I Caddied for Tiger Woods! (amazing story)

I Caddied for Tiger Woods! (amazing story)

All right, guys. Welcome back to the Rick Shields Golf Show podcast episode 314. Today we’ve got a guest on guy. Yes. And we’ve just wrapped up the podcast with said guest. Honestly, you are in for one of the most incredible podcasts I think we’ve ever recorded. It’s with the legend himself, Billy Foster, who has caddied for over 40 years for some of the best players that have ever played the game of golf. I listen to the name of players that he has carried for and it’s absolutely incredible. But not only that, the anecdotes, the stories, the funny little stories that he told us. What a guy. What a story. I I honestly can’t wait for people to get in the car today, drive to work, drive to the gym, wherever you’re going to, put this podcast on, and just consume it. Names like, let’s just let’s just slam a few names down here on the table. You ready? Sevy Balsteros. Done. Tell you what, I’ll I’ll raise your sevios. That’s a very hard race to make admittedly, but I’ll raise your sevy with a little Tiger Woods. Come on. He has also cadded for Darren Clark, Lee Westwood, Matt Fitzpatrick, which he won the U at the 2022 US Open with um Sergio Garcia, the iconic shot in the bunker. We we kicked off this podcast asking him about that that exact shot. Sergio Garcia, Thomas Bejorn, Kyra, more recently. In fact, he cadded for Kyra at the Scottish Open the Open this year. He’s also rekindled a a flame with Lee Westwood on the last few events of the Live Golf season where I got to meet Billy a bit more personally which was great. But honestly, some of his stories, some of his impressions, uh just swear words, just a warning. I was going to say a bit like the Rachel Drummond episode, which by the way, I’m thanks so much that you love that episode. There are a few curse words in this in this episode. Um but it all it was all context. It was not none of it was vulgar. No. You know what? There was a few things in this podcast that I think really stuck out to me. I won’t give it away too much, but first it was a Darren Clark story. That was very heartwarming. That was very kind of deep, but that was that was an interesting one. There was the story obviously around cading for Tiger Woods at the President’s Cup. That was incredible. But probably the biggest takeaway for me that I didn’t realize is how much Cadian has changed in the last 20, 30 years. That what Caddies used to do compared to what they do today is two very different jobs. Caddies have got it easy now. Easy. in the millions. No. All being said, this is a fantastic episode with honestly a true caddy legend. Like he is, we asked him about who would be on his Mount Rushmore of Caddies and he didn’t put his name on it humbly. He would be on most people’s most caddies Mount Rushmore of Caddies. Without further ado, sit back and enjoy this incredible episode with the legend himself, Billy Foster. So Billy, I’m on the 18th hole. I’m about to win the biggest tournament of my life. I’m in a bunker 156 yards away. 157 slightly uphill. You then passed Matt Fitzpatrick that nine iron and he hit an unbelievable golf shot. Is that almost one of the most nervous moments of your career, exciting moments of your career? kind of take us back to that um 18th hole at Brook line 2022. Um it’s quite a funny story really because on the Monday I’m I’m walking the golf course. I’m drawing me a book or whatever making me notes and I got to the 18th and I thought at 270 280 yards the fairway was probably 28 30 yards wide but when you went past that the bunkers came in the rough came in so about 300 yards it were probably 18 to 20 yards wide. So I’ve made me notes. I’ve put t-shirt to 270 to 280. And I said, “I’m doing it just in Rose Walks Pass.” He says, “What you seeing here, Billy?” I said, “I like it here. 270 to 280 off the tea. Widest bit of the fairway. It’s only 150, 160 yards.” Yeah, I like that, Billy. That’ll do for me. So we went out to play a practice round. We get to the last and Fitz pulls a driver out and I said, “I like threewood up here, Matt.” And uh he said, “No, I know what you’re saying, but no, I like driver up here.” So I didn’t argue too much driver straight through the fair win the right hand thick rough had to chop it out chipped it on medorgi. So I’ve never done this before said Fitz. I said let’s go back to the 18th T. It’s six shots at three threewoods and three drivers then see what you think. So I think it’ll prove my prove my theory right you know but you spread them around a little bit. So no real conclusion conclusion to it. So I say what do you fancy now? He says, “No, I know what you’re saying, but no, driver straight is clubing back. I like driver up here. I want to attack it.” I went, “All right.” I said, “So, come Thursday when you’ve hit there and it’s going rough. I don’t want any hindsight.” Said, “No, what we doing here? We should be back there.” He said, “No, no, I’ll accept it. I want to hit driver.” I said, “All right. Well, I like three wheel, but you’re happy we’re driving.” Yeah. I want I want to hit driver. You know, obviously I’m like the navigator. He’s he’s the rally driver. I’m the navigator. Like, so he’s got the wheel. He’s going to do what he wants. So Thursday, Friday, Saturday, first three rounds, he goes borgi par borgi with driver. Okay. So I’m walking to the 18th T on Sunday thinking I’ve seen this odd movie too many times. And he had a one shot was it had one shot one shot lead going down the last sort of like going like that for the driver. I said fits. It’s a 3-wood widest bit of the fairway. It’s a 3wood and a nine. That’s all it is. Okay. So it’s a 3-wood. He pulls it left in the bunker. I’m like, “You’re just a jinx. Why don’t you keep your mouth shut? You I was spewing.” Anyway, after about 30 yards off the tea, he fit stops and turns around. I thought, “Here we go. It’s going to start mourning.” He said, “Billy.” He said, “That were the right club.” I went, “All right, thanks mate.” Cuz I know it would have been Thomas Bjorn or Darren Clark or Sergio Garcia. There’d have been a mound that year after a little crucifix in top of it saying, “Billy, we’re buried here.” Like, you know. Anyway, I get up there. I’ve seen the ball in the bunk and it’s under the lip. I want it to be sick. I thought, “Oh no, this is a chop out.” And Zelatorus is in perfect position. But then when I got there, I’ve done something else I’ never done before. So like I plumb bobbed a five iron up over the ball and me like a foot left of the bank and I saw a flood light the back left of the ground said Fitz if you hit on that flood light that bank’s not in play. So you can hit as hard as you want on that flood light and just try and cut it like you know give him the yard but perfect number for a nine. Okay. 99. And as I walk away, I turn around and he’s already hit it and you just know he’s flushed it. And the worst bit about Fitz’s play that season was his fairway bunker player. He ate him fat all the time, honestly. But because he had to cut it, the heel was up. Yeah. Yeah. And he flushed it and as it’s in the arm, I’m going, “Oh, you beautiful thing.” Like, “Oh my god, how good is that?” And it just kept cutting in and it to like 18 ft and it was it were the shot of the season. There’s no doubt about it. Was the ball slightly above his feet as well on the pitch I’m looking at now. Looks a little bit above his feet slightly also, which would have made the cut even harder, I guess. Yeah, I I can’t remember it being above his feet, but if you’ve got a picture there saying it is slightly you see it there. Yeah, it does a little bit. Well, yeah, it would it would make it obviously a little bit hard if it was. I didn’t I didn’t see that at the time, but it was the shot of the season. How do you in that moment and you’ve had many many moments like this. How do you in that moment you’re trying to keep the player calm, you know? This is he was in a he was listen Fitz was in a great place. You can see it. You can read body language. You can read facial expressions. And he was in he was in the zone. Soon as he hit that shot on 15, he blocked it off the tea and got away with it. And a great a five iron. I think to like 20 ft and hold it for bird. I could tell he was absolutely in the zone. I didn’t have have to whip him like a jockey, you know, like he was in a great place. I didn’t have to wrestle too hard with it at all. Was that a huge relief for you? There was no enjoyment whatsoever. Oh, as in like w winning the major tournament with a player cuz up until that point you hadn’t you hadn’t managed to get across the line. Did that feel like a huge relief as as someone who’s caddied for 40 years for some of the best players in the world? Did that feel like I can now rest easy that I have now won. I am a major winning caddy. Um yeah, there was no sort of like excitement, enjoyment punching the out goods out absolutely brilliant. It was literally, thank God for that cuz I looked at it thinking, you know, I might stop carrying at 60. It’s probably 12 majors left. You’re never going to win one, are you? No, you’re not. And then Fitz of all people, you know, I mean, it was incredible, you know. And it was a moment of as soon as Zelators put stirred up and you realized you finally won a merger with somebody, it was such a surreal experience of no excitement. It was just like utter relief and he had these visions of Thomas Bjorn in that bunker at Sandwich just floating into the sky and Westy 3 put in the last turn floating into the sky. I thought thank god for that. Yeah, it was just utter relief. Yeah, going back to how obviously I feel like we’ve come in hot and coming straight on the major victory with Max. I think that’s such a an incredible story and and like I I think that’s such one of the most iconic second shots into a into a 72nd hole. You know, you talk about all the incredible ones that Tiger has done this that and the other and even like the Ryder Cup who was the player that on the 18th Russell Henley like you look at I like oh my god he’s got to do what Matt Fitzpatrick did. He’s become an iconic golf. It was a real iconic and you had about you probably weren’t watching it at the time cuz you were walking away, but you had front row seat to that shot and you’ve had a front row seat for 40 years to some of the most incredible golf the world has ever witnessed. Tell us about this journey like going back to you started caddy was it in the 80s? Listen, there was a golf tournament at Bingley Saint Ives my home golf club in the early 80s 1981 82 83. So, we’re a 15y old kid, junior. There was no caddies in them days cuz they’re all tramps. There was no money in the game. Uh, so you rock up and caddy and they give you a dozen balls for the week, you know. That was it. That was And you were a kid at this age. I was 15, 16. Uh, I was 15 the first tournament. Um, and I worked for Matt Lanner from Sweden. Okay. That was my first ever job. And um, I was working with my dad, apprentice joiner, 20 quid a week, getting sacked three times a week. And you know we went we started traveling around going to a few different tournaments. Um and it’s after Were you you playing golf at this point weren’t you? Yeah I was playing golf. Yeah played golf from nine years old. Okay. It was half decent but nothing spectacular. Um yeah. So we started following a few tournaments around Britain. You know we went to the car care plan was at Morttown. Benzes was at Fulford in York. Expanded to a couple in London. Then a mate of mine said let’s go to Spain on a six weeks holiday and caddy down there. to which we did and ended up caring for Tony Johnston from Zimbabwe. He finished seventh in the Portuguese Open. Yeah. Now, if you