Pat Mayo sits down with PGA Tour pro Michael Kim to break down his French Open victory, his incredible 2025 breakout season, and insights from the Ryder Cup. Kim opens up about what’s changed in his game, what fans can expect during the PGA Swing Season, and which courses suit his eye the most.
👉 Topics include:
* How Michael Kim found his groove in 2025
* Lessons from his French Open win in France
* Ryder Cup takeaways and favorite moments
* Swing Season preview: key PGA Tour courses
* What’s next for Kim heading into 2026
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INDEX
00:00 Intro
00:28 French Open Win
6:28 Ball Speed/Stat Improvement
15:29 Euro Schedule
17:31 PGA Swing Season Courses
29:47 DP World Tour Schedule
41:41 Bermuda/RSM
44:55 Nerves in Contention vs Missing the Cut
48:29 Heart Rate
56:31 Ryder Cup/Talking with Luke Donald
1:12:48 Going on Vacation
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Welcome to the Pat Mayo
Experience presented by Underdog.
We’re doing the quarterly check in with Michael Kim, who is now
the French Open champion. When you got the big trophy in
the giant bottles of champagne, do they do the entire ceremony
in French or do they put it in English?
They definitely did most of it in French and they jokingly told
me, so we’re ready for your French Idol speech.
And I said bonjour and that’s about it.
It’s about the maximum French I could give give them.
When you were standing on 18 with that power putt that ended
up winning with the tournament by one, did you know that was to
win or do you think that was going to be, hey, if I make this
playoff at best, maybe I’ll win Like did you know that like this
is it if I hit this? Yeah, I basically as soon as I
made birdie on 17, I knew I had the solo lead.
And I guess some of the guys like Brooks or Mint and Minumu,
I think they were maybe like 2 back.
But I knew 1818 wasn’t a birdie hole.
So I I was fairly confident that if I made par, I was going to
win the tournament. And you know, I hit it into the
bunker and, and you know, I hit a decent bunker shot, but
hitting the putt, I definitely knew this was most likely for
the win. How was that course?
Because usually they play it at La Club Nationale and this one
was just different for this year.
Is this where they’re going to, you know, if they’re going to
keep having it there or they’re going to go back?
The the decision hasn’t been made yet.
From from what I understand, the golf course was obviously I
liked it. Is is is the very old school
kind of tree lined. You don’t have you don’t need
driver every week. I thought it was maybe like
shades of Detroit Golf Club or something.
Something like tree lined and kind of old school.
Well, it’s funny you like at Detroit like it’s it’s tree
lined, but you can kind of not necessarily spray it everywhere,
but you don’t necessarily have to be in the fairway.
Was that like this one? Yeah, other than a few tee
shots, you, you, there was some room.
I mean, you’d be in a bad spot, but you’d be able to find find
your ball and and, you know, hopefully try and kind of
maneuver your way back to the back to the green, which I had
to do a few. Times How was Wentworth?
Because I that seems like a just weird course to go over in
England and this is the course that you end up playing, not
some sort of extravagant links facility.
Yeah, Wentworth, it was, it was really nice.
It was. It was really pretty
interesting. Course they’re like holes that I
don’t the style design I I don’t see that often like 18 was
really unique 16 to par 5 was was really unique.
Was that 717 to par 5 was really unique.
I just, you know, I was hoping to play a lot better at
Wentworth. Obviously missed the cut.
I was just super rusty and I to be honest, I kind of knew on
Tuesday after how poorly my my practice ground went.
I was like, I don’t think this is going to be a really good
week. What makes the holes unique
versus what we see stateside? It narrows up at a certain point
like whole wine, just like all of a sudden narrows up in the
middle. It was quite windy there too.
You have to be on certain sides of the fairways, otherwise trees
were blocking you out half the time.
And it’s really big dog legs too.
I think it was like hole 4 to par, 5 big dog legs, 16 or 17
and 18 big dog legs. So definitely a very interesting
kind of unique course. So would you tribute a lot of
your play to you? I say you’re giving away one of
your drivers. You’re playing the M2 right?
No, the title is GT2. Yeah the GT2 sorry I I have the
the G2 for the GT now I can’t even remember what the the
numbers and letters are all for I broke my shaft so oh I was
hitting it well, but I think this works out well for me.
I bought the wrong shaft to begin with.
I bought a flex shaft and I need to have like a stiffer shaft.
So I think this might end up helping my game because I bought
it like 2 months ago and I’ve spent two months slicing the
ball into the woods because I just can’t whip it through at
the right speed now. So it, it’s funny for the amount
that like I cover this, I end up playing, I make the stupidest
equipment decisions. Like when I go, I like walk into
a sort of like, oh, that’s this, this is great.
I’ll hit one and be like, yeah, this, this added 30 yards to my
drive. When, when you’re going through
like people are like, I’m sure the people are coming up and
like manufacturers are giving you stuff now tailored to what
you need. Do you ever get some stuff
you’re like, I don’t know about this?
Well, JJ, who’s kind of the head of PJ Tour Titleist, we’ve been
working, he’s been the same. He’s been my guy basically since
I’ve turned pro. And because we’ve had a
relationship for, you know, 10 plus years, he really has a
really good understanding of what, what kind of shafts and
what kind of clubs that I like. So that automatically kind of
gives, gives a much smaller, you know, trial clubs that he’ll
give me to try. But there are many times where
even JG will hand me a club and I hit like two shots and I’m
like Nope, that’s that’s that’s not going to work.
I was looking through I was using the rabbit hole.
Everyone out there can use the rabbit hole.
By the way, Betspurts, golf.com and I just, I brought up your
past 10 years and certain like stats and I don’t know if you, I
mean, I’m sure you know, because you’re dialed into all this
stuff. But your swing speed right now,
you’re sorry your ball speed has gone up by 10 mph like on the
dot from 163 to 173 over the past 10 years.
I know we talked last time about speed training and that stuff
like it. It seems like that’s really
starting to pay huge dividends now.
Yeah, when I was, when I first got on tour, I was really short.
I guess 163 back then wasn’t nearly as short as it would be
right now, I would assume because I felt like if you were
one, if you were over 180 my rookie year, that was like
considered like, oh, wow, like you, you’re almost a long driver
now. Now most of the field averages
at 180. But yeah, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve
always worked on kind of trying to get stronger, trying to get
faster. It’s been kind of a, a, a slow
build. And, and even even this
offseason, I’m, I’m still working on trying to gain some
speed and, and trying to get stronger as well.
You know, I, I’ve kind of come to the realization that I
probably won’t be the straightest driver on the PGA
Tour. So I might as well try and get a
little longer and see if that helps my helps my stats.
Yeah, the the other thing to look at too, like year over
year, I thought this was super interesting.
Like you’re putting numbers were weirdly dictated.
Like I mean it, I mean, I’ll ask you how it like felt to be out
there and what you thought was the difference.
And it’s funny to see it reflected in the data.
But you know, the the putting has been back on the upswing
after like a four year downturn. But to take a look at like the
overall, it was your lag putting through that like bad stretch
and now back into the good stretch where it’s really
positive on leg putting now. So just fewer 3 putts or better
gauge from long distance. Like, do you feel that when
you’re out there or you just feel like you’re just making
more everywhere? I’ve had I’ve putted really
well, I’ve putted decent over the last couple years I’ve.
Last three you’ve been in the last three, Yeah.
