A deep dive on Zero Torque putters with Odyssey’s Cody Hale and PGA Tour pro Justin Lower

On this week’s episode of Fully Equipped, GOLF’s Johnny Wunder is joined by Odyssey Tour Rep Cody Hale and PGA Tour pro Justin Lower to talk the new Tri-Hot Square 2 Square putters that were officially revealed today, if the zero torque craze is a fad or here to stay and how a gear junkie free agent like Justin tests new product on Tour.
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Square to square tryhop. Give me the tour rep. If you’re walking up to Justin going, I got a new putter. What are you telling Justin about the trihop? We took the the construction of our trihot putters, which I thought was one of our best lines and and one of the cool technology stories shifting the weight forward behind the face, moving the CG, uh creating a really stable environment. So, we took that construction. So, it’s it’s three different pieces. We use tungsten, we use steel, we use aluminum. We combine those to move the CG forward basically to get less onset. So to put it into more conventional spot where guys have access to use um you know the the zero torque style of putter um and in this category to use that without having to alter their setup or feel like they have a ton of forward press or use a specific grip to get into that setup. We’re building, you know, we’re building options in this more conventional look. Three different head styles. Um new insert. Um it’s going to be we’re trying to get back closer to the classic wide hot OG. It’s got deeper grooves. So, not only does it have more consistent uh speeds across the face like AI has, it’s a little bit softer and then obviously we’re seeing uh with the grooves and the way they’re angled, we’re seeing more top spin benefit. So, um you know, it’s nice to compare basically to pair all those together. Uh you know, you don’t want to have to use the consistency across the face, but that’s the beauty of a putter is that you have it if you need it. Well, that’s a pretty good sales pitch. I have a weird kind of fun show. I’ve never done this before. We have a PGA tour and like quiet quiet gear head uh Justin Lower and then a dear friend of mine, my old coworker from Odyssey Golf, uh PJ tour rep for Odyssey Golf, Cody Hail. Boys, welcome to the show. Thank you. Excited. Thanks, Johnny. It’s gonna be a little tricky because there’s Huh? What did I say? Lower. Justin Low. Yeah. Lower. Yeah. You know what? Justin Lowour. We’ll we’ll we’ll we’ll edit that in. U Well, that’s good cuz I’ve been calling you Justin Lower literally since I met you. So, it happens every first t-shot. So, don’t worry about it. Well, people people call me Johnny Wounder sometimes, too. So, it happens. Um, okay. So, we’re going to talk we have some some Odyssey product to talk about that’s coming out uh this week. We’re going to get into that with Cody, but let’s just start with you two. Like, how much do you guys interact? How do do you guys know each other? Do you guys talk a lot out on tour? Like, walk me through your guys’ relationship just to get going. And Justin, I I’ll I’ll let you take it. I’ll let you start it off. Okay. Yeah. Uh I see Cody every now and then. Um I’m always kind of on the putting green and if I get a little bored, I uh I tend to go look at other putters and just try to see what’s what’s out there. And uh I I love putters. I don’t know what it is about them, but um there’s more than one way to get it in the hole. And I think it’s uh I think it’s kind of nice to um kind of change up what you’re looking at from time to time, whether it’s the make of the putter, the model of the putter, or the sighteline of the putter, anything like that. And uh Cody usually has something for me to try, which is always fun. And uh I think he’s probably a little mad I haven’t put any in play, but uh but uh no, it’s always it’s always fun to kind of bounce ideas off of them and see what see what they have going on. Well, the nice thing about Cody is he always gets you. He always gets you in the end. At some point before it’s all said and done, he gets one in there. So Cody, like tell me a little bit about, you know, any workings you’ve had with with Justin and and you know, kind of what what your perspective of of just his game in general, like you just just following along. Yeah, I mean we uh you know we we like to bother Justin a little bit, Joe and I do. And you know, he’s always great. You know, I think the one thing um you know, people don’t see is it’s great to have feedback, too. So whether a player puts it in or not, I mean, it’s always, you know, great player like Justin, a good putter, you know, it’s always nice to have their feedback on feels and different uh different styles and new putters that are coming out. So, uh, we’ve obviously gotten to know him over the years and, uh, you know, love to watch him play and how he goes about his routine. Um, you know, I thought we might have a chance last year with a putter that one of our top, uh, top player uses that might or may or may not be red, but, uh, you know, he didn’t give me that opportunity, but we’ll keep trying. Um, okay. So, I want to talk this is kind of a fun it’s is this is a creates a fun conversation because and and Justin, you and I were talking about this before we started recording is is like putter technology, right? Like, you know, where it’s going and and where the trends are going. So, you know, Odyssey now has their new square to squares coming out this week. Some new models, some red models. You know, they’re going to be all over social media and all over the media and um but those are that’s the new trend. It’s it’s the you know, we’ll call it zero torque, low, low torque, whatever you want to call it. You know, everybody’s got a got a different definition for it, but you know, Cody, I’m going to start with you. You know, you were you’re sort of familiar with like the center shafted space coming from Seymour and a little bit of of your past, but like you know, just as a tour rep and seeing technology progress the way that it has. I mean, where where’s your head at on all this stuff? Is it too much, too little? Is that like where do you sit? I yeah I mean it’s it’s obviously created its own category now and coming from a center shaft you know primary center shaft company um you know we talked a lot about it but this is you know a little bit different I mean you have the putter space has become more competitive um over the last year or two and so obviously with the introduction and um you know increased usage of zero torque or you know what what however you want to we call it square to square uh potters Uh so I think it’s I think it b you know there there’s a lot of benefits for some players. It may not it’s not for everybody clearly u but there are a lot of players who you know who would benefit from a model like this. So you know we’ve introduced some models uh over the last year or so um in the square to square category and uh you know with the idea that we would continue to push this forward as we see you know obviously there’s a market for it and a lot of you know just regular consumers could benefit from this technology right and then this week they’re coming out with their Odyssey you know square to square tryhot which is you know tryhot did really well when it was just you know normal before it was all the square to square so um Justin how much experience have you have you have you dealt D into this world at all with like the Odysseies or the labs or basically every company has one now. Have you screwed around with that a little bit? Have you talk to me a little bit about about that? All all the time. Uh my collection of putters uh my collection of putters continues to grow and uh I just, you know, I I I try the new technology and I try the the labs, the Odysseies, the whatever you want to call it, whoever makes them. And uh whether it’s just uh whether it’s just more of a a uh a centerbalanced um mallet putter or a