The Golf Show 2.0 Lanny Wadkins on Ryder Cups Past and Present

Co-hosts Kathy Bissell and Gary Van Sickle talk to Lanny Wadkins about his most memorable Ryder Cup shot, about making teams in the 1970s and 1980s and being a captain in the 1990s. Wadkins also reacts to the recent Ryder Cup at Bethpage Black and, like many people, does not like the way the crowd behaved there. He is a fan of Cameron Young! Wadkins is usually fascinating and outspoken, and this time is no different.

[Applause] Hello, I’m Kathy Bissell. Welcome to the Golf Show 2.0. We are really pleased to have a RDER Cup legend with us this week, Lanny Watkins, who hit, I guess, a glorious shot and he’s described it as the best one of his career in the 1983 Rder Cup. Lanny, do you still remember it is like it was yesterday? Yeah, there not a lot of shots that stand out or that I think back on that were uh probably as pressure packed as that one. It was it was pretty special. I mean, it was only 72 yards. But considering the circumstance, considering who was standing about 10 feet away from me, Jack Nicholas, my entire team except for Dom Watson, who was finishing up the match behind me, it was uh yeah, it was pretty nerve-wracking. But I always thought that one of the things that benefited me in that shot was I played so fast and I always played fast. It wasn’t anything abnormal that it it I almost hit it before I thought about it. So it was almost instinct and reaction more than anything else. And uh a lot of times throughout my career, I looked back and said, “If I could hit that shot at that time, I can handle whatever.” Well, I think you hit a lot of good shots like that. But I remember seeing him all the time. Well, thank you. What was it like on the tea on that hold? You you pro you you knew the situation. Watson was ahead of his match and you guys were kind of the deciding matches at that point. Yeah, there’s no question we were Gary. And uh the interesting thing uh I mean a lot of things happened that match. I felt that was a match I probably in in reality probably should have won about three and two, four and three. Uh I mean the first hole that matched I had a sixfooter for birdie. Kenazarus hold a 50footer for par. We tied the hole. Uh the eight hole very similar thing. I’ve got about 12 feet. He’s got an impossible pit shot. Hits the flag goes in. I missed the 12footer. At 16 I’m one down. I hit two iron 12 feet behind the hole. He’s in the lake to the right. Ball is in the water above water. He gets it on the green 40t. Holds it for par. I miss the 12-footer. I actually ended up making the six-footer to stay alive at 17 or the one at 18 never would have happened. So, a lot of things happened, but yeah, on the 18, I mean, I knew I had to win the hole. Uh, everybody was standing there. I hit a really good T- shot. Actually hit it past Canazarus off the tea. I was thinking he would lay up around the lake. He hit it over the lake and uh it kind of forced my hand. I went ahead and hit 3-wood. I remember I hit my three-wood, hit it really solid and Curtis Strange started yelling at him, “Get up. Get up.” I said, “Don’t worry, it’s solid.” I was pass, he hit his third shot first. Kind of hit a little heavy, left it on the front edge of the green. Uh, and I hit 72 yards. Hit it, you know, a foot from the hole. Nicholas goes over and kisses a divot. Uh, I walk up on the green. Tom Kite smacked me on the back, said something. I went to talk and nothing came out. Probably the first time in my life I’ve ever been speechless. Kenazars pretty much had the round of his life, didn’t he? Had an interesting round. I don’t know that he he played particularly well, but he sure got in the hole. And I was playing very well that week. I I had a pretty good RDER Cup. Uh played a lot of good golf. Hit some good shots. Uh Gil Morgan and I won a match that week. I want to say it was uh uh seven and five over Torrance to somebody else. Stler and I won a match. Uh so I I’d played pretty well the entire week and was playing good going in there. I’d had you know a good year in 83. I’d won three times in 82, two more times in 83. So I was having a nice nice stretch. It’s funny looking at the lineup in 83 for singles. I guess frontloading hadn’t been invented yet. No, it or it wasn’t thought of as a strategy because you and Watson are bringing up the bringing up the tail end. Well, and Raymond was the group between us or right in front of Watson and Nicholas felt that it was close and if it was down to something at the end, he wanted uh his guys that he could count on at the end. uh he had said that and it was not it actually was um I don’t think it became a front loading became an issue until 99 when I think that’s the first time. Yeah. Yeah. But we u uh there were a number of times that it went the other way and and we got to knowing where the Europeans were going to have someone like uh I mean Raymond was the first to really pick up on everything where they put people. Uh Watson went off that and I did too. I remember at uh in the 89 matches Kavi and Ken Green came to Raymond said, “We want the Spanish Armada. We’re going to take them down.” And Raymond said, “Okay, boys. I know right where they’ll be.” And he put them and they got them. And the Spanish Armada walked them in about six and five. I don’t think they want any more of them. So, uh, but we we got to understanding that when it came to singles, they always played one of their bigger names off first. Uh, and then they had usually