Kevin Kisner Didn’t Hold Back — The Truth About Golf, TV, and Tiger Woods

Kevin Kisner joins Trey Wingo for his most unfiltered interview yet — a deep dive into the future of golf, Tiger Woods’ legacy, the LIV–PGA divide, the reality of golf broadcasting, and the truth about today’s Tour players from someone who’s lived it.

Kisner breaks down how NBC approached him out of nowhere to jump into the broadcast booth, why he literally laughed at the idea, what it felt like stepping into a chaotic production truck for the first time, and how he learned the rhythm and timing of live television. He explains the difference between great analysts and bad TV, how Dan Hicks guides the booth, and why “knowing when not to talk” is the hardest—and most important—skill on air.

From there, the conversation goes deep into the Tour: the mental grind, losing your card, rebuilding confidence, competing at the highest levels, and how golf humbles even the best players. Kisner details what it was really like facing Tiger Woods during Peak Tiger, why Tiger’s dominance changed the sport forever, and how modern players still compare themselves to that standard.

Kiz and Trey also get into the PGA Tour vs. LIV Golf debate:
• Why some players thrived after leaving and others have struggled
• Whether the LIV schedule hurts major championship performance
• What returning to the PGA Tour would actually look like
• How the Tour’s leadership change could reshape the entire ecosystem

They discuss the future of TGL, how younger players should be developed, the Champions Tour age debate, and why the Tour’s schedule and audience strategy is going to look completely different over the next few years.

Kisner goes beyond the headlines—sharing stories about Tiger texting him about college football, the real conversations players have about pressure, the shots that haunt professionals, and the mental tricks golfers use to survive at the highest level.

If you love golf, Tiger stories, behind-the-scenes TV insight, Tour politics, or the future of the sport, this is a must-watch.
Kevin Kisner doesn’t hold back — and this conversation pulls back the curtain on golf like never before.

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I talked to Tiger a good bit and and uh he’s starting to feel a little better even if he had to come back and play a few Champions Tours events just to get his feet wet riding a cart. Uh that would be cool, right? I think it’d be a huge boost for that tour. We all want to see him play and we’ll all welcome him with open arms, but we want him to be healthy and and feeling good when he does it. Do you tell Bryson to Shambo to go to tour school and try to earn his way back or I’m not smart enough to figure it out. when you’re playing against 54 guys instead of 150 and you’re playing on golf courses that are not nearly the quality that we play week in and week out on the PGA Tour and then you show up to a Beth Page Black, it’s probably pretty eye opening. If you want to be playing on the top level of golf in the world, you’re going to play on the PGA Tour. [Music] Hey everybody, what’s up? Trey Wingle here. Welcome in to another episode of Straight Facts Homie, the podcast, video cast, the content, however you want to call it that doesn’t rely on opinions or anger or rage or shouting. We do data. We do information and we do deep conversations with the people that matter and the things that you care about. And by the way, uh if you’re watching and listening, we appreciate that. Make sure you click that like and subscribe button wherever you’re getting it, especially on YouTube. It really helps our audience grow. Um, obviously we do a lot of golf here and golf is in a really interesting time right now because the PGA Tour had an unbelievable season and now they have a new man in charge in Brian Rolap. And what’s going to happen going forward? Well, this week’s guest on Straight Facts Homie is a guy who considers himself much more of a player still on the PGA tour than a broadcaster, even though he’s one of the lead analysts for NBC and has done a great job. I’m talking about, of course, Kevin Kizner. kids. You know him, you love him. University of Georgia alum. Helped them win a national championship in golf while he was on the team. And of course has four wins on tour and does a great job in the booth because he’s never rehearsed or tried to be anything but himself. So what to think of Kevin Kner’s career and where golf is going. That’s the conversation we had with Kevin Kner. Sit back and enjoy. So Kiss, right? Right now when people say, “What is Kevin Ker?” Do you say I’m a golfer? Do you say I’m a a broadcaster? What do you say? My, uh, most recent answer has been TBD. Uh, I don’t know. I play a little bit. I announce a little bit, play TGL, and, uh, got a few other things in the works that I think are exciting that hopefully come come in by the end of the year. So, hats in a lot of different areas. Um, I just, you know, I’m not too excited about traveling 35 weeks a year again anymore with 11, eight, and four year olds. So, uh, I enjoy the TV side. I still enjoy playing. the level of golf so high out there anymore, but um I just like to be relevant in the game and continue to to try to elevate the game in any way I can. When when they came to you and they meaning NBC and said, “Hey, we we we’re thinking about we’d like to you to step in and do a lot of these big events.” What was your first reaction? I laughed in Tommy Royy’s face. I was I was actually playing at the RSM Classic, which is the last tournament of the year two years ago. And I got done in scoring and I walked out and Tommy was standing there. And I was like, “What are you doing here?” And he’s like, “I came to talk to you.” And I said, “Oh, boy. What’s that about?” I had no idea. And he’s like, “I want you to come help us out and be our lead analyst at NBC for a couple weeks. Try out.” And I literally laughed in his face. And And then my next question was, “How long is the delay?” Yeah. Yeah. The kill switch. Yeah. Um, so what how did he sell it to you? Well, he just said that, you know, that things didn’t work out with Azinger at the end of the year. they were kind of in a in a tough spot because they had a tournament in four weeks in Maui. Um, and they didn’t know what direction they wanted to go to make a big hire. So, they were going to try to use guys through 24 to see which direction they wanted to go. And he said, “Since you’re already going to Hawaii to play the Sony Open, would you just be willing to fly over there a few days earlier on us and and try it out?” And so I said, I’ll never forget. I said, “Well, Tommy, it’s Christmas