Today’s show aired LIVE from Rusacks St. Andrews overlooking the iconic home of golf with the R&A and 1st tee at St. Andrews in the backdrop. We were joined by Korn Ferry Tour member Cole Hammer and golf writer Sean Zak. Zak talked about the FedEx playoffs, some Hall of Famers winding down and about his summer long trip to Scotland and what he learned. Hammer, who has joined all year as part of his professional journey, touched on the state of his game, what he loved most about amateur golf and some University of Texas alums including Scottie Scheffler.
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[Music] and a very good morning. or good afternoon if you are where I am at the home of golf. Yes, we left our home in Charlotte to come to the home of golf. You can see the beautiful RNA building behind me on this Tuesday morning 8:00 on the east coast of the United States 1:00 local time right here in St. Andrews. And of course, this program wherever we are, home or on the road, is always brought to you by Century Insurance right by you. Their great relationships in the game include the USGA and the first T. Golf pride. When it comes to trusting a grip company, every player at every level trust Golf pride more than any other company in the world. Peter Malar, wherever I go around the world, including right here, every single shop has more of Peter Malard than any other apparel provider because they are the standard. And of course, we’re at the home of golf. But the cradle of American golf is Pioneers. So, we’re so proud to be aligned with them. They always have something new to offer you if you’ve not been there since number 10 became available for you to play. Well, now the clubhouse and the restaurant that accompanies it is available. And they’ve got a new restaurant. They got Piner number 11 under construction soon enough from Core Crrenshaw. And of course, where we are, you can see what a splendid afternoon it is here at St. Andrews. We are at Rousax Hotel that is overlooking my balcony is from the room 116. this beautiful little hospitality room. If you walk through this room, you would see every important moment that has happened here. And there are so many. We thank them for their great hospitality all week long. And I will tell you, we are going to be joined by somebody today who wrote a book about spending a summer here. He’s one of the better writers. He has been a regular contributor here uh throughout this year of 2025. And that is Sean Zack of Golf Magazine, Golf.com. He made the choice. He he got a got together with his editors and they decided that they were going to work on a book and it was during a time where times were turbulent in the game of golf and they decided you know what we are going to send you to the old course for the summer and so he wrote a book called searching in St. Andrews. It was the the summer of 2022, the Open Championship was played here and he stayed the entire summer and his book is a wonderful examination on finding not only more about yourself but more about the game of golf as well. So Sean is going to join me in a little bit later on a guy who is a regular contributor to this program and that is Cole Hammer on the corn ferry tour and somebody who is living his life as a professional golfer and look it’s the middle of August. He’s 77th in the cornfairy point standings, which is a tenuous place to be right now. And when we get with Cole, we don’t talk so much about results. We talk about his journey. So, I’m looking forward to talking to him. I know he has been here. So, his own experiences. And let me just spend a couple minutes about being here and and some kind of reflections on not only yesterday, but really over the course of coming here for the last 30 years. There is a duality about this place that no other place really has. Yes, there are other places around the world that are accessible to the public like Pebble Beach. Now, Pebble Beach is something where if you go there, it’s not owned by the town like this place is. It was acquired by the town in 1894. The RNA building over my shoulder, the RNA was established in 1754. They’ve been around a while and they’ve obviously been governing the game around the world and then in conjunction with the USGA for more than two decades. Uh they they put the rules together. But when you come here, I think about not only what I witnessed late yesterday on a glorious early evening. It was so flat calm here. And this is a golf course that if it’s just that and especially if you have the best players in the world, uh they’re going to take complete and full advantage of it. But if you’re a recreational golfer to come here, it’s not only what you’ve seen through the years watching major championships, the Open Championship and now on occasion the AIG Women’s Open Championship that is contested here. It’s that it’s those images whether you want to start when maybe your life in golf started. I I think about Doug Sanders in 1970 trying to wish a putt in on the 18th hole and he was playing alongside Lee Trevino and Lee was watching Doug just agonize over this short little downhill left to right putt and he literally got almost into a catcher’s crouch going come on man please just go ahead and make it. He wasn’t rooting against Jack Nicholas because if he didn’t make it, there was going to be a playoff