Tiger Cuts Ties With Nike? | NO PUTTS GIVEN

Is Tiger really pulling the plug? As we see him back on the range and on the course – it’s evident something is shifting, especially when it comes to the right pair of kicks. Chris and Tony dive into sponsorships, Callaway’s BIG 2024 teaser, and who is STILL left to jump to LIV by the end of the year. Let’s get it 🎬

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Ultimately doesn’t matter does it really matter what logo is on tiger shirt it doesn’t yes to a lot of people that buy that stuff as long as it’s red as long as it’s red on Sunday and you know still not convinced we’re going to see tiger

Play a lot more on Sundays but I know I think he’ll do I think he should do private label what is happening people no puts giving how you living Tony and Chris we’re back we’ve been racking up the uh airline miles and you know making sure we’re visiting all those uh wonderful

Oems out there making all the golf equipment and things and we’re back we’re back we’re back how many uh how many lounges did you visit uh you know let’s see I I think only a couple so I didn’t I didn’t go in many on the last trip so spent some time

In a lounge in Atlanta and and then Detroit two and two two separate Detroit lounges didn’t even didn’t even make it into the the little one in San Diego this time so it is one of the the small Joys once you get to a traveling situation the lounges I figured I have

To basically eat roughly $100 worth of food over the year to make my lounge access credit card worth it so uh Hey United you are losing money on me but anyway speaking of deadlines which I wasn’t speaking of but it doesn’t matter 12 12:31 we’re almost there it’s the end

Of the year this rumored PF PGA deadline is nearly Upon Us lot of lot of news out there Tony does it happen does this thing get done between the PJ tour and PF by 12 31 it seems like with every every passing day it becomes less and less

Likely I don’t know I don’t know how much urgency anybody is feeling though you know some has suggested right that John ROM buying John ROM essentially what piff did uh they purchased John ROM for 500 plus million was kind of the shot across the bow that was basically

Look you know we can we can keep spending money like this until we get it done you know we’ll buy everybody if we have to because I think I think we kind of knew it but I think it’s fair to say like everybody has a price we know through equipment

Contracts over the years for example that PGA Tour players they’re mercenaries to some extent to to no small extent really and so at some point the money will be worth it to everybody who gets the offer to go and like I said so they can they can do this as long as

They want and uh you know maybe it’s in the PGA tour’s best interest to get this done I think yeah that that’s the way that I read that too and we can you know talk more specifically about Rah at a different time or whatever CU really to

Me it has nothing to do with John Rah himself it has everything to do with the message it sends which is like he said hey we can play this game as long as you want to and the conclusion you’re going to come to is the same one you should

Have come to already which is we have more money than you it’s endless well take everything slowly but yeah yeah I was uh during one of our recent trips um we were on one of the bus rides in a very windy area of South Carolina and uh that was an adventure

That was an adventure and uh we were sitting there chatting with jwall uh over at golf.com and you know trying to understand you know because it’s the the money is so ridiculous it’s really I mean it’s hard to wrap your head around right like just to conceptualize a

Million dollars what’s a million dollars you know and then 10 million and and these crazy numbers and basically what uh what we were talking about and he’ kind of worked out the math or somebody kind of sent the math to him that what they spent

On ROM would be the equivalent of you or I going down to not even starucks Buck not your local roster Tony not my favorite local rooster no but going to your local favorite gas station and getting like that you know cheap as hell Frappuccino or you know gas station coffee whatever it’s you

Know 86 cents or $150 or whatever that’s what they spend on r a cup of coffee it’s nothing no nothing nothing so you know it’s it’s kind of funny like you want to choose a side maybe but the more I stepped back and thought about it it just it just you

Sort of realize it doesn’t matter the PGA Tour as a whole is a pretty crap product if you really step back and think about it in terms of the interest level the way it’s presented we talked about TV problems tournaments that that by comparison compared to any other most

Any other sport that would occupy a large slot of TV time on the weekend right your your basic Tour tournaments nobody watches live is not going to be much different it’ll have an audience just like the PGA Tour does but on scale nobody cares nobody’s going to watch it

Doesn’t matter if it’s on NBC or if it’s on CW it’s it’s just not going to Garner that much attention and again well as we’ve said countless times there are four to six tournaments a year that matter and the four that really matter only one of them none of them right none

Of them are controlled by the PGA Tour so no one for the USGA one for the RNA one for the PGA and not the if you want to argue the players right I mean you can you can put yeah okay but again that’s that’s one of the kind of maybe

Even if you think do a top seven top eight like say okay yeah you know in throwing the Ryder Cup or something else in there throughout the year and you’re talking top five seven eight you know golf events okay whether it’s whether it’s billions or Millions six figure right

Seven figure deals for uh for live guys eight figure deals we’re talking I guess right right yeah many cases or seven fig deals six figure deals for tour players P nobody cares nobody it’s not going to increase viewership yeah there’s some chatter like people are going to watch less at a minimum it’s

Going to divide the audience so long as you know PGA Tour and live exist as these separate things so you know nobody wins except the guys getting the millions I guess so good for them but at the end of the day you have two crap products instead of one and still four

Majors that matter uh a couple of slightly elevated tournaments that maybe matter a little bit more than the others and still a bunch of filler PJ tour filler live filler doesn’t matter filler is filler majors are the only thing that matter so everybody might as well just

Get paid earn account at this point yeah and speaking of that that you know there’s this other rumor right roughly three billion uh dollar investment that’s you know again purportedly close to finalization uh may happen seems more likely than not but again this is kind of that private in

