Introducing Coore & Crenshaw’s New England Gem at The International | Beyond the Pines | S.2 Ep.3

Introducing Coore & Crenshaw’s New England Gem at The International | Beyond the Pines | S.2 Ep.3

[Music] just different things. You you’ll see things out there probably a little bit different. It’ll be it’ll be things that you from New England I think will be comfortable with. Um but to us it represents golf in New England. I was wondering what you what do you think of as the character of New England dolphins? natural, you know, keep the natural elements, the landforms and the vegetation and the retrained from the areas like the country club where they left the the rock outcroppings and didn’t move hills when they didn’t need it. Well, they didn’t have any method of moving them anyway when they did that. So, it’s just find a piece of ground that’s interesting and uh hopefully has a bit of quirkiness to it and try to let that define and guide the golf course. We hope I don’t know, Rich, but we hope that it’s going to look and feel like New England. That’s that’s the goal. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Corin Cshaw. I think a lot of people would argue they’re the most dynamic course designers in the country. They’re also not a ton of their courses in New England. I think this is their second. So, you know, they’re known for redoing Pinehurst number two, bringing that back to life in its current form. You could go through the whole list. So, it’s pretty special to know that they came up to Massachusetts a second time and probably the last time they’ll they’ll do that. So, um to have them mixed in with what we have here in state, it’s pretty cool. [Music] I’m of the opinion at least that no matter how much imagination you have or even how much money you have to work with before if it’s a really bad site it’s it’s extraordinarily difficult if not impossible to create a golf course that’s as interesting as one that has a lot of natural entrance for golf that you don’t have to do much with. the randomness, the just the again quirkiness, the uh just the the difference that interesting land forms, interesting vegetation, interesting situations can provide for golf is far greater than whatever you can just visualize in your head and try to put on paper. [Music] Getting to walk the golf course with Bill Core will probably stay as a highlight of my career the rest of my life. I mean, this guy is a master at his craft. This is a golf course that was very evidently from the beginning one of the best that I’ll ever play, I think. um and to just kind of pick his brain. And you didn’t even have to pick that hard cuz he’s just a wealth of knowledge and he’s very casual about sharing it and he’s very uh eloquent when he’s talking about his work and and Ben’s work I should say. But um it was an amazing opportunity to write about it afterwards and I’d like to say that that was enough to be fulfilling, but as a golfer you’re also like I got to get out there and play this golf course. Well, hold on. Hang on a minute. Don’t ever go into a swing telling yourself that. See, this is the positivity you were talking about earlier. Like, this is what we need. So, see the card all the way through there? Those carts? Just aim at that and hit it. Perfect. Taylor Twoman brings the energy. I I don’t know if he has an off because man, he has energy from the second he shows up. So, Ray, I’m going to play your caddy. So, so I kind of Do you normally play cut or no? Uh, right now I’m about to draw. Oh, that’s sexy as hell. He’s one of the best soccer players to ever come out of this country. He He was Mr. England Revolution. He was the MVP of the league um back when he was playing. And he also played for the men’s national team. Also a phenomenal golfer. He plays in a lot a lot of those PGA Tour sanctioned events. He’s a plus three. He hits the ball a mile. So, we felt like he was a great addition to uh to our show here today. All right. So, Stephen, we’re going to play the tips today, okay? Cuz naturally, we should get our teeth kicked in. Yeah. Why did we choose these holes? Well, it’s all just great golf holes. They’re memorable. They’re different, and they call for a lot of different shots, and it happened to line up nicely. We had Taylor fly in. He had just done a national game on Sunday night. He flew in Monday morning, came straight to the club, and uh we had done a full media day that morning, and he’s like, “Yeah, we we just don’t have time to play a full 18 here.” So, why don’t we find the best part of the course? He’s a member there. He sees it every day or at least every week. Um, and we we agreed that that closing stretch is just as good as it gets. So, say this time next year, all that fescue’s grown in. Mhm. That’s a way different. This is It’s a postcard. I think this is the mo this is the most difficult hole to score on because the green can take you you can get a great shot and you don’t get rewarded. So 14 it’s it’s very visually appealing from the tea. It’s a mid to longish par three. What’ you say right? 