with Jack. And of course, he missed it. And then Jack won and he threw his putter up in the air and almost hit Doug Sanders on the skull. That was 1970. And then if you think about 1984 and I think Sebie Bastero’s had a lot of amazing moments, but his silhouette, his moment, his apex was right back there was on that 18th green. Kim fist pumping over and over and over again in Navy and sconce from head to toe. John Daly in 1995. And yes, he had already won the PGA in 1991, but he came here and he won the Open Championship after Constantino Roa flubbed his third and then made that bomb from again, you can see the Valley of Sin right over my shoulder, the front of that 18th green. And then 2000 when Tiger came here at the age of 24 already with an opportunity because he had already won the Masters in 97 and he won the PGA at Madina in 1999. And of course he lapped the field a month before in June of 2000 at Pebble Beach. And then he came here and for the margin that Pebble Beach was in 2000, most people, me included, that his performance here 25 years ago was his opus. And I think that it was amplified in the crescendo for him was when he played the 14th hole, the par 514th coming home and he asked Steve Williams what the what the line was. And Steve Williams pointed out a spire in a chapel in this town as you play inward when you make the loop and turn home after you play the short par 31 11th and then 12 you’re coming home with purpose. and he hit that second shot and not long after impact he said that one that was his not greatest moment because you could say even the Masters of 97 considering the historical uh implications and ramifications was not only the beginning but will always be the most important or you could say 19 but I think like him striking every perfect chord certainly was heared and the last thing I’ll say is about Arnold Palmer coming here for the last time because he was in a gray jacket and it was a gray day and it was so important when he started coming here in 1960. You know, he didn’t win here in 1960, one the following year and then the year after that. But him coming here in this sense that that was going to be goodbye and it was see all of those very public moments are met with the duality of everybody’s private moment if they had the chance to come here and I watched last night sitting up there in the rooftop restaurant on a glorious night from 6:00 to 7:00 group after group come off the road whole green hit their t-shots on 18 pause take a photo on this Bulen Bridge and then walk up the 18th into town to play their closing hole. And every one of them without exception grab the other people in their group to share that moment together because whether they’ve waited their whole lives to do it or maybe they’re doing it for the fifth or sixth time, the fact is they made a choice to be here and spend the most precious commodity together here and that is time. That’s why this place can’t be touched really by any other place. The vitality, the spirit, the liveless of this town is unlike anything else in the world, not just in the world of golf. That’s why it’s so special to be here. All right, when we continue, we’ll dive into some things as it relates to what’s going on on the PJ tour because they go to Caves Valley, which I think they’re going to have a great week because the place is going to be lthered up to have the best players in the world. Rory was on property yesterday. We’ll talk to Shawn Zach of Golf Magazine about that. We’ll also get his thoughts about spending a summer here and writing a book about searching in St. Andrews and a little bit later on Cole Hammer. Plus, a little update on the US Amter. They began yesterday stroke play qualifying at the Olympic Club out there in San Francisco. We’re going to be joined by Brentley Romine tomorrow live from San Francisco after they cut down to the low 64. Don’t know if they’ll determine that tonight. don’t know if they’ll have playoffs to get to that field of 64 for match play. So that to follow. Great to have you with us a Tuesday morning. As you can see, I’m in the best place in the world. I’m in St. Andrews at Rousax Hotel live on Golf Channel and also on PJ Tour Radio. That is channel 92 on SiriusXM. We are back with Shan Zach right after this. [Music] Welcome back in. It’s great to have you with us on this Tuesday here on Five Clubs. Gary Williams live from St. Andrews. And no, that is not green screen. That is uh exactly what you’re seeing here uh from the home of golf from room 116, the balcony at Rousax Hotel. And this segment is being brought to you by Golf Pride. Uh there is no company that provides you with better product, better materials, better options through the bag, including that reverse taper putter grip series than Golf Pride. All right, joining me now, somebody who spent ample time here, not only covering major championships, but he along with the the great folks at Golf Magazine said, “You know what? Let’s let’s anchor you there and let’s let you write a book.” And we’re going to talk about that with Shan Zach of Golf Magazinegolf.com because searching in St. Andrews is just that. It was his search during a turbulent time in golf. It was 2022 when guys were splintering away from the PGA Tour to Live. Uh and Liv still exists and the PGA Tour seems to be doing just fine. Sean joins me now. Good