Johnny Herbert: The TRUTH About Michael Schumacher at Benetton!

Michael Schumacher got ALL the attention at Benetton… Johnny Herbert reveals what it was really like being his teammate in the mid-90s! 🚨 From surviving a terrifying crash that almost ended his F1 career, to winning Le Mans and being axed from Sky F1 in 2023, Johnny doesn’t hold back

During my racing days, this was something I always wanted to do, but I never really used it as a relaxation. Golf. It was a bit It was frustrating, was it? Well, it was frustrating. Yeah, but I mean, just to get out and do something completely different away from the paddock and everything else, I never really did it where now Yeah. they seem to be a lot more chewing it. On the other hand, don’t Yeah. The He’s quite an exception. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I actually want to take you back to 1994, 1995. Yeah. when you were teammates with Michael Schumacker. How was your relationship with him kind of during those two seasons, season and a half? Pretty okay. Not a problem at all. I knew before I’d gone into probably 95 more. So I did the two races at the end of 94. I expected everything within the team to be about Michael. Um, I probably didn’t expect Flavio, my best friend Flavio, to be so supportive of Michael and literally not allow me to do certain things during a test, for example, where I was meant to do a 4-day test. It was meant to be two and two and I ended up doing half a day and all that added to the difficulties of that year. But Michael himself, great great sense of humor, a little bit of a British Britishness in there as well with that humor. very focused of course when he was you know in the engineer’s office or in the car of course but outside that good fun and that was what was was nice to be you know see that side of him obviously that team was kind of built around Michael you know can you give me kind of an example of the situations that the team or Flavio would do that would kind of favor him well I think I always remember was Ross Brawn and Ross was good to me because Ross tried to help out and some difficult times that I had there. But Ross, I remember him saying or hearing him say that he said he has never worked with anybody as special as Michael and as quick as Michael and because of that they would do anything for him. So the focus was on Michael and that’s why Michael was very good at getting Ross uh Rory the designer Flavio and he got all the people around him because they believed and they trusted what he was going to do when he got in the cockpit and I think that’s always the uniqueness of the the very very exceptional drivers a bit like Max bit like Sajjaki you can trust them you know every single weekend they’re going to be able to do the job and that’s what Bennett had with Michael uh at that time and he took all that energy from them but they took the energy from from him as well and that would just kept moving them forward and kept their minds trying to work out what’s the next thing that we can improve upon. It wasn’t just oh we do the car we make it better this is good as it is and we move on. Now, it was just a continual unbelievable development program throughout the the the the year I was there with him in 95. Shot. That do beauty. Yeah, I think it’s great. We just left rough. Yeah, great shot. Really good. Thank you. Yeah, wind’s bringing it back. You had a huge crash in 1988 at Brans Hatch in Former 3000. Yep. Did that crash change your perspective on life at all knowing how quickly it could be taken away from you with kind of one small mistake? No, weirdly not. No, it was before I had the accident. I always thought it’d never happen to me. Unfortunately, it happened to me on that that day in August at Brans Hatch and then afterwards, well, I don’t think it will happen to me again, but there was always that chance. But I never believed it was something that I would have gone through initially, but then I wouldn’t I didn’t feel I was going to go through it again. So, did it change my mindset in any way? No. Because racing for me was was something I’ I’ve done since I was, you know, 8 years old, 7, 8 years old. Racing when I was about 10. And when I had that accident, I was that close to being a Formula 1 driver, but I wasn’t a Formula 1 driver. And when the option got taken up from Beniton uh in 1988 in so my my crash was in August and I think it was October that I got the the option was taken up. So that gave me the drive to go I can be on the grid at the end of February I think it was for the first Grand Prix in Rio. Do you feel the leg injuries you sustained from that crash kind of limited kind of what you could achieve in Formula 1? Personally yes at the time of racing no. It was almost that the difficulties I had I put in a little box in the back of my mind all locked up and I threw away the key and I tried to just carry on doing it in the manner that I was doing it at that time. When I look back, I’m sort of in some ways I’m I’m quite shocked what I was able to achieve because my my ankles are, you know, that’s as much as that one bends that way. It doesn’t it only does that doesn’t go sideways. That one just moves a little bit less. I mean, that must have affected your throttle and brake heel and toe. Well, I can’t. The heel and toe is normally you roll your foot onto from the brake to the throttle. I couldn’t do that. So, I had to find a way of being able to use my knee and my hip to actually just roll my foot by using my hip. And that was how I was able to to blip the throttle. So, everything I was doing completely natural before was now something I had to figure out and adapt. And it was the adapting part of it, I think, makes the probably the biggest difference. The raw talent doesn’t even think about what’s going on uh when he’s when he’s driving the car. that I had to think about it all the time. So things changed physically, but they changed mentally at the same time. Little bit short, but it’s all right. You’re becoming a very annoying man. You’ve only hit two balls. Very nice. That’s better. Yeah, we’re out. That’ll do. That’s out. Looking back on your racing career. Yeah. Do you have any