In this episode of The Confessional, Roger Mitchell sits down with Eddie Pepperell, one of golf’s most thoughtful and unconventional voices, for a probing and thought-provoking conversation about the game and his own motivations within it. Both Roger and Eddie are known for speaking the truth without filter, and this comes out fully in what is a remarkable conversation that will for sure polarise opinions. Sponsored by PEDL Labs.
Welcome to the confessional, the new show from Are You Not Entertain? Brought to you by Pedal Labs, who are rewriting the playbook for fan engagement, most recently with the groundbreaking Connected British and Irish Lions jersey in collaboration with Connected Fanatics, proof that the future of sport is already here. In this series, Roger Mitchell is joined by a series of remarkable guests for conversations that tackle the questions most people avoid. raw, revealing, and never predictable. If you want the kind of insight and honesty you simply won’t find anywhere else, then join Roger for questions and answers that rarely see the light of day. Welcome everybody to another edition of the confessional. is becoming a little bit of a special podcast because we bring on what I think are very human people to tell us a little bit more about themselves beyond what we already know. Today we’re really lucky. We’ve got Eddie Pero who’s a bit of a favorite son of this podcast. Um become very friendly with with Grant and and we’re always looking out for for what he achieves. Eddie without doubt is one of the most interesting and nuanced sports people in the world. Uh I would also say he’s probably considered one of the greatest talents of his generation by his peers. Um he’s 34 now. Uh he should be coming into the peak of his career. But one of the interesting things we want to talk about today is that at least to some people, certainly me, he seems to have fallen out of love a little bit with the the sport that he embraced at 16 or earlier, but became professional at that age directly from school. and um he’s he’s agreed to come on so generously because when he regained his tour card last week uh with a storming finish with the last four holes, there was a an interview that went viral because Eddie explained a little bit the the challenges of the last few years. And um I just really admire this this this boy, this lad, if I can say that. I’m I’m a lot older so I can still say that. Um I really admire what he’s done. He’s outlooking life. I write about him a lot, use him a lot in my columns. And um I think we’re going to have a good chat to try and understand a little bit if we are about to see what they call these days a redemption arc or not and how how he sees what he’s done in the last week and how it’s affected so many people which it has. So So Eddie Pero, welcome to the confessional. Thanks for having me on, Roger, and a lovely introduction. Not sure I’m worthy of all of those comments, but uh I do appreciate them. Well, I I think I think you are uh and and this is there’s a little bit of pressure on this this interview because people have got expectations that in some way we’ll have a conversation that um is is different. I’m sure we will. Uh but we we’ll use the format of the six questions and see where it takes us. I have no idea where it’ll go. I think that’s part of your charm. People are never really sure. Um I spoke by the way to a lot of people in the sector um players are known about this um in the last year or so. I’ve spent quite a bit with time in in in the golfing world. So I’ve got to know quite a few people and and asked them so who is this guy Eddie Pero? So that will come through a little bit. There’ll be no names mentioned but the themes were quite consistent. So, I’m going to I’m going to get right into this. Well, I know you’ve spent a little bit of time on the lift tour, so I’m worried about what those answers may may have been. Oh, he’s a bit of a tosser. Um, no, no, no, never. I mean, I think the likability is universal and and maybe maybe that’s one of the issues. Let’s let’s see. Let’s see what comes up here. Let’s go into question number one. For what and to whom do you need to ask forgiveness, Eddie? Um, well, that’s a a tough question. And I I thought about this a little bit yesterday, and truthfully, um there really has only been one niggling regret that stuck in my mind over the years as I’ve throughout my career. Um which I suppose isn’t very many, but and and don’t get me wrong, I’ve made many mistakes professionally, certainly arguably on Twitter with certain comments over the years, but I don’t regret any of that. I’ve never regretted any of my own actions in that sense in in the I may have been personally affected in some way. I I don’t find them regrettable. That’s just part of life. But one thing that I did do, I remember when I was very young, just turned professional. And this will tie into one of the later questions too, I think, is um I was with a management company and and it things were coming to an end and uh and I didn’t particularly like the the lead guy actually. I’m not going to name any names, but I was down to do a golf day at the end and um I’d informed them pre-doing the golf day prior to the day that I was going to be leaving the company at the end of the year. And so they took away that opportunity from me and I ended up getting into a bit of a legal dispute all off the back of my own spite. Um slightly vengeful streak plus um bit of poor advice I think and and I always regretted that. I don’t know why. It’s not it’s not a big issue. It’s not a big thing. Um but it was always one thing that just stuck in my mind. I think because a little bit in the sense that I it was very antithetical to my nature to do what I did. And um and I’ve and I’ve always just thought when it comes to making those types of judgments um always do what you want to do. Uh and that’s not entirely what was the what happened back then. And um you know and yeah so it’s a quite specific and very small uh example of maybe a regret but uh that those people that person in question it was someone that I would ask for forgiveness if if um I was to encounter them again I guess. Thank you. I’m going to put a flag on uh things I want to do myself. That was a theme that did come out from all the people I spoke to. Adjectives like headstrong, even stubborn. Um not great at accepting other advices because he thinks he can work it out himself. Let’s let’s park that for a minute. Um do you know do you know what I hoped you would say Eddie on this on this one here? You remember that film Goodwill Hunting? Do you you know that film? I’ve not seen it, but I’ve seen the famous clip with I mean Matt Damon and uh and Robin Williams. Yeah. There’s another clip in it where the two the two protagonists, Matt Damon and Ben Effleck, who are childhood mates, and Ben Effle is just a normal bloke, a laborer, and and and Matt Damon is obviously somebody else. and they’re they’re at lunch uh chatting away and um uh Ben Affleck says to Matt Damon um so what are you going to do with your life and he says I’m going to do what you’re going to do I’m going to have a normal life we’ll have kids we’ll go to little league and everything like that and Matt and Ben Affleck starts to push back and say um nah nah you can’t do that and Matt Damon says oh don’t give me this I owe it to myself and my talent to make something better in my And Ben Affleck says, “No, you don’t owe it to yourself. You owe it to us. You owe it to us. Because if you’re still here doing in 30 years what I’m going to do, cuz I’ve got no choice, you need to ask forgiveness of these guys here cuz they’ve got no choice and you do.” So, it’s a long- winded way of saying, Eddie, I think you need to ask for forgiveness to all us golfers around the world who don’t have anything like your talent and you haven’t managed yet to fulfill all of that talent. Everybody says nobody hit the ball at you. Uh, your best ball striker, best iron play. Do you not feel you a little you need to ask a little bit of forgiveness of the people that were weren’t given that gift that maybe are doing a wee bit better than you just now? Um not necessarily because I think that some of those um things you may have heard are not going to say entirely untrue, but I don’t think they’re entirely true either. And golf is a very