morning, my friend. I know you see this view and you go, “My gosh, take me back.” Yeah, definitely take me back. I can hear the seagulls behind you and I just think that that is what says Scotland to me. It’s what says St. Andrews to me is like as early as they want to wake up is when you’re going to wake up. Um but there’s like few better alarm clocks in the world of sport than being in St. Andrews and having the seagulls uh make you wake up. It’s uh it’s combination of seagulls, dogs barking. They are they are preferred citizens here. Uh you know how it is here. whether it’s on the golf courses in these establishments. We’re going to get to all of that because I do want to examine your process of of pursuing doing a book like you did in the summer of 2022. But let me get to some PGA Tour items with you. Get your perspective on a couple things. Let’s start with Memphis. Look, you can’t ask for more if you’re the tour. You get this diverse, eclectic, decorated leaderboard. You get a playoff. You get the best player in the world who’s right there to the bitter end. But there’s something about all this money that people’s kind of their senses are dulled by it all. I don’t know how committed people are to all of whether it’s relegation or elevation and points and the top 50 and how valuable that is. Can the event alone and getting all that they got Sunday be enough? Yeah, I think so. mostly just because what it checks right now in terms of boxes is you have something important happening at the top. You have something pretty important happening in the middle and then like obviously littered throughout is like these guys are going to be here next year. This is the top 50 that they are playing for. One of the best things that the English Premier League does when it comes to relegation is that they have your Liverpools and your Manchester United’s playing up at the top and then you have clubs like mine, Everton, who are floundering a little bit at the bottom. But if you flounder too much, then you’re done. You get dropped down. You got to bring yourself back up somehow next year and it’s not going to be easy. It just it creates two different matches happening at once. And I think if the tour gets just a little bit smarter, they can do that in every single one of their playoff events. And then you have people that are caring about something that’s off the leaderboard, right? Something that’s outside the top five. I think that that’s kind of the sweet spot for golf tournaments. Do you think that that bonafide relegation? Because, you know, let’s take Jordan Speed as a perfect example. He’s a brand name. He’s a valuable commodity of the PGA Tour. He took advantage of of that status uh by getting sponsor exemptions in signature series events that he wasn’t already already exempt in. Ricky Fowler, same thing. So speak out, but we don’t feel that there’s any sense of relegation. Is that an achievable thing with the sensitivity to the reliance of sponsorship for the tour to be able to do that? That is one of the biggest darn if you do darn it if you do don’t things that golf has going right now is like you cannot find a single tournament director who doesn’t want Jordan speed playing his tournament. You just won’t. They will roll out the red carpet for him. And at the same time there’s not a single PJ tour player in the middle class that thinks well Jordan Speed is so good that he should play everything. He should be ahead of me. And so, you know, I think the tour has showed its hand in the last few years, which is like sponsors are as important as anyone. They are probably the one person, well, the one group that you consider behind the players. And so, I think if you ask the sponsor class, they are going to say it is really nice to have four of these for these signature events. We’re paying a lot of money to fund these $20 million purses. We need to have our say and if it comes down to Jordan Speed who’s really just like on the knife’s edge between top 50 and and you know 54 I think it’s going to be okay. You know Joel Beal from Golf Digest did tweet out a really good idea though. He he said essentially if you do this in consecutive seasons then you won’t have the exemptions counting in that second season which is is just to say like hey you missed the top 50 if you’re a bigname player you can get exemptions into the signature events in year one but if you miss the top 50 in year one having had all that opportunity and access we’re not going to allow you to get the exemptions in year two. I think that is a really good line of like hey play better. That is one of the like ultimate quotes that define the PGA Tour is just play better. Yeah. And I I I saw that idea and I like that idea. And again, this allows me to invoke one of my favorite lines from a movie, A Beautiful Mind. Conviction is reserved for those left on the sidelines. Like that’s what we want and it’s sensible. But then it gets back to the business model. And you’re going, “Wait, excuse me. I just gave you a $200 million check for a signature series contract for seven years and you’re telling me that that guy’s not going to be eligible for my tournament if he falls out of the 50? Again, I like it. Here’s the other thing that I heard kicked around, Sean, is the idea that really separate it, celebrate the regular season, and then make