During the final round of the Champions Cup, Kristen Tattar had her 9-year-old daughter caddying for her. According to PDGA rule 3.05 B, “A caddie must be at least 13 years of age.” Disc Golf Network commentator Elaine King noticed this situation and decided to contact a friend on the card (Paige Pierce’s caddy) to let the card know what was happening. The situation was handled and no penalties were assessed, however, yet another light has been shown on a growing issue in professional disc golf – consistent and fair rules enforcement at our major tournaments. Let us know what you think!
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21 Comments
I believe Elaine had nothing but pure intentions and was only trying to help. Regardless, it doesn’t seem right for an outsider, who isn’t playing or staffing the event, to interfere in any way whatsoever. That’s the only thing Elaine did wrong, IMO.
What about all the wives,husbands, boyfriends or girlfriends that tag along but don't caddie? No difference.
I can’t disagree more! The way disc golf puts the power with the card is the best rules enforcement in sports and is also part of the drama that makes it fun to spectate. Do not change anything about rule enforcement but Elaine was out of line!
#1. I agree wholeheartedly. The players should be focused on playing. Not rule enforcing.
Are any of them schooled in the rules? Do they have to pass a test of local rules before playing??
At this level of play and cashouts, rule enforcing should be done by the refs and umpires
just like any other Professional sport.
#2. How did a 9 yr old get a caddie badge?? Was it issued to someone else and then given to the 9 yr. old??
#3. The onus was on Tattar to first find out what the rule was and then follow it.
She was very lucky that she wan't disqualified.
#4. I also agree that the refs should get paid more OR get a percentage of the purse.
I wonder what a major league baseball ref gets paid?? Or even a PGA ref.
On her practice round in Emporia, Kona was asking whether the OB line was on the inside or outside of a brick wall (hole #1).
That could be the difference between 1st and 2nd place.
The "rules" should not be up for interpretation by the players.
I've been thinking that they need to put foot fault detectors on all the pads.
Refs, also check equipment. How often do baseballs get replaced.
IMHO Mcbeth should have been allowed a second shot on the playoff hole because of the faulty tee pad or the tee pad should have been inspected before play commenced.
I've changed my mind about Elaine King now that I understand more about her situation. I now believe that she did the right thing. I just question why she didn't say anything on hole 1 when she was commenting about Tattar's daughter.
So if one argues that the players should enforce rules, shouldn't that lead to the fact the players must first know the rules?
And, if Tattar knew the rules, why then did she violate one of them?
Maybe all touring professional disc golfers should be required to pass a rules test.
There is no greater honor than to have your kiln by your side, learning and participating in what the parents do. I think Elaine was just extremely jealous. In no way was the daughter giving tattar a competitive edge.
Because tournament directors issued the caddy card to her daughter the tournament directors broke the rules so would let it fly, also remember in disc golf you get a warning, so she wouldn't have been penalized.
I think lead card should have four referees, Chase card have two and if anybody's making a move behind that have one person. Rules need to be enforced or eliminate the rule. Simple. They made the rule to help keep the sport organized and professional so enforce the rules.
So, as a collegiate ultimate player turned disc golf player I see a lot of similarities in both sports. There's been a lot of back in forth in both sports on whether or not there is need for official mediation and referring or not.
The argument comes down to typically 2 sides…
1. If we want the sport to be taken seriously and really grow as a competitive game there has to be unbiased 3rd party mediation/referring.
2. A lot of the charm and fun of the sports are the kind of the grass roots not just coming to play, but coming to make friends and constructively play against one another in a respectful way. AKA Spirit Of The Game
Ultimate at the highest levels has recently introduced mediators, where if 2 players cannot settle a call on the field the mediator is the final word on the call. So it's somewhat of a halfway between true rule enforcement and allowing players to engage in spirt of the game. A mediator will never call a foul unless a player in the game calls it first.
Yeah I dont agree. The TD gave her the caddy card for 1. 2. It was called out by a commentator, who was friends with the caddy of THE PLAYER IN SECOND PLACE, who at that point was down by 2 strokes. It obviously effected Kristen's game because she said after she won Jonesboro she cried about it privately. This whole thing reeks of conspiracy, and I have lost all respect for Elaine. But hey at least Paige got another major, which I suspect is what Elaine wanted.
Ugh – the death knell of the Spirit of Disc Golf. When the $$$$$$s get involved, the sport gets ruined.
And, I'm sorry, but forcing Kristen to stop her 9yr old daughter from caddying for her was a major dick move! Things like that should be celebrated. This incident was exactly the kind of thing that will ruin disc golf.