finish seventh in the PJ tournament now, you’re doing all right. You probably get $400,000. He won £1,000 and I got 5% 50 quid. Okay. And you’re paying your own way to Portugal and sleeping in bushes and tents and drawing your own yardage, no range balls. It was so different. So, you weren’t exactly breaking even, were you? Yeah. couldn’t make a bane at it like you know but but through that um we played a practice round with Hugh Bayaki from South Africa and he took a shine to me and like me and asked me if I wanted to come back and had it for him full time so it was like 20 quid apprentice journey with me dad or travel tra travel the world with a professional golf so it was a no-brainer really just going back one step what was really interesting from where you are located kind of lead Bradford way Bingley in that kind of 80s there was a lot of professional golf taking place there wasn’t There was. Yeah. That that was a real hub for professional golf. It was. Yeah. Yeah. There was lots of tournaments in Britain. There must have been a dozen. And now there’s what, two? Well, yeah. British Masters and Wentworth. It’s about it really. Yeah. So, but you were in a great spot and because of that so much incredible golf talent, whether it’s caddies, whether it’s coaches, whether it’s players have come from that region over the years and you obviously a benefit to to that as well. And you went out and you started cadding in Portugal and Spain etc. So then the guy from do you say from Zimbabwe took a shine into you. So how long then were you with him for? I was with Hugh Bay. He was from South Africa. Tony Johnson was from Zimbabwe. But um yeah I ke for Huie for two and a half seasons and then I got porched by Gordon Brown Jr. from Scotland. So Gordon was a great player, vastly underrated player. Played two Ryder Cups. Uh and at the end of the 1990 season, I got offered a job as a assistant professional at Illey Golf Club in West Yorkshire. Yeah. And um I accepted the job. So I said to Gordon, I said, “Look, Gordon, I’ve said I’m packing in at the end of the season cuz you couldn’t make any money.” I was going to say in that in that window there as well, were you just kind of doing it almost as a bit of a hobby? Cuz like I say, you probably weren’t breaking even. You weren’t making much money. I literally went away to make my own game better to learn from working on a daily basis with the best players in Europe and to do a bit of traveling for a couple of years and literally brand Junior came along and it’s like this lad’s a good player. You can almost make a bit of a living with it. So I stayed with it but then eventually it’s like I got offer this job as an assistant pro. I thought now that’s the direction I’m going to go in. So I said to go bit security. Yeah. I said to go and I said look go at the end of the season I’m going to pack it in. So I’m giving you six weeks notice to find a caddy for next season. And about three weeks before the end of the season, we play the German Masters and we drawn with David Fier and Sevy Balast. No way. So Sevy’s the power five was a sec the second was a power five way downhill and I was a bit spritly in them days. I walking pretty fast running down the hill and he had these spikes behind me. I turned around and it’s Sevy. He says, “What you doing next season?” I says, “I’m [ __ ] I’m retiring, mate. You can’t make any money at this game.” “No, no, no. You’re too young to retire. I’m looking for a Kelly, eh?” I all right. Okay. And I walked on. I never got in conversation with him. And I went back to my hotel that night thinking, “You’re some plonker. You basically your boy was just put it on the plate for you. Do you want to car it for me?” And I give him an answer. I’m like, “What an absolute plonker.” And at this point, like, how big is he at this point? He’s Tiger Woods. Wow. He is the tiger was of his generation. It’s like the best player that Europe’s ever seen. Absolute magician. He’s your everybody’s boy hero. Anybody over 50 years old, who’s your favorite player on earth? It was Seal. So he’s he’s established at this point when he approaches you. Absolutely. He’s won five majors. Oh my. He’s an absolute legend of the game. And it’s like, so I’m lying in bed that night thinking, right, okay, I’ll get up the next morning. So obviously no mobile phones or like that. So I wrote my name and address on a piece of paper. Ran up to the golf course. As I get there, he’s just teed off. I’ve missed him. So I thought ran up the first and he’s as he’s coming off the first green. I give him the bit of paper. I said, “Here, if you want to bring me out of retirement, you know where to find me.” Cheers mate. Buanosert Oski. And yeah, two weeks later, I got a letter uh a signed envelope se. And then open this letter. Billy, I I’ve been watching you as a caddy for a few weeks. I like your attitude as a caddy. I thought, well, that’s nice. Then they were like, no, these are my conditions. It’s like, you cannot speak to the press. You must do your own yardages. There’ll be no arguing on the golf course. It’s always good to talk after that, but you never argue on the golf like give me this absolute bollocking for the next three paragraphs. Anyway, let me know if you want the job. So, yeah, that’s how I got the job. And that that letter is still framed on me office wall at home. Wow. At that point, then would they offer you like a a contract or is it still just percentage? But obviously, you knew how good he was. there’s going to be a lot of money to be made. A Cad’s contract is basically on a holdto-hole basis. Um I’ve never had a contract with any player and you know if it’s time for the change which obviously happens or you want to change which happens occasionally but normally it’s like the player fancies a change cuz she’s a bit too honest for your own good at times but yeah you’re thrown in a ditch over other night. It’s not like I relate the job to being a football manager apart from there’s no payoff you know lasted two weeks in theory last too old. If you lost in five with seven you doing all right in the day and I lasted five years so I did all right but it finished in a massive punch up at the side of the clubhouse. Well we’ll save that save that story then just quickly let’s let’s talk about the nice things first. So what was the age gap at that point? Uh I was 25 was 33 34. Did you would you say you became friends? Yeah very much so. Yeah very much so. Yeah. And is that is that always the case with every player? I guess it’s not. Um, hey listen, you you got to learn to adapt. They’re all different level. I’ve told you they’re all different levels of psychopaths, a lot of them. So you go, you might, you know, somebody might be a three out of 10 on the psycho range. And I’ve worked for guys that are actually a 10 out of 10, you know, uh, if they want golfers be serial killers, some of them, you know, but uh, it’s been it’s been different, Rick. That’s for sure. Yeah. But you have to adapt and learn to what that player likes, that other player doesn’t like. So you you need to adapt quickly to What what did you feel were the attributes that Sebi saw in you? Uh you know I wor pretty hard in midday. You know I had a reputation for being like a bit of a Picasso. You know me drawings were pretty good cuz I was going to say was the course planners? No no no there was no a caddy had to go out and draw his own yardage book. So you literally some some caddies just draw a circle with a couple of spots on and that’s it you know. But I actually drew quite a good plan of the course. So that went down. I wor I worked hard. And you were literally pacing out yardage. Had a yardage. You had a yardage wheel. You’d actually go out with a wheel. Yeah. You had a yardage wheel. And then I had like a box uh with a with a cog on it that turned you pulled out string and it turned over as numbers in this little box that you had tied to your belt. And there were one I’ll never forget it. Now you obviously get there and you you got a shot through jungle over a lake at Sun City on the fourth one. Now the cads just go bang with the layers on 162 and they’re on to it next. Yeah, I had to tie this bit of string on a tea peg to the back of the tea. I have to s absale down this cliff. Right, I’m going through this jungle. The thing’s rustling around everywhere and I’m trying to get this bit of string cuz not much thicker than cotton really. I’m trying to get it through trees and bushes. Oh god. Honestly, I’m It was so hard and it took me forever to get through this jungle. Eventually got through over to the green round the lake. Looked at me box 162. That’s fine. Then you get really roll string up and that’s it. Like a fishing line and really sort of. Yeah. So you sort of like snip it off, roll it up, throw it in the bin. But you you had a lorded Oh yeah. took me an hour and 15 minutes to get that yardage. 1 hour 15 minutes to get one yardage. And then I found out I’d walk through a cobra pit. Oh my god. Rustling with snakes running around my feet next to this was a practice day. Obviously this was it was it was like the Monday of the before the week of the tour. Imagine if someone said to you in that time that in 20 odd years time there’s going to be lasers that do it for you. What would you have thought? Thought you’d have been mad. Crazy, isn’t it? And a watch. I watch the things it tells you. Yeah, absolutely. And you now you got your motor caddies, aren’t you? Yeah. It tells you front edge, back edge, and brilliant. It’s a completely game changer. You know, like there was like I said, there was no range balls. So you’d have your shag bag, you roll them out, you play, they like 20 or 30 players on the range all into their caddy stood out in the range and there’s other guys looking and you get caddies are getting whacked left and center from some guy hooking it 10 yards from their caddy and you’re getting whacked on head and all sorts. My gosh. So, and and I’m guessing with Sevy not being renowned as being the greatest driver of the golf ball, you had some really interesting lines. I had some tough challenges. I bet you did. I bet you did. Cuz it’s not like if you were playing, if you were cing for a player who was consistent, fairway, fair, at least when you did your yardage, you like, well, he’s going to be somewhere near here. Sevy could have been anywhere off the tea. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it were like you’d have your your yardages from either side of the fair, but then you’d have to sort of like you’d be trying to line it up where he is about 40 yards further left. I mean, some of the they’re just the best educated guess you could give at times, but you know, it worked out. And and again going back to this idea, how how did the players at that time, how dialed in were they to their numbers or was it so much more feel orientated? So much more feel. I mean the the game’s changed within all within all recognition. It’s changed massively. I mean to me it’s a game that’s been destroyed is my opinion. You know the technology the forgiveness of the drivers. Yeah. The heel it still goes 280 300 or whatever. I mean you hit a pimminar heel it went 200 220. Well we were just looking in our store then Billy said my story looks like Sevy’s garage really all these clubs and everything but the ball doesn’t move like it used to do. I mean, one of the best ball strikers I’ve ever come across was Ian Wenham, but you know, it be about right pin and heed it middle of the green with a five with a 10 yard cut and cut a shot in there to like two. It was golf on another level. The trajectory of the ball and everything was fantastic. The shot making skills were great and and now all these lads now just all bomb 300 to 350, don’t they? They just tear it up, leather it, don’t move. It’s just, you know, and drive a five iron, sit your cutting shots in, and now drive a wedges. It’s it’s But how does the game? How does the cream still rise to the to the top? Well, they don’t always do they because you know back in the day the gap between the best players and a really good player was huge and now the gap between the really best players and the good players is so much narrower. Well, that’s a good take. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it is. So, you you’ll get three winners of big tournaments. That never used to happen. Oh, really? No. So, let’s say Sevy was going in as a favorite. It a lot of the time he would end up winning that tournament. Yeah. I mean, he won 80 tournaments, didn’t he? So, wow. You know, it was uh So, just just on that, sorry, just on that. We were having a debate before myself and Rick about the whole I know it’s been done till the cows gone home, but Tiger versus Jack. I know Tiger was kind of in between those two areas maybe, but from what you’re saying, would that put Jack Nicholas at another level with how good he was back in the day with that equipment and his dominance? Yeah, Jack would be undoubtedly the the best the best talent of his of his generation doing handstands. Yeah, absolutely. As is Tiger Woods. I mean, I believe Tiger Woods, you know, from 2008 when he won the US Open with a broken leg. The next 10 years was back operations, hip operations, and knee countless knee operations, etc. If he’d have stayed fit and stayed with Butch Harmon, he’d have won 25 to 30 majors. Talking about that last week, we were talking about that on last week’s podcast and we’re like, has he will he go down and not reach his potential? 100%. It was a golf on another level. I mean Darren Clark by you know Tiger hit balls five yards behind Darren Clark on a practice ground whenever 2000 and uh Tiger Yeah. say you’re double F they used to call him double Fat something. Um fat friend. Yeah of course. Uh and Clark says have you seen that? I went seen what? He says look at that. I’m looking across. I said what do you mean? He said, “Well, he’s just at balls there for an hour.” Not a mark. Not a mark. Could have been off this table top. Like he just clipped everything. And when I worked for him that time, it was like I just found me saying no. He would only eat hitting eight irons like 165 or something. But is it in big eye draws and is it in big eye cuts, low ones, high ones? You could have thrown a duvet of a lot of them. And I just found myself going, “This guy’s on a different level.” So similar shot shaping to what you saw historically to what you saw Sevie doing what you saw in Wuen doing it like Tiger still had that with the modern equipment modern ball. It’s 25 years ago. Yeah. It’s more like the wound balls back 20 years ago. So before we get into the Tiger bit because obviously we got to dive into that. You mentioned there’s a bit of a bust up then with Sevy at the end. Yeah, there were really. Yeah. Um I think you were going a bit mad to be quite honest. Stupid little things were stand it’d be like Billy give me some tea. So I like unzip the bag. Yeah, there you go mate. Why you not got tea pegs in your pocket? You son of my [ __ ] How many times I have to tell you another like but it every little day there were another niggle, another nudge, another pork. You were like And was that was that on his search for almost perfection? No. No. He cuz his his game were dwindling. He went up and down, you know. He played great for 3 months and then he played like me for nine months and then he played great again for 3 months. I got the last dregs out of him. Won eight tournaments with him and good tournaments, PJ championship and world match play, etc. But it were like he were driving me insane and I could feel the volcano building like you know and an incident happened on the 17th at Augusta and um he wanted to hit a seven iron and I wanted to hit a six iron. It was a back left pin on the 17th and it eventually he’s gone with what I have is it this six side and it’s it’s roll past and it’s just fallen a yard off the back of the green but the pin’s right at the back left so it’s an easy chip I mean it’s like 18 ft from the hole like 20 ft max heavy ballasters straight chip back up the hill and he’s chipped it 5 foot past and you just know as a caddy they ain’t going to bail you out and I’m I’m praying like that oh please misses it well I got the biggest rollikin four times before I’d even got off the green. We walk to 18th T and he stopped here and give me another one. I’m like it’s destroying me and I’m like I’m gone now. Yeah. Thought if he has one more go on this 18th T I’m going to erupt. This is going against his things as well, isn’t it? You said in the letter originally was don’t argue on the golf. No, Billy couldn’t argue with that. You could get pelters all day long, but I allowed to reply. But anyway, so we get to 18th team. We playing with Ray Floyd and Steve Williams Tigers SC for Ray Floyd and he stops and serves me another one and I for honestly from belly I just screamed as loud as I could. They could hear me at the clubhouse. I effing heard you. All right. He went absolutely did want teed off blanked me didn’t speak to me after the round and his brother says Sey wants to see you on the range. So I went to the range and I had to go out onto the range and pace off how far his wedges were flying. So I’ve walked out 130 yards, whatever. The balls are landing and everyone that bounces up, I’m heading every one of them. 15 honestly 15 in 15 balls in a row. I edited them and he’s like, “Are you crazy? Are you crazy?” And he wears me in. Are you sure? Are you sure he’s out a little bit on this psycho scale as well? They drive you that way. That’s for sure. Yeah. I think you’re all a nine. Oh, are you? So, uh, okay, we need to talk. We’ll go to the side of the clubhouse and have a chat. And I just, all the cats and dogs came out. I just absolutely ripped him to pieces. I mean, if it had been a fight, refer a front towel in my favor after a round. Absolutely destroyed him. He’s like, Billy, I love you like my brother. I treat you like my brother. I said, well, I won’t be an effing brother. Then, would I let I killed him? And and that would like on the Wednesday. So, I still cried the masters. I kept it Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And I got home, flew back home on the Monday and as I get to me house on the Tuesday morning, I’m opening the back door of my little terrace house walking and the phone’s ringing and it was Joe Colette Sey’s manager. Billy, you are no longer required. Okay, fair enough. But he wanted me to come back a couple of months later, but I’d moved on with Darren Clark then who was 25year-old and an up andcoming Studlack. So yeah, obviously stay with Darren, but Wow. What what um Wow. There’s an iconic shot that I know obviously you were part of with Sevy, but what what is the most iconic shot that you witnessed? Oh, it’s from behind the wall. It’s the greatest golf shot that’s ever been it. I mean, it’s mental for me. Talk talk us through it. Well, to have the imagination to play that shot. I mean, he was the thing is he was five shots off the lead with six holes to play and he birded five holes in a row. 13 to 17. Birded them all. So, he’s he’s tied for the lead stood on the last T and he’s blocked it 30 yards right. It’s a dog leg right into the No, it’s dead straight, but it’s a sloping fairway. So, it’s not like blocked and it ran down the hill and finished behind a wall that’s it’s 8 foot high concrete wall and over the top of the wall was just fur trees and the greens. You can’t see you can’t see anything. You’re just totally blocked out. So, I’m like, “Yeah, just yeah, it’s dead. Chip it out sidewards, mate.” No, no, no, Billy. I I think I see the shot there. I’m like, “What? You’ve lost the block, mate.” I said, “Just chip it out sideways. You can wedge it on the green cylate bar in the to No, no, no, Billy. You see this?” and he’s pointing up above the wall. I’m thinking he can’t get it over the wall to start with. But then about 7:00 over the top of the wall, there’s a there’s a [ __ ] of daylight in one of the trees about the size of a dinner plate. Oh, no. I think I see this. Go get the yardage. I’m like, you’ve lost. So, I’ve walked outside on my kids life to this day. I never got a yardage. I just looked up went 140. I did honestly. What’s the point in getting a yardage? So, I walked by said 140. Okay. Give me the pitching. Yeah. Like I said, look, I know you’re se ballasters, but you’re not effing Paul Daniel. Just chip it out, will you? Why I listen to you? Why you put doubt in my mind, you son of my [ __ ] I have the shot. You’re the caddy. Go away. I play the shot. Honestly, I’ve walked other side of fairway cuz if it is the wall and it’s me too shortly, let me get out of it. But if it clips any of those trees, it drops the other side of the wall. It’s in a swimming pool out of bounds. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like mental. What you thinking of? And I’m I’m I’m just thinking, well, I’m going to as a typical Yorksman, I’m see thinking about me percentage money is going to go swan diving here. What is he second place at this point? It’s he’s tied for the lead. Tied for the lead. Okay, he’s tied for the lead. And um I’ve gone over the other side of the fairway looking across the fairway and I I see all this dust fly up. I thought I hit the wall and I don’t any trees and then I see it. It’s coming out now. It’s top of your slight going over a Jean Claude on top at diving board at swim. Then there were four 80ft pine trees about 40 yards short of the green. As it’s going over them, I thought this is I’m actually witnessing the best golf shot that’s ever been seen. Never mind pulling it off. To have the imagination to see it in the first place and it landed a yard short the green. So it just goes to show if I give him the right yardage, you might have knocked it off and then he chipped it in for a birdie and I had to get down on me hands and knees bowing to him. You are Jesus Christ of Balis. You are the king. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it was it was amazing. Yeah. Oh, I’ll tell you another one. I’ll tell you another one. I can’t believe I did this. So I’m carrying for him at St. Melon and he’s leading the tournament on the last hole and he’s got a two-shot lead over Nick Faldo and Gary O. So the pin shrunk left over the water and I’ve got the yardage 184 m which is like 202 yards and I thought right on his limit for a five iron this and if he hits a five iron and he misses any of it it’s in the water he’ll lose a tournament. I’m thinking just here. And was he meters or yards? He was meters. Yeah. So 184 meters. I’m thinking just here. The sensible thing to me cuz the water’s front left. Just hit the right edge of the green three point and win the tournament. But that’s not how it works. You know he’s going to go at it. Says Billy, how far we have? I said he got 190 m, mate. I give him six yards more. Okay. What do you think? I said it’s just a smooth four iron, mate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s okay. Smooth for iron. Yeah. gets a four iron out and flushes it straight over the flag out of bounds over the green. Oh, no he didn’t. No, it actually finished about six or seven yards past the old. So if I give him the right number, he might have stiffed it. But I thought I took the defensively like 18 to 20 foot past the only two put it to him by two shots. But and as we’re in the fair, I went I said I g you the wrong yard his head on purpose. He was not happy. He was not happy. I can’t believe I did it. But it worked out well. Are you surprised you told him? Wow. I can’t believe I did it in the first place. There’s not a chance I’d do that now. That’s mental. Yeah, it was mental. Yeah. And then you mentioned obviously working with Sean went to Darren Clark. You were Darren for a number of years. Yeah, I did about 10 years. A little little sbatical in the years you do, but little after four years then came back for another six or whatever it was. I remember that was a stark contrast between obviously cading with Sevy because I’m I’m guessing the attention that Sevy got as you played as well was almost tiger like you almost your crowd management needed to be pretty good as well. Yeah, 100%. And it’s amazing if you could, you know, if you could take Don Clark’s ball striking in iron player and let Sevy chip and put and have Sevy’s head, he’d have probably won 20 m. Clark were that good to Green. It was incredible. You know, unfortunately for Darren nicked an open right the death of his career at 42 years old and uh if he had a woman, it would have been a travesty as as were Lee, you know, how and Monty how they’ve not woman’s incredible, but uh Black was a serious golfer. And what what was that transition like then working with him? How did that contrast? Was it was it a totally different relationship? Cuz you said then he was younger than you. Did that kind of play into that a little bit as well? Yeah, a little bit. I think like he it was different because you work for Sevy and you work for Sergios and people like that and the they’re in control of their own game and such. Damn. Uh, honestly, I need a bit first to admit I used to do everything but actually at the shot for him and I like a guide dog. I literally talk him through everything really. Where to land in with chipping, right? You know, to chip this with a pitching where you need to land it four yards on the green, it’s going to break 15 foot left to right and be like, “Right, right. Okay. I used to read every pretty much just every shot.” And how how did you how did you know all that? I know it sounds like a d question, but you know, you’re you played at a good standard, but you never played on tour. Like, how did you how did you have that confidence to say to Darren Clark, “This is the shot you’ve got to try and play.” Was that the experience you picked? You’ve just had five years of the best education any golfer could ever give you. So, you must you paint a picture. Even to this day, if I play golf now, I paint a picture in my own mind of what Sevid see. I I see shots that maybe I can’t pull them off, but but I see I see it and I go for it and yeah, it’s it’s a totally different way of thinking, but it’s ingrained in you. Did that totally change your mindset about cading after cading with Sevy? Was like was it was it did it ever become a question mark to go I’m going to do five years with Sevy and then go and get the job back at the golf club or or after that five years were you like right I now know I want to be a caddy for the rest of my life? After that five years, I knew that the game had gone to another level and then at that stage Jesus came along in Tiger and uh the goal post completely just changed. Moved to decimal decimal dot. He did. Yeah, he changed the game completely. So if you had a top player all of a sudden, hang on a minute, you can make serious money at this game now. So obviously you stayed at it. Just one question I wanted to ask about was Darren Clark which I think is is one of the most inspirational things I’ve ever seen was obviously his wife died very young and you were carrying for him at the time I believe and then he obviously played the ride a couple. It was the month after his wife passed away, 39 years old. That must have been a very traumatic experience, but also one that we’ve obviously had this experience last month with the Ryder Cup and some negativity, but the moments that people shared with him then was so special. That must have been an incredible experience. You know, Caddy for 43 years and people say to what’s your most special thing that’s ever happened to you in golf and people would expect me to say, we’re winning the US Open with Fitz when you thought you were never going to win one, but it ain’t. It’s that moment with Dan and Clark. Six weeks I went to Heather’s funeral. Clark has left with two young lads, probably six and four years old, whatever Tyrone and Connor were. And I got a phone call 3 weeks after the funeral. Billy, how you doing, Darren? You’re all right. Uh I want to ask you a question. Uh Wuzzy, the captain has just formed me to um see if I’ll accept a wild card to play in the RDER Cup. What do you think? And I just said, well, Clark, I said, obviously it’s unbelievably traumatic circumstances this. I said, “If you’re asking me if your game’s good enough to play, you’re still playing great golf. You’re good enough to play.” Um, but the one thing I’ll say to you is you got to get ready. Are you ready for this incredible atmosphere and the unbelievable emotion you’re going to go through? No, I admire the world’s looking at you. I said, “The one thing I will say is what Heather would want. Heather would want you to play and win it for her.” Like, so I’ll leave you with that thought. And anyway, couple of days later, Fback, Billy decided to play. I’m like, “Are you for real?” like felt like fair player to him. So you get there on the Monday getting the likes of Tiger and Phil Mickelson all that tears genuine tears but you know make no bones about you walk to that fifth tea that first tea on on the Friday for the first match they ain’t going to give a toss about Darren Clark they want a point for America that’s professional sport you accept that and I walked to the tea a minute in front of Darren uh to get a few last minute things you know a bit water food wet the towel get the pin tree get the bib on etc I walked onto the middle of the table like walking onto this tabletop here and I felt like Wembley Stadium were built around me. Every person stood up. They’re all stamping their feet in the crowd singing all I’m getting goosebumps now. It’s 19 years ago. And I just thought, “Oh my god, how is he going to hit this opening T-shot?” Cuz I just had a vision of myself hitting a foot behind it, Swiss rolling the divot just enough to and the the opening T-shot. He he walked on there. I’ll tell you, Concord could have flown over that first T. You would have heard it. It was incredible. And I started crying. I’ve never cried on a golf course in my life. Even when Thomas Bejorn left in that bunker three times I didn’t cry, but I found myself crying. I thought you poor sod t-shirt. And he bombed it 310 8 to 8 foot on medie. Crazy. And he birded the last hole to win the match against Phil Mickelson and Christian Marker who were pretty much their strongest team. Anyway, in the afternoon he brought in Monty to play with Westwood and Clark. He took the afternoon off, but then the next morning we’re playing Tiger Woods and Mr. Burns, Jim Furick against against Clark in Westwood. Oh yeah. So yeah. So anyway, first three walls it like six foot the first, seven foot the second, six foot the third, four foot the fourth, five foot the fifth. It was brilliant golf Westwood that he missed every chance there like Clark is all over place. Was he? Oh it shanking it. I mean he was struggling with his game. So I just thought I need to do the right thing here. You just know when you’re working with somebody 30 weeks a year, seven days a week, 10 hours a day, you know him better than you know your misses. You know what he’s thinking. Yeah. I thought he’s not the races here. I need to protect him. Yeah. But I’ve need to protect the team to be honest for the team’s sake. That’s what I’m thinking. So after the ninth all Jesus misses one from about two and a half foot. So Clark would two up two up. Jesus and Mr. Burns. Yeah. So anyway, I see Peter Baker was his assistant captain. I said BS come here. What is it? I said, “Just let Buzzy know Westwood is playing like God. Dad Clark’s playing like me.” And all right, I’ll get the message back. Long story short, Clark chips in on the 16th. They win the match three and two. Great victory. But now I’m stood on the range. I don’t know who’s playing in the afternoon. See the Giant scoreboard. Donald Garcia. Match number three, Westwood. Montgomery. No sign of Clarky. Thought, “Oh, he’s got the message.” Anyway, the afternoon game’s tea off and Clark comes out. It’s a few balls with Darth Vader, Pete Cowan, and uh he turns to me. This is great. Ride Cup captain was about as bright as 2:00 in the morning. Thanks, W cuz Clark turns says, “Did you say something to Wuzy?” No. Well, I didn’t. I said to Peter Baker. He said, “Well, that’s funny cuz Wuzzy just called to me and said, “Dad, I’m really sorry you’re not playing this afternoon, but Billy says you’re playing absolute sh.” Oh my gosh. Oh my god. He threw me under the bus like Clark, he did not speak to me all day completely blankly. May as well been dead. I had to walk into the locker room on the Sunday morning for the singles. I said, “Clark, help me out.” At least you’re playing today. Yeah. At least I’m still there. Yeah. No, at least at least Clark is playing on the Sunday. Yeah. Yeah. I said, “Clark,” I said, “What I did yesterday?” I apologize. I thought I did it for the benefit yourself and the benefit of the team. I said, “If you want to sack me, sack me. Let’s get out of there. Win your match against Sack Johnson. Let’s win it forever. Let’s win the Ryder Cup. Then he can sack me. Come on, let’s go.” And I walked out and four hours later, he’d done all those things. And I would rugging him in tears on 16th green. And he won the Ry Cup. And and yeah, it was that will be my most special memory in golf for Caddy till I 180. Like jeez. Yeah, it was amazing. You love to ride a Cut, don’t you? Yeah, I’ve been there 16 of them. It’s been a massive part of me uh well, it’s been everything. Massive part of my career. Are you the the the cad that’s cadded for the mo in the most rider cups? Yeah. Yeah. There’s nobody. I mean, I think Fluff might have done 12. Wow. Um European wise, I don’t think anybody’s done more than eight really. Wow. You’ve done 16. Yeah. Well, 15 as a car and one as a vice assistant type. Yeah. Oh, that’s wild. And for Clark, Westwood, I did two with Bran Junior, two with Sevy, um about five with Clarky, couple with Westy, one with uh Sen Hansen. Um cuz Scotchy, God bless you, Scotch, who passed away yesterday. Um he couldn’t caddy. So I had to he was injured so I had to caddy for him. And then um two three fits was it? Uh yeah, three two with it. So I think I can’t remember that’ be three. That’s wild. You know when we hear a lot about obviously that that certainly with Luke this last couple of cups about how much of a team they are and how much they do together. What’s it like for the Caddies? Do you form a big bond with the other Caddies as well? Is that something that you don’t see kind of as much? But are you guys all really tight? Yeah, it’s it’s brilliant. It’s a great team environment. Um, you know, you you’re in that that that team room and and you had a band of brothers together and I’ve actually been in the other one when I carried for Tiger in the President’s Cup and the Caddies and the players were in two different trailers like Oh, really? totally different. Totally different. Do you think that’s what the USA team is like? Like do do you see the US team that the Caddies and the and the players are very separate? Uh, no. I think it’s a bit different now. I think they they’re trying to get on the same wavelength, but the the team spirit, the the songs and and the carrying on the the you know the the camera, the taking