Investment uh a multi-billion dollar deal between the PJ tour and strategic Sports Group group bunch of well-known billionaires that manage other things who cares well that’s so that’s the question what so what does that mean then so because the only thing people like however that like so that’s kind of

What I settled on as I thought through this the fundamental problem in all of this is that you have a bunch of uninteresting events that don’t attract top talent that nobody really wants to watch on on a level again compared to other sports that occupy the type of

Time slots on TV and none of this changes it like if if you start if you start pouring more millions in it doesn’t change anything maybe maybe if you find a way to go commercial free I mean my God if soccer can figure out why

Can’t golf um if you can figure that out maybe at least you can get to the point where you don’t have that to complain about right like but you when you watch more shots than or more commercials than shots yeah uh and that’s that’s just part of it right again because this this

All feels prettyy meaningless until you get to a major yeah well money doesn’t change that no and a very very basic level what we’re Bas you know talking about is a lot more money being invested in the professional game so what happens when there’s this massive uh cash infusion potentially into the

Professional of the game well you got to think then right everybody wants to get paid so what does that look like and do you create more of this you know well maybe it’s not a good word but bifurcated reality in professional golf kind of the halves and Have Nots is it

You know where does it all go does greed overrun everything blah blah blah it yes that for sure you know to me it makes the professional game less interesting um you know the more money is involved and and again I get it people are professional golfers people that are professionals and anything want

To get paid for what they do if you can get paid more for doing what you’re doing of course you’re going to uh go down that route but um that doesn’t mean it’s all good so that whether or not this money I guess these companies that are investing the

Money like take this you know Sports Group okay if they invest three billion where’s the ROI for them like to me that’s a question like they’re not doing these people that would be investing that money aren’t donating it right they want to make 5 six S 8

Billion so I don’t know how you do that I don’t are you going to do that given the current product like there may be some kind like in your mind how could they how could they potentially recoup that investment and you know make their money back plus going to have to sell a

Lot of hats and jerseys right that would be how you looked at it in in other sports and again so so maybe maybe if uh if you look at it from the piff SL Liv side if you can get more Buy in on this uh on this team stuff where people care

Enough to buy jerseys and buy hats but yeah I don’t I don’t know like are you gonna put up luxury boxes on the golf course I mean if you look at how money is made on the other end are you going to charge more tickets for people who

Want to see this stuff you g to try and get a better TV contract but again like I said nobody’s watching on scale so I I don’t I don’t know I I don’t know yeah I don’t know if it’s going to be more player involvement if it’s you know that Players let’s say

Players get a greater share a greater opportunity to access some of that money is it by making their time more available is it um I don’t know you know and it’s maybe it’s it’s plugging other things they own right investment bank accounts and thing investment firms things like that all

The stuff we see commercials for is that a way to bring in money to other businesses they own and pump those up I don’t know but but quite frankly if you know if I had the money to choose which which would you invest in the PGA

Tour whatever in whatever form or an MLS team for example like right now like I put the money in an MLS team right I’d be so I’d be investing in Costco and we’re going to talk about our friends in Kirkland in a minute but that to me

That’s the the the most interesting part of this thing is what does it actually mean how does it fundamentally change the product and and does it change it for for better or worse and I guess we’ll have to see you know um do you smell smoke Tony because where there’s

Smoke there’s distance there’s distance yes there is it’s teaser season uh that’s quite a non Secor isn’t it like where there’s smoke there’s there’s distance all right so teaser season where there’s smoke there’s there’s distance there’s distance and who doesn’t want some smoke if it accompanied by yeah I’m not sure which

Of those I want you want it all you don’t want this smoke yes you do want this smoke anyway what is teaser season Tony why why should people be interested in this what this this is like that weird point in time where like nobody’s going to talk about their products but

They’re going to G to tease them start showing them off you can uh pause videos you can save images and go to photoshop and lighten them up a little bit to get a look at what’s coming but this is like yeah where you everybody starts to start

To tease the new stuff without saying too much get you interested without the details get you excited I don’t know it’s l rinse repeat man I know it’s maybe we’ll have to come back and and vote on what was our favorite teaser uh right now it’s right now Callaway is a

Runaway winner but it’s also the only one I’ve SE it’s early it’s the only one we’ve seen it’s early it’s this uh like I said this delicate dance between you know things that we know that we can’t say yet which is the reality of the

Embargo World on one end and then on the other end you know people have leaked images they have names you know once something’s up on the conforming list once it gets put in play at a tournament then pictures are out on the interwebs and people are guessing I mean that’s

The thing right if it’s uh if it’s in play in a tournament the pictures are fair game that’s the rules long established people know these things right so and and quite frankly I was talking to one uh representative from a major manufacturer they said that’s actually kind of good for us like they

You know we’re getting extra eyeballs on a product that’s yet to be released and they’re paying zerar for it right so that’s a nice little marketing angle for them so we can’t say everything but I’m going to be interested yes to see how creative some of these companies are

With it the you know smoke fire um I didn’t see any fire maybe I was just G well if there’s smoke cuz usually usually when there’s smoke there’s fire but this time where there’s smoke there’s distance yeah maybe there’s fire I don’t know we’ll have to check on that but if

You see any other teasers out there let us know cuz I think they’re kind of fun to uh when you know what the end product is to see kind of how they’re backing into some of these and and some of the things like again the Callaway one all

The numbers that they were flashing on the screen there uh especially the 12 that was one that was very interesting uh to me and we can’t say just why yet but it’s interesting and with that it’s almost time for 2024 we have a Full Slate of testing coming up Tony what’s on the