had somebody in in reserve, but they were always going to put one of their very biggest names off first, uh, hoping to get a win and maybe get that person out on the course rooting them on. Uh, for example, when I was captain, Sevy was first off. Uh, 91 at Kio, Faldo was first off. Okay. So, I remember some of those. So, that was u uh that that was what they were doing. And Raymond had really really paid attention. He had worked everything really really well. He let he had a nice blueprint for us to go by at that point in time for for you know uh Stockton in 91, Watson 93, and me in 95. Well, I always said that Raymond would kill people for a point and I he was a tough competitor. Raymond’s always been a tough competitor. I mean, he and I played uh partners as far back as 85. We played two matches together. Uh the first two day at the belfry we won both matches. Um I don’t know we played together after we might have played together another time after that. Maybe we played in 89. I don’t remember but I know we played then for sure. Um I play I was kind of lucky. I was I kind of had a game that went with anybody. So I I played with everybody. Played with Corey Paven several times. Obviously Larry Nelson and I had a lot of success together. Raymond uh Hail Irwin and I were never beaten. I always I I I really could not understand why captains didn’t put Hail and I together more because our games are kind of mirror games. We both hit it about the same distance. We both hit it straight. Both good iron players. Always felt Hail was a better putter, but we made a really good team together. Nobody even came close to touching us when we played. No, the metrics the metrics probably didn’t indicate it, Lanny. You know, I don’t think we were aware of metrics back then here. I don’t think so either. I still don’t that crap. I I couldn’t tell you what a stroke, gain, anything is. So, I mean, I, you know, I know how many putts I have, how many greens I hit, and that’s all that matters. That’s what matters, how close you were to the hole. I played with Payne Stewart several times, played with Pin, played with Stadler, played with Larry M once. I mean, I I played with a whole, you know, different bunch of guys. So for me it was always, you know, really exciting. It always kind started tickling me here recently having guys saying they want to play with their buddies or whatever. All I cared about was playing. I I as a captain said, “Am I playing?” Yeah. I said, “Who with and which position?” You know, it was always am I playing first, not who am I playing with? Well, be before we get to what happened at Beth Page Park, let’s talk a little bit about how we got there because you were right there in 79. the Europeans were added to the RDER Cup which basically was to get Sevy in and you were right on the edge of the end of American dominance and Europe got good in a hurry and started winning in the 80s and then uh again kind of split in the 90s and then in the 21st century, you know, it’s been lights out Europe. You were there at the start. Did you did you see it happening the way it’s happened? Not as quickly as it probably did. Uh, two things happened. Uh, when they first played in 79, I played in 77 also, which was, uh, by winning the PGA, Pebble got me on the team. Uh, so that was the last time we, it was Great Britain and Ireland. Then the first time was 79 at Greenbryer. And, you know, they’re making a big deal out of Sevy playing and blah blah blah. And all I remember is Larry Nelson and I beat Sebie three straight matches and then Larry beat him in singles. So I know Sebie lost four matches his first Rder Cup. Then in the second one in 81, Sevy wanted to be paid to play and they wouldn’t pay him. So he didn’t play in 81. That’s something that you know when people are crediting crediting Sebie with saving the Rder Cup for Europe. They failed to mention that he wanted to be paid. First guy wanted to be paid and didn’t play in 81 because of it. I think he then found out he wasn’t bigger than the game or the RDER Cup and came back and played in 83. Uh 83 was the first time it got really close. I missed the 81 team. It was the only time I missed one of about 20 years. I had an injury to my left thumb and I really had it down here in in 80 and 81. But start I made a correction and it worked and I think I was actually the leading point getter for Nicholas’s team in 83. Yeah. You were uh you were on eight teams, right? Or eight teams. Yes. And what was Phil? I think Phil’s the only guy who’s played more for the US, right? Yeah. Well, had it been today’s rules, I’d have made at least one more, maybe two. Uh I would have made the 73 team. Yeah. I mean, guys get on now as rookies back in the day. Nicholas Irwin, you know, all of us. Raymond, we had to be class A members of the PGA, right? Be on the team. So, you had to be on tour five years before you were eligible for the team. I definitely would have made at least a 73 team because I was 10th on the money list in 72 and uh fifth in 73 during that space. I had uh something like uh I know I had three wins about six seconds and another probably dozen, you know, top 10. So, would easily have made the 73 team. No, incredibly Jack wasn’t on the team and till 1969. And even more incredibly, okay, he’s a big world class winner by then, but as a Ryder Cup rookie in his first Rder Cup, he conceds the pot to Jaclyn, which uh you know, for a first time Ryder Cup, it was pretty pretty strong. But it’s amazing it took him that