zero torque, low torque, square to square type of putter. Um I’ve tried them. Uh they’re I I love the idea of them. I do. So do I. Yeah. I like the idea of them makes so much sense just to return the club face uh as square as possible coming through. I do think it takes a little aspect of feel away, which is something uh that I I think is really big for putting especially for me. So, uh I tend to always end up back with a blade plumber’s neck uh Anzer style, Newport style, whatever you want to call it, uh type of putter. And well, that’s this is where these conver well this is where these conversations get fun because you need to be, you know, and it’s not a lack of performance or it’s not this putters these putters don’t work thing. It’s, you know, it’s it’s um and Cody, I’m going to let you kind of run on this one, but um this is why putter fitting is so important. You know, the the the lower torque putters, you know, in my experience, you know, working or or talking to any tour player, some of them some people love them. Like you have your absolute instant adopters that think they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread. And then you have your field players, which I would call you, Justin, a pure field player. um that tend to wrestle with them a little bit. You know, like you know, people that like to see a a toe kind of release and kind of do what it’s supposed to do. Um you know, some of the comments that I’ve heard back is that those low torque putters kind of fight you a little bit. You’re having to work hard to, you know, to to kind of make the stroke that you want. So, Cody, I’m going to ask you fitting players into these lower torque putters, what are the benefits that you see and then what are the challenges that you see? Um obviously, it’s player specific, but just in a broad sense. Mhm. Yeah. You’ve got so you’ve got so many different, you know, setups and and the way guys move and what they what their movement patterns are and the profiles of their stroke. So it’s you know and that’s why we say we we feel like we have something for everybody in ter you know not just one category of a square to square zero torque because you know you you start looking at players whether it’s Justin or other players who have putted with something with you know a forward CG and and something in a blade style uh where you sort of more or less drag the you know drag the CG into the ball and and that has matched up with either their profile or their feels and they’ve they’ve developed you repeatability over that over the years and uh and clearly that’s matched up with, you know, Justin’s setup and the way he moves a putter and and other players. So, you know, you got to be careful because if you just go and, you know, we just start introducing a new putter like a a square to square into something, you know, into maybe his just normal setup and and the way he moves the putter, it may not balance to the stroke. So, he’s constantly fighting the resistance or lack of resistance to that. So it equates to, you know, could equate to, you know, start line inefficiencies or speed control because you just don’t have that face awareness. So I think that’s a that’s a, you know, a battle we have to constantly look at as we’re, you know, measuring players, whether it’s on quintic or working with players on the putting green is is sort of seeing what type of balance and uh and setup of the putter more or less allows the putter to have less resistance in their putting stroke. And that may be a blade um a plumber neck type blade or it may be a a square to square. And so I think uh on the flip side of that players who struggle with you know and there there are players on the PGA tour who struggle with hitting the face uh in the center a lot and and with you know I mean they’re all good putters there obviously they’re there for a reason but you know inconsistencies in rotation. Um, and then we also see guys who have a right miss tend to uh that tends to combat that a little bit. So, you’ve got a couple things we can look for um in terms of like what how they’re moving the putter and what their stroke profile looks like and how we can set that putter up to produce a better start line um and you know and better speed control and hitting the center of the face. Is it is it fair to say that um because I’ve said this for a while since these things started hitting me. Even when we brought square to square when I was still at Callaway, I’ve always said like these putters specifically, you need to get fit into them. Like a fitter needs to say, “Okay, after everything we’ve tried, this is where you need to go.” And I’ve I’ve always been kind of believer that they are they are really really good putters. If you’re struggling, if you’re struggling and you need to get back to stasis, the lower torque putters are like, you know, kind of plug and play to kind of fix you, that to get to create fair face awareness because I feel like when you start struggling, it’s the face that you lose. But I’ve yet to see those putters make a good putter, Ben Krenshaw, right? Like I’ve never seen that jump, but I’ve seen people that are struggling go into these things and really really turn themselves into pretty good putters uh when they didn’t have it before. So, so Justin, you know, um, like of the models that you’ve tried, and it’s okay, this is a brand agnostic show, but of the models that you’ve tried, like what ones were close? Like what, you know, was there any like was there an Odyssey model or a lab a lab model that kind of caught your eye? Uh, I’ve tried every lab model. Um the uh the newest one with the uh the kind of neck on it. Uh I’m not sure what it’s called. The Oz Oz neck or Oz Huzzle, something like that. Yeah. Um that one was close. Um but it’s it’s still like I don’t know what it is about those putters. Like theoretically it makes like I said earlier, it makes so much sense. Like it but I feel like it almost turns you into a robot. Like if you’re not like like if you’re not aimed perfectly or if you’re not like if something’s off like the like it’s going to go exactly where you want it to go, but it may not be I don’t know it may not be correct if that makes sense. Um I’m having a hard time I’m having a hard time explaining it, but uh I’ve tried some of the Odyssey ones too. Um, and uh I mean they’re like I said it they make sense all like all all of them do even the like the tailor the new tailor made ones the all of them and like I think if you really struggle keeping the club face square or if you just want to get the club face back to zero at impact or somewhat close to zero at impact I think it’s perfect for you. Um like I think they could help the everyday golfer for sure. Um but um yeah, it’s I it’s strictly a feel thing for me and it it just I always end up back with something more traditional. Okay. So So Cody, Odyssey is obviously number one putter on tour every week. I think it I think it was the number one putter on tour every week except for like two weeks last year or something crazy. Um, so of the of the staff or the the players that you have in the field every week, how many guys, and we’re going to we’re going to jump off this zero torque thing here in a second. I just want to end it with this. Mhm. How many of your players are actually wanting to experiment with it just to try it out? Because you have your guys like Xander and, you know, and and Sam Burns and those guys are, you know, they’re not going to like Sam Burns isn’t going to try a zero torque putter. It’s just not his Xander’s going to try maybe one. I don’t know, but like what in your experience like who’s testing these things beyond the players that put them in play? Mhm. I mean, we have a obviously we’ll have a number of players that that will test them from a staffer standpoint. I mean, we’ll probably have um you know, we’ll have 10 or 15 guys that will test these. Uh like you said, I mean, Sam Burns number one putter on tour um this year. He probably