Docket where are we at now how fast can we get some of this stuff out there we are we are in the acquisition phase of uh of Most Wanted so you know reaching out uh figuring out who’s going to send stuff which uh which stuff we are probably GNA have to buy

This year there’s always a little bit of that so yep uh I think I think we’re GNA have to buy pxg gen 7 right let’s look like that’s a thing right looks like uh looks like that’s a thing assuming what it’s called we’re doing uh One Way Or

Another We’re going to test some of the crank stuff that that Bryson has reestablished on the map uh so we’ll see if uh you know we’ve reached out to them maybe they’ll send it maybe we’ll buy it um but one way or another going to try

And get some crank in there we have done away with our our policy of not testing something a second season so if it is current at retail it will be tested this year categories love that love that yeah we we heard plenty about that um so yeah

We’re doing that and uh yeah I I think probably early February for Most Wanted driver how we’re tracking and then then we’ll see we’re optimistic we’re going to be able to accelerate the testing cycle this year because as you know but some of our listeners may not we are in

The process we’ve closed on the building in the process of doing the interior build on our new test facility HQ so doubling our Bay capacity putting in some new technology on the putting front um big things coming I think kind of grand opening type thing happening February marchish don’t put

That in anything other than pencil but yeah that’s that’s that’s kind of where we’re at so stuff is arriving at HQ for sure the boxes are are piling in so to all of you out there that’s hey God can’t we get I know I get this request all the time Tony when are

Fairway Woods coming out because we love your articles Chris on Fairway Woods we cannot tens and tens of us cannot wait because we want to know that the good news is it might be sooner this year than than previous years and then moving forward uh might even be able to

Accelerate it even a little bit greater to try to get people that information earlier in the Buy season that is the plan right that’s why we we doubled the number of bases to increase and accelerate output without without having to cut back on what we think are the important things like the

Number of testers that participate the number of shots you know we’re going to we’re we’re not cutting no no no no nope information will be as good if not better than previously just we may be able to get through the test a little bit quicker so I love that speaking of

Actionable information which is what our data provides I was down all right there’s the segue that was better that was a little we kind of loosely spoke of that this time just you you speaking of Donkey Kong speaking of Donkey Kong I was down in Texas for a day with our our

Good friend faet yeeha Scott faet and I gotta tell you I you know actionable information like there are stat tracking things that are out there and I think that you have to you got to find the information right but information itself is kind of a commodity you know you can

Get your swing speed right a lot of different ways you can get strokes gain I mean Strokes gained is it’s just math right you can get that but what do you do with it what do you do if you know a b and c and how can you actually use

That to help yourself shoot lower scores that’s the question that decade aims to help people answer and it does it in a way that’s different than anybody else so we have some cool stuff coming that’s kind of my own teaser season uh you a busy man is it the government that is uh

That is actually Mr Newton oh hello Mr Newton Top Golf callway company checking in to make on and see if the samples had come yet so that’s good stuff that is good stuff all right getting ready for embargo season right and we like I said we can’t talk

Photographing yeah a ton of the stuff that’s out there yet we can’t talk about all of it but we can talk about a couple of things what’s this Wilson fit AI thing I saw this pop up Patrick Harrington said it’s Muno swing analyzer is that what it is with a Wilson name on

It is that what it is I mean it’s talk to me about this Tony I mean it is it’s interesting right it’s powered by the blast sensor at the end of the club but you take five swings and it makes a shaft and head recommendation based on a

Mix of Wilson data and input from Fitters on what they’ve ultimately chosen for guys whose parameters swing parameters match it yours and you know we’ll we’ll throw AI in the mix because that’s will you gotta you gotta have ai now but yeah I mean it it reads a lot like

What mauno has done for years and I’m sure there’s some differences and some P proprietary tweaks but you know if I’m being honest when we look at that all of these things that that kind of fall under the umbrella of the future of fitting right this is this is more of uh

This one reads a bit like more of the present of fitting to an extent so okay um you know we’ll see and I think it’s I think it’s good for anybody to have a tool like this I think every manufacturer should have some sort of fitting technology that that is above and

Beyond you hey if you can if you can go to a a txg great um if you want to pay for some of those other Fitters great but you know for a big box store for example or just about any other scenario any type of you know call it fitting technology call it

AI whatever you want to call it anything that gives the fitter a head start I think UL is good and we also have to realize that that not everybody has access to fitting locations comprehensive fitting locations with full shaft catalogs all that stuff so anything that simplifies the process

Anything that makes it a little easier to get yourself into something that fits your game better is ultimately great but in terms of like Breakthrough groundbreaking hey it’s good for Wilson here like I said but you know the the onp paper read is this isn’t wildly different than some of the stuff that’s

Already in there yeah the thing I I I think the thing that I like the most about this product which is similar to like so what I like about uh what nuno’s done um over the last three four five seven eight years with that is two things one for a

Fitter hopefully makes our job a little bit more efficient so you don’t spend the first 30 45 minutes eliminating all the bad answers which is what I think these products kind of do which is great so it says hey it’s not necessarily this is the exact head shaft combo that’s

Better universally than any other one out there blah blah blah like but if this can remove let’s say there’s a hundred options out there for you maybe this removes 95 of them and says hey these 95 are not optimal one of these five remaining ones is going to be

Optimal and now you can spend the bulk of your fitting time comparing and contrasting maybe these four five six options I think that’s the real value of a product like this right now is that the future where fittings going I don’t think so we saw some stuff out at ping

