and I said I didn’t

Think anybody else did this thing that I do and he’s like I didn’t think anybody else did what I do and we’re like did we just become best friends y so that was really the beginning of the sit on top which is absolutely critical for safety for modern day kayak

Fishing so I think it’s cool that you took it to the next level after leaving Blue Water and all that to really jump in with Hobie before then it was really just Ocean Kayak and then that was your experience right yeah yeah we we were pretty lucky so I started uh working for

Hobie when was it kind of remember now 2004 or something like that no wait wait 2009 that’s when I started so I had a friend and he’s going to be mad at me for mentioning his name but his name’s Vince canole and he was the product

Manager at Hobie at the time and we had been friends he was a salana beach lifeguard and just a badass Waterman good friend of mine and I went to college and was studying business administration and accounting and I realized like the last year of my degree

I did not want to become an accountant I was working part-time at the tackle shop and at um Ron Lane store fast lane sailing and kayaking and uh I started guiding a little bit and I know trout guided way way before me but uh Vince

And I went on a trip I think we yeah we went to puer deitos which is just below San Felipe and he’s like I’m going to bring the kayaks this time cuz I we used to load two or three kayaks on my truck and we’ drive down and uh and camp out

And just drink beer and catch Corvina and uh I think I went 0 for 12 on cabria like big cabria just smok me but he he caught like a nice 20 pounder so we knew what they were eventually but um Vince was like you have to try this pedal

Drive system and I was like dude I’ve been paddling forever like my mentors all all paddle you know like it’s way f faster it’s way more efficient this thing’s going to break and he’s like trust me so we we towed a trailer down there and uh and within five minutes of

Trying the pedal drive system I was like I can never paddle again it’s a it’s a total Game Changer yeah and so that was that was back uh in it was in the early 2000s when I tried it and then Ron um I got a few boats from Ron and was guiding

And taking people out and then uh that’s right when Vince was developing the prangler 14 and so I got to try out this fiberglass plug at La Hoya and launch it through the surf and we found a bunch of issues with it which um took a while to

For them to listen to us you know but and some of them they never listen to us at all but um but anyways so I was part of that and then I finished um college and working at fast lane and Ron put in a good word with the with the uh VP of

Sales and she offered me a sales associate job and I walked in like in a suit tie and she laughed at me and she’s like you don’t like we don’t wear that around here you know like shorts and flipflops are this is where I want to

Work yeah and I was like ready for this big interview and she’s like no you have the job and I was like oh you’re stoked okay like dream job right and uh year was that uh it was 2009 yeah so probably 15 years after you that well that was right when I moved

Back from aahu so that’s right and we had just kind of reconnected and I was like Wow morgi grew up well I think just talking about like the Allure of kayak fishing is is how accessible it is right yeah you don’t need a you don’t need a

Ton of money and to go buy a skiff and you can pretty much access you know all these inore Fisheries that you couldn’t do from the beach and you’re watching these guys on their kayaks move that a little closer um you’re watching these guys on their kayaks bring in you know

Yellows and SE bass and you’re like damn I wish I could do that and then the pedal drive system changed bad and and everyone’s doing it now I feel like all 80% of The Kayaks I see while we’re out fishing are are pedal drive kayaks and

It’s it makes sense right your hands are free and um they’re so they’re so welldeveloped now the R&D I know TR was talking this before we started talking um the R&D that’s gone into all this stuff is just mental and Ira and all his friends they’re all groms and they all

Love kayak fishing because they love catching bass which is cool um like we got a couple old towns and Ira’s roommate is is out once a week on the Oldtown awes and he smokes them and he you know it just it seems easier I used

To like try and pet paddle around and I would like have to put the paddle down and then I’d start drifting away and I was like trying to cast like backwards over my shoulder you do it enough like you stub I am the stubborn Butthead that

Has never and will will never use the pedal I I’ve got this thing where I like coced under my arm I get this paddle with my rod forward backward I mean the chicken dance it’s just chicken dance chicken dance like I can like do that

Like get bit and like grab a beer with my elbow and yeah do you feel special are you like Dam anyone can do this in a pedal kayak but I got the we were in we were in Rancho last year and Nate hooked up we were like 200 ft off the beach and

Nate hooked a Dorado on a on a car yeah yeah I lost it I would say like honestly I was on a paddle board you oh that’s even better really yeah that’s even better yeah a lot of people do that dude there were like 40 lb Jacks swimming around and we

Like we got to catch one of those couldn’t catch could get a bite sard push through you know those Jacks will come dude when we were down there we were just like drifting on bait balls in a freaking humpback whale so I’m straight under me believe well I think

Like talk talking about all this right like that’s what kayak fishing is to me it’s like you can Shore fish you can Boat fish or you can flow tube or kayak fish and it’s you can go and buy a kayak for a few hundred bucks and get out on

The water and all you do is you spend the fuel in your car to get to the water and then it’s free after that you know here’s the way I looked at it yeah we started surfing like we always fished I’ve always fished since birth but as a

Surfer there’s this whole thing wom with a fishing rod y there’s this thing about when you go surf it’s the it’s the motion of putting your board in putting your suit in whatever going to the beach pulling the board out going out and surfing right that is what I wanted to

Do with fishing I wanted to be able to slide the kayak in the back of my truck put the poles on top put the rods on top a little basket with all the stuff that you’re going to need drive to the beach put in catch your fist and go home

Just like surfing takes a little more effort got to rinse off a couple more things but for the most part the accessibility I think that would be the the term when you’re on the water the term to use is is accessibility versus the boats where there’s just so much

Involved and and you don’t break down I think even like the accessibility and the Simplicity right like when we go out on the skiff we bring four or five rods each and we’re like oh you know and I think maybe sometimes it it helps us and sometimes it hinders us cuz we’re trying