I would say like when I was playing my worst and also
putting my worst, I was focusing so much on my full swing and my
especially my driver that I, you know, putting kind of went, you
know, to the wayside where like if I’m putting for R and bogey
all the time, like what good it’s like it’s not going to do
me much good. So, you know, now that I feel
like I have a much better handle on my game, I can, you know,
focus more on, on, you know, stuff like lack putting and, and
what not. But you know, like I was, I’ve
always felt like in college, I was one of the best putters in
college and maybe some in the world.
I think like my first two years, I was a really good putter even
on PGA Tour. So I’ve always felt like I was,
you know, my, my putting is the skill is there.
I just hadn’t tapped into it as as much and, you know, still
trying to, you know, get back to to the form that I had those
first few years on tour. Well, I mean, stats are weird
like that. Like I’ve really noticed like
there’s an inverse correlation between some numbers.
Like if you are a really big hitter, sometimes that the need
is like, you know, your stroke schemed approach isn’t going to
be as good because you just technically have easier approach
shots and everyone else because you’re closer to the whole.
Do you find that like when people will present stats to you
and things like that, they’re like, well that’s true, but it’s
not necessarily the entire story?
Yeah, it’s, you know, strokes gained is is is kind of unique
in that sense where, you know, a guy like Rory who hits driver
350 yards in the fairway, it’s just going to sometimes gets
going to be have a harder time gaining strokes from, you know,
a much shorter number than than than a guy like me.
And, and it’s weird, you know, sometimes in golf, you just, you
know, ride that momentum half the time And, and you know, golf
for, for a little bit feels much easier.
And you’re like, man, like, you know, I, I missed the green.
I just get up and down and it’s, it’s not, it’s not too bad.
And now I brought in some par fives.
I and, you know, I signed my scorecard.
I shoot 68 and, and move on to the next day.
And then there are other times where like, I don’t, I don’t
know how I’m going to, you know, break 72 today.
You know, every, every missed drive ends up in a bunker with a
bad lie and I have to like just barely get it out of the bunker
and I barely get it on the green from there.
And I barely 2 puff for bogey and you’re like, how did I ever
shoot, you know, 68th or better? It’s it’s a.
It’s kind of weird that way sometimes.
Well, I always like to try to break it down like strokes game
is a good metric, but it’s not clearly it has no intent to it A
lot of the time. Like you just kind of said, like
if you’re kind of feeling it and you know you’re going to get it
up and down, like there’s whatever the you know, it’s a
shaved off area and you just think you just put everything to
like spin it to an inch or something and go tap it in
regardless of whether you hit the green or not.
I feel like you would get more aggressive on your approach
shots wouldn’t you to try to stick it near the pin?
Yeah, I think strokes gained is great in or most statistics.
Obviously it’s it’s great in a very, if there’s a lot of sample
size, you know, what’s my strokes gained with my 6 iron
throughout the entire year, you know, that’s that that’s really
useful. But you know, tournament to
tournament, sometimes it can be a little, it can be even almost
a little misleading. Yeah, like if someone kind of
broke it down to me once that I just use like Oakmont as a place
with this, where like if you went pin seeking, you might end
up like 40 feet off the green just because you’re gonna hit
and you’re gonna roll out and that’s going to be the end of
it. They have the pins in places
where it was somewhat protected that everyone just kind of
playing to hit it to 30 feet. A lot of the time.
Unless there was, you know, even like an overdraw that somehow
spun to the right spot or you got away with something or you
had the best lie and you were close to the hole that that’s
not going to reflect well, weirdly enough, like the the mis
hit shot that somehow rolls closer than you were playing is
going to give you better numbers than something that you were
actually trying to do. That if we were able to measure
intent, it would be better that way.
Or or even like if let’s say I hit a T shot way offline to
where you, you normally have no chance, but it gets a really
good lie. And I have like a perfect gap in
the trees. Whereas a different guy hits,
hits it a little offline, but you know, rolls into a into a
bad lie in the bunker to where he needs to pitch out.
You know, strokes gained considers any pitch shot like a
really bad T shot when he might not have hit that bad of a T
shot. And I don’t, I don’t think I, I
don’t get nearly as penalized for hitting a much worse driver
tee shot because I was able to advance it much closer to the
hole. I think that’s how it works.
Yeah, you would get. You would both be basically if
you hit in the same spot, but you were able to get through and
he wasn’t, I think you would be penalized the same for a like
shot off the tee, but your strokes gained approach shot
would be just like infinitely better.
You know, they’d only it was all circumstantial based on where
the ball ended up the first time.
I’m pretty sure that’s how it works anyway.
Just I was thinking about I was thinking about that the other
day. What is the intent of this?
Like guys who will end up missing it way right because
they know that left is death, but they missed the fairway by
so much. They get hugely penalized.
Not so much that, you know, if they hit it in the water, that
would obviously be way worse or at a bounce to the left.
But they know they can. Like Min Woo in Houston last
year where he’s just like, yeah, fucking.
I’ll bomb it anywhere and we all figure it out from there.
Yeah, exactly. You know, sometimes like I think
he hit into the water on 16 right.
And you know, there’s like a country mile left that you can
hit it to. So it’s, it’s definitely, it’s
definitely looking at it, you know, from from permanent or
even by hole by hole bases. It can.
It can vary pretty wildly. Why was it that you went over to
Europe this year? Just something new to do.
I mean, it worked so good, good choice in doing it, but is it
because you got into these tournaments?
What was it? Yeah, so through the partnership
with the DP Tour and the PGA Tour, the, some of the tour guys
are allotted spots on, on a lot of the European Tour events now.
And because I’m, you know, inside the top 50, I, I don’t, I
can’t really improve my FedEx Cup standing if I was playing
the PGA Tour tournament here this week.
And so I felt like it was a, a cool opportunity to go to play,
go play golf to, to places where I haven’t played golf, like
Wentworth, which, you know, every European Tour or DP Tour
players told me great things about.
And, you know, while I was there, I, I said, well, you
know, French Opens, right next week.
It’s pretty close to Paris. And I think I’ll enjoy that.
So decide to check out some of these European Tour tournaments.
So does that mean you have to go back to the French Open every
year now? I mean, may hope, hopefully I
play well enough in in my regular PGA Tour season that I I
can and we’ll see how if they go back to the Golf National, how
much I like it there. But I will certainly make many
efforts to go back to the French Open.
Did it? I guess obviously there’s so
much like crossover between the DP schedule and the PGA
schedule, but there were a couple tournaments like pre
Ryder Cup that I saw a lot of people ended up going to play,
obviously Wentworth being one of them.
French Open. Did you have any interest in
playing? Like if you were to do it, you
like if let’s say you make Eastlake next year and then
there’s a few tournaments after. I think there’s like the Check
Masters, the Swiss Masters, the Danish tournament.
Like, is that just too much golf at some point if you play deep
into the season? If I played the port champion,
I, I, there’s definitely was a chance that I might not have
played like Wentworth in the French Open this year.
You know, I think I look at some of these tournaments or where I
watch it on TV and like, wow, like, that looks like a really
cool spot, like the Swiss Open. The Swiss one looks awesome.
This. One looks so cool and everyone
you talk to at the European, any of the European guys, they, they
talk such good things about it. And really this year I, I wanted
to go, but I was so tired after the BMW Championship event that
I was just, I, I can’t, I, I need, I, or I would like to have
at least, you know, more than two weeks off, which would have
been the case for the Swiss Open.
So, you know, I, I definitely see myself going to, you know,
Swiss Open would be one, South Africa would be, would be
another. Yes, a lot of these, you know,
kind of really cool spots where the tournament is is also a
great excuse to check out some some places I haven’t been.
I know you’re heading over to Japan for, you know, the next
PGA tournament, which is when people are probably watching
this as like the the back end of the preview show for that.