long to get eligible for the Ryder Cup back then. He had to take that class on how to how to fold sweaters. Yeah, I think I think Jack saw the bigger picture better than most people. Yeah. You know, there’s no question. And he’d been exposed to Walker Cup, which I think happened to a lot of us. I played two Walker Cup teams, a world amateur team, so I was familiar with those things. And I think it it it also helped. I think we and plus my age group, Jack’s age group, we grew up playing match play almost everything we played in. Now the kids play as metal play. So I don’t Okay. have been exposed to match play as much. Got it. Well, there was also a rule that you had to be a member of the PGA of America and not all the PJ tour players were. I mean, I remember Paul Azinger missed his first year of that he could have played because he wasn’t a member of the PGA. Well, he would have been had he gone and taken the test, but sometimes Paul crazy. uh you have to be out there five years and go through different parts of it to be class A. It’s not that you have to be a member of the PGA, you have to be class A to play in the RDER Cup. I know that well because I went through that as did Nicholas and quite a few others. So, uh that’s that it wasn’t just a member of the PGA. It was, you know, had to be a member in good standing in class A professional. Well, what was your takeaway from the Beth Paige? Uh, it was all up for two days and Americans were pretty close to having to go down to the last match uh at the end with a furious rally. What What did you take away from the week? Yeah, it was good to see him rally. My first takeaway is the embarrassment of of watching the galleries in New York just make complete asses of themselves. Yeah, I think embarrass. Uh I I couldn’t have been more disappointed uh that those are fellow citizens acting like, you know, complete idiots. Um and I think a lot of my captains have, you know, voiced that opinion as well. Uh I told I was talking to someone today, uh and I said if I was PJ of America, I wouldn’t take another event to New York. Not not a PJ championship, not a RED Cup, not anything. Uh that was embarrassing. They needed to they needed to throw some spectators out right away. And maybe that would have, you know, put the fear of God into these other fans who’ve paid 750 bucks for a ticket. They might think twice about if they’re going to get kicked out for making these uh, you know, in sense that it doesn’t begin to describe the personal vitriol they they sent to players. It wasn’t just booing the Yankees. It was it was personal and it was completely uncalled for. Yeah, it was completely uncalled for. Don’t forget a couple of wives that got attacked. I mean, Luke Donald’s wife’s an American, as is Roy Moroyy’s. I mean, for them to act like that, you know, that’s no no excuse in that. Yes, there’s no excuse for it whatsoever. Not not in golf. Maybe you could do that in some other sport. I mean, I don’t think there’s any excuse for it ever, period. But, no, it’s it’s very borish behavior. Did Did you think the Americans stacked up well going into the event or I did. I Yes, Gary. I did. I I actually liked our chances a lot going in. Uh I felt like our team was playing well. Um the the first thing that struck me watching it the first day was the core setup. I I went, “What the hell are they thinking?” Every time we have a major championship, US Open PGA, when it’s set up like a US Open, the American players are almost always dominating the top of the leaderboards. We had a course set up with no rough. The greens never looked like they were lightning fast. We had a chance to set it up as captain. You’re in charge of that. So, uh I I think that was uh the first biggest mistake that was made. Uh the second thing that struck me first day on was uh I want to win the first match. I want to put somebody out there. I think there’s no way they’re going to get beat even though it happened to me. Mine lost. I would have, you know, I mean, I didn’t think Dshambo and Justin Thomas was our strongest alternate shot team. Maybe best ball team, but not alternate shot team. I agree with you. You know, that’s I I don’t know that I would have played D Shambo an alternate shot. Who can play where he hits it other than him? So, I think he would have been a spectacular uh teammate in baseball and singles and and he’s a fighter, but uh he he’s playing from such different spots with someone else. If he was playing with anyone else in order to shot, it maybe should have been someone like Cam Young who was semi semi close to him distance-wise off the tea. But, uh that would have been a tough tough match. I remember I I I bet uh part of the factor was let’s have Dshambo hit the first shot, drive the first green, and have everybody go crazy and that’s kind of a short-sighted plan, but I I I had I think that was involved in it. I remember that’s one shot. I don’t see one shot off the first team. Yeah, couples in Davis Love used to like playing together and they didn’t mind even playing alternate shot because was it Davis would say I hit it in awful places and so does Fred and we’re used to hitting out of that for our next shot. So it wasn’t a surprise to them if somebody hit a T-OT that was off the planet because they had both done it so often. Yeah. And that’s a good point. I mean they play very similar games. It’s like, yeah, you know, Hail and I playing together, you know, we, you know, I mean, actually, we went on the first te two different