not in in a in a testing mode, if you will. uh and rightfully so. Uh but he’s in one in one of our new AI models, so perfectly fine. Uh but no, it’s we will have 10 or 15 uh 10 or 15 guys that that will test him and we’ll have we have a number of guys that we think that that can benefit. We’ll see. We’re just starting to see these the new square to square tryh hot putters out. Um so we’ll see what comes out of it this this offseason and in the next few weeks. But um yeah, I mean guys that uh you know we look look at the analytic side and starting to look okay their mis distribution um you know one are they you know are they struggling and would they be open to testing this time of year as some of them are still fighting for their tour cards. So you know you you have to weigh all this out but I I think there’s a number of them that could benefit from something like this that could provide some you know basic impact consistency if you will. Uh, and and a lot of it, you know, with is paired with, you know, the insert. So, it’s, you know, speed, consistency, starting it online, hitting it in the center, those those things. I mean, I don’t know of any player that doesn’t want to do those things. Uh, so, um, yeah, I I I think we’ll have we’ll start sending them out. Uh, we have been I think we even built Justin once a couple weeks ago. Like I said, we’re always trying. Um but but we have a range of we we have so many uh so many you know different models that we can choose from. And obviously with this new line of square to square tri we’ll have three models. It’s a Rosia 7 and a Jailbird. And the one I think the one cool thing before we move on on these is that where most of this category has had a lot of face progression where the shaft goes into the back. We we’ve been working on this for like you know probably well over a year is trying to get the CG where most of those the CG’s back and the shaft axis runs through that. That’s how you sort of get this type of balance um and weight distribution. We’ve moved the CG forward. It’s a multi-material construction. So we’ve been able to get the shaft more in a if you will conventional looking position. So, not only do you get access to the technology, but you can get it where it’s you don’t have the shaping. You don’t have to use a specific grip to put your hands in position and trying to alter a player setup uh around the putter where we can use more of a, you know, a conventional look and and sort of, you know, integrate that into what the player’s already doing. Well, that’s where technologies that’s where technology is getting cool, too, is you know, even in a short time with, you know, this discovery of these zero torque putters, you know, people are getting better and better at, you know, figuring out where the shaft needs to go. All them, you know, like tryhot obviously as a platform, um, very successful platform from like 20 years ago and we brought it back out. I think 2022 did very, very well. Obviously, very stable. I think we had the highest MOI putter for a while there and it was in like kind of blade putter. Um, so, you know, really, really cool stuff. But the one thing that I I told uh Justin before we started recording was this is how crazy gear people are. And you tell me if you agree with this, Cody. So he putts with a PXG Brandon putter, which is like a 009 or a Ping answer, you know, call it what you will. So it’s one of those ping knockoffs, right? I have a hunch that in the next 5 years, technology is going to go so far that in five years, everybody’s going to want like a Newport or a Ping answer again. Like is this going to go back to like 32? It’s going to go back to really light heads, whippy shafts. Do Do you think there’s a world where that happens? And I think it’s going to be out of I literally think it’s going to be out of like, well, screw it. I just want to go back to what I was doing before, like just to keep it interesting. It very well could. I mean, you know, I I’ll say this is and we we track, you know, obviously the performance of um how you know the usage of square to square zero torque models on tour and of of all brands and you sort of you’ve seen it level out a little bit. Obviously, the market’s doing something different. Um, as as it benefits a lot of regular golfers and amateur golfers, but uh it’s sort of neat because you you know now uh for years I mean obviously there were a lot of a lot of usage with blades. I mean we’re 80% mallets because we can build you know we can build mallets that play like blades uh and obviously mallets with more stability but you get all the alignment benefits out of you know different mallets. So, it’s it’s going to be interesting to see where it goes because it’s, you know, some of the the zero torque models um have, you know, there’s still a lot of testing going on and we’re still introducing a lot and we still feel like there’s a lot of players that could benefit from it, but as far as the usage on tour, I mean, it’s sort of it’s pretty level right now. Yeah. Okay. So, we’re going to pivot off of Odyssey and putters and all that stuff. We’re just going to talk about golf. So, Cody, you know, Justin’s a tour player, so we always know that. Cody in his own right is a an elite golfer as well. So, we’re going to talk a little bit about equipment. Um, cool thing about Justin’s bag is he does have some Callaway love there at the top of the bag. He’s got, you know, the now Colt Classic TD Max driver, AI smoke, and I think you got a Maverick 3-wood in there, which is just a wild scene. I think it’s like 5 years old. Uh, the Maverick 3wood. Yeah. And then the I think you still have a W in there. Um, so you are an interesting case study for equipment because like I said, you’re a field player, but you’re low hands, you flat lie angles, shot shaper, you do all that kind of stuff. So, um, this question is for just for Justin for now. So, like your your equipment progression over the last call since beginning of last year, you you’re a tryer. I mean, like you’re not afraid to throw some stuff in the bag um to test it out. So, I think you got a bunch of titleless irons in your bag now and some Vokey wedges. like how hard is it for you to switch or when a switch comes what what what happens? Is it boredom? Is it like I just want to hit a certain shot and I can’t do it with these clubs? Like walk me through that real quick. I It could be anything. It could be how I’m feeling that day. It could be how I’m feeling that week. Um I like this year um it’s been obviously I haven’t played all that great so I’ve been probably doing maybe a little too much testing but it it is what it is. um we when we when we have the resources that we have, it’s very hard to not do it. Uh I think and obviously some guys have different rules like I will not test at a tournament. I will only test at home, stuff like that. I I figure if you guys are there, the reps are there and you guys can see everything and we can give the instant feedback. I think that’s probably better than any anything really. Um, and then obviously with all the technology that’s coming out now, um, just the ability to the ability to basically do whatever you want to the golf ball is it’s there basically. Um, and, uh, when it comes to me, just like really all I look for is if I’m able to hit the club solid, if it feels stable to me, um, and if it feels not overly light, not overly heavy. And obviously I’m more of a field player. I have I I would say more of a homegrown swing. I wouldn’t say it’s prototypical or in really any way, but um uh I I really look for just the way it interacts with the ground. If it’s a 3-wood on on down to a 60 or uh or basically with a driver, how it looks at setup. That’s basically all I look for. So So interesting. So Cody, I’m going to ask you this. like, you know, I used to work for a golf club company. You still work for a golf club company. Um, just as it relates to your game in technology and how you actually pick golf clubs