205 playing yeah 197 198. Okay into the wind though. So I think it’s playing like 206. Okay. Anywhere right of that pin we should be good. But even if you hit Stephen, you could hit hybrid to the right fringe. It will come down. [Music] It’s got to go hard. I missed it. Cover. Go hard. Cover. Nope. That bunker is really It is. It’s perfect for TV. You got to legitimately Now, if I carry that bunker, I’m probably 2 feet with how the green is. [Music] I missed it. I’m with you. You don’t even realize how crazy the green is until you get up there. You can see, you can definitely tell um you know with perfect lighting some of the shoulders and and elevation changes, but once you get up there, I mean, Taylor had us like try and chip this into the rough up here and watch it come all the way down to the hole. That’s the only way you’re going to keep it within 10 ft here. [Music] Now, Ray, jump in front if it comes in hot. [Music] Oh, that’s gone. Is that too much? Nope. Come on. Come on. Here we go. This is for you. Too far. Going a little too loud. I think it got stuck. Same. Isn’t that amazing? Oh, it bumps it right to start. It does. But if I go left, I’m off the green. So, like Ray and I were talking about it. If you’re in a stroke play event, you’re in the middle of the green, right? What do you do? You putt here and take four. Um, and you can spend a whole day just on that green, just kind of trying to find different ways to get it in these different pockets of the green. So well thought out, pretty demanding um but really beautiful too. 15, you know, like yes, they don’t want to have a signature hole, but from the time we went and visited to playing there, like that’s the hole to me that just like as good as it gets. I think 15 is 15 is spectacular. it given the land like you don’t think it would be and it’s one that it was the first hole we walked with Bill and I my mind was blown from the jump and he’s talking about little can we put a little pitch pine here so that their ey lines going this way instead of this way we were just standing back on the tea and looking and the the triangular part of the building draws your eyes so much that you almost don’t focus on how the hole comes around thing and then turns back this way. Oh, interesting. So, we kept looking at it. This is stuff that just evolves and been looking at it a long time. Michael, if you could find one, you know, pitch mine that’s say 10 ft tall or something and plant it right there, it’ll just break up. It won’t hide anything, but it’ll just break it up enough to give this the feeling that the hole does kind of swing around the pine and then back. And all I can think about is this amazing boomerang green that sits at the base of this hill that’s all going to be fescued in. And if there’s a back left pin, which I really wish we got, you can’t see it from the fairway and you’re kind of just hitting it back there and hoping for the best. I think another thing that’s really cool about it is you get a peek at it, right? It’s right next to the first te. So you look over, we of course know a little bit about that hole, but it’s that anticipation of throughout the round like I can’t wait till I get to that part of the course, specifically that hole. Um, and it’s one of those unique things where you get to see it as you’re teeing off on the first and I think that probably plays into it a little bit. So anyway, we came out and the escalology guys stood up on top. They looked at on the screen and we didn’t know what they were thinking. And uh they came down, they looked around, looked around and I’m going, “You can see if they buy into this, we’re going to be okay.” And they just said, “We love it.” [Music] And then following that up with one of the most fascinating short par 3s around. Oh, so good. So good. Stay. I was going to say if you [Music] Oh, boy. Now watch this. This could be This could be in the bunker. It’s unbelievable this morning. Nate, you want to hit one? Good swing. Hang on. Look at that. [Music] Oh boy. With the foot slipping out. I know. The ons are just not a good golf shoe. That’s it. That’s actually awesome. Oh, come back. It is, dude. It’s there. Look at this. [Music] Oh, this could be He could have I was going to say the bunker shot that nobody wants on camera. Um, that bunker is deep. It’s uh it’s massive. I think when we were looking at aerials, it’s as big as the green itself, which from the tea, you can’t really te see that. Um, but knowing that it’s like, yeah, definitely don’t want to be messing around over there. But when we were talking to Bill Core, we kind of identified that little pot bunker, that tiny thing is going to be the biggest problem of this hole. It’s not the huge bunker on the left. It’s that little tiny thing. And once you know it, we we certainly found our way over there um for quite a bit to it. So, you can hit it with some pace. Even that wasn’t hard enough. Try it one more time. Yeah. Go. That is so good. And by the way, that was a full shoulder turn. But it’s it’s natural, right? You you want to stay away from that massive uh that massive bunker which your eyes drawn you to. And it’s that one tiny little pop bunker that plays um plays such a huge role in the hole because otherwise it was just the the little pitch three. The grassy bike air bunker. Yeah. Right there. Yeah. and we talked about this and I know man and Ben came one time [Music] a little bunker right over there and he started laughing. He goes I think he said and I think [Music] Come on. Boom. Wow. Two. There we go. All right. Rick. [Music] And then 17. It started pouring rain when we got there with Taylor and everyone was still just like bought in to trying stuff out. You know, I ran up to the green to try to get balls landing because the the flag was cut on the shelf. You had to land it on the shelf or you might be ejected 30 yards down the slope. Actually, this one and the next one uh and the 14th was probably the most as far as contour, right? The most seated. They’re all built greens and enough that are built on shelves coming off side deals. You know, that’s tough because you got to all this dirt was piled in here and you got to build it up and prop it up and and how do you how do you do that? So, Stephen, a little closer to the pin. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Do it. I hit it closer. You have to cut a little promo for us hyping up the show. Absolutely. Which, you know, we’re gonna do anyways. And if not, uh, you you tell me. Mask off gear and balls. Not you can absolutely semi-geear. That’s off. Bets off. But by the way, this green that ball could be in the camera wasn’t ready. So you got to do it again. We got two more. We got that counts for the bet. And you know, it it was like little kids running around just enjoying getting soaked but enjoying what the golf course was demanding and and daring you to try. Two things. One, I think that’s a great testament to a great hole when it’s I mean it opened up. I don’t know if the the camera shows it. I think it did, but like it was pouring and everyone looked at each other and we’re looking at Taylor like, “Hey, you’re taking us around this place like you’ve played it 100 times. You don’t need to.” and he’s like, “Yeah, we need to get up there.” And and we wanted to and everyone was happy to just get dumped on with rain. Um usually a sign of a good golf hole there. Golf shot. I didn’t get it enough. Yeah, you did. Nope. Oh my goodness, dude. You called me. I knew it. The best part is just hitting this right on top of Rich’s head. That’ll feed down, right? Yep. I wanted to see. Here we go. That’s gonna play perfect for the cameras. That’s the other cool thing. Who would have known? It’s a great green, isn’t it? Oh my god. I think around the greens, it’s one of those places where you would love to just be out there at 7:30 at night with a bag of balls and just trying shots. And I think that’s what we had a lot of fun doing with Taylor is he he was very interested in making sure that we were trying these things because he was like a kid in the candy shop with it and I think he recognized that we would be as well. So just throwing balls on top of slopes and seeing what’s going to feed down. Uh, I think it’s a testament to a great golf course when you finish a hole and you maybe you made four, like you made a very practical four and you hit the green in regulation and you’re like, can I go back with a wedge and like chip a little bit here just to see what kind of shots I can play and there’s a ton of variety that you can go into. You can hit nippy spinners if you have that in the bag. You can putt it from off the green. Um, it’s just so much fun and it gets your mind racing which is all you can ask for. Literally, this is where you want it to stop. Okay. If it’s a little short, it’s fine. Yeah. If it stops short of the fringe, though, it won’t go all the way down. A lot uphill, too. Full shoulder. Oh, yeah. This is [Music] Nope. Just a tad too far. [Music] Watch this, dude. Watch this. You see this? If it didn’t rain, this is We didn’t just get dumped on for Try another ball. Try it one more time. So, I got to be farther right than I was. Well, you’re aiming I mean, no joke, you’re aiming at the rake, right? So, literally, it’s got to stop here. So, you can go a little more right firm. Asked me over there. He said, “How many which holes would you recommend people come out with some balls?” and around the greens. I can do it almost any one. That sounds really self- serving. Um, that’s the goal. [Music] How did you feel kind of getting to that final green, our 27th hole of the day? Uh, having finally just had the full experience at the Pines Course. It’s thoughtful. It looks rugged. It looks like it’s been there forever. But I know I talked to you a lot about this. It also is kind of cool that you’re kind of going through a graveyard of many other designs on this land. This land was always going to be um a place for golf. And it’s interesting that it’s in yet another iteration. Hopefully the last iteration of its kind, but it’s kind of cool to play through and kind of wonder and and kind of see. It looks like that was probably some golf over there. That was some over there. But this is the best way to play golf on this land. What’s the first thing that rushes to your mind? Surprisingly, it’s like how close to Lynx golf it plays. Um, it stands out to me in the state because even courses that are maybe more seaside don’t have that same amount of, you know, seemingly random ripplings in the fairway and and odd kicks you can get and you can play the ball along the ground. Stephen, this is why I love this place cuz the oaks I love, but that is your prototypical target golf. Great greens, bunkers, but it’s it’s lying for you. This is this place a lot like links. Yeah. Which is wild cuz we don’t have that here. I’m 250. I’m going to hit I’ll hit a 4 iron and try to run it up there versus trying to get it all the way in the back. At least that’s the plan. [Music] It was kind of I’m happy