Kevin Pietersen talks not fearing Australia, winning the 2005 Ashes & preparing for Mitchell Johnson

Kevin Pietersen joins Brad Haddin, you and Adam Peacock for a special edition of English Willow Talk. Kevin chats about why he never feared Australia on the field, the off-field battles he faced with the Australian public, playing in the BBL and falling in love with Melbourne, winning the greatest Test series of all time in 2005, preparing for Mitch Johnson in 2013/14, and the moment he knew he had to retire. He also discusses franchise cricket, the challenges Test cricket will face, and playing golf with Warne and Punter.
Plus, KP reflects on his match-winning knock in the 2005 Ashes, the best Australian bowler he faced, and his prediction for the 2025/26 Ashes!
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00:00 Intro
02:00 KP chats about his IPL role
06:00 Versing Australia and why he loved it
08:30 Playing in the BBL
10:00 Playing in South Africa
16:00 Facing Mitch Johnson in 2013
19:00 2005 Ashes and Brett Lee
22:30 2025 Ashes
24:00 Franchise cricket vs Test cricket
35:00 2005 Ashes
47:00 Ashes 2025 prediction
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[Music] Hello everyone and welcome to Willow Talk once again. Adam Peacock here, not here with me. Brad Haden on the road on his travels with the Australia India one day series. We’ll catch up with Hades a bit later in the week. Tell you what about in a second. Alisa Healey is obviously in India trying to win a World Cup. That’s a fair enough excuse. Once again, we’ll catch up with Heels shortly as well. Later in the week, we’re going to delve into all the big issues that are happening right now. Sheffield Shield, Manis looking good for a return to the test team, the one day is with India, the women’s World Cup of course and anything else that we feel like chatting about. Hads will be back in the studio with myself and we might hear from Manis later in the week as well. But we’ve got a really special episode lined up for the first one this week on Willow Talk. We kind of floated it out there on the Secret Cricket Club. Now, what is the Secret Cricket Club? Go to our Instagram page just below our bio on Willow Talk. The Willow Talk Instagram page is a link for the Secret Cricket Club where we kind of leak out a bit of info and uh maybe throw out the net for a couple of questions from you, the listeners. Um we asked who you might think it might be, giving away a few hints. A few came back and said Ravi Ashwin. Yes, we’re trying to line up Ravi Ashwin for a chat as the Big Bash. Obviously, he signed with the uh the Sydney Thunder. A few of you also said Stuart Broaden, Jos Butler. Uh Michael in particular said the soothing voice of Joss Butler. Again, we’re trying to line those two gents up. They’ve got a a good podcast going on over there in the UK. So, we’ll hopefully catch up with them in the coming weeks. Now, it’s someone else. It is a superstar of Ash’s past. He played in six Ashes series. Not bad for a South African. He obviously uh left South Africa to join English cricket, became one of the biggest names in cricket full stop. Still is not short of an opinion. It is Kevin Peterson. Kevin Peterson joined myself and Hads last week for a chat and here is that chat. It’s never a bad time to have Ash’s series royalty on Willow Talk. Brad Haden and Kevin Peterson joins us right now. He’s exactly that. The number of battles he had with Australia over his decade playing Ash’s cricket will never be forgotten and it’s great to have him on board for a chat today. KP, how are you mate? How are things? Morning guys. Uh, all good. All good. Not too bad. Bit chaotic as life all always is, but I’m glad we make time for this. I said to my um my office last week or two weeks ago, I was like, Jesus, I I haven’t done what I said I was going to do cuz Starky and them asked me in the IPL and then it was obviously that drama. Um, and then I was like, cy, I haven’t done this. So, I said, please contact you guys and go, let’s do it. So, let’s do it. Let’s do it, mate. Well, before we get into the good stuff, KP, I just want to go back to the IPL. I’m sitting there, I’m minding my own business, getting ready for warm up, playing Delhi. I turn to my left and I see you in a coaching capacity. I nearly fell off my chair, mate. you’re engaged with young um Ashtosh um at your holding court obviously and you look like you’re having a good time but when you play against different players m you always had great knowledge of the game a great way to play great mind but I thought there’s no way in the world he’s coaching what happened what happened I’m very close to the Delhi guys um Kieran is a is is a good buddy of mine uh I love the Delhi franchise I just I just really enjoyed my time at Delhi back in the day. Uh I probably had my best time with Delhi uh and grew so many friendships in in the city um with Kieran um being a really close friend of mine and uh it just came across the table um 3 or 4 months before the IPL and uh the one thing I love doing and I’ve always loved doing is helping young players. um a and try to improve young players. And it was my responsibility actually later in my career in the England side to to help the bowlers, Anderson, Tremblelet, all of these guys, especially that tour that that that tour that we came on when when um Mitchell was bowling the way he was bowling. It was sort of my responsibility to help the bowlers um bat, defend themselves, try and ek out an extra few runs at at some stage. And so I’ve always really enjoyed helping youngsters and helping people improve contrary to um popular belief um in in the wonderful media in this country. Um but uh it just came across the table. They asked me if I would do it. Uh and then I just had to negotiate the time and the price. Uh order. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly that order. Um and then um yeah we we we came to a conclusion that um I could hop in and out uh much to the uh delight of myself. But um yeah, a couple of the other mentors couldn’t quite believe that I was able to hop in and out as much as I hopped in and out. So it all comes down to negotiation, your negotiation skills. You need to start somewhere. You need to end somewhere. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I loved it. I had I I loved it. Honestly, the working with the youngsters, I mean, still I pick up my phone in the morning and these kids are messaging and speaking to me. I mean, I think Ash has just changed his hair color to what I had my hair like years ash’s haircut. I It looked fairly similar. Okay. Okay. It’ll come back. I’m sure it’ll come back. So, I might bring it back. Hey, um before we get into Ash’s talk, your kind of I don’t know relationship with Australia really like we’ve got it here that it was great cricket in the early 2000s. What do you what jumps out at you there from your your time in Australia and what are what you learned about the Australian way of life and the Australian way of cricket? Um, I wasn’t scared of Australia because Southern Hemisphere people are are are the same. Um, we’re ruthless. Um, we work hard. We’re patriotic. We are go-getters. We have that never ever say die attitude. And the game isn’t over until um the game is over. So, I didn’t worry about Australia or fear Australia or have any issues with Australia because um I was brought up in the southern hemisphere and so uh when I came to Australia I sort of accepted and understood that that’s the way that they were going to be because that’s the culture. Um I think the hardest thing that I ever had to deal with was being the pantoime villain from as soon as I stepped off the plane in whichever city I stepped off the plane until I left. uh a and then just being absolutely battered for the for the two months that I was there. I think that was the thing that mentally I had to deal with and challenge myself with and try and put put that to bed on on on most occasions and try and flip into white line fever whenever I practiced, whenever I trained, whenever I was doing something to try and make me better as a player. Um but I I understood it. I got it. I I actually I mean I I I struggled in Australia um as an England player off the field um just because of the pressures of being there and being the guy that you guys went after. Um on the field I absolutely loved every battle. Like the battles for me on the field were amazing. Like I just loved it. I know we got hammered in six seven and we got hammered in 13 14. Um, and we got up on you guys whenever that was, 9, 10 or 10, 11. But I just loved the battle. I loved every sing if even if we were losing, I loved the battle. Um, yeah. And then when I flipped colors, put a green uniform on and went and spent a lot of time in Melbourne. Like, I really got to see the best of Australia. Um, I really got to see the best of the people. Uh, I mean to get a standing ovation to finish my career off, I mean I’ve now finished it off in in um in the Middle East a couple a month or so after the big bash, but to see a send off at the MCG for a career that I was finishing um and the one that I got and the respect that I got from the Australian crowds was I mean it was it was very emotional and it it was it was a complete 180. I mean, my wife always says to me, like when she was with me playing for England compared to going to the Australian Open tennis at a time when I was playing for the Melbourne Stars, like she just couldn’t believe it. Like from being abused in the streets to guys running across the street for pictures, like she was like, “What the hell? Are we in a different like where are we here?” And so we hate and love easily down here. Hey, we hate and love easily at the same time here. It’s it’s just we I mean I understood it. I got it. Um but I can never ever say that it was easy when you’re playing for England and you’re the you you’re the you got the target on your back. Yeah. What What about KP walking into the change room in 2005? That unbelievable Ashes series, your first and it looked like for someone so new You relish the opportunity to to walk toewe with toe with the with the king McGra Brett Lee your special at the oval but it looked like you were just craving that challenge straight away. You guys and everybody makes a big thing about the ashes right but for the ashes for me English people and Australians worried about the ashes. I grew up in South Africa. Yeah. So for me actually my hardest venture was a month or two before that when I went back to South Africa and I played against South Africa. I mean I hadn’t played a game and they basically just said in the deep end buddy uh you don’t have a life jacket on you don’t have armbands on we think you can swim go and swim. Uh and that’s what I did in South Africa. So uh to walk away from the South African series um with the man of the series and scoring 300s in that series and believe me the hostility in a crowd in Johannesburg and in Bloomfenta that I faced there was nothing like your crowds. I mean you couldn’t even compare the the the the aggression. Uh you don’t you don’t even understand the things that were said to me. Um the noise when I walked out to bat at the Wonders that first time I represented England at in South Africa. I mean it was dude it was deafening like deafening. You know you walk down the steps on the Wonders and you walk down over that barrier. Dude I reckon if that barrier wasn’t there I would have been taken out. That’s how bad it was. Um so for me playing against War McGra Lee Warie was my buddy from Hampshire got to know Warie for six months before that. played played cricket with him, spend a lot of time with him um uh on the field talking about cricket, off the field talking about cricket. So for me it wasn’t it wasn’t a major thing for for you guys. Ash’s cricket major for me that that South African series was um was was was major. So when you reference what you went through at Wanderers for instance and getting plenty of advice about your lifestyle choices in Africans from your former mates as opposed to coming in at Lords when McGra’s on a heater, he’s taken three wickets in 5 minutes flat and all of a sudden he’s charging down the slope at you. You found that second gear as opposed to third gear over in required over in South Africa. Second gear as opposed to fifth gear. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you can understand it, right? You can you can understand it if you if you guys grew up in Australia, been there for 20 years, played played your whole life, your favorite rugby team is the Australian rugby team. All of a sudden, you go play for South Africa, okay, and you’re chucked into the deep end back at the MCG. Your first time ever playing for South Africa at the MCG. How do you reckon the Aussies are going to go? How do you think that walk down the steps there at the MCG is going to be? Yeah. Exactly like yours at Wanderers. Exactly. Exactly. So, and so that’s the that’s the thing that that’s for me why um Ash’s cricket I never really had any dramas with because I didn’t have that emotional connection to it like I like obviously I do with South Africa. You talk about the the theater of not having an emotional connection uh to the ashes, but the the one thing when when we were always told when we played K, do not engage him, do not get him into the contest. This is the question I was asking KP I asked, did you did you say anything to Lara? Did you say anything to Coley or these guys? And it’s always a no no. And about you, it’s the same. There was only a few players they said, do not engage Lara, do not engage KP. And you you one player though, KP, you you look like you wanted the big moment. You you you didn’t fear. You know how some players stand away from the light and you say, “No, no, no. I I’ll walk into that light.” Did that always come natural? I I just think it was the situation that sort of found its way at the time. Uh, and I say that because situations you can’t predict. Situations just present themselves. And I mean, to be honest, I I look back at my career. I’ve got a little boy now who is 15 years of age and he’s cruising through and doing what he does and he’s neither a bad neither a bowler and he does what he what he what he wants. And and I sometimes look back at my career and and I just think I can’t believe the kind of stuff that I got up to and the kind of stuff that I did. Um because there were a lot of insecurities throughout my entire career because I was an off spinner who turned into a batter and I came from another country to another country. And so when you talk about these battles like it’s difficult for me to answer because I don’t know the answer. Yeah. Um or all I all I can say is that my upbringing was tough and that my upbringing was talk about battles. I mean the battles I had with my brothers um three three of my brothers um in the garden most afternoons growing up was more difficult than that walk to the wanderers. Um I mean those were ruthless battles. when you say grace before dinner and you got to keep your one eye open or else your your food’s gone. Um like it’s it was it was fiercely competitive in my house. Um and so I and I also I also had the personality of not making mountains out of mohills. Like I never looked at the greater picture. I never looked at the the the the everything else that was happening around me. I just tried to really focus and hone in on on being simple. um which I’m very good at being simple. Uh and so that that that was my process. My process was just keep it simple, stupid. Just really keep it simple. And I in your your book you said something about Mitchell Johnson. Like you said, grown men, I think it was in your book or you quoted saying grown men were scared to walk out. Yeah. They were petrified. Had you ever seen bowling like that before? You you’d face you’d face Brett Lee at his peak. You face Shaw Bactar. Why was Mitch different then? In all honesty, I didn’t find it difficult. Yeah, I’ll be honest. I didn’t find it difficult. Honestly, it was just short pitch bowling. He either bowls it short or he bowled it full. I didn’t feel intimidated. I didn’t I didn’t have any issues at all. Um the only time I had issues with Mitchell was in Perth when he got the ball to swing. Yeah. Um, and then he started to pitch at full and then he started to target the stumps. But a Mitchell Johnson, he was intimidating, very intimidating to the guys that couldn’t play the short ball and were intimidated by the short ball. Clearly the tail enders were and then unfortunately just at that time Jonathan Trot was going through a tough patch in his career. Um, and my buddy was was suffering. Uh, and obviously that was taken to a level which um, he couldn’t quite handle at the time. Um but I I mean there there is a story from uh Brisbane where uh I think Cook and Carbury they opened the batting and Mitchaw was running in and he was flying in and then Troy got out there and um I could see Troy was really really not enjoying it. But but I knew before he went out to bat that he was in in an well listen I knew weeks before that that Troy was in a bit of strife. And I think it’s well documented. He might have even spoken about it. Um I I don’t know. But um when Mitchell was bowling to to him and uh I think to Carbury and Cook Cook’s fine against the short stuff. Cook I don’t think Cook had any issues with the short stuff. Um I looked at this and I I was standing there sitting there at in the dressing room and I was going this looks awfully fast. And it’s