The BIGGEST dos and don’ts for golfers, Skins Game details and the best Northeast golf

Chad and Wells discuss their recent rounds in the Northeast before diving into the biggest dos and don’t for golfers.

Then Chad breaks down all the details about the Skins Game format and how it came to be after a hiatus.

Presented by @JLabAudio.

Use code “VanityIndex20” for 20% off your first order of @Knockaround at knockaround.com

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Behind every drained putt or hosel rocket into the stands is a human being with complex emotions—among them, an insatiable appetite for golf. That’s what we’re after. Golf’s humanity is what makes it so special to us. There have never been more reasons to love this game, and we’re endeavoring to explore them all.

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I will say this, and you’re probably gonna disagree with me on this one, but the Fernando is not a very good drink. What? I’m sorry. It is not a very good drink. Wells. Oh, no. No. You have to honor the traditions. Do you not like rum? What’s your deal? Listen, I play a bartender on TV, okay? I know how to make a drink, and I don’t know what’s happening in that thing, but like I drank two of them. They are They’ll get you. They definitely will get you. Welcome in all you golf sickos. It’s time for another episode of the Vanity Index podcast powered by Jab. What’s up, Chad? What’s up, Wills? How we doing, baby? We’re good. We’re still in New York, but I’m about to be back in LA uh officially for a very long time, but my wife is doing another Broadway show, so I have to be here to support and be there for her opening night. So, for all of you um golf sickos that are also married and have to do uh musical theater when you come to the city, please come see Sarah in Just in Time with Jonathan Gra. It’s the Bobby Darren story. Uh it’s a great show. I’ve seen it before. Um and she’s playing Connie Francis. So, please come check that out. You know, I feel like the audience overlap for this podcast and musical theater or just legitimate theater is is probably pretty high. I mean, we are in terms of golf podcasts, I would say on the classier side. Yeah. So, uh it wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of our listeners are are right there on ticket master, you know, or whatever. What’s the Broadway ticketing system? I don’t know. Broadway tickets.com. I feel like there used to be a thing you could go in like Times Square and buy tickets, but anyway, go see uh Sarah on Broadway. She is amazing, I’m told. I haven’t seen the show yet, but I wouldn’t imagine anything less. And uh and and you’ve been spending a lot of time in New York and you’ve been playing a little bit of golf, so I want to like kind of jump into it. We are, by the way, in the middle of October recording this episode, which is peak New York golf weather. This time last year, I was in New Jersey doing Happy Gilmore 2, sneaking out at like all these golf clubs. The weather is just perfect this time of year. It’s like proper fall golf. Um, you’ve been playing a lot of golf. I’m very jealous. I I also got to play a little golf when I was in New York for the writer, which we’ll talk about, but I want to hear where where have you been teeing it up recently? I knocked off some really big ones. I got some cool pencils going in to my uh my little shadow box that’s usually behind me when we do the show back in LA. Um so we started out I I did like this like live meet and greet show with some of my friends from the Bachelor world, Chris Harrison, who we’ve had on the show and my good buddy Ben Higgins who was the Bachelor and we started it out in Boston. And so we went out to Boston and um our good friend Taylor Twelman um soccer superstar, one of the best Americans to ever uh dawn the red, white, and blue, guy who’s got a ton of caps and now does a lot of um announcing and commentating for the MLS and for the national team. Uh he invited us out to his place, which is um in Bolton, Massachusetts, so maybe like 45 minutes outside of the city. Um absolutely amazing. 36hole track um called the international. We played the track called the oaks and uh story goes is um that Liv asked to come and do um a tournament there and they gave them a bunch of money and then effectively just like rebuilt a golf course for them. So, it is fantastic. And and Twelman was telling us before, he was like, you know, it’s um it’s like a link style course, but it’s in a forest. And I was like, interesting. I don’t know how. Like, is that like abandoned trails? Like, what does that look like? Um, and you know what? He was very right. Like, it did set up very much Lynxy style, but then the thing that Lynx doesn’t have, it has gorse. This did have a lot of pine trees that were very, very annoying and difficult. Anyways, um we went out there, played that. If you ever get the opportunity to go play the international, highly suggested. Have you played that one? No, I haven’t. I’ve only ever played golf once in Boston. So, and I think I played at the place you’re going to talk about next. Yes. So, then the next place was the country club at Brooklyn. Oh, yes. The country club. Did you see any wild turkeys, by the way? I didn’t see any wild turkeys. Um but you know famously uh the country club at Brooklyn is where Francis we met won the US Open as an amateur. Um and Shy Lebuff played him in the movie the greatest game ever played. Uh most recently um Fitzpatrick won a US Open there and he also won the amter there. Um so it’s just got so much history, right? And you Okay, this is going to be a crazy thing to say but I’m going to stick stick by it. The coolest thing about Brookline is the locker room. The locker room is so elite. You walk in. Well, first of all, you drive up and it almost looks like a college or like Disneyland. You’re like, it’s huge and there’s all these different buildings and stuff. You go, you drop your clubs off and then you say like, okay, I’m playing this the member I’m playing with and they send you into the locker room. You walk into the locker room which is kind of it starts with a bar and that’s where they have the famous uh Fernando drink which you can grab and then you go into this locker room and by the way believe it’s a rum a rum based drink. Yes, Fernando. Keep going. Keep going. Sorry. I get too excited about the Fernando. Yeah, I have thoughts about the Fernando by the way. Okay. Um but then you walk into the locker room and these lockers are so old. like they’re patined and you can see through them and like the locking system to get in them is difficult and weird and like an old like a shower knob to like get in. Um, and it was just you walk in there and all of course all the Francis WT stuff’s everywhere and all the history it’s just dripping with just the old ghosts of golf. Um, and I just walked in there like I got chills walking in there, you know, like there are a few locker rooms that I imagine are like the elite ones and you’ve seen more of them than I have, but like Cypress felt that way. I imagine Augusta felt this way. Um, when you went and then for me, like going into Brooklyn, I was like, whoa, this is very cool. Which made me think there should be a company that makes golf lockers that look like they’re from the turn of the century. Mhm. Cuz they’re so cool, right? So cool. Well, what’s cool about the Brooklyn lockers is they’re like a metal cage. Yeah. So, it’s like, you know, usually think it’s like a wooden door. These are like metal cages and they’re pretty thick. Like, I don’t know, the stripe the the whatever the metal strips that make the lattice are like maybe like a an inch or a half inch, but there’s pretty big gaps so you can see through the lockers, which I think, you know, probably good for ventilation for your stinky shoes. But, um, but they they you can see through it, so you can kind of see what people have in it. The other thing that’s kind of cool that I’d never seen before is