cuz you’re obviously a very very established player. When you’re going through your bag now with all the modern technology, Mike, what are the what are the benefits that you’re seeing with everything that Callway’s, you know, bringing out cuz we’ll stick to Cal because that’s kind of all you can play. And then what are the challenges of getting into golf clubs these days? And you can’t use I don’t play golf cuz I don’t play golf either, but like just in a in a broad sense. um you know what as it relates to the golf equipment that you use when you’re playing personally like what what excites you and what kind of confuses you even still these days. Well, I was going to say you’re far too kind about my game because I definitely do not play enough uh when you have two kids running around. Well, you’ve played great golf before is what I’m saying. Yes. Uh yeah, and and fast maybe a little. Um, but yeah, I mean for me it’s it’s sort of it’s cool because I, you know, working on this side of the industry, as you know, we get to test a lot of product and have access to what Justin has access to every week, which is neat. Too much sometimes. Too much stuff. Yeah. And you you ask how do you choose product? It’s hard because if you you know, we’re we’re tasked to, you know, test this product out. So, you know, you know, as a player and if you’re a better player, you you sort of know see how these things react and you you can sort of have an idea when a player starts, you know, working with it and if they’re having an issue or if you’re trying to fine-tune equipment, you can sort of figure out what direction to go with it. So, you know, for us, we get obviously get to test a lot and I’ve, you know, I’ve tested a fair amount even not playing, but um for me, I mean, a lot of times when I’m fusing, I it’s a lot of what Justin said. I mean, to me it starts with how it sets on the ground. If if you can’t get over the look, I mean, it is hard to have that club perform. So, I want it to sit down, you know, the way I want I, you know, always like to see mine squared a little bit open in terms of the driver. So, trying to find something with that with high enough loft to where you you can control your spin and launch, uh, you know, numbers. So, uh, for me, it’s, you know, a lot about how the club sits on the ground and then from there, you know, starting to look at the performance and the data behind that. Um, you know, irons are the same way. Um, you know, could have four or five sets of irons here that you’re testing, but a lot of it comes down to, you know, there’s a lot of the irons are so good now. Um, there’s so many good irons out there across different brands. I mean, obviously love what what we have with uh with our our different lines. Um, and the options you can choose from something down to an NB all the way up to, you know, something forgiving that, you know, we still see guys that are playing high in the bag, three, two, you know, three, four irons. So, um, yeah, it it obviously starts with the look and then you can build around that. Yeah. So, like one of the things that I that I see like in in Justin’s bag, for example, your current bag, I mean, you have like, you know, titleless fits everybody on like the 3Ds. And obviously, I don’t think JJ and those guys are doing that with you guys out on tour, but they have this thing that’s like dispersion, distance, and uh descent angle essentially. So, they they they kind of fit everybody to a peak height. So, they basically say if your driver is 110 ft in the air, every club in your bag needs to go 110 ft in the air. That’s that’s or like you know if the tour averages 115 or 120 what whatever whatever the case may be. Um so when you’re in your set now Justin and you got you’re you know basically from full iron to lobers all titleless stuff is that something you’re paying attention to? So they use peak height as like their representation of proper spin, proper ball speed and proper strike. So smash, strike and spin are all kind of entailed in that peak height number because if you can’t hit it every time you’re not doing one of those things correctly, right? So your set did did it follow that model or you just kind of you know they JJ hand you a set of sticks and you’re like these will do like how does it work for you? Uh a little bit of both I would say. Um so um back to like the more feel aspect like obviously so I I have probably the flattest lie angles on tour. Um probably like four flat I think right? It’s like kind of like five. Yeah, it it might even be like like with the 60° it might be 60° flat, but um I I just do not like the heel digging at all. I want the toe digging if anything. I just think Yeah, I just think it keeps the club face a little more square through impact. But um uh the thing I look for um mainly with irons is I look for spin, launch angle, and peak height like everyone said. And then I feel like once you get those dialed in, you can kind of dial in the dispersion from there. Um, as long as it’s not over spinning, not under spinning, and then as long as you’re hitting your carry numbers, I think that’s pretty easy from there. And like Cody said with the the technology now, all the irons, they’re all pretty good. I think it kind of depends what I think it all kind of depends what kind of feel you want. What do you want? Like a harder a harder, firmer, clickier, more feel? Do you want more of a buttery, soft, quiet feel? Um, so it just kind of depends on what you want. Well, I kind of see it like and and Cody, I’m going to flip this over to you, too, because you’re you’re you’re just as good of a of a of a club fitter as you are a putter fitter, right? I mean, you’ve you’ve been brought up to kind of do it all, right? So, you understand like when Kellen and those guys are out on the range, like you kind of obviously you have a working man’s knowledge of what’s going on out there. So like if you’re taking all these companies and if we’re going to use you know Callaway, Titalist and maybe Strickson for example which is kind of like the three more popular maybe Tailor Made but to me like in the players cavity back or the the kind of cavity backs that you would see on tour all of those profiles every company has their players cavity back to me in the air they all do the same thing at that point it’s like what kind of music do you like? Do you like rock and roll? Do you like jazz? Do you like and it comes down to like turf interaction? Do you like long long blade length? Do you like some offset or no offset turf interaction? You want some bounce? You want it to dig? Do you want it to skip? Like what do you want it to do? And that’s where, you know, like to to coh to Cody’s point with what Callaway is doing, for example, with the X Forged. That’s taking into account, you know, obviously it’s a one piece Japanese forging, but that’s the first time in a while that people really are paying attention to the soul. You know, Stricks kind of started that conversation and now you’re you’re seeing every company starting to delve into that. How do you make this club go through the turf as fast as humanly possible? Whether you’re shallow or you’re steep. So, so Cody, like when you’re out there on tour watching Kell and those guys, like you know, of the of the TCBS and the X Forge and everything that’s out there, like what iron do you kind of lean towards as a player? Like what one kind of catches your eye? Not the ones that Joe and those guys are asking you to go test, like what ones if you’re playing for your life, like what do you what what are you throwing in the bag? Well, it started Yeah. and Kellen would would kindly tell me to go back to the putting green if I was standing over there probably. But um you know but uh no they I I so I started with TCBS but I always like like you were talking about you know looking at different offsets in the in the blade length. So for me personally I always like to see like a little higher toe little longer blade length. So I end