times and right before they announced this, Hail said, uh, you got to hit here. I don’t like the way the wind’s blowing. So, literally, we changed and and changed our our feeling and of how we’re going to play on the first hole. I mean, we did it on the first hole at Kiwa and still shot five under the front. We’re five up on Montgomery and Guilford. So, uh, you know, it was just a matter of who felt better doing what. Uh, and anything that in my mind when we played together, for example, anything that put Hail Putty more was a good thing. I played very very well in Alton shot and and best baseball. And I don’t remember who hit why or where. I I think our games were very similar, you know, back in 79. Hit it about the same. Uh, put about the same. So, uh, but we were we were both playing really really well at that point in time. Yeah. On the back end of your course setup comments, it kind of turned you the REDR Cup to me is always kind of primarily a putting contest. The team with the best putters usually wins, but the course setup really put the emphasis on making it a putting contest. And if you put the Americans up against the European team this year, I think clearly the Europeans had an edge in putting. And that that was another mistake. Yeah, they did. And it seem seemed like I haven’t looked at any stats, but uh according to the ball striking metrics of it, you know, we hit the ball every bit as good or better than the Europeans, which, you know, goes to your point. you know, had the rough been taller and where they couldn’t get on the green from some of the places driving it, you know, might have might have made quite a difference. And, you know, I kept hearing all I’ve ever heard is, you know, how hard and tough Beth Paige is. It didn’t look very hard or tough when guys were shooting as many under as they were. Now, from the rain on Thursday, that’s a contributing factor. But, yeah, you know, had the rough been six, eight inches long, that would have just made the rough tougher. Well, they were doing lift clean and place, too. And uh yeah, that made it easier. And um yeah, I you just didn’t you just don’t expect you know the the gross scores would have been interesting if I don’t have those in front of me. But it was like watching somebody shoot 25 under at a at a tour event. And think about this, even with lift in place at the rough and more penal guys in the rough couldn’t get it to the green. So yeah, you drive it in the fairway, you even got more of an advantage. Yeah. I mean, many times guys are driving the rough and it’s sitting up like an an Easter egg and they just, you know, hammering on the green, no problem. And these guys are so long, they’re still hitting nine irons in all day long on every hole it seemed like. Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, I I thought it was a longer course than that. It looked long in places, but I I did hear that they moved some TE’s up because of grandstands, things like that. If if that’s the case, that’s too bad. I would have, you know, liked to have seen Beth Paige play like all the stories I’ve heard. I’ve never played there, so I would like to have seen it play like the stories that I’ve heard. Uh would have been nice. It’d be interesting to ask Cam Young at some point in time, you know, what was the difference in in RDER Cup Beth Paige than in what you’ve seen in the past. Did you think the Greens looked slow? I thought they looked glacial. I thought they looked over just kind of medium speed for tour players. I didn’t think anything over the top. They looked like they were 12 or 13. I was expecting I think 13 14. Uh they’ve they were slloy. They they didn’t have a lot of mean slopes in them. There were some constant slopes. Yeah. Uh so I I think that was part of it. They looked they were fast, but they weren’t un unduly fast for what we see on a daily basis on tour these days. Yeah, that they they compared to the what you usually see in a tournament, they look just looked really slow to me. They looked like 10 years ago slow. Yeah, they probably should have brought Tom Meeks back. He set up the uh the first unit open there in 2002 and besides the never mind the pin positions on number 10 it was like a 200 I want to say was a 250 260 yard carry to reach the fairway which as well Montgomery didn’t do at least once. So uh yeah maybe Tom Meeks was the way to go. Well, but and and then I I the other thing I noticed was when they’re playing the second nine in the matches, uh I want to say it was Saturday, the uh the two par threes, they hit pitching waves to one and nine iron to the other. Yeah. I mean, really, come on. Well, that means it’s not on soft greens with nine irons and pitching pitching wedges. You can’t hide the flags from them. Yeah. Just saying. Well, by the time Saturday’s done, uh, it’s a it’s a blowout. Uh, it seemed like an impossible task. What were your thoughts then? And what did you think going into when Sunday Yeah. launched? I thought it was embarrassing, you know, the way it transpired. I mean, we’ve lost Rder Cups before, but we’ve always seemed to at least been competitive. But it just even I mean, some of the the losses, it wasn’t even a lot of one down losses. they were, you know, five and four and threes, three and twos, stuff where it was already out of hand early. But, uh, I I must say that it was impressive the way they came back and played on, uh, on Sunday. You know, Cameron Young and Justin Thomas making those putts at 18. That that