there’s like a tradition where members when they play away, you know, you get a bag tag. A lot of people will hang the bag tags on the lattice on the front of the locker room. And so where I when I was there, um I was kind of in this little al cove and there was a locker that had like 400 bag tags on it that clearly had been assembled over like a 30 or 40 year sort of playing career. And it was like every golf club you ever would want to see. You know, there’s like Oh hoopie and then there’s Cyprus and there’s Pebble and there’s Augusta and there’s Seol and there’s Wingfoot and there’s like Shinikok and just everything like hung up. It’s It’s so cool. And you walk into that space and you immediately feel the history. The other thing I don’t know if you did you do a phone call in the phone room? No, but I did go in there and look at it. Yeah, the phone room’s cool because there’s like there’s, you know, little pencils and stuff to write down. And there’s just like I don’t know, there’s like a part of the wood that’s just been like hollowed out from people sitting in there on the phone over the years just like scratching away at the wall out of like boredom on a call. And I love that those little details, you know, like people have been sitting here, you know, getting a call from the office or something since, you know, for a hundred years, you know, so as long as that club’s been around. And just I couldn’t agree more about the vibe there. You walk downstairs to get to the pro shop, which is super cool and like the the logo is iconic with the squirrel. Um, so yeah, just the Brookline is is so good. What did you think of the course? I got my ass kicked. Okay. Like it is a US Open course. It is so difficult. What was interesting is that, you know, they were like, “Yeah, this hole isn’t played at the US Open. We do like a one over there or something.” So it’s like we didn’t play the exact thing. Um, but uh it’s a it’s it’s a beautiful golf course. The greens are so difficult. It to me it felt like no matter where you landed the ball on the green, it was always going away from the hole. Like you’d hit good shots I felt like and they would still go away from the hole. And also the greens are really really hard coming from the international where I was playing my backup set which I don’t play a lot. So that means the the wedges are just really really spinny. I was spinning everything off the greens and then there it was I was hardressed to keep the ball on the greens. The other thing that’s was crazy to me about Brookline is it’s so much blind shots into greens. Like it’s you you have no idea what you’re hitting at. You have you’re just hoping for the best. It and I said this to our um our host. I was like, it’s almost seems like I’m playing this golf course backwards where like I, you know, the green’s always above me and I have I can’t see any of the undulations. I’m just seeing like the top of the flag. I mean, they have that one hole that’s like absolutely wild where you’re like, you can barely even see the green and it’s like there’s a huge bunker in front and then a huge mound and then the greens underneath it and you have to hit a perfect like spinny ball to keep it anywhere close to the green. Totally. But like the Okay, so this is my other thing that I noticed. There was all these stairs that were it’s like the natural rock there that they that they they’ve made stairs for or like cut into. And I remember thinking it’s like God wanted this place to be a golf course. Like it just seemed so natural in there. and the rock formations. I that’s something that I didn’t I didn’t like see when I watched the greatest game ever played or even watching it on TV, but I was just amazed by like the geological aspect of what was happening on that golf course. Um, but anyways, 10 out of 10 experience. I will say this, and you’re probably going to disagree with me on this one, but the Fernando is not a very good drink. What? I’m sorry. It is not a very good drink. Wells. Oh, no. No. You have to honor the traditions. Do you not like rum? What’s your deal? Listen, I play a bartender on TV, okay? I know how to make a drink and I don’t know what’s happening in that thing, but like I drank two of them. They are they’ll get you. They definitely will get you. Um, but I didn’t think like of all the of all the specialty drinks at really special clubs, I wasn’t a huge fan of them. I’m sorry. So disappointed. I mean, to me, like I don’t ever drink rum. The only time I’ve ever really chosen to drink rum and not been in the Caribbean is at National Golf Links with a Southside, which people will order a vodka southside. That seems like sacrilege to me. But I think the Southside with rum is very similar spiritually to the Fernando cuz it’s kind of like a muddled mint drink, right? Like there’s mint in it. Um the Southside recipe at National is like top secret. I asked them how to make it and they’re like, “We’re not telling you.” But it was rum based. It was really good. So to me when I had a Fernando that was like the connection point, you know, it just reminded me of National and here I was also at like another great cathedral of golf uh at Brooklyn. So I think you’re you couldn’t be more wrong and uh I I love the the honor the uh the southside. Listen, it’s not a transfusion Wells, but we you know when you’re in uh at Brooklyn, you got to be you got to be sipping on a on a Fernando. Maybe just, you know, hold your nose and and get it down, but it is it is elite. Did you also have the uh the the peanut butter and jelly and bacon sandwich that never seen that before? And like talk about an elite snack on the golf course, you know, peanut butter, bacon, jelly on a little like toast. Oh my god, incredible. U Yeah, but I want to come back to the rock stuff cuz that was the other thing when I went for the first time for the US Open and we were filming Full Swing season one. Um, that was the big surprise to me was just like all the natural kind of granite outcroppings. And I have come to s to think that like exposed granite formations on a golf course top tier in terms of elite like aesthetic. It’s also kind of specific to like that region of golf. And so like you know you you you start to piece together these like aesthetic things on these great courses across all the great kind of golfing regions of the world. And so if you’re in Scotland or Ireland, it’s the Gors and it’s the lynx land and it’s these big mounds and really firm turf and like that’s why you know I I played Kings Barnes just thinking about you know that uh tournament the Dunhill that was like two weeks ago but Kings Barnes to me felt like an American course. Yeah. But then you go and play like some of these smaller courses like Elely and you’re like this is what Scotland’s all about. You know it’s the total aesthetic altogether. Then you know you go to the south and it’s like pine trees and obviously Pinehurst with sort of the the scrubby areas and and obviously Augusta or peach tree that’s these these this pine straw and these like beautiful bunkering and these kind of big elevation and you know the it’s sort of humid and you’ve got like these like little creeks and that just feels very southern to me. And then you go to like obviously the west coast. We’re going to skip desert golf because we both don’t like desert golf. Skip the west you know you get to the west coast and it’s like the Monterey Peninsula. It’s this weird in between thing where you’ve got this like lush green grass, but it’s also there’s like gorsesque things and you’re in these like cypress forests and stuff like that and these dunes. It has a very specific feel. Ice to me. Ice plant. That’s right. So to me the northeast has is like granite rock outcroppings and you see it at Brookline in kind of the most pronounced way. And it’s it’s also really cool that like never comes into play. like you’re never like hitting into the rocks, but they just they just it like it’s like nature breaking through the turf, you