up when when we came out with XForge and started having those I I immediately transition into to the new XForge. I mean, they have all the playability. You know, you still have a little bit of forgiveness. Just the overall look of them. Um, you know, they’re to me that just fits exactly what I was looking for in an iron. Um, so love the TCB. We obviously have a lot of usage on tour out of that. It just it’s a little bit more rounded than what I’ve I’ve typically like to see. And so, I don’t know if it’s just me personally and the way it looks on the ground. Um, and just seeing that it that longer length gives me a little bit more confidence uh in the iron. But, uh, it it it does everything I I want it to. And, you know, like Justin said, you got to start then looking at the numbers and peak height and spin rate and carry distance. I mean, you gota if you’re going to play good golf, you got to know how far your irons are going. Justin, did you have any I recall there was there was a time that you had I think you messed around with TCBS for a little while, didn’t you? Did you ever have any of those in your bag? Or was it mostly just our was it mostly just Callaway Woods that you that you would pro you know that you would kind of lean on? I don’t know if you ever played any of the irons. I don’t remember. No, mostly just the woods. Um I did try there was a uh I I could not tell you the uh the name of it, but there was a four iron that was kind of built to get a little higher. It had very little offset, which is something I was really looking for. Um cuz it seemed like all the ones It probably was. Yeah. But it was I mean it was it was amazing. But it almost had it almost kind of went the other way for me. It almost had too little offset to where all I was doing was hitting just fan cuts everywhere and I was like, “Okay, I can’t really do anything with that.” But um uh yeah, I I really just kind of stuck with I I love the Callaway Woods. I think they’re amazing. I I love that they still make um non-adjustable ones, actually glued in ones, and you can actually bend the line angles flat on those. Um back what Cody said, where you can actually see the club look on the ground the way you want it to. That’s that’s huge for me. So, yeah, they got uh I’m not going to tell you what it is, but the the driver I the one they got coming out next year is it’s a fun story. That’s a fun story. Yeah, it’s a fun story. Um, okay. So, I’ve I’ve kind of done this. I had Eric Van Rugan on the show and I’ve had Charlie How on the show and I, you know, I try to get as many tour players on it as possible, but one of the questions I will always ask them is like, if you had to build your childhood dream bag, like if we’re sitting here, we’re like, you know, going to go play a round of golf at Augusta and you get to build your ultimate bag with no company affiliation. So, Cody, you’re going to have to take off your chip chip brewer hat off for a second. If you’re gonna go build a bag and you’re gonna play your dream round with your dream forsome, I’m gonna start with you, Cody. I’m gonna put you on the spot. Oh, boy. Driver through lobber through potter. What are you What’s like what what is it in? I know what mine is, but what’s yours? So, all the way through the bag. Yeah. All right. Uh, well, you know, right now it’s it’s triple diamond max driver. That’d be So, it’s it’s elite. The smoke I drove I I actually did get to play a little bit last year, but the the smoke was so good. So I just basically transitioned that. I it I I’ve driven it the best probably even when I was trying to play after college. I you know just trying to play I you know I probably drive it better now than I I did then. Uh so that’s not coming out of my bag. Um so I I’ve got to go Triple Diamond uh Max Elite. Uh probably probably still stay I’ll probably running through the bag with uh you know the with the uh elite uh triple diamond 15 degree Udub old older Udub. I’m playing the the older model 19 the OG. Can I say something really quick? Really quick. The best club ever. Dude, there’s two there’s two things that Callaway made in my tenure that when I was there that they never should have touched literally not never should have touched. One of them they just kind of rebadged it, maybe shifted it TCBS and the OG the OG UW. They could have run that back for 15 years in a row and not had to change it and nobody would have said boo. if they would have just kept launching Apex W as it was when it came out that club and Cody, this is before your your time at Callaway, but I remember the first time that we we brought that out. I think Ash was the first on our staff to test it. It was at the US Open. This is a kind of a fun story real quick and Cody, I’ll let you finish, but like Ash went there and he wasn’t supposed to hit it, but we somebody brought it out to him to check it out and he hit it and this is like Sunday before Tory US Open. So he hit it and he started hitting these all these shots with it. You know, he just turns into an absolute craftsman with this thing. So he took it out on Monday and he played a practice round with Phil and I was walking with him. So they get to like the sixth or seventh, I forget what hole was. It was longer par three and was playing into the wind. It was a little cold that morning and Oshay gets up there and hits this little chippy UW, you know, straight up in the air. Lands like a, you know, like a pillow about six feet from the flag and Phil’s kind of looking at him like, “What the hell was that?” like what was that club? And he walks over and he kind of pulls it. I have a picture of he pulls it out of Ash’s hands. He looks at he’s like, “I’ve never seen this before.” And Ashley’s like, “Oh yeah, they uh you know they had it at ECPC yesterday.” And you could tell Phil was like, “Well, wait a second. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I’m the left-hander here.” Like, kid. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, I’m like watching. I’m kind of watching Phil. And at that point, I’d converse with him enough to know him a little bit. I’m like, “I don’t think he’s super stoked on this whole situation.” So I start wandering back to the truck and I don’t know how this happened but sure as hell everybody on the truck’s scrambling building two UWS for Phil. So that means that at some point between when I got off the tea and walked to the truck which is about a 20minut walk he had texted somebody something like a to whom it may concern text message or email and he had the whole company scrambling building them UWS. had to send somebody over to ECPC, grab the heads, bring them back to the truck, and they built him and he actually put it in play that week. But that was like the power of Phil. Like he was just coming off of winning the PGA Championship, but that’s what started like the whole Udub thing and and actually still has that same UW in his bag today, which is crazy. Anyway, I just want to get that story out. So, Cody finished. So, you’re you’re at Hey, it’s it’s reliable and you know what it’s going to do. I mean, you you can’t give up that. Um All right, we we’ll go irons. So that that pretty much is my my wood setup. Irons, if I could play the Apex MBS, that’s what I would play next. The new ones, they’re so good. Yeah, I mean I I’ I’ve hit them. I’ve got a set. I’m looking at them right now. Uh they are beautiful. But if I if I start playing a little more, I might blend the set. So I might go, you know, wedge through, you know, seven iron in the MBs and then have the uh the X forge. I’m playing the 24×4. So, what about what about what about wedges? That’s a tough one. I mean, we you know, our new wedges are really good. They really Let’s mix Let’s mix it up like a Ping or something. It it I mean I play so you know just since this is a brag agnostic show, I played Toddless Wedges all growing up. Uh so I played Vokis forever. I very familiar with them. I played them pretty much all through my career. Um, so