Earn Your Edge Podcast Ep. 88 (Featuring Xander Schauffele)

Join us as we welcome Xander Schauffele back to Earn Your Edge! From swing coaches to Ryder Cups and Major Championships, a lot has changed for Xander from when we last had him on in January of 2020 (Ep/056) to now. He breaks it all down, offers great insight into his pursuit of success, and what he is striving for in the future.

[Music] Welcome back to the Earnards podcast. I’m Corey Lumbberg from Alers’s Performance. Thank you very much for joining us again. We have really enjoyed the feedback from our first episode back with Levig Oberg. It’s great to be back in the swing of these interviews and to be releasing episodes regularly again. If you haven’t listened to that first one back, go back and check it out. We’ve also heard from a lot of you that you’re enjoying the new format with Cam and I sharing our key takeaways at the end. So stay tuned for that debrief after this conversation. But first, we want to introduce our second guest back and it’s another big one. It’s one of our favorite guys on tour, Xander Schoffley. Uh this is actually a return for Xander. Hopefully many of you will remember the first time that he was on. Uh we had him on about 5 years ago and a lot has changed for him since then. He’s now a major champion, an Olympic gold medalist, uh, and continues to be one of the most consistent and respected players on tour. So, please enjoy that conversation. Before we jump into it, a quick word from our partner, Swing You by Golf Genius. And have you ever wondered what it would be like to have the same tools at your disposal that a PGA Tour player does? Tour players have always had access to resources that most golfers just don’t until now. Swing gives amateur golfers their own encourse caddy, strokes gain data coach, and personalized practice planner. Whether you’re a 30 handicap beginner or you’re a scratch player, you’ll get tailored insights on how to warm up, how to play, and practice based on your strengths and weaknesses. It’s a really cool tool that we recommend that all listeners check out. You can try SwingU Pro for just 50 bucks with promo code edge to get 50% off your first year. That’s promo code edge at swingywu.com/upgrade. Now to the conversation with Xander Schoffley. Stay tuned until the end where Cam and I break down the biggest uh most important takeaways in our debrief. Enjoy. Um it’s been a long time since uh we just we had you on the pod. It was the what end of 2019, Cory. Yeah, a lot’s happened since then. A lot has happened and much many many threads that we want to pull on. But um I thought a good place to start just as a scene setter is the the move from Southern California to Florida. When considering making that move then ultimately making that move, was there something you were looking for a group to hang with or play against, etc.? Yeah. Uh thanks for having me. Good to see you guys. Like you said, spent some time. So I’ve actually moved twice since since we’ve last spoken. Um I was in was in Las Vegas, Nevada for a good at least two years. couldn’t take that sort of heat too well and it was still technically west coast. So, um got out of California after I spoke to you guys and then yeah, we’ve been here for almost two years now. Yeah, it’s been uh it’s been cool. There are a lot of golfers here and so the weekend the weekend game against you know uh younger tour pros or or college kids that I used to play with against in San Diego is is now a little different. the likes of, you know, Ricky, Pat, JT, Gary Woodland, Senson, and then, you know, I see a bunch of live guys out there as well with Meato, Walko, um, Peter Uline, Matt Wolf. What’s the range right now? Uh, Medalist, The Grove, and was nice enough to give me a spot at his place, Panther Nationals. So, a lot of different places to play golf and um it was important for me to to kind of start to learn how to chip off of some grain. So, that was other than making my life easier, that was another attraction for me coming to Florida. Yeah. Is that something that you felt like you did struggle with chipping off grain? Because I hear that a lot from kids from the southern kale area. Yeah, for sure. I’m sure I’m sure you see it all the time. just uh bent I grew off you know TPC Scottsdale except a little lusher almost you know that sort of grass and uh into soft greens as well. So that makes for relatively easy, you know, chipping conditions and, you know, you can kind of have three or four different techniques I feel like off Bermuda. Um, one, you have to be a lot more commit committed and it’s just a very different technique, a lot steeper, I feel like, leading edge, ball first, that kind of thing. Stuff I stuff I never saw. All all that stuff you got in Dallas. Okay. Last time we talked and I went and relisted to our episode and it was just so good, man. like there was so much like openness and wisdom from you and we talked a lot about your dad and we talked about kind of your origin story and just how pivotal he was. And so since then though there there’s been a uh transition to working with Chris and I’m curious uh if there was a particular moment or like a realization that you had that made you feel like an outside perspective was needed and and what led to that decision to start working with Chris a little bit. Yeah, it was I don’t know. I can’t remember what we covered in in the last podcast, but my my dad’s always he’s you know, he’s worn a ton of different hats and yeah, um he’s 60 now. You know, he was he was at a different stage when we spoke, you know, five fiveish years ago. And uh you know, he still helps me. He still has a couple hats on, Dad being one of them. But he always told me when I was young that I don’t know how far I’m going to take you. I don’t know how long we can work together. you know, you have certain needs and desires and, you know, if I can’t fulfill them, I’d be happy to sort of pass pass you along to whoever we think is is best fit. So, Chris was someone my buddy actually sought out in Dallas, probably 13 years ago, 12, maybe 11, 11 to 13 years ago. And that was sort of the first time I spoke to him just because my buddy would be there and we’d FaceTime and, you know, I kind of said what’s up and, you know, being being sort of a up and cominging pro. So that was that that was like the first time I ever got the introduction to him. Um and it was someone that my you know my dad always thought would would be a good fit. just, you know, we we we did that golf channel thing with him and sort of got to know him a little bit better there. And then, you know, I always got to talk to my friend, you know, about Chris and kind of what he teaches and it it it seemed to be a good fit. And so, we kind of kind of went all in on it and changed up a few things uh some some big things in my swing, I’d say, and they seem to be paying, you know, pay paying off pretty quickly. Can we dig into that? you’re talking with two um instructors, coaches, fellow golf geeks, and our audience is very very sophisticated in terms of like they’re either on the path or they’re coaches like us. So, um were there a couple of things that you had identified in advance of getting together with Chris and then Chris like echoed that sentiment and said these things need to change and what are they or what materialized out of those first few meetings that then transformed um some of your capacities? Yeah, he just uh you know I I coming out of COVID I my I played a ton of golf and didn’t really practice that much being in San Diego. Um played pretty well coming out but it was very it became very like get the ball in the fairway type golf and scoring golf which was great. Uh but as things started to progress towards hitting the ball a little bit higher for some majors and things of that nature, I felt like I sort of lost some of my game. And whenever I’d try to execute certain shots, my, you know, I’d start my game would go array and, you know, I’d be able to compete and, you know, finish in the top 10 or 15 of that nature, but never really got the grips and and felt confident on Sundays when I needed to sort of execute a shot. So Chris sat with my dad or, you know, talked to my dad now that he’s in Hawaii all the time. He spoke to him on the phone for for a bit. You know, he spoke to Austin, he spoke to my trainer Mars, he spoke to or sorry, my physio Mars, my trainer David. He kind of got the got the wraps of everything. He wanted video from me for as long as as far back as I had. I only had you know 2017 on my phone is sort of the latest video or oldest video I had. So went back and you know I sent him what would would have been I don’t know 100 swing videos and he you know of course us golfers are sick as you both know. I could tell him exactly how I was hitting it in 