know, in some ways. And it just I don’t know, it feels big and heavy and like I don’t know, grounding in a really cool way. And the other place that you see it is uh is not to be make a little transition, you also see it at Wingfoot Wells and you see it at Sleepy Hollow. So um so to me like seeing rock outcroppings a mark of an elite club and uh and so that I want to get to the next part of this. Uh, I heard you also maybe made a trip up to um up to what is it? Manasset. Uh, where is Wingfoot? Um, what is it? It’s Amagancet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s right. Um, north of the Bronx. I know that. That’s I was I was going up. Um, yeah. So, I I walked away from Brooklyn thinking I’m not sure if I’m going to play a better golf course in the next 3 years. Um, little did I know it was only going to take uh two days for me to play a golf course that I absolutely fell in love with in Wingfoot. Um, everything about that place [ __ ] Like it so Dude, you drive up there and it the the clubhouse is a castle. Like it is a literal castle. And I asked about it. I was like, did was this here beforehand? Was this like a duke of some like house or something? like no they they quarried all this rock from here to build this place. The clubhouse is huge. The locker room again elite. And then the history of the two stories like the upper versus lower like um tournament that they have I think is like Oh yeah. That’s so freaking awesome. Yep. Um, t by the way, another detail of the locker room, really really tiny like spiral staircase basically to get upstairs and downstairs and and so when you walk in, it’s like it’s not quite a spiral staircase, but it’s like very dangerous and steep feeling. And so I love that it’s like no one has said in a hundred years, you know what, like our older members are having trouble here. Like no, it’s like you you get up and down the stairs. Uh and then of course on the far end of the locker room that staircase drops you right in the bar which is exactly what you’re looking for. Um, the other thing that I heard about Wingfoot to to add on, so one, all the stone for the clubhouse was cied when they built the golf course, which is amazing thinking about them doing that with like, you know, horses and donkeys and stuff and maybe maybe a steam shovel back then probably, but like really rudimentary. And then u the other thing is interesting is I think that it was it’s five it’s either five or seven club presidents of Wingfoot started out as caddies there. So, if you want to understand the culture of a club, I always thought Wingfoot was going to be really stuffy. I always thought, you know, this is New York, blueblooded, this is going to be really stuffy. It’s the polar opposite. It is like you could literally become the president of the club starting as a caddy there and not being from a you know, a fancy family. Um, it is I couldn’t agree more. It is like such an awesome place to tee up a golf ball. There’s two golf courses, too. You know, some people don’t realize there’s the the West Course, which is the US Open, you know, championship course, and then there’s the East Course, which in which I think is like in some ways even more fun than the West Course and and more interesting. You know, there’s a lot of like dog legs and fun holes and sort of drivable stuff. And it just that place completely rules from the moment you set foot on the property and they like to have a really good time there. Yeah. You know, to piggyback on your thing about like it not being stuffy, you know, when you drive up there, I was thinking, okay, this is going to be like my experience at LACC or uh Balthist Raw where it’s like it’s just a bunch of rich people and it’s like doesn’t have the vibe that I want. Like if I’m going to be pay a bunch of money, I want it to be a party, right? And we, you know, granted we played there on a Sunday and it was after their member member. So there was I think a lot of members were at home and a lot of their wives were like, “You’re staying at home. We’re coming out here.” But we went out to their their patio, which is their bar is amazing. They’ve got like this like cheese and cracker thing that you can grab on the way out. The bar is so old school and old wood and great. And then you walk out onto this like veranda or this patio, which is huge, by the way. And everyone was partying and having an amazing time. And then, you know, there’s a bunch of like women there. So, they recognized Chris Harrison and myself and they were like, “Oh my god, can we buy you drinks? Can we buy you shots? Like, Ross, let me get you rosé like cuz give out roses.” And I was like, “This place is awesome. Like, I’m having such a good time at this place.” And then let’s just talk about the golf course. Like, like I said, it was just their member member. So, um they were like, “It’s hard right now.” Just so you know, like the pins are tucked, the rough is high. This is gonna this is going to hurt. And boy oh boy did it. Now we had the last time before people stopped started dropping balls. And our host was late and we almost got jumped and our caddy who is this um girl from from St. Andrews named Donnie. She was like we have to go before the balls start being played or else you’re not going to be out of here for another hour and a half. And I was like what are you talking about? And so they have a rule there that there are no tea times. So you get up there, whoever is the one person from your group puts a ball down on the tea box and then someone else comes in and puts the ball and that becomes the lineup. Like there is no favored nations here. You can’t go grease your starter. And I thought that was really cool. I I like the way that that happened, but I didn’t like the fact that then all of a sudden there was like 30 people just sitting on the first tea watching all of us tee off. Um, I snap hooked mine about 170 yards uh to the left and um and every everyone’s like just hit another ball. And I’m like, “No, it’s okay. I’m gonna I’ll be fine. I’ll I I have to play my ball, whatever.” I just didn’t want to hit another ball. Uh ended up like hitting a 3-wood to about 30 feet, making par and like getting out of there being like great. Anyways, the course is beautiful and long and hard and the greens similar to Brookline. Like I felt like nothing ever was like rolling towards the the hole. It was always rolling away. Um but I absolutely loved it. And so we played a three a threematch game, right? So we were just doing total score and whoever got the lowest score was going to be the winner of our thing. So, uh, I w I was like one down after the first match and then I was like I was two down to Ben and I was like five down to Chris. And I go out there on the front nine and I throw up a atrocious 44, right? Like so bad. Like so nervous and like I was like I just need a drink or something. Like I need something to chill out. So then on nine, eight or nine, I chip in from the bunker for birdie and everything changes. And then yes, baby, you know, 10’s a long par three that I stuck to about 30 ft, made par, par the next one, par the next one, par the next one, birdie the next one. All of a sudden, everyone’s like, “You’re one under right now on the back after shooting.” Like my caddy was like, “I don’t know who you are, but I’m glad that you’ve shown up.” Anyways, Ben fought. He like lipped out an eagle putt. Two holes to go cuz I was up like two. And then all of a sudden we were tied and it came down to 18. And I hit like a little snappy snappy ball off into the left, but I had a window. I dumped it in the bunker up there. He hit his short. Uh, the pin was like way pinned back and my caddy was like, “Play off the mound.” And I’m like, “No, I’m going straight at this thing. I I got to make par and I got to get out of here.” I hit it to about three feet. Ben has So, I’ve got a par putt and and like I said, I am uh I we’re even going into 18. He’s got a three-foot putt, but I’m a little bit