season. I’ve got no way I’ve never been to media school. I went to business school. I said, “I can’t fly to New York and do any media training or anything like that before Maui.” He said, “Oh, no. Just a 20-minute phone call with me and you’ll be good.” And I laughed at that again. And sure enough, that’s what we did. And and there I was putting a headset on on Friday going, “I have no idea what I’m doing.” Was that a good thing or a bad thing, do you think? Well, I think it was great on my reaction to things, right? I didn’t have any uh preconceived idea of what I should scar tissue. Right. Now, I will tell you the scar tissue came when he asked me to come in the truck for an hour before I went on air. And I sat in there. I made it about 17 minutes. And I walked out and called my wife and said, “If the booth is anything like the truck, there’s no way I can do this.” Yeah, that’s the the truck can be a little intimidating. Like people that don’t people that aren’t on the inside of the business don’t understand truck life. You know, you you see those uh those shots on the Thanksgiving Day games and the Christmas Day games where the you know, the crew was waving. For those people that don’t understand how to put on a live TV event sports-wise, like those guys, they’re hardcore in that truck. Hardcore. And how many moving parts there are to produce the shots you want to see and how to know where to go and try to play as many live shots as possible and people are screaming, “We got to go away. Got to get a commercial in.” Uh, I’m just glad I don’t hear all of that while I’m in the booth. Yeah. So, so how did you So, the shock and awe of the of the truck and then you got into the booth and what was that like right away? It was like going into a Zen yoga studio. Like I opened the door and all I could hear was Dan Hick’s sweet voice and I was like, “Oh yeah, this is way cooler. I can do this.” I I got to say I did not think Zen Yoga Studio would be something I’d be pulling out of Kevin Kzner for me today. I did not I did not see that coming. I did not see that coming. L Lane Lang Keifin and I are into hot yoga. You know, that’s what we do. Well, Lane Lane Keifin’s in a hot something. We can get into that for sure a little bit later because everyone knows what a big college football fan you are. So, how have you taken to it? Like after that first experience, did you think, okay, because I think I was talking to you out there in Maui because I was You were out there. I ran into you on the course and I was like, dude, give me some advice. I need something to go in here. I don’t know what I’m doing. Um, ju just be honest, right? Yeah. I mean, I I the good thing is I know most of the guys. I know all the golf courses. So, all that golf stuff comes easy. Now, the production side, I still am learning like when to lay out, when to add a comment, not talking over people, you know, the the uh cadence of the entire thing because we have four guys trying to talk. Um, understanding that I still think I’m still trying to figure out, but as far as uh the production and and being up there and feeling comfortable, I’m in a pretty good spot. Now, one of the hardest ones I did this year was the British Open when we did the the tournament finished and we stayed on air for maybe 20 or 30 minutes doing the trophy presentation without a commercial and just how many times can you talk about how good Scotty Sheffller is without saying the same thing over and over again. So, I basically just put my head on Dan Hicks’s shoulder and said, “You got it, bud. Hang in there. Call me if you need me. I’m right here. I I’ll help out if I can, but this is your time.” But but it is interesting, right? because uh when when Fox had the US Open and their first year was at was at Chambers Bay and you know it was it was when Dustin was in his cannot get across the finish line phase at Major and they had Norman in the booth and it you know that Chambers Bay that year finished with it was a par five I think on the 18th hole. Yep. Well, we changed it. Remember one day we played as a par4, one day we played as a par five. Yeah. and and he three puttered on the 18th and it was Joe and Greg Norman was in the booth and I remember listening to Joe saying to Greg, “What do you think about what happened?” And Greg, I’ll never forget this. Greg said, “Uh, I’m speechless. I have no words.” I’m like, “Bro, this is why they pay you. They need your words now. This is not a time to be speechless.” I mean, this this is literally the moment that they’re paying you for. Especially, I mean, if we’re being honest, this is a guy in Dustin who hadn’t come across the finish line, has choked away a few majors. Greg, you might be familiar with this. I I need you to bring something to the table here. Yeah. Joe should have started with from your past experience, Greg. Exactly. Now, exactly. He might have gotten the same answer, but it would have been a great question. Exactly. So, so how do you translate into like you said into those moments when it’s it’s you know you it’s it’s the thing right it’s happening it’s down the stretch it’s the big it’s the big shot the big drive the the putt to win it all you know how do you b like for example JJ at the freaking you know US Open this year at Oakmont how do you balance what you’re doing there the good thing about golf two things that from a broadcast is we’re the only sport that come on air where the the entire story could have already changed before we come on air right some guy could already have gone out and shot 62 wouldn’t be leading or the leader could have bugged the first few holes before we come on air. And then when you get to those pivotal moments, you you know, Dan’s so good. He’s, you know, without him, I’d be lost for sure. But, you know, I I got to play that right the whole time. Like Dan’s got to do the big moment and then I’ve got to, you know, piggyback off of him as as far as I can tell. And and that’s what I tried to do. Uh, one of the great one of the great shots I saw on that, you know, main camera that’s running the whole time is when JJ’s putt was rolling and I knew Dan was like waiting to see if it cuz we’re all thinking he’s going to three putt from 80 ft, have a playoff. I mean, I I told JJ that and I’d seen that putt so many times and when it crested the hill with like 10 feet to go, I just stuck my thumb up in Dan’s face like, “It’s good. Get ready. You better get ready.” And then it jams the hole and he goes, “How about one?” And I was like, “I’m done here. I don’t have to say anything else for a minute. So, uh, I think just knowing, you know, I think Dan’s lead into that, you know, I’m never