2018 at you know the WGC you’re in in Dubai. Very specific feels right. Yeah, exactly. What I was feeling, what I thought. He was just trying to get inside my mind without even asking questions. So, went through that whole thing and then kind of came up with a plan to get me back on track to sort of when I was hitting it really well, I was doing X and when I wasn’t, I was doing Y. And, uh, we sort of attacked that. So, shoulders got a little bit flat. Um, club was getting laid off. It was hard for me to deliver it, you know, kind of underneath and out. uh back injury was a concern of mine, having to sort of tip back to get the club underneath from a laid-off position. All those things were sort of concerns that I brought to him and um he he he addressed it right away. Hey, obviously you’ve got trust in Chris because he’s got a track record. You chose him for a reason because you did trust him. But I mean at that time you’re kind of a top 10 machine in majors and it’s not like it’s not like uh you were coming from a place where you were lost or there was really poor ball striking. What’s the costbenefit analysis with Chris look like where you’re like hey look I’m going to make this change. I’m going to commit to this change. How are you weighing the pros and cons of going down that road just because there’s other people that are listening that maybe have similar, you know, when when they’re buying into something that their coach is telling them, they need something pretty compelling. What did that process look like for you and Chris? Yeah, it was a lot of trust. It was uh it it was a I mean just like any kid going to a coach would know when you kind of do something for me I get giddy when you know I can kind of pull off a couple shots and then I’ll quickly revert back to whatever I was doing before and you know does that feel like natural enough to you and so looking back to some swings from like 17 or 18 um when I was playing you know pretty well like like you said though you know I managed to you know I managed my game pretty well throughout my career and 17 18 though the club sat at a much more you online position up top. And yeah, sure, I had a little bit got up on my right toe and had some side bend through the ball, but for the most part, like the club was being delivered from a pretty good position. And as my game as I got older, you know, everything the line started getting a little bit sloppier and I was kind of tossing the head head out at the ball. Um, kind of hitting down on it more across to the left. Wasn’t able to hit a draw very comfortably unless it was off my right foot. So, it it wasn’t like I I’ve never done it before. just the way he attacked it and addressed it was it felt invasive at first, but as soon as I kind of got the hang of it, I I started to hit some decent shots. And for for me, I can be kind of sick in the head where I will just fully commit to something even if it’s, you know, my example from last year would be like Pebble Beach. I went full 10 cup. You know, it’s like wind was blowing 25 off the left on 18. And Chris sent me like the crying emoji when I made a nine on the hole because I was like, I’m going to hit I’m going to get this club across at the top and hit this fade off this ocean and hit a freaking 79 into the green. And I like to pull three into the water club. And I was like, I’m not leaving this tea box until I pull this shot off. And of course, the tournament got cancelceled and I was all sad sitting there like, I just made a million. Can I can I just add one thing in there or ask another thing? That was something you spoke to in our first conversation that your dad instilled in you this commitment to see a swing feel through until it reveals the true ball flight and so so maybe that’s a cornerstone of who you are. Is there any truth to that? Yeah, I just you know I refer that was my reference to being sick in the head. It’s uh it could pay it could pay off at times, but I was very much in that experimental phase, you know, with Chris early on and, you know, I was like, if I’m going to commit to this, I’m I’m going to I’m going to go all in. And I’m going really see if this is going to make a difference. So, you I was hitting a bunch of good shots and I figured this is as tough as it gets. You know, I haven’t been able to hit a fade. Typically, when the club gets way across, it’s like you’re gonna try and hit a draw from there and like, you know, here here we go. That’s one of the topics I really wanted to talk about. But I was eager to get into that because, you know, Rory had made some swing changes this fall and he talked about how I went into a net and I just hit balls into a net. I like completely removed the immediate like ball fight changes and just worked on the movement. We talked to Levig a couple weeks ago. He said something really really similar. So speaking to our audience, something that will really serve the players that are listening to this conversation. Can you speak a little bit to like just the approach that you have of or do you completely are you able to completely remove yourself from those immediate ball fight like what’s happening right away? I think there’s this misconception that’s like hey I didn’t lesson I should be able to do it in a tournament right away. How are you thinking through that in the mindset to to approach maybe what could be a little bit more of a long-term process? Yeah, I think being it’s such a tricky thing when you talk about, you know, like when you’re trying to coach someone, you know, I feel depending on how invasive you’re trying to be and depending on how anxious the individual player is, I guess, or how results based, I mean, we all are results based and, you know, we hang our hat on sort of what we’ve done and it was a sort of not out of body, but a level of commitment that, you know, I hadn’t touched a bon in a while where, you know, my dad would tell me to aim OB and curve it off of it and if you hit hit OB. You hit it OB. And and I’m sitting there. I’m like, well, I don’t want to hit there. There there’s like an interesting realm where you kind of have to sit and and and really sort of decide what you’re going to do before the round even starts for at least, you know, call it five to 10 tournaments. And, you know, that could be an entire year if you’re a junior or a college player or, you know, half a season if you’re a pro. So, I I just sort of committed to this. I was doing it well in practice. And to me, I was like, I I I need to get this down before the majors is what I said to myself. And there’s no better way to practice at the biggest stage other than sorry, practicing at the biggest stage. So, I I sort of had this talk with myself, was okay with the result regardless of what it was going to be, and kind of went in with as clear as I had trying to overdo it on the course. Um, you know, Cam, you see, I see Jordan. You know, I was I’ve been sitting at home hurt. You know, I’ve watched Jordan, you know, in in Phoenix, and I’m not watching too much golf, but, you know, I go you go through phases of of of being in a weird place when you’re hurt, but, you know, whenever I need the tickle, you know, I watched Jordan out there doing some some crazy rehearsals to some, but you know, it put him in a nice place and, you know, he has that sickness to him, too, where he’s going to fully commit through it. I saw it on Yeah, you you have to overemphasize to find optimal. Speaking of which, you mentioned um uh coming out of COVID after playing a lot of golf during COVID, you were playing a lot and practicing less and um I’m curious to understand that balance of block practice and what sort of feedback mechanisms you used inside of practice when Chris wasn’t around to tell you you were getting close. So, number one, volume and number two, what were you using for feedback? A lot of a lot of swing. I just would send them his way and not even think not even think about it. I’ve never taken so many videos in my life. My dad was so against videos. So the the the overall is really the overhaul was really funny. So I had a tripod and I would try and you know get the you know decent alignment and send it his way and he’d have a have a peek at the shape of how things were looking. And you know, we we we met up. We had enough touching points throughout the year where we’d sit in Florida or, you know, work work on something for, you know, a few weeks and then I’d be off on my own and send him, you know, at least six videos a day. And I would just and he was like, “Send him as many as you would like.” And so I was like shameless. I just sent him a ton. And he killed because I was like, “I don’t I can’t have this thing get out of control, you know? I need someone to babysit me through this process.” And so he he he babysat me through