was big time. Uh, showed me a lot right there. I’m selfishly, I’m a big Cameron Young fan. He was on my scholarship at Wake Forest, so Oh, okay. I’m always pulling for Cam. So, he he’s a great kid. great young man. Well, he seemed to handle that course really well. Well, he’s been playing there a long time and probably knows it better than most. So, it was great to see him play well. Um, I hope he’s a fixture on Ryder Cup teams going forward. I like his attitude. He’s I don’t think he’s afraid of anything. That’s what I look like to me. Yeah, Dashambo came through also getting his match back to even uh and that kind of you know I mean it was silly. They could only they couldn’t afford more than one loss on the last day and then they had to win you know uh nine more nine of nine of the last 11 or nine 10 of the last 11. It just didn’t seem doable. Dambo wins and then it’s like well they prolonged the inevitable but uh and then and then guys started winning matches. It was impressive. It was very impressive and they got a lot of halves and uh you know I mean really the Europeans only had one win like out of so that that in itself was pretty amazing. It’s a shame we couldn’t had but two more wins and maybe gotten rid of two halves with the end coming down there would have been fun to watch. Well, if if Henley could have made that birdie putt uh after, you know, Lowry just came through in the you know, that was a Lanny shot just about there and 18 by him with the RDER Cup on the line. If Henley makes that putt, then that’s another another one match. And now you’re going to the last three and the US was up in one. I think the other two were tied. So those guys would have really been in the grinder. Yeah, it would have been. And yeah, had Henley made his butt. I mean that’s I wouldn’t go back and put anything on one person at this point. Oh no. It was a combined team loss. So you know nobody was you know was you know missing a you know didn’t have a loss. So uh I I I got to say he was you know really working it hard and he played great. He had I mean think of the shot he only hit it 18. That was that was impressive to begin with. Yeah. Oh, he had Lowry on the ropes and Lowry won that hole to get a half, but he was the last line of defense. But just think if if he wins the other three guys, it’s not just the scoreboard now. The the European guys are like thinking about are we really going to blow a sevenpoint lead? I mean, you you’ve been in these situations where that the scoreboard weighs on those last guys. Yeah. And that had to be going through their mind, which puts more pressure on them playing. So, I’m sure that, you know, when it gets to a RDER Cup, everybody’s got to look at the scoreboard. Yeah. I mean, these guys have said they play and don’t look at scoreboards. I don’t know what they’re afraid of. They’re afraid of seeing their name at the top of the leaderboard. I don’t know. Never understood that. But Ryder Cup, I don’t think there’s any way you can play uh and not pay attention to what your teammates are doing. I agree. You have to. Yeah. And I’m sure that I’m sure that was a factor when the US came back in 99. The Europeans are like, “Oh no.” And this in 2012 when Madina when it was she was on the other foot, Europe came back and the Americans were dropping these matches at the end uh because they knew, you know, it’s like it kind of snowballs. It’s it’s like you’re leading the tournament by seven and you keep losing your lead on Sunday and it just it it’s it’s hard to explain, but it it just it’s hard on your confidence. It is. And it’s hard being a part of it. I know when I was captain at 95, I had a three-point lead with eight matches to go. I mean, excuse me, with 11 matches to go and we ended up losing. And, you know, I’m sitting there watch I can I can see it unfolding, seeing it happening, see seeing it happen and just, you know, I can’t do a damn thing about it. You know, it’s already and I just need guys to step up and play and unfortunately some didn’t. So, that’s you that’s what happens. That was Philip Walton, wasn’t it? Philip Walton beat Jay Hos. Uh Fellow beat Curtis Strange. There were a number of players. Yeah. Howard Clark beat Peter Jacobson. There were some guys that lost uh in situations I wouldn’t have thought they would lost, but you know, it’s golf. It happens. That’s right. It does. And they’re all all the guys there are professionals and playing for a living. So, uh, you know, you it’s hard to ever say someone’s a, you know, a weak link in a in a chain with that kind. No, if you played well enough to be on a Ryder Cup team, you’re not that weak, right? Do you think they should do anything different going forward in terms of how they pick players, in terms of how the team’s organized? I mean, when in the 70s and early 80s, they didn’t have like 85 assistant captains out there, right? Uh we didn’t have a I I I was one of the first ones that had one. I had uh my brother came along and helped me. I think I probably trip. Um Stockton had his boys Yeah. help him with something in 91. Uh Watson had Stan Thurk along, but none of us really had assistant captains per se. Uh till I guess my brother may have been the first was known as an assistant captain. He never got any of the perks that all the guys got and get today. But uh the one thing I don’t like I don’t I don’t know that I like um I think I would like to see back go back to at least just four captains picks. I I think if a guy has played good enough to be