basically it’s on a different level and and if you could go in that team environment inside that locker room at certain moments it’s it’s something to die for to see whether it be all the lads singing and carrying on together or whether it be Shane Lowry stood on the table shouting and screaming what we’re going to do tomorrow and all that after Hackgate and and all that and Paul and Garcia and like chirping up and shouting and I bet you’ve seen some stuff. I bet you’ve seen some stuff. It’s fly on the wall stuff. It really is. It’s It’s amazing. Who do you feel might have been Sevy, but who who’s the most passionate Ryder Cup player? It’s not even close. Sevy. Not even close. Lunatic. I mean, they I mean there obviously like Madina that was soon after Sevy passed. Like they all had the Sevy logo on the sleeve. Like they did it for Sevy the 2012. Yeah, it was uh listen the rider cups changed obviously because the modern day players most of them live in America. Yeah. Uh they play the PJ tour so they’re with the lads all the time. But going back to the 80s when it was the European tour of Sevi, Langanger, Luzy, um Faldo, whatever against it was it was European European tour against the PJ tour. It was Sevi honestly was pure and utter hatred. hatred with a capital H that he could land an helicopter on it. Honestly, he despised him. Wow. Oh yeah. Did the whole thing with the course make more of a difference then as well? Because obviously they talk now about the the setup of the course, but as you said, most of the guys in the US team, all of them pretty much play in the States anyway. Doesn’t feel like it’s that much of an advantage now, but back then in those days was that such a big thing for the Europeans travel to America and plays different grasses, different grains, etc. Yeah, listen, it’s you, like I said, all the L now play on that PJ tour all the time now, so they’re used to it. But like, you know, back in the day when you’re playing German Opens and Scandinavian Masters and French Opens and stuff, it’s more to adapt to to to playing over there. First time I went to Mfield Village, first time in America, first Ry Cup, 1987, the coach pulled into the car park and I’m looking across and I’m thinking, what’s all these little greens? How pristine? What are all these little greens? Found out where the te’s honestly coming from West Yorkshire to go into there. I mean even European tour courses were in poor condition relatively like but I mean yeah all these little greens with tease it were just pristine. I I have gone on record saying and I’d love to know your take on this. I think USA players should have USA caddis and I think European players should have only European caddies. What’s your take? Well, that’s their choice, but I’ve I’ve gone on record and I’ll say it again. There’s not a chance on earth I would caddy for American in a Ryder Cup. Not a chance. What’s it like for American caddies who carry for Europeans? Well, there’s quite a few of them, doesn’t it? I mean, the last Ryder Cup, you had uh Julia that works for Septraker. He’s American. And you had Joe that caddies for Lovevig. Yeah. He’s American. So, John Ramscott. John Ramadi. Yeah. Three of them. Like it’s infiltrators. It’s bizarre, isn’t it? Like what what do they how do they listen? Their take on it is that’s my boss. I’m working for my boss wherever he goes. Which I admire personally or chance. I mean there were rumors years ago that I heard it from five press guys. Billy get ready. Tiger was going to ask you to work for him. I’m like oh no we know he’s asking you. I’m like so you starts going through your head. What would you do? It’s like Colin Moric they see I work for Colin at the Scottish in the open. Well, just imagine if he wins the open and says, “Billy, do you want to carry for me the rest of your year?” I’d have said, “Well, yeah, that’d be nice, but I can’t do the rider cup. I’ve got that week off.” Yeah. Would you genuinely would You seem that you mean that, but genuinely, do you mean that that you wouldn’t caddy? So, if you got the job with Colin this year and he said at the Ryder Cup, you wouldn’t entertain it for that week. You’d have to get somebody else in. 100%. Wow. Fair. I could never do it. I am like the Rder Cup is in it’s my been my life. It’s in me blood. So to like to turn turn court and go and carry for that I’ll be I’ll be giving wrong is on purpose like read this book right li about six inches outside the left m honestly I can’t do it. No. Do you think there should be a rule that you should have a European caddy? No I don’t. No you don’t. No. Wellever the players happy with fine. It’s just a personal thing of mine that I couldn’t do it. So coming on to then the the time well you picked up on a few things there. the time you caddied for Jesus in the President’s Cup and the time you were almost m tipped to be caddying for him full-time. Let’s let’s start with the present cup first. How did that all come about? Um I was at Acron Ohio for the Bridgestone tournament cing for Darren Clark. Tiger comes along, starts chatting to Darren Clark, walks away and about 2 minutes later Clark he turns around and says, “You know what that were all about?” I went, “No, what?” He said, “Well, Tiger’s come across and Steve Williams’s wife’s having a baby and he wants somebody to carry for a week and he says he wants you to work for him.” He just asked me if it’s all right. I went, “Really?” He says, “What you going to do?” I says, “I don’t know.” And Wes is in balls at the side of him, turns around and said, “Hey, Billy, if you don’t work for him, I will.” Good point, Lee. Good point. So, obviously when I shook his hand, love to do it, mate. And uh but it were funny really cuz after a couple of weeks after a couple of weeks I didn’t I heard a few rumors a few of the American caddies weren’t happy about a European going to caddy for Tiger in the President’s Cup and I went where where was it? It was in uh Virginia, right? So it was a home it was a home rally cup for them. A home president America Washington. Um so I went to Target a few weeks later next time I saw him I said Tiger I understand there’s a bit of unrest in the camp. They don’t want me to carry for you. He just went, “F them, Billy. You’re carrying.” I went, “All right, mate. Fair enough.” Yeah, but it was uh it was like winding the clock back to the seven days of there’s only two people I’ve ever worked for where you feel that aura and the excitement of the crowd everywhere they go. It’s like, “Wow, this is like another level, you know.” And um yeah, walking through that crowd, you know, the noise levels were just a joke. Screaming and shouting and carrying and pen marks all over him at on sideways. like right I’m I need to get out of here. My ears were bleeding and we walked up to the first tea that was set back on its own. Nobody there apart from me. And he walks on the T. I remember stopping him saying, “Ter got to tell you something. You might be have any woman in the world you want. You might be a billionaire and go down the best ever golfer that’s ever played the game, but I won’t swap your lives.” And he went and that Billy at least somebody understands what I have to go through. That’s why I don’t play. I said I get it. Yeah. People don’t give him don’t cut him any slack for that. I couldn’t live his life. Well, it’s just non-stop into just literally everywhere he goes. Everywhere you go in a steak restaurant, you chop it into your steak and it’s like, “Oh, can I have a selfie? Can you sign this on me? Can I finish my steak first?” Like, you know, it’s it’s got to be so difficult. Well, we we’ve I think we’ve talked about this on the podcast before like would you swap lives like Mr. Burns? Would you rather be Mr. Burns, Jim Furick, or Tiger Woods? And it’s like there is a bit of a debate there potentially. Well, you know, uh Mr. You might not have said Mr. Burns. I I’ll call him Jim. He’s a lovely fellow. Gentleman Jim is a gentleman. And um I don’t know. You look it up. Jim’s probably won $75 million on tour. Like, you know, he’s done all right. Like and and nobody will ask him. He’ll go pushing his trolley around sainsburries and nobody will b an eyelid like you know they’d have to close the store if Tiger were walking down, won’t they? It’s wild, isn’t it? So yeah, I’ll probably have Jim’s record. So you caddy for him at the President’s Cup. What was that relationship like? Yeah, it was great. Really good. Obviously, you I won’t lie to you, you know, first first day or so, you’re a little bit apprehensive because, you know, it’s this is the chosen one, you know, and it’s like, but once that first few hours are gone, I like just another fellow like, you know, but I thought his manners were the one thing that stood out to me. Absolutely impeccable. Please and thank you for everything. And that that I like that. Yeah, of course class. And he was struggling with his game a little bit, but still showed me enough to go, “Oh my god, how good is this for? This is another level.” There were two instances we got on the first tea and the bunker was like 290 off the tea and uh he said what do you think Bill? I said just like you know two iron down there it’ll finish about 20 yard that bunker. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to try driver like but driver like 300 but we’re going back 20 years drive bunker were like 307 yards or something into the breeze and he flew it over comfortably. I’m like, “Oh my god.” Cuz Clark it back at the time with a big hitter and back then Clark could be eating it. Probably carrying it 275. Yeah. Just getting into the front edge of that bunker. Oh, he might not reach it and he’s flown it. I’m like, “Oh my god.” And then we got on another all the 11th and um he told me how far he is his clubs. It’s a wedge 142. Right. So we get to the 11th. It’s like 5 yards uphill into the wind from the right. 144 or something. Uh, what do you like, Billy Wedge? I went, no. I said, that’s just a nice little soft N. You know, he’s he’s playing he’s probably playing over 150 that, you know, he’s in he’s saying he’s in a wedge 142. Yeah, I know what you’re saying, but I just want to step on one here. I went, okay, a wedge to 6 in. I says, “How’s that work out then? You say a wedge 142 and you basically it’s probably playing 155 really.” He said, “Oh, don’t worry about I’ve got another gear when I need it. I went.” Yeah. And like when you were in that presence and when you when you walking around with him and walking the fairways, like are you chatting to him? Like you trying to keep his mind off it? Was he very different to other players you work with? No, just just another fellow, mate. That’s it. You know, he’s just, you know, you cut him and blood comes out, believe it or not. He’s just just a normal fellow. And yeah, and when I’m out there, I I try to be serious for that one minute that you have to be, but apart from that, you be talking all sorts of rubbish, like, you know, you know, that bird’s knockers over there or whatever. It’s like all sorts of rubbish, you know? It’s like, yeah. So, I got them really well. Ryan’s telling me a few stories, having a laugh in between shots and that. It was It was good fun. Enjoyed it. Was this post toilet gates? No, it was after Toilet Gate because Toilet Gate was 2002 and I think that’s why I got the job for the President’s Cup. Not cuz I’m a good caddy because I saved his bacon at the Ryder Cup. You heard this? No. This is such a great story. Go on, Billy. Give us this. Give us give us the time when you saved Tiger’s bacon. Yeah, it was Ryder Cup 2002. First match, first morning was Dan Clark and Thomas Bjorn playing Tiger Woods and Paul Lasinger. So Clark’s done his practice up to the putting green quart to eight first