That I think is more in line with what something like this could become and and the stuff that ping is uh is launching and I don’t want to talk about too specifically because I don’t know what’s out there or not yet but that what Ping is doing is the future of fitting I

Think at least on the kind of current Horizon but I think this is something that will get people to maybe try Wilson products and that that maybe they haven’t a win yeah absolutely you know so there’s that Tony I cannot wait to hit the Kirkland irons I think they’re revolutionary I think they’re

Gamebreaking I think you’re not buying what I’m selling Tony my question is this why all the hype and pump and Circumstance around Kirkland irons C driver why Costco’s got a following it’s a loyal following because you know they’re they’re yeah they got they have $5 rotisserie

Chickens they got a following and if you hate it you can bring it back later and and get all your money back very few if any questions asked and so like there’s there’s great policies at Costco that people love but in terms of the reaction

To the golf equipment I I IR roll on this because you know I step back and and kind of look at it objectively and okay I get it it’s cheap and that’s a huge selling point and I suppose you can argue accessible though you know if you don’t have a Costco

Membership not so much right and I would guess majority the majority of golfers probably do not have Costco membership so I struggle with the to an extent the accessibility argument versus you know a sub7 or pxg or t number any number of Brands where you can go get something for as little money

As a Costco product costs in in some categories right uh but objectively kind of looking at what we’ve seen right the the first four-piece ball which it’s funny right you can still buy that ball under different names but sure nobody’s interested now because you can’t get it

With the Costco the Kirk logo on it is really good mhm the three cents have been excessively spinning not something if you make the argument that it makes Costco makes it easier for a starting golfer the last thing I would recommend for a beginning golfer is a really

Spinning golf ball so I don’t I don’t think they’re helping anybody there uh the the second four piece the followup right single use cover disappeared hasn’t come back the wedges I mean the putters eh it’s a putter the wedges are mediocre performers but again they’re dirt cheap

And so I mean that’s the argument if you want to spend the least amount amount of money possible on golf equipment Costco’s got you covered but there are very few other situations that I can think of especially those situations where there are quantifi quantifiable performance benefits or deficiencies or

Something that is in in that that needs to be tailored to the individual to perform at an Optimum level there are very few scenarios where you would go yeah I’m just going to get the cheapest stuff cuz it’s accessible and I like the company like that’s the thing and it’s

It’s kind of a cross in vertical like okay Costco’s done really well selling bulk food and and discount jeans and the Vodka here is awesome but if ping who has a a long-standing reputation for making very forgiving golf clubs that that benefit a lot of golfers all of a

Sudden started uh selling bulk mayonnaise I I kind of scratched my chin and go you know what I maybe don’t want to get that so yeah I don’t know like I said I get that it’s cheap I get that there’s a loyal following but I from a performance

Perspective I struggle I struggle I wonder if you know we talk about this all the time golfers have long memories right and part of that is I wonder if the first ball like you said was really good right that that came particularly for the price that it was at if people

Are painting this picture of like hey you know Costco kind of has this deal right that that it’s kookn signature stuff is basically going to be on par with Market leaders whatever that kind of means so I wonder if people don’t are just looking at that going hey those

Wedges I you know Costco doesn’t have anything to hide I bet I’m getting vogi wedges okay I bet I’m getting Taylor Made irons I bet I’m getting a you know a Callaway or a tailor made driver for you know for Penny on the dollar for

$200 I’m going to stick it to the man and you know what I’m getting I’m getting those Kirkland you know because you can get the $150 hot dog lunch you can get I just did this last week I went and got the $5 rotisserie chicken and

Ate the whole thing great $5 meal are I think people are probably going I that’s it $499 for some irons that are on par with ones that are two to three times and I think that’s that’s kind of right if you look at where other Costco products come

From they are made you know basically white label by some of the leading Brands some of the top brands you and I would buy in a grocery store that’s not the case with the golf club the ball is not a rebranded Titleist as some people have surmised like Titleist doesn’t have

Anything that would spin like that because it’s a it’s a piss boor design with really bad Arrow I mean there’s a lot wrong with that golf ball no man manufactur are you sure it’s asle as golf yeah right it’s just a and and same thing with the wedges it’s it’s it’s not

They’re they’re coming from like these third-party factories right they’re open mold designs so yeah you can a lot of this stuff if you dug hard enough you could probably find on sale elsewhere through other companies but they’re not vogi wedges there this is not a rebranded tailor maid or titlist or

Whatever other driver that somebody looks at the soul design and goes oh that kind of looks like that no this is this is third party Asian Factory not nearly the same as what you’re getting from the OEM especially in the driver category Dave was talking about it on our call this morning right

Where it’s you know the sound isn’t great yeah you’re not you’re not getting a $600 white label Callaway or Tailor Made Driver for $199 you’re just not this you’re getting yeah kind of that that Asian Factory open mold stuff right and is what it is again

Like you know there are the the the LW specs are a little different but go check them out for yourself go to the smt website right component company been around for a long time sure there’s an smt design that looks and and I’m not a guy who’s like oh that looks like this

Other thing no there is everything looks like something yeah but there is an smt design that borders on identical a little bit different in the in the Loft spec so kind of perhaps some slight changes there but in terms of the cavity design the stuff that can see it’s very

Very similar and it’s price competitive with the Costco one so you know this kind of thing you can find it elsewhere and yeah maybe you want the Kirkland guarantee and things like that again I get it but let’s let’s not build this stuff up like it’s you know Costco is