in the top eight, he deserves to be on the team. uh you know now if they want to uh change the situation of points where and they’ve done this before where the points are double the you know the calendar year that they’re playing the matches in make those heavier weight you know uh we’ve had guys make the team in the past winning three four five times uh in the off year and then when it got to the year of the RDER cup matches they were already on the team and they hadn’t played well right there again I think maybe uh eight guys, four picks might be a more realistic thing. Uh, you know, we didn’t have picks over here and until ‘ 89. Actually, the first two captains picks ever were me and Tom Watson by Raymond Floyd uh in ‘ 89 and uh you know, I had two picks uh I think everybody only had two picks, right, I don’t I don’t know when it changed after that, but through 95 it was just two picks. Any thoughts? Uh Keegan brought up the envelope. He thinks it needs to be changed. There’s nearly no good way to resolve the a player getting hurt because it doesn’t seem fair that a team should lose a whole point. But it I don’t know. I don’t know the answer, but Keegan thinks it needs to be changed. Changed to what? I don’t know. Yeah. And and why why him all of a sudden should it be changed? It’s been around since 79. It’s not like this is a brand new thing. Uh this was instituted when they went to 12 players in singles uh not 10. When you’re looking at 12 players and singles, the chance of someone being hurt sick, you know, it’s increased because they’re just more people. Gil Morgan slipped walking to the golf course on a on a slippery hillside in 79 and hurt his shoulder. Couldn’t play. I mean, Steve Pates, we’re in an accident in 91 at Kiwa that, you know, three three limos went boom boom boom and Steve went flying into the TV that sits up there, you know, messed his ribs up. He couldn’t play. Uh we’ve a couple Europeans that could I know that uh we had heard in 93 that uh there may be an issue with one of the Europeans and I went to Watson, I was the captain’s pick, said, you know, because we didn’t have anybody that wasn’t playing well. Uh, and I said, “Put me in the envelope.” I said, “Then I can help you on the course if need be tomorrow.” And uh, he didn’t want to do it. And quite honestly, had I known I was going to draw Sevy about an hour later, I wouldn’t have offered, but uh, you know, which I did. And I got moved to uh, Sam Torrance, who had a septic toe. I have yet to understand what a septic toe is, but Sam had one, didn’t play. Uh Jim Gallagher ended up beating Sevy and and I you know I got the draw with Sam Torrance. So that’s um I I think there was another European that got had issues as well at some point along the line but I don’t remember you know who it was or which one. Well there was one version of Sam Torrance was he may have had a few beverages too many and he kicked something or hurt his hurt his foot walking around. But, you know, he could have just been an infected toenail. Those are painful. But I don’t know what really happened. Yeah, I don’t know either. But, you know, he’s he he hung around a lot with Farity. They were close buddies. Could have been anything. Yeah, that’s true. Well, you know, you look, you could you could add another day to the to the RDER Cup, like the President’s Cup, have five matches, the first couple rounds, and then you could eliminate two singles matches back to 10, and maybe that would eliminate the u that would eliminate the odds of, you know, you’re not going to have three guys get hurt. But yeah, there’s there’s always a should, would a, could have, isn’t it? So, I I like the format of the RDER Cup with the three days. it I think it’s more in more intense. Uh it keeps everything going. Um the thing that always get is seeing guys say they’re tired. You know, uh you know, I don’t remember ever being tired my 20s. You know, maybe a little bit towards 35 to 40, but my 20s, I don’t I’m not sure I was ever tired. You know, I could have gone all night, stayed up all night, and played 36 in a heartbeat. So, uh, that’s that’s a poor excuse sometimes as well. Well, then you’re running on a lot of adrenaline, too during that time, I would say. Adrenaline and and you know, going in as a player, I mean, my situ I was hoping to play five matches. I didn’t want days off. I wanted to play every match and you the mo majority of the Rder Cups, uh, I played five. I think in 77 we only played three matches. Uh we played like altering shot first day, best baseball the second and then singles. And uh I mean I played I played seven RED Cup matches before I ever lost a point. So you know uh that’s one reason I always think worrying about rookies is is worry you don’t need to have. I mean look at Cam Young this year. Yeah, you got you got form not on reputation. And I wonder there might be one or two American guy picks. I I would say I wouldn’t have picked him, but then you look at who else was available, it’s like it wasn’t like anybody else had a a stronger case either. No, I I thought I thought Keegan’s picks were solid. I thought they were right on track and I didn’t have an issue with any one of them. I thought if he had six picks, he went the right way. He had guys that could play both formats. uh he had some really good putters in that group. Yeah. And so I you know I I I thought that there was not any real issue with with the picks at all that I could see. I mean sometimes you just got to go play better. I