way putting it. It looked um it looked it looked like something I probably couldn’t manage. So um I took Mushtuck Armad into the indoor nets at the gaba while it was all going and I just disappeared for 10 minutes. And I said to Mushy, I said, “Mushy, find me some tennis balls, wet some tennis balls, and you’re going to stand 10 yards away from me. and I want you in the next 3 or 4 minutes while I’m waiting to bat to kill try and kill me. Just literally try and put me out my misery. And he threw tennis balls that fast, wet tennis balls that fast at my head. Yeah. That I walked out to bat after trot got out and he bowled me a short one and I stood up on it and I just rode it into the leg side and I was like, “This is not even fast.” And I batted there. I batted there for a while. Um and I didn’t have any issues. I mean, I didn’t have any issues with mature jumps. Um, yes, it was fast. Yes, it was it it looked intimidating. But I think in terms of the preparation that I was doing in order to combat what he was doing, I needed to go and put myself under pressure in practice and and and I put myself under pressure. I mean, all Australian tours, I put myself under pressure training. I was I was trying to think of a time when you f you faced really quick bowling and obviously Hades has brought up one there. I’ll go back to the other end of your career, the Ash’s career, back to that first series, and I distinctly remember waiting up all until all hours here, engrossed by what was happening at the Oval on that last day. And Brett Lee, I reckon it was around just before or after lunch. He came in and bowled some of the quickest, most intimidating stuff to a TV viewer and you were out there riding it. Was that was that worse than Mitchell Johnson at the Gabra in 14? Yeah, because Binga Binger was Binga attacks the stumps more. Binga Binga actually bowls I mean Binga Binga did the line and lengthening um a little bit more consistently. Uh and also as I I always found a right-hander hit my stumps more whereas Mitchell as a left arm seamer I could sort of line him up. Anything outside my right eye I knew was missing my stumps. So there was less chance of a dismissal. Uh a and for me it was never ever about the fear of how fast the ball was. It was more about can you get me out? Where am I going to get out here? I wasn’t scared of being hit. Um I wasn’t scared of any the danger was taken away. Like I I wasn’t I wasn’t scared. I gave up when I was scared when I was standing in the big bash against Stan Lake running in at 130,000 mph. And for the first time in my career, I decided, let me just try and play a cut shot outside leg and blame the fact that the whole offside was up and I was like, uhuh, it’s time to go, boy. It’s time to go. So, huh. It’s interesting. I retired. He retired me exactly the same. I was at Oval. Billy Stanley. Billy Stanley. Exactly the same. I was standing out there and he finished playing test cricket. Say, you haven’t got that in the deeps in your belly where you want to stand. and he bowled a bumper and I went to hook it and sort of got me and the batter at the other end said two and I said a [ __ ] Next ball I went to pull and I trod on my stumps and I reckon I skipped off and Greg Shippard was coach and he you know how shippy gets you coming to blow up and I thought I better look like I’m disappointed. Yeah, I threw my helmet down. I’m thinking a [ __ ] sorry shippy. Oh mate, just got a good. He said how’d you do that? I said I must have got my guard wrong. What what he didn’t know I was done. Yeah. I said I’m not doing this [ __ ] anymore. I just didn’t want to. When you’re playing test cricket, you stand in front of I just didn’t want to stand in front of it anymore. One thing I know KP about this story that you’ve just told about the the Gavinets is that um I reckon Haden Jr. and Haden Jr. are going to be heading down in the nets with some wet tennis balls very soon to you’ve given him an idea. I reckon true Bradley mate. We’ll see. it. You got to you got to got to try and you got to try and do it tough, right? You had to try and do it tough. And when I was when I when I got scared, I knew that was me. Done. Done. And literally a month later, I put my boots up. I was like, listen, if you’re going to start backing away to square leg and blaming because the offside is up and you just like, no, no, no, no, dude. That’s not how you play. Like, just go and play golf. Yeah. Who’s going to do it tough this Ashes? Who’s who’s going to stand in front of the Aussies or from the Aussies? Who’s going to stand in front of Wooden Archer? Yeah, the B I think it all comes down to fitness. There’s a lot of chat about Cummins. Um, obviously the England fast bowlers, they get rotated. Um, is Stoke’s going to be fit the whole series. Be a good It’ll be a great series. Be a very, very good series. Um, if all the guys stay fit. I don’t know what the status on Cummins is. You never quite know, do you? No one really gives around too much detail. Um, but you want you want to see the best guys up. You want to see the guest best guys playing. Um, because you want to see a great series. That’s what you want to see. Uh, you don’t want to see replacements coming in who people have never heard of. Test cricket deserves to have the best players playing on the biggest stage. So, I just hope that they’re all fit. They’re all firing um and the guys are treated um in Australia to good to good sessions of play. Yeah, I’m sure we will be. Uh with how the England dressing room is at the moment, you can speak at previous experiences where you’re all on the same page and then there was other occasions there that famously obviously and the media took it in certain directions that they weren’t on the same page. Yeah. this current group look like they’re all on the same page and they’re singing from the same Baz Ball