Revolutionizing the gulf industry with you know onp par equipment they’re giving you a cheap option and there’s nothing wrong with that but I think it’s important to keep it in perspective as well absolutely and one more plug for the rot tiery chicken man cuz five bucks for a whole chicken they’re big they’re

Good last chicken from can’t get a chicken from Titus I tell you that no that’s true last week we were out at ecpc that being the callway performance center what can we tell people Tony what can we share about our experience out there for one I was super

Impressed in a word I was impressed what was your what are your initial reaction was it Newton’s haircut or just really it was a combination between Newton’s hair ha cut and loper’s haircut that’s what was most impressive no yeah it was uh it’s kind of was an interesting experience I think

Um what I would say is if you look at kind of where how the products have changed and evolved we can say this right you just sort of get the sense of you know maybe maybe this time around Callaway did some more listening to Consumers and

Than maybe in the past were like you know some things are different that that I’ve long said needed to be different and you know go so they basically listen to you by cons you like I said my suggestion on the golf ball was fairly obvious anyway but you know there’s some

Different stuff there uh some different stuff with the irons for sure where we came away like huh well this is uh this is surprising in for many reasons and none of them are bad you know the drivers have been good for a while but I

Don’t know like if I were to say you know you you hit I didn’t hit the tailor made stuff because I wasn’t feeling well when I was there but we’ve hit right you know Taylor Made Cobra ping and of course yeah give me your your favorite so far and again this

Just one of one one one guy’s opin yep so even not data driven not you know not n of one is insignificant right this is just an opinion that’s all just an opinion um so I can’t deny that out at Callaway I haven’t hit a driver that

Good maybe ever like it I was just you know combination of things um and the numbers were really good feel was good launch everything about it was really really good like based on that day I would have taken that driver put it in the bag and not look back um so it’s

Hard for for me to put anything ahead of that one for right now um that would be the bar that I would start measuring the other uh the other ones against I think different philosophies on some uh some things but it’s a better looking and feeling Callaway driver than what I think I

Experienced the last time I really put a Callaway driver kind of through the and the time before that and the time before that and proba the time before that like there’s some things like you said that are decidedly Callaway but the changes that they make people might go oh I

Didn’t see that part coming in a good way like I said all of those changes I think have been um beneficial but I would also say this is that driver head combination stuff uh alongside ball is going to be a big deal people matching The Loft launch itions

To the correct ball it may or may not be the correct ball from what you were playing before depending on what you’re looking to optimize and so Calla is making some pretty pretty audacious claims um that again we can’t go into just yet but based on my experience I have reason to

Believe that there’s some Fidelity to these claims and so I yeah it was impressive so I’m going to put I it’s hard for me to put anybody above that one right again just based on N of one and uh and some of that that’s um yeah that’s where I’m at

Today Fair maybe I don’t know it’s my opinion of course it’s fair doesn’t matter that’s why their opinions Tony buy your cell we got five quick questions I want five quick answers Tony there are rumors that tiger and Nike will soon be never ever ever getting back together if that’s

True what should tiger where what brand mean sure maybe he splits it up but if you’re kind of reading the tea leaves it looks like foot Joy right and ultimately doesn’t matter does it really matter what logo is on tiger shirt it doesn’t yes to a lot of people that buy the

Stuff as long as it’s red as long as it’s red on Sunday and you know still not convinced we’re gonna see tiger play a lot more on Sundays but I know I think he’ll do I think he should do private label do his own line of tiger stuff he

Doesn’t need any more money from Nike do something really cool and take ownership over it that’s my thinking longer this last weekend uh the there’s the PNC the you know the parent child tournament I didn’t watch much of it at all I don’t want to you know spend my week that’s

More than I watched I man come on kids are 14 years old whatever just let him let him enjoy it be out there whatever the longer team barard and and and Sun won but I’m giving him an Asis Tony because Berard played like 1100 yards shorter than Charlie

Woods what that’s bifurcation if you’re not if everybody isn’t playing from the same te’s it’s bifurcation that’s horrible can’t have it I totally agree totally totally agree saw some other news there Logan Olen we’ve seen seen this putter Artisan if you will a couple of his designs pop up recently Scotty

Sheffer’s bag Nelly Corda bag there were some pictures on the interwebs of indicating that maybe he was going to tailor made if so big deal or not so much no well that that I would say that has already happened the privacy policy on the Logan Olsen website makes it very

Clear that is now a tailor made company uh no so big deal or not no it’s I mean again grand scheme of things it’s a guy most people have never heard of making Putters that most people have never seen and I think you know Taylor Maid sees a

Lot of upside in that but as of right now no I’ll tell you one person it’s a big deal to Logan ol oh Logan Olen I for him a huge Logan’s probably having a good day good for him you know we we don’t see this that often uh and you

Know again Scotty Cameron iconic you know name associ with an oem iconic Bob vogi iconic right Roger Cleveland when it wasel but again these names that get associated with Brands throughout their their lifespan that’s a huge huge deal now not all of these have worked out uh at different times there have been

Different individuals that you know for whatever reason it hasn’t worked but if this is what gets Taylor Made into that space particularly on two or like Logan olon just did a small run of you know Putters I think they’re call them 850 bucks something like that boom sold out right

Away if this gets tailor made into that premium kind of space and that becomes part of the tailor made identity in a place where they’ve lacked identity for quite some time I think that is a big deal it’s a big deal for them hi margin hi margin