What do you know about the course?
I saw you played there in 2023. So it’s a different course now
too. It’s now it’s in a different,
slightly different location. I briefly talked to Hideki about
it when we played together at Wyndham.
Supposedly it’s very tree lined, very narrow, you know, more kind
of old school in that sense. And you know, I no one, no one
really knows because I don’t know if anyone has really played
there other than some of the Japanese players.
But supposedly it’s it’s going to be a good course.
And that week is is easily one of my favorite weeks of the year
going to Japan. They have a, they bring out a, a
sushi chef and player dining that I usually stand in line way
too long for and order way too much.
And it’s a it’s a no cut event, which everyone in the field
loves, and it’s just an awesome week.
How many? Like you get Asian Tour players
and maybe not Asian Tour players.
There’s a lot of Japanese Tour players, like four or five of
them in this tournament too, isn’t there?
Yeah, anytime, anytime. It’s like a foreign
international tournament. The tour always gives like a
number of spots for that that country’s best players.
So there will be, I would assume you know, 5 to 10 Japanese, the
top Japanese players playing. Oh yeah, the the Yokohomo
Country Club. So it’s not in Tokyo either
then? It’s it’s like about 45 minutes
to an hour just South of of Tokyo I believe, so not not that
far away. OK.
Yeah, it seems like it’s longer to par 7173 hundred.
I think the other one, the Accordia, whatever that one was,
the one where they played the Olympics, that was like a pretty
short course, wasn’t it? Yeah, lots of dog likes too,
which kind of limited, you know, how much you could take on.
That was a very kind of interesting course, like dating
toll there. Like you wanted to carry the
corner with the tree ’cause you were you had to lay it like
40-50 yards back, but it was so narrow to where you’re trying to
kind of cut the corner there. And they have all these like
double greens where there’s one green on the sorry, one green on
the left and another green on like a separate green on the
right. And on the one of the part
threes they would used the left green on Thursday and Saturday
and the right green on Friday, Sunday.
It’s kind of unique. Oh, so instead of having the
room to move tee boxes back, they can adjust the yardage
based on which green they use? Yeah, and there was like if I
remember correctly, there was like 1 water hazard in the
middle of both greens. So it it played like a a much
different hole. Do you like that or is that just
like weird? When you go day-to-day, it’s
like this hole is not the same. It is, it is weird, but we kind
of they kind of told us that that they’d be doing this.
So you’d have to check out both both sides I thought.
I thought it was pretty cool. I think they do it more for like
maintenance reasons to where they can give one green kind of
a bit of a break while the other gets some use.
What do you? I’m going to play Black Desert.
My wife and I are having another kid that’s in March.
That’s usually when I go on my big golf trip.
Then I’m going to Black Desert. Now obviously they’re playing
the PGA Tour event there, I think in two weeks after this
one. Did you go, you didn’t play it?
You didn’t play Japan last year, so you didn’t go like Japan to
Utah. Are a lot of people going to do
that? Because that sounds awful.
At the very least, there is one week off this time around.
So there you can, you know, you have, you’ll have a few days off
Black desert, really cool place. You can even check out.
It’s a, it’s a bit of a drive. It’s about 45 minutes away if I
remember. But Zion National Park is, is
fantastic. But the golf course, it’s like
the type of golf course where I, I, I’m not a big fan of like
it’s, it’s the, it’s like desert kind of golf where you have, you
have fairway and then outside the fairway, it’s like, who
knows what can happen? You could lose your ball.
It could be under a rock. It’s just like really bad if you
miss fairway. I, I prefer courses where they
let, they let you find it and hit, hit it, hit the next one
from where it ends up there. Like I hit it off a couple
rocks. You know, a couple clubs got
dinged up because of it. It wasn’t exactly my my styles
course. The the first time I played
desert golf was at Summerlin actually like 10 years ago and
they came out and they they were like, here’s your desert club.
It was like a four iron that you have to hit.
I was like, what do you mean like a separate club?
Yeah, I just it playing where I’ve always played in the
courses I’ve been to. It never registered for me that,
Oh no, you’re going to like destroy your clubs if you go
play here all the time. Yeah, yeah, at least Summerlin.
I’ve I’ve played decently well there, at least Summerlin, other
than like a few holes. They have you have room at least
on on the other side, like like 2.
There’s all desert, right, But you have quite a room, quite a
bit of room left, but black desert there’s there’s no
bailout. I mean, the fairways itself are
decently wide, but as soon as you miss the fairways the ball
is probably gone and it’s basically out of bounds.
You have to remember I don’t know where the ball is going
when I hit it. Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s
even harder. It’s even harder, you know, at
least, you know, make us pros. But at least when we’re playing
well, we can kind of kind of figure it out.
But yeah, that that course isn’t isn’t for me.
Yeah, you can at least shape it to the side where there’s not
the desert and they’re like, yeah, I’ll be in the rough over
there. That’s OK.
Well, can you tell me about El Cardinal?
I was like, I actually walked that course when I was in Cabo.
It seemed really cool, like really open.
Really was there I that that’s more by type of golf course.
The I joke that the 1st hole there I could you could spin me
around blindfolded and I think I and you give me a club and I
think I can hit the fairway there.
That that place. The fairways are just so
massively wide and a lot of the greens kind of bowl or feed into
other areas. I really enjoy it and I probably
would have played, but I’m, I’m playing the Abu Dhabi event and
it was ADP Tour, tour now, so I’ll skip that one this year.
But I, I, I very much enjoy, enjoy that tournament.
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What do you have to do? Do you know in the Abu Dhabi
tournament to get into? There’s the one the next week
the Tour Championship isn’t there?
Yeah. So in order to get into Abu
Dhabi, you have to be 7 top 70 in the Race to Dubai rankings.
And for next week, it’s it’s for the Dubai one, it’s top 50.
I’m currently 35th, I think after the French Open win.
And I’ll be kind of knocked down since I won’t play the next few
tournaments. But I think I assume I’ll be
maybe like 50th by the time Abu Dhabi gets gets here and I’ll
have to play a little. I have to play OK to advance to
the next one in Dubai. Have you played in the Middle
East before? I’ve not only have I never
played, I’ve never been, which is I’m pretty excited to, to
check out Abu Dhabi, kind of watching, you know, guys like
Tiger and Rory play those tournaments at each year.
It’s definitely one of the places I’ve I’ve wanted to check
out and and pretty excited to go this year.
And you guys here, is that the back-to-back way?
So if you do qualify for the Tour Championship, that’s in
Dubai, right? Correct, Correct.
It’s like middle early, early to mid November and hopefully I’ll
be finishing the year out at at Dubai you.
See, that’d be nice, and maybe you get an invite to the hero
too, who knows. That, that.
Now that would be fantastic. Where is that still in like
Bahamas? Yeah, I’m pretty sure.
I’m pretty sure it is. Yeah.
I think they go basically straight off of world ranking.
So, you know, maybe some, some couple, couple more good weeks
and I’ll I’ll be able to play that one too.
Well, thinking like just thinking about we, we basically
talked this time last year, we first ended up doing the show.
Now you’re up to 31st in the world.
That’s, that’s going to get you into the Masters automatically.
I would guess that you can’t follow 19 spots in the course of
four months when no one’s really playing golf, right?
Fingers crossed. I, I certainly hope so, you
know, hope I’m looking forward to not be on kind of nice edge
of two weeks before trying to figure out if I’ll, if I’m in
playing the Masters or not. Hopefully I have a bit more time
to plan it out this time around. Well, how different is this for
you? Like you’re, you’re picking and
choosing your schedule, you’re trying to get in the DP World
Tour Championship. You need to play like one event
just and play pretty well in it just to get enough points and
then boom, you’re, you know, playing for huge money, huge
world ranking points, these strong fields.