going to jump in front of him and and try to take away the moment when it’s that big, but I’m there to to support and add the fancy golf stuff to it. It’s interesting what you just said because I think that’s the hardest thing that a lot of uh people, whether they’re analysts or or hosts like myself or Dan, know when to shut up. I mean, like that that’s a that’s a big thing. And you know, I I some of the best moments for me watching sports are when something incredible happens and nobody says anything for 90 seconds because you just see the moment as it unfolds and you hear the people going crazy. Yeah. Talking to Dan after I got the job, uh, you know, they had three or four guys do it and he said that, you know, I was like, why did they pick me? And he said, well, you had an uncanny ability to know when to lay out. Yeah. That others did not. And he said, you know, you never tried to force something that wasn’t needed in a in a big moment and you never tried to overt talk and and you got to the point quickly and you got out and that’s all you got to do in TV. Yeah. Did you ever imagine that this would be sort of the way this thing unfolded for you? Heck no, dude. Every other word I say at a golf course is a cuss word. I never dreamed that TV would be a part of it. Uh and what’s funny is guys ask me all the time like how how many times have you had to catch yourself from saying a cuss word? And it’s weird. As soon as those headset goes on and the music starts and it goes, you go into that interview mode almost like my whole career where I was getting interviewed and it just never really crosses my mind. I just talk like I’m talking to you in an interview after I won or anybody else and uh that’s just kind of how I speak now. I love to throw jabs at players and and other commentators and stuff throughout, but um if they ever let me go full full hardcore on Peacock or something and that could be really pay-per-view worthy. Full kids on on Peacock. Well, maybe maybe we’ll do that as one of the alternate channels uh for the US Open and the Open Championship that I’ve done the last couple years. Maybe we’ll put that as a sidebar. The Manning Cast. Exactly. Right. Um Okay. So, so that’s the broadcast side of it going forward. Um but as a player, like your your your road was not always the smoothest, right? You you had to couple lost that tour card a couple of times. Where do you find the belief when you know you obviously you guys won a national championship at Georgia uh with with a team that was stacked and and you know then you then you go on to the professional ranks and realize holy [ __ ] this is way more difficult uh oh yeah what was that process like for you? Well, I’ve never, you know, I I always tell people going back to my childhood. I had great parents that, you know, instill great work ethic in me and and nothing was easy. So, that’s what I tried to always lean on as just kind of my upbringing. But, you know, there were many times, you know, missing that second stage of tour school. I remember by one shot getting to finals to finally have some status right out of college and thinking, I don’t know how I can do this again without getting a tour card and and going around playing these mini tours and chasing Monday qualifiers. And then, you know, my progression was always kind of steadily up though. you know, right out of college, I didn’t I won a couple times on the mini tours. Then I got on to the Nationwide Tour, which was back then, and made some money and kind of got some status. Then I won a Nationwide Tour event. Then I got on tour and got my teeth kicked in and went back to the Nationwide Tour, won again. So I’m like, well, I’m obviously good enough. I just need the experience. And, you know, 2014 at the end when I kept my card, played great, and then 15 kind of came out and I think I got all the way to 12th 12th in the world that year was when I really knew I belonged. And and that’s when you’re the wives always talk about it, my wife and other wives, they’re like, you know, it’s never enough when you’re a tour player’s wife, like, hey, we just want to get on tour. And then it’s like, well, all we want to do is win. And then we finally win. It’s like, well, now I want to play in the majors. Well, now I want to win a major. Well, now I want to be on the RDER Cup team. And so, no matter what you do in golf, you’re always trying to get better and be on the next level. And um I think that’s what continues to drive you. Yeah. You know, I I but I think that translate to almost anything if you’re competitive, right? Like for me, when I started my TV career, well, I just, you know, I want to get to a I want to get to a decentsized market. Okay, now that I did that, I want to get to uh I want to get to uh you know, top 20 market and then I want to now I want to get to ESPN. Then I want to get to what I want to do on ESPN, you know. So, while while that is that is absolutely true in golf, I think that’s just anybody that’s successful always doesn’t want to enjoy their success because they want the next level of success. And it’s this weird conundrum. Yeah. And you never really enjoy the success that you’re having in the present, right? Because you’re so competitive. And um I, you know, if I look back on my career, I really wish I would have relished how well I did in certain situations longer instead of, you know, winning a golf tournament and telling my team how we got to get better the next day and and let’s start practicing. That’s that’s just how we’re all wired. If we’re super competitive and we want to be at the highest level, but at some point, you know, you want to look back and like, you know, I was pretty good. I I I did some really great things and accomplished a lot of things that I wanted to accomplish in my career. So, um it’s it’s a it’s an interesting dynamic. Like you said, without that dynamic, you don’t get to where you are, right? You wouldn’t correct. You wouldn’t have been hosting at ESPN and and doing all the things you’ve done and I wouldn’t have, you know, be on all these cup teams and and uh have the seat that I have now. Yeah. And and but it’s careful like because it can mess with you. Like Ian Baker Finch, who just walked away from the booth after a great run, you know, had the great story. He said when he won the 91 open at Burkdale, he said, “Okay, I need to start winning majors now. This is what I need to do.” And it totally effed his swing. Like he admits it. You know, he he’s he’s the only guy I’ve ever seen knock it out of bounds off of the first at at the old course. You know, he hooked it so far left it hit the it hit the freaking road. And so, I mean, it’s