To figure out what we should be fishing and when you go out on a kayak you have two rods May yeah no this like when I bass fish I’ll take right people make fun of me but if you if you look at like so K kayak fishing

Has become huge right I was the fastest grown segment of the fishing industry for many many years when I worked at Hobie and um and and it’s the same thing you can do anything on a kayak that you can do on a boat so there’s guys with

Like a crankbait Rod a ChatterBait Rod a jig Rod you know this that a spinning rod a drop shot everything then maybe I’m mistaken no but but so it’s as simple as you want to make it like Ron Lane his one of his funny saying that I

Remember is like less is more right you take sometimes you just want to take one rod and go have fun yeah and going back to the less is more thing like when I think of kayak fishing and I’m granted I’m usually on a skiff or a boat is that

Like when I think of about even open ocean fishing versus inshore fishing right like I know personally when I’m offshore if I feel like I’m not in a good zone I’m like out of there quick you know and I’m on to the next area when I’m fishing like an inshore

Area it’s kind of like I’m spending more time noticing all the subtleties going on around me whether it’s like a spot of puddling bait or just all the little things right and then that’s translated on a kayak even more so like on a kayak because you have The Limited Mobility

It’s kind of like you’re working with what you got whether it’s gear or whether it’s the whether it’s just how the fishing conditions are that day and it really f it it forces you to focus that much more and so in that in that regard I think it’s like it’s it’s

Really refined honestly because you have to pay so much I’d love for you guys actually to speak on like for our listeners who are wanting to get into kayak fishing I know um Brian Tim our buddy you fish with all the time he he’s like oh yeah you know Morgan was here in

His kayak last week and he’s like he saw Yellow Tail breezing all over and um maybe like they’re scared of our skiff and in a kayak you’re silent and maybe not not so much they’re they’re swi right next right and so maybe it’s an advantage and and I think for people

Listening who either are experienced kayak fisherman novice or or wanting to get into it like some tips on you know like targeting these game Fish we’re you guys are catching proper pelagic out of kayaks which is awesome you know and um maybe some like insight into you know

How you approach it differently on a kayak than you would if you were fishing on on a skiff I going back you know I’ll incorporate that but it also does have to do with with gear and so for me it was always like right in the middle which would

Be a fly line rig for live bait uh an iron some type of casting lure a bottom rig and a saiki rig right you I I would always want to have bait so you never know if you’re going to run out of bait or whatever they’re breezing through so

The ziki to always have live bait something where you know pelagics are on top sometimes you get marks on the bottom and sometimes you want to throw something and as far as kayak fishing goes now like we were saying before there used to not be that many people on the water I would

Actually find your own water it doesn’t have to be the the mpa definitely made it a little more restrictive but if you’re okay with going to Baja or going somewhere that has has less impact there’s places all over San Diego still as long as you can Beach launch

You can be alone and I actually feel like kayak fishing is plateaued when we started it was like just like going off and there was message boards and there was the guides and there was the tours and then there was the writing and the magazines and the blogs and it’s still

Popular but now I feel like it’s kind of plateaued where you could pick any day and really still be alone if you really wanted to because most of the boats are if they’re not offshore they’re relatively close to where they’re launching out of so there’s a certain

Area where it’s far enough where these boats they’re not going to go there cuz it’s too far and then you can still launch and make it there from the kayak right I would say going back to the beginning when we first started uh doing the the classes and the trips and guided

Tours it was honestly stressing safety um it’s really important to know that um to know how to launch to know how to land to know how to self-rescue um that’s number one being comfortable wear life jacket pfds um but really if you’re going to go kayak

Fishing but you’ve never been on a kayak go on the kayak first see if you can even BCE on some calm water too in the pool take that thing in the pool the B Go Fish in the B the bay the Bay right go go start in the bay the B

Are start in the pool but really be be safe I mean we’ve done so many self- rescues we’ve had days that were trash just because we’re out fishing and then somebody that shouldn’t have been out there holies and you know they flip and then you’re like okay now I’m spending

My whole day like getting this guy back in and whatever so just be comfortable be safe get to know your kayak test a kayak places like Fast Lane oex all these they let you demo these boats there’s demo days go go paddle these boats if you’re going to kayak fish find

The one that’s right for you figure out what water you’re going to fish um if you’re going to be a bay guy you know you can have a bigger boat it’s no big deal if you’re going to go offshore you want something with a more more narrow

Beam uh invest in uh um in a Rudder system maybe um more safety uh handheld radio don’t go out a cell phone don’t bring your cell I mean bring your cell phone put it in your bag you want a submersible handheld radio um lanard your cell phone as well I’ve lost like

Three in the ocean go with a friend go go with a friend and and if you go solo let people know where you’re going to go like I want to reiterate that like go with a buddy a buddy system is a good thing because if you do Flip or you have

A heart attack or something like if you’re by yourself you’re done you know um I mean you can you can get back on your kayak and stuff like that but having a buddy with you is a a huge thing but yeah like going going back on

On the tips for me when I go ocean fishing depending on what I’m targeting like if I’m going Calico bass fishing or just want to go out for a few hours and go hit the reefs or the kelp beds I’ll take one rod sometimes if I’m going to

La Hoya to spend all day I’ll take a similar setup to what Adam was saying and then if I go to the Bay it’s it’s one or two rods or how you know like the main thing is is um it’s a it’s like we have all this

Water that’s available to you and you can get out there on a kayak and go have like so much fun you know yeah and how much the another thing too going back to um what CH was saying about find your own water is just like as someone who