this as turbulent as you can where the guys truly who are advancing are based on the result of that event alone. Is that something that’s digestible for you? I wish it was. Uh, but I don’t think so. Mostly because if Scotty Sheffler rolled his ankle last week Tuesday and then just couldn’t find it in himself to finish tied for third like he did, uh, instead he finishes tied for 53rd, then suddenly you don’t have him playing this week. Uh, and you wouldn’t have him playing next week. I think that that is too important to the PJ tour. The collection of individual companies that are, you know, trying to always have the top players finishing, you know, I guess at the end of the season. I think that that’s I think he’s too important. Um, and Rory in in that same vein is too important with what they’ve done this season that I don’t know. I don’t want the tour championship to happen necessarily without Justin Thomas. He’s earned his place place to get there and if he wouldn’t play well this week at Caves Valley, not having him there would feel like a miss to me. Yeah, that’s fair. I I just think that look I I Brendan Porath who was on yesterday expressed it last week. If you keep changing it, all you’re doing is proving it that you still don’t have it right. And now we are headed into to year 20, which is an unfathomable thought that we’re 20 years into this thing. Justin Rose wins. That was another thing that I talked about yesterday that I think that for whatever reason we do this in sports like longevity. It’s almost like everybody has an expiration date like hey man enough LeBron like like go away. Now not everybody’s saying that but there’s there’s some people who are and the guy’s still an elite player and he’s of the age that he is. Justin Rose’s longevity to me is wildly impressive. So I ask you this. When you examine guys in their 40s, give me guys who you think are close to certain to get into the World Golf Hall of Fame, and I’m hitting you cold with this, but I mean, if if you started to exercise your mind on the 40s and who that group is, who’s getting in? Yeah, good question. You know, Justin Rose, I’ve actually asked him about this and I’ve asked a few other players about this. Like, who do you consider part of your generation? And frankly, it’s a few dudes in his generation that are going to do it. I think it’ll be him. It’ll be Adam Scott, a player who has had just as long of a career and and has kind of checked just the same number of boxes. Players championship. Yeah, they are. It’s insane, actually. Why um the the other player that they consider part of their generation is Sergio Garcia and Sergio’s going to get you know at some point the last few years have been a little bit of turmoil in Sergio’s public facing life. He hasn’t always, it’s been a bit of a roller coaster with him, but Mast’s champion, uh, he has just been the best player maybe in Ryder Cup history. Like, he has done so much and he continues to play very good golf. And then the last name I think of, I mean, obviously Tiger Woods is still technically in his 40s, but on the on the earlier side of things, Dustin Johnson is in his 40s. Dustin Johnson uh, is probably going to retire in the next five years. He’s told me that in years past. He’s told other people like we’re going down the path towards the end of the road here. And then you have to take in the totality of what he did since he kind of arrived on the scene in ’09. I mean, it was winning every single year. He may not win this year. He may not win a live event in the calendar year 2025, but he’s won every single year preceding that. It’s incredible what he did. Uh, and that’s where the the live stuff will be interesting, right? like will you be first ballot hall of famer because you know you kind of went to live golf at the end of your your time. Um will you I mean I think Justin Rose is getting a lot of credit right now for not having gone to live golf, not having taken maybe the easy route. You compare that to a lot of uh other guys in their 40s, Ian Palter, Henrik Stenson, those guys are now facing relegation to keep that conversation going on the live golf tour. And so, uh, there’s a bifurcating of of guys in their 40s that I don’t know if we really expected. Um, and it’s it’s successful for Justin Rose in a way that we we certainly weren’t ready for. Yeah, I think DJ’s an absolute stone cold lock. I I think Adam Scott and Justin Rose, I think being outside of the United States, there’s the wrinkle to the international player, the globalization of the game at the time in which they started to become among the very best in the world. I think Justin Rose, the gold medal is gaining I I think it’s gaining weight in terms of its accomplishment as well. I think Zack Johnson because I look over my shoulder and you go, “Yeah, here too.” and and in an age in which it was about optimization and launch and the advent of just length being the most vital empirical data point and he got to where he got and he won the masters and he won the open here which again that all these studies will be interesting as we go forward. So let’s get to here. When you make the choice to write this book, what did you have a primary goal that you wanted to get out of what the book was intended to be? Well, when I went there, I certainly wasn’t sure that I was going to end up writing