you said that the the ball on the ground because I can think back to a very specific moment. It was the 11th hole, the par five. I hit a poor drive and then it was all right, the layup. What do we have to do here? And like we were talking about before, Taylor and Ray were kind of breaking down like, “All right, here’s what we got to do.” No, I’ve had I’ve had a Stephen, I’ve had the shot. What club you got? 52 to keep it under this. Yeah, dude. I’m telling you right now. Landed here. Yeah. If you’re here, it goes this way. So, you want to be just off my left shoulder. All right. We saw how the aim went last time. You got it. Oh, killed. No. Good shot. Yeah, Stella. It is so nerve-wracking with these two looking over every shot. Um, but it’s that anticipation and and the joy of watching a ball work its way along the ground. You can go out there and play chess with this golf course and try to be predictive and play all those bounces. You can just as easily go out there and let this routing that feels very natural just guide you along for 18 holes and it’ll be a lovely walk and your ball will roll around and you’ll go chase it and hit the next one and that that could be just as fun. And yes, you can see the spots where it’s somewhat newer, but if you kind of blur your eyes a little bit and and in certain spots, it looks like it was meant to be there. It looks like it has been there. Um, it doesn’t look like bulldozers came in and just moved earth everywhere. Um, so it’s tough because you do know that is new and you do know that this hole crossed over four other holes of the previous course and if you’re looking for it, you can see a little corridor of like I don’t know if that was a green or whatever, but it definitely looks like golf was there. Agreed. Um, so it’s it’s a feeling that you just you don’t have in golf that often. It’s kind of cool. Ben Krenshaw maybe doesn’t get the same amount of credit for the physical designs all the time, but how neat is it that this guy who captained the Rder Cup at the Country Club and played there in the US Junior when he was a kid is pulling from his memories of the country club and they talk about it a lot in deference to what they did with the Rocky outcroppings there and how they crafted this New England feeling course. And here’s this guy who has, you know, the most legendary moments in in our state’s history as a player, you know, drawing on that and creating a course that will hopefully stand forever. Well, my my genesis was when I was 16, I played the country club in Brooklyn for the first time, and I could not get over how different that was in my upbringing from Texas. And I couldn’t believe, you know, I saw some very interesting features in architecture that I never dreamed to see. granite outcropping cliffs and fairways and vast drops and you know things that were very unusual. But I I knew the historical importance of country club and other courses like it that I just uh really it made a deep impression on me. It’s it’s like looking at their Ben talking about the granite outcroppings at the country club and playing blind shots over the hills sometimes and things like that that are almost there for a period of time. Not quite so much currently, but for a long time were taboo. Yeah. You just didn’t do it. That wasn’t fair. That wasn’t this. That wasn’t that. Um, you know, when we came to this site, we’re going maybe we can do a little of that. This is New England. They’re a little more used to quirky. Uhhuh. You know, they drive on these roads. They know how this some strange things happen. And it was because of the land forms. Y and the easiest way to negotiate those land forms whether you’re traveling or whether you’re playing golf. [Music] You know, we we talk about it being very New England. I think there’s got to be something too to the little story he told us about snowfall playing a huge factor in him seeing those sight lines. if you want to touch on that. Yeah, that story made me so happy. I mean, it was sort of whimsical to think of this this absolute genius of golf course design asking the super to pull the pins out so he didn’t know where the greens were and tugging on his boots. And he’s from the south, so it’s probably not something he does all the time. So, when I first came it was it was late years cold. There was no one. I just asked the super daddy to pull up all the flag sticks. You can’t help but look at flag sticks. Pull them up just walking. And uh and then the best thing happened. It snowed. I was up here for three or four days and it snowed. Not a lot, you know, 2 3 in. But then you didn’t look at the colors of the grass or anything. You’re just looking at landforms. But to your point, yes, it’s it’s very difficult to not see what’s there. You have to start looking past it. But the ground’s telling you. And it’s just so easy to picture and him leaving these boot tracks and just taking it all in. This guy who’s a naturalist and known to be at one with what was there, you know, from glacial erosion and stuff. So, uh, really cool. Oh, am I supposed to keep talking?

In this episode, we get direct insights into the brand new Pines course at the International from world-renowned course designers Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw. Plus, we dig into the brilliant closing stretch with member and former MLS star Taylor Twellman.