Grew up fishing in San Diego most of my life all my life there’s so much Coastline with no boats and no one kayak fishing that has the same Reef the same amount of bait on a given day like there’s fish in those areas but because like certain regions have been

Popularized and people just know oh there’s Yellow Tail there there’s so much area that doesn’t get explored and like that’s prime time that’s Prime Time fishery when you own a kayak right is you can get in quick and and get out of the water quick and kind of like see it

More as an adventure and exploratory Mission versus just like I’m going to go where everyone else is going because one person caught a fish air yesterday and I think I think a good way to understand that is to just go dive or even just snorkle our our local Waters like like

Wherever I surf sometimes I’ll just go out and there’s no way as we’ll just put on some fins and kick out and I’ve seen Yellow Tail in 8T of water me too I I you know uh there’s justo saw schools of hundreds of Yellow Tail and like six

Feet of water but it is definitely the blind leading the blind I will give La Hoya a little extra added they’re they’re it’s definitely fishy because you have the point and Canyon the currents and the canyon and and the fish pushing out and no there’s no fish there

Anymore yeah probably not there’s none you shouldn’t there’s fish there but they’re like oh that’s a y arm right exactly I swear dude they know they know what all these they let their guard down eventually but whenever I’m not there but that’s really guys why you learn to

Beach launch practice like it’s it’s but that’s also a reason to go travel and explore like you guys have done so much in Baja Morgan got to kayak fishing mag Bay yeah like what a dream dude yeah was super lucky with travel with Hobie you know you did the you did the offshore

Scene and you did the the um mangr Morgan if you haven’t seen a Morgan wri’s um kayak articles for us you should definitely check them out they’re really cool um and he wrote one on mag Bay and and targeting you know both offshore Marlin and and also in the

Mangroves there like Corvina and the um the golden travali yeah there’s so much water to to access on kayaks you know that’s some some of it’s not ideal to be in a skiff it’s just better biking or or 60ft biking like it’s not boil boil boiler rocks the number one being able

To paddle in and being a couple feet from a boiler rock where you’re literally pitching and letting it flutter down and and not worrying about your motor or the boat or having to back out or if the engine Cuts or whatever the one thing you can’t pull a you can’t

Pull as hard on a 20 lound cabria in a kayak as you can in escap or a Pargo no but unless you have a pedal drive with reverse and then you just like in mag Bay and the mangroves the first big fish I hooked in there like completely

Surprised me and just like took me into the mangroves and broke me off and the next one as soon as it hit I was just like pedaling my butt off with like lock drag holding the rod and like tow it away from there so if you and like

You’re were talking about boiler rocks we did a a Mothership trip on the qualifier 105 back in the day like a fish trap trip with Barry brighten and uh forget the the name of the place that we fished but it was like halfway down Baja um sack Reef yeah okay yeah yeah

Yeah and uh and the they launched it was a yeah it was a ski trip and there was some surf but my friend Jared Lane and I got into an area where the skips couldn’t even get to and we were catching like six and eight pound calicos after one after the other you

Know and and I I think a lot of the days that we were on that trip cuz we went to Cedros Island and everything we pretty much outfished the Skiffs on our I was going to ask you you would have been Camp there I drove The Kayaks down

Camped on the mainland and paddled out no area but I’ve done that there there’s some stuff no there’s some stuff I’m not going to talk about cuz like B Baja’s not uh a secret but there’s definitely some places where I’m just not going to talk about

It go explore go go explore go explore password and that’s what we did is seriously uh I’ve I’ve driven to the tip and back multiple times on both sides um you know just as a kid surfing and then as I started fishing more and then kayak fishing we pinpointed them and it’s just

Been insane thinking back on all the different spots that we’ve hit on both sides of the Baja Peninsula and there’s so much and it’s um and then you get different weather you get cold water warm water hot water all these different fish I mean grouper Pargo Snapper like

It just goes on and the end short like we’ve all caught so many tuna we’ve caught so many yellow taale we’ve CAU so many Mahi I’m back to like this inshore like these beasty toothy gnarly things that are going to kind of kick your ass what are what are your guys’s trophy catches

In in your kayaks have you have you done blue fin has are I know how he tried or I’ve caught yellow fin um kayak yeah not blue fin um yeah I’ve caught I’ve been to Panama and kayak fished Australia the Netherlands roers all over roosters tons

Of roosters on the kayak like up to maybe like 60 PBS wow yeah I went to Panama and uh I had this incredible first trip down there where we I caught over 5050 fish a day like to where I was changing the handle on my spinning reel

From the left to right side cuz my arms were getting so burned and then I knuckles for that was kind of it was nice um but we catching arm my arm yeah every every point we would go to I would have three or four big kuara snapper

Like come up underneath the popper and I kept on loot like I don’t know why they weren’t getting the hooks in their mouth but eventually I caught one that was like barely hooked by the skin of its lip and it was like a 50 lb and then and

Then catching uh roosters down there on poppers i’ had been to like Rancher lero and stuff and trolled Cabos and caught and then I was like I I don’t even want to catch roosters off the kayak on live bait anymore it’s boring compared to like the popper bites like Panama is

Sick yeah but but uh aside from that like getting back to here um we’re you know there’s you can explore like crazy with the kayak you can throw it on top of your car and drive to Baja you know and go spend a week and find a place

Where you won’t see another person all day long and catch cabria and cor Corvina and whatever um but right here there’s like all of North County that’s I actually start like that’s was my playground you know like my learning grounds launching through the surf fishing off Cardiff Carl’s Bad is that

Where you guided mainly when you were guiding no I mainly got it off La Hoya okay but but when I would go fish a lot of the time I I just want to be away from people as La Hoya got more and more crowded and even with with the crowds