a book. It was this kind of distant thing in the in the back of my mind, but I had never done it before. And so, it’s a bit of a daunting task. Um, but I was just turning 30 and I had just had a a feeling of kind of unrest with my life. uh a little unrest with like my relationship life and even like with the sport of golf because there are elements of the sport that I didn’t really love, you know, the the way that like American golf has has gone private in a lot of ways and gone expensive in a lot of ways. You compare that to what you find abroad, find in St. Andrews and in F, uh it’s just a a wholly different world. And so like it felt weird to not really know what that was all about. So that’s really what I went to to Scotland for was like the home of golf, the birthplace of the game. I know what it’s like here in Chicago. I got to go find out what like the roots of it really are. Um and it just felt like I was running into that every single day in Scotland in F. I mean, you can rip up and down the coast from where you currently are, and there are all kinds of courses that no one has ever heard about that treated me and treat the game and treat visitors as if they are blood. And um I think that that’s what I really found when I went searching in St. Andrews is like a collection of people to which golf is one of the most important things and they don’t hold it in a privatized way and they don’t keep it from you. No, they actually force it upon you and they want to share it with you. That’s kind of I guess the special stuff that that courses through that that entire country. Yeah, I I couldn’t agree more. There’s there’s roughly 17,000 people who live here and that’s a very modest population, but there’s a warmth. There is a welcoming embrace. This is not something where they go, “Oh gosh, it’s just constant encroachment from people around the world just coming to our home.” know there is again wrapping your arms around it. So when you find yourself entrenched here, where did you find yourself going back to? What were the places that meant the most to you that gave you the most joy? Yeah. Uh there’s a little course actually down the coast. Uh it’s a just a nine-hole course. Uh you know, there is the taxi driver that would take me there. His name was Nigel. Uh, I found myself calling up Nigel and establishing a relationship with Nigel. I found myself going for runs to see the people at that point who were camping early in the morning. They were camping outside the Caddy Pavilion just trying to get a tea time. Uh, and you know, people at 60, 70 years old doing that. It’s like you you kind of find the the lifeblood of it all. And it was going to be there on Tuesday morning and then again on Wednesday morning and then Nigel was going to take my call on Thursday afternoon and you get into this uh this repetitive I guess my my normal habits, my St. Andrews habits. I just kind of kept repeating them. There’s little tiny coffee shops where I would pick up scones. There’s a there’s a a shop if you haven’t been there yet. It’s called Gorgeous. Uh they have the best scones in the world in my opinion. but it was on my way walking to the, you know, essentially the first tea. Um, I think it’s just a lot of stuff like that, you know, getting invited to sit inside the windows right there on the 18th hole um from the new club or the old club and just watch people finish. You actually said this earlier. Uh, that’s something so special about the 18th at St. Andrews is every time that I watch people finish that golf hole, they do not take their hat off and shake hands, it is always an embrace. It is always a big bear hug between strangers, between players and caddies who are 40 years older than them that grew up in a different country. Like there is a like a true joy and like love kind of coursing through it. um that Sanders just literally they flipped the lights off last night and they flipped them on again this morning and that’s what you’re going to see happening behind you. That just doesn’t happen everywhere. Uh and it doesn’t happen many places at all. So, uh that’s the kind of stuff that I found myself going toward every day. So, you know, you you were like you said approaching 30. So, you have this own little kind of turbulence in your biological time frame of mile marker 30. You’re looking at the game. You wonder where it’s going. that not only the professional game but kind of where’s the industry going. What did you learn about yourself when it was all said and done and the book was finished and you left here? Yeah. Well, it’s it’s so funny because once my flight left JFK and was flying to Edinburgh, like within 30 minutes, I received the first field list for the first event of Live Golf. And so that’s where the professional game was going. It is it was chasing money. It was frankly like a bit selfish and greedy and like we’ve we could do 10 different shows about that. But what I really needed to find out um was kind of tapping back into more of my social side. And um that may sound like super Shaun based um but I think it’s kind of exists for a lot of people who play this game is that you ask me if I’m playing golf by myself which I did a lot of that year you know someone plays up behind me or I play up on the group ahead of me and I didn’t want really anything to do with strangers in that