regrets? It’s like were there ever any team moves or opportunities you went in one direction and that looking back you kind of wish you went in another direction with in Formula 1? Probably not. Uh at Brand’s Hatch when I when I had my accident it was it was a two-part race. There was an accident in the first the first part of the race. So the red flag we started it and Brans Hatch sort of the the pole position is in a sort of a dip. So being a smart boy I thought I’d park it slightly different. I always you always get a tiny little bit of wheel spin and I thought if I park it like that so we’re going towards pad at first corner get a little bit of wheel spin it spin and go straight and it actually be no problem but as I said because it’s a dip I got a little bit of wheel spin and it just carried on going and I got stuck and I lost a couple of places because of that and then eventually the accident happened. So I sort of look back saying my wife always says it quite a lot you were the one who parked it stupidly like that. Uh so that that’s probably the only thing. I think there are other you know situations that that come to the four when you’re when you’re when you’re racing uh in Formula 1 and Lamar as well. I suppose the only one thing I would say is when I was at Lutus I I came and did half a season in ‘ 91. Then I was there with 92 93 94 and I had a long contract which I signed and I shouldn’t have signed a long contract. I should have made sure that I had probably a 2-year maximum with the opportunity of them maybe, you know, moving to a to a place that would have been more beneficial for me. That’s probably the only thing I wish I hadn’t I hadn’t done. Great part. That do. Whilst being a Formula 1 driver in 1991, you also competed in the Lamar 24 hours with Mazda where you ended up winning. Yeah. How were you able to balance a full-time race seat in Formula 1 and do the Lamar 24 hours? And I was racing in Formula Non in Japan as well. Yes. How do you balance all this? Well, it was I had the opportunity when Peter Collins took over uh Lotus with Mick Hacken and Julian Bailey and I was I was reserve driver. So, the massive thing started in 1990 anyway. So I had a contract for 19 1991. Japan was my rehab. So it was my first 1990 was the first sort of rehab I did falling nippon and sports cars. And then in ‘ 91 I just did falling nippon. And then the opportunity came up for the Canadian Grand Prix I think it was after Ila if I remember correctly where I got the call from Peter Collins to say that you know they want me to to step into to to the car. Um the balance was always I’d had a contract with the Formula Nippon first that became priority. So whenever there wasn’t a clash I was able to then do the Formula 1, but I’d always have to go back to either do a bit of testing in Nippon or a race and then Lam more itself probably wasn’t such a big thing. I think we did one test in Paul Rickard the 24-hour test and then the the race itself. So actually it didn’t take up much time. Were you expecting to be Were you expecting to be so quick, you know, in the Mazda? Uh, well, yes, because I think there was it’s the competition and you, you know, it’s it’s different in a single sector because obviously you’re competing against others in either your teammate or in a different car. But Will Moore, you got there’s three drivers, so you’re competing with each other, but you’re also working for each other to make sure that you don’t make mistakes, but you’re you’re all doing about the same time. You’re all looking after the fuel uh in the same way. So, it’s a different skill set that that you need. And probably the biggest difficulty I had was Formula 1, it’s it’s an hour and a half, two hours maximum, but generally sort of an hour and a half, hour 40. And of course a sports car in Lal there’s a stint um which is about 40 45 minutes or something like that. We did two stints um there. So that was an hour and a half and then it just goes on through the whole 24 hours. I didn’t go to sleep I think we got up at 7:00 in the morning. I didn’t go to sleep until about 12 1:00 in the morning. And then I was already knackered because I was completely um oblivious that I had to save as much energy. If I if there was a 45 40 45 a 40 second power nap, I should take the 45se secondond power nap. And but I didn’t and I was totally destroyed at the end of the race, especially in 91. But the tool set was was slightly different and that was the challenge. And I good two good teammates with Bur and Gasho. but did Formula 4 with right at the beginning and then Vulka Vulkar Vidler as well who was very good in a in a sports car. So you could learn actually off of Vulca of how he he drove the car. So it’s just a a different way of of driving, but there was always ways of being able to make it work for us as a team. And I think that was probably the biggest challenge that we all had. And did you enjoy the podium? And I know that is a loaded question. Well, it happened 20 years later. No, that particular said, “What?” Cuz you passed out. Yeah, but as I said, I was up from 7 to 1:00 in the morning. The most stupid thing that I can think of that someone would would do when you’re doing a 24-hour. Well, it worked until I remember stepping out of the I still remember this now. It was the 4:00 and in those days 4:00 on the circuit, wherever it was, that was the end of the race. Nowadays, it’s check flag finish. So when it when it came and I was feeling a little bit little bit dizzy because I’d been asked to do an extra stint and a half I think it was my my fluid had run out. I probably hadn’t taken enough fluid before that cuz I didn’t think I was going to get back in the car. So So the it finished and I was driving back to the uh the paddock feeling all very happy and everything else. And I still remember I’m flicking the the latch, opening the door, undoing my belts, getting out, and my body was still sitting in the seat. There was this ghost that was sort of hovering outside going, I don’t feel very good. I remember walking around the back of the car. I think my dad was there and I basically just collapsed collapsed in his lap because completely destroyed. So, uh, you’re right. I didn’t quite get to the podium. I chunked it maybe. Oh, a nice little bounce. Oh, not like that. Come on. Roll up. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. I had a friend. I tell you what, it’s done. There you go. Done pretty well. I had a friend who did that. Got a hole in one. Favorite F1 livery of all time? JPS. If you could have dinner with any historical figure, who would it be? Jeeville Nerve. Favorite helmet design? Probably. I What I did like and I like the yellow that was in his helmet. It was Jody Shakar. Lando or Oscar for the World Championship this year? I think Lando has got what it takes. Who was the most underrated driver of your era? I think the the guy that should have been given a chance and unfortunately he smashed me and many other people many times at Lamal is Tom Christensen. Favorite car you ever raced? Uh the Lotus 107. Who was your idol growing up? Uh Junov once again. What’s been the proudest moment of your career? Winning Silverstone at my home Grand Prix. Favorite track? Used to be Spar. Not anymore. Too much runoff area. Probably Suzuka. Give me your Mount Rushmore Formula 1. Your top four drivers of all time. Oh god. Jimmy Clark. I’m going to throw Sterling in there as well. Then I’ve got to go Nikki Lauder through everything he went through uh out center. See, I wasn’t aiming there. Now you’ve got one of those grips. Nice. Yeah. One of those weird ones. Yeah. Well, they’re quite popular at the moment, aren’t they? Yeah, they are very popular. Great part. Johnny, you were such a big part of Skye’s F1 coverage for so many years. When they decided to not renew your role in 2023, how did that sit with you? Uh, it was it was a shame because I enjoyed doing what I was doing. I always thought I was trying to be as truthful as I possibly could and I was trying to tell things as they were. Uh, which I think came across very well. I enjoyed working with Don as well. We always seem to have this unbelief because we’re so chalk and cheese, but somehow we seem to work work together. So, I enjoyed that. And it was a disappointment at the end that things they felt needed to move on and change. Um, it came not as a total total surprise. Um, and I suppose that’s been in the the Formula 1 bubble for so so many years that you know that things do shift and change. maybe not in your favor sometimes and sometimes they do. But I’m I’m glad I had that what 11 years 10 11 years of it and it was it was fun while while I was doing it and things move on. But the the sky thing was was was a shame and uh you know we need to have people that can be very understanding of what it’s like to do a contract and be in a car and be in a car at the same time. And that’s something that is maybe a little bit little bit lacking, but I think, you know, it’s it’s just it’s just different. Oh, yeah. I think it’s Yeah. Lovely. Uh-oh. What? You hit them. I don’t know. That guy’s looking back at me. That’s nice. That’s all right. Can you remember your first big paycheck in Formula 1 and kind of what you bought with it? Well, I think in my first season, I’m sure it it was about 200 if I remember correctly. 200 pound. No, two two 200 200 200,000 I think it was, which was not which which was not not so bad. Uh and I wanted to get a Cossworth at that point, but it never quite worked out. I bought a house instead. Okay. So, that’s started from that. And then the only time I bought something that I I wanted um a skyline, this skyline in 99 Stuart. Oh, very nice. And that’s that was a car that was brilliant. I used to take the Cossworth guys around Silverstone when we were doing testing and stuff like that and it was all sideways and the pop offs were fantastic. So, I really enjoyed that one. I grew up hearing stories about Stuart Grand Prix through my dad and my granddad, but I’d love to hear your version. What was it really like having two Stuarts, you know, as your boss? Hell. Hell. No, it was it was an amazing experience because uh granddad Zachie wanted to be a big part of the team, but he also wanted to be a big part of the drivers. He always took I think all his drivers bar one driver to Alton Park and it was a you know full Escort Cossworth or whatever it may have been. I wonder who that one driver was. Yes, I wonder who that one driver was. Yes, he’s his son’s doing quite well. I think so at the present time. Yes, he staff and said, “No, I’m not going.” And I think that was where Sajjaki sort of said, “That guy would never drive through ever again.” And he didn’t. But that period was so nice to be there with Reuben, obviously. Reuben’s Varicella, wonderful, wonderful guy to be to be a teammate with. You had a good working relationship. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was nice. you know, he hasn’t got any that edgy side to him where he’s trying to have you over and he’s trying to work with the team gave stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That wasn’t Reuben Reuben’s way. It was he was very much a very important part of the very very beginnings of course in ’96 and then that third place they got in Monaco third place third place they got in Monaco um and then he’d led a couple of races during that 99 season and of course then Nurburging you know myself been able to get that win and then Ruben’s on the podium at the same time and the celebration we had on that podium as well was just a lovely lovely time and I’m I was so lucky that everything so all the stars aligned for that for that weekend in Nurburging, but it was it was a wonderful place to to work with. So, I have some really good memories of how, you know, Paul and Jackie did help and I probably had my tantrums, as I said, every now and again, but that’s part and parcel of the passion we all have for for the sport. So, for Stuart Grand Prix, it was a wonderful period of formula 1 to have a a family of the Stuart the Stuart name and everything that Jackie achieved in his uh racing career. I don’t know if we’re ever going to see that again. Get in there. Nice. Easily. Easily done. Nice, Johnny. Johnny, thank you very much for that. I really appreciate it. It’s been amazing. Really, really good.