very complex sport and game. And uh and there are reasons beside application of time and energy as to why a player might actually struggle. Um I’ve seen that. I’ve seen players work very hard and get very little for that. And I’ve seen the vice versa occur. And so it tells me that there isn’t this linear relationship in a sport like golf where application and dedication necessarily leads to great output or performance. and and I though I think it’s true of me to say over time that I’ve probably put a bit less in um I’ve still had moments and periods where I’ve put an awful lot in and got very little out of it. So, it’s it just to me points to the complexity of the sport and uh and that’s why I have a very um maybe unlike yourself, but I I I’m particularly not hard on golfers who suffer because I think I’ve seen it in myself that it’s very easy to struggle as a professional golfer and not reach the performance that maybe you expect of yourself and possibly other others expect from you. Um yeah, Betty, I’m not I’m not talking about application. I’m I’m the reasons we will maybe explore over these six question. I’m not talking about that. I I don’t think anybody’s in fact it’s almost the opposite. You know, one could say you’ve over tinkered, you’ve overthought about it. Uh you know, everybody says, everybody knows that you’re a very very intelligent guy, but there’s a flip side to that. You can’t switch the brain off. Um, golf at the end of the day is about monotony, about volume, about consistency. And in some ways, the more boring you are, the more successful you can be. And and and you you’ve not got that. You know, you you can’t turn your brain off. And and and that that’s why I’m saying and whoever you have to ask forgiveness for, you haven’t worked that out yet. And that makes us all very very frustrated. Well, yeah. Yeah, it makes me more frustrated, let me tell you. Uh, and I think that But does it does it make you frustrated? Do you still Well, I think I’m I mean, as I as I observe and reflect upon my behavior this year in particular on the golf course, I would have to say unequivocally the answer to that is yes, because I’ve had moments of immense frustration to the point where it’s become self harm. And I’ve talked about this on our podcast a number of times and I don’t make light of that issue. Um and it’s not something I do away from golf but in and around the golf course and in and around golf rounds this year. There have been many aspects of uh times of this year where I’ve I’ve done such things and so yeah I think the frustration is felt within me massively this year. I I I acknowledge the um you know the underperformance in relation to my potential talent is there. It’s a thing. It’s frustrating. it’s annoying me and but at least what I did a week or two ago is it gives me an opportunity to at least resolve some of that as I move forward and gets my foot back in the door and then hopefully I can restart the journey upwards. You know, the reason I asked that it’s not just to be to be difficult and and and seem as if I’m asking tough questions on a podcast. That’s not what the the confessionals are about. There’s just so many quotes that that that that I read about you that um sometimes you think what does he actually want? You know, you know, there there there’s one I found there’s one I found um uh I enjoy writing. It was one of the reasons I was hopeful I would be playing less golf in 2026. What’s that all about, Eddie? Well, I think um as I’ve come to realize over the last year or two as I’ve experienced a degree of burnout and I would point to a episode uh probably 18 months ago in the summer of 24 where I I think at a golf tournament I probably have for the first time in my life a bit of a breakdown and um and that was a very unusual event um a moment for me um at a golf tournament. So at that moment I I realized there is an imbalance within me uh and it’s been creeping up across time. It could simply be burnout or it could simply be something deeper within reaching up and pulling you down into a form of depression and saying no no you’re you’re fundamentally doing something in congruent with your true nature and that’s something that I do feel is true with me and and so when I rest and when I take some time away from golf and I restore certain things energy eat better spend a bit more time in the sun spend a bit more time with Jen being present with the dogs all of these things the effect the net effect of them is that I feel much more um grounded and balanced within myself and I prefer that person I prefer who I am in that moment than the person I become when I’m around golf and then back on that hamster wheel of chasing better performance etc and so yeah that’s why I I was um the big challenge for me next year is accepting that I’m I’m staying on the hamster wheel and I need to find a way of not self harming next year I need to find a way of achieving a better balance while simultaneously playing the game is of golf and trying to do that well. But um it’s become increasingly difficult for me over time. And that’s something that I would accept to be I think true. And I’m unafraid to admit that. And um and I’m 34, you know, I’m not I’m not 24 anymore. I think the body and the brain and the psyche just just breaks down in different ways now a decade on. And that will be even that will be true in when I’m 44. So, it’s it’s I don’t want to get to a point where, you know, I see other golfers and other sports people get to in their mid-4s where their life has broken down as a consequence of them maybe not taking the actions in their earlier years that may have been better for them, if not professionally, quote unquote, because they may not earn the money or whatever, but it was better for them um on a very deep level, if I could if I could say such a thing. No, that’s that’s exactly it’s very a very deep level. We use the phrase hamster wheel. It it begs the question, what has golf been for you? Has it been a means to earn a living and at a certain point a very good living? Um was it an ambition to be the best? What is it that motivates you now, Eddie, going forward at 34? Yeah, that’s a that’s a good question. That’s something I’ve been wrestling with a lot. Um, I do think it’s undoubtedly true of myself that the passion for the game has eroded over time. I’m not going to say it’s completely gone because I think there are pockets of the game which I still have a real desire for and feel motivated to work on. But when I was 10, 16, 20, 25, I would wake up and the first thing I would almost think about is my golf. Whereas now it’s probably not within the first five things. So, it’s become much more, you know, I’ve had to I’ve had to put myself I I need to go and do it as opposed to um the want really. And uh so I I think I think I need to and and I think also I what I’ve been waiting for is for that motivation to come back. Something like Cusco to act as a bit of a fire lighter that that provides the the spark that leads to a bigger flame and ultimately the fire that burns under me that takes me back upwards and forwards. and and you can only wait around for so long. And of course, I think we both know that waiting is no good. You need to make it happen. Um but to try and answer your question, I don’t really know what motivates me with golf. I’m not sure I ever have done. I’ve never been a goal setter. Um I’ve always found goals and trying and achievements largely superfluous. They don’t really mean anything to me intrinsically. It would be a there would be an element of fakery going on just to put something in place to chase. Um, so yeah, I’ve always suffered and struggled with that. Uh, that’s a great answer. But so, so let me ask you then, you you’re in this Q school last week, couple of weeks ago, and you’re looking down the back straight and you know what you need to do and you found something. We come on to what that is in a minute or later, but what what how did you find that, you know, like what gave you the motivation? Was it if I don’t qualify here, my life is at a lower quality because I’m not earning as much. I have to travel economy. What What was the thing that said, “Come on, Eddie. We need four birdies here.” What was the thing that motivated you there? I mean, the I think the first birdie wasn’t really born out of motivation. It