it’s this balance you have to go through because otherwise it’ll drive you crazy. I I tell my caddyy a funny story about St. Andrews every year. when we got to 18, you know, it’s travel par4. It’s the same width as the t-shot on one. Yeah. And I always told him, I said, “Man, I hate this T-OT.” And he’s like, “Why?” And I said, “The only thing you can do is screw up. Like, you can hit it anywhere on the planet, but god forbid I hit it out of bounds, this one hole. I’ll be the laughing stock of this entire, you know, industry for this. I got 400 yards to hit it in.” So, uh, you know, any anywhere else you can get away with a, you know, oh, he could have hit it out of bounds there. You can’t hit it out of bounds there, but if you did, you’d be the laughingtock of it. Well, Rick Riley when he was working for Sports Illustrated wrote about that Finchy thing and and the first line of the article, I’ll never forget it. He said, “Are you sure you want to read this?” Because if you if it if you play golf, if it happened to Ian Baker Finch, you can sure as hell believe it could happen to you. You know, that and that’s sort of the mindset like like I’m, you know, I’m I’m a fair golfer. like my number is like a seven and a half and I’ll go around where I feel like I can’t miss and then suddenly I couldn’t hit water if I fell out of a boat. And that’s that’s sort of the the nature of the game, you know, very much so. The the uh I can tell people all the time I can tell when I have it and when I don’t have it when I first grab the club. Yeah. It’s it’s a fascinating thing. It’s like, oh, I’m gonna probably hit it really good today. Just the way it feels. Yeah. You know how it is. And then you get out there some days you’re like, I don’t know how I’ll ever find it today. Yeah. Yeah. And we just got to manage those expectations throughout the round to get it the best score possible. And all of us are crazy about the game, right? I I’ll never I’ve seen you a couple of times wearing those spiked uh shoes like on the putty on the putting green for people that haven’t seen it. What? They’re like what? 6 inch long spiked shoes. What What were you doing there? What’s the What’s the purpose of that? So they’re they’re built for people that don’t step up when they walk for arches. So they’re offbalance. And so if you put them right on the balls of your feet and you get balanced to where you’re not rocking back and forth, then you’re the most stable position you could be to putt in, which as you know, don’t move when you putt. It’s what everybody tells you. So if I get in the most stable position I could be, and I know I’m in the same setup every day, you know, your body changes. Your back hurts this day, your leg hurts that day. Don’t feel good here. So that was kind of my warm-up every day is like I’m going to start at zero every day knowing that I’m in the same place I was yesterday. But, you know, it’s funny that that’s sort of like uh it looked like something out of 10 cup, you know, when everybody doing like how how did you get to the point in your mind where you said I got to try this? Well, I started doing it at home and really putted well when nobody was looking, right? And then suddenly I took it like a smaller event and people were asking me and then you keep making putts, man. You’ll stand on your head, put all your change in your left pocket, do it one-handed like Adam Shank did a few weeks ago. It doesn’t really matter. Um, we’re all crazy like you said. So once I saw the results, I was like, I don’t care who who sees what I’m doing. But, um, it’s funny. Tons of tour players call me all the time still asking me, “Where do you get those things? I want to try them.” But they must all try them at home because I don’t see any tour players doing it at events. You know, the way I look at it, if it works, I do not care. For example, I have a nine I have a 9inewood in my bag, okay? And people give me [ __ ] all the time. Then I hit it and I’m like, I don’t care what the hell you say. I’m not hitting my five iron 210 yards and landing it soft. So laugh all you want, but this this club’s staying in my bag. Yeah. I’m using whatever clubs I can to whip your ass. Exactly. Or I’m just I’m using whatever clubs I can to not look like an ass. I have a I have a lower expectation than you when it when it comes to this. I always say there’s there’s two kinds of golfers in the world. Those that pay for the privilege and those who are paid for the privilege. And you better know which side of the ledger you’re on there. Yeah, you’re right. Um you’re totally right. Are you doing any golf this year? Yeah, I think so. I think I’ll be doing some stuff with NBC again. Uh I I really love I love that stuff and it it keeps like for me after all the years of all the things that I’ve done and the studio work, the live events are different, you know? It’s just it’s a different dynamic when you’re there when it’s happening and and for you that’s got to be the the funnest or the most fun thing about it because you get to have that sort of feel in the really special events. Yeah. And I I told him from the get-go if they ever asked me to do it from a studio, I don’t think I could do it. I just you got to be in the atmosphere. I got to go out on the range and see the guys before they play. I got to get the energy from the crowd. What’s going on? Uh you know, being right there behind a 18. When we go to commercial, I’ll just open the back door and walk out there and see how rowdy it’s getting. Like at at uh US Open, you know, we’re right there halfway down the fairway and you could open the back door of the booth and see how big the crowd were was in that rain and just terrible weather and how many people were just invested in watching the final of that US Open. It gives you the energy to go back and as you you know from producers that’s all they ever say is keep your energy up when you’re talking. Yeah. So, uh that that’s kind of where I get my energy boost is from being a part of it. Yeah. And people don’t understand that part of it. Like for me when I was doing the US Open and the Open Championship at ESPN for all those years, the most fun I had every day was walking the course before the play started. just talking to players, talking to stuff about the the lay of the land, what they think about this hole, that hole, and that’s the kind of stuff that is the most fun to translate to the broadcast cuz you you you like you said, you feed off their energy. There’s nothing like being at a live event. Nothing like it. And and you know, I use all that for resources for my comments the whole time is Yeah. You know, JJ Spine told me he doesn’t like