a lot of it. What about the rep count? You did get spend a hitting session and hit how many? A lot a lot more balls than actually rounds played. I’d say I since I’ve been in Florida, I definitely found myself practicing a lot, especially with the swing change with with Chris or swing change is a little dramatic, but adjustment I should say. The speed part. Was that not part of I haven’t heard you mention speed at all as we’ve been talking about the swing changes for 10 minutes here and I thought that something that we’d hear about and I I coach Harry Higs he won’t mind me saying this but he walked into my bay one time and he said find out what Xander did. That was his that was his question to me is like find out whatever the hell Xander did and I think so this is me doing it now like a year after he asked me that. But it’s like how much of that was swing change is how much of that is stuff that you were doing in the gym? Harry deserves better. Miss that guy. Yeah, it was. So, David David Sunberg is a trainer that Pat introduced working with Alex Nor and Pat for for quite some time. And it was it was another thing I needed to commit to where, you know, I was looking at all the best guys. They were in and out of the gym. I was more of a just a true golfer like across the board at heart. you know, if I needed to do something, I would just practice more. You know, if I needed to hit it further, I would just try and swing harder. Like, and I never really committed everything, I should say. Um, at least not in the smartest way. And so, I hired David pretty much the same or similar time as as Chris. And, you know, quickly he just started from from ground zero, like basic movement patterns, what I can, can’t do, you know, normal screening and and we kind of got into it. Once you thought I earned the right to start lifting weights, you start lifting weights. And it was the first time ever I was lifting weights at a tournament. You know, I’d always see, you know, some of the bigger boys on tour lifting pretty heavy, you know, in the in the trailer or at a local gym or something. And I told myself, you know, I need this guy to hold my hand just like Chris had to hold my hand. I needed David hold my hand through this whole process so I don’t get hurt. So, it was a pretty serious commitment of an offseason and then through the season as well. I was so weak in certain areas that he’s like, “We can easily get you stronger throughout the season, you know, on a 10% clip if we just stay consistent.” And he’s like, “I’ll be I’ll be with you every step of the way.” So, hired him and just a combination. It’s It’s really hard for me to give who credit, but you know, of course, the club moving a little bit better, you know, not kind of coming down and across it. Um, you can swing harder maybe pulling down and across it, but it’s not as optimal because you can’t hit up on it, up and out at it, especially with drivers. So, the club getting a little bit more across or online, I should say, being delivered a little bit more like underneath and then kind of out at the ball. Um, you know, I went from hitting down two or three to now being pretty level where I can hit up on it without thinking a whole lot. And then just increasing just overall strength, I’d say. Um, nothing nothing even really too golf specific, but just overall strength was those two factors. Harry, I’m sorry to tell you, Harry, but it’s kind of it. I just started working out and lifting more weights. Let me let me ask a question for Harry because the first question he’s gonna ask Cory is what does a lifting heavy look like and what do those strength gains look like? So can you give us some data points on what you’re deadlifting now an hour? Yeah, it was more like just you know deadlifts, bench press. Um, I mean like almost like felt like gym or beach beachy type, you know, just like my lower body was always strong strong just from being golfer maybe genetics from my dad, but relative to how weak my upper body was. It just the matchup wasn’t there. And you know, you can put a lot of force in the handle if you’re kind of strong enough. And you know, I started to feel like just overall strength just from doing basic stuff started to pay some dividends. And of course, not losing him holding my hand, not losing any form or mobility um was a really big deal. But you don’t have kittyami legs yet, do you? No, I don’t think I don’t think I’ll ever have quadzilla legs. What does the week look like at a tournament now compared to what it would have looked like before? Like I think that’s an interesting point. It’s like when you’re actually doing the lifting relative to, you know, going into play and and what time the round is and are you going before after both? What does it look like on tournament week? Yeah, so you know, once once once a week is over, we always pile in pile in the next week. So, if I’m feeling up for it, you know, Monday would be pretty much a day off and we try to do one of the heavier lifts in the week, usually legs or a mix between the upper body and lower body. And then, um, Wednesday would be another day and then Saturday would be day. So, after a round on Saturday, instead of me going to the range, I would go lift weights. Um, and you know, it would taper off. It wouldn’t be a lot heavier than what I what I’ve done before. before, you know, I’ve never like sat a term and bench pressed, you know what I mean? It’s like just something I never even thought of. But, you know, and that’s not for everyone. For me, it was just I was so just weak. Like it was something that helped me and made me feel strong. So, David kind of had to find something that we have in the trailer that we have at home. Kind of keep the point similar. You know, if you’re doing some crazy stuff on a machine, then you go like to a tournament and you’re at like an LA Fitness or YMCA and you’re like, they don’t have that machine here. That’s weird. What do I do? We we had to, you know, he he’s really good at what he does and was able to kind of overlap everything smoothly, so we always had the equipment we needed. I want you to be able to brag on yourself and brag on your team, and I want or if we want to move the conversation to the PJ Championship and your first major championship triumph. Um, and there’s probably lots that we could uh unpack and and ultimately will, but if you can take us to that 72nd hole. Um, you’d mentioned something in our first podcast and I wrote it down here, but it stuck with me. Not quite. Um, if you want to win, you have to do this. Was that going through your head at all with the 71st or 72nd hole? Yeah, for sure. all of my dad’s little little uh cues or talks, you know, he was as if he was by my side kind of not yelling at me, but just reminding me of sort of what needs to be done. He was he was very very much with me on on Sunday, all of Sunday, I should say. And so there was there was that element of well you know like especially when I got in that b when I got to the 18th hole in that bunker and my ball was there there and you know could have thought all kinds of things. I was just kind of like all right well he always said you know got to walk through the fire to get to where you want to be or you know if you want to win like this is the kind of crap that you got to do so just deal with it. And so all that stuff was just in my head and it was very positive and no at no point was I ever down on anything. I was just like, you know, kind of a a dog chasing chasing a stick. There was only one goal in mind, you know, I’m going to get this thing and go. Yeah. And take us back to the uh the start of that day. You you sleep well uh before you show up to the golf course. How calm are you? How how anxious are you? Was it different in any other way than our previous chances? Yeah, it was uh fortunately had my wife and my dogs with me so and my you know, my uncle’s in the house. Austin wasn’t there, but my brother was cooking. So, as comfortable as an environment as I could have created for myself, I did. And, you know, I talked with Maya a little bit at night and had an exchange of text with my dad, but it was pretty like pretty hoham. I think we were we watched an episode. I can’t remember what show we were watching, but kind of watched an episode. You know, my wife fell asleep next to me as she always does through the opening credits. And then I was kind of on my own for, you know, 45 minutes and ended up going to bed. So it it I really, you know, try to get in that routine where, you know, there’s there’s no reason to treat it any different than than you normally would. You know, when you’re shooting 65 or or a great scoreer, you sort of let it happen and um you get out of your way to let it happen. So why why would I, you know, not everyone is like Tiger that says they’re