Like it’s really not bad if if people are sitting in an area you can always go work the outskirts or whatever or sometimes like when the squid would come in and spawn yeah um there would be 80 boats and 100 kayakers and a school would swim through and 80%

Of that actually reminds me of something that I completely forgot about so as you get into your 50s you’ll start forgetting all kinds of too so but um literally I was looking one day and I’m like what is that out there and it was it’s like in the incus area whatever

Nobody fishes there it’s like they’re either going to do Oceanside or Carl’s b or they’re going to go down to like Salon or Delmar whatever and I was like those are those are squid boats yeah and I went home that night and uh my buddy daon were like we’re out there tomorrow

Like squid Bo are out there they’re squiding us like this is stupid not to try it was way out there so we paddle out there and these there’s two party boats out there and we pull up and I see a guy look over and I could we were so

He was right there and I had binos and I’m looking around I look on the boat and this guy’s like what the like like what are these guys doing it was it was like miles out was it in the dark or is it during the day no it was early

Like we we launched yeah it was pretty dark but it was so far by the time we got out there was like more you know just early morning and on the way out there was a couple Max boiling I made some made some baits and then I had uh a

Yo-yo and we get out there I drop the mackerel to the bottom put it in the rod holder put it in gear drop the yo-yo to the bottom hits the bottom two cranks up bit and then my live bake goes and I’ve got the double real holster Go real

Holster back and forth Gaff one Gaff the other paddle in and I look at the boat I’m like good fishing with you guys and they’re like what yeah and it was just one of those walk-offs where you know we get skunked all the time you didn’t even

Catch a fish on squid you caught on a yo-yo and a yo-yo and a mackerel and it was literally like a couple minutes and I paddled all the way back in with these two 25b Yellow Tail and the people on the boat were just baffled that’s the

Cool thing about kayak fishing is it’s just you’re you’re the oddb bird you know it’s just a different way it’s it’s almost more impressive it’s like man this guy just came in with a Seabass and a yellow on his kayak and you know well you’re your own Captain too right every

Like sometimes you get on the boat with someone and you’re like I want to go right but they go left and you’re like oh man I wonder what would have happened if we had G right and with the kayak you just go everything that happens if you

Don’t catch fish it’s your fault or you catch fish you’re like sweet I made like the right decision or whatever you know and and then as as kayaks have evolved like um and fish you you know adding fish finders and live how how important are are Electronics especially for this

Intro depending on what you’re doing um they’re they’re pretty important and having the GPS like um trout was talking about safety stuff like there’s several times when I was younger where the fog rolled in and I hear the the cars on the shore and I’d be like oh Shore’s that

Way and then I’d look at my GPS I’m like no Shore’s that way you know and so just being safe like taking a compass having a fish finder or a handheld GPS reflective things like what take take it all you know um yeah I got to say thanks

To my dad for like drilling that into me because he was an old sailor you know well that was the you know when Spike and I were working together and we like we built this class like it was literally so that it was consistent we didn’t want to shoot from the hip every

Time we would spend an hour and a half on Shore before we let a client ever even touch the water talking about launching Landing self-rescue safety talking about the drag some people weren’t good fishermen so they didn’t even know about how to set a drag I mean

It was pretty intense so we really went through all that and then we went through all the safety devices back then it was so stripped down and basic there was like half of what there was now PFD and let’s go yeah yeah right but um you ask them if they

Could swim you know that was yeah no that was we’d as for sure but you know shout out to spike for really um putting Safety First and not just like taking people on a on a drag and make say Hey you know you’re responsible for someone

Else responsible so that that was a neat part and then you know we do those introductory classes and Clinics and then once we’d get these intermediate to Advanced ones that’s when we started doing doing the Baja trips um I was the first person to ever take people from

Here down across the border and do these kayak fishing trips like we’d take down 12 at a time post up camp do whatever fish all day arrange things with the local restaurants they’d clean the fish it was like fish tortillas beans rice salsa beer tequila 20 bucks ahead you

Were like 12 years old bro is that is that how is that I so if for those you who don’t know Trout’s a really talented Chef um is that how you got started in the the whole cooking game is just as a part of your your kayak guiding you know

And you had all this fish and yeah actually what are you going to do with it it really was because we would go down um it was first our group it was we called each other it was like The Usual Suspects that was our group it was like

A handful of guys to the point where after the message boards and everything we’re like like why are we giving everything away and we created this own private email chain where it was just us and then we started traveling together and these guys um were like special ops

Kayak ganglers like we we did damage to to Fisheries you guys gang so we we fished both sides of the Baja Peninsula and um as much as I want to say I I did a lot these a lot some of these guys were better fishermen or better at R&D

Better at outfitting their kayaks like together we all shared information um one of my one of the guys and the suspects Mo he invented the kayia tank which was the first live bait tank that was underneath the the kayak it was so you have the sit on top kayak

That’s Hollow so you know you you’d screw the the hatch and inside he created this bladder system where he took a dry bag and had it so so that the bladder would fill up with water and then it was plumbed through with a u with a battery with an onoff with it and

So smart he did a timer switch so it saved the battery you don’t have to have it running the whole time so it’d be on for a few seconds off for a few seconds you could keep 20 macro alive and this thing and your center of gravity was

Balanced so these are the types of things that were going on you know obviously the starters were the rod holders the paddle clip lips um the crude tanks I have pictures of my friend that literally had like an aquarium bungee corded to the front of his kayak like had a plastic tub with

Bungee cords he’d fill it up and there’s mackerel s well I should have brought the picture it was it was I have a question for you um when like what year did you first start using a fish finder so the first time I’m gonna go with