You don’t have to worry about calling for qualifying for
signature events next year. You’re in some of the majors.
Like how different is this than at any other point over the past
10 years? No, it’s, it’s awesome.
You know, it’s but it’s also like, you know, golf does an
awesome job, the tour and the schedule does an awesome job.
There’s always like a new carrot dangling.
There’s always a new carrot, you know, like last year.
It’s like I want to be top 50 to play in the, in the signature
events, all of them for next year.
And now, you know, after watching the US lose at the
Ryder Cup, it’s like, wow, I really want to play.
I’ve obviously wanted to play before, but now I feel like I’m
in a spot with my game to where I can actually contend to, you
know, try and be on one of those teams.
So, you know, next year, trying to make the Presidents Cup is an
absolute carrot that’s in front of me that I really want to
make. You know, I would finish 31st.
So the Tour Championship is, is, is the kind of the next carrot
for me. And it’s a, it’s an awesome,
it’s awesome that I’ve kind of moved along this much in my pro
career. And, you know, hopefully I keep
it going. Did Victor know what he did to
you when he made that birdie on the 72nd hole?
So I haven’t asked him about that yet.
Now that you mentioned, I’ll definitely have to ask him.
I, I personally knew that if he made this, that it was most
likely going to knock me off. Whether he knew, I, I doubt that
he knew at the time. I only knew because I checked
the projected standings on AT&T and I knew how how close it was.
So that’s why I knew when he made the putt.
I, I, I doubt that he knew. Although I think my caddy told
Shay while Victor was hitting the putt like, hey, like if your
if your boy make makes this, we’re out of the of the Tour
Championship. I think Shay might have told
Victor after he made it while I was putting out my 3 footer for
par that like, yeah, you, you knocked Michael out because he
he in the handshake. It wasn’t like like his kind of
normal like cheerful selves, kind of like a like, sorry, but
you know, nice playing with you. Yeah, I’m trying to make birdie
here. Sorry.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, that’s a bummer. Get there next year.
It’s going to be fine. I I mean, I saw you in Memphis
when you were playing the practice round.
What happened with that course? Like you played so hard it felt
like if you missed the fairway there, how screwed were you?
You know it, that course is always tough and the Greens were
were new I think that year, so they were much firmer.
But what’s that that hole I saw you on the Part 3 is that was
that 15? Yeah, it was, it was 14.
That’s the like to you. If anyone makes a birdie they
sell beer for like 2 bucks for 5 minutes.
Yeah, because no one makes birdie on the hole because it’s
so hard. That hole had my number.
I I made, I think I made I now that now you’re bringing just
bad flashbacks. But I made double like the first
three days and then I like took an improper drop that got that
got me penalized on on Saturday or Sunday.
I, I remember the first day I hit it to like where you’re
supposed to into that bunker and then the bunker didn’t have any
sand in it because everyone had been missing in that bunker.
And I like scold my or basically half scold my bunker shot went
into the water and got up and down for double or something.
And that wasn’t that wasn’t my whole that week.
You were not the only one to go bunker to water on that.
I ran to Min Woo when he was. I saw him like the day before
and I knew he was going out by himself.
On the final day I saw him. I got there late on Sunday
because I had to. I had to go to the course then I
had to go catch a plane and get out of there as quickly as
possible to get back home. And he had played by himself.
I think he finished the rattle like 2 hours.
I saw him. I saw him walking out when I was
walking and I was like, how’d it go?
He’s like, Get Me Out of here. It’s it’s such a hot week too,
that it’s so hot and the course is really hard.
And if you’re, you know, if you’re, if you’re in a position
like him and I were, where you’re kind of so far back that,
you know, even if you shoot like 65, you, you, you, you make like
6 more points in the FedEx. Where now that I think about it,
it might have been the difference between the Tour
Championship. But at the moment it’s hard to,
it’s hard to think about. It’s a it’s a tough spot.
Is that where like the guys from the South have a big advantage
because they’re used to that heat?
Because like me being from Canada, it’s not like it was
markedly different temperature wise.
Like obviously it was a little bit hotter.
It was just the type of heat was so different.
I think, I think now if you’ve played on the PGA Tour long
enough, you’re, you’re hopefully your body kind of gets used to
it, you know, But like Bermuda rough for me still is a quite,
quite challenging compared to rye where I, I feel like the
guys in the South that have played all their lives, they,
they can judge the lie better. They they have a better
understanding of, you know, when it jumps, when it doesn’t, how
to hit chip shots from the Bermuda rough.
That’s I feel like that’s when they have a bit more of an
advantage. I noticed there was 1 hole I was
following around Victor and Glover actually, and they were
both kind of stymied by this tree.
I think it was hole 15 or 16 where it’s like a really long
drive. Everyone was kind of missing it,
right? Tough fairway to hit, then like
you’re over a little bit of a hazard up into a green and
somehow like Victor took a big hack at it.
Everyone was taking a big hack at it and Glover played this
like low, probably 6 iron under the tree that went like 190.
It was like Oh my God I’ve never seen anyone do this before.
Just he just knew the shot and knew the lie, and no one else
could seemingly figure it out. Yeah, yeah, some.
Or sometimes, like if you’re in someone’s divot in Bermuda,
Rough actually kind of helps out because you have better access
to the ball and you don’t get like the crazy jumper.
I remember like Ryan Fox hit it, not that he’s from the South,
but I, I just remember the shot on, on 16 where he hit it in the
left rough and he had like 240, but he had a good enough lie
where he hit this like hit his second shot so high that I just
assumed that he was laying up. And all of a sudden, like people
around the green were like clapping and, and I looked, I
was like, did you just hit the green?
He goes, he goes, yeah, I just hit, hit my 6 yard as high and
as hard as I possibly could. And it came off like a rocket.
So it’s Bermuda rough is just super tricky, man.
It’s, it’s, it’s all these jumpers and, and whatnot.
It’s it’s, it’s really challenging.
Yeah, I was actually looking. I was, I was going through the
rabbit hole again, just trying to see like over the past was
it? I have it set to, I think it’s
past the past two years. Like yeah, you can kind of tell
like the your Florida style splits actually aren’t bad
because you played well in Florida.
But like anything West Coast, you are like a stroke better per
round than anywhere else. That sounds about right.
I I guess the florist, yeah, the florist Swing, it’s, it’s
changed a little bit now because so much of they’ve just
overseeded so much of the courses now, like Bay Hill is
overseeded PGA National. I feel like one of the reasons
why I played well there this year compared to years prior is
that it’s just over seated. So I feel, I just feel much more
comfortable now. But yeah, I’m from the West
Coast, so just maybe I just need to stay West of Texas or
something. Do they, do they tell you what
they’re doing with the Plantation course?
Because I saw the tournament champions isn’t going to be
there. Are they just like canceling the
Tournament of Champions now? Yeah.
I think it’s still going to happen.
It’s just they’re trying to figure out where the best spot
is. I mean, I’ve heard like, all I
hear is just rumors of like, it might be in Florida, it might be
at Vegas and might be in California.
So no one really, maybe some do, but I don’t know exactly where
we’re going to be. The bummer.
I, you know, starting the year at Kapalua is like one of the
coolest things you could do. Everyone’s like so relaxed.
There’s like excited about the year.
You’re starting it right at Kapalua.
So it’s a it’s a definitely a bummer that the year I I
finished top 50. We’re not going there, but
hopefully they can figure out out a good spot.