I mean they obviously make a wonderful product and so you know that’s that’s pushed us to start making you know better wedges and and Dean and the team has done a great job with it. So I’ve got I’ve got SPs in my bag but obviously Vokei makes a great one. Yeah, they do. I mean they look like to to be fair again it’s in wedges wedges are becoming like irons and anything else. Everybody everybody makes an elite wedge. I mean, there is no bad wedges. I mean, Ping makes great wedges. Cleveland obviously is Cleveland and V. They again, it’s not like, and one of the things that I really found out kind of coming out of the Callaway bubble was that every single company makes bangers. Like, nobody makes bad golf clubs anymore. It’s just whether or not it’s a great one for you, right? So, it’s extremely competitive and I think everybody kind of tells their different version of a of a story. But, um, now the last the last question I have to ask like if Putter What putter are you like what putter are you putting into play? Put it like give me something good though. Give me some long neck Cody Hail special. I’ll just go I put a roster. I mean look you see behind me. Look at this. I mean look at all these I’ve got bag a couple bags here that I can choose from. So what’s what’s the crown jewel? Well I you know I have there’s a couple um being you know a primarily center shaft user for a while. I have a couple. There’s one of them is a TRA Rossy that’s got a cut and weld center shaft and it’s nice. It’s it’s hard to get out of the bag and it is it’s painted all black. It’s got a it’s got a white hot insert. It just it it’s it’s what I always go back to. If you said, “Hey, you got to go play in a tournament tomorrow.” That’s probably the one that’s coming out. But then I also have I do have a cut and weld long neck. Um that’s uh well I’ve got a draft beam too that you know that one’s those are those are sick. Long neck. Uh, bronze, black insert, AI drafting. That’s a cool piece, too. It’s a nice piece. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s That’s the beauty of being on this side of the business. I You get to create a lot of But if you’re saying, “Hey, I’ve got to go tomorrow. We’re going we’re going tryh hot Rossy center shaft.” See, nice thing about you is and and even when I was at Callaway and I I was able to get 98% of what I wanted. Putters were the hardest thing because if he wanted something really bespoke, really bespoke, I either go through you or I had to like bribe Felo to do something and it was like, you know, you get like one shot a year to get that done. Um, and I still have I’m going to get to my my I’m going to talk about my putter here in a second, but all right, Justin, you’re building a bag. Don’t say your current bag is a boring answer. Give me like your you’re going to play. Give me your your alltime bag. Alltime bag. Okay. So, I I I want to give you two answers. I want to give you my current bag. So, I’ll say that. I That’s the boring answer, but now I will go completely off the rails here. Okay. Uh the original M1 driver. It was It was so good. I don’t know what it was about it. It was so So was the M2. The M2 is like a cult classic. Yes. The M2 is very good as well. Yeah. So, I will go um M1 driver, the original. So, this goes back to my high school days. 3-wood and fivewood. I I’ll go Cleveland launchers. Yes. With the gold shaft that they were like they had like some texture to them. Those things were amazing. David specials. Yeah. Yes. I had a 15 degree and a 19 degree. Things were amazing. Uh then I’ll go to the irons I played in high school. MP33s. Yeah. Don’t know why those now we’re getting somewhere. I have no idea why, but um I I still have them to this day. I will never get rid of them. Uh I do need to I do need to regrip them, maybe get them fixed up a little bit, but I I look at them almost daily when I’m home. Wedges. This is where it gets difficult. Um because I think the wedges nowadays are amazing. Um, but I’m gonna go I think it was was it 2009 when they made the square groove change rule. So I’m gonna go Oh, 2000 2010. 2010 is 10. Yeah. So I want I want wedges from like 05 04 somewhere in there. Yeah. Um, so give me like a tailor made rack wedge. The there’s like a black gunmetal one. I had that one thing with the rack TPS. Yeah, those are great. Random story. So, I played the Optimist International Junior Tournament. I don’t know what it was called. It was at uh PJ National and Tailor Made was out there and I started hitting this wedge and I was like, I don’t want to give this thing back. And they’re like, well, you have to give it back. And I’m like, I I want to put this thing in play like right away. I I gave them back my Vokey wedge that I had and kept that wedge like without I like I just kind of went and snuck it in the bag and then I left quickly and went to the putting green. Left the rings quickly. So I basically I basically stole it uh without stealing it. So I’m I’m not admitting to anything there. But um No, it’s fine. It’s fine. This is you have a this show obviously grants you a good level of of immunity for anything that you’ve done. So you’re fine. Yes. And then um I’ll just take uh I I’ve I’ve been a Vokey guy forever. I’ll take um uh like one of the original SM 60° low bounce. Um, and then, um, putterwise, if I had to, if I just woke up and had to putt, um, I have a rife Aruba, uh, that I bought that I bought for $50 in a place in Augusta, Georgia. Um, I’ll probably never get rid of that one. It’s probably it. So, h, have you ever gone Let me ask you a question. As a tour player, have you ever wandered into a shop and bought equipment and put it on put it out on tour? Like I do it all the time. Do you really? I I go to golf stores and I the first place I go is the used section just to see if there’s a relic there or something something there that maybe someone turned in that could play maybe a little bit just like or maybe it maybe it got lost in a tour pros divorce or something and the wife turned it into the golf c the golf who knows who knows yeah yeah uh but um no I’ve I’ve definitely done it with a putter um that rife putter cutter that I have. Um I bought it for 50 bucks in a place in Augusta, Georgia. And um but yeah, I’ve I’ve done it before. Yeah. So you’re a degenerate. Like you’re a true like you’re you’re a gearhead degenerate. Yeah. Way to go. Uh quiet quietly. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That’s why that’s that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you on the show. I mean I have you have like your high-profile like gear junkies like your Charles Hows and like you know those guys are out you know they’re out they’re they’ve exposed themselves over the last 25 years. But you’re like, “Yeah, you’re that sneaky guy. You’re that guy that nobody nobody sees coming.” But like I I knew I knew. I saw it. But I want everybody else. We’re building We’re building a house right now. And when I get my golf set up, I will do a quick run, a quick recap video of everything I have. So interesting. Uh, so mine’s easy. Like I would go because I’m a hundred years older than you guys are. So for me, like I go back to like the late 90s. So, I go 975D, 973 wood. I throw the Apex UW in there as like my fivewood or my utility wood. Uh, long irons would be Ping I2 coppers. And then six through P six through pitching wedge would be 962Bs. Then I’d have a 54 degree gunmetal 588 and then the 26012 vokei which is like probably before you got time. you guys brought like 10 years ago. I remember those. Oh, that was the greatest magazine. I used to Oh, man. I was obsessed. That thing. And I think it’s I think now it’s just like an S grind. I don’t even think I think it’s still out in the wild. It’s just called an S grind, but when it was when you got a brand new 26012 Voki and you can only get chrome back in the day. I mean, I didn’t have access to the equipment I have now. So, like when you bought a wedge, like you went to, you know, golf