But I think it’s a big deal for them give me a course Tony in 2024 that you want to knock off your bucket list yeah you know I anything at Sand Valley but um as I’ve kind of like as you see stuff on the twitters on the

[ __ ] if you will um the one that that I see that always makes me a little jealous that I that I haven’t been there it’s cabit oh up in the Canada over there I love the Canada pick that goes right actually that’s tied into here because the Kaiser Brothers

This is going to be the development in Colorado is going to be kind of the I guess middle of the country is uh Sand Hill Sand Valley balneal type of topography so I’m not going to get there in in 2024 I love the cabat pick I think that

Is uh is phenomenal if there were one other one I would love to get I’d love to knock off like a Maran I think Maran looks phenomenal and if I couldn’t do that maybe Oakmont something really old East Coast uh CU I don’t get to play out there nearly as

Much as you that’s on mine finish up with this Tony give me a bold equipment prediction for 2024 what are you looking for give me some context here give you a context uh who will be the bestselling driver Taylor M or Callaway I’m gonna go with Callaway this year I

Think they even though it is kind of the the Paradigm 2 year uh don’t say that but yes I know it’s not technically Paradigm too yeah it’s I I’ll take Callo but man I uh you know there there’s a lot in that qi1 lineup to look to like it’s going to be

One of those two I think um it’s it’s ultimately G to I think boil down to how well the qi1 story plays and how well uh how well Callaway can can match it with with not having I 10 in the name my bold equipment prediction is 20

And 20s of people will read my Fairway Wood articles this year no but uh what what my prediction is that we’re going to start to see the traditional 3-wood go away no more of just this three you know 15° 3-wood thing I think we’re going to see a shift

Toward more Mini Drivers or people playing two drivers we’ve seen some people doing that or going more into that kind of like fourwood fivewood space I think the traditional Three Wood 15° that amateur struggle to hit off the deck anyway way we’re you see a shift away from it

Uh USA USGA is going to bring it back just as quickly as it goes roll back the ball got to bring back the three-wood well that’s true which we’re going to get to some of that stuff in the after show so if you’re excited stick around

For another 10 to 12 minutes we’re going to talk about a couple things like CT creep oo not a song Tony not a song my one of your favorite uh favorite groups of the ‘ 90s and 2000s but we’ll be right back all right we came back are you standing Tony

Still are you how’s that feel good yeah I like it feel more animated it’s definitely harder to stay in one spot I would imagine so we uh we’re just going to spend couple 10 12 minutes here Tony on the ball roll back stuff when the actual announcement came out

Where were we because this is maybe something that’s interesting uh yeah we were in Liberty South Carolina at the Taylor Made ball plant plenty of situational irony present in that literally at tailor Maids facility we’re going to be walking you know going in to walk the floor and

See the technology as we know they have a a new ball coming out as as well um and we get the announcement and we had all this list of questions right that that we kind of talked about before and so I just wanted to kind of recap now that there is an official

Announcement now that we have had some time to maybe exchange a text message or two with with different you know maybe companies and and people and kind of get get a sense of where companies are at what do we know now that we did not know no

Then I mean not much I mean we have the specifics but it’s all kind of played out as expected right Lo roll back going to basically increase the test speed decrease the uh the maximum distance um we’re going to cost everybody some degree of distance we’re

Actually going to if you look at the math and I actually kind of it’s kind of popped into my head I was like hey wait a minute if we look at this from a Strokes gain standpoint what happened and I ran the numbers few different scenarios and I was like man this seems

Like maybe it doesn’t play out how entirely how the USGA wanted it to or how how the purists who think distance is overvalued want it to but I crunched the numbers came up with a result and so I texted Lou and I Lou stagner I was

Like hey here’s what I came up with and he confirmed what I thought and that is that uh with a roll back golf ball assuming basically everybody takes a proportional hit from a Strokes gain metric you actually increase the relative stroke value for longer hitters by just a tick so basically uh you

Increase the the weighted value of driving distance and accuracy that The Strokes gain metric so yeah it’s another way yeah I was to say so everybody will be shorter which is what they want but longer drivers will will have even it’s not a lot but a little bit more of an

Advantage than they have today yeah I mean is that way of kind of saying that you know when you make something more scarce you make it more valuable so if driving distance becomes more and we can we can probably debate you know that um

How hard it is going to be for people to achieve that sash McKenzie had some interesting thoughts and stats to kind of kind of show that but it’s not making the longer hitters even less no further rewards distance yeah which so you roll it back and one of the but

Hey I it doesn’t obsolete anything I guess as your argument which is you know damn the damn the actual math on that either but right but it tells me if if that is how the math works out and I trust your math and and lose math and people that are good at

Mathing it tells me it has an awful lot more to do about the visual element and what it looks like and how golfers are playing these courses than actually trying to change the SK you know like reward different parts of the game if hitting it even further is going to be

Rewarded even I don’t care if it’s 1% more or 10% more it’s going to reward it more because what we’ve been told is that the way that it is right now today is not good so our situation is not good in terms of the balance bance of skill

In the game so we’re going to take the skill we’re trying to address and make it even more valuable and yeah and we’re doing that based on bad info and I’m you know excuse me I don’t forgive me don’t have the direct quote in front of me

Paraphrasing uh here quite a bit but so Sasha was on with with Lou and and Mark Crossfield I believe and kind of talking about the USGA and where they came from and and the take was that you know the data they’re using how they’ve applied it if they brought this into any

Peer-reviewed scientific setting the USGA would have been laugh laughed out of the room and so it kind of tells you you know for for Sasha to say something like that the validity that of of what they’re working with is is absolutely suspect and we’ve known that right it’s