out. So, I sink my putt and I to I walk over to his coin. I pick it up. I throw it to him. I say, “That’s even. We’re good.” And it was just the best. It was like the best way to end. I felt like Jack Nicholas at the RDER Cup, you know, like it’s such a dick move because I don’t like allow you to lose, but like I get to hold that over you. Anyways, I got nothing but amazing things to say about Wingfoot. I think it’s one of the coolest places I’ve ever played golf. Top three of my favorite places I’ve ever been to. Um, if you ever get a chance, please, you should go play Wingfoot. Yeah, it’s so it’s so good. Um, well, I also was lucky enough to get an invite up to Wingfoot during the writer Cup week. And for me, it was the uh it was the site of a of an insult that I’m going to carry with me for the rest of my life. Okay. And is now part of my Twitter bio. So, I was playing with the editor of Golf Digest. Love it. And uh he’s a member up there. And we play the front nine. We’re playing the East Course. So, this is like, you know, theoretically the easier golf course. And and I played horrible. you know, we’re playing basically straight up and I played like crap. Probably shot like a 42 or 43 on the front n and I’m just like I can’t get the ball in play. I like hit I literally like hit a water tower with a drive. I mean it was like it was embarrassingly bad off the tea and super frustrating and I was just trying to hold it together and we get into the clubhouse and I’m like I probably need like a a snack and a cocktail or something. So, we’re hanging in the in the bar for a minute before we transition to the 10th T. And we run into Steve Sans who is, you know, golf commentator and I know Steve from just being around the industry and he comes up and says hi and he’s doing some outing thing with Paul Azinger for the writer cup sponsored by somebody or whatever. So, he was just there and he’s like, “What do you think of Wingfoot?” I’m like, “Oh my god, it’s awesome. You know, this place is like the greatest.” And I introduced him to the Golf Digest guy and uh and so Steve asks me, he’s like, “Well, how you playing?” And I’m like, h, you know, it’s been a bit rough. And he’s like, well, are you good? And I was like, well, I mean, I’m a scratch. And then the Golf Digest editor says he’s an industry scratch, which was like fair and really really just cut me to my core. If there’s ever a namesake for the Vanity Index podcast, like it’s it’s me. Uh, and so yeah, the I think the uh synonym of being an industry scratch really um that’s one I’m going to take with me to my grave. But uh but I did like you have a bit of a comeback on the back nine. I played much better on the back. I think I shot even par or one over. Um and so redeemed it. But uh but I I’m going to carry that with me forever. So this we might have to change the name of the podcast to industry scratch. You know, I had a caddyy say something me the other day that I really really loved. um at the end of the round he said um you know like he you know took his hat off and we were shaking shaking each other’s hands and he said you know I I’d go on a walk with you anytime and I was like I was like that’s such a good line like that I had played well that day so we had had fun but like it’s so amazing how like a caddy can completely change the vibe of how you’re playing and what you’re doing. Um, so yeah, what I was quoted was a little nicer than yours, but I I’ve got an indust I’m an industry five if I’m being honest with you. Oh, that’s nice. Anyways, um, yeah, you should go play Wingfoot if you ever um, so, okay, I do have one knock it. You got a note? I’ve got to knock it. Time for our segment called Can’t Knock It. Brought to you by Knockaround. proud partner of the Vanity Index podcast and these guys make seriously awesome shades and now they’re the official eyewear of the PGA Tour. I wore these at Wingfoot and they definitely help me read some greens. They heighten contrast and definition and actually help you see those greens so much more clearly. Um, it’s wild how much detail you can pick up. And if you guys want to try a pair, head on over to knockaround.com/golf and use the code vanityindex 20 for 20% off your first order. Again, that’s vanityindex 20 for 20% off. Some exclusions apply. Definitely got to check them out. Okay, this is a I can knock it brought to you by Knockaround. All right, let’s hear it. What can you knock? The driving range. The driving range at wingfoot is 200 yards max, but everyone’s like maybe 180. So that’s like a that’s like a cuy sixiron for me. And you can’t Okay. Well, I mean, you know, I’m a big hitter. There’s a 150 foot fence at the end. You’re going to hit a cuddy sixiron over that. Okay. But yeah, keep going. Well, that’s what they said. They were like, don’t hit anything over 185. And I was like, that’s that’s like So, I only got to seven iron cuz I didn’t want to be a jerk or whatever. Um, and the the piece of property is huge. I mean, they have 36 holes. And if you have a golf course like that, you want to know what your driver’s doing before you get out there. Um, and I had no idea what the driver was doing. And to me, if you’re going to be an elite club, you can have the fence up, but give me like the lowf flight balls or something so I can pound a couple drivers so I can kind of see where it’s going. I’m not sure if that’s something that bothers you, but it’s something that really, really bothers me. Yeah. I mean, the driving range setup is is like kind of another one of these things that is part of that Northeast tradition. But also, by the way, in like Scotland, a lot of these courses don’t even have driving rates. So, you just kind of show up and you’re off the box. Um, Brookline has has a similar thing. I think they have a limited limited range where you’re hitting limited flight balls. Um, our club in LA, same thing. Riviera, another one really famous to to me. the the driving range at Riviera. I think Riviera is like one of the most spectacular pieces of property in terms of the golf and ruined in some respects aesthetically by this like driving range netting that like is in the dead center of the golf course that you can pretty much see on like every single hole. And I was last time I played Riviera, I was trying to think about what it would look like without the driving range nets and it would just it’s just like it’d be perfect, you know? And so so like driving range is like I guess kind of a newer thing. Um, interestingly, another one that doesn’t even have a driving range is Marian. Really? Like Marian’s driving range is on a different part of the like on a different property. It’s like a mile down the road. So, you can go warm up if you want, but then you got to drive back. And to me, it’s like hitting driver on a range to get warmed up only matters if I’m literally doing it within like 5 minutes of hitting my first T-shot. If I’ve got to get in a car, it’s it’s worthless. Like, it might as well not hit any. Um, so I Yeah, I agree with you in some respect. Um, but only like for new courses. I think if you’re a new course and you’ve gotten you’ve built a new thing, I think, you know, having a driving range that allows you to hit driver, obviously that’s like in the cards, but part of the charm of these old places is like, you know, kind of playing like how they used to play. And I don’t know if that driving range was there, you know, when Wingfoot was first created. Like, I doubt it. You know, most of these courses didn’t have ranges or you’d pay your caddy to shag balls for you for a few minutes. And um it’s amazing to me too how all these old pros like practiced without driving ranges, you know, or they’d go have like their caddy shag for them. So I I think you can knock it, I guess. But uh to me like these old clubs kind of part of the history, part of the tradition. Um I played another course called Tamarak Country Club, which is up in Greenwich, Connecticut. And it had an interesting way of handling