9 sixish 97 like a black and white little tiny one it so it was the it was the hummingbird 100 DX and it was like $79 look like playing a game of it was uh it was space invadors you might be in 70t of water right now you could tell

The dep and that was about it right yeah but you’re like sweet I’m in 70 feet like I you know and the I I’ll never forget I was fishing and something happened one of the wires got jacked up and it made like 20 fish pop up every I

Don’t know minute like fake fish and I’m losing mind yeah the fish like like like a video game and after like a half hour of the exact same amount of fish come up at the exact sound time I’m like oh this thing’s broken now you’re on the demo mode still

Yeah or yeah so so now there’s like the the chirp seven and like all these things that are just like yeah the temperature and the GPS built in and all these things and they’re great um I honestly don’t go there I’ve kept mine like in the middle of the road like I

Said I do four rods I do a a middle of the road sonar I do the Kay tank I bring a hand Gaff I bring a bow in in case I need to tie up for safety I bring um bungees as like a shock I always bring a

CA anchor a drift shoot you know looks like a parachute so I throw that out so if you’re fishing for halit and the wind picks up you don’t want you want to go slow you want to you don’t want to just blow over the top of all these fish so

Deploy your your your your drift shoot and it will cut your time in half and you have the bungee for the shock so that if a big swell comes it doesn’t flip you over the these are all things that happen by us flipping over yeah

Repeatedly like what do we need to do to not flip over yeah and and if you go to like a a store like pure water sports or oex or fast lane um they’re they’re going to have kayak fishing experts that work there you know they have knowledge they’ve sold fishing kayaks for many

Years and they can help rig your kayak up how you how you want it my advice would be start simple you don’t need a lot you know um and start off on calm water and I have a bunch of friends that all they do is like fish The Bays or

They fish Lakes you know like San vente Reservoir or Lake Hodges or whatever elcap um or they go up into the sieras and fish for trout like that’s super fun on The Kayaks you know there’s so many things you can do with a kayak but those

Stores um if you wanted to put a fish finder on they’ll they’ll install the transducer and get you the right um battery to to powered up and then there’s there’s kayak Motors now which like I don’t know if it’s because I’m getting closer to 40 trout that my bell

Is growing or because I I’m not kayak fishing as much anymore you’re a new dad I’m a new dad yeah um but you know to me a kayak’s like a piece of equ like it’s like a fishing rod right you can’t you can’t just have one fishing rod that

Catches everything from a bluegill to a Marlin um and a kayak’s like a tool to um to access different water or like it’s like a different surfboard that you surf on a big or small day like I might use my pro angler um if I’m fishing a

Lake and I might use a narrower faster kayak if I’m surf launching in Cardiff or carsbad or Oceanside and um so I don’t know like there’s there’s people that I know that have three or four different kayaks for different uses they’re rigged in different ways you

Know one’s like I do one for each decade yeah 9 do you think there’s a limit like do you think you could as far as like the fish you’re catching you talked about pulling on a 50 lb Kua like that’s a proper fish but this like blue fin

Like do you think you could catch a 100 pound BL Inay I’m going to hit on that actually because I’m I’m interested I also lived on aahu and I know this is a regional show and we’re talking about San Diego and Baja and stuff but shout

Out to the Hawaii boys I mean these guys are catching billfish huge billfish hu huge aluas uh just onos onos like M like everything um you know living out there was a privilege because number one it was a different fishery so I I have the ability to get all these species that I

Couldn’t get inshore here and number two it’s cool because they have a completely different way of kayak fishing so there’s no real right or wrong way you know I go out these guys are using kagay which are like spear instead of using gaffs or they’ll do

Both and um lot of Big Tuna out there these guys are getting um yeah like tuna close to 200 PBS Big a um there’s wow on like thin kayaks too where I’m like dude where are you going to put that thing you know so like think about that I so

Like my friend Isaac R he started Aqua Hunters out there which was you know kind of he started by watching us like you know Spike and he watched his video and was inspired and then turned it into that fishery and it doesn’t have to just be Hawaii now it could be Mainland

Mexico it can be Europe there’s guys sending videos in from like New Zealand catching their version of the yotel these big kingies that are like 90 lbs I mean it’s really cool that it has gone Global um East Coast there are people that are targeting blue fin uh getting

Jumbos um I don’t know know what the record is I don’t know but large uh yeah it’s it’s been super impressive going from when we were just psyching on calos and barracudas when I first started I caught a mackerel and I was like wow this is such a cool fish and then I

Still do that when I catch mael yeah Nate and I go Nate and I go out have a a day we Harvest white fish it’s the most fun day yeah for sure half day of just harvesting every drop that’s the thing about fishing though and like whether

You’re in a kayak or a skiff you know like ultimately we’re out there to have fun and um you know if we’re catching fish we’re stoked whether it’s you know obviously we want to catch that big trophy fish but dude you’re if you’re have the ability to go out and and catch

Some stuff you’re you’re stoked and you’re having a good day yeah I think it’s interesting you look at like some of the long range boat captains and it’s like you ask them what their favorite thing to do is and they they’re like oh yeah I like hiking into the back country

And I catch you know 6 to 12 in trout and it’s and and and I think with a kayak you have this like sense of adventure every time that you launch and um you you can just go out there and you can try different things and it it’s

Just so fun man like this this whole podcast amping me while I start Kay Fishing more again one of the most fun things that I would do teaching was I did a Father’s Day Clinic and I would get a bunch of Tandem kayaks and a bunch

Of dads and little kids and when I say little I mean there’s some like five six seven eight-year-old kids and it was rad because a lot were girls and there’s not a lot of females in the industry it’s building it’s like it’s rad seeing more women starting to fish and seeing these