At best cherry-picked at worst it’s just kind of like yeah this sounds good this is what we want um you know so it’s yeah it is what it is but it’s it’s kind of silly it remains silly it’s and I guess with that question that I have

Is is it over I guess and what I mean by that is you know like I said we have firm dates now like the 2028 would be when it would go into play for professionals and there’s a two-year grace period so 2030 for all golfers do you do you get the sense that

Golf ball manufacturers are kind of resigned to that saying hey yep now we’re going to kind of start just going that way or do you feel like there’s still kind of well hang on a second here this is we’re we’re definitely hang on a second mode and I say that for a couple

Reasons first you know I think there’s going to be possibly a regroup and and some feedback from the PGA Tour uh the LPGA Tour for this I mean fundamentally I think if as a sport that you’re a side of the sport an element of the sport you know whatever you want to

Call the women’s game that you’re trying to grow a roll back that that impacts the women’s game is it’s comically stupid um so you have that like the the disproportionate effect on the game again we’ve talked about this how many tour players what percentage of tour

Players actually hit it far enough to be problematic on what percentage of courses so it’s you know just segmenting to to levels of absolute nothingness and then applying it to everybody is is ludicrous uh so I think I think probably going to be some some further input from

The tours I think you know this if you contrast uh or I should say there is a a massive contrast between uh the statements that have been released thus far and what is being said inside the ball manufacturing golf companies right Titus of the of the big Brands Titus was

Certainly the one that was least kind of roll over scratch my belly kind of thing so for me that didn’t sound like it was completely over uh I love uh I love what La GF did coming out and taking an absolute flamethrower to the USGA calling them out for their nonsense y uh

So yeah I think so ultimately yeah I think whether it comes through further conversation or this has to go the litigation route I don’t think it’s over yeah it doesn’t mean it won’t go through but I think I think the conversation has not ended the USGA can say we’ve made

Our decision uh but there’s still going to be conversation and I think particularly given the extent you know because that was one of the things they heard back rate from the company like who if you’re going to do this you got to extend the timeline like give us you know we can’t

Implement this type of ball in two years or whatever the case I think a benefit to that probably from the manufacturer side is saying hey this also gives us time to go through some sort of process and see you know if this is something that’s going to go in effect in 2025 which

Would be ridiculous gives them no time to stop and ask okay well what about this or what about that or and it’s that’s the other thing too it’s it’s definitely going to be a multiple ball solution because just like anything else right how do you you’re

Going to have to have a a catalog of solutions tailored to the needs of individual players so you know some people you’re going to need to kind of solve this problem by slowing the ball down others it’s going to be kind of the optimizing aerodynamics for a new ball

Others it’s going to be spin that sort of thing um so it’s it’s a whole catalog ball of balls that’ll be necessary to solve the problem what I can say confidently and this is going to you know this is going to spoil this whole exercise for a lot of people because

Those who missed the Artistry of of the days of Y uh when golfers were shaping shots and you needed to work the ball and all of that stuff it’s never coming back we’re not going back to bolat where guys were hitting low spinny curving shots we know right the math is

Unequivocal unequivocal on this curving the ball working the ball is inefficient right so straight works and that’s so you’re you’re not going to add a lot of spin again tailored to the player you’re going to have some higher spinning offerings but you’re not going to see for example anything that touches spin

Levels of the Kirkland likely on tour right so the idea of going back to bolat forget about it anything or bolat like performance right you’re G to make the longest ball you can and it’s still going to fly straight like the modern golf ball so you know sorry we’re

Rolling back distance here but that’s at best all you’re getting and yeah yeah it’s not over I don’t think it’s over was it over was it over when the ger bomb Pearl was it over no it’s not over it’s it’s not over at at all and I don’t

Know like said that doesn’t mean anything’s going to change but it doesn’t mean you know like I said the the difference between what companies probably have to say publicly and what they’re talking they don’t have to that’s the thing like the diplomacy of it’s I mean and again maybe that’s

Yeah I’m frustrated a little bit by the diplomacy of it all because again you know what what I’m hearing isn’t isn’t reflected in those statements right you there’s there’s anger there’s frustration and so to see a couple companies basically going well we disagree scratch our B

You know um but I think I think to that you know if they disagree as vly as we think that they do or that then that’s going to lead to something you know that and and we’ll see that at some point you know sooner rather than later so no I

Don’t think it’s over either there were two other things that I just thought were interesting in that notice or in that actual document they talked about opening the door to further limiting performance by looking at the driver itself and they talked about two specific areas CT creep and then kind

Ofi or offc Center Performance so let’s go into those first just quick review what is CT and what is the CT creep of which they speak well CT is the kind of the the measurement used to sort of Define conformance if you will so you

Put a driver face in a a driver head in a fig year drop a pendulum on it machine measures how long the the pendulum stays in contact with the uh with the driver face and what is it milliseconds micros seconds I can never remember which the

Measurement is but but it’s 239 and then you get a tolerance of 18 that brings you to 257 and so the whole idea of creep is that overtime a driver that say started below the limit through use gets faster creeps up over the limit so you go from under to

Over and then the driver is no longer conforming so they want to look at the rate of CT creep or some such yeah so the reality is you know companies you know when they’re let’s say 230 like said 239 is the official limit then you have a little forgiveness a little a

Little range on for the manufacturing tolerance for the gauge tolerance for the guy operating the gauge because none of this stuff is precise to the nth degree so right so wi and no company wants to make a non-conforming driver have their their driver pinged as hot or