this. So it had a driving range that actually hit balls into a par4 fairway. And there was a uh like a electronic system where when groups came off the tee, it like trips a little signal or something and then it like puts a big red light up on the corner of the driving range so you can’t hit, but you’re literally like hitting your golf shots back towards the T- box of a par4 at like slightly offaxis. And so, you know, you’re literally like walking up the fairway through like a thousand golf balls, but the way the hole is like really downhill. And so it’s like you’re going to carry all the driving range balls for the most part. You’re not going to be like in play and they thankfully have like yellow range balls. So, you know, you can always find your golf ball. I thought that was kind of an interesting example of like another course that, you know, I think they’ve got 36 holes there and it’s like, you know, no no space for a driving range. They kind of made do. So, part of the charm to me, Wells, I know you uh snap hooked your uh your T-shot, but I I I think you can’t knock it personally. Okay, fair enough. I was thinking of a new segment for you. um and calling it mum’s the word because there’s a lot of things that shouldn’t be said on a golf course. And I I’m going to start this and then I’ll give you one where whatever you think your mum’s the word should be. Um and we got to find a sponsor for this. Uh Chad mums the word uh on Vanity Index podcast. But um I I cannot stand it when people talk to my ball before it gets to the hole. Even if it looks really really good. And I really can’t stand it when my caddy says something before it gets to the hole. I don’t know if that’s something that bothers you, but for me I get so angry and I always have to say like do take my ball out of your mouth. take my balls out of your mouth, you know. Totally. So annoying. Yeah, that does bother me actually. I I I wasn’t sure where we were going with this, but yeah, especially I mean playing competitor like don’t talk to my ball for sure. I had this happen to me the other day and we had a caddy who um you know like I don’t know whatever I hit a putt and he was like oh sit or or whatever it was like sit down sit down and then it came up like four feet short and I’m like I’m like dude if you’re going to talk like and it’s going to listen like be like get in the hole or something you know like it was just it was embarrassing. Um yeah. Oh god this is good. All right so uh what do I not like to hear on the golf course? I mean, hammer, you know, I like it when it’s coming out of my mouth, but like when I say it, I like it when you say it to me. Um, so that’s definitely top of the list. Uh, you know, I think um, yeah, you’re away is always annoying. Um, but yeah, I think like don’t don’t talk to my ball. I think that’s a pretty good one. Yeah. Okay. Well, well, we’re going to work on this. We’re going to workshop this. We’ll get I’m going to be more prepared next time, you know, have have the have the ears out, you know, listening for some uh some things out on the course you don’t want to hear about. You know, this actually kind of reminds me of this is like these little parts of golf culture and I saw something on on Instagram the other day that that made me laugh in terms of like, you know, we always talk about the signs of like a great club, the little things and the little details. And we’ve also talked about like the signs of good players. And somebody posted the other day and it is a uh it is a 14 slot bag and it’s it’s from the golf tour Chicago uh Twitter handle and he says where all my real hashtag ballnowers at. And I said not using a 14 slot bag. And this might be my most viral tweet ever. Uh almost half a million views on this. Um, but I that brings me up, you know, kind of to to this question is like what are the signs that you’re sort of not a stick? And to me, a 14 slot bag kind of says, hey, this is going on the back of a cart. You know, no one’s carrying this thing. And a lot of people were making the argument that uh this is the best way to keep your clubs organized. And to to that I say like, are you losing your golf clubs in your golf bag? You know, like is it what’s the issue here? I do agree with the placement on this where you do have the uh woods up top and then you know you’re descending to your wedges at the bottom. Also don’t agree with the putter on the bottom. I feel like the putter is always got to live up there up top with the drivers and and the woods. Uh but to me, you know, the the standard sort of four slot is is the best way to go. Mainly because it just reminds me of like high school golf. Um but I I don’t know. I I can’t take you seriously if you show up to the course of the 14 slot bag. Sorry. Okay. So, you brought up the four slot bag, which is what I employ right now, but we have both game the McKenzie bag, which is a two slot bag. How do you feel about that? I mean, I I guess I could slightly relate to people losing their clubs because when all of your irons are mingled together, it is a bit like can be a bit chaotic to go in there and find that uh, you know, 54 instead of the, you know, the 60. But, um, I like the McKenzie bags for if I’m going to carry and it is it is kind of nice cuz you have to really like pair down your stuff, you know, and there’s there’s a nice feeling of like, okay, I’m only going to bring four or five golf balls out because that’s all I can fit in this thing and a and a glove and some TE’s. Um, it also gives me an excuse to use a valuables pouch. I always like get those as tea prizes and I never really understand what you’re supposed to do with a valuables pouch cuz my normal golf bag is like a Tideless Links Legend, you know, kind of club bag that’s got a stand. It’s meant to be carried. It’s got single strap, you know, like a boss. Uh, and that has like more than enough pockets for me to carry like everything. So, I never know what to do with these valuable valuables pouches. I’m like, I have a valuable zipper thing. I It’s got like a velour lining. I can put a watch in there. I put my phone in there, AirPods, whatever. Cash stays in the pocket, obviously. Um, so I have finally found a use for a valuables pouch, which is with the Mackenzie bag, you only get one pocket. And so I need a place to separate like my TE’s and ball markers and uh you know divot repair tools and stuff like that. So uh that’s the one place where where the the valuables pouch has seemingly been useful for me. I don’t know what do you do you do you use a valuables pouch in you also carry like crystals and stuff in your bag. So have to get your chi correct. Have we ever talked about that on on the show? We did talk we did talk about it on the show and I’m not going to let you forget it. like the black obsidian or something that you’re using to like level out your uh your emotional waves. Yeah, I’ll try anything, Chad, to you know, like, are you kidding me? Um, I did I did something on the golf course that I think twice that I think that you I don’t think I know you will say is egregious and I should have never done it, but I don’t care because I’m not as much of a stickler for branding, but I got a lot of heat from my playing partners at um I didn’t have so I I brought out my my spare set to New York because I’m just going to be in New York a lot because my wife’s doing this show. So, I’m just like I’m just going to keep a spare set here. Um, but my spare set like doesn’t have head covers and it just just, you know, it’s hodge podge and it’s not like set up like my my gamers at home, right? So, when we went to Brooklyn, I bought a putter head cover and I put it on before the round and and everyone was like, “You can’t do this.” And I was like, “Yeah.” And Chad has this funny rule that like you can’t use a another club’s putter head cover unless you’ve gone low. And I didn’t know if I was going to go low. I did not go low, but my bag looked really really cool, you know. Oh, wells. I know. And then at Wingfoot, I was like, I I think the Wingfoot logo is top tier elite. Um, and I needed a I just had like Don’t say it. Don’t say it. I needed like a fivewood head cover. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don’t worry. See you. Okay. So, I bought it and I had like a, you know, like it was a titleist. It was like the titleless head cover and I just went and threw that away and I put that on before the round. And again, my playing partners are like, “How dare you do this? You have to wait until at least after the round to do it.” Now, do you think that my caddy was judging me for doing this? Um, absolutely. I mean, they’re, you know, they, but you’re so ripe for judgment, Wells. You know, your your visual aesthetics have to matter on the first te. You got to earn that head cover, buddy. You got to play the golf course and then put it on the bag. That’s post round stuff, you know. That’s like at least it’s a fivewood cover. I think I can be okay with that. It’s not a driver cover. What’s on your driver right now in your away bag? You’re not going to like this. No. No. What is it? A hoopie. Oh, no. Oh, god. A club. you are not a member at Oh boy. I’m going to send you like a Sugarloaf head cover or something, you know, and just go down to our office. I don’t know where you guys are staying. I’m sure it’s close to Broadway, but go down to Greenwich Street to the pro shop offices. We’ll get you a head cover cuz that’s uh egregious behavior. All right. And and actually though, I will say like the idea of having an away set um to get kind of set up aesthetically is is got to be kind of fun. Like what are you going to how you going to assemble it? What kind of towel you putting on there? You got alignment rods. Do you have a cover for that yet? Like if you’re going to be playing all this great golf, it is kind of a blank slate and I like the idea of being able to kind of assemble it. Are you What What irons are you hitting? Is it the Titalists? Yeah, the Titalist irons. And I actually like the the effectively the fivewood and the 3-wood, but then I have I game my Titalist driver back home. So, I had the tailor made driver and I couldn’t hit it. So, I just hit 3-wood the entire time. Anyways, and it’s in theory having the away set of clubs is fantastic, but it just always gave me the excuse of like this isn’t this is what I normally play. Like I’m normally better, you know, and everyone’s like shut up. I don’t care, you know, like you’re a liar anyways. These are these are beautiful Tyler’s clubs. Um oh my god. So, so I I yes, I’m going to keep this set here, but if I come back and I have some like really good golf lined up, you best believe that I’m going to like the fact that I went and played Brookline and Wingfoot without my gamers is a wild idea. And I don’t know why I thought that was a good idea. Oh my god. Well, um I am uh excited that you’re getting to play so much great golf. Um I’ve got a a trip coming up back to the East Coast. I think we’re going to probably cross in midair, but I’m going to be out at Oakmont in uh two weeks, which I’m excited to see kind of post US Open. Um it’s it’s spectacular and I can’t wait to go get back out there. But um but yeah. Yeah, we uh we’re lucky Wells. We get to do a lot of cool stuff. Um I I want to talk a little bit about uh the skins game here, okay? Because this is a uh a week after we first announced that we’re bringing the skins game back and I just I want to get people excited about this. Um, this has been a project that I’ve been working on for almost five years, convincing the PGA Tour to kind of like let me take the Skins game over and bring it back to TV. I grew up watching it as a kid. Thanksgiving tradition for me was like turkey football, you know, Charlie Brown skins game. My dad and I used to watch that in the Masters. Since I’ve acquired the rights to it and sort of been putting this all together, um I have come to find out like that it used to actually be the highest rated golf televised event of the whole year from like 198 something to 86 or whatever. It actually outrated the Masters in terms of like TV audience. So, you know, I think people forget just how big a deal it was. And when we announced last fall that we were gonna be bringing it back without any details, um I was kind of shocked at like how how much like play it got because people really do remember this thing. And you know and and and the skins game stopped in like I think it was 2005 or 2008 was the last one. And you know since then we’ve gotten the match and several iterations of that with like you know Tiger and Phil and different celebrities. And you know my critique of the match has always been it never feels like they’re playing for anything. And so for me it was like if we’re going to bring the skins game back one we’ve got to really lean into the nostalgia and I think we live in a nostalgia culture. I mean Happy Gilmore I 2 great example like just in general I think people are looking for this kind of tie back to history and and also like the core audience for this thing like guys our age you know that are like grew up watching it with their dads and now you know like some of us have kids and like I want to start that tradition for my kids. But that logo that like skins game logo looks like the Fleetwood Mac logo or the Cheers logo just screams ‘8s to me and I want to like honor it and bring it into the future. So So when I like started putting this all together um to me the number one most important thing was like how do I get one it was like we have we want to have like top players playing obviously so we we partner with the PGA Tour so we have all you know top PJ tour players playing. There’s four guys competing in it. I was like we have to have a real purse. We also have to like figure out a way to get these guys like fist pumping or like really grinding over putts like early in the match. And obviously if you’re listening to this podcast, you know how skins games work. The way that the skins game works in this, you know, in in you know, traditionally was every player starts at $0 and then the holes have a certain dollar value and it increases as you get to the last holes. You know, the last four holes are worth like I think in the old version was like $100,000 or, you know, they’re 50 grand, but it would add up to like a big purse. And so we were we’re going to do the same thing but with a slight twist which I’m really excited about which we’re calling the reverse purse. And so basically the what we’re going to do is each player is going to start with a million dollars on the first T. So you’re going to see that scoreboard and the scoring standard and it’s going to say Justin Thomas a million, Xander Schoffley a million, Tommy Fleetwood a million dollars. Keegan Bradley a million dollars and they’re going to start playing the skins game. And as the holes carry over, you know, t two tie, all tie, the first time someone wins a skin, their total is going to go up, everyone else’s is going to go down. And if by how much? By whatever that whole value is worth. So are they all worth the same or do they keep on going? Are they No, it’s going to escalate. So it’ll start at like a hundred grand and then it will go up as the match progresses. And obviously carryovers, you know, they get added together. And so there could be some like really really big swings where someone’s going up a lot. I mean, theoretically, you could walk out of there with $4 million and everybody else walk out with zero. And I think that for these guys that are so used to, you know, playing for big purses, you know, when you’re playing in an abstract event and the purse is being allocated based on your golf play, I don’t think they really think about like a missed putt in terms of like dollars taken away from them. You know, they just that’s just not the way they think about pro golf. It’s like if you miss a putt and you end up tied for third instead of solo second, like that’s a pretty big swing in terms of cash. But in the moment, they’re not really thinking about it. I’m going to make sure they’re thinking about it. Like, and literally take the money away from them to, you know, give it to the person that they’re playing with and see their total go up. And I’ve I’ve been lucky enough to like be exposed to golfing with some of these top players and they love to, you know, wager on the side. And it’s like they would kill to take like $100 off of each other. 