was um I was kind of resigned to my fate a little bit in that moment and and quite accepting of it. I just happened to hold a 30ft birdie putt and uh and at that moment I thought well now this is possible because I could definitely birdie the final three. They they weren’t nearly as tough as the 15th hole which I happened to birdie and and I did really take on the moment on that 16th te that was something that I think ultimately led to my emotional interview. I poured an awful lot of energy and intensity into that last three holes those last 45 minutes. Exactly why I did that. There was an element of me coming down the last that didn’t want to do what I did last year where I missed by one. Fell just short. And so I thought I wanted to, as Lori referred to, slay that dragon and and put those demons to bed because that’s a that’s a cool thing to do. But I think a lot of this stuff is I think a lot of this stuff ultimately with me is born out of my mom’s side of of my nature. And that is just this kind of invisible resilience to just keep going. the resolve to just keep going and um not because it’s the inspirational thing to do or the heroic thing to do simply because that’s just what you do and she’s Irish and I see that in a lot of Irish people there is a resolve there’s a toughness in you know in that cohort of people and I think that’s in me and um and I think that was probably just an example of that coming coming through and and I think that’s why I what I admire in a Rory Maroy for example and I would also say I admire in a Chris Wood you couldn’t look at two players with very different outcomes in their career, but I still see this immense resolve in both individuals that I fundamentally have such a huge degree of respect for. So, I think that’s probably present in me, but I’m I’m not doing it to be the hero. I just do it because I think that’s kind of who I am to a large degree. Who who you are. One of the comments I did get these days um was this Eddie wears um his personality and who he is on his sleeve and he hasn’t managed to develop um an onc course personality, a game face. Um shut off whatever you are every other day and just do whatever the motivation is, whether you just been a great pro or whether it’s ambition or whatever. you carry everything of your complexity as a character onto the golf course and this is a sport that doesn’t reward that. Is that fair? I I don’t know. I would answer that. I’d say not entirely because I do think I’ve been able to achieve that at points in my career where I have been very um into the game and competitive and taken the moment on and separated myself off the course from on the course. However, to play devil’s advocate to what I’ve just said there, I’ve never seen myself as a golfer. So why should I act any differently on a golf course? You know, golf. You need to wear Eddie. You need to do that. Yeah, but I Well, yeah, but I I’ve always seen I’ve never seen myself as a golfer and I’ve said this many times. I just see myself as a a fellow person like yourself. Happens to play golf for a living. Um but I don’t see myself I don’t bracket myself in that way. And I like to um I like to think about the world and other things. And that’s who I Yeah. But but so do I. So So do I. I mean, you know me relatively well. not as well as Gran, but we we’ve got a zillion different interests and I did different topics of conversation if we were so minded. But at the end of the day, I am a normal person. Let’s be clear here. I don’t have any elite talent. I’ve never competed at the highest level in anything. I I’m not an outlier in anything I do. But um even in my mundanity like this, there’s moments where I say I I’m going to show this other person that um he wasn’t as gifted, she wasn’t as gifted. It’s just a kind of like I I need to show you even for myself, even if it means nothing. But you you just strike me as you you you don’t care about that that that bit of it. Is that is that right? Um no, I I don’t know. I I’ve always been competitive. I mean, I’ve always enjoyed the competition. Um, I still do. I mean, when I think for those who watch me out on the golf course, they would they would probably see a different Eddie. Um, so I I don’t think that’s quite right. Um, to be honest with you, I just think because I’m so open about my other thoughts. Um, there’s this perception that that starts to come into place and and I I think I’m much more alike than different every other professional golfer, including those you spoke to. um it’s just you pick up on differences and you and that’s what we do in life and so the perception starts to increase and narratives get put into place and then all of a sudden he’s a very different person. I don’t know that I am. I just think that I think performance and is far more complex and um yeah, I think we could be having a very different conversation through you know just a few different flaps of a butterflyy’s wing a few years ago and not a lot would have been different within me but the outcome would have been massively different and so it would have driven a different conversation. Um that’s there’s no criticism in this from me. You know what you what you’ve said about balance in life and and you know I I’ve run into a lot of people at my stage in life who’ve been extremely successful moneywise maybe not so much sport but also there and and the regret about the sacrifices they made to get there. They will never get rid of um you know successful business people that didn’t see their kids growing up um lost their marriages. all of these things that you know sport at your level, elite performance is about sacrificing single-mindedness. So you not having that is a is a positive for me. Let’s be clear about that, Eddie. Um, however, however, um, it’s incredibly frustrating to hear you at 34 talking about a hamster wheel, talking about you’re not sure you’re a golfer, cuz we all know that if you put your mind to it, you you could be a top 10 player, but you’re not willing to put your mind to it. Uh, well, I I I I would push back on that, but um the podcast probably isn’t long enough to exact, you know, I I I I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that. Um, I think I put in more than enough I think over the years I’ve put in more than enough time, energy, passion, single-mindedness to have had a better career than I’ve had. Um, and again I just make the point the reasons that the career hasn’t been quite as good as maybe it should have been in some people’s eyes is just points to the complex picture of golf and uh and and other sports the same. And um that doesn’t bother me clearly the way it bothers some. Um but uh you know I I would I would push back. I think I think there is an awful lot of sort of single-mindedness in me and sacrifice that’s been put in place over the years. Um, I mean maybe slightly less so in the last couple of years, two or three years postcoid, but nonetheless still plenty of it. Um, and I just haven’t been able to to quite figure out the puzzle. Uh, and and that’s fundamentally what it is. I asked that I I asked that of people. Why hasn’t Eddie been able to figure out the puzzle? What do you think they said? And it was all consistent. What do you think they came back? Basically a stranger, not not a friend. So they were they were relatively cold in their answer. What what do you think they said to to explain exactly that? Well, I suspect that he maybe hasn’t let enough people in. He hasn’t taken enough advice from others who probably know exactly what it would take. Um I I’ve definitely pissed around too much. You know, certainly with regards to my golf swing, I haven’t spent enough time and I touched on this on a recent blog. I haven’t spent enough time doing the same thing overtime. But I would just on that say and I remember Potrick Harrington telling me and us as Walker Cup hopefuls this a long time ago when he was in the midst of his success mid 2000s and he said your ability to do the mundane day in day out will determine how good you become and only a few years later he was hitting drivers off te’s at tournaments as happy Gilmore. Now there’s a very successful golfer who knows exactly what it takes and he couldn’t still do what he knew was right. And so that points to his nature and I think we have similar natures myself and Podrech. We’re curious um and