tea time 8:00. So I’ve said to Clark I said Clarky pre-match nerves the old flock of seagulls are flapping. I said I need to go for a Tom Kite. I’ll be back in a minute. Right Billy off you go. So I go into the toilet says CBY Davis love the turns caddies in there and uh morning cubby. Morning Billy. So I sit down trolley around the ankles look across. Oh my god no toilet paper. Full reverse across a corridor to trap two. Sit down. Look behind me. 20 rolls of toilet paper on shelf behind. Next minute, spikes on the bathroom floor. Morning cubby. Morning target. Bang. Trap one where I’ve just come from. I’m like, “Oh.” And then I’m listening. I hear the little crackle. Oh, that’s chaos there. That’s chaos right there. Now I’m using the excess toilet paper. I’m drying my eyes cuz I’m crying, crying cuz like there’s six minutes to tea off here now or something like that and I’m the only man in the world that knows that Jesus is in there with no toilet paper and I’m crying wiping the tears cuz I’ve just got this vision of him walking the fifth floor of the day baldle legged like like John wearing the shot of his horse with a pair of underpants resembling a Japanese flag. I thought I started laughing then he had a little sigh. I thought I can’t do it to him. So I’ve gone back rolled up about 20 sheets and I’ve gone down on my hands and knees under his toilet door and they got it about [ __ ] mad don’t have been the end of god I’ll tell you this were the under god for tiger wood I’m under the toilet door and whoever’s in there you might be needing this as I walked out went you’re one up and sure enough beating one up and uh and he came out with the biggest smile on his face said you owe me a big time tiger went Billy I owe you big time I think that’s why I got the job that’s unbelievable that is unbelievable I mean that’s what that’s such a with these players that you obviously tie you’ve carried for and know him like if you see him at an an event next year god hope he’s ever at an event again after these extra surgeries we don’t know but like do you still have chats with him and and reminisce about these times not so much a reminisce but we have a mutual respect and give each other a big hug and how you doing as a family all that stuff yet oh that’s incredible yeah it’s great I think there was a handful of players obviously over the you know when we look at history and I was a little bit too late to really understand the whole Sevy era. I can respect it but I wasn’t alive. But obviously for me growing up Tiger is the absolute man and you look back at people like Sevy and the Jack Nicholas Gary players etc. There’s you know those 10 12 players over the last 100 years or so who’ve absolutely changed the game and you’ve obviously carried for for two of those. So it’s incredible. When um when the rumors were starting to spread about you potentially being asked to by Tiger to be Caddy, what what happened there? Uh, first of all, nothing came of it in the end, but I’d made my mind up what we were going to do in the ONED because I was working for Lee Westwood at the time. Same wavelength, same sense of humor. Loved working for Lee. Number three or four in the world. I I would have stayed with Lee. Really? Yeah, that would would have been a big call, but I was prepared to stay with Westy. And then you you had again you’ve had a few spells with Wester more recently just last year ending the season. You live for three weeks time I saw us. It was nice to see you. Um I want to come back. Find me a job. Well I remember I remember when uh was that this season just finished? Yeah. You did the last three events was it? Yes. Right. Um Chicago, Detroit and Michigan. Um when you were working with Westwood, how long was that the for the original stint? How long was that stint for? Uh I did 2009 to 200 midway through 2012 I snapped the crucet ligament. Uh and I had to have 15 months to get back to work. So yeah, I disappeared for probably 18 months. Lee got another car. Um and eventually I went back at the end of 2013. You very much seem like you’re on the same wavelength as you mentioned. No, it’s if you out of all the people I work for, who would you say you enjoyed the most? I think it’ be Westy to be quite honest. Yeah. What did you like working with? What do you like most about working with Weston? Just we just sang off the same interview and had that both had that sick sense of humor that you could have have a laugh at any very dry very dry humor both of you. Yeah, I I loved it. It were great times and and he got to number one in the world putting like Edward Scissorand. Would you say obviously I know it sounds ridiculous to say but you’ve worked with Sevy Tiger etc. You know how good Putin is and you mentioned there that obviously Lee’s Putin really let him down. Was it was it really bad? No. Wesley He really good putter in the 90s before I worked for him. But when I worked for him when he got to world number one, he still put it nicely. He But he hit it so close so often. It’s a bit Scottish Shefflerish of a couple of years ago. You know, it was like and and and I actually relate Scotty to to Westwood now. It’s like the distance control of them two players are the the finest I think I’ve ever seen. It’s a joke now how Scottish effer keeps it to like five foot 10 foot every westy will like that his distance control I could tell you when westy hit a shot 20 yards off the club face I could tell that’s I could go and throw a blanket on the green where it’s going to finish cuz he was that good that consistent what cuz the amount of times on a Thursday Friday he was leading a major tournament yeah it was Sunday afternoons that just couldn’t quite all the puts when it mattered And some people did incredible things like Mikkelson at Mickelson at the 2010 Masters. Wesie was leading and playing great. Mickelson hit 20 yards left in the trees off eight. Hit it 40 yards right off nine in the trees. He hit it 20 yards right in the trees on 10. Hit it 20 yards right on the trees on 11. Then drove it through the fair in the trees on 13 where he played the incredible shot. and he played that stretch of two under par. Anybody else would have been three over and that turned that masters. Wow. Would have won that. What obviously I get chance to chat to Westian but you know it’s always a difficult conversation to ask a player directly. Do you feel like he not regrets but do you feel like there’s that that he should have had four or five majors? Um you know I think Lee’s pretty cool with that. you know, I think he’s he’s had a great career. Uh 10 11 Rider Cups. He’s he’s been a stalwart. He’s been a fantastic player. One order of merit couple of times, maybe three. Um yeah, listen, deep down, I don’t think he’d ever say it, but it’s got to be in your gut thinking, you know, I could have had a couple there. And and it’s he could have had four or five when I were working for him. He just things just get ripped away or he just missed the puts at the wrong times. But um it’s got to be in there somewhere that it it does hurt a bit, but it won’t let affect him at all. What’s that like as a caddy? You walk off that green on on a Sunday and and another major tournament slipped away. Like how do you console the player? Is that your role? Do you do you have that little quiet time with the player or do you let managers, family, etc. How does that work? Go and have about 10 beers and get over it quickly, right? You know, I mean, listen, drink your sorrows. Listen, I’ve shed a tear at times walking away from uh Turbury, you know, when he three-pointed the last hole. Um Darren Clark, he double B the 17th at Lithm. Um it beats you up, you know, it beats you up for a couple of hours. Apart from the Thomas Bjorn one that I was going to say, tell us about that one. That beat me up for 6 months. I mean, I thought about it every day for 6 months. Broke me out. Paul St. Georgees. Pro St. George’s. Yeah. He left it in a bunker the first round on the 17th. Hit the sand in anger and as he came out he said, “Can I believe I did that?” I said, “Can’t believe you did what?” He said, “Just made double borgi there.” I said, “Well, he just hit the sand in anger. It’s a two- shot penalty, so it’s an eight. He made an eight the first round and he still led by three with fours to play.” And I’ve been out in the morning looking at the pins and um I knew you’d like six foot to the right of the flag and it was a graveyard or you’d have a Kent to the left. So I said just TV tower middle of the green Thomas 30 ft no one else. Yeah, no problem. And there were a bit of a delay and we’re waiting for the group in front. Anyway, he hit the shot and it ended up going straight at the flag and I the ball had gone off the end of the tea and I just I’m screaming myself and no no cuz I knew where it were going and it bounced down and finished in the bunker. took him three to get out in his footprints. Borged 17 lost by a shot and it’s like oh my god and as I’m walking out all I can think of Peter Dawson and the winner of the gold medal Ben Curtis. I’m like what Ben Curtis and then it hit me like oh my god that the longest six-hour drive back to Yorkshire I’ve ever had. I thought about it for six months. Yeah, it broke my heart. What would you what what could could you have done anything different? I couldn’t have. No, I couldn’t have done anything. I’d said the right things what you needed to do. It’s just, you know, it just didn’t happen. Not that they should, but the players ever apologized to the caddy because they obviously know how much it means to you guys as well to win and obviously to win the prize, money, your percentage, etc. Have you ever had where a players messed up and said, “I’m sorry.” Yeah, I have actually. But yeah, I’ll keep that to myself. But yeah, they do get an odd one that I’m really sorry about. you know, I’m built on it. You know, it’s they obviously, I’m guessing, sometimes you build these friendships with the guys, know your wife or your family, whatever, and they know that 5% of X is a lot more than 5% of Y. And if if you’re not getting that whether they feel responsible, but it’s interesting that they that has happened before. They have said it’s definitely happened. Yeah, things do happen. It’s you get emotional out there, don’t you? And it’s things happen. And it’s sometimes you there’s one thing about golf. You got to get used to the huge disappointments that’s going to come your way because even Jack Nicholas said you’re going to have more bad days than good days on the golf course. And when you try to win tournaments and you’re in contention a lot, guess what? You don’t win very often, but you [ __ ] up a lot. Not not necessarily make a mess of it, but you lose and it hurts and the mood swings. It’s honestly the mood swings are horrendous. Do you think sometimes that caddies can be a bit of a scapegoat? Because obviously you can have good caddies, you can have bad caddies. Of course you can. And you obviously are a good caddy, hence why you’ve done it for so long and so successfully. But I don’t know anything about Cadian. It’s no secret. No, they don’t. You do. But I I felt before um before Rory managed to win the green jacket and obviously finished that career grand slam that obviously Harry Diamond was getting a bit of flak, which again I know nothing, but I felt that was quite uncalled for because he’s done a lot of good for Ror. He’s obviously his friend. He must know what he’s doing. We even saw some signs before Tommy finally got his hands on a PJ tour win that Finno was getting a little bit of flack from some parts of the media. Do you feel that he’s uncalled for? Yeah, it’s uncalled for. Listen, at the end of the day, we all know if it’s left or right, it’s the coach’s fault. If it’s long or short, it’s a cad’s fault. End of. It’s never the player’s fault. Yeah. But yeah, I’ve always defended Harry. I think he’s got a lot of unnecessarily abuse as such really. U’s a plus two golfer. He’s a good player. He’s been ruled his best mates into an at 8 years old. Um he respects him. He won’t be scared to tell him what he thinks and he’s a good caddy. You know there’s certainly you there you can think of two or three instances well he should have done that he should have done that but Roy is his own boss in a way and you know Rory will do what he wants to do at the end of the day he’s he’s he’s always been a a positive player and going for things you know um but that’s not Harry’s fault you know Harry does a really good job do do you think with what you said which I didn’t realize uh until earlier in this conversation about how much cad has changed obviously back 20 years ago maybe 25 years ago what you had to have so many more skills than whereas Now it can be a little bit more prescribed as yardage books. Do you think there will be more of this resurgence of friends becoming caddies or like obviously Lee West had his wife on quite famously. Is that something that’s more possible now do you think than maybe it would have been 20 years ago? 100%. 