the 13th T-shot and they’re working to maybe try to hit threewood. People want to know that that are watching at home. when we get to 13T, that’s a great nugget to to throw to people and then he, you know, hits in the left rough and you’re like, well, yeah, of course, because he hates the T-shot. All those things, I’m always trying to find those little nuggets to use on air to to give to the fans at home. And that’s another part of this that I think is fascinating. Like, if if you if you’re a professional golfer, you know, you’re you’re tour, you got your card. what people don’t understand sometimes how some holes just mentally drive you crazy and it it could be the stupidest thing like why doesn’t he like that T- shot on 13 you know it doesn’t have to be I mean there the that’s sort of the mental part of the game that I think people don’t quite understand every time you step up over that ball you’re thinking about something you probably shouldn’t be thinking about if it’s a hole you don’t like you know and then you’re screwed before you even swing oh yeah there’s plenty of goals that I walked on in my career before I even pulled a club out of The bad guy would say, “I’m probably never going to hit this fairway. Just don’t like the way it looks. Don’t like the way it feels. Can’t see what I like to see.” And then you can walk on some holes and say, “It doesn’t matter what’s going on. I’ll never miss this fairway.” It’s just it’s crazy. And I I also liken that to, you know, have you ever made a putt that you knew you were going to miss before you putted it? You know, that little guy in the back of your head’s like, “I don’t feel good. I think I’m too low.” It never goes in. No. But if you’re standing over a 30footer and you’re like, “Man, I see it. It’s I I think this was going in.” It goes in so many times and it’s a crazy thing that you can’t just channel all the time, but if you could, it’d be amazing for your golf game. Well, if we could do that, we we would all have a Tiger Golf league named after us. Correct. Um, speaking of that, Tiger’s, you know, trying to make his way back. He he talked about it a little bit recently. What are your thoughts on where we might see or when we might see Tiger again? Well, we’re hoping that he’ll come back and play the last few TGL matches with us as kind of a warm-up, you know, later this spring, early uh yeah, March or so. Um, just depends on how his rehab goes. I talked to Tiger a good bit and and uh he’s starting to feel a little better. You see him moving around in Albany this week. Um, I’m actually headed down there to to call the golf this weekend. So, you going to spend some time with him, see what’s going on. Um, and, you know, hopefully he’s just painfree. That’s that’s the biggest key. And even if he had to come back and play a few champions tours events just to get his feet wet riding a cart, uh that would be cool, right? I think it’d be a huge boost for that tour and then just kind of see how it goes. A, as you know, we all want to see him play and we’ll all welcome him with open arms, but we want him to be healthy and and feeling good when he does it. And you’re sort of in an interesting position because, you know, you you were in college going through it when Tiger was Tiger, right? Like I try and I try and explain to people who are new newer to the game or didn’t see Tiger in his prime like you don’t understand. Like you you missed the greatest show on turf. Like the the greatest thing I’ve ever seen. Like to me Tiger’s 2000 season will go down as the greatest season by any athlete in any sport. So for you growing up with it and then getting on tour and competing against him and then then sort of being experiencing the comeback as well, you know, in 2018 when he almost won the British, almost won uh almost won the uh uh the PGA and then finally broke through at the at the tour championship and then won the Masters the next year. What What would you say to people who didn’t experience Peak Tiger the way you experienced Peak Tiger? Well, I remember watching in my college apartment every Sunday afternoon. It was just a common theme that he was going to win. It was like, well, how how many is he going to win by a day? You know, is he going to win by set? And you, you know, he always hits some great shot. It was never like he just played 68, you know, he hit something out of the rough you were not supposed to hit that goes on the green or makes some bomb right when you need to make it. It was just amazing how many huge moments that he hit critical shots and it always worked out. And um I don’t know what he had up his sleeve, golden horseshoe or whatever, but boy, he could really buckle down and do it do it when he had to. And and then to come out there and be a part of his life, you know, late early in my career, later in his career, it was like a like a god walking around, you know, everybody Yeah. you you could kind of feel a buzz when he came by or something. You you know, it was like a different aura to him. and and then when we got to be buddies and and uh we’re on cup teams together and whatnot, you know, it was like, oh, he’s just a regular old dude like the rest of us. He’s just really good at golf. And he loves that. I love to bust his balls and and give him grief and and we hang out and talk trash all the time. And in fact, I was at the Georgia Old Miss game just a few weeks ago and looked down at my phone. My daughter half my phone is on the table and she’s like, “Um, dad, Mr. Tiger’s texting you.” And I look down, he’s talking trash about Georgia football to me. And so, um, we have a great relationship with that. and and I don’t you know who knows what his life is like how weird it was to be the greatest of all time at such an early age and and how people treated you. So we’ve always had a great relationship and I look forward to hanging out with him in Florida this this uh winter. Yeah. I mean there’s that popular meme on Instagram, men only want one thing and it’s discussing. Yeah, we want to watch Tiger win another major. I mean like that’s Yeah, we all do. That’s that’s what it is. We’ll see if that’s ever possible. Maybe if he just gets to 83 is notice it. might be a a a really cool thing for him to do and just to have that uh tour win total by himself at the top of the Yeah. And it’d be cool just to see him in the hunt again, right? He was so good in the hunt like and being that far removed from being in the hunt. Does it just click back on? That would be something I would love to see. Um cuz it’s hard, you know, when you I tell people all the time, the more you win, the more you win. And so with him being out of it, um, does