we get bored easily. So it’s a difficult thing to achieve. It just is a difficult thing to achieve and um and I think if I could if I was to have some regrets as it relates to my professional career, it would be not having put people in place for long enough periods of time so that what doesn’t occur is this sort of knowledge gap that I think now has occurred between what’s in my mind and what’s in other people’s mind and bridging that gap becomes difficult as to make progress. That’s exactly what they said. That’s exactly what they said and of course I read those quotes about the knowledge gap. I must admit I didn’t fully understand it. Let me let let me try and read this a little bit. Over the years, my folly around coaching has led to a place where a knowledge gap has opened up. Nobody knows in my mind how best to make me tick because I haven’t allowed that to ever truly occur. And so taking the leap of faith necessary to work with someone who could make me tick feels quite daunting. I should add I have taken these leaps in the past and it has failed miserably. So most of the answers that I got were around the fact that you’re not easy to coach. Um you won’t um commit to a process without starting to tinker with it yourself or try and break it down yourself. You haven’t built a team around you to give you guard rails to protect yourself from yourself. And and then you know you then go on to say about next year. You know, you talked about this year uh Jen was your caddy. That meant that that that you didn’t have any oncourse input. Um which meant you were again doing it all yourself and and you say that you were quite pleased about that. Uh and and you’re slightly worried about what happens next year. A camel is a horse designed by a committee and the longer time goes where you make solely your own decisions, it becomes harder to enact the committee the right way as to not end up with the camel. That could be one of my biggest channels in 2026. Eddie, you know, I think people want me to ask you this. You’re already putting down excuses for 2026. I mean, you’re already writing how the season’s going to go. You want to write more and play golf less. You’re not sure you’re going to be able to work with your caddy. Is that not a mindset thing? Isn’t you’re not already kind of like laying out how it’s going to end next year? No, I think that’s just acknowledging the challenges that I think I will face and um I don’t I don’t think that’s making any excuses personally. Um I think that’s just knowing who you are and uh and if to you know I mean I might not know who I am but uh I think those those comments I think they’re a fairly true reflection of the the challenges that I will face the challenges I’ve faced. um you know working to it’s it’s I’m fundamentally talking there about working with people more effectively and that’s I mean I’m acknowledging what I need to do. Uh that’s not making an excuse for failure in my opinion. Um so yeah that’s the challenge for me and I want to take that on. I mean I I touched on it. I have made you know I’ve worked with coaches in the past. I’ve given them a lot more rope and I’ve taken it on and I can think of two years in particular when I did that and on both of those occasions I lost my card became very lost very quickly. So that’s the leap of faith that I talk about which can fail miserably. There have been other instances in my career in fact when I’ve had most of my success. I have worked with a coach for a period of time in the leadup to those successes. However, within that I’ve taken a large degree of ownership in those periods which then preceded the high level of performance. So it’s it’s finding the balance between taking information in and taking enough ownership off that information as to make it your own and be very good and efficient with it. And that’s something I used to be very good at. much better more so than I am now. And that and that where I fall and foul over the last few years is I’ve spent far too much time trying to figure things out on my own. And it’s and it’s too burdensome. And I recognize that. And I think that’s what I feel when I practice. I get very tired very quickly. Um quite stressed. So you know I’m just I think recognizing my flaws, faults, successes in the past, what I what things I got right and um yeah. Okay, let’s move on to the second question. What’s the deal you wish you hadn’t done? Well, I was going to tie that into my my my first question, the answer to my first question, but that feels quite um small and uh and as we’ve spoken more and more pretty uh inconsequential, I think in the larger picture. So, I would have a hard I would have a hard time answering that question. Um really, yeah. I mean, I I didn’t try to put these answers in context of, you know, guests you had on in the past in terms of deals, etc., quote unquote. And I’m not talking about business deal, but obviously that, you know, that’s often what’s talked about. So, um, yeah, I I I don’t really know. Um, well, let me let me try and help you then because I I I actually thought you that would exact be exactly the situation cuz it is mostly linked to this business or sport. But one of the deals you made and have made is that you have decided to be very generous with your personality on Twitter, on podcasts, on blogs. Do you wish you hadn’t done that now? You’ve come off Twitter. Yeah. Yeah, I have come off Twitter and I don’t miss Twitter. Um, but seemingly what’s replaced that is my podcast and of course before Twitter it was my blog and uh and so seemingly I have a pension for, you know, attention. Um, which is so I I don’t really regret it. I think it’s who I am. I’ve I’ve always had a very hard line with the truth in my mind over the years. It was something that was a commitment I made to myself in my early teens or mid to late teens. I remember listening to Anthony Robbins, a few of his um audio books and they struck a chord. And one of the things they struck, well, the biggest chord that was struck within me was about truth, taking responsibility and never being afraid to look at yourself in the mirror and just tell yourself the hard truths about what who you are, what you are, and what you need to do. And um and so for me, I think all of those things, my blog, the Twitter, the podcast now, everything else is is just my addiction to the truth is something that I think I hold um above all else, you know, it’s the thing I pursue in every topic, whether it’s myself or others. So, um yeah, I think I I don’t know that I would say I regret it at all. It’s um No, I don’t regret it. Life’s too short not to be honest and open and truthful. Frankly, I’m not I’m not of the opinion that we are up for reincarnation. I think you’re here once. So, what a what a foolish thing it would be to not say what’s on your mind, providing it’s an it’s an additive in terms of value. You know, you don’t want to be a drain. And and I think at the time when I was coming off Twitter, I felt I was becoming a bit more of a drain. You know, my comments were on things like COVID or live. Well, fine, fine to have an opinion on those things, but they’re not, you know, they’re not funny. Uh they’re not that insightful. So, why even speak? you know, you want to you want to be an addition in your time on this planet. Well, this will seem strange coming from somebody like me who’s kind of made a little bit of a a brand about speaking truth and and having no filter. I guess that’s what I’m known for now. So, I I I would tend naturally to agree with you, but in this case, um or maybe because of this, I I would say it has been a deal you shouldn’t have done. I I read this next bit and I I had to read it three or four times, Eddie, because it’s just it’s just devastating. A sense of emotional nakedness was palpable. I knew I was acting up, selfharming in front of folks who had heard such stories on the podcast and I didn’t feel good about it. In fact, I felt quite a sense of embarrassment and shame. At these moments, I question my openness and still do. I know those closest to me would have been more protected if I was more private. You know the answer. You know was this has been a deal you shouldn’t have done this glorification of the truth. You know it’s been a mistake. No. Well, I wouldn’t be on this podcast if that was true cuz you wouldn’t want them to