100%. I mean like I said, you know, back in the day getting the string out and drawing your own yardage book, you relied heavily on your caddy. Yeah. You know, you were the you the rally drivers navigator and they had to listen to everything you done because you’d done the homework. So a caddy was brought so much more value 20, 30, 40 years ago. But now you rock up. I could turn up at a golf tournament tomorrow. Get the yardage book. I mean the yardage book is incredible and it shows you pictures, runouts, elevation changes, what TV tower to aim at. Yeah. I mean it’s incredible. You could I could turn a golf tour to and not really have to walk the golf course and I could I could carry blind basically. You’ve got you’ve got a satnav in your pocket basically. Hence and and obviously on certain tours and I think it’s only a matter of time for the PJ tour you’ll be able to allow to use lasers because you can use on ladies tour and live tour and you know Asian tour I think. Uh so it’s only a matter of time for you you use your laser and you got all this information that’s bulletproof. So all of a sudden the caddy it’s not as important as it used to be you know cuz hence seeing more mates relatives brothers in a different way though like it’s not as important maybe the numbers wise but maybe having that calming word like you said talking about things in between shots I mean bit more humorous knowing obviously your player as well it must have a different level of importance I guess I don’t know so much you know if you’re talking to you it’s like if Wes is talking to Ellen they’ll talk about well I’m fat tonight or what do you think of these nails or whatever it don’t matter does it you can talk about anything you know and you might be a brother and you talk about certain things. Just cuz it’s your caddy, it’s Yeah, you’re still going to talk. Yeah. You know, whatever you’re going to talk about, it’s it’s down to making that big decision at that time. I always remember Tom Watson saying you win tournaments by limiting your mistakes. Not by the glory shot or the glory club, limit your mistakes. So there is that angle of over a 12-month period does that caddy bring that little bit more value which I would say yes but over the course of a week if that player’s playing well and he’s got all this information he could have his granny pull in a trolley and he’ll win. Yeah. With all your experience who would you put on your Mount Rushmore of caddies? Uh well the two lads I looked up to when I um started was Dave Mosgrove who ced for Sandy L and Pete Coleman who cared for Bernard Langer. So they would be my two like these are the daddies. I’ll listen to what they say and you learn off them you know and then two more spots. Two more spots. Um well I’m a big believer of what makes a good caddy and the answer is a good player. So I think caddies are overrated. I’d never judge myself as a caddy and I wouldn’t really judge other people like you know people will probably say Steve Williams who’s a really positive character and Steve would be up there for me but you know I think there’s a lot of caddies out there that do great jobs that haven’t had that look that somebody else has had. You know there’s certain caddies out there have worked for top players. I won’t say they’re particularly good caddies. There’s a lot of ladders down there that never had the opportunity to work for them particular players. So yeah, I think Gary’s um I never try to rate him to be quite honest because you’re only as good as your player at the end of the day. Would you put yourself on No. No. Absolutely not. No. Somebody else wants to put me that’s all right but nowhere. Never. What um what what attributes then? Let’s say a young listener now is listening and they want to get into cadding. What are the three things that you feel like they they have to work on and know before they step but before they step foot into the cadium world? Well, if there’s there’s a lot of things really. Um first of all, you got to do your job. Treat it seriously. You got to go out there and do your own work. You can’t cut corners. You be walking that golf course. So if you’ve walked it and you say right, you know, going back to like that fits at the last hole here or something, right? T-shot 270 280. You make your game plan and you stick to it. And if you know layup area is where do I need to hit this layup area? Well, it’s on that left edge of that TV tower. I need to be 180 yards from this spot here to there on that. You do your homework. So when you’re getting that situation out there, you’re not second guessing yourself. You’ve got an answer. So you you’re carrying with 100% conviction. So if the player asks you where am I in this where’s me lay out whatever you can’t sort of like flapping through your pages go hang on a minute I’m trying to work it out and you’re just a 180 left edge of that TV tower it’s a 79 perfect get on with it and that’s how you’ve got to carry you got to remain humble you work hard be a good time keeper but be honest got to be honest good bad or ugly that’s why I’ve had a lot of good jobs and that’s why I’ve been relieved of a few jobs cuz sometimes terms that honesty probably goes a bit too far, but I I won’t change the thing I’ve done. It’s just But you got to be honest and say what you think. Is it exhausting? Sounds silly, but carrying that bag for five or six days and then doing it the next week and the week after must be tiring. I’ll tell you what’s tiring. A 43 year stag do I’ve been on. Yeah. I mean, listen, it’s it’s got tour. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, going backwards and forwards to uh America, you know, say 25 weeks a year, 28 weeks a year, it’s cuz you come home, you got to fly out there on a Sunday. This is what people don’t see. Think is Thursday till Sunday. No, you’re flying out the Sunday before to get there for Sunday night. So you’re there doing your homework on the Monday. Mhm. Then they might practice Monday afternoon and then they’ll play Tuesday, Wednesday proam, and then the tournament. And then you might won’t be able to fly home cuz the flight’s too early on the Sunday night. So you might have to fly home on the Monday which you get back home on Tuesday. So you got the then they got the jet lag Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and then you might have to go back again. So it is it gets tiring. Yeah. And even just carrying the bag and this amount of steps and stuff you must know and burnt those weeks. And in America lot you play a lot of places that are just so hot. I mean 100 degrees like and you’re walking you going you’re walking nearly 50 miles a week when you when you factor in everything. Yeah. you know, and sometimes with three or four stone on your back. So, yeah, it can get uh Did you ever think about moving to the States? Never. My favorite I’ll go on the record. Sorry. Sorry my friends over there, but I always say my favorite place in America is a departure lounge. Sorry about that, lads. But, you know, I’m a bird. That was good. That’s the other side of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to be able to travel and like you say, you have to lug that bag around. It must be Drake. Like it must be hard. And you’ve done it for 43 years. What would What would it take now? Okay. Your phone starts ringing. Okay. It’s just rung in my pocket. Should I check who it is? You never know. It might be Tub. It might be Jesus himself. Your phone starts ringing. Okay. Billy, I’m such a player. I want you to come out fulltime again for me. What What would it take? What what is that? What’s that that magic ingredient that you’d need to see? I look at the name and it excites me. I see a challenge and I see potential to help him improve to another level. So, I sit here going, you know, do you really want to work 30 weeks a year transatlantic? It’s a tough one. It’d have to be the right player, I think, to for me force to do that. I’d still like to caddy. Of course, I would. The lift tour has obviously been designed by the caddies association. So it’s it’s everything’s paid for. You know, it’s free rounds. There’s music every last place is $100,000 and you miss a cut over there, you get nothing. It’s like the live tour is so much more appealing for a caddy. You got to be honest about it. Do you feel like the caddies there as well? Every caddy I’ve spoken to bloody love. They love it. Why wouldn’t you? 14 weeks. You think about You think about right I’m going to Los Angeles next week, sir. Right. So I’m going to Riviera. So you pay for your flight, you pay for your hotel, you pay for your night car, pay for your food, pay for your beer, pay for a yardage book, you pay for a yardage, $100 or whatever it is in America, $120 sometimes. Yeah, you pay tournament they make you pay for certain tours like signature events I think they give them away for nothing but most normal PJ tour it’s $100. I didn’t expect that. And then a greens book 150 250 then. Oh my god. So, but you go and then you carry it and miss the cup on it. Top 65 qualifying ties. If you’re outside that 156 players, you literally make zero. Well, you lose money, would you? Because, you pay your own expens if if a player missed the court, you literally you you earn zero. Zero. Well, no, you get you get a weekly salary for that tournament, but that don’t really cover your expenses. Wow. Then you’ve worked all week, you miss a cup, so you get note. So, let’s flip it to the live tour where your flights are paid for, your hotel’s paid for, you eat with the players because you’re not treated like a rat tied outside clubhouse, which have most of my career. You weren’t allowed in the clubhouse or the locker room. And then it’s three rounds and everything’s paid for. And then last place money or 50th place is $100,000 and there’s 54 players. So, yeah, from a carriage point of view, you can see where I’m coming from. Yeah. So, get me a job on live. I’m ready when Rick turns pro and live. What? Um, serious though, these players who are playing like DP World Tour who are kind of floating with keeping the card or not, the caddies in particular must be struggling. That must be a hard life for those guys who they are missing cuts. Even when they make a cut, the player might be winning 10,000 euros something. They’re getting 5% of that or whatever. That must be hard. Uh, I had 15 years out there were a lot harder. So, it’s not that hard. Listen, the the the conditions, the way of everything