the only other thing that I thought about uh going I think the Europeans gave themsel a great edge by by going to Beth Paige and playing the week before. May have been one of the reasons they puted better. They spent some on the greens. You know, I I applaud our guys all getting together and playing in Napa, but playing in Napa is not playing Beth Paige. No, we may have been better served having gone there for two days ourselves doing that. I mean, that’s hindsight. Hindsight’s 2020, but it sure I thought they all looked ready to play. I mean, we had a lot of guys finished top 10 in Napa and, you know, as well as Scotty winning. So they were ready. The only thing that would have been different may have been learning the greens a little bit better at Beth Paige. I don’t think a lot of our guys have been exposed to Beth Paige before and I think that that you know by the European team going in there and playing for two days that could have uh given them a little bit of an edge there. Seemed like they usually putt better than us the first two days at every RDER Cup. and uh John Wood who was involved with the team. He’s a longtime caddy at the NBC pre-turn pre-writer cup uh media conference. I don’t know if it was two years ago or four years ago. He said Tiger Woods explained that as the Europeans spend way more time on the greens practicing than we do. He and Tiger said, “I know that because we wind up behind them in practice rounds and we’re always having to wait on them because they’re on the greens forever.” And like if it’s that simple. I mean, it’s not just We’ve all watched these Ryder Cups. Monty and Sergio, all these guys become great putters. There has to be something more to it than just playing under pressure or match play. I wonder if Tiger and if if Tiger thinks they work harder on the greens than the Americans do, maybe we should do something about that. Yeah, but in my mind, you go out there and work at other times. Uh you don’t have to do it right in the practice round that’s taking place. Um I prefer and back when I played, Raymond and myself and you know, Watson, we we played money games. We felt like we got sharper making the putts count in practice. something instead of just casually hitting them with no pressure whatsoever. So, if we’re trying to really make putts in practice for our own dollars, then then we usually put pretty well. I know that uh you know, when Weissgolf won in 73 at Trune, you know, we played three straight days of pretty intense serious money games. You know, Bird Yansy, Tom Weissoff, and Tony Jaclyn and myself. And I think three of us were in the top six that that week, you know, in the tournament. Then a lot of us from, you know, getting prepped and ready to play uh and and you know, going ahead and you know, treating the course like you’re going to treat it during the tournament. You know, if you go out there and practice with, you know, no meaning right then and there, no pressure on what you’re doing, you may learn some of the breaks, but doesn’t mean you’re going to hit them there later, right? Well, maybe it has something to do with the Europeans get off to great start making putts and for whatever reason the Americans don’t and on Sunday when Yeah. Well, now we’re out of it or I don’t know, it doesn’t get their attention. I mean, Americans typically putt great and play better on Sundays than they did the first two days. That’s that’s been the trend in the 21st century. Yeah. And I don’t know there’s a reason for it other than maybe they caught up maybe the two days they missed in practice you know and it they you know attuned for it by the two days in in matches and then greens better. So I mean there’s a good point the Europeans came in and spent two days there. Uh you can be as intense in those two days as you want to trying to learn the greens. So maybe maybe that was something that that could be their secret. It’s not dissimilar to what Jack Nicholas did at the majors. No, he go the week before and really he just got and but he would play a ball and shoot a score. He wanted to get used to shooting a score on those courses. Baltas or wherever knowing he could do it and uh as much as learning the course, you know how many guys go in early now to majors and play more than 18 holes? Guys fly in and fly out. Jack was there two, three, four days and did it. I don’t know why more players who want to win majors don’t don’t do the Nicholas method. But well, that’s a good point. And Jack did go learn the course and and pick up on things and then he would have time to think about and think about the course and even plan his preparation when he’s practicing. I do know Jack liked to play money games because I played a lot with him in major championships. uh when he wanted OILL I think either US Open or PGA they won like 82 or so there you know we were playing money games all week there fact he made a home and one on 15 one of our money games so I remember that so sounds like you didn’t win any money Lanny I had a good partner okay it was usually Raymond and I playing Jacko and Raymond and I tended to get the best of them that’s what I said America for a point. Go ahead. I said Raymond would kill you for a point. That’s all you wanted for a partner. I’m sure the PGA of America is going to be on the phone with you to ask who they should pick as captain for 27. Uh I’m facicious of course, but do you have any ideas? No. Who would you We don’t know who they’re going to Who would you pick? Yeah. They didn’t