that instinctual just I’m going to kill you come back really easy to him or it’s going to be fun to watch. Yeah, hopefully. But like you said, first of all, get healthy and then we’ll take it from there. Um, all right. Speaking of health, the tour is in a pretty healthy spot right now and obviously it’s been a pretty dramatic uh last couple of years uh with, you know, a lot of the top guys leaving to go to live or a few of the top guys leaving to go to live and and that thing sort of has balanced out. I feel like the power balance has shifted back towards the PGA tour with with Scotty Sheffler and Rory’s doing and you know things like Tommy Fleetwood finally breaking through. Where are you on the health of the PGA Tour right now? I think it’s a it’s a great spot. I think the uh threat of, you know, them taking top players and us losing our product is is pretty much gone. I think they’ll always poach a few, but you know, if you want to be playing on the top level of golf in the world, you’re going to play on the PGA Tour. And that hasn’t changed. And I think guys understand that. Now, if you just want to play for money and and other accolades, then maybe maybe you want to play somewhere else. But I think Brian, I’ve talked to Brian Rollout, the new CEO, a bunch, and I I think he’s a great guy, and he really has some strategic ideas on how to elevate our game, elevate the game to the fans, and uh really take this this whole organization to the next step. So, he’s got a lot of great guys working for him and with them and and uh I feel good about it. you know, the smaller you make it, you know, argue one way or the other, the more elite it is, right? So, yeah, we’re making the tour smaller, but we’re going to have better players. And I was just reading an article this morning that, you know, Billy Horsel said maybe you have to start shooting 66 instead of 69. And that’s only good for everyone. And that’s going to step up the level of the game. That’s going to engage the fans more. That’s going to engage the sponsors more. And um I think they got a huge strategic decision on what the schedule starts to shake out. I’m not in love with the designated or whatever they’re called events, signature events. I just don’t, you don’t really need to be, you know, having two different levels of the tour. Let’s just have 25 events. They all matter the same and all the sponsors matter the same and let’s get the best players playing together as much as possible. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve known Brian a long time obviously from his association with the NFL and and he’s not afraid of change, you know, and I think that’s the one thing I golf is is very much a game based in tradition and legacy and that’s the way it’s always been done and I and I think when he said, you know, that line, you know, we will honor the traditions but we won’t be bound by them. I think that shook some people in the industry. Right. Oh, I agree with that totally. Um but just because it’s all the way you’ve always done it doesn’t mean it’s right. Right. Correct. If you can improve upon it, then it’s a it’s a positive net positive for you. And if you can take traditions and grow and and continue to grow the brand and make it better product for everyone, then nobody will ever look back at it as a negative. Yeah. And you know, one of the things that we talked about, not only, you know, shortening, but maybe even shortening the season. One of the things you I just just listen to an interview Brian did last week talking about maybe waiting and holding off to the start of the season till after the Super Bowl. What are your thoughts on that? Well, I think from a weather standpoint, why do we go to California in January when it’s fantastic there in March, correct? And Florida is amazing in February, which we could go there. Um, so I think from a weather aronomy standpoint, it could really work out. Um, obviously, we know we can’t compete with the Giant of the NFL and even college football playoffs, if they keep expanding that, that’s only going to continue to go longer and longer, too, right? So, I don’t have a problem with it. Now, you’re going to have to lose some title sponsors when you get less events. And how many people are you going to frustrate that don’t want to be strategic partners with you? I’m not smart enough to do that, but that’s why Brian’s got the job. And and uh you know, I’m going to trust that he’s going to make the best decisions for the players and and our equity stakes in the PGA Tour and we all want them to succeed because then we all make more money. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I and I’ve been a big proponent of this, I’d love to get your thoughts on it. I hate it. I mean, when I tell you I hate it, I [ __ ] hate it that the last major of the year ends in the middle of July. Like, I to me the PGA needs to be in August and it needs to be uh the final major of the year for a couple of reasons. I’ll give you my thoughts and I’d love to get your your take on it. Um, look, there are only four majors. Maybe maybe one day the players will be granted a fifth major. I mean, the LPGA has five. Um, but to me the Masters is obviously the Masters. The US Open is the toughest test in golf and the Open Championship is basically the history of the game. And then there’s the PGA Championship. I think the PGA gets more credence and it gets a little more shot in the arm if it’s your last chance to grab a major. And that’s one of the reasons I like it in August. And I just don’t want the golf season ending in July, the majors ending in July. I mean, this past year we had Scotty doing all these Tiger Woods type things and all these comparisons. That’s what my talk’s about. It’s like, okay, we’ll see you in April. Like, no, I want more of this now. I want more of this. So, I’m really looking to see if we can get that PGA back into being the in the month of August and the final major of the year. All right, my two points. I love your first point that it really helps uh blow up the PGA championship, right? It really gives them a shot in the arm because there’s no realms about it. It is probably the least looked at, coveted major, even though we all love it and want to play in it. Yeah. The problem with going to August is you just lose so many places to host it with the weather. You know, basically the entire Southeast is gone because nobody wants to come to watch a golf tournament where it’s 120 degrees in Charlotte August 15th or Atlanta or wherever. Like when we played in St. Louis that year, it was so hot, man. People were falling out left and right. So, from a weather standpoint, I think you get