Kids we just go in the bay and it would be spotty Sand’s sandb time of their life and and mackerel and no more Smiles will ever be seen and talk about not caring about catching a big fish just watching little kids yeah especially little girls get bit

With their dad on Father’s Day like that’s good stuff it really it really is um yeah on the other side of that I still have like the stream thing I want to do trout and uh and so I’ve been I have a boat and it and I kind of wanted

To mention this but when I fish La Hoya I live in South Oceanside I probably spend like 100 bucks that day cuz I spent I it’s like a third of a tank Towing down to Mission Bay 10 miles out there I drive around for hours looking

For schools of Yellow Tail and then I drive 10 miles back and then I got to clean the boat and sometime I got a wheel bearing going out or I got to do this or that and I’m like dang like maybe I should have just loaded the

Kayak up you know um I forgot where I was going with this now it’s just as EAS easy to catch zero fish in a skiff as it is in a k yeah yeah exactly no and another nice thing like exercise right like I miss I I

Honestly I used to kayak fish like every weekend and for me an average day was pedaling anywhere from 6 to 15 miles right and I felt like I was in a lot I was in a lot better shape because I was active you know yeah and um I like that

Aspect of it as well yeah definitely um earlier you guys mentioned you know how quickly kayak fishing um was growing and and all this R&D and and these huge developments in the kayak space and it’s to a point now where I feel like they got it pretty dialed in right um in your

Guys’s opinion though like what’s what’s next what’s what’s still to come in the kayak game you know it’s it’s growing it’s huge it’s there’s a very Niche community of older kayak fishermen who I feel like are very hush hush like you mentioned which is cool like keep your

Secrets you know um but at the same time like we all want to share this love of fishing we have with one another and there’s so many um younger people boys and girls getting into the sport um what’s what’s next though like what is what is still left different on that

I’ll let you go first yeah okay um I think that kayaking like you can make it as complicated as you want like I know I have friends with a with like a Newport Vessels or toredo on the back of their kayak an electric motor which is which is like equivalent to a

One or two horsepower gasoline motor it’s for getting from point A to point B and then on that same kayak they’ll have a trolling motor on the front right and then they have a pedal drive as well but that kayak weighs like 200 lb and um it’s pretty complicated it takes a lot

To to set up and at that point I’m like why don’t you just buy an aluminum ski or something and that’s not K fishing yeah so and and like I when I worked at Hobie we were we ran the only bass fishing tournament series it was M mainly in the Central

And East Coast called the Hobie bass open series and to this day they still don’t allow Motors in our tournaments but like every single other bass fishing tournament series allows Motors and like that’s not kayak fishing like a 14ot pro angler with a with a trolling M on the front kayaks

Going like five knots looks so funny with a with an engine down yeah just I five knots in my k because I’m getting towed by a huge freaking to me to me it it’s lost its it’s uh like its pull for me as kayak fishing but it is where the

Industry’s been going and um companies like Oldtown and and I’m not I’m not bagging on using a motor on your kayak if that’s what you want to do do it you know but for me like the human powered aspect of it’s what I enjoy so I think

Yeah I think there’s something to be said though for if you want to if you you want to fish somewhere that’s further away from your launch point I don’t see an issue with using that motor to get to get there and then and then go on self power for the fish duration of

Your fishing and then use it for the long check back like that’s probably yeah the thing about like Newport specifically is you know a lot of time like you can put those things on on small Inflatables too oh yeah so like um yeah I don’t know just

Getting I do have a motor on one of my kayaks in Newport Vessels that cuz like if you fish La Hoya it’s like 3 miles to get I’m not talking to you anymore the fishing grounds and it’s after a while you’re like I don’t want to Pedal all

Day three miles there and then fish all day no I think for that stuff it’s a good call it’s nice you know that’s six miles where you can sit back and relax it’s so nice here’s the thing there’s no there’s no rules everybody everyone can do whatever the hell they want that’s a

Fact like whether it’s an inflatable or a John Boat so to speak uh one of the the bigger kayaks people want to do it that’s fine it’s like we all have our thing just like he’ll do the pedal and all paddle and some people can do a a

Motor but you know at the end of the day if we’re really talking about kayak fishing I go back to the basics which is where it all started like we’re kind of like I’m no I’m talking about like Pacific Islanders and Polynesians and the elutes and like you know the ogs and

They had craft that they would paddle with you know human power and they would fish and that’s kind of what I modeled what I envisioned after and I’ve always chosen the longer more narrow beam boat so I can go farther um troll faster um troll rapalas effectively troll hard um

Now I you know I I feel like it’s kind of a young man’s game if if I’m going to do it I’d like to like soak a nice mackerel while I sit there with a sandwich but perfect uh yeah like I said to to each his own like really there’s

No rules and I would never say you can’t use pedals or or a motor like everyone’s got their own Jam but if we’re talking about kayak fishing you know I go back to thinking about really the very beginning and starting with that crappy little kayak and almost dying in Baja

And um actually wrote a story about it Paul liba witz called me and Paul’s a great guy in the in the industry and writing and supported kayak fishing and loves kayak fishing and is a great writer and editor and I wrote multiple articles for him and one of them was you

Know you got to humble yourself it’s a i openly wrote this thing about me almost dying and uh it’s entertaining it’s Gra grasps you and it says like okay when we’re out there like at the end it’s like literally sink or swim um versus when you’re in a boat it’s a little more

Chill and relaxing and especially a cattle boat where you don’t have to worry about anything except when your cheeseburger is going to come up right right so I think that’s the part of the lure of this sport is it’s a little riskier it’s a little harder it you’ve

Got to be on your game um you got to watch the weather you have to watch the wind you have to watch the swell um weather changes quickly you know um so I don’t know I just feel like it’s more involved and to me that’s the lure of