Whatever the case so if 257 ends up being the real legal limit if you will nobody’s designing their heads to a spec of 250 or 252 that’s just not because again if you have a plus of M plus or minus of five and you design

It to 250 well you could have 245 to 255 you get a point or two of creep now you got a n it’s not worth it right I mean it’s just this one this one strikes me as is silly at best and it it does feel

Like it’s kind of an end around because we know the USGA hasn’t love that that people are using the tolerance as a loophole they want everybody designing to 239 and we know everybody’s CT targets are in the 240s mid 240s uh thing is as much as as much as everybody

Or there’s a lot of persistent belief like that the tour players get the hotter heads in a lot of cases tour CT starts lower because one they got plenty of speed right they’re and and a few CT points either way is not a big deal it’s

10 C points T CT points for a half a mile an hour of ball speed typically plus or minus so intends a lot of creep so right so and the other thing to keep in mind like the the tour guys they start off slower because they don’t want

To creep past nobody wants to have to take a gamer driver out of play before a tournament so they’re checked all the time and so you know the these it feels like just a way to push everybody back down to 239 which is fine this is not again because it takes you

Know quite a bit of CT to to generate any real speed difference right again I I feel like this is just an end around to get people back in line I think it’s almost pointless because it’s it’s not going to be an issue with the tour level because again we’re starting lower we’re

Testing frequently we’re staying under that that 257 number uh consistently so yeah maybe maybe it keeps guys like you and me from inadvertently running into a slightly hot driver and if that’s the objective to make sure Chris niichel doesn’t have a driver that that’s closer

260 or 240 okay but right yeah right and enjoy that one step step on the fair I was going to say we’re talking at most about one step so don’t worry about it but the other one they snuck in there was this idea of driver performance on

On offc Center hits right and again these were kind of like areas of inquiry like hey this is something we might want to look at or address or whatever where it’s like yeah we know that what we’ve been trying to do is you know that whole

Idea this goes way back right the whole idea of 830 core or you know hey maximum performance on Center face hits we’ve been there for a long long time but it’s like how can we get off-center strikes to perform as close as possible to on Center strikes through things like

Variable face thickness strategies bulge and roll designs types of material thickness of faces blah blah blah blah blah High Moi why put this in there what what do you think the USG is thinking or why this one this one is like of of all the dumb [ __ ] that’s come out of this

Potentially you know what what they’re talking about doing this is the one that really scratches me has me scratching my head and if I go back to again the LA golf statement from Reed Dickens was one of the things he said right the USG has consistently worked to make the game

Harder for amateur golfers this one you’re going to increase Moi because why because average golfers are hitting it too straight too consistently I I can’t imagine again that there’s a valid argument to support that so and next you’re saying oh well is it is a problem

On tour I mean how how much are you wanting to even think about rolling this back because we’ve talked about this right 5900 the limit for your heel toe twisting right how how many if you look at the drivers that are played on tour the vast majority and yeah we you know

We’ve talked about hinted at at what Ping is working on with with the 10K and you know there’s some other stuff stuff coming into that Uber High Moi space but by and large and yes there are exceptions and by exceptions I mean a few guys but right High Moi is not

Getting played on tour there are way more TSR 3s than TSR 2s for example or one for that matter right these guys are not they’re not pushing thei limit becausei really benefits you as you move away from the center of the face on your impact and and while yeah everybody on

Tour misses sometimes by varying degrees they’re way more in the center of the face way more often than you or I so they don’t really need thei it’s a reason why you know stealth Plus for example relatively low Moi has driver has had plenty of tour play uh Cobra LS

Drivers again you know these these tend to be built for speed for low spin for distance but not for forgiveness and so the idea that we’re going to look at forgiveness right which is something that not universally but by and large benefits amateurs and has minimal impact

At the tour level on the driver I again I don’t get it like this one this one I’m like this is exactly you know if you were looking to support the argument from Reed Dickens that the uxga is actively seeking ways to make the game more difficult for average players this

Be pretty good one yeah pretty good one yeah Henrik Stenson and his strong three-wood that he used for a good bulk of his career and didn’t bag a driver would like a word on the difficulty of hitting like again you take this look at the center look at the center of the

Face on any tour players 3-wood or fivewood they don’t yeah they miss it yes of course they miss it but the reality is they’re they’re not missing it the way that the rest of the world is missing it and they don’t again you could give them

A mini driver give the guys in tour a mini driver give them a 10° 11° mini driver that’s 250 290 CC’s and they’re going to figure out how to optimize it they’re going to figure out how one the things we talked about right there’s there’s nothing in a mini driver

Design inherently that makes it shorter right a little less forgiving but I mean these guys are going to hit the center of face with that too they’re going to aerodynamic than D you know we some people like well what about limiting driver size as you said more aerodynamic

So now you have a driver that they swing faster because the USGA chases tail in some other way and again that’s doesn’t seem to be what they’re going to do but that’s one of the arguments like sure you know shrink the driver we’ll make sure they swing it

Faster right and it’s going to be interesting stick around people because we got more equipment more things all that stuff but as far as brand new equipment we’re we’re gonna have a lot of equipment stuff to talk about Tony in 2024 starting with pretty much the first week

In in 2024 so if there first two weeks in January are bangers bangers bangers bangers so make sure that you like subscribe all that kind of stuff so you get the news in your inbox right away because we will be coming fresh with hot takes as per

Usual if you need anything have any questions post them in the comments below until next time we Out h