have me on. I would just be another plain vanilla sports person. And so I think that’s the answer. And and I don’t disagree with you and I don’t disagree with myself. The people that are most affected are those closest to me. I have a habit, however, of keeping those a fair distance away from me at the same time. So, um, look, my ability to be open with the public and yet private with those who are closest to me is something that I’ve never fully understood of myself. But, um, it’s a thing. And, uh, and so I, um, yeah, I I think again to go back to the point, look, you know, I’m to the degree to which I’m popular, it’s because of my open and it’s it’s my open nature and my honesty and um, and I don’t do it for that. I don’t do it for popularity or attention. Um but I think you you have this need to to to speak the truth for for no particular objective. Yeah, I would say so. It’s um it’s not really a choice. It is a need. I think it is a it is a need. It’s something that that something that stirred or compelled within you to feel the necessity to go out and and say what you think. And um that was certainly present during co for me on Twitter and it was certainly present during live. and they were really the only two major topics where I ever, you know, really put myself and my thoughts out there. But I felt compelled to do so. And and when that when that’s engendered within you, it’s hard to understand. But I think it happens to all of us. And it could happen on random topics. Um but some things just strike, you know, caught with us all. No, no. Listen, I I agree with all that much more than you realize. Um I I myself felt a lot of that recently certain about certainly about certain um geopolitical and and and and spiritual things. So I I get it. I just know that it it doesn’t help in the grand scheme of things. It it it it helps in some cathartic way, but in you dealing with what’s all around you, I I I don’t think it helps. That’s my own experience. It doesn’t help even in the family. uh you you get more um involved in talking to the the ephemeral world out there as opposed to the people beside you. And then anyway, I I I I’m glad you’re off Twitter. Um I I I I don’t listen to podcast because some podcast you don’t get to. I’ve heard a few times. It’s excellent. Um but uh I think you have been too generous with your personality and I I wish you hadn’t been and and I think I think um we would be having a different podcast now. But anyway, that’s your choice, Eddie. Um you’re you’re someday admired. You know that. Question three, who’s the person you wish you never met? Again, I don’t know that I can really answer that in that. I’ve never been one for um having an idol. So, I’ve never encountered that thing where you meet one of your idols and you’re disappointed by them. And I think that it’s a reflection of me. I’ve just never had a hero or an idol. So, I’ve I’ve never I I would say I’ve never met that person uh yet, Raj, to be honest with you. Um Okay. So let’s let’s flip this a little bit to to to something you mentioned earlier which clearly clearly affected you and I personally think is one of the reasons that you have to quote yourself in some ways falling out of love with golf a little bit. I I think Liv and you use this phrase about Liv a queen eating its own pieces. Uh I I think Liv really got to you. I think the game and the industry of golf disappointed you. I think certain players and certain humans disappointed you and I don’t think you’ve ever recovered. I I think Liv really really affected what you believed your sport was. Is Is that fair? I I don’t think I’m affected by it now. I I do think there was a good year where I spent too much energy, time and energy um thinking about it, talking about it, writing about it, but uh or tweeting about it. But um no, I I I think I’ve become slightly more cynical, less naive over those period that over that period of time. Um I’m certainly was disappointed by some players. Uh because to me they held the cards to a large degree. Um I think what’s been interesting over the last few years is actually maybe they hold the cards less than we thought, but I still nonetheless do think they have they have the value. Um, and so, you know, it’s not about I think what was disappointing, what I found disappointing was that they made they made the easy decision and it’s not about right and wrong. It’s about what’s difficult and what’s easy. And and I think a lot of them took the easy road and that’s fine. Um, but um that’s not how you that’s not how you leave a legacy. That’s not how, you know, to the degree to which we are custodians of anything in our time on this planet, it’s that you you try and leave something in a better place than you found it. And I I would argue that the decisions that were made by a lot of the folks were were never going to do such things to the something like the DP World Tour certainly. So um yeah, that was one of my major gripes and disappointments I had with some of the players, but um I understood them and I still get on with them all all and uh you know, a lot of it is water under the bridge. I would say certainly from an emotional standpoint, we would obviously still disagree on lots of other things. However, you as you said earlier, you know, I I got a little bit close to the live 54 situation and then I wrote that piece on it where, you know, mainly it’s saying um Liv would never have got out of the womb if the existing setup of golf had in any way been fit for purpose and actually serving its members. Um, do you do you do you still feel I’m wrong in that? And that despite your stewards not being up to it, you still have a loyalty to this this this strange thing called tradition of the sport. The the question really is is has what Liv made anything better? You know, what what is better about Liv than the DP World Tour or the PGA Tour? And I would say very few things. um it would be different if indeed they were to come and innovate in a way that was clearly adding or bettering the sport, but I just haven’t seen that occur. You may have done, some may have done, but I personally certainly don’t feel that way. And and so, you know, I I yeah, for that reason would still remain entirely loyal to the foundational and cornerstone values of the DP tour, the PJ tour, the game of golf as it’s historically been played. And I don’t disagree with you when you start to talk about things like product market fit, how for how long these things work in the modern world as TV changes and consumption changes and that’s a slightly different question but um and I agree with a lot of your um positions on that those types of things but fundamentally you know I think it is also within the should be within the mind of any player that and any sports person that you what you what are you trying to uphold here and to me live threw away did away with a lot of those things that I I don’t think bettered the sport ultimately. No, no, I I get that. I I guess maybe I framed it badly. What I’m talking about is loyalty, you know, and I’m asking this because I think you are driven by all these these laudable uh qualities. I I if I had been a player like you and as you know this golf is my father’s sport and I know that he would have wanted me to stay in the tour. I would have looked at the leadership of the DP World Tour and the PGA and said, “Nah, I feel absolutely free to do whatever I want to do because these people do not deserve my loyalty.” That’s the point I’m making, Eddie. And and I’m I’m pretty certain that’s the case. I I didn’t feel that way. Um, you know, there was progress occurring. Prize funds were still increasing. Playing opportunities were going up. um you know it’s not as though uh times were tough for any of us and so uh it’s just a much more you know a financially better opport financial better opportunity came along for many players at points in their career where it was particularly uh inviting and enticing to to not turn down and that’s what we’ve seen happen. So uh yeah I I I don’t disagree with you entirely that certain things could have been done better across time. I think I like what you say about having paranoia as a leader. I think that is essential and and definitely in hindsight Keith Pley or Jay Mon should have had more paranoia present but um you can’t make the argument in my opinion that