100,000. It doesn’t matter the amount. It’s like the fact that they are handing it over. It was theirs, now it’s mine. I think is gonna create like really really interesting match dynamics because you’re gonna get these guys really trying to win because it’s like literal bragging rights like I’m taking your money right now that’s mine and you got to go get it back and we’re also not paying appearance fees which is I’m sort of shocked that we were able to convince all these players to come and do it because you know they they also grew up with the skins game and you know I think it’s a it’s a big purse like this is not for charity. This is like you can theoretically win 4 million bucks or you can walk away with nothing. And I think the idea of like there being real stakes for these guys. Super super excited. So skins game’s coming back. Uh it’s going to be on Black Friday on Amazon Prime. We’re out early. So we’re the leadin to the NFL game. So we’re up first. Uh so we’ll be on the East Coast now. So we’re kind of moving it from the desert to South Florida. We’re going to be at Panther National, which is this awesome private club that no one’s really ever seen before on TV that uh Justin Thomas designed with Jack Nicholas. It’s like one of these crazy awesome private clubs that like no one gets to play. So, I’m super excited for people to see it. It’s very lynxy. There’s like long fescue. It’s It’s not what you expect out of South Florida. Um, and you know, like you’re going to wake up hung over on Thanksgiving after Thanksgiving dinner and you’re going to be waiting around for football to start and all of a sudden the Skins game’s going to be back on your on your TV uh while you’re shopping on Amazon. So, um really really excited about it. It we just announced it last week. Um we’re going to be doing a ton of content in the leadup. We’re kind of honoring the history of the event. Uh I think the players are super exciting and super excited to kind of be a part of this tradition and history and uh and it just got me thinking like you know I got to bring back the skins game. Is there anything that if you were like head of golf that you would want to bring back from you know the history of kind of golf on TV or whatever. I think it’s more of like where it was like I remember I don’t even know if it was a skins game or it was a match and it was Arnold Palmer versus Jack Nicholas just them two at Pebble and I I remember watching that and they still will replay that on the golf channel and I think that that’s a wonderful world of golf. That’s what that was. Shell’s wonderful. Shell Shell’s wonderful world of golf. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I So I would say that that would be my answer is the the Shell’s wonderful world of golf thing sounds so cool. I as as the television producer of me, I have questions about this that I don’t know if you have the answers to, but I’m going to throw a couple at you. Yeah, let’s go. Um, are they going to be miked up? They are going to be miked up. Yeah. Okay, that’s awesome. But we’re not but we’re not going to do the AirPod thing cuz I think that that’s a little I don’t know that that seems awkward to me. You know, when they’re trying to talk to the booth, you know, they they do that on the PGA tour. They’ve done that on TGL. They put the AirPods in. They get to talk to the booth. So, we’re going to have them miked up, but we’re also going to have a reporter walking with them. And anytime we’re going to want to talk to the players, we’re going to actually have the reporter doing it out on the course. The other thing that we’re going to do that I think is is pretty cool is we’re not going to rope and stake the golf course. So, we’re expecting a couple thousand people out there. It’s going to be free to come out and watch. So, if you’re around on uh in South Florida on on the day after Thanksgiving, like come and hang out with us. Um we’re going to have it set up like the final round of the US Amter. So, the there will be no ropes and stakes. You’re going to be able to walk in the fairways with these four players because there’s only one group on the course. Every green, we’re going to let the crowd sort of surround the greens. We’re going to try and create like a little amphitheater environment and really just make those putts that matter for like all that money uh really feel like huge moments hopefully like even like pretty early into the match. Other question is tape delay um or is it going to be live? It’s going to be live, baby. We’re live. Yeah, live. live, which is terrifying, but also exciting. And uh and definitely this will be our like biggest live event that we’ve ever produced. And um you know, I think it’s it’s going to be great. And we’ve got a bunch of fun surprises for the broadcast in terms of like all the history and heritage of the of the skins game and all the lore from days past and these great champions that have competed in this event and uh and yeah, really trying to like honor the history while also pushing it into the future. Well, that sounds awesome, dude. I’m really excited for that. Um, I’m bummed that I can’t go to it because I think my wife would kill me if I got on a red eye after Thanksgiving. But just come and do Thanksgiving with us in Florida. Yeah. What? This is a nice place to be. And we’ll come back to you on that. Okay. Perfect. All right. Time right now for our segment we like to call overheard from JAB. From the lab to the course, Jay Lab Tech is trusted by the pros with gear engineered in the lab built for every practice, every flight, and every moment you need to lock in. Like right now, Chad and I need to lock in uh with these microphones and these amazing head uh headphones as well. I’ve been traveling a lot recently and have been rocking these Bluetooth headphones. Uh they’ve been amazing on flights. Um Jab delivers headphones, earbuds, and Bluetooth speakers designed for life that respect your budget. Look for the Blue Box at retailers everywhere or shopjab.com. All right, Wells. Uh what are we overhearing today? The internet’s been a buzz with a lot of fun stuff. What’s uh what are we overhearing these days? Well, I think this is piggybacking alongside the Dunh Hill, which seemed like an absolute slog out there, at least for a couple days. It was just sideways rain and really, really tough. And then I saw this video of a $10,000 trip to Ireland that was effectively rained out. And I guess the question that we are answering is is what do you do if this happens to you? I’ll play the video for you real quick. Gale Force wins. Perfect song for this. Yeah. And I think that these guys are trying to be a win break for this guy. Oh, yeah. You know, on the tea. Yeah. Yeah. Hit it. So, um, what do you do? I mean, you’ve flown all the way over across the pond. You’re playing Valley Bunion. Would you still play or is it stupid? And then also friend of the show Billy Bush commented on it and I think we should end with what he said. I love this. Um I mean this makes me think about like what’s the worst weather you’ve ever played golf in. Yeah. And for me it was also in Scotland I played uh Carnoui in like this exact condition and I completely regret it. Like I think this is one of those things where I get the spirit of hey, you’ve spent the money to be over there. Um it’s a great day. Like it’s a good memory. That one was like not fun. I got my butt kicked by the golf course. I was soaking wet and freezing. I think I had like some food poisoning