going to do this? Obviously, we all want to do it and believe we can, but for me, I felt just go be you go go about your business. see everyone you need to see to to warm up to stretch to train and you know see Chris on the range and do all the putting drills like Kaiser set up for me and then you know it’s off to the first te hey you you brought up Kaiser there is there anything uh during the round or during that finish that stands out as far as how he supported you or things that he was telling you or reminded you of to help with some of the selft talk because I I went back and I looked at the the drive that you hit that hangs there and you’re on your your feet are in the bunker, you got a hazard. There’s a lot of opportunity for your mind to go sideways during that 18th hole. Is there anything that stands out from what Austin was saying to it during that round? He knows I mean I’ve I’ve fed Austin to I think he knows me so well now that I’ve always told him that I don’t I don’t need someone to sit there and tell me like it’s going to be okay or tell me to the positive reinforcement. just really lock into making the correct decision and really think, you know, if if I would he knows me so well now that I think if he were to start giving me like positive words of encouragement, I would be like, “Are you nervous?” So, he just he knows, you know, I can deal with a lot of stuff in my own head and because I am in my own head, just make sure everything else is buttoned up around us. So whether it’s like a a ruling, there’s been several times where we’re getting a ruling and Austin saw something that I didn’t didn’t see because I’m I’m trying to accept what’s happening in front of me and not thinking of well, you know, you can drop on the other side of this and get closer than get relief off of that and then all of a sudden, you know, you’re in short grass or like you’re in, you know, not in knee high rough. So there’s been a few times where he’s been clutched there and, you know, he’s just locked in. So um we we make a good team in that way. Are are there anything that stands out because you said you try to just go about your business, do your normal thing. What are the big parts of the routine? Because we’re we’re always kind of trying to coach our players into that really good decision-making process. They don’t always have a caddy with them at that time depending on what level they’re playing. But as soon as Austin sets that bag down, are there one or two things that you want to make sure that are integral and that are part that you make make sure that you don’t skip in that routine? Um I feel like when I mean yeah for example going back to Japan yeah I think when you’re playing really well you know coming off the season we were in good form and then we didn’t we didn’t see each other for a bit and then we we get to Japan this past year you know I finished like 45th in in the field and I remember after my first round I remember talking with him well when things are going so well you get in this really good flow and everything’s good you’re seeing the lines good you’re hitting it at your targets it’s sort of like Uh Austin and I have such a good relationship. We can almost read each other’s minds type deal. And when we got to Japan, you know, I wasn’t hitting it as good and I needed a little bit more of like a a reference or cushion on aim because I wasn’t hitting it perfect. And we never made that adjustment. We kind of acted we like walked through as if I was still striping it to to a tree at 310 yards out and etc. you know, and so I remember after the round I was like, we need to we need to talk like a little bit more, you know, like if it’s flowing 15 into left to right, like give me like a number or a window when a specific tree so I can paint the picture a little bit better. I just think you can kind of get a little complacent when things are going really well. What I realized to waste a stupid shot just because you’re like, ah, you know, I’ve, you know, I’ve hit out this tree, you know, for two months now, like can’t miss. And then all of a sudden, you know, you whiff and then you get in your head and then that spiral. You know, my dad, one of my favorite things my dad always said is confidence is like a a tender little plant, you know, takes forever to grow and and when one night to stomp it out. So, I I I like to hold on to that. Very true. So true. C can you speak to the sense of fulfillment that came in uh materializing a goal, a dream quite frankly? I mean, you’ve won PJ tour events and quite a few of them in Olympic medal, but this is the major championships are different, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was uh yeah, a dream come true. I mean, I my the sense of relief that overcame me and and hugging Austin and seeing his excitement and then seeing everyone, you know, behind the green huddle up in a circle and then everyone’s crying and it just uh it it’s really cool to to deliver it and and to feel all those emotions. And it was a big big, you know, arena there on on the on the green there on 18. So overwhelmed with emotions when when that putt lipped in and um yeah, it was cool. You know, my dad wasn’t there unfortunately, but it was cool to talk to him shortly after and you know, go through that whole process. But yeah, I mean I’ve I’ve had a little It’s funny being hurt is like a really shitty thing, but you you get time to sort of reflect on things that you normally never do. like I’ve in my eight or nine years on tour or playing playing as a pro, I’ve never had time to reflect on my career in January and February, you know what I mean? So, it’s been a weird place, but uh it’s it yeah, it’s been it’s been an awesome an awesome thing to accomplish and definitely very fulfilling. That reflection is a word that I was going to ask you about because I was curious how soon after the celebration, the fulfillment, does it turn into reflection as far as hey, what just happened in the last week? What do we need to bottle up? What are the things that we did this week that we can hopefully recreate, which clearly you did at Tron a few months later or a couple months later. Was there a is is there a kind of formalized reflection process that you’re going through or Chris is going through or Austin and dad that picks out one two things to make sure that okay, this is part of the formula that we really need to make sure is part of the process moving forward. Yeah, I think quail was sort of where it all clicked for me from a playing standpoint, like competing and and trying to win and and being able to hit certain shots is I sort of had a few aha moments out there where I was like, dude, I’ve was walking. I mean, I got smoked by Rory there by whatever six or seven in the end, but there’s a few shots in the hunt there where I was like, this is, you know, been a while or maybe like never. I’ve never been able to hit that shot in my entire life. So, it gave me a the world of confidence going into to Valhalla to sort of I wasn’t even worried about losing by six. I was more excited about what I was what I was able to do with the golf ball and knew that if I can kind of keep my head head in a reasonable place, I’ll have a really good really good look at it. Um, again, anchoring to that comment on reflection, I mean, in many regards, winning two majors, you’re at the top of the game, whether that’s by ranking or just based on like the career achievement standpoint. um and being sitting on top. How do you reset new goals? Is it is it simply about um showing up and giving yourself the best opportunity to uh compete to the best of your ability week in week out or do you have an outlook now that has shifted from let’s say 12 months ago or 18 months ago? I I think it’s pretty similar. I feel in in reflection I feel that I mean like I said this I’m like I’m in a weird place. I’ve I’ve been angry. I’ve been sad. I’ve been you know excited to play and then sad again because I couldn’t trying to come back and then being halted. So um in terms of the o overall reflection I I feel I feel I feel pretty similar. I feel like I I’ve the danger’s been taken away from me and and I and you know it sounds dramatic, but I’ve always been able to practice and play and do what I’ve always wanted to do my entire life. And this has been the first time I’ve ever been halted. And I I really do love I love all the small things about golf. I love hitting balls. I love putting. I love chipping. I love playing with my friends. I love seeing the ball fly. Like all that stuff I still love. So, a a deep appreciation has kind of dawned over me recently knowing everything is going to be fine and knowing that I’ll be able to compete again. And I think, you know, guys like Scotty Shuffler make it I have achieved a lot, but in a sick way, he’s