they were failing because as I say prize funds were increasing in line with and beyond slightly inflation. So good things were occurring. The business was on a steady traction. They were they weren’t failing. The the biggest winner was J J Monahan himself with the way he was getting rewarded for those media deals. But let’s let’s not go let’s not go into that. But I take your point. It’s very nuanced. All I’m saying is I personally with all the kind of like parental e feeling I had to the game of golf I I I I would have done what the live guys did. um mainly because loyalty was gone. Uh I wouldn’t have felt and and I know some things now about how that went down. I don’t I don’t think that the leaders of golf in the two tours covered themselves in glory and I think that’s affected you. I I think that’s one of the reasons you call it a hamster a hamster wheel and everything like that. I don’t think you should be calling your your sport your profession a hamster wheel when you’re still very much a young man. you know, if I was in a position where I felt entitled to offer you advice, which I’m not. We’re on a podcast. Um, I I would say Eddie, um, you’ve got 10 years where you can dominate here. But one one thing where something I did take umbrage with in your piece was where you talked about, um, the tour. Um, the word you used, disowning me, cutting me aside. Um, but that that wasn’t the tour. That’s just competition. And that’s what golf is. And that’s the beauty of the DP World Tour and the PGA Tour compared to Liv, especially compared to Liv. It’s that it’s open, tough competition that’s cutthroat in nature. And that’s nothing to do with the DP World Tour. The leadership didn’t throw me to one side. No loyalties were abandoned. That’s just sport and that’s competition. And and you rise above it or you fall below it. And I fell below it. And I have no qualms about that. And um I think that we fundamentally would disagree with that on that probably. Um and and in terms of maybe what the responsibility therefore is of the DP World Tour. In my opinion, the responsibility isn’t to guarantee you anything. The the game is tough, the sport is tough, it’s what builds you. Um and I’m fine with that. So, uh but I mean I clashed with Lori on that. You know, we we certainly clashed on that topic. Lori was always Lori Caner, sorry. Yeah. Who of course went to live in the early days and is a very close friend. We had some, as you can imagine, some extremely heated debates on it all and we fell out for a while, but um I think we met we’ve met much more in the middle over time on a lot of these issues. Interesting. Yeah, intelligent people do. But my point is I think this has affected you and um I I blame the industry of golf for doing that. like I blame all sports for not finding the middle ground and and the the existing governance, the existing owners and stewards just putting up a brick wall and saying no, you’re we’re not we’re not changing. I think that’s a problem for the whole of the industry. comes to the well this comes to my point that I made about the game theory type dynamics however the prisoners dilemma stuff because you know I I don’t see how it’s workable to come together when there’s three main parties all vying for ultimately what is a in in that sense it’s very zero sum uh you know John Ram will only play golf say 20 times in a year this would be a very different this is why I’ve always disagreed with say Keith Kevin Peterson’s view on this in terms of the IPL because where the IPL was so different to live golf is the IPL could fit in conjunction and in addition to other forms of test cricket one day whatever because of its format but but fundamentally live golf takes one week out of John Ram’s calendar much in the same way as the PJ tour does and if John’s only got 20 weeks to give which we know he has as same with all the top players there are going to be winners and losers as his time is split upon the say the three main parties there the commercial needs and values are not ever going to be met of the PGA tour the DP tour lift golf under that environment So the coming together side of things, I don’t see how it works. Okay, I get that. I think it’s too late. I I I agree it’s too late. What I’m saying is at the time, this is my point, and forgive me because I’ve got direct experience with this in rugby now, which I don’t want to bring into this, but the lessons are all the same. Uh, and there’s another one I’m quite close to with in tennis, with the Saudis who could easily have done in tennis what they’ve done in golf, but they haven’t. They’ve embraced the ATP. they’ve come up with um maybe it’s a stepping stone the the the new master event in in Saudi and everything like that. What I’m saying is that I absolutely certain just like ruby’s doing that golf took a no negotiation stance at all with people who they could have leaned on for new capital and for new ideas or another way to be additive. Now it’s too late. I agree with you. But that’s that’s my view on it is that they made a dreadful mistake as rugby is making a dreadful mistake now. Um and I I’m I understand you more than you know because these things have affected my view on sport and I’m not even a protagonist you know and you are. So I can imagine how you you then say well what’s all this about you know and the love goes and it becomes a bit of a grind and you know you’re thinking you want to write more and play less golf. I get all that Eddie. I get it. I’m just sad because I think you are a you’re really unique talent and I don’t think it’s possible because I think you’re you’re too bright to allow anybody to to dominate your mentality or coach or anything like that. But I think if you could get your head together, you could be a top 10 player for for the next five to six years easily. Easily. You just need to get your head in the right place. And maybe you don’t want to get it there. Maybe you are, you know, I’ve only got X years left on this earth. I’m not coming back, you know. So, I’ve I’ve got other priorities. Golf is the sixth thing I think when I get up in the morning. I get fine. Fine. But you need to allow us and all the people that love you to be very frustrated by that. You need to allow that, Eddie. That’s the thing about um the good wind hunting at the at the start. You owe it you owe it to us more than yourself. Go and win some stuff. Well, I’m not not trying. I can to show you that. All right, let’s go into the next question. Um, actually the next question, the fourth question is, what train, we probably covered a lot of this. What train do you think you’ve missed or were late for in life? Well, specifically to golf, I I think I could say, um, well, uh, I look at the way some people over the last few years have gone and lived in Dubai or or or spent more time in America really to apply themselves specifically to their golf. I think if I think this ties into the next question however as to why I didn’t do this but um the degree from training I missed well I think the next two questions are linked and that you know I didn’t I could have gone to say Dubai I could have um gone and lived in a place like that where I think unquestionably the case would have been that my golf would have improved um I could have spent more time on it would would have spent more time on it and simply would have got better as a consequence of that that being said there were personal drawbacks to doing such a thing and that’s where question five would come in as to say um you know who was the person that you you glad you met when you did or something like this and and that would be Jen because Jen and the dogs are exactly the reasons why I didn’t go and live in Dubai because it’s not what we wanted and so um though I am single-minded and very selfish in many many ways I’m also not in many many ways and I think my decision- making over the years has proven that to myself and to those around me. So, um, you know, I’ve always valued my time with Jen, relationship with Jen, uh, above all else, and and so I think, however, I do think that’s possibly been detrimental, um, to my professional career maybe in recent times. Mhm. Mhm. My my answer to that that I thought you may come up with in this question is, um, goes back to when you were 16 and you decided not to go to America and and and immediately go on the