store and got your new wedge and then you take it back to the golf shop and bend it and put lead tape on it and do whatever the hell you do to it to make it your own. Um, and then the putter. And I This is a my my my gamer if I had to make a 10-footer to save my family. Cody got me two years ago a Jailbird counterbalance like 600 gram putter. And I have two of them. And it’s the And I’ve I’ve I’ve taken them, especially in this new job. I’ve taken them into Tailor Made. And I took it into Scott, not Scotty, but Tailor Made Lab. Everybody that I’ve gone to and I’ll hit putts with that thing. And the fitters will look at me like, I can’t I can’t do anything with this. Like, this is a joke. Like, like, I can give you a putter, but it’s not going to be better than the one you got. And it’s got like a micro hinge insert in it, and it’s Everybody that picks it up askked me how I even make it work, cuz it’s so heavy. Um, but I literally call it my Cody Hail putter. And I that’s my putter. Um, and that’s And you lost one of them, huh? Well, yeah. Here’s another fun here’s another fun story. So, I had one, the OG one that I got, and I got it from, uh, from Felo, like I, you know, it wasn’t something I got off the truck. Um, but I was going to put a new shaft in it for God knows what reason. I just felt like I need a new shaft. Anyway, so I leave I pulled the head pulled the shaft out of the head, leave it on the on Cody’s little workstation there, and I think we were It was a couple weeks before it was the US Open, I think. Was it the US Open? It was the US Open last year. Yeah. So I believe the truck said, “Cody, we’re gonna reshaft this.” We’re, you know, another like Johnny Cody project like, “Hey, can you help me?” You know, randomly because I come in there and ask Cody for stuff and he’s obviously super busy, but I’m like, “Can you make this two handicapper this putter? Can you do this for me?” So this putter’s sitting there and I go back like on Tuesday afternoon, the putter’s gone. And I go, “What happened?” Like, “Bro, where’s my where’s the head?” He’s like, “Ah, sorry. Yeah, Windham Clark’s got it now.” He’s like, “I didn’t uh I didn’t have any more of those heads.” And it just so happens yours was sitting there. And I’m like, “What do you mean Windom Clark has?” He’s like, “Yeah.” He built it up and now Windom Clark’s got your putter. Sorry. I’ll build you a new one. And I was like, “So I went out to the range and I said, “Wendom, did you get a new putter?” And he’s like, “Yeah, I did.” I’m like, “Well, that’s mine. Just for the record, I’ve been putting with that thing for like three months.” He’s like, “Oh, well, it feels great. Thanks for the putter.” And he didn’t wasn’t like, “Sorry, dude.” Like it was kind of like screw you. Like I’m taking your putter from you. Wow. And that’s uh I don’t even know what happened to it now. Does he still putt with that thing? He’s changed putters like 100 times. He has changed putters, but he putted with it for pretty much the last half of the year. Um yeah. Yeah, that was one of the last ones with a micro hinge insert that we had and I needed it then. So we uh yeah, it went to a good Nothing’s safe on uh nothing’s safe unless you’re a tour player. Um okay, we’re going to end this here. So Cody, really quickly because I know everybody’s busy. Everybody’s got families and whatnot, but um square to square trihop. So, give me the give me the brief bullet points really quick. I know they come out on Thursday. They’ve been out on tour for a while. Give me the give me the tour rep. If you’re walking up to Justin going, I got a new putter. What are you telling Justin about the tryhop? Yeah. So, we’ve had it out to we we had it out at Sanderson Farms for the first week and then uh last week at at Bank of Utah. So, we’re just starting to seed them out. So yeah, I mean it’s like you said earlier, we took the the construction of our Triot putters, which I thought was one of our best lines and and one of the cool technology stories, shifting the weight forward behind the face, moving the CG, uh creating a really stable environment. So we took that construction, so it’s it’s three different pieces. We use tungsten, we use steel, we use aluminum. We combine those to move the CG forward um to to basically get the basically to get less onset. So to put it into more conventional spot where guys have access to use um you know the the zero torque style of putter um and in this category to use that without having to alter their setup or feel like they have a ton of forward press or use a specific grip to get into that setup. We’re building, you know, we’re building options in this more conventional look. Three different head styles. Um new insert. Um it’s going to be we’re trying to get back closer to the classic wide OG. It’s got deeper grooves. So, not only does it have more consistent uh speeds across the face like AI has, it’s a little bit softer. And then obviously we’re seeing uh with the grooves and the way they’re angled, we’re seeing more top spin benefit. So, um you know, it’s nice to compare basically to pair all those together. Uh you know, you don’t want to have to use the consistency across the face, but that’s the beauty of a putter is that you have it if you need it. Well, that’s a pretty good sales pitch. Now, Justin, would you buy that putter right now? If Cody Cody Hill rolls up on you on the putting green and gives you that pitch, are you buy you’re a buyer? You’re a buyer. I’m He already gave me one. Yeah. Or Joe Joe gave me one. Give me one. Yeah. Let me ask you a question. As a tour player between Joe, between Joe and Cody because they both have their own styles. Like Joe is like, and I say this with I love Joe, but Joe’s like the IRS. Joe shows up no matter whether you want him to or not. Like Joe’s Joe’s there. Like Joe’s present and it’s it’s out of nowhere. It’s like he’s unbelievable. Like it could be us three talking like in a triangle and he’ll like somehow come down like in like hey I’m here and it’s like how how did that happen? He’d be at your dad’s my dad’s member guest. I’m waiting for him to roll up on me at my dad’s member guest like who like what where’d you come from? But that’s what made him like I’m telling you what the guy the guy single-handedly became like like he built Odyssey’s putter program tour program. I mean just out of sheer will. I mean the kid he was he’s unbelievable and obviously Cody took it and and has obviously done amazing with it but Cody’s style is a little bit more hey buddy what’s going on what do you need like you know just so much more approachable so much nicer just try not to bother him too much he’s working out there it takes all kinds though like let’s talk about that for a second because the rep you know the tour rep thing is complicated sometimes you need to be like Joe Tulon you know you got to be assertive you got to I mean with certain players and Sometimes you got to be their best their best friend. I mean there’s no there’s no right way or wrong way. I mean that’s one of the things that I learned being you know being out there for 5 years was um you know it is horses for courses. You know every player needs a specific type of rep to get and it’s and it has nothing to do with the product to be honest with you. What I’ve learned a lot of this is just the relationship between the rep and the player. Um that’s why you see some really close relationships. Even if there’s better product out there in the world for that specific player, the rep, the rep and that player relationship is very, very important. So Justin, you as a free agent, you know, you have, you know, you’re a little bit more reliant on kind of PE kind of, you know, dealing with it on your own, so to speak. Um, but I’ll ask you really quickly before we wrap this up, like how important it isn’t, you know, when you’re going to with the Callaway Trucker, if you’re talking to reps, do you kind of lean on certain reps to to help you or are you just kind of