I think the girl was ok being out with her mom, but if the rules say one thing, then she should have never been permitted to walk. I also agree that the commentators don't have the place to speak up about such rules..not the girls fault or her mother…. personally, I think some people will do whatever it takes to win!!!
I think if you want to bring your daughter with you as a caddie and she can walk why not.
Elaine may have had pure intentions, but her chosen course of action also potentially put Paige's caddie in violation of PDGA rules (3.05 D "Caddies are not part of the player group for the purposes of making group calls or rulings."). She put a caddie in the position of making a ruling on behalf of the card. More importantly, The caddie age requirement rule in particular has everything to do with safety, not with giving one competitor an advantage over another. This is not "Deflategate." Kristin wasn't playing with non-PDGA approved equipment. And I agree it makes sense to require a certain number of Certified Officials on major events especiailly (2 per card? one paid, one volunteer? they stay with the card at all times, and certain rules – like who's caddying for you – are settled before play begins. something like that seems simple enough. refs get paid so little in most sports, I don't think minimum wage would be surprising to anyone interested), but even then we could ask "what happens in any sport if a rules violation goes unnoticed by the officials?" The answer outside of extreme cases is NOTHING (or perhaps a monetary fine. not a suspension or voiding a title, especially for being in violation of a rule that has absolutely no effect on play or outcomes). For ex, if Jeff Van Gundy is on an NBA Playoffs broadcast, and sees Kevin Durant's jersey is untucked (against the uniform dresscode standards) it's not his responsibility – in practice or ethically – to take off his headset during play, go grab a Celtics' assistant coach, and tell them to tell a ref that there was an uncalled rules violation. In this case, the TD should probably be sanctioned for allowing unapproved personnel on the playing field (daughter should've been considered a "spectator"). Kristin asked permission, and was given it. Feels deeply unethical to bring it up during play to anyone outside the broadcast booth.
Rules are rules , top 4 cards should have officials following them, with how much money is on the line now in disc golf
Elaine contacting the caddie of an opposing player to bring up an obscure rules violation was unethical and very poor judgement in my opinion. The TD issued the caddie pass in violation of the rule, so it was on him. Even if it had been discovered at the end, there's no way the TD would have disqualified Kristin for the infraction. That same tournament two other players on MPO lead card had caddies in violation of the rules, yet they went on through the round without issue. A 9 year old child who's in a foreign country with her mom was giving NO competitive advantage to Kristin as she walked with her, and for Elaine to go to the length she did to call it out was unacceptable. You cannot have commentators interfering with the competition no more than you can start allowing any viewer watching the event live to call in and point out rules infractions. Elaine was wrong, plain and simple. The whole situation is a black mark on disc golf at a time when were are becoming more and more visible to those outside of our sport. Disc golf is making huge strides, but we can't have anymore situations like what Elaine did.
I do believe officials on lead and chase cards is going to be necessary as the sport grows.
You could easliy take some die hard disc golf fans in the areas of the tournaments, certify them as officials and when they official they get vip access in the tournament
Worth noting the “caddy age limit” rule is new in 2022, and even the PDGA in their announcement of rule changes titled “PDGA Official Rules of Disc Golf & Competition Manual Updated for 2022” missed it and had to add after it was released at the end “ CORRECTION: the initial version of this piece inadvertently omitted the change to 3.05.B. The change has now been added; we regret the error.” (I tried to link direct to the article but YT didn’t like that, so quoting relevant info)
I would agree rule enforcement is sporadic at best and at a Major worth considering an impartial rules official on lead/chase cards might be a way to combat that.
I would disagree someone (no matter who) calling in a rules violation is the answer (the PGA had a similar situation a couple years back and in 2018 no longer accepts fans calling in rules infractions) as current rules say those calls are by the card or a TD/official
I’m also for getting rid of the “caddy age limit” rule since a player chooses their caddy to represent them and would incur any penalty for infractions they may make (dress code, courtesy, etc.) as rules sated prior to 2022.
Officials on the pro tour makes sense due to the popularity and money on the line. Ultimate has mediators that could be a stepping stone to a full on ref. We still need the self officiating at lower levels.
Texting her friend whos in the same group is bull$#!t. Sounds like she was giving her friend a way out if she lost to her. Shady.
The stick is slowly creeping up disc golf"s ass. Watch out or it might take itself too seriously like ball golf does. I'm glad I didn't drink the kool-aid and get a PDGA # back in the 90's.