moment. This was coming out of COVID and the pandemic and there was a lot of just like kind of pushing your arms out at people that were kind of coming around you and I found that uh I just adore the people that golf puts in front of you and golf presents people to you all the time. You know, it’s one of the brilliant things about the queue in at the old course is that you’re not going to get a foresome with your buddies just by getting lucky in the queue. No, you’re actually probably going to play with a bunch of singles. And so you will automatically have three new friends and five if you count your caddy. And like the people that golf puts in front of you are kind of I think what ultimately proved to me, no, I want to stay in the sport. I want to continue covering it. There are millions of these people that the sport will just plant in front of you and say, Sean, you want to do something weird today? Let’s go get wild and see what the old course has entail for us. There is there’s one ele element uh one chapter of the book that just dives into a few of these people and you know we ended up playing uh a dark time which is teeing off at around 6 p.m. local and I met people on the first tea one of these guys name his name was Rich Holiday and he’s in a walking boot a hospital boot and he’s like playing golf he had broken his foot six weeks prior but he loves St. Andrew, he loves F. And for like 16 holes, he was kicking my butt that day. And I was like, “This guy makes no sense. He’s talking about himself in the third person, you know? He’s taking sips of whiskey. He’s smoking cigarettes and he’s in a hospital boot and he’s whooping my butt.” And I was like, “This is what golf does to you. It puts people like Rich Holiday in front of you and says, “Hey man, you’ve got an experience today and there’ll be a different one next week.” I always appreciate the conversation. Thank you for sharing your affection for this place. Thanks for writing the book. I look forward to seeing you and talking with you real soon. Thank you. Thank you, Gary. Have fun over there. Thank you, Sean Zack, Golf Magazinegolf.com, and of course his book, Searching in St. Andrews about his time spending a summer here in 2022 when we continue a golfer’s life. Cole Hammer, our contributor on the corn fra tour, his thoughts on where he’s been over the summer going out west and his thoughts on something that we talk about in sports all the time, but how can he define it himself? Pressure. Back from the old course here at Rousax Hotel looking over the 18th green in that first TE in the RNA building on Golf Channel and on SiriusXM’s channel 92 PJ Tour radio. Back with Cole right after this. [Music] Welcome back in on this Tuesday. It is time for a pros life. We’re lucky enough to have him joining us periodically throughout the year. And of course, this segment brought to you by Peter Mar appropriately. So, he represents the brand. I know proudly just like I do. And I’m speaking of Cole Hammer on the corn ferry tour. He is in Boise, Idaho. It is 1:38 local time here in St. Andrew, Scotland. It’s 6:38 where he is in the morning as he gets ready for another week of competitive golf. My friend, good morning. Good to see you. How you feeling? Good morning. I guess golf doesn’t sleep. It’s being played all across the world at any time of the day. It it is. You and I were talking during the break. For somebody who has devoted his his young life, of which you’re still a very young man, to golf, and I know that you just don’t love competitive golf. You love golf. You love being with your dad on a golf course and with your friends. Oddly enough, you’ve yet to come here, not just to St. Andrews. You have not been to Scotland. You’ve played competitive events, played a Walker Cup in England, played a World Team event, I believe, in Ireland, but you’ve never been to this country, right? Never. And it’s uh as a golfer, it’s almost sacrilegious to have never been to Scotland. But I’m young in my career still. And uh I have time to to go on a buddies trip or a father-son trip at some point. My dad and I always threatened to go u when I was growing up, starting to get into the game. And for whatever reason, it never materialized just with uh golf schedule and work schedule, but um it’s always uh been at the top of my bucket list. So, I’m very jealous of your backdrop right now. It’s uh it’s it’s an amazing place. It’ll get to you because I know how you are like it like it got to me the first time and always does the same way. It gets into your bones and fills you up in the best way. um for you right now. You and I don’t talk a lot about results, but I do want to ask you, you know, your rounds, 12 of your last 16 rounds have been sub 70 rounds. Give me a sense right here. It’s the middle of August. What’s working and maybe what isn’t working well enough? Yeah, you know, it’s been a pretty solid stretch of golf over the last month or so. Um, I made I’ve made the last four cuts and so that’s been I guess 16 competitive rounds of golf in a row. And um, I think this is the first time that I’ve made four cuts in a row during the summer. So, it’s been um, kind of a test of endurance in a way. And um, so I think that might be what I’ve been struggling with the most. Um, maybe getting a little bit tired on the weekend. I seem to have my best rounds