Well, it kind of screws the Sony Open too, doesn’t it?
Because at least like a handful, like 10 to 15 guys usually hung
around to play in that tournament.
If it’s not going to be in Hawaii, I imagine none of the
none of the top 50 players from the year before will play in the
Sony. Like for sure, you know, I’ve
heard like some rumors of it might even be in Florida and
like who’s going to, I, I, I love the Sony Open tournament.
I play it every year and I absolutely would have played it
this year after Kapalua. But like, who is going to who’s
willing to, if you’re finished top 50 last year going from
Florida, it’s like legitimately like 11 hours to try and get to
Hawaii. I mean, you could go to Paris
much, way faster than Hawaii. So it’s, that’s, it’s, you’re
right, it’s definitely not going to be good for the Sony open
field unless they find somewhere in Hawaii or or in maybe in
California. I I think the Sony open like the
Sony now that the heritage is a signature event.
It’s ruined the heritage for me and for reasons I just I I like
to see the entire field with a cut line play heritage.
I feel like it’s a tournament where anyone can kind of beat
anyone if they’re playing well that week.
I kind of feel the same way about why lie.
There’s there’s something about that tournament that maybe it’s
because it’s the second one of the year.
It’s the first full field event of the year.
It feels like golf is actually back.
I know most people don’t feel that way until.
Phoenix or farmers or what? Whatever, Pebble Beach, but for
Sony, like I, I love that tournament so much that I, I
like to see some of the big names go there and like have to
Duke it out with your guys. Just coming up from the Korn
Fairy Tour, It’s a lot of fun. Yeah, you know, you can see who
took their offseason super seriously, who’s clearly rusty.
You know, that course is short and you don’t have to hit driver
everywhere, but you still need to step up and hit some really
good tee shots and second shots. The fairies are usually baked
out so the ball just run. So you need to be pretty precise
with with with it all. And it’s it’s just in Hawaii.
So, and at the start of the year, everyone’s just everyone’s
just super excited about the about the year and they have all
these hopes and dreams of, of, of the year.
And then like Friday afternoon comes around.
Then you see like guys on their like knees like like what did I,
you know this like a play terrible again or or something
like that. What are the core?
What’s the Port Royal course like in Bermuda?
Is that is. That’s a super short 1 isn’t.
It very short. It’s just really, really windy.
Like there’s this par 4, the 11th hole, it’s like 4-4, maybe
4:40, I’m going to guess down, but it’s straight downhill,
straight down when and you’ve hit a good tee shot, like you’re
within like, I don’t know, 50 yards is a green and then the
next hole is like 380, but it’s straight uphill and straight
into the wind and you RIP a driver.
And I think sometimes you have like 8 or 7 iron and the hole
itself is really short. So it’s a lot of undulations
and, and, but with really strong winds.
And the hardest Part 3 in the world that I’ve played is the
let’s see the 16th hole there. It’s got that famous hole water
all the way down the left, the winds like howling into you off
the left. So everyone just misses way
right. So, yeah, I, I played well there
last year. So I, I, I I like, I liked it.
Yeah, it feels like it’s a lot of like wedges and putting based
on the players like that, this skill type that’s played well
there in the past. It is it is wide enough to where
driver isn’t such a big deal or you can even you can play pretty
conservative and not feel like you’re losing too much strokes
there. So I could, I could definitely
see see that. Yeah, what, what with the RSM
where they split it the the first two days between those two
courses, are those courses like drastically different because it
feels like 1’s way longer is? Yeah, I mean, is it which,
which, which one’s way longer is?
Is, well, there’s, I think it’s the plantation, yeah.
Plantation’s a par 72 as like the extra par fives on it, I
guess. I guess that’s where the
distance comes in. It scoring just seems like it’s
always a lot easier at the Plantation course.
Yeah, it’s it’s a bit more straightforward, I would say
where where a seaside, like every hole is like a little dog
left or a little dog right with some marsh in in kind of on one
side. I’ve I always feel like I should
play better there and I’ve played decent there in the past.
But I think at that point everyone, you’re either super
tired and just kind of ready to be ready for the season to end
or you’re like PGA Tour cards on the line.
So it’s like a really nerve, nerve and tense atmosphere for
some. You see lots of different kinds
of emotions there for sure. Well, I wanted to ask you about
that because I mean you’re coming off.
That’s why one of the reasons I wanted to ask you about did you
know that you know that putt that you had was for the win in
France? Like when you get nervy and in
contention or or whatever, are you trying to hold your tour
card or knowing you need this one stroke to make the cut later
on? What’s like the first thing that
usually goes? Is it a club?
Is it like, you know, 1/2 inch on the putter?
Like I mean, it’s obviously different for each person.
What? What do you find it is for you
that like, uh oh, like I I know this is coming and now I know I
need to fix this. There, I feel like there it’s
similar response, like you’re obviously your heartbeat goes
crazy and and you’re really nervous.
But when I’m in contention and I’m nervous, I do feel a bit
more in control to where I know I’m playing well.
I know the things that I’m trying to do with my swing and
in my game is working. So sometimes it it really helps
me focus on the shot at hand and the the nerve sometimes help
help out. Like my second shot into 17 at
the French Open where like, you know, I had a really good number
was like a pitching wedge that I, you know, it’s like a smooth
sawed off pitching ways that I’ve had, you know, a hundreds
and thousands of different times to where I was like, all right,
you know, this is this is kind of the opportunity to really
step up and kind of hit the shot, you know, to win you the
tournament. And I was able to hit an awesome
shot and I was able to really felt really focused during that
shot. But other times where you’re
like, you know, where you’re about to miss the cut and you
need like a couple good holes to make the cut, but your game’s
not in a great shape. Like I am playing the last hole.
Let’s see if you need birdie. Like those times I almost feel
way worse than I do playing the last couple holes of the
tournament that I might win just because, you know, things are
probably not working very well. I’m like throwing things at the
wall, seeing what sticks. And that’s and I might be way
more nervous during like a a tournament I’m contending in,
but I’m way more like anxious about, you know, how is my swing
is my for me, it’s all it’s always going to be the driver.
Like, you know, am I going to be able to hit the hit the next tee
shot in the fairways to at least give me a chance at birdie to
make the cut or, or make par or like, you know, like sawgrass is
a perfect example, like trying to hit the fairway on 18.
You know, it is to make and you have to make parberry to make
the cut. That’s that’s that’s a much more
daunting task in in my mind. Do you wear a whoop and track
your heart rate during the rounds?
I used to especially during COVID but I don’t anymore.
I don’t wear it anymore just because I, I didn’t enjoy the
I’m sorry, I didn’t enjoy the like tracking my sleep where I
would wake up and I would check the app just to see like how
well I slept. And you know, you get a number
and if you, you know, you wake up and you feel like you slept
OK, But if the number shows that you slept poorly, like did I
sleep poorly? Like am I, am I going to play
bad because I slept poorly? It’s just like I I’m a pretty
good sleeper anyway, so I I decided not to wear that
anymore. That makes sense.
I mean, what watching the Ryder Cup and seeing like they had JT
done up with, I think, I think he’s sponsored by whoops.
They had his heart rate up at all the times.
I thought the poor guy was going to have a heart attack if his
heart rate was going that way for four straight hours.
It was. It was.
Tough. So it back in like the COVID
times in like 2020, which also was when I was playing my
absolute worst. So I would look at my heartbeat
on like like the first tee shot on Thursday or Friday.
