Mr.Hogan’s stance allows to locate the downswing vertical axis of rotation in the same place towards the lead ankle joint; the rear foot moves back the longer the club is, makes it finding the bottom of the arc earlier.
The diagonal stance gives a much better base for a human body weight. The bigger surface the base has the easier is to be in balance through the motion and, what is even more important, the easier is to use the ground shear forces comparing to when all body parts are in line with each other. Human feet are very small in relation to the entire body mass that they must keep in balance, especially during such a dynamic motion as the golf swing is.
Observe how Mr.Hogan seeks for a stable stance that would guarantee the most effective usage of the ground forces. A closed toe line, open hips and square shoulders (in relation to each other), a flared lead while a squared rear foot plus different pressure points for both feet – these are the real keys.
Learn more at: http://biokineticgolfswing.blogspot.com
38 Comments
@finster869 Already done, my friend !
did this come out in the five fundamentals? because i dont remember reading this. Most of footage has bad camera angles to actually justify this kind of setup.
@wagaiznogoud Only the original stance diagramme. The rest of info goes out both of Gardner Dickinson's comments on Hogan's stance as well as my researches on biokinetics. The diagonal stance is the most logic one.
@SimpleAz Yes, he did. I presume you ask because in the diagonal stance feet line is closed (like the conventional instruction says when someone asks what to do to draw the ball) – well, the truth is that we should never think that feet are to aim. One should aim with shoulders. Hogan's feet were closed but his hips were open. The allocation of his feetused his feet was the best way to ensure effective usage of ground forces and balance. Try it and you'll never return back.
@1tontomato I know Geoff and his excellent reputation. I don't agree with some issues he teaches but the majority is great stuff.
where in the blue hell did u get that music that is some sweet sounding shit
@kurtoconnel This one is taken from the YT music collection.
@mp3551 Since feet are closed and hips open in relation to the target line, knees must be aligned something in between; for the diagonality of the stance is the biggest with the driver (rear foot set back the most and hips open the least) , the line of knees must also be a bit closed per se.
yeah, you can see him pulling that back foot as he settles in. The bottom line is set-up really is 90% of the whole thing, it's undeniable.
@TadRapidly Yup; too bad that current golf instruction is so stupid not to notice such crucial issues for a human motion.
So Mr. Hogan had the weight on his left heel at address and on his right ball of his foot with the rest of the clubs, do I understand that right? That's how he got his right knee in that position at address, I never noticed that before, the weight distribution. That puts the right leg in a much stronger position.
@steviecom Yes, although I meant not only weight per se but also the dynamic pressure. As Mr.Burke says, Hogan set up often with the rear heel slightly off the ground (or without any pressure). It is a very important component of the diagonal stance concept.
And yes again, strong rear side built from the ground up is crucial to create automatism of passing from backswing to downswing phase. I recommend to you to watch the SPC concept video. All LEGO pieces matches ideally.
@h1e2x3 ….In 5 Fundamentals Mr. Hogan says the weight should be towards the heels at address but with his heel off the ground of his right foot the weight received from the turn will accept as much as it can throughout the whole foot, putting the right leg in a much stronger position. If weight is on heels at beginning it's much less inconsistent, weaker, and not as dynamic.Some driver swings look like the left leg is very slightly bent or even stiff putting the weight towards his heel.
@steviecom Yes, a very good point. Great observations.
My favorite Mr. Hogan quote, when ask about muscle memory, ''muscles ain't got no memory they do what I tell them to do.'' Swinging a golf club is not like walking, or seeing, or heartbeats, but Mr. Hogan believed the golf swing to be a unnatural act. People don't think automatically also like a heart beats, the mind untrained is out of control and gives in to the whims of the moment, illusions, emotions, the mind is blank in most people. I really think Mr. Hogan was conscious of every position.
@steviecom Yes, that's why partial automatism can be obtained only thanks to hard structure of the body. Hence, the theory of natural limitations comes into force. Another great comment, Stevie.
His swing changed over time, including his set-up and post-accident. It's hard to pick a swing, with the terrible 'off-line' camera angles too, as a 'datum', or a 'base-line'. We also don't know what he intended to do with the shape of the ball-flight on any of these shots, nor where he was aiming, nor if he mis-hit it. He wasn't infallible, and much has been written on the basis he was. Much of the footage, if not all, is too out of focus and doesn't follow the result of the shot to analyse it.
With this set up, do you rotate your hips open as far as you can to the left while still maintaning the square shoulders?
Also, is the set up the same for bunker shots? Weight also the same?
Lastly, at the set up, is the weight on the left heel and right ball and the right heel has no weight on it and then when you turn, the weight goes onto the right heel?
Did hogan do a move where he bowed the left wrist at adress to make the clubface square? Should I do this move?
ad.a. No, just slightly open.
ad.b. I use it for each shot so that I don't need to change anyrhing;
ad.c. there is weight on rear heel at setup but it's increasingly bigger with the progress of backswing; you need to feel the pressure your rear heel exerts into the ground;
ad.d. I cannot answer this question since I am not Hogan; I claim this happens naturally — read the Omne Trium Perfectum article on my blog.
Thx. Sorry. I meant do you think hogan bowed his left wrist at the start of the downswing to make square contact?
Also, is ball position the same with all clubs and is it just inside left heel?
No, definitely not at the start of his downswing; it can be easily seen the dorsal flexion remains longer;
Yes. All inside left heel for LED persons, all a bit more centered for RED persons.
I have always naturally done this with woods
The easiest way to get into this setup is to face the target with an open chest then point the club face square and take a neutral grip. It will feel like the club face is wide open and your grip will most likely look weak. Continue to keep your hips and knees open and adjust your feet to what feels parallel – the rear foot square and lead foot flared open. They will actually be a bit closed to the target line. Your shoulders will naturally square themselves upon this maneuver. You will feel dynamic tension from the ground up and a readiness for the swing motion. Read more details at Dariusz's site that he has linked in the description above.
Golf is Zen.
Awesome material. Would love to hear your thoughts on Trevino and his open stance. Post Hogan not sure who else controlled the ball like he did. Thanks for any insight in advance.
I use the closed stance just like the diagram, but in the diagram all shots are played of the left heel. This is fine for the driver, but as my stance narrows the ball moves away from the left heel, and with a wedge I play the ball from the middle of the stance.
Who was this made for, the Illuminati?
Excellent video!!
Much like Mr Hogan when he first started, I fight a hook or sometimes a pull shot. Playing the stance back or closing the stance creates a hitting over the back scenario that makes a pull shot a straight shot. This is just good ball striking 101, took years to figure this out.
This overhead diagram is not what is in Hogan's book.
Relaxing music
Caution: Use this stance only if you want to play golf with perfect coronal plane balance without thinking about it.
Moe Norman created a move with far less moving parts that produced equal or better results!
I think it is important to note that Ben Hogan occassionally struggled with a nasty hook. This would then make sense to have the front foot flared as it allows one to more naturally come across the ball, encouraging a fade. If you struggle with a slice, you may wish to consider the opposite, flaring your back foot and keeping your front foot neutral, supporting an in-to-out swing path.
Hogans shoulders are open compared to his feet, not square. Both shoulders are always square to one another by the geometric definition of a line with two points. A good video nonetheless that demonstrates Hogan's method.
it's like an open and closed stance bottled into one.
That picture you show of the stance is not from Hogans book, you’re showing square stance on short irons, Hogan was open.
Is it me or does it look like Ben opens the club face wide open at address?