of changing these days is it’s a massive change. Yeah. Listen, they won’t be making much money. That is for sure. But it’s not as hard as it used to be. I mean, I was sat in a lounge in America 6 months ago and one of the caddies came in. It’s like bearing in mind I’ve slept in bushes and tents and hvels where rats had run out and you’re on trains for two days and buses overnight getting to next. It was tough. But I once walked it for the world. great education but I’m in the locker room in America with the wink and one at cage goes says I flew in on me players private jet last night and seat didn’t recline fully flat but I went 3/4 way back and there were no Wi-Fi on it I’m like oh shut it and he knew where they were coming from or whoever it was you know can’t say his name but you’re allowed to say Billy I’m sorry I’m sorry get a grip of yourself will you yeah you’ve been there done that bloody slept in the bush jeez that’s wild is there any before we finish the podcast is there any is there any other wild stories you can share with us? Is there anything else that you feel we’ve not tapped into on the podcast that I don’t need to walk out of here and go, “Oh, didn’t tell you that story.” Well, there’s there’s thousands. I mean, you need to give me a subject. Ride a cup. Ryder Cup. Uh, Sevy Balastas at an 87 Ryder Cup playing with a young kid by the name of Jose Maria Sabal. So, Sevy sat in the locker room. They’re playing Curtis Strange and Tom Kite who let’s just say everyone fans of. So as soon as them spikes go on and that European logo goes on his breast and last but not least that European muzzle froing like a demented rock violet thruffing at the mouth going to the first te. So he gets Jose puts his arm around Jose. He said, “Oh, you listen to me. You’re the finest champion in Europe, the rookie of the year, and you will win many major championships, but today I just want you to concentrate on your game, and I will take care of this son of my Jose’s like, “Right, okay.” Jose’s first ever roll in a radical. So, they all tee off. Jose on the green about 40 ft. The two Americans on the green 30 ft. So, Sevy goes for the back left flag, pulls it left to the green. since I pulled them out and losing the head, biting his grips. So then he realized he’s put O under pressure first ever cup. He’s thinking Jose come listen to me. So puts his arm around him. He says when we get to the green he says you put first and then maybe you make the four and then I go for the chip in e like what? No no no you put first. E so Jose puts up 40 ft. Is it three foot past? And he he marks it, starts walking away and says like, “Hey, Jose, I told you you finished the put down.” So, sorry I forgot. So, he goes to put it back down. Curtis back. Jose, please. We don’t want you to finish cuz if me and Tom put past the old finishing footprints. Okay. So, Jose marks his ball, picks it back up. Now he’s he’s doing a bit of a he’s doing a bit of a kee and Bradley don’t know he’s coming and going like you know hey Jose what’s going on over there he says well Curtis don’t want me to finish cuz I could be studing his line I know where they chip in anyway so it goes back down the hill it’s his flop shot lands just on the green trickles down bingo chips in so he comes up picks O’s mark up slams it in his hand say I tell you and he walks 15 yards across the green to Curtis says Curtis says right in his face any problems now Curtis It’s like that’s Jose’s first ever round cup. He’s like, “What is going on here?” Mad. Yeah. Oh, that’s unreal. Wow. What about inspirational speeches? What is there any is there ever been like when you’ve been in the locker room and I know it’s probably been plenty, but you’ve gone, “Oh my god, that is that’s got that has got us all fired up.” Uh the uh the best speech I’ve ever heard was uh 2008 Ry Cup at Valhalla. All right, we got beat. But Nick had got up. Uh Nick Fo, got up and said a speech and sat down. I was just like and I was sat next to Jose. So I’m kicking Jose at the side. I said, “Get up.” What? I said, “Get up. Say something. We can’t finish on that. Get up, Billy. I’m not the captain. I can’t go.” I said, “Get up.” And kicked him again. So he got up and he gave 15 minutes the most passionate speech. It just off the cuff. Off the cuff you’ve ever heard in your life. And then six players were crying. It was incredible. All right. They went out the next day and they still got beat. But it were one of those surreal moments. You went, “Wow, what a legend you are.” Yeah. Sevie aside, who else has that tenacity, that European tenacity when it comes to Ryder Cup? Well, Jose definitely had it. Uh, modern day players. Uh, Shane’s got it, Annie. Shane loves it. Um, I think Rory’s got it. Yeah, I think everybody wants it, but you know, a real dog in him like Palter. Yeah, Paltera were fantastic. He were great. Paltera, I’ll tell you a story about Palter. And this this this describes him. This describes Paltera to a tea. He’s not wired right. And if you’re watching, you know it. He’s not wired right. And this is a true story. Burkeale 2008 Open Championship. Were you there? I wasn’t there. No. when when Justin Rose that was early. No, that was 98. Sorry, that was 1998. Sorry. Yeah, 2008. Sorry. 2008. So Paul was on the last hall of the tournament. 15 foot for par. He’s tied for the lead with Harrington. But Harrington’s got several losses to play and he’s blowing 50 5-0 miles an hour. It’s borderline unplayable. So Paula thinks this is it. It’s his big moment. He’s with his bloody Union Jack trousers on. No doubt he’s got Terry funny carry on to back of the green. So he’s got this 15 foot for par and he’s looked to the back of the green. Oi tell I’m here. Terry’s having a [ __ ] at the back of the green like I don’t believe it. He asked me to read one put in 71s. Now he’s got this. I’m coming pulse. And as he’s walking in Palter sees him coming in out of the corner of his eye says stop there Teddy. Teddy goes what? Bearing in mind this is the biggest career seen from Yeah. True story. True story. He says, you know, tell he says, “You remember when you were like 12 or 13 years old as a junior and you’re on the putting green outside the clubhouse back at your own golf club with your little shorts on and you’re saying to yourself, this is for the open. This is for the open.” To yourself as you’re putting Terry’s going, “Yeah, we’ve all done that.” He said, “Well, yeah, this is for the open now. Piss off.” And he rolled it straight in. Now that is not wired right but that’s how he works. What the hell? The selfbelief of that man was incredible and he played seven Ryder Cups who he never lost the singles did he incredible. He’d be on my team she se all time Ryder Cup players for sure. Wow. Do you think it’s a bit of a travesty that some of these guys might not be Ryder Cup captains? You know the amazing thing I always got asked out of all the Rder Cups I’ve ever done, who are your best captain? Uh, and I would have said Paul McInley until now. Luke McDonald, what he’s done the last two RDER Cups. You see it firsthand. You listen what he’s got to say. He has team meetings with everybody. He leaves no stone unturned. His stats are off the charts. Brilliant. He had never have been a Ryder Cup captain. No, he wouldn’t have been because Westwood would have done it in Rome. Well, it was it was had done this one. It was Henrik Stenson. Stenson Stenson had never got it. He got it by default because Westy pulled out. They were banned. Yeah. Yeah. So Stenson wouldn’t have been one and Luke would never have been one cuz it been Westwood then you gone Pol this one. You probably Gmac in Ireland and then Sergio Garcia would have been Hazel next one. So Luke had been bypassed then obviously Stenson got it and he got banned. So Luke fell through trap door to get the job really and now he’s going to go down as our best ever Ryder Cup captain. Amazing. Do you think he’ll go again in two years? Well said no which suggests to me and there’s no natural leader. It’s funny enough on the Sunday night in um at uh in New York there I had a chat with Rosie outside the players room. I said and we started talking about the next captain. I said, “Well, we know who next captain is, don’t we, Justin?” You know, you’d obviously front runner like, but I said, “Oh, you can decide if you still want to play.” You know, if he’s going to be 47, is his game still be good enough. You’d have to say maybe it will be. So, he might not take the chance, which I think if he wanted it, I think he’d get it. But Luke can’t rule himself out to me, which suggests he’ll do it again. Do you think it’ll be Tiger for the USA team? I’m sure he’ll do it at some stage. Depends where he wants to do it, but obviously he’s big friends with uh JP Manners. So, yeah, it could well be. So, do you again going back to that question, do you think there is going to be a time where we get Westwood as a captain, Palter as a captain, or do you think it’s gone? [Music] I think it might have gone for the sole reason that, you know, by the time they would get it, they might be in the late 50s, then you’re not in touch with the the young players anymore. I can see it sliding past them unfortunately and they would have been great captains. I Yeah, I’d like to see him still involved. Even if not a captain, why not have him as a vice captain? You can choose who you want, but um it might go past them. I hope it don’t, but you know where I’m coming from. Yeah, I know. I get it. I get it. I feel like we’ve got such a strong method at the moment with our captaincy with Luke and the Molinari brothers and Thomas Bejorn there. It’s like it feels like a Why would you break that up? Like if this was a football team, you wouldn’t break it up. If this was a football management and we just done s so good, you’d keep it on as much as you could really. But it’s not the tradition. That’s not what’s happening. No, like you say, you don’t you don’t break up a winning formula, do you? So, keep it going. If they want to do it, keep it going. Well, Billy, you’ve been amazing with your time. Some incredible stories. Um, pleasure, mate. Uh, hoping to see you on a live bag next year hopefully. I’m open to offers through anything, mate. I’ll come on tour with you. Yeah, dude. You’ve been honestly so amazing with your time. So many great stories. Guys, be sure to check out Billy on all of his social media. We’ll put all links down below. Uh I know you are a very much a favorite after dinner speaker as well. Am I not getting paid for this? Yeah, of course. It’s just invoices. Um it’s at Mickey Mouse Towers. Um no, you’ll you’re an amazing after dinner speech uh speaker as well. So I’m sure many people around the UK will get to hear some of these stories live as well over the next few months. You still do? So yeah, I’m still doing a few. Yeah. Yeah, much as you can. Guys, thanks very much. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Billy, amazing with your time and some of those stories will literally go down in history. Thanks, fellas. Pleasure. Pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Follow Billy: https://www.instagram.com/billy66foz?igsh=YjY5ZjMwaXE5azhl

00:00 – Intro
03:10 – Winning the U.S. Open
10:10 – How It All Started
14:00 – Seve
20:50 – How Golf Has Changed
24:30 – The Seve Bust-Up
32:40 – Darren Clarke
42:30 – Caddy Bonds
43:50 – Most Passionate Ryder Cup Player
47:45 – Caddying for Tiger Woods
54:00 – “Toilet Gate”
57:25 – Lee Westwood
01:03:30 – Are Caddies Ever at Fault?
01:08:30 – Mount Rushmore of Caddies
01:09:40 – Getting Into Caddying
01:13:50 – Caddying at LIV
01:17:30 – Ryder Cup Story
01:19:50 – Best Ryder Cup Speeches
01:23:30 – Luke Donald

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