It wouldn’t be the weekend because I’ve missed the cut, but
because the heartbeat also measures like your calories
based on the heartbeat. Like it would show on like a
really hot day. I would be burning like 3000
calories just because I was so on edge of my swing and like
trying to perform and like I’ve having no idea where the driver
was going and I didn’t really have a good mental process to
deal with that. And, and I was just the, there’s
like how hard you worked during that session was like at like
super, super high because I was on such edge during the entire
tournament. It was wasn’t wasn’t the
prettiest thing to look at afterwards.
Did you spend a lot of time working on that?
Because you just mentioned that you didn’t have the right mental
preparation to get over that or being able to adjust.
And obviously, you know, you can hit your driver pretty well now.
You’re not missing cuts every single week now.
What was that process? Yeah, it’s, I still have it
some, I mean, I don’t think I’ll ever like that.
Like performance anxiety. I, I, I don’t know if I’ll ever
like go away, nor do I think it’s right if, if I don’t have
any going to a term, I feel like it must mean that I just
completely have stop caring for, for for my golf performance.
You’ll be like Scotty, just feel like win or lose, it doesn’t
matter. Maybe, maybe, maybe, but you
know, I, I didn’t, I worked on it, which which really helped,
but I, I didn’t start feeling much calmer until I knew I had
my swing under control. And you know, through my work
with Sean to where it, you know, I could try and like do all
these breathing, breathing stuff, this mindful stuff,
meditation, I could do all that. But if the golf balls going
completely sideways, it wasn’t, it wasn’t going to do me.
It’s going to be better, but it wasn’t going to really just
knock it down by a bunch. And it wasn’t until where I
started hitting and I started seeing the ball go much
straighter to where I, I started feeling better.
And and now with the, with, with my ball going much straighter,
now the the mindfulness and, and the meditation and the breathing
with that had synergy and allow me to perform a lot, a lot
better. Well, how early do you show up
to the course? Before before a tournament
round, it’s usually like 2 hours 15 minutes.
Before what? What’s the split between like
range and putting? So I, I generally eat before I
do anything. So I’ll have like a breakfast
or, or lunch or whatever it is and then I go to either I see my
physio or I go to the gym and do like a quick 15 minute warm up.
And then about an hour or 55 minutes before my round, it’s
kind of depending on how hot it is.
If it’s like if it was as hot as like Memphis was, it’s, it’s
probably like closer to 45 minutes just because you get
warmed up so quickly. You don’t have to hit that many
golf balls. But you know that 55 minutes,
I’ll puff for 10 and I’ll chip for another 10 to 15, go to the
range and then come back, hit a few more putts and then and then
I’m off. I’m off, I’m off.
You said it wasn’t that big of a deal for like if you’re playing
on tour for a while, like dealing with that heat.
I was watching the Alfred Dunhill and does it work the
other way? Like if you’re not used to
playing in cold or wet conditions, like really cold
conditions, like does that screw?
Like, I mean, you’re, you’re from the West Coast.
I I doubt it gets as cold as it does where I’m at.
Or is it doesn’t Scotland, something like that?
Is it harder going from hot to cold than cold to hot?
Yeah, it’s a good question. I I do believe maybe more so
than cold is it’s, it’s the rain.
It’s like how comfortable can you be playing in a rain jacket
or rain suit? Because that, that is of itself
can be weird. Can you like sometimes,
sometimes where like the water on the club gets it into the
perfect spot where you feel like you made a really good swing and
the ball just kind of behaves in a, in a really different way
where it kind of knuckles and, and just kind of goes really
wild. I, I like to think that
sometimes it’s the ball and not 100% me hitting their shots too.
But yeah, it, it can be really tricky.
Like I remember hearing from Sean that in the summer, like a
month before the British Open in Florida, Tiger would hit balls
in his rain jacket to see how his swing would react.
And this is like when it’s, you know, in June in Florida and
it’s like 100° in humid where he’d be sweating like crazy, but
he’d be hitting balls in a rain jacket to see what he needed to
do with the swing for the ball to go much straighter.
Have you used many of those we talked about air miles last or
just like credit card points last time you’ve been cashing
those in or or can you expense all of that because you’re
technically an independent contractor?
Yeah. So it’s, I don’t use points for
like the travel. I’m going for tournaments
because those are business expense that I can, I can take
off from my you know, tax payment and what not.
But but if you went to a, if you went to a course and played a
round of golf as like practice, couldn’t you then do that?
I you know it’s you know, everything goes until you get
audited. Once you get you know, they just
you know, if you if it, if you could, you know, I could, I
could say a beautiful watch is a is a business expense and just
go go that route too. But you have to wear it on TV if
that’s going to be the I learned that one the hard way about what
I can expense and what I can expense that if they, if they
can see it like on the show on TV, you know, you’re playing in
a, in a tournament round, you might be depending on the
creativity of your accountant, you might be able to fudge that.
Gotcha. You know like most now my CK, if
he’s listening he’s going to say no, no, no.
But you know, from my experience, you can do not that
I do, I not that I do I’m by the book, but you can, I hear about
things where guys just throw weird stuff as business expense.
And as long as you don’t get audited and you get cleared,
it’s OK. You won’t get penalized for it.
And, and technically it worked. But once you get audited, they
then you’re really screwed because you have to pay the
penalties on top of that. So I mean, you can, you can get
creative and, and in that if you if you choose, but the more
creative you get is probably your, your dance around that,
that line. When I first started, I had like
the most crooked accountant in the world.
I didn’t realize that until later and I had to switch
accountants. But he basically told me he’s
like, look, it’s like just keep some money in reserve because
even if you get audited, you’ll always end up paying less than
you actually owe. Because if it’s a bigger sum of
money, then they’ll take like 60% of the money and call it
square. It’s the people that can’t like
have saved nothing to pay that off.
He’s like, in the long run, you’re going to come out ahead.
I was like, OK, let’s do that. Turned out that is not a great
idea. It’s.
Certainly, certainly one way to look at it.
I, I, I, I, I I don’t think I’ll be partaking in that and that.
When I was 22 I was like, that sounds like a great idea.
It does sound like a great idea if it ends up working.
Yeah, it didn’t. Yeah, don’t do that.
Were you glued to the TV watching the Ryder Cup or did
you like tap out on Saturday? Be like, can’t watch this
anymore? I, I was like really Ryder Cups,
one of those events that I make sure to watch.
It’s not that many anymore that I, that I make sure to watch
golf wise. But, you know, I was really
watching Friday morning, watched I, well, I was also waking up
like super early because of, I was still, you know, dealing
with the time change from France and whatnot.
So I was watching it Thursday morning or Friday morning, a
little bit Saturday morning. I didn’t watch any Saturday
afternoon. And then I went to practice,
came back on Sunday and I was like, yeah, you know, we’ll see.
I’ll turn it on for like 10 minutes, see what happens.
And then within, at that time, like within 5 minutes, I feel
like I think Justin Thomas or Cam Young made his putt.
Justin Thomas made this putt. And then at that point I was, I
was glued, rooting, rooting hard.
Yeah, if Bryson had just come up a little bit longer on his
second shot on 18, it felt like it may have.
If Bryson was able to finish out with that birdie and come back
and win that match, it felt like maybe it was going to be like
the full swing with it. But I think it’s easy to point
to like what? Why things went right, why
things went wrong, decision making.
But over a three day tournament, isn’t a lot of it just random?
Yeah, I mean, you think, but you know, you’re being the only guys
to have ever won an away Ryder Cup within within maybe like
30-30 years or, or however long it’s been hearing.