The sport almost like fly fishing is to Conventional fishing or something you yeah I would say that’s a a pretty accurate yeah description and like just another tool to go have fun and tet cuz I always I’ve said this a lot of times to friends and I’m like you know there were fishermen

That wanted to get out there and there were kayakers um and so the fishermen used what the kayakers had and had to learn how to be or or they were kayakers who fish that really had skills in like maneuvering a kayak extremely well with their paddle and now if you’re a

Fisherman it’s just a vessel that you can get as a tool to to get out there there’s a lot more options well let’s talk about the things aside from fishing that are out there and like class and Clinics and trips that I did before too

I used to do a uh a lobster hoop netting clinic and I would I mean this was back when like people still you know fish heads were like they were going to throw them in the trash and I’d go to the fish market and all the local um shops and

I’d collect all the salmon heads and salmon carcasses and then I’d have like seven people go and I’d show people how to tie in you know get the bait in there and then we would get our glow sticks and all that we’d have our measure measuring devices and we’d paddle out at

Dusk and then as soon as you know the sun went down we would go and everyone would limit and those are that’s another memory I just totally forgot about Ling and crabbing off fun and then I just flew up uh into the Santa Rosa airport and I did the dungeon crab opener from

My kayak uh the most delicious I’ve lobstered once off a kayak that’s that’s dedication that’s hard we we were fishing like last week and we saw a bunch of kayakers um yeah there’s a lot of people that do it so it’s gnarly it’s hard work you can it’s really hard

Another thing with like accessibility with the kayaks is you would have the commercial guys setting their traps and then you would have guys on Skiffs or boats setting their traps you’d have divers and I I would I would dive a lot for lobsters free dive and I would find

These Ledges sometimes that I couldn’t get to not even a scuba diver could get to and I’d be like oh that’s in like 6 feet of water I’ll wait for a day when there’s no Surf and I there were times I would drop my trap and at night time I

Could see my trap on the bottom and I would I would paddle away and drop four more traps and by the time the fifth one was dropped I would come back over and pull out like four four big fat lobers now part of that is that now now they’ve

The commercial guys have absolutely whacked the population and so all these places where it was as easy as by the time you loaded your last trap and came back be full now they’re just shorts but he’s just he’s just even talking about the like being able to to to access

These areas that you can’t get to well there’s so again it goes back to just leveraging the areas that are coastal in San Diego that all the boats don’t hit frequently there’s lockers everywhere I free dive too and you know I’m not super serious about it from an ocean from an

Open ocean perspective but along the coast I love to do it and there’s so many like you said ledges caves holes you can’t get an arm all the way in there but if you mark it somehow and you can return back you’re going to get you’re going to definitely come home

With lober I have a funny story about lobstering at night my friend Brian Reagan and I were out one night and we used these were on paddle kayaks on our cobras back in the day and so we would same thing get tuna heads zip time on

The beach like we’ lay out all our Nets I think we might have flipped like there was nights where we flipped like four or five times tied everything you stack them up like we bring a lot so if you stack them up I mean like Fletcher’s

Cove low tide 6ot surf but it’s the opening night we got to go Lobster like yeah we would we would pedal or paddle north or south from there but anyways these pulling we would catch some cool stuff in the traps too like surf perch or like a Calico and we’d

Catch crap these big crabs well that’s part of my story so so he’s pulling up this trap and it’s and we have board shorts on we call Brian’s nickname is bear because he he’ll go out in board shorts in the middle of winter and he doesn’t get cold

He’s he’s a crazy man so he I remember him pulling up this hoop net and he lays it between his legs like rests the outer rim on his knees and so it it so the lobsters can’t get out and this uh eel there’s two eels in there and one of

Them goes through one of the holes down his um board short leg and right into his crotch area and he’s freaking out like almost flips his he liked it gets the eel out oh no but oh no there’s an eel in my shorts yeah he also

Um when when before like with the kayaks and stuff we would fish off our boards also and we used to troll for thresher sharks with a holding the rod in our mouth trolling a CD and he caught one in his mouth like a 80 or 90 pound thresher hooked it and

Then and got towed around he put on his lap afterwards yeah we lift it up and then let it go Rino and I used to do thresher clinics Rhino he’s uh more up north like even north of La more like Ventura area that’s good thresher shark

He he’s he was the master at the Threshers I mean he had it down he would have the buoys and tie them off and everything and he came down once and it was I couldn’t believe it we had seven people and we went seven for seven everyone got a thresher we we released

But um yeah like that’s what I’m saying the different things the crabbing the lobsters Threshers uh on top of just regular fishing with yeah like uh Jim Salazar you know Jim um he goes up into like the mammoth area and he drops um what do you call those things crawfish

Pots and he gets his crawfish for his little crawfish broil and then he catches a couple trout and he spends he’ll go up there for like a couple months at a time and camp out with his kayak and just has a great all the time but that’s that’s what I love about a

Kayak you know you can take it on on a camping trip or I’ve flown to Cabo with inflatable kayaks before that’s cool that that you check you know in your luggage that’s really cool and you get to Cabo and maybe you have to pay 70 or

100 bucks for an oversized bag but you have a you have a kayak with you for the whole trip and you know cck fish that way too that’s that’s so my friend JJ that you know his mom was that started this like honestly like he and I still

Talk about that like we could go anywhere we want those inflatable kayaks the development of those those things are bulletproof lightweight and that’s one of those things where there’s Waters that have not been fished that I mean that that would be the ultimate that’s another thing great

Y my gosh would be rad on a kayak well that that’s what I was was thinking of is there are Outfitters now that have kayaks like in Panama or Cedros Island um or mag Bay that you know that I went to like if you guys do some research um