tour. I think you you followed this guy Oliver Fischer who who who you thought was a right guide for somebody of your intellect. I think that this was the the the train that you missed to go to America fully embrace the educational side of a scholarship in golf. Um start your professional career later and maybe burn out later if that’s the phrase you use, not me. H burn out. I I think you got into golf too early, right out of school, when your brain was seeking something else at that age. Um, I would agree and disagree with that. I a I don’t particularly enjoy my time in America now, so I’m almost certain I wouldn’t have enjoyed it at 16, 17, 18. Um, and B, America back then wasn’t what it is now. If I was 16 or 17 now, I would advise anybody to go and spend time in America. The collegiate system is second to none. It’s far superior to anything else you can get. But it wasn’t back when I was that age. And in fact, Tommy Fleetwood never went, Tom Lewis, most guys didn’t go. In fact, so it wasn’t the thin back then that it is now. So, um, I would push back a bit on that. Um, that being said, I I don’t disagree with you that at that point my mind was beginning to, uh, you know, think about things outside of golf, but I I kind of took that on. I started reading books and spent a lot of time on my own listening to podcasts, reading books and exploring thoughts and ideas and and reading some cool stuff. So, um but yeah, I so I agree and disagree slightly as always as seem it’s consistent with you and me to be honest. Um let’s let’s go back to Jen and take question five. What sliding door were you just in time for? I’m going to put Jen into that sliding door. That was that’s the you you met her at 16, right? And and and and you’ve been together nearly 20 years. And of course, you know, to if I’d have gone to America, then Jen would never have been a thing. And and I would I know who I would rather spend time with, and that’s definitely not America. So, um yeah, I uh Jen is the sliding door that I um that I met at the right time. And uh and and I think that’s been an unusual feature of my life career. You know, it’s not it’s not that common that you meet somebody at 16 and you spend well, we’ve been together now for what 18 years. So, um Well, you’re the second guest on the confessional that did that. Dar Towns end was exactly the same. So, in this little sample size, we we’ve got a high percentage of sweethearts from from school. That’s great. That’s great. But I mean, like, I’m just I was just thinking, you know, all these things about golf and the famous phrase, you know, if you really want to know a man uh or a woman, but especially a man, go and play golf with him for 18 holes cuz he can’t hide for 18 holes, right? She’s cadding for you now, Eddie. Um that is that has to be one hell of a strong relationship if you can play golf the way and everything you’ve been going through. You use words like self-sabotage and torment and and all this emotional breakdowns and everything like that and this poor girl is beside you having to find something to say cuz I don’t know what to say when somebody shanks off a tea and and you look away and you stay quiet. How does she deal with that? Because she must be one hell of a woman. I think she finds it difficult. Um she enjoys caddying. I know that uh and she said as much. But um I think she’s found it hard this year. Obviously at times where I’ve been as frustrated as I have been. And I think interestingly this year from my own perspective is my behavior has been probably worst around Jen on the course or even Jamie who I know particularly well who’s caddy for me recently. And when I yet when I’ve been on my own, I haven’t misbehaved. So it tells me that I’m acting up a little bit around those who I’m closest to which again I’m not surprised by cuz I think that’s been a feature of me my whole life as as a child. But uh yeah, Jen, look, she’s incredibly loyal. Um and uh and I think nobody wants me to succeed more than her at this point. So um you know, the hope the day that comes back and I do, then she would be the first person that I would thank and um or at the very least buy a nice, I don’t know, bottle of champagne for me. She’s actually quite close to me now making eggs, so uh she probably can hear what I’m saying, right? Yeah, I can see you nervously glancing to your right for the last three or four minutes. So, so but but but um seriously uh this is such an important point because I think I think the same way as you the person that you’re besides, you know, uh is so important. It it’s the gateway uh to achievement and vice versa. Um does she and and I hope you don’t think this, but you may think, “Oh, I’m being a little bit pushy and aggressive and challenging here.” Does she ever say to you, Eddie, for goodness sake, get rid of this kind of like self introspection? Just bloody hit the ball. You’re the best there is. These people can’t release your boots that you’re playing with today. Just show them. Did she ever say that? I don’t recall her ever saying something quite um like that. She probably thinks it. Um and there are times on the golf course where, you know, that’s you don’t need to say it. It’s fairly obvious. But I do think Jen, you know, she understands she understands the game and um and she sees other players out there even at similar position to me now where we’ve been playing on say the Hotel Planet or the Challenge Tour, guys who have achieved more than me, frankly, um but are still out there. I think she she kind of gets that there are things going on beneath the hood of golfers that again back to the you know some of the comments earlier on in the podcast there just isn’t this one forone linear relationship um it’s a very very muddied sport and uh and then it becomes muddied psychologically which is makes it even more challenging and I think Jen fundamentally obviously knows me as well as anybody and knows who I am how strong minded and strong willed I am um it was one of her vows our weddings why she liked me so much. It was my strong willed nature. But um yeah, it’s I think you’ve got to take the rough with the move. If you’re with somebody like that, then um accepting the other is well of essential importance. I think that’s something that I hope Jen has got better with over time or better at over time with me. I I don’t want to labor this, but I do need to labor this a a little bit because a lot of people on the on the on these podcasts of of mine of mind and grants these days are a little bit about redemption arcs and a little bit about you know having success and then going into these doldrums. I’m thinking particularly about Jim Car. I’m also thinking about John Skipper after what what the scandal he went through and um I can certainly say because I know John Jim K better you know um certain people went to him when he was feeling it was over and to use his phrase grabbed him by the collar and put him up against the wall and told him what he was capable of. If if somebody came to you and basically took that strong strong approach to saying, Eddie, really, come on, you know, I’m I’m I’m going to be very brutal with you. You know, how would you react? Would you just kind of disengage and say, I don’t need this in my life, or or is there somebody that could just get you going really really passionately? Um, I would I I would probably tell them to do one. uh depending on exactly when they came to me, but uh you know it yeah it’d have to be organic within me and uh and it would have to be organic within you. It would have to be unquestionably and that’s that’s always been true of me. You know any um but but that’s again I I would just want to make the point that I think time counts for a lot. You we look at these stories and we we try to pinpoint a moment in time and say well that was the turning point where actually what the turning point was is that the person just kept going and so it was time that took care of things and we create these illusions that people do something or something happens in one’s life and that is the moment and for some that’s true but I do think for more than more than often than others it’s actually just just keep putting yourself in that moment exposing yourself time and time and time again doing that huge resilience and I think and I think the degree to which if I am successful in