I, I spent a decent amount of time with Luke Donald a few days
ago, just we had an outing together and, and just hearing
the level of detail that he tries to put into and some of
his thoughts and, and things were, you know, I remember
talking to him a year before and he was so, you know, trying to
think about like the messaging and, and whatever what the team
run, the detail, the detail that he went into.
I think it’s just hard to just hard to do it for, for Keegan,
especially when when he was trying to play his way on and he
was trying to play well himself. So it was a it was just going to
be a tough job for him regardless.
Do you think he should have taken himself?
Because I was always under the impression that if it was me,
not that like, oh, I’m the captain, I’m going to pick
myself and go play. Is that at least the burden
falls on your shoulders and you had something to do with it?
That like, if if it’s you being the captain of 12 guys and like
one guy plays poorly or you make the wrong decision, at least if
you make the wrong decision with you on the team, you have a
chance to like, you know, play your way out of it and try to
win that way. That was always my thought on
it. But everyone seemed to be like,
Nah, you can’t do both. It would be too hard.
Too hard. It seems like anyone that I’ve
talked to that I’ve had the captain job says they think it’s
like a really bad idea because you you just have a lot to to
juggle and it and the captain and more than that, the captain
captain job itself is so stressful.
You’re not, you know, you’re getting almost, you know, Luke
was telling me he wakes up in the middle of night thinking
about stuff and all these decisions that you have to
weigh. Just the, the overall like
mental stress of the, of the of the week as a captain is, is
even higher than as a player, at least it was for for Luke and
some of the other captains I talked to.
So, you know, they’ve, they’ve done it and I haven’t.
So I I kind of go with their thinking that it’s probably not
the best idea trying to do both. I might be way off base here,
and if I am, tell me that I’m just wrong about this.
But I wrote it before the tournament.
I ended up betting Europe because it seemed to make the
most sense to me with when they told us the way that they were
setting up that course, shortening it a bit, really
trimming down the rough, making it like very playable out of the
rough, which, you know, honestly at Bethpage, that’s kind of the
whole thing about that course is how hard it is that they made
the course easier. Now Europe goes out and makes
all these pots the first two days, and maybe that’s really
what the difference ended up being.
But even if you took a look at like the the seven longest
drivers in the Ryder Cup, or actually I think it’s 8, the six
of the top eight were European. They were all just mashers off
the team. It’s like they set up the course
for the American team five years ago, not the American team that
they had. Yeah, I, I, I don’t know exactly
kind of what the thinking rationale was trying to make the
course easier. It does seem like like to me, I,
I look at, I’m not blaming it on Scotty, but like the fact that
the number one player and the the best player in the world had
such a bad record to me. And, you know, you just need
your you need your horses to really get you many points.
And and you know, it’s just an easy set up like that where, you
know, the shot quality just isn’t as important.
And it’s just it’s, you know, a bit more of an A bit more of an
iron and putting contest probably doesn’t suit Scotty’s
game as as much, I guess kind of the theory.
That would be that was my theory on the whole thing, like the
heart of the course, the better Scotty’s going to play like that
really shows his skill level versus everyone.
And even when you get to the back end, like I know Griffin
ended up beating Rasmus, but like if you make that course
tighter and super tough out of the rough, like that’s a huge
advantage for someone like Ben Griffin, Russell Henley,
Morikawa Harris English. Like it elevates those guys to
where if you just make it a Bombers contest, like the back
end of that European team is like, I’ll bomb and gout, sure,
why not? Yeah, it’s, you know, to be
honest though, but I I don’t know if it would have mattered a
ton. Like I think, I think they’re I
think they were think Europe was going to win regardless.
And it seems like the US always crushes it in singles because it
always feel like the US crushes it there.
But I think, I think, I think it could have been long rough.
I think they would have still figured out how to how to win.
Well, maybe that’s really the difference right there that the
US does usually clean up in singles in a lot of these
competitions. Is that the difference between
the European team and the American team?
Like when you’re growing up and you’re golfing, like how much of
your golf experiences outside of college is team golf?
And even in college, is it really like team golf or you
just a guy on a team and you’re still just a solo really.
Yeah, I mean team, I mean college golf is, is team golf.
But you you’re playing your ball and you’re just, you’re just
adding up the scores. I mean, that’s not really.
It’s not like it is in the Ryder Cup.
It is like when I play there’s a right classic with a partner.
It is very like foursomes is very, very tricky.
You’ve played your entire life playing your own ball the entire
way and to like, to not hit putts for like the, you know,
for like 8 holes straight and then all of a sudden you have
like a 50 footer up up the Ridge.
Like it’s that it’s, you know, it can, it’s, it’s, it’s not
like the shot itself might not be hard, but because you’re just
out of rhythm and you just not used to it, it can be jarring in
that sense. Or if you have like, you know, 6
footer downhill, left, right slider all of a sudden for, for
par that you know, your partner just left you with it.
It can be, it’s, it’s very tricky and you just never in
rhythm. It’s feels like even if you’re
playing well, it’s just that it just feels like you’re never in
your normal rhythm. It’s really where the Ryder Cup
is won and lost is in those matchups.
Like when you pick your I, I was reading some data on it, like
the trends and I, I mean, if you ever see Luke Donald, ask him
for me that you kind of make your captain’s picks and pick
your team around foursomes because everything else is still
kind of solo still at the same time.
Yeah. I mean, it just seems like
you’re always has these like big pairings and point getters that
you know, you can always count on certain teams like like going
back to Luke, like Sergio and Luke was always a big team.
Stenson and Rose was a was a good team.
And now like Jon ROM and Tyrell Hatton was a good team.
Rory and sorry. Rory played with Fitz I think,
didn’t he? Rory, Rory and.
I’m trying to think now he played no in foursomes.
It was, yeah. Fitz and Rory and Rose and
Fleetwood. Yeah, or or yeah, Fleetwood and
and Rose is is like a really good team.
Or Rory played with Tommy too I think.
He played with Tommy in Rome. I think he he played with Tommy
in the second session. Gotcha.
The four balls. But like what?
What makes a good teammate though is like is it a similar
skill set or is it just like getting along with someone and
not getting mad at them when they hit a shit shot?
I, I really struggle when, when everyone says like, oh, they
just, they just like each other more or they’re playing for, you
know, they get along better. I, I, I really struggle with
that because when you get in in like that team setting, like I
haven’t been on any of the professional teams, but like,
you know, playing on the Walker Cup or playing on the presents
Cup or, or Palmer Cup in college, like you really bond
very quickly over those few days.
And to me, it’s not, it’s never been about like I, you know, if
I’m playing with Max, like I’m not or, or Scottish Scheffler,
like just because I’m not like the best of friend doesn’t mean
like I care deeply of how our team performs.
And sometimes I feel like in foursomes, it’s it’s more about
tearing a good driver of a ball with a really good iron player.
And it’s not always about having same games.
But how do they, you know, kind of work in unison at a specific
golf course? If if the odd guys has all the
important driver holes and the odd and the even guys has some
important like iron shots on Part 3.
So I think it could be different course by course, but also kind
of how their games fit together. Would do you think anyone is
putting that level of sophistication into the Zurich
Classic when picking their partner?
Are they just happy to have a partner and get in the
tournament? Zurich Classic that could
definitely be 1 to where if the Ryder Cup captain maybe went up
to someone and says, hey, like I really would like if you guys
played together, but at the same time it’s so far out like you
don’t even know who might be on the team.
Like this year you had so many new guys, four, I think 4 new
guys. So we’re that that’s that’s that
can be hard. But even like like two or three
weeks prior, trying to get them to at least play together and
get to know each other better. I guess could could be a thing.