like raise your hand and go, I need I need everything, so somebody show up and help me? Like, how do you approach that? No, I mean, there’s the I I will say the Callaway guys, and I’m not just saying this because Cody’s here, but the Callaway guys are probably the most top-notch crew out there. Um, even Kellen. I don’t know how, but I was gonna say, wait, wait, what? Um, no, but they’re all great and they’ve all been super great to me. Uh, the Titus guys have been great to me. Uh, there are certain ones that I like Nick Guyire. Nick is one of my favorite all-time favorites. I’ve I could talk shop with him all day. Uh Cody, Joe, Kellen, I could talk clubs with them all day as well. And I love watching them or I love having them watch me hit balls and have them give have me give them feedback and then have them give me feedback on what they can do and go from there. And I just I what I try to do is I try to keep good relationships with everyone out there, especially with the position I’m in. Um and I I just think it’s the easiest way to do it. So yeah, I mean it could go and Cody, you know this and I know this. I’ve saw it firsthand, you know, a few times with some players. I mean it can go the player the gear head player truck relationship can go south where it’s like every week you’re in there trying something else and there’s there’s a couple of case studies that we’ve seen over the last couple years where it’s gone like hey dude like this isn’t working like you’re coming in here and getting 15 new clubs every week. So there are there is something to be said for um you know like I kind of love how Rombo does it for example like Rombo doesn’t switch something unless it’s breaking or like it’s costing him money like that’s the only time he’ll even look at a golf club and it’s going to end up being the same club he had before it’s just going to have a couple of tweaks to it like he doesn’t and Xander’s that way too like they don’t they don’t screw around with equipment that much burns same thing if they’re going to take three Callaway players but then there is the guys like you Justin for example um that do I don’t want to say you pitch all the time, but you’re you’re you know, you explore, you like to see what’s out there, but you have seen success. I mean, you had a T3 last weekend. You know, your year has been your year. Um, but you’ve played some elite golf. Um, you know, you’ve had some good seasons over the last two or three years. Um, playing with a bunch of different stuff. So, it’s not like a commentary on just playing the sub. You’ve you’re a case study and something that changes equipment as the wind as the wind blows and it’s still seen quite a bit of success. I mean, made a shitload of money. Um, so it it’s it’s been cool. The one thing I want to ask you really quick and it just popped into my head. Players championship two years ago. Was it two years ago that you hit it in the water and then you hold out on your That was That was this year. Yeah, that was this year. Okay. I have to ask you a question. Okay. So, you hit your you hit your T-shot in the water and I think you actually hit a good shot. I think you just went over the green if I did. I flagged it. You flagged it. That little wedge shot. Cody, have you seen this shot? Have you seen it like on social? Yeah. He hits like this and that’s that wedge shot from the drop zone on at 17 in Sawrass is like no joke. Like it’s not an easy shot. It’s a weird angle. It’s a weird yardage. Everything about it sucks. You’re hitting onto a like a granite countertop green. Usually the wind from that angle the wind’s usually down because usually it’s blown left to right. So you’re kind of like oddly down or in across the wind. He hits like this. I’ve never seen it before. He hits like this kneecap to kneecap wedge shot like a foot off the ground. It skipped up and flew into the hole. Walk me through that really quick, JL. I just want to know like how how did you choose that shot? It’s something I practice. Uh I I don’t know why I practice it, but I think it’s really great for back pins. Um it’s just kind of like a low skipping spinner is like what I like to call it. Um uh I’ve played it. I don’t play it all the time, but there are certain areas where I’ll I’ll bring it out. And I thought that I honestly thought that shot would be perfect for it. And uh that was the only shot I’ve ever It was Yes. But that was the only shot I’ve ever hit from that uh drop zone. Um it was you hit one shot from that drop zone ever. And that was the shot that you picked. It was like it you know what it was like Cody? It was like going up on that on that drop zone T- box and going, I’m going to hit a Kury deck spinner here. Like just because like just screw it. Whatever happens happens. Like let’s try this out. Like what the hell? It’s just a players championship. You and me would be trying it out. You heard what he said. Like he practices. That’s what we need to take from this. A little bit of practice. See, I would try I would I would just raw dog. I’d get there put it off my right toe and just try just trying to slam down. I’d probably skull it and hit it into the water, but whatever. Um, but that’s like I got up there and I asked Chad my caddy what the yardage was and I was like I’m thinking to myself I was like it might be in my best interest to go back to the tea box and just hit the shot again because I was like this yardage is terrible. But I looked at Chad and I was like that low one might be pretty good here. He’s like yeah just get it on the green. I was like okay. So, I dropped it. And I I will say the conditions were perfect for it, too, because the greens were they were firm, but they they still had that that softness, some grab to them. Yeah. Still still have that grab. Like, if it was just firm and just bouncy, that shot, it probably would have gone in the water and I probably would have made like an eight. But, um, it it worked out perfectly to where it was still in the morning, still a little bit of dew on the ground, and you still had that grab and that spin. So, that’s why it worked out perfectly. Did it remind me of It reminded me of like when you’re, you know, back in my drinking days when with your buddy and you get like really drunk, you’re like, “Hey, you know what? Screw it. Let’s go to Vegas.” Like, “Let’s just go to Vegas.” It’s like 3:00 in the morning on a Monday. Like, screw it, let’s go. Like, that’s that that’s what that decision felt like. Anyway, it worked out. Uh, very very cool shot, guys. This has been a fun show. It’s been interesting. I don’t know how it’s going to play to the crowd, but as as for me and, you know, knowing both of you pretty well, uh, very grateful you guys came on the show. Uh, Odyssey Square to Square tryh hot come out Thursday. So, when the show launches, you’ll hear about the new putters. You’ll see pictures and all that stuff on golf.com fully equipped. Uh there’s a lot going on behind the computer screen here. My lovely girl is making soup. Uh and she is a absolute gem. Say hi, honey. Hi. Um but uh that is uh that’s Cody Hail. That’s Justin Lowour. Still going to call you Justin Lower when you’re not around because that’s what I’ve been calling you for three years. Uh but we’ll do this again. We’ll do this again for sure. I want to thank you guys for indulging me on this experiment, but I had fun. Uh, that is Fully Equipped episode 310. Uh, where do we find you, Cody? You’re at at Cody at Hailolf or at Cody Hailgolf. Cody Hail Golf. Yeah, at Cody Hailgolf. And you’re like J1. What’s your handle? JM Lower One. Yeah. JM Lower One. JM as in Michael and then L1. Yeah. Yeah. We got to pump We’re going to pump their numbers up a little bit. get those IG levels up. And uh boys, it’s been a been a pleasure and we will uh we will see you guys out on tour very soon. Cody, I’ll talk to you all the time, but uh Justin, I’ll see you very soon out on tour. Thanks for coming on the show and uh that’s a wrap on Fully Equipped. [Music]