made it not very special in my competitive mind because I’m still so far away from him. And, you know, then you tie in this sort of confidence is this little little plant. you know, my plan’s gotten absolutely stomped out. So, um, you know, I’m trying to train my brain right now to, you know, re like sort of why not come back and play really well, you know, just because, you know, everyone talked about rust and such a commonly, you know, used word when guys are coming, you know, coming back to play, but, you know, there’s guys like Tiger who didn’t play very much, you know, the likes of Stricker who didn’t play very much and, you know, they rattled off four or five wins in 12 starts. So, you know, I think this is like a new challenge that I’ve sort of in my reflection phase have tried to entered, which is how can I come back as good or better than before. Um, you know, and, you know, I think that overwhelming acceptance thing is going to have to kick in. You know, I got what I got and and I’m going to go go get it. And maybe you answered it there, but one thing that comes to mind is just dealing with expectations. We we have, you know, kids that are highly ranked junior or college players that we coach and there’s a lot of expectation to win. When you come back from injury, uh there’s even though you’ve got time off, we’re going to expect you to win soon. People are going to be talking about that. How do you deal with that noise and and how do you make sure that that noise isn’t part of the thought process or and I guess you you probably have a good perspective on it from we all expected, you know, you were knocking at the door of major wins for quite some time, so you were dealing with that expectation. What’s your advice to those players that need to kind of close out that noise? Yeah, I mean, so yeah, the two majors and, you know, having a pretty good year and then so excited to come back into, you know, 2025 and like watch what I can do now and then to just sit and watch everyone else is is is been humbling. So, you know, I think luckily for me, there’s no expectation anyone can put on me that’s that’s as high as the one I put on myself. So, um, you know, I always expect myself to do crazy things and and if it doesn’t happen, it just pushes me to want to work. And the cool thing about sort of taking this step back is, you know, I’ve been doing it for nine years and this sort of fire and and this will and want to do it is still there. You know, there’s going to be time and we might talk in nine years and, you know, I’ll be looking the other direction. you know, I I still feel like I’m looking very much forward and I’m still very excited about what’s forward and it’s weird to look backwards at 31 years old. You know, there’s so many guys that are really young, but um you know, I think for any junior, you know, I’d always Well, was I was just talking to someone. It’s funny how uh when you need to be present uh in in tough spots, it’s very hard to be present because you’re always looking forward. And now that, you know, when I’ve been hurt, I’ve been so stuck in the present that it’s like I’m just thinking about how it sucks now, but I need to look forward. So, life’s funny that way. Yeah, it is. Um, touching again on expectations, it’s one thing to have great expectations of yourself and those around you and your team, but if we kind of flash back to Rome and the Ryder Cup, it’s another thing to have expectations of yourself on behalf of, let’s say, your performance um, in a team environment. Um, so can you touch on how that’s amplified at a RDER Cup and how when it does become amplified, are there people that you can rely on inside of that team? Again, kind of we’re speaking to an audience of whether it’s high school players or collegiate players who also carry that burden with him as well. Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good one. I mean, R was probably as as as bad. I played bad and you know Pat and I got off to a rough start I remember and he started turn it on and just like any good teammate wants you’re like okay like we’re we’re getting the we’re getting the vibe here and I just left them I just left my guy hanging you know I missed I missed important putts that I I normally wouldn’t like you know the first time in a team event where I was I was whiffing these putts and you know I I felt I was so upset after the round you know he he was really nice and he came up to me and he gave me a hug and he said, “We’re going to do a lot more of these, so so so buckle up. Like, it’s going to be fine.” In that moment, though, I was devastated. You know, I I I was very, it was probably the most upset I’ve been in in a really long time, and I haven’t really admitted that to anyone. But it’s interesting how, you know, when you’re in a team environment, letting someone else down is, you know, letting yourself down or playing bad is one thing. And then, you know, when you let your teammates down, especially when the room is close, man, is that is that another thing? So, I think the the warmth from the team helps. Um, you know, I think everyone sort of having this this this an open communication. I think everyone knew that we were all trying. I think if you can hang your hat on, I tried my hardest. And some days it’s just I I sucked today. Like I I really did and I’m going to I’m gonna go to sleep and and not think about it because, you know, there’s nothing nothing that good night of sleep can’t heal truly. Um because that’s the only way your brain’s going to be fresh to fire and make better decisions the next day. But yeah, that was it was it was a quiet night. I can tell you that. I I want to hit one more topic before we let you go, Xander. Um, and it’s it’s always really good to talk with players like you when we’re trying to communicate to players that we coach, like the importance of discipline, the sacrifice, the hard things that you have to do to achieve what you have. It it carries a hell of a lot more weight when it comes from you than when it comes from Cameron and I trying to kind of tell these kids this. Yeah. Well, so what can you speak a little bit to for a junior golfer that’s listening? What is what are the hardest parts of being disciplined? What does discipline look like to Xander on the PGA Tour right now? And what parts are you good at on discipline? And are there still parts that you that you still struggle with? Yeah. To to a junior, I mean, I think that was where I struggled the most. Those were the biggest fights I got in with my dad. I was the most sort of like an outcast as I felt was in sort of, you know, middle school or high school where all the kids would be hanging out and, you know, my dad and I had that sit down of of of talking, you know, manto man at 13 sort of like this is what I want to do for a living. It’s an early age to commit, you know, missing a high school dance that someone asked you to and where you asked someone to and then bailing on them and then people like, you know, where have you been, you know, and then me sort of feeling like embarrassed about what I was doing at that time. And so sort of hiding part of my identity at at a young age was was interesting. It was tricky. And I think it sort of switched when I turned 17 or 18. It was like a different level of commitment. You know, I had a hard time dealing with it early on that I’m going to play golf. I’m going to miss all these things. You know, I’m not going to be around a lot of people. I’m not going to be on a team. It’s a lot of alone time for a kid. Luckily, I had my friend with me, so that that helped a ton. Um, and as a pro now, uh, it’s it really I mean, I’m doing what I love to do. So, I feel very fortunate and there there’s nothing that I making sacrifices now as a as a pro golfer is really easy because, you know, I’m willing to do anything I can to get better, get healthier, hit it further, you know, you name it. If someone can convince me and back up with with decent enough proof, I’ll do it. But I remember as as a junior golfer, those sacrifices were tough. And in order to be really good at something, you just have to spend a lot of time doing it. And there’s no better time to start than when you’re young. and you can devel develop a lot of really good habits when you’re young and luckily I developed some um you know pretty decent structure and routine and found really good people now that bolster me up. So, you know, I feel super fortunate now as as a pro and everything feels easier. U but as a junior, I remember it being a little trickier and obviously it’s easy to say now that I’m on tour, like it was all worth it. But, you know, I think you can you can be proud if you if you’re disciplined and and willing to work hard enough and some of your friends are lazy, you can you can be really