Him book. Does that count? Does that help? Uh I think I think it does. Uh it most well it most certainly does if you’re 100% on the same uh same page. Yes. Uh and it looks like it looks like they are. Um it does it looks like they back themselves. It looks like they they um they they do um what Baz wants, they do what Stokes wants. I think that relationship between Stokes and McCullum is a very very strong one. Uh I think Rob Key also has quite a big role to play within that dynamic. So I think the three of them in charge are tight, which you need to be. Um, and they’ve been put under pressure on a few occasions. Um, and no doubt that there’s going to be a lot riding on an Ashes series. This Ashes series in particular down under is going to be a big one for all of them because uh the the result is magnified uh because it’s Ash’s cricket. Um, there will be a lot of chat going into the series from former players, current players. I already see actually I checked social media this morning just before I jumped on here. I see that there’s already conversations happening between former players, etc. Um, but they look they look quite they look quite tight. Uh, and I think to start off an Ashes series, you need to have that unity in the dressing room. So yeah, I I think they are uh but time will tell. Listen, time Australian cricket can tear the minor minor little cuts and bruises into into big wounds. Um so time will tell over the next couple of months. And one of your your great loves KP is 2020 cricket. You commentate all around the world. You you you’re off to South Africa um to to commentate on that. Are we in danger test cricket of franchise cricket? We see uh Kamo and Head, they’ve had what we think at $10 million proposals to to give um give this form away. Are we in danger of franchise cricket taking over? Is it a bad thing? Uh I I I don’t I I think in what do they call it? The big three. I think the big three have a responsibility to try their hardest to keep it alive, but I don’t see it staying alive if I’m honest. I don’t um and it’s hard. I mean, it’s horrendous to say it because that was my favorite um for the game. I was lucky enough to play over a hundred of them and you know that that’s the greatest test, but there’s too much cash involved now. Uh and there’s not many guys that if they’re going to be offered $10 million, they’re going to say no. Um uh maybe after the ashes with Cummins got a back injury now he if he was offered this in February he might have gone m boys John Rom did it in golf Dustin Johnson Brooks Kepka it is what it is we just have to understand that these guys are all businesses every single player is a business and I’ve said it for a number of years um and been quite unpopular in in saying it but I don’t mind saying it. These guys are there to make money. Um, if Cummins doesn’t play again and his back’s gone, you guys know, we all know, no one’s offering you $10 million when you’re 41 years of age. No. Uh, so my um my advice to Cumins and to head would be to get through the ashes, postpone the discussions till after the ashes and then have a rethink about it. Um, because this ain’t going away. and people the purists I’m a purist but unfortunately I’m also a realist and these discussions are not going to go away I know the money in cricket I’ve seen the money in cricket I’m in discussions around all of that kind of thing I’ve just been part of a huge transaction here in the UK so I know what’s happening in the world of cricket I know what’s happening in in in franchise cricket and these guys have P&Ls um and they’ve got brands and um these are emotional acquisitions by very powerful figures and so it’s not going away and it’s going to be to the detriment of test match cricket because the kids won’t watch it either. You go to Lords I’ve done Lords test matches and you go around Lords don’t have a look how many kids are watching a test match live. Yeah. Less than 2% of the crowd at Lords are watching a game. go to the 100 which I hope one day will be T20 cricket. You go to that, it’s full of kids and that’s the next generation, right? That’s where the digital that’s where your digital content sits. This is a digital piece of piece of content. This this isn’t linear television. These guys are all over digital numbers. You’re after digital numbers. I’m launching something in the next few weeks which is digital. um like everyone’s after the digital craze and the digital craze isn’t the guys that go and sit there and fall asleep at lunchtime with seven red wines. That’s not where that’s not where um the world is going. Yeah. Can you see can you see the calendar then thrown up a bit like you look at other sports like football there’s windows where it’s defined windows where you’re not having for instance no one wants to see South Africa C send a South Africa D even to a test series in New Zealand no one wins out of that because you guys like the I say you guys because you’re involved in the South African thing because you go down there and commentate it and across it the T20 South African cricket needs to pay for itself. Basically, it’s a great thing. So, can you see like five? Yeah, this is franchise cricket windows and everything else you can fit around that. I don’t know how far that FTP goes now. I don’t I don’t know where the FTP sets. That’s the future tours program. I don’t know how far that goes. Uh but I’m sure there are discussions um that are happening just around proposed schedules. Um uh and there’s also countries that want to get into cricket as well. Saudi Arabia wants to get into cricket. Um I was there last two weeks ago and I know what’s happening in in in the kingdom. Um so there’s a there’s a lot of things that are earmarked in the calendar at the moment. Test cricket is one band one arm band off and struggling to keep afloat. There’s only a few countries that are keeping it afloat. I think Brian Lara was quoted recently saying that players are wanting to play for the West Indies at the moment only to get themselves into the bright lights to get um to get into an IPL franchise and so they’re treating international cricket like an audition to get themselves into into franchise cricket and I think he was quoted as saying that’s incredibly sad but that’s just the nature of the beast at the moment. So there are major issues with minor nations and I say minor nations because I classify the major the major nations as the one that still sort of prioritize test match cricket but at the end of the day sport is a money game. You brought up football. It’s a money game. Private ownership and that’s the way that it’s going. And as difficult as it is to to talk about it and to say it and the purists will hate me saying it unfortunately they’re going to have to accept it. And I think they are starting to accept it, especially now with with the UK going private in in franchising all of their teams. It’s interesting you talk about that KP and I know you’ve um you’ve been involved a lot of privatization especially over in the 100. You we’ve seen South Africa, UK, UAE. Does it work for Big Bash do you think? I don’t know why Australia hasn’t done it. I mean I was part of the Melbourne Stars when Eddie Maguire had it. Uh and um uh Cricket Victoria sort of didn’t govern they sort of governed the Stars. They didn’t govern the Stars, but the Renegades I think that I think Cricket Victoria I mean you can correct me if I’m wrong. I think Cricket Victoria had more of a say on the Renegades than they did with Eddie at at the Stars. Yeah. Um but I don’t understand how Australia hasn’t done it. Um I mean why wouldn’t I I don’t understand what the con is. I I understand what the pros are. I don’t understand what the con con is now. You could get best players. You could rival you could rival um other tournaments. Uh the time zone is not bad because obviously you have to fit it into the Indian the Indian time zone. So this time zone is not horrendous. Um I mean South Africa’s found a sweet spot. We start I think at 5:30 in the afternoon. So we hitting around 8 8:30. We’re almost sitting prime time Indian standard time for for the tournament. Uh but the Aussies, you guys have a you have a you have a good time for it and I don’t understand why you haven’t done what um what everybody else has done. I don’t know the reasons. I mean you guys might know the reasons. I I I get the sense not knowing what happens in boardrooms in cricket is that it’s it’s it’s the family farm and they they’re really hesitant to sell off the parts of the family farm. That’s how Australian cricket values itself. So it’s a very traditional way of thinking but I think I’m with you and anyone right minded and has seen what the IPL has done over in England uh over in India it’s it’s a no-brainer it is going to happen it’s just a question of when and how exactly the breakdown of the percentages of what they sell and the other thing we we selling it to private you got to sell at the top of the market like we we need we we need our best players playing if you want to sell um to to India to Saudi We we need our best players playing. We we need the product to as you see in South Africa the reason that’s done so well yes the money’s come in but if you get take that all aside the best players are playing and that’s what we need to look at. The problem is with a big bash and I mean we finished at a time and I know I’ve spoken to a lot of the other players that were the um um the the overseas players at the time and we all quit on Australian cricket when you guys made your tournament too long. Yeah. Um like I I I finished when I finished but but I played at a time when the tournament was a month like 3 weeks to a month. I remember coming out pre Christmas playing I think on the 18th and the 22nd of December. Then I caught that flight the night uh back to London. I did Christmas at home and then I flew back I think Boxing Day and I caught the 20 I might have caught the game on the 29th and then sometimes we played New Year’s Eve. So I I think I missed maybe one one show if it was a 26 or 27 game that the Stars had. But also the tournament finished cracky memory serves me correct. 26 27 somewhere around there. January. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean I’ve been seeing the big bash over the last few years and every time you turn the bloody TV on over Christmas and New Year and February there’s a big bash going on, right? And so clearly they’re flogging a product. And the reason why you flog a product is because you want to sell it more, right? And you sell it for the for the cash. So why not make the cash by making it private, condensing the format, getting the best players, finding a a place in the calendar, and making it work. We’ll wait and see with that. We’ll wait and see. It’s it’s it’s around the corner. It’s absolutely around the corner. Well, speaking of that, I I I know I’m just going to go off the beaten track a little bit. You you we’ve flogged that enough. The big bash. You I know you love your golf and we’re talking about Oh, this is a good one. Yeah. So, you’re talking about your cash. Who Who do you want to take it off? Ponting, Callus, Smith, or the King? If you’re on the golf course, ask Ponting who won our last outing. Maybe he can answer it. Maybe he can come on your podcast and ask him who won the last outing. And I don’t even think he paid me. I think he still owes me some cash. Oh, double sledge. That’s even better. Sir Ricky, good luck getting into Tasmania next time you’re down here, KP. Well, I couldn’t afford to. He hasn’t paid me what he owes me. Who wins the long drive contest? Cuz you can hit a ball. Glenn Maxwell can hit a ball. Ricky’s just talent. No, you know, you know the the they say Zack Crawley is a like a serious golfer. Yeah, like a serious serious golfer. He hits a long ball. He’s a really good golfer. Um that’s what I’ve heard. I’ve not played with Zack, but I’ve heard that he’s a proper proper golfer. Is he a better golfer? Is he is his golf better than his memory? because he seems to think that we started this conversation about moral victories when he’s talking to the Times last week and he said that yeah they seem to be obsessed by moral victories down there in Australia. It’s like hang on a minute. It was Harry Brookke that said it after a test match in 2023. This is what an Ashes series brings. It brings out the worst in us as you know Kevin like it’s like hang on a minute who’s like moral victories you you started it. So yeah, a bit of Trumpism coming in there from Zachie Boy. Yeah, I listen that that’s the the the the pre- Ashes nonsense. Go and have it with somebody else. I I really don’t want to wake up to wake up tomorrow morning or wake up whenever you release this going light up. I’m live in a I live in a different world, boys. Give us a give us a good story. That [ __ ] that that [ __ ] I used to get involved in. I’ve got absolutely no interest in waking up and seeing the Simple Morning Herald smash me for something I’ve said on your podcast. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. We’ll call Tom decent now and let him know that you didn’t say anything. Um, what about Had tells the great stories that some of his best stories he tells is that the moments of camaraderie and enjoyment you get out of playing cricket. Is this what you get in for in the first place? You you you test yourself and then you enjoy yourself with other people in the same uniform who have tested themselves and success tells for instance this great story at the SCG. After a while they they bang the the floor on the SCG that means open the seller up boys underneath the dressing rooms. Let’s get into it. Those moments those great moments that you shared in an England dressing room. What’s what’s one or two that that really stand out for you that you remember to this day and it brings a smile to your face? 2005 is we we had a two a 20 year 20 year reunion. Can you believe it? Um uh for the Ashes. We had a dinner just this week and just the boys reminiscing about um uh that that great Australian series uh and Ashes series. I mean you guys had a team that was A-list in any time that cricket’s ever been played. I mean you guys were you guys were just full on A-list. And I was speaking to Ashley Jiles about that final afternoon batting and um we were just talking about it. Um when we batted for 3 hours there uh you guys still needed to chase the total um and we had got the run rate up to 9 to 10 to 11 and we kept coming in between overs and like tapping each other. We don’t have enough. We don’t have enough. We don’t have enough because we were looking around the field and seeing Ponting Langanger Hayden. I mean we were just looking around just seeing Hollywood. Um and so that series there when you look back at it and the celebrations that followed were I think just purely based on emotion. Um both teams had given it absolutely everything for 7 weeks. 7 weeks of complete and utter carnage sitting next to Simon Jones the final day. Well I sat next to him all all series I think Simon one of my real good buddies. Um, and we looked out the window at where was it? At Old Trafford, and we um we heard the guy come over, uh, the announcer come over just as we were finishing warm-up, just as we we’d got into the rooms. And he said, “Old Trafford is now full.” So, anybody outside the gates of Old Trafford, you won’t be allowed in. Old Trafford is now full. And I’m not so sure how many times that’s ever been heard uh around a cricket ground um in this country uh or in any country actually when pre-warmup the the guy uh they call him the voice of God that comes over the tunnel and just says the cricket ground is now full. No one else will be allowed back allowed into the stadium. Uh it was a it was a crazy series. And so when you ask the question about celebrations and that that that time um when I think it was Billy Bowen when they lifted the bales off at the oval that afternoon and the and the relief um and just the the the pure joy that we embraced as a team just as we sit sat in that dressing room. You could just see shoulders just drop eventually because everyone was just high on on such high alert for seven weeks and leading into that final day. It was I mean it would the intensity was real and it was felt in the hotel um on the way to a ground away from the ground in between test matches obviously throughout the day every time you walked uh down to the ground through the public. So, I’d say that that for me was was a pretty pretty intense time and and and also just the relief and the joy that I’ve talked about at the end. Um just jogs and and brings back the most oh man the most awesome memories and and I answer that question now because it’s something that we discussed on Tuesday night last week. I think it was Tuesday or Wednesday night when a load of us were doing something as a reunion for the for the for the series. It really was amazing. But but it’s also thanks to the Australian team for for the battle. Uh I mean it was it was I mean that battle was real and there was so many moments poning abusing Duncan Fletcher when Pratt ran him out. Like just the visuals of that of him coming off the field just giving Duncan the biggest spray reunion. Huh? Was Pratt at the reunion? That’s a good way of getting Ricky back for not paying you. I think he missed the invite. Either that or he couldn’t make us. It’s funny you actually we got asked that is Pratt here. Um McGrath stepping on a ball. Uh Simon Jones I think I mean what a what a hero that guy was. Yeah. I think he got 22 wickets at 21. And one of my one of the things I hated so much in my career was was his injuries. Uh and carrying him off to India just after that series trying to get him back. He went right knee, right ankle, left knee, left ankle, and that was him. Uh, one of the greatest bloss ever in a dressing room. One of the one of the great fast he would have been one of the greatest fast bowlers, that guy. If he had stayed fit. Um, I mean, you guys watched him. Uh, you I think as you might have played against him. What a what a guy. If you played with him, you would have realized what an amazing man. Uh, so there was there were just so many moments in in that series. Australia celebrating a draw for the first time and I don’t know when. Um I mean Giles and Hogard batting out at Trent Bridge that afternoon when when the King and and and Binger put us under all sorts of pressure. [ __ ] I mean yeah it just I mean Warie’s numbers as well. I mean the dude got what 30 40 wickets um 200 300 runs. Caught everything except one. Uh, what a guy, man. What a guy. What a series. I I hopefully that answers your question cuz I don’t think anything can get better. They try to say that India versus England this summer when 25 days is the greatest series that’s ever been played. I’m telling you now, if I ask most people who got hundreds in that series that probably now go back to 2005 and almost the entire cricketing population can tell you who got hundreds on what day, at what time, etc., etc. So, no one can even compare that series to anything else. And I think I hope for you guys agree. I I can’t disagree even though we were watching it in the other time zone, but it was it was one of those rare things that cuz we cop it down here. Our sports people who love sport in a worldly nature, time zone wise, we just cop it. It is disgraceful. Whatever big event, Olympics, World Cups, Ashley Series, whatever. But that one, get the golf Yeah, you get the golf, you get tour. Yeah. Um, but 2019 as well, I I was as almost as engrossed about that. I don’t had you were in the dressing room for both of those series, but there that’s just Oh, that that dude stokes at um Headingley did all right, but that that was his the drawn series. Steve Smith got hit in the head when he was just scoring runs for fun and everything like that. But that that but this is back to the point about the the balance between making sure that these moments are protected but also living in the new age ads about you got to make sure that we’re still talking about these types of series in 40 years time but being a realist as Kevin says about okay well the world’s opening up a bit more to different things and different ways of taking in content. Yeah, we are. But 2005 was I think was special for obviously the cricket but Ashes was sort of floating a bit that that that what what we liked about it. It was a bloody contest. It it was some of the you talk about um some of the best players ever to put an Australian cap on. But England had exactly the same. Um they had some generational players there. They had generational bowling attack. Um and the theater behind the whole country everywhere you went someone had something about and and that’s what makes the the contest so great is everyone gets on board. There’s an emotional attachment people find to the team and especially this time and let’s hope KP we we’re talking about this same Ashes series um in a couple of months. I I I think it’s going to be a cracker. But thank you. It’s been an absolute pleasure to to have you on. I’m still in shock that you’re coaching. I’ll get my head around that very very shortly, but you do have a lot to offer the game. So, and I know having a bit to do with Ash and the boys that uh they do enjoy your company. Yeah, he’s a beauty. Hey, who’s that in the background? Is that Binger in the background bowling? Who’s that supposed to be? Is that Mitch? His arms to his arms too straight. Who is it? You know, I I think it’s Ryan Harris. Hey, best Australian bowler I ever faced. Rhino. Best Australian bowler I ever faced. Best better than McGra. Better than anyone. What made him so difficult to deal with? Oh man, he hit the ball that hard and he was just he had a he he he had two types of bouncers. Um what a guy. What a competitor as well. Like I mean Australians are great competitors, but he was the best I ever faced. Uh obviously Warney Warn was in in the spinning in the spinning world, but in terms of fast bowlers, that guy was the best I ever faced. Always he was always on, always attacking the stumps. He reverse swung the ball um both ways. He bowled good heat. He hit the ball hard. And um if he wanted to tell you he was there, he could tell you very quickly with a quick little morning, good afternoon, how are you? Yeah, he was a proper bowler. What does he do, by the way? Well, he’s coaching. Yeah, he’s coaching South Australia. Very well. First ever shield they’ve won in 20 years. He um Amazing. Yeah, he’s going well, right? Amazing. Before we let you go, we You have to give a prediction. Everyone has to give a prediction about the Ashes. I promise. It’s hard. Listen, it’s I think it’s hard for England. It’s hard for England to win in Australia. very hard. Um, so can they can like win a whole series? I think can they win a test match? I think they can the way that they play they can win a test match if everything falls into place for sure, but very hard to actually win a series. So I I’ll have Australia up, but um I think it might be it might be it might be tightly contested. Kevin Peterson, really appreciate your time on Willow Talk and all the best for what’s around the corner. Bit happening in cricket. Cheers mate. so much. Thanks, boys. Thanks, KP. Yeah, thanks for watching the Willow Talk podcast on YouTube. 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