Yeah, they tried to do that. Napa I, I, I know that the
Europeans have some like, I think it’s a, I think it’s like
Great Britain versus Ireland or, or Great Britain and Ireland
versus continental that they had.
It happens like once every, I think it’s the off Ryder Cup
year. It happens in the Middle East in
like January, like something like that.
But I, I guess the US has the President’s Cup to play in too.
So it kind of works both ways. I also think like it’s, it’s,
it’s an underrated aspect that the DP World Tour runs the
European side of the Ryder Cup and it’s the PGA of America that
runs the US side. If the, if the US team was run
by the PGA Tour, I, I don’t think you’d see such.
There’d be way more communication between the
players and the, the team aspect of it all.
And I, I don’t think it would be run in a way there were, it just
feels like there’s a, there’s a bunch of bumps on the road to
where, you know, we see the PGA of America people once a once or
twice a year and that’s that. So I, I don’t think that’s a
small aspect when it comes to like trying to fine tune all
these little things to where to all those decisions.
I can tell you what the PGA of America is concerned about.
They were concerned about emailing me because on a YouTube
thumbnail I use their logo promoting their event and they
starting to sue me. That’s what they’re concerned
about. They’re at a golf course.
Yeah, I am very curious of like what they thought about the
Ryder Cup. Was it like just a massive
success because of all the money they raised or they made?
Like I don’t even know if they truly care if the US side wins
because if, because the US has more talent in, in theory, you
know, if, if the US can get all those details figured out, they
would be winning more. But is that in the end, like, is
US losing actually beneficial like in the interest and, and,
and the money aspect of it? Sometimes I, I, I don’t know
what they would be thinking after after last week.
Yeah, it does seem like the Europeans regardless like
wherever they go, wherever the set up to them like their main
goal was winning. What, what what little Ed, like
you’ve mentioned with like Luke Donald thinking about some of
this stuff that whatever edge we can get, we’re going to try to
get. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And you know, like I from I don’t know the exactly what the
process was when picking like AUS Ryder Cup captain, but like
on Europe, like, you know, they have guys like run full on
presentations like over hour of like, you know, how I’m going to
lead. And this these are my ideas,
like like a totally normal job, like head CEO, like candidate
job search would go. But then like, I don’t, I doubt
that’s what happened with Keegan’s because he probably, I
don’t think he even knew that he was getting the job until he got
the call. And so, you know, just just a
little little things like that where those those I feel like
are going to make a difference in the end.
Well, it it’s an infrastructure thing too.
Like, yeah, yeah, it’s helpful that Luke Donald was there the
second time, but Luke Donald wasn’t oblivious to the
captaincy and process before becoming captain, too.
Where it does feel like the US team resets itself every time
there’s a new captain. Like, and having someone like,
we, we can talk about the playing captains all you want,
but it felt like it was tough for Keegan to make brutal
decisions on people because, you know, he’s got to be friends
with a lot of these guys. Where if you had like an older
guy there who’s not on tour anymore, you got to feel like
it’s easier for him to make hard decisions.
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, like, even if it’s an older
guy, like trying to tell Scotty Scheffler or, or or Xander
softly like Patrick Cantley, like, hey, man, like this is how
we’re going to do it. And you’re just going to have to
listen to me. Like that’s, that’s, that’s just
going to be hard no matter who that is.
It is, but it doesn’t seem like that’s a problem.
Maybe that’s the difference that Luke Donald can tell Jon ROM
something. It seems like he listens to him.
Yeah, that’s, that’s definitely, that’s definitely can be a part,
a big part of it. And, you know, it’s just, you
know, part of it. It’s not that like Scotty or, or
any of those guys wouldn’t listen to him.
It’s I just find it hard that a guy would would actually even
have the who’s going to have the ball to tell?
Scotty, what to do? Yeah, yeah.
And like, you know, I don’t know how interested Tiger is.
Like, maybe like Tiger would come up to him, be like, hey,
Scotty. Like, I don’t even know what the
decision would be. And I feel like Scotty would be
100% on board, but just having like an open forum discussion
about those kinds of things would be probably a little
different. No, it’s weird too, because it’s
not like Tiger was the best Ryder Cup player either, which
is shocking. I I did see it’s kind of funny
like stat like the more experienced you are as AUS
player stats wise, the worst performance curve you’re on
because Tiger and Phil just weighs weigh those down so
heavily with the experience and not not doing well in Ryder
Cups. I mean, it is a shame that we
lost like that. We didn’t get Phil to be the
captain in New York. It would have been like the and
it’s good for the Europeans that Luke Donald was able to stick
around. But I was so looking forward to
Phil versus Poulter in New York as the captains.
It would have been awesome. 100% And, you know, I also feel like
going back to like kind of captains and vice captains and,
and kind of having a bit of more of a linear, like a maybe like a
lineage. If you, if you, if you won’t
want to put it that way. To where I felt like the Rome
loss was in such a shocking way that that they kind of went away
from what was I felt like trending from the whistling
straight twin and, and all that to where, you know, with the
task force to where, you know, things were starting to maybe
move along those lines. But the the Rome loss, for
whatever reason, looked so bad, you know, the Netflix special
probably didn’t help and all these things to where they just
went complete curveball it and decide maybe, you know, Keegan,
Keegan was the right guy. Well, you’re in.
I’m airing this the week after the Baker and so hopefully you
won that tournament by now and congratulations on your, you
know, 2,000,000 bucks or whatever it is.
So you got a lot of time to spend over in Asia before you
end up hitting over the Middle East to play in that Abu Dhabi
tournament. Do you like, have you spent a
lot of time vacationing over there since you’ve turned pro?
Or is this a chance for you to like kind of hit it up and be
like, all right now I’m just going to enjoy myself for a
little bit? Yeah, IA lot of people have
asked me like what I’ve bought since I want I don’t I’m not
like too much of A splurge guy, so I don’t I haven’t bought
anything like totally special. But you know, I’m going after
Japan since I’ll be staying in Asia for for the next two weeks
after after that waiting for Abu Dhabi.
So, you know, I’ll be, I’ll, that’s when I’ll be really
vacationing and eating a lot of really good Japanese and and
Korean food probably, which is I can’t, I can’t wait for that, to
be honest. Yeah.
Are you going to hit up a bunch of spots in Japan, go over to
Korea, like kind of do a tour? You’re going to settle up in one
place, do you think? In Korea, I’ll be.
I’ll just be in Seoul mostly and and in Japan so I’ll mostly be
be in Tokyo but I’ll be trying to find all the the best food
spots, best sushi spots, best Korean BBQ spots that I can
find. Well, enjoy it you.
You earned yourself a year man Congratulations.
Appreciate it. Thanks, Pat.
Yeah, no problem. Good luck overseas and we’ll see
you next time.
5 Comments
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👉 Topics include:
* How Michael Kim found his groove in 2025
* Lessons from his French Open win in France
* Ryder Cup takeaways and favorite moments
* Swing Season preview: key PGA Tour courses
* What’s next for Kim heading into 2026
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INDEX
00:00 Intro
00:28 French Open Win
6:28 Ball Speed/Stat Improvement
15:29 Euro Schedule
17:31 PGA Swing Season Courses
29:47 DP World Tour Schedule
41:41 Bermuda/RSM
44:55 Nerves in Contention vs Missing the Cut
48:29 Heart Rate
56:31 Ryder Cup/Talking with Luke Donald
1:12:48 Going on Vacation
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Well done to Michael am very happy
Any Zozo championship video up this week
Awesome show, thanks for joining Michael. Good luck this week in Japan!
Thanks Michael and Pat. Great stuff.
Great episode. Hard not to root for Michael