or some kind of jet lag cuz I felt like I was going to throw up the whole time. And you know, you you drive for like an hour to get out to the golf course and you just it’s just driving sideways rain and it’s freezing cold and it’s like it’s just I I want to feel like I love golf enough to be able to make that fun, but honestly it was like kind of a huge disappointment and I wish I would have just hung out at the pub all day and and uh and tipped a few back. But um I don’t know like you spend the money to be over there for a lot of reasons. And I think the idea of like creating memories with your time is really important. And to me like the vibe of being there with all my friends that we did this golf trip together just being all sad that we couldn’t play golf in this driving weather and hanging out at a pub is honestly maybe a better memory than just like going out and brutally like torturing yourself barely even playing golf, you know, in in nasty nasty weather. Now, like if it’s raining and cold, I get that. That’s how it is in the British Isles sometimes. If it’s like unplayably raining and it’s sideways wind and you can’t keep the ball on the tea, it’s like to me that’s just it’s not it’s not worth it. Like go go go hang out at the pub. Go experience culture. You’re still going to have a great day. You’re going to have a great memory about the time you almost played Carni or you almost played Bali Bunan. Uh but to me, it’s not worth it for that Instagram video of you playing in Sideways Rain. I don’t know. What do you think? Okay, so here’s the question. So, this happened to me at Pebble. I uh gave my brother around at Pebble, which he had never played before uh for Christmas. We went down there, so it was paid for. We get there, same thing. Sideways rain. The the cups were filled up with water. So much so that we didn’t want to make them because if you’d have to reach in, then your hand would get just soaking wet. But the thing was is that like I had already paid for it. It’s like what what are we gonna like I’m not getting a refund here. There’s no like rain check. Um, so I, you know, if if if you still have to pay for it. The other thing is, especially in Ireland, I feel like the weather can change really really quickly and like what if, yes, it’s like sideways crazy rain for the first six holes, but then it clears, but you’re not on the course. And so like all of a sudden you’re at the pub and you’re looking outside and you’re like, it’s turned into a bluebird day. And we could have been out there, but we we kind of pussed out. So I don’t know I guess I’m on the other side of it like might as well try. Um especially if you have paid for it. Now I do love what our friend Billy Bush said. He said I’m going to the pub and getting hammered. Then revisit the idea. Which which by the way you could be drunk and it could be late in the afternoon. You could be like you know what? Let’s get the golf clubs. We’re go we could do this. Yeah. you have a little bit of uh a little bit of like uh liquid uh liquid warmth kind of getting you going there. Yeah. I mean, you know, I I’ll say like this might just be my old age and and you know, I don’t know, maybe I’m maybe I’m too jaded about all of this, but um I remember being a little kid and it was not a little kid, but like in maybe in like 10th grade and I was obsessed with golf and it was Christmas morning and I got a Cleveland 588 RTG 60°ree wedge. my first ever lob wedge, my first ever I think maybe new club that I ever got. And I was like, I have to go play golf. You know, it’s Christmas day. We’re done. It’s like I got a little window before Christmas dinner. It’s like we’ve done, you know, opening presents. And so I went out to our like local golf course, which was sort of this like semi-private place where I used to work as a cart boy. And it was freezing. I mean, it was literally like the ground was frozen. It was like kind of misting rain and like maybe 25, 30°. So, in Atlanta, Georgia, that’s like really really unseasonably cold. So, we’re we’re freezing and we get out there and I’m like, I don’t care. I’m playing golf anyway. I got to be able to play with this wedge. So, we’re like carrying our bags cuz there’s no carts cuz the course is closed. And so, we get out there. The first hole is a par five. So, I like have to like hammer a driver, you know, like hammer a tee into the ground to get it to stick. You know, we tee off, lay up with my second shot to the perfect lob wedge distance. And I remember sitting there over that ball being like, “All right, let’s see how this goes.” perfect swing right at the flag and then just like the ball bounced off the green because it was frozen solid like it was hitting a cart path. So, we got one more hole in and then we were like calling our moms to come pick us up. But, uh but at least I went out there and did it. And I don’t know if I would do the same these days. I’ I’d enjoy, you know, sitting in the warm cozy pub a little too much. So, especially look, I think it’s different for you growing up in Pebble and sort of being in Carmel. like you’re just gonna go home and that feels like a wasted day, you know? Like if you’ve you’re like, “Ah, we live here. It’s like kind of a waste.” But like if you’re already abroad on a golf trip, like you’re in another culture anyway. So like go and have like a long lunch, go hang in the pub, like go walk around, you know, like you you’ll find a way to like have a great memory out of that day in my opinion. I I I still don’t think it’s worth it. I you know, as much as I could say it was fun playing Carnoui, it was like it was not a fun round and I don’t think I would do it again. But also, you get the the story, right? Like you get the experience of like playing car nasty and nasty weather. And there’s something about that, right? Like if you go if you go to St. Andrews and it’s all nice weather, then you almost don’t get the full experience. Now, obviously, this is like to the to the nth degree, but part of playing Lynx golf is playing in crap weather. Well, the funny part about that is uh is I think I shot like a 92 or a 93 or something as like a as like a one or two handicap index at the time and I played with a guy from the European tour who was like a you know works there is he does media for the DP World Tour and he was like a five and he shot like 75 like yeah he was like whatever this is like how we play and I’m just like god I’m soft I’m so soft I mean it also spoils you being out in California like playing in good weather it’s like life’s too start to be cold and wet. Uh, which really annoys me that I think that way these days cuz I used to I would just do anything to get a club in my hand no matter what. Uh, now I’ll just hit balls on the simulator or something in the office. But, you know, it’s I can’t believe as I say this, I like hate myself. I really am. Like, I should cancel myself as a golfer and remove my Vanity Index card from from play because it’s embarrassing that I don’t want to get out there. But, but no, you’re right. It’s probably good for some stories. If you’ve paid for it, you know, might as well give it a run. And uh yeah, maybe get lucky in the weather breaks. Yeah. Uh we want to hear what you guys are thinking. Hit us up at Vanityindex on Instagram or Scratch on uh Tik Tok or YouTube as well. This has been a fun episode. Us just uh talking about golf and um I’ve really enjoyed it. Yeah, buddy. Well, I know you’re going to be back in LA soon, so we’re uh excited to have you back. Excited to be back together again. And I feel like every time we do these stretches of uh remote recordings, when we get back in the studio together, uh it’s just magic. So, I can’t wait to see a safe travels home and uh you know, hope Sarah breaks a leg in her big uh Broadway premiere again for her new show. So, appreciate that. All right, to all you golf sickos, thanks for listening to the Vanity Index podcast. We’ll see you all again at the first tea. See you guys.