on uh you know Thursday and and and Saturday for some reason and then um but I have been finishing up on Friday very well. I’ve made two cuts twice on the number and um so that’s been encouraging to kind of get it done um down the stretch uh to be able to at least give myself a chance on the weekend. Um, I’ve been hitting my irons very, very well and I think that’s, um, made rounds a little bit more stress-free. Earlier in the season, I was not hitting very many greens in regulation. In the last few events, I’ve been, you know, kind of near the top of the field in terms of, uh, that stat. So, um, it’s been a fun stretch and hopefully I can continue that this week. I I asked you last night, I texted you and I said, “One of the things I want to ask you about is pressure.” And he said, ‘Oh, good grief. Uh, this could take a while to explain to So, explain it to me. What What is pressure to you? If I asked you to define either how you feel it, how it manifests itself, when it does, what is pressure to you? Yeah. Uh, I’ve been thinking about that a lot and the best way that I can describe it is I think there are two different kinds of pressure. I think there’s pressure in the moment, which can be fun, like coming down the stretch to try to I mean, I guess make trying to make a cut’s never fun, but being in the moment, having those feelings is kind of what you work for and play for. And then there’s pressure off the course um while you’re thinking about how you’re going to perform on the course. And that comes from expectations from um myself and from other people. And that’s something that, you know, I I’ve had to wrestle with in the past. And I do my best to uh separate that from when I’m on the golf course. And um try not to let expectations drive the way that uh I go about my daily life. So, I think if you let expectations kind of drive um the way that you feel, I think that pressure is almost always uh top of mind and and part of um kind of the the fabric of the way that you think about golf. And that can that can wear you out. And so, I’ve had to do my best to kind of compartmentalize that. And and then when I’m on the golf course, it’s almost like, okay, um I’ve done the work and as long as I’m prepared, uh as long as I have prepared the way I know I need to prepare, then uh there’s nothing else that I can do. And then it’s exciting to see how I’m going to perform in the moment. And um if it doesn’t work out that day or if I don’t make that cut or or make that putt to uh to finish the way I wanted to in an event um then I kind of just get up and and try to do it again the next day. So it’s it’s a never- ending cycle and I think everyone deals with pressure differently. Um, but uh I try to to view it as a as a privilege in a way and um just realize that uh I’m going to do everything I can and uh try to let God take care of the rest and see where that puts me at the end of the day. You um you have fallen in love with traveling. Um and I’d like to think that that would help you with this aspect of what you do and that is leaving golf where golf is played. Have you gotten better at that in terms of when it’s over, it’s over? And then wallowing in it or or even the idea of basking in a in a great day and that’s nice and everything, but are you better at leaving golf where golf is? There’s no question about it. I uh and part of it is spending time uh with friends and and family uh off the golf course um immediat immediately after um I leave the course. So uh you know, let’s say I finish a tournament round um and it doesn’t go the way I want to. Uh you know, I might need 10 or 15 minutes to to reset. And obviously I’m not too happy in the moment, but then uh you know, if I come home and I’m with uh guys that I’m staying with that week or uh you know, my girlfriend’s in town, I I do my best to um leave the the bad golf or even the good golf at the golf course. Uh because I think that’s really important. Uh because, you know, golf’s what I do. It’s not it’s not who I am. And I don’t want uh you know a bogey or a birdie to determine how I’m um how I’m feeling or behaving uh off the golf course. And there there is a fine line there because some of the best epiphies in golf happen when you’re off the golf course and and reading something or or studying or just purely thinking. U but when I’m around other people, I try to uh try to forget about uh the happenings on the golf course. I want to ask you about Scotty Sheffller because he’s a Dallas guy, you’re a Houston guy, but but Texas golf talent level, history, it runs really, really deep. And you both go to the same school. What was his reputation? Because he preceded you uh in terms of where he was in his in his own journey and also at the university. What was his reputation like before he went to school and then throughout that time as you’re getting ready to go there? Well, it’s it’s funny. I mean, Texas golf has had such a great lineage of players over the years. Um, and I guess in the modern modern day, it started with speed in in 2011 and 12. Um, and then kind of morphed into Bo Hustler right after that. And uh I’ll never forget Bo and Scotty wearing uh Texas script hats uh in uh the US Open for Bo uh at like oh gosh I can’t remember maybe it was Olympic and then Scotty uh yeah Olympic where the USM is this week. So that’s pretty funny pretