This week, the top skaters outside of Europe headed to Colorado Springs to battle the altitude at the 2023 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships. Kao Miura and Keegan Messing both skated spectacular performances for a stunning end of the men’s competition. The Ice Dance Academy of Montreal swept the dance event with Chock and Bates winning gold, Fournier Beaudry and Sorensen winning silver, and Lajoie and Lagha winning bronze. Haein Lee, Yelim Kim, Isabeau Levito, Bradie Tennell, Amber Glenn, Mone Chiba and Rinka Watanabe highlighted the women’s event. Riku Miura and Ryuichi Kihara won gold in pairs, Emily Chan and Spencer Howe earned silver and Deanna Stellato and Maxime DesChamps earned bronze. We also discuss Doug Mattis, Frank Carroll and Jamie Sale on the latest edition of ‘This and That’.
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40 Comments
Timestamps (in progress)
Sad FS News
– 0:56 Doug Mattis passed away 🙁
– 2:22 Frank Carroll has cancer 🙁
3:18 4CC
– 3:47 Isabeau Levito
– Side conversations
– 7:12 USGYM YouTube vs USFS
– 9:01 Colorado location and high attitude
– 10:28 Increasing demanding
– 14:47 Mental Health
– John Luke
– 15:16 Isabeau
– 19:04 Trusova
– 21:30 Dave’s story on firing Galina last year
– 23:18 Green/Parson world spot
– 24:36 Twisties
– 25:30 koyada
– 26:57: Megan’s comment on why USFS so focus on 3 spots
– 28:26 Ice Dance
– 28:48 Marjorie/Zachary
– 31:54 Laurence/Nikolaj
– 33:59 Chock/Bates
– 40:16 Green/Parson
– 45:05 Carreira/Ponomarenko
– (46:09 Side Conversation on Titanic 3D)
– 47:32 Men
– 48:20 Kao Miura
– 48:50 Keegan Messing
– 50:10 Boyang Jin / Tracy Wilson 🙂
– 52:03 Jun hwa cha
– 55:22 Shun Sato
– 55:58 Mikhail Shaidorov
– 56:38 Jimmy Ma
– 59:46 Maxim Naumov
– 1:01:08 Conrad Orzel
– 1:01:54 Stephen Gogolev
– 1:02:28 Liam Kapeikis
Dave – Kristen Spours is going to Worlds, not Natasha.
Jonathan- Green & Parsons beat Carreira/Ponomarenko in the FD by 4 points but were 10 points behind in the RD so stayed 5th.
I didn't like Chock & Bates music for either program but the FD choreo and performance was stunning, like a modern Dance piece of Theatre that you have to admire. Piper/Paul win Rhythm Dance but Chock/Bates win FD and Overall at Worlds.
Canadanes overscored for that schlock 60s naff Western film score. He is not dynamic enough to match her.
26:05 adhd is a trauma response?
First, there seems to be a trend—intended or not—among media to report on many details of an an event only to end without addressing the most obvious question(s). This is compounded on YouTube where the content of a video’s lede is nothing more than click-bait. This and That ALWAYS delivers on both and more, so thank you!
Second—I was watching women’s free skate at the Four Continents (when I could catch it, and now I know why it disappears) with a friend. We both wondered about Isabeau. We’d seen her in the hall, heard her name called, etc., and then . . . no Isabeau. It helped to know that no explanation has been given as to what happened. I hope she is okay. She is such a lovely skater—as original, graceful, and skilled as one could wish for these days.
Which brings me to my 3rd & last point: I finally reached the point of dismay & a bit of boredom with performances due to the fact that I found myself naturally expecting when & what jumps, spins, choreography will occur. I got tired of excessive arm-waving 8 years ago. Most aggravating to me, tho, are those gorgeous, heart-soaring glides that cut out just as your mouth begins to open. It’s like really bad 4-play! I think a woman at the Canadian Nationals did a long one, and I nearly burst into tears.
So, again, thank you for addressing all this! I feel affirmed, confirmed, and supported!
Now I will watch the rest of your video.
Take good care of your very good selves—you are appreciated!!!!
I think a level of nuance missing here is that COVID has possibly changed global baseline pulmonary/cardiac health among athletes. Research shows it's a vascular illness capable of causing systemic endothelial damage, regardless of the severity of infection. Whether this will improve over time or the extent of that change is not yet clear. That impact may not be seen equally either; for example, Jin Boyang has had COVID twice but may not have had access to Paxlovid or updated mRNA vaccines because he is from China. His system may be struggling more than others to compensate now.
Are altitude comps as safe as pre-COVID? Nobody knows. Our leaders are not educating the public about this reality. Colorado competitions have always had the altitude reputation, but personally, I think it speaks for itself that so many athletes either collapsed or left the ice with blue lips. I totally agree about the tech content requiring reflection at this point. This the post-COVID world. Whether we're ready to confront it is another question…
My soapbox thing is I think (outside of dance, where it may be needed), the jumping disciplines should get rid of level 4. It just encourages overwrought elements and not letting the program breathe. We need to go back to shorter but more effective step sequences and spins that allow each position to breathe for a good number of revolutions without being forced (much less this new thing of having to do some difficult exit).
This competition also just kind of made me miss the old component system. For me, I always thought of performance and interpretation as different; performance kind of relates to whether you executed the program to its maximum and were invested, whereas interpretation is about artistic nuance and timing and expression. That said, I guess the change doesn’t matter because the judges just have the scores correlate across components anyway.
Finally, I think the Canadians were just leagues ahead of C/B here. I hate that we have to pretend that they aren’t (just like we had to pretend Hawayek/Baker are only 10th best or whatever it is they got at the Olympics).
High altitudes are not for everyone, I suffered all day and night in Aspen. I thing you guys forget the earth is changing rapidly, many people can't be in the hills too long and now its worst.
I think Boyang had problems other than the altitude. Covid twice, the appendectomy he had been putting off, and he hadn't competed since the Olys. He withdrew from both of his GP assignments this season. Maybe he shouldn't have even skated?
52:17 I felt bad that Junhwan’s focus was thrown off before his short program too…. Just waiting for him to have his moment. Can Tracy whisper some magic in to him before the competition 😅?
This is why we have SafeSport and USAG actually has done better with Li Li as the CEO with ensuring mental health policies and initiatives are followed with coaches.
USFS needs to follow this even more, even if they use SafeSport for allegations of abuse.
It would be much more interesting to watch Greene + Parsons perform to the Jumanji soundtrack at this point.
Why are these coaches ruining their young brand??
Poor Frank 😢
That makes me so sad to hear.
Agreed.
Dave: I hated when NBC played that dumb song throughout the Olympic trials and Olympic coverage to those poor gymnasts, which was narrated by that horrible man Al Trautwig.
I have so much PTSD from that. And I’m sitting in the arena during Grand Prix of Espoo and all these happy Finn’s are clapping to the beat of that song so innocently.
Am I too deep into all of the dynamics of this or what?? Lol
June July August trauma mama
Here’s the real tea on Simone being the GOAT:
It’s like if Michelle Kwan came back and did a quintuple axel and very easily in the short program.
That’s how ahead of her technical programs she was from the entire women’s field during the last quad.
It wasn’t just her vaults and floor exercise routines. Her beam and bars was so difficult and executed brilliantly, that all of us gymnastic queens were watching with our jaws dropped.
And she did all of her routines so easily.
That’s why the GOAT narrative is true to Simone.
I hope Isabeau’s okay. She’s our only hope for worlds podium
Some people pantomime the piano in Gerwin pieces. Some people sniff poppers on Instagram.
Potato. Pohtahto?
1:21:00 regarding Bradie, do you think this was a more appropriate scoring compared with the scoring during nationals?
Agree on the "generically lovely" in the women's event. Of the top ones, only Rinka had a little something special for me. The Koreans are nice skaters, but I mostly am kind of bored by their programs. Young You is the one who actually captures my attention the most of them.
I really appreciated how much time you guys took to discuss and prioritize mental health.
I still can't get behind that music for Marjorie and Zachary. I just don't think it suits her lines. And, agree about the costumes. Very Romeo and Juliet.
I instantly know and remember that Aladdin program, and can picture that springy lutz! ❤
I hate that Marjorie and Zach can’t go to World’s! I absolutely loved them here.
Maybe you're not paying enough attention to the Summertime program. It's not in your face but it's saying a lot.
There’s something about Marjorie…
never forget the 2012 Olympic Home Philip Philips Promos
I'm disappointed you'd discuss mental health and neglect to mention Bridget, especially with the great coverage you did on John. Seeing certain skaters receive overwhelming support from the skating community after working through difficult times while Bridget didn't make it out alive makes me sick.
Bradie's athletic fortitude and artistic expression are a joy to behold.
Exquisite. Indomitable.
The Bradie Ladies of Wisconsin and Virginia, along with her legions of fans all over the world, are happy to stand and applaud her.
19:40 – 20:29 Yes! It is so frustrating how, even though mental health is discussed more now, it seems like these news media outlets don't really seem to understand that processing and healing from whatever someone is going through takes TIME. They are ready to interview or write about someone struggling with their mental health while the athlete is probably in the thick of it to get that inspirational story without much substance. Perspective is everything. Idk if my comment is making sense I just feel like skaters deserve the support and resources for their mental health and I do not think that's the current reality for them. I think that needs to change but given what we know about the sport and how things are run, I'm sadly not super optimistic.
But on a happier note, I love Tracy Wilson lol. She is such a gem
Johnathan's comment at around 21:15 is so right. It's like every time there's a debate about parents spanking kids and a hundred people come out of the woodwork to say "I was spanked as a child and I turned out fine!" when they're clearly not fine
Four continents always feels like a more relaxing watch to me. I really enjoyed watching.
I don't understand the technicalities of ice dance but I had a look at Chock/Bates' free again since you guys have been saying it's gotten better. The concept (which the commentator says is fire and *wind*….not fire and ice), with their costumes and their body choreography all together makes sense to me now. I've not looked at any Instagram explanations or anything, and I get it, and I like it now. I think it makes sense if it's wind, not ice, since it's a totally different kind of relationship!
Skating fans in the Uk are also pretty unimpressed at Kristen going to worlds. It’s sad that the Uk does not have a better singles lady at the moment. I’ve shared the ice with her and it’s not a pretty sight. 😬
Thank you, Jonathan, for stopping a talk about Dai as I didn't want to hear Dave's severe comments when the guy was suffering from lack of oxygen.
You want to go crazy for current skating, watch the World Figure Sport skaters. There are videos on YouTube. It's very "old-fashioned" skating but it's mesmerizing. Current elite skating just doesn't have this quality; they're just dashing around between the technical elements and grabbing their blades on the spins.
Why will isabeau's technique fail in time? I can get some insight into this from someone. thanks
I do have to wonder if Boyang's switch to Orser and Wilson is three or four years too late. He was supposed to have moved to that camp in 2018, but it never happened for whatever reason. Now, I wonder if it's too late.
Tracy❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
japanese skating federation answered that they were not allowed to provide oxygen masks because of doping protocols.
I've been an ardent figure skating fan since I saw the Carruthers skate in '84 (I was 6!) I never had the opportunity to skate myself, but I LOVE it. However, it is getting harder and harder to watch skating AND enjoy it. I HATE this current system and what it has forced skaters to become. I don't want to see emaciated abused girls skating the same program. I hate that a wonderful talent like Isabeau has a question mark hanging over her head because of her technique and coach. I hate that the IOC is wavering on the Russians. I hate that the sport is sacrificing quality in the pursuit of ……of what?
Guys, it has been tragic that Russian coaches have focused on the "Olympic cycle."
I won't go into the delusory presumptions that cause this, other than to complain on how US media give little attention to the intensive daily performing art that is figure skating unless it is Olympic year buildup.
Physical and cognitive development, including highly individually variable emotional and social development, ARE to a significant extent, determinate in our, as in every species.
Health and nurturance are factors involved in his development.
Remember that at best we are not cognitively mature until age 25. So the mental heallth you speak of, while subject to filling individual developmental lacunae (gaps, but gap does not adequately picture the many connections involved in the WHOLE person – and we develop throughout life) that must be assisted in order to flourish, in a competitive skater, is natural to us as beings with minds that are primarily shaped and concerned with sociality and being connected to others.
Always remember that surpassingly important "I- You" relationship when present with or referring to others.
Objectivity is useful for specific evaluations, but are best reserved for considerate "I – You" exposition & fixing.
We humans are often too involved in comparison. The word invidious means jealous. We can, unless caring for whomever we are with at the moment, indulge for spcial hierarchical reasons