more venues for the PGA Championship early in the year. Not that it helps, but I think that’s some of the some of the strategic part of it. And I also think from the PGA Tours thinking is they’re really trying to boost the FedEx Cup playoffs, right? So, if you keep putting these majors right up close to the playoffs, then people think that like you do, think the the golf season’s over, kind of quit watching, and then we have this huge three events for tons of money that people aren’t paying enough attention to. So, I think they were trying to pull the majors away from their their ultimate ending of the of the seasons. Yeah, I you know I I I get it. Believe me, I get it. And I know there’s a lot of money invested in in the playoffs and and how we fix that. But um see, I mean, I remember when Tiger won, you know, the 2007 PGA at Southern Hills. I mean, yeah, it was [ __ ] hot. I get it. It’s doable. The the other thing for me though is like I like when we took the in May you you take um you you take the PGA to Beth Page Black or you take it to Oakill in Rochester you literally could have snow that time of year then you’re freezing. So to me I’d be like okay you know we so many of these things are in the south anyway. August would be a great time to be in freaking Michigan, you know, or somewhere where where you you can’t go before June 15th and maybe we see some different courses out there or California. California’s great in in August. Um, I was just saying from Yeah, I think you limit yourself on the venues in August, but it would be a great way to showcase new venues. Uh, which I think the PGA branches out more than anyone on venues, so it would be a good way to showcase that. Um, I think, you know, if they actually go through with all the rumors of 2025 tour events, the schedule is going to be so condensed and they’re going to have to really figure out that major situation anyway because, excuse me, they don’t want to play so many big events, so many backtoback, right? So, if you got 25 events, you want to play a major like every six, not every three, right? So, it’s going to be interesting to how they pile that all together. You know, one of the things that that that sort of been bandied about, I’m not sure how serious it was, maybe even taking the PGA and making it international, like taking it and playing it somewhere else. As a guy who wore a 1776 hat once playing the open championship, how would you feel about the PGA uh championship being held outside the US of A? Well, I think it needs to stay in the US. Um, I just think that that’s our organization and it’s our professional golf association of of the United States and and it should stay here. I know there’s PG of America or PGA members all over the world, but um it just doesn’t feel right to me when I’ve never thought of it till you asked me, but it just in my opinion needs to stay in the US. Yeah. All right. So, so if Brian’s going to make sweeping changes, what would you really like to see change? If there’s one thing all the stuff we’re talking about and all the things that we can do and you know we’re trying to figure this out as we get through to start the 2027 season is when these changes will probably be made. What’s the one thing you would really like to see happen? Well, I’ve talked to him on the phone about it. I think between we really have to find the right mix of PGA Tour U PGA Tour players and Champions Tour and make that all congruent and work for everyone. Right? if you’re taking away players jobs over the course of time, do you lower the the Champions Tour age? Do you give more players PGA Tour U because they’re obviously the the uh future of the tour and we need to build our superstars from within. So, it’s a it’s a in a hard mix. Um, and I think that’s going to be the number one key to how he does this. Does he lower the age of the champions tour? Does he add more younger guys and give them sooner access to the PGA tour so that we’re learning and and building this? And then, you know, not only with the younger guys, if they don’t make it, which is very difficult to come out there and get your teeth kicked in, and now you’re like, “Well, now I don’t have anywhere to play, how do you give them access down to the corn ferry tour quickly so that they can gain the reps and the experience to jump right back up and and become a superstar?” So, between all that, do do we really need the guys that have played the Champions Tour, you know, that are 65 years old still out there playing with the level of money that the new generation going to the Champions Tour has made? If that makes sense. So, I’ll give you an example. Like Charlie Hoffman and Ryan Palmer and Zack Johnson are getting ready to turn 50. Do they really need to go play for 300 grand for 15 years? No. Do they want to go play for 5 years, hang out with their buddies, and compete? Absolutely. But if they did that at 45 to 55, then it would kind of be a cool mix. And I told Brian, why why wouldn’t you have those guys that you would love to watch and all my friends that grew up watching golf? You know, that be the leadin to the 3:00 show is the Champions Tour. 45year-old Zack Johnson winning a golf tournament at 258 and then it goes straight into Scotty Sheffler teing off on one at the Travelers Championship. I like that idea actually. Sort of a graduated tier, right? And then the other thing, let’s see if you can solve this one. You know, obviously Liv is still going and uh you know, they the reports are out there of how much money they’ve lost, but you know, they they have a lot of money to lose. Let’s be honest. Uh that this is not a this is not a profit industry. That’s not what the end goal is is here for Liv if we’re honest about it. If players wanted to start to come back to the tour that left to go to Liv and play and took the money and now they want to come back because you know, hey, it’s the PJ tour is is the highest level of competition. How would you manage that? How would you facilitate those guys coming back? The interesting part of that is like the guys that are the superstars that you would want back on that tour about have just about played so long over there that they’re not going to have status on our tour even if we let them back in. Right. Correct. Like the time the time gap I thought in my little brain in South Carolina said, you know, if Liv goes away in two years doesn’t sustain, then Dustin Johnson and Brooks Keepa and Bryson the Shambo, they’re still going to be exil on our tour. They could probably pay a fine and still be right back to where they were. But now that that time’s gone so far, like what what do you make them do? Do you tell Bryson the Shambo to go to tour school and try to earn his way back? Or I I I don’t know. I’m not smart enough to figure it out. But uh if the equity program that the tour has unveiled really takes off, then the guys that have made so much money in that can’t complain about the money that they those guys took at live because now they’re owners of the PGA tour, which these guys are not. So, uh, maybe you you tell them they can never be equity owners or never gain shares from their performance because of what they did and they come right back. Uh, just an idea to throw around. Um, I think that would be a way to to allow them back. Yeah. Does does is golf better with everybody on one tour? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you can’t even watch the live product. I’m not hating on it, but anybody I talk to is like, I don’t even know what’s going on. I remember I got to East Lake to call the tour championship on Friday. Got in my hotel room and turned on the TV and it was on the channel that the lives on and I between all the stuff on the TV and they were playing some match play thing. I was like, I’ve been playing golf my whole life. I have no clue what is going on right here. Literally no clue. I watched for 20 minutes and I said, “Man, I I I got to turn this off. I have no idea who’s playing who and what they’re playing for and you know, all right, that team’s eliminated, but he’s still playing.” I couldn’t figure it out. Yeah, it’s well it’s kind of a mess, but you know that again I I don’t think the end game is what you and I would think the end game is. I think they’re there they they they want a seat at the table and I think now now the PGA tour is like I’m not sure we need you as much. Um you know and I’ll give Bryson credit though. He’s the only one that’s sort of managed to play in my opinion. I’d like to get your your thought on this. uh play well on live and still compete in majors like you know John Rom my god when he left you know he was the number one player in the world as dominant force and now you know it just feels like he can’t finish a major anymore and that I’m I I’m I’m not going to sit there and say it doesn’t have something to do with where he’s playing well when you’re playing against 54 guys instead of 150 and you’re playing on golf courses that are not nearly the quality that we play week in and week out on the PGA Tour and then you show up to a Beth Paige black, it’s probably pretty eye opening like, “Oh, my game’s not where I thought it was when I hit wedges on every hole last week and now I got to hit in this really tight fairway or I have 6 in rough and the greens are hard and fast. Excuse me. I don’t think they’re doing themselves any justice by helping their games where they’re playing now. Obviously, they’re unbelievable players and they can play anywhere when they’re playing. But, you know, you watch a guy like Cam Smith, his career’s just really fallen off the table when he’s gone over there. And I, you know, at some point, is it the money that I don’t really have to play anymore or is it that I’m just not I’m only playing 14 times a year and I’m playing 54 holes against 54 guys without a cut, so I’m not practicing as much. Uh, it wouldn’t motivate me to get out there and really grind. I know that. Yeah. Look, what Dustin said it best. I didn’t come to live to play more golf. I came to play less. I mean, he he put it out there. So, look, we’ll see what happens. Obviously, Liv is determined to keep this thing going and eventually we’ll see if there’s a there’s a brokerage of peace somewhere down the road. But, uh, let’s finish with this because this is a thing that I I don’t think a lot of people understand about tour players. The college football thing is huge on tour. Like, it is it is massive between you guys, whether you’re Georgia guys, Alabama guys. Uh, what did you make of of the whole Lane Keifin situation? Like to me, co there’s nothing more lawless than the college football head coaching cycle. Like in the hiring cycle, there are just no freaking rules, man. And people go out there and poach like in the NFL. No, we have tampering rules. You can’t do that. Yet these guys are It’s just like the wild wild west out there. I just cannot imagine asking a university that’s paying me $9 million and I tell them I’m going away that for them to expect to allow me to coach the team while while I’m recruiting for another school. Yeah. It’s like what? So, he’s calling the LSU recruits and probably the Old Miss recruits to come to LSU while he’s practicing on your facility. Doesn’t work for me. I had I did an outing with Dan Hicks on Monday. I said, Dan, that would be like you telling NBC, “Hey, uh, I’m going to go call the Masters, but I still want to do the US Open and the British Open, so I’m just going to go do that one week for them.” What are you talking about? No, no corporation in the world. Nobody. Yeah. See you later, bud. Um, it just fascinated me that he thought in his head that was going to happen and that I think what he thought is the players loved him so much that they were going to fight for him. But I think they that that’s all turned out to be different than the way he perceived it. Well, or the way he said it because, you know, he said all the players wanted me to do it and you see all these chiefs of players. That’s not exactly how it went down. So, yeah, we wanted you to hit the road, bud. Yeah, it’s crazy. So, good. Good for him. Whatever. We’ll see what happens. But, uh, for sure. Yeah. Well, listen, man. I know you got to get ready and and head out this weekend. So, I appreciate some time. I I really it’s been fun watching you sort of grow into the role and I I know it’s a lot of travel, especially with the young kids, but uh it it’s a good listen. So, as long as you want to do it, keep doing it. All right. All right. Let’s get together and do something one of the weeks you come out. I’d love to do it. Love it, brother. That’d be great. Thanks. All right. I appreciate you having me on. Thanks, Kiss. So, once again, thanks to Kevin for joining us. We hope you enjoyed uh the listen. He’s an interesting guy and uh we see what happens with him going forward uh in his broadcasting career as well as his playing career. Again, if you like this, please make sure you tell your friends, click that like and subscribe button wherever you get your podcast or if you’re watching on YouTube. It really helps our audience grow. We’ve got a lot of great golf content coming up in the next few months that I think you’re going to be really excited about. So once again, thanks for watching and we’ll see you next time on the Straight Facts Only Podcast.