You can find these these Outfitters where basically you just you pay your fee for your accommodation and you’re and you’re fishing and you show up and they have six or eight kayaks right and they’ll take you out and Mother Ship you out to the spots and it’s it’s it’s a

Pretty cool trip and if if you do that I would still try to get your learning curve dialed before you go there I mean ABS there’s all the writing articles like before it was like so huge with the message boards and everything like that’s what I did is I wrote I I I

Did a quarterly newsletter um I wrote for the fishing magazines blogs whatever um Spike did the video now there’s YouTube and all this stuff you could find some of my original articles if you go to the library there’s micro fish and microfilm with the wheel you guys

Remember that no no you’re so what are you talking about micro I’m just kidding no but that’s that’s like like some of them are quite old but you know I think the older ones are some of the better ones because of the Simplicity it talks about the basics it talks about the

Safety terminal tackle you know what you need what you don’t need the gear launching Landing uh all that and just start with like literally a tackle flat one rod one setup yeah safety stuff and just drop cut squid pothole in the K beds for calicos and chep’s head and all

That and and then just work your way up yeah yeah you’ll have a blast yeah but you know we’ve I’ve recently gone to new places like Mainland Mexico I was shocked like yeah they have kayaks right there with rod holders like oh and it’s just common place now yeah I mean

Internet solves everything I mean it kind of takes a little bit of the excitement out and you know having to really dig but it does make it nice so that if you go somewhere you have a plan yeah you have a plan and you guys have

Gone to more places than we have we’re lucky no we definitely have not Ricky out for sure and if Nate wants to come and maybe you want to but you know that none of you guys have ever invited me fishing that’s not true I don’t you’re busy you’re um if you guys

Have a dying need to say anything else we we got to wrap it up soon but I want to make sure you guys get all your thoughts across um but yeah no I I think um I’m I’m very keen to go out on the kayak and I am too just just experience

Something different n and I been talking yeah to s island or something it’s like a plunker blue fin yellow bite it would be cool you know what we’ve been talking about too like sorry to cut you off dude when we are just rolling up on foam spot

After foam spot during the summer and just they’re down as soon as we get there yeah they is it the boat no they they’ll go down with the kayak too even the little i’ cuz I’ve done it and even the little Hull slap of the like it I think it’s just the fish

Sometimes but yeah um but imagine being in a like if on a on a good day when they’re they’re going dud imagine just being the middle of a foam spot in a kayak and some of the experiences that we’ve had like balls of anchovy underneath us with 20 lb yellowtail crushing anchovy underneath

Your kayak you know like stuff that you see on the kayak whales and it’s a different experience than if you’re in a boat crazy whale experiences yeah I think the craziest thing that’s ever happened well there’s been a lot I’ve sharks obviously tiger sharks great

White sharks all that but we were God it was like San francisquito or like pun javato or something like that we P out and was with Bill and I think Neil and there was this Boulder and it was like a symphony every like exactly at like two

Minutes 10 billion grouper would fly in the air like a like a baitball would come through and it was like a mushroom cloud and these things are flying through the air all throw we would all get bit sometimes it felt like before they even hit the water like they would

Jump out and grab it we would all get broken off we would all retie and by the time we retied and it went on over and over and finally like we started grabbing like 80 lb stuff and like and then we started catching them but it was

There’s just crazy stuff that that no one would ever even believe it now everyone has the GoPro and like video But if I went home and said there was mushroom clouds of grouper they’d be like here send the vid Budd the golden no photos never happen yeah this being on YouTube we’d love to hear from you know people that are watching this on stuff that you’d like to see or if you

Have questions yeah we’d love to have you guys back in in the in the during the season can hop on and try to help you um answer those questions or steer you to a shop or something or if there’s something you want to see you want us to

Take Ricky out to S CL Island and drop him off when there’s 200 pound blue fin with a yeah or Nate with a little helium balloon and a flying fish and let you know stuff like that let us know in the comments and 100% yeah no I

Appreciate you guys coming on and uh like I said Morgan writes for us and and trout does as well he’s done some insane seafood recipes he’s done a couple videos too they’re all time I promise you if you try any of them them um you’re going to come back and and try

The rest um Nate has a few on there too he’s a pretty pretty good cook but yeah defitely slouch he’s like the Dark Horse he’s got he’s got some hidden gems definitely check their stuff out and and look out for it more in uh in the coming

Year I think um you know we’re we’re definitely excited about what’s to come and um we all love fishing so it’s not going to stop anytime soon yeah for sure I think the last thing I would say go ahead is like for all the younger people I see all these groms creeping the

Lagoons and the golf courses you said what’s next I never answered to me that’s what’s next all these younger groms that the passion is back yeah like these kids are risking like fishing is cool again get trouble for the first time you can really get in trouble now

You get yeah you’re in grown up trouble right but like I love The Passion of the kids and once they all get get their driver’s licenses those are the ones that need to get a kayak and cuz they’re not going to have a boat right away and

That is the way to become a steward of the sea and get ready to slay some dragons it really is you start on the kayak you learn the basics so by the time you grow into it that’s when you get on a boat and develop your skills I

Think you learn stuff from kayak fishing that you can apply on the boat or apply for shore fishing especially if you like for those wanting to kayak fish in the ocean if you surf and you can read the waves and stuff like this the whole Pacific Ocean’s your playground you know

If you get a kayak you can get out there and get after and have a lot of fun yep and if you can tie a knot while you’re wobbling around back and forth and it’s crazy out there I mean everything else is crazy it’s easy it’s easy it’s easy

Right on well thanks guys that was fun thank you for having awesome appreciate it cheers