the future which I hope to be and I think I could easily be that would be it. It’s just that I I just kept doing it. Um and ultimately kind of figured out one or two slightly nuanced things un unusual things even surprising things. and my cousin who’s dead now but was an actor and was in the arches and he always said something to me which always stuck with me is that he said your ability to surprise yourself um or give yourself the opportunity to surprise yourself and I thought that means something quite profound I think and I’ve had moments on the golf course over times where that’s happened and it’s at that moment where true confidence begins to blossom and maybe that’s the thing maybe I’m on a golf course next year and something just happens on one tea box or on a series of holes It could even be Q school where I put myself in there with the shot of surprising myself. I did and that led to some great performance across time and maybe that was Q school for me. We’re all hoping that I would say that it’s not as organic as that and the question that you said that you you you weren’t sure how to answer because none of us really do or maybe we do is what motivates you? You know, for for some people it could be there is no way I’m letting this person be better than me because he hasn’t been blessed with the same things I have. Uh that’s one thing. The other one is the Michael Jordan thing. If you ever diss me, I’m just going to throw it right down your throat. I I don’t see either of those bits of nastiness in you, Eddie. Is it would it be fair to say that you’re too too balanced and too nice to to to have that edge at the elite end? Quite possibly. Yeah. I I think that’s quite that’s quite possibly true. Um I don’t have those things in me. Nothing ever means enough to me to want to go and show them, you know, show them right, put them right. I can It’s kind of water off a duck’s back and it is what it is. So, um yeah, you you could be right there. and and the degree to which I will do it will again be off my own back. It will be because I want to apply myself. And that’s the that’s the question. That’s the question for me moving forward is can I rediscover the passion that I once had? Um how am I how am I going to do so? And and um and I’ve definitely been waiting for it. Waiting isn’t enough and and you’ve got to make it happen. So uh and that’s something that I’ve struggled with postco and I think a lot of people have. I think a lot of people have. I think CO did something very odd to a lot of people’s minds and uh determination, motivation, endeavor, um risk-taking. So, um yeah, I I think I’m overcoming that much more so than the live stuff. I think it’s actually the it’s a long co not in terms of its, you know, physical health um implications, but more than just the psychological impact of such an event. Yeah. The last question is this one. person maybe you’ve answered this. What person do you owe most to in life but you haven’t yet told them enough? Second part is important as well. I think well I think that would be my dad. Um unquestionably you know he’s uh he’s just a great he’s a great dad but he’s a great person. He’s a great bloke really. Everybody loves him. He you talk about somebody that is universally popular. It’s my dad. He um you know he’s been to more funerals in the last few years than I can care to imagine because he just knows so many people or wants to be seen. um part of Mark and his respects for those people. So he’s um he’s a great guy and and he sacrificed an awful lot growing up for me, my brother Joe and my sister Emily. You know, he he worked at Rover for 25 years as a tool maker, grew sick and tired of that and just decided to upsticks and run a football club with a friend and then after a football club ran a uh a golf range and then went and worked at a golf club for for 10 years. So I had 15 20 years of my upbringing which you talk about these things that you can never predict or put in place but I’ll put in place for you that you benefit from. Well for me that was it. You know I got to hit thousands of balls a week simply because my dad run a driving range for what reason? Well, any he could say, but um a lot of these things were just by chance and purely random and uh but he took that on and and I think he’s a I think he’s a bit of a risk taker himself and uh becoming self-employed in this type of thing was was important for him and um you know, I’m just hugely grateful to having the opportunities that he gave me and and um and above it all, he’s just been he’s just he’s just a great dad really. So um yeah, you may not want to ask this and but I think it’s fair to ask it. Does he in any way um ask you some of the things that we’ve discussed on this podcast or is he basically Edd’s his own man, I trust him. He’s got the right value set. Whatever will be will be. Or is he pushy in any way? Has ever been pushy? No, he’s not pushy. Uh I’m I’m almost certain that he would want to ask me these questions and want to have these types of discussions. But um as you may know, I think it’s true. Father and son relationships are they look tough. They’re difficult to to be truly open with each other on and and um one of the more fascinating aspects of human nature I think and um they are absolutely he he finds me I think immensely frustrating of course. Um but you know I I I think maybe or I hope at least what helps him is when he hears others talk of me um in glowingly and I think what happened over the last week was probably very nice for him to see the amount of the outpouring of support um because fundamentally that’s really what should matter most for a parent I would imagine is to see their son or daughter become a person that is liked that is popular that is a force for good and because really what else is there to be? So, um, yeah, although it’s disappointing that I’m not quite achieving on the course what he and I would like, it’s I I still think true. And this is something I’ve tried to do over the years in times where I’ve been most frustrated and found it most difficult on and around the golf course is to go above and beyond at saying hello to the person walking to the driving range, saying hello to the caddy or the player. Um, because if you can be a good if you can be a nice person when things are tough for you, then well, I think you’ve kind of got it sused really. Well, the I I was that I forgot about this, but you bring it back now. One of the people said to me the complete opposite of that about you. You haven’t got the ability to go into [ __ ] mode and you’re too generous. You’re you’re you’re you’re to give too much of yourself and sometimes, especially in golf, you just need to not even know there’s another person on the planet. So that’s really enlightening what you just said there because that backs that up and again humanly uh you’re the winner. You’re absolutely the winner. But all I would say in closing now Eddie having gone through all of these is that I do think you need to find some kind of motivation to make you realize that you are a golfer. That is uh who you are. That’s your profession. And if that isn’t about wanting to win things, you said you don’t set goals. you’ve not got any need to stuff it down somebody’s throat that you’re better than them. The motivation’s got to be this one. The reaction to that video, the people that reached out to you, the amount of joy that you can give people because of your skill. So that should be your motivation. Whenever you feel it’s a grind, just think of the joy that you can give all these people more than the handshake on the way to the driving range. people reacted to that video because of your talent. And that’s that’s what you should take away to the next T-box. I want to do that again for other people. And then maybe that wins you tournaments, maybe it doesn’t. But that’s for me my advice to you as an older man. Make that your motivation. Make people happy. Yeah. Well, that’s I I I will try and take that on and forward. And um I think that’s good advice and I think that’s something I should be trying to do. So I appreciate that. Just just leave it at that. And Eddie, thank you so much for coming on. You could have in many times on this told me to take one to use your phrase, but you didn’t. Um, and I’m really really grateful. Thank you very much, sir. Cheers, Roger.