proud and hang your hat on on the fact that you know you you busted your ass whether you make it or not. H how about and we did talk about the your kind of path in in junior golf and it was really really good and I encourage everybody that’s listening now if they haven’t listened to our previous conversation to to do so but you took a little bit different path and we talked a little bit about that and as I was I was relisting that episode I wish I had asked you at the time was to speak to the junior golfer that does feel like they’re maybe behind maybe that’s not playing the AJ schedule that’s playing more regional stuff if there was something that you could advice or wisdom that you could impart on that that player or family that uh that is feeling like they’re behind because they’re not going down that path. Yeah, I think my dad was sort of my my gatekeeper of of sort of where my game was at and and what I was sort of capable of doing. It’s really hard to, I think, you know, have sort of spectate your kid and and and and have a sort of objective opinion on how he’s doing, you know, and and my dad always was he would never tell me, “Oh, you’re doing great.” He’d always tell me, “You need to work more.” You know, and whenever I was down in the dumps, he’d be like, “You’re doing great.” You know, like he he would pick me up whenever I needed it. But until I was like very rock bottom, he he he’d let me know that, you know, the sun’s up. You know, why why are you here? that that was sort of the mentality growing up. Um uh but sorry I started phased out of what your question was there. Yeah. Well, just the kid that if if they’re not playing AJA, they’re not um like nationally ranked kids, right? We’re playing all the those local San Diego events and clearly were on the right path, but you may not have known it at that time. I I didn’t. So, yeah, sorry. That’s correct. I was trying to loop it back around. I mean, my dad was the gatekeeper, so he always kept track of where I was at. And he was German in his way of, you know, he was objective enough and would kind of push me in in a direction, guide me, always ask if I wanted to do it along the way, and I’d always say, “Yes, this is what I want to do.” And then he just drop the hammer on me. So, I feel like if someone’s able to because it’s so hard for a kid to be, you know, he’s so biased on sort of what happened like, “I played terrible today.” Like, you know, well, you did have 22 putts, you know, like what’d you do? You had two OB. you didn’t really play that bad. You know, there’s a few things you can clean up, but I think it’s important to have someone sort of keep track of what you’re doing. I’m sure there’s so many sort of um I remember my dad made me shoot like shot shots on golf was like a thing way back. I don’t know if that sounds familiar, but I would keep track of all my stats and my dad forced me to do it as if it was extra homework. Um, and then I got, you know, I thought it was so fun to key and stuff and see if I could improve and drag these needles on that on that chart to see like, okay, well, if I can do this, what will my scoring average be? And then it was this all of a sudden, you know, my dad found it and it was like this internal battle that started within myself, like how good can I get and how quickly can I do it? And of course, you know, if you make these big leaps, all of a sudden getting a little bit better becomes really hard. You know, going from 72 to 71 and a half is a lot harder than it looks. And uh I think that is an important thing. You need to track what you’re doing to make it a realistic goal and take some emotions out of it. You know, I think any kid can see, you know, if your scoring average was 78 and you dropped it at 75, like you may not be as good as some kids, but you’re getting better. You know, if you can drop it another couple in a year, like go go go from there. So, I think it’s people that don’t track it, that don’t want to look at their results, that are sort of scared of scared of being in the room of of assessment. You know, it’s I lived in that room and, you know, it kind of got me to this point. Yeah. Objective analysis can be liberating to the and in addition to that. Um, running your own race is the message that, um, we try and reinforce for all of those types of players. And your dad certainly did a great job of doing that. my buddy back in Australia, Stewie Leong, who developed that program, will get a kick out of the fact that you were using it, but I get a kick out of the fact that you were using it. Such brilliant insights, such great wisdom out of a 31year-old. You’re still young. You’re still looking forward and we’re excited to not only see you in um future events um but also see you excel um time and time again. Thanks for your time. Yeah, I’m Corey. Thank you guys so much. Thanks, man. Talk soon. All righty. Okay, Kim, we’re are back here for the Xander episode. We’re going to break down a few of the things that as we were listening perked our ears that we thought were really important that we want to just highlight and break down for the parents, the players, and the coaches that were listening. And uh I mentioned parents. The first thing that I wrote down was having a parent as a coach. And Xander is obviously further along in his career when he’s making this transition where the parent is making the the transition from coach to maybe a slightly different role. Uh for most players it happens earlier. We we have witnessed a lot of those transitions, haven’t we? As we’ve coached youth players. And so I just wanted to highlight just the uh thoughtfulness and intentionality that Chris Como and Xander and uh and Xander’s dad went through and Stephan and uh making that transition. Can you kind of speak to I I love when you talk about deputizing parents. Can you speak a little bit to why you feel like that was an important part of the conversation that parents should be paying attention to? Yeah, I mean our role as coaches to players um also bleeds into our role in coaching parents. Um because when we’re meeting with a 8-year-old, a six-year-old or even a 15year-old, how often is a parents in attend in a is a parent in attendance? And that’s almost 100% of the time. And there’s good reason for that. Um and the reason for that is um we don’t have the wisdom that can be earned through being this with this person on a very regular basis, multiple hours a day, watching them compete, watching them train, living in the same household, understanding what are the other extracurricular uh things that they’re involved in and what are the other potential um distractions to the path that they are on that path as it relates to kind of mastery inside of golf And so for us, um, number one, we’re we have, um, an added perspective, an added a measure of knowledge that’s coming from that parent. But number two, what we don’t have when that client leaves our presence is um a lasting influence um beyond what we can u maybe provide them as closing notes, whether that be a video um or a asynchronous sometimes synchronous opportunity to coach them remotely, whether it’s be through FaceTime or Zoom or um your chosen application. But yet the parents with them most of the time in practice. And so if we can um set up some clear kind of boundaries um some um posts that the parent can continue to stay in, then um it’s better for us because we’re going to get more lasting results with that with that client over time. Um and therefore it’s better for the player as well that they’ve got that extra set of eyes that’s uh very much informed in terms of what they should be looking for. And it removes this level of potential friction between parent and player when the player has been um when the player’s heard that coach wants parent to watch X and Y and provide feedback that isn’t very very pointed and narrow and um simple. Um then it removes all of that friction that comes from opinion. This is coming from camera. It’s coming from Corey. It’s coming from your coach. And all I am is the deliverer of that calling balls and strikes as I see it. Right. Um and we are both in that phase as parents of coaching our kids. Um and one point before you probably add something to this is just major props out there to a parent that’s seen their kid through this journey too. whether that’s playing in high school or play in college or ultimately play into professional golf. And major props to any parent that’s um started their kid in golf and that kid is still in golf at any level because it’s um it’s it’s difficult it’s difficult to navigate that um slippery slope of being a parent on one hand but then being a coach on another. Um yeah, props. Yeah, and I think you’re right. I mean, you bring up the the great point of once you’ve been on the other side, there’s just this unbelievable appreciation for how difficult it is because you’re coming from a place where your job is to provide this wonderful experience for your kid. You want them to do well. Uh, and it can be stressful at times. Golf is a hard game and to watch your kids struggle is difficult. But I think that the the lesson that I heard from this transition that Xander uh explained was that it doesn’t have to be this divorce. It’s not this breakup. It’s it’s just because mom or dad is not swinging coach doesn’t mean that they’re not essential to this process. And I think that Xander’s a beautiful example of that. I think he relies on his dad for so many things and just uh beyond just swing coach. So I think that just having those clearly defined lanes uh and handling that transition thoughtfully and and carefully I think was a really cool story to hear from Z. Um so let’s move on to the swing change. So the transition. Yeah. exactly what materialized out of changing coaches. Xander talks about being on Pebble, hitting three balls in the water and feeling sick in the head that he used. Like he’s sticking to this. He’s not going to spit the bit. He is not going to say, you know what, that didn’t work. I’m going to do something different. And so the big takeaway that I want everyone to hear when they hear that story is that Xander wasn’t just blindly following instructions from a coach. He wasn’t following the prescription and just here’s what they said I’d do, so I’m going to do it. I think it’s very clear that there’s a an immense amount of trust that Xander has in Chris Ko and what they were working on, but b and I think most importantly, there’s an understanding of the why they were doing it. So there’s an ownership of I know why we are making the changes that we are making. I’m not blindly following instructions. I have a real understanding of what this is. And so it’s a lot easier to hit that third ball in the Pacific at Pebble knowing that hey, this is part of the process. I understand what’s going on. I might even understand why that miss is happening. And so uh I can kind of stick to this change. If everyone listening had the same amount of steadfast belief in what they were doing and stuck to it, then golf would be a lot easier for a lot of people get somewhere. I wouldn’t. Yeah. Exactly. Rather than that cycle of that didn’t work, I’m going to try this. No, that didn’t work. I’m not I didn’t stick with this long enough to get good at it, so now I’ll try this. And golf is really hard when that’s the way we’re approaching improvement or technical change, right? Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Uh we often times talk about let’s get off the carousel. Let’s not ride this swing thought for a short period of time and then look to the right or to the left and someone else is doing something down the range or you see someone else having success with um another coach or another strength and conditioning um individual and decide to go in a different direction. And um that would be one point. But going back to something that you’d said on the front end of understanding why is that conversation that um that Xander Stfan his dad um and his entire team had with Chris and that’s that cost benefit benefit analysis um believe it when I say that the um there are costs to change and you need to have that wise and responsible conversation with the people that are advising you no matter whether you’re um 26 to 30 years old competing for major championships or whether you’re 15 years old and you’re wanting to um do well um in the high school events that you’re playing in. Um and then even before that, Xander talked about what uh what happened precoid and that was a lot of playing of golf. And one other point that I wanted to make um as we’re talking about this change that he and um Chris implemented was that when you play a lot of golf, it’s very easy for creep to happen. So if we can think about your optimal swing corridor or corridors um being the place that you want to always show up and play within. Well, the more golf you play in the varied conditions and the varied lives and circumstances you face yourself in, there’s always going to be creep away from that midline, right? And Xander described creaking far enough away from that midline that he had to learn, which is a great thing to be able to learn to get the job done. Um, golf bore the most optimal score on that given day, but there were certain shots that he formerly could hit that he could no longer hit because of this creep. And that was one of the reasons why um he and Chris and his team decided to make this change. So I I think it’s super important that we recognize that um giving yourself these opportunities to reflect on what is it that I move like um how my swing needs to function when I’m performing well and keep it within those relatively um um tight boundaries and also giving yourself those windows of opportunity to um to um move through that early difficulty of change. Because whilst Xandanna talks about being sick in the head and hitting those three shots in the Pacific and you’ll see as Xanna brought up Jordan making those um very exaggerated rehearsals or Alex Norer or any player making any type of rehearsal, it’s designed to implement a feel so that feel turns into um a change in their action, a change in their swing so they can get better. Um, but I’ve heard it countless times said that it’s a horrible thing to have to do that while you’re trying to compete, particularly at the world class level. And so if you can give yourself these breaks from competition to get this in, then um the fragility that comes with less psychological scars um is likely I don’t want to say eliminated, but certainly lessened, right? because Zan has now got to step up the next time he plays 18 at Pebble Beach and hopefully have some amnesia to those results. But if you get the learning done outside of competition, then it’s a whole lot easier to not have to have that amnesia um post that. Yeah, beautiful, man. I love that. I want to let’s move on. Our next topic that I wrote down was uh on the topic of speed, which is one I was pretty eager to hear Xander talk about new song. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And and we did and and we were curious and unfortunately as I think the listener will have a similar experience. There wasn’t a magic pill. There wasn’t this this hack that said, “Oh my gosh, this is where Xander got speed.” And I think that that’s the takeaway is that yes, there are speed tools. There’s over speed tools and there’s there’s different things that you can do in your swing, but what it comes down to is the consistency of strength training and heavy lifting and doing that often. And I think we kind of knew that that was the answer already, but it’s nice to hear that validated a a little bit. Can you speak a little bit to kind of what you see in players that are trying to get faster and the maybe the roads that they go down that you think are are not the uh the quickest way or the best way to those those speed gains? You know, I think speed is an objective. It’s been criminalized for decades now. Players try to get better and they play worse because of it. And I don’t think that’s entirely um true. and I don’t think there is a direct line of causality ever in that type of um situation. That’s the first statement I would make. And then secondarily, I do agree and I would underscore that anything you want is on the other side of work, right? And if the work is the thing that we’re avoiding doing, then you can really forget about the results becoming better and you can forget about the results becoming significantly better. So there are marginal gains to be found for most every player if we can trace the components of speed whether that’s um the total distance of the back swing that gives you a greater range through which you can accelerate the immediate impulse out of transition. That is the um buildup of your body segments to produce acceleration when the hand is above your head and gets to call it 25 mph hopefully or even greater um in terms of grip speed in the middle of down spin. Right? So we can trace the um elements that contribute to club head speed and there are marginal gains likely within all of those elements and more. Um, but I would liken those marginal gains to being able to drive um, a Kia, a fourcylinder car faster. Yeah, you can drive it faster, but in order to create gains that are substantial, there’s likely a a much more wellthoughtout approach to take that involves strength and conditioning like Xander did, like every player on the PJ and LPGA tour is um doing over the what last 10, 12, 15 years, 20 years. So, there’s that side of it. And then there’s having a plan that’s specific to you rather than just willy-nilly picking and choosing what you might have seen on Instagram or um seen in the latest YouTube episode from your favorite YouTube golfer, right? So, you’ve got to consult with the brains trust. And that was littered through Xander’s conversation that he has a brain trust of some of the smartest people in the world doing this. And if you’re hardressed to know who those people are, that’s not a bad thing. But the best place to go to is a resource like TPI. Go and find a local TPI um practitioner in your area and get evaluated. And then hopefully that TPI practitioner in all likelihood has a um a collaborative uh relationship with a local golf coach. And then you have a team of three then aiding and embedding your uh your development to become a better golfer in this case more powerful and explosive golfer. C can you speak a little bit too just to dig in this a little bit more because I love hearing you talk about it but on the difference between or the recommendation you would make between someone who is just doing is doing more golf specific exercises like what a TPI uh fitness trainer might prescribe versus just more traditional strength training because there’s room for both of those things right yeah there’s certainly room for both of those things I think that TPI would say that um mobility and stability are the bottom of the kind of platform that um provide improved abilities or capacities. And then above and beyond that, there is strength. And then there’s power. The differential between strength and power is you and I could probably um go into the gym right now and both bench press um a 45 lb bar, no problem. Um that would be us having an equivalent uh strength. But then power is how quickly you can lift that bar through a range of motion, right? you probably lift that bar for a f through for a range of motion that’s equivalent we’ll call it two foot of travel faster than I can do it. So therefore that would define you as a more powerful um person doing that. I like this analogy. Keep going. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. say boards. But then there’s certain aspects within um the continuum of developing strength that would be uh building increases in muscle size. And increases in muscle size generally at some point move over this kind of crossover point, this inflection point where it’s actually detrimental to the necessary mobility that you need as a golfer. Um so we got to be careful in terms of how much uh mass building uh we do the type of work that um creates hypertrophy or muscle soreness, muscle damage and therefore uh growth of new muscle fiber. Um and that would be the bodybuilding type of workouts. Um the most responsible way to look at this is to do it alone. um is likely a fool’s unless it’s your full-time job. And so therefore, the best advice that I can give you is you got to lean on someone that can write a program for you that targets your unique capabilities. And that’s capabilities both from a asset and also a liability standpoint. What is deficient? What needs improvement? And what are you already good at that we can’t quote unquote lose in terms of those capabilities? That may be your current power abilities or that may be your current um flexibility and mobility. Um so not to overgeneralize um yeah your workouts fully formed may involve some sense of what you see a bodybuilder doing down the other end of the gym or they likely in many ways will look completely different to what u a bodybuilder might be doing. But as long as you’re uh under the guidance of someone that does this professionally, you’re um going to be working a program that’s custom and specific to you. Yeah, I’m glad I asked that followup and it makes me want us to get someone who is one of those experts on and have a a really long conversation with them about that soon. Um I’m going to wrap up our conversation here. The last note that I wrote down has been one that was really helpful to me and that’s on stats. Xander explains stats being this really helpful part of his development younger how they were really motivating to them. And Cam, we talk about stats all the time. You’re you have always been uh better at compliance. You you’ve the the clients that come see you are really really compliant to keeping their stats. And I think I learned something from the conversation with Xander in that I’ve always framed stats as being for me. They’ve always been, “Hey, help me help you. I’m not on the sidelines. This isn’t like other sports. I can’t see you compete.” It really helps me a lot when you come in with stats, which is true. I’m able to before I see a client get a really, really clear picture of what their performance is so that I can make sure that the time that we spend together is supercharged. It’s spent spending time on the areas or the skills that going to have a direct impact on their score. So, it’s massively helpful. And listening to Xander describe it, it’s not for me as much as it’s for the player. And it was very important for him in creating this feedback loop of all right, here’s what the data says, so I’m going to go work on this next. And then I see progress and now I’m motivated. Repeat. And you wrap this cycle of motivation and feedback that I think if I had if I have been framing uh keeping stats that way for my clients for the last 20 years, I would have achieved far better compliance because it is a boring, mundane thing for people to do. And especially when you’re talking to a 13-year-old kid, 14-y old kid that you’re assigning more homework to, I think it’s all in the framing of it. And so that’s really what I took away from this and it’s been helpful since having that conversation. So, you’re already good and I guess you’ve been doing it that way the whole way. Did you have any thoughts on Xander’s relationship with stats? No, I just um for the listeners out there that think of it as a chore, just wind back two or three minutes to what you started to describe there and so eloquently described and wind back into the episode where Xander talks about it and that should serve as um good rationale to um the commitment to do that for yourself as a as a player. And to close, I had one other thing that surfaced out of the conversation that um I thought was um a point in the conversation that could be uh could be lost. And I think it’s super important that um particularly for any player that is on the path. You may be 40 years old and playing at amateur golf or you may be 50 55 years old playing senior amateur golf competitively or you may be 10 years old on the path towards um high performance elite type of golf. And it it underscored something that you and I talk about at length with almost every client that we um are blessed to coach. And that’s that mundanity versus complacency. Um that every day in pursuit of doing something better uh this journey uh offers so much sameness um that it can create uh complacency. So the sameness is the is how mundane it is. And if it’s mundane day in and day out, we can get complacent, maybe not um deliver 100% effort each and every day or potentially lose that fire. That fire can smolder. And what Xander was talking about in the early part here in 2025 was when he was relegated to the couch as he was recovering from this this rib injury that he had. He realized the deep appreciation, the joy, the love he has of the little things in golf, the ball contact, of the ball flight, of the hours that he has to practice in order to continue to be one of the best players in the world. And it’s just a demonstration of that love of the little things is the embodiment of that mastery mindset that yes, each each and every day you can look and feel the same, but the reason you’re doing this, yes, maybe to shoot a lower score, but ultimately the reason you’re doing this is to surface a better version of yourself, both physically, psychologically. Um, and so that final point that I would make is Xander just like all of these players to do things that are difficult to become the best version of themselves over 10, 20, 30, 40 year career means they lean into mastery as their primary motivation. And I think any listener could be well served by doing the same. I love it, man. That’s a really good place. I’m not going to add anything to that. Uh we’re going to wrap this up. I’m I’m really thankful and and my gratitude that Xander joined us and shared all that with us. I’m thankful to our listeners that hung on this long and and kept listening. If you found any of this helpful, hopefully you’re able to apply some of the things that we’ve highlighted. Maybe you found some highlights of your own. Uh please, if you have, share this with others, pass it along, and we will see you next time for another episode of hopefully more wisdom coming soon. Thanks for listening.