talk to us about the last one. Yeah. Um so I I don’t know. I was I was ready for someone other than the group that had been captain. Being captain, I I you know, uh I I I thought Keegan was the right person. Maybe he was a a bit young, but his attitude, his patriotism, uh his energy, that was good. I I thought that was very good. Um, you know, there’s some other things that are there to consider, but um, you know, in my mind, quite honestly, I I think Tiger deserves to be captain. Uh, I think if he wants to be captain the next two or three times, he’s got it. You know, I think he deserves that. Um, you know, it would be interesting to see how he planned to get people ready to play. You know, would would that make a big difference? uh pretty good intimidation factor having him on your side. It was kind of like, you know, us having Nicholas and uh even though Nicholas only, you know, won one and lost one and they were both really really close. Uh it was interesting to spend those weeks with Jack uh with him, you know, running the show. It was uh I think that one of the coolest things I did was get Yeah, I got to play with Jack twice and that that was pretty outstanding stuff. I I thought Keegan did nail it when uh talking about being left off the team two years ago. He said it’s become a boys club and I’m kind of an outsider on tour. And I I think you know and you look at some of the players who were picked on reputation in 23 instead of form. I think he was right. uh you know the only things I would quibble about him was uh you know the course setup as you said and then he gave him the bulletin board quote you know we’re going to go to Beth Page and we’re going to kick their asses and if you saw any of the photos from the European team locker room the wall there was a big red letters that quote we’re gonna you know was on the wall and that doesn’t determine the writer cup winner but that’s you know that was just one more log in fire lot. Not that the Europeans need one, but uh I I think that’s a good point. I I I I was ready for a change in in the attitude of the captains. Um you know, 10 of us former captains went to Rome and we weren’t treated very well by Johnson or that team. We weren’t allowed in the locker room. We weren’t allowed in the team room at the hotel. We sat 10 12 feet from where they walked past the door to go play every day. Not one person on that team came in and said hello to any of us. Uh we’re talking Lee Tino, Raymond Floyd, uh wow Tom Kite, me, Krenshaw, uh you know, Layman, Azinger, right on down the line, Cory Paven, Dave Stockton, not one person came in and said anything to us all week, which utterly amazing. And I was sitting there thinking if I’d been a player and this had been people like Nicholas and Arnold and Jackie Burke, I’d have been spending all my time in there with them, you know, is what I would have been doing because uh I I I always felt they had something to say that I could learn from. Yeah. And Right. for us to be treated like that. That was one of the reasons I didn’t even go this year. I just I I was kind of turned off by the experience in Rome, unfortunately. Yeah. Why are they inviting you there? You’re not going to be involved at all. were like I’m on a text chain right now with uh Kite and Curtis and and Krenshaw. You’d love to get a hold of that. But uh uh let me let me I think the only one that went was Krenshaw. Trevino told me he and Ben were doing a lot of corporate stuff up there. I know Curtis didn’t go. I don’t think Kite went. So, uh kind of the same same thing, but you know, and and for the same reasons. That’s a shame. I I still I wouldn’t rule up I mean I I personally the guy who created the pod system that worked brilliantly and we’ve never gone back to it was Azinger. I I don’t know why we just heard that. We all had a pod system. We just didn’t name it and and yes like Paul did. We all did the same thing. We’ve done it’s done it from back in 1977 my first Rder Cup. You know that’s nothing new. Paul just decided he’d name it because somebody had, you know, Paul’s a great guy and a great friend, but he’s not the smartest guy in the room. Okay? I mean, let’s just get that. Let’s get that straight. Uh, we all did that every RDER Cup I ever played in. We played with the guys we’re gonna play with in matches. That’s that’s, you know, it’s not Well, he he matched he got the psychologist in to match them up by personality rather than golf game. So, I don’t know if that’s much different. Well, I don’t know. I don’t believe in sports psychologists. It’s like everybody’s got a team and I I mean I said yeah I had a sports psychologist. He was a different guy every week. He was called a bartender and Okay. I cut Gary off. No, you and I are from different eras. I mean than they are now. I agree. What do you need a sports psychologist for? Just go out and play. That that you I don’t I don’t get it. You go out and play and beat people, don’t you? Yeah. supposed to do. That’s it. And I mean, if you, you know, if you’ve gotten this far to get on tour and you can’t figure it out, then, you know, go get a job. Uh, it’s Y, it’s pretty damn simple. So, you know, if you’ve grown up your whole life playing golf, beating people at every level, then you get on tour, you just continue. That’s that was my So, well, we got Lanny Watkins, Hall of Fame player, Hall of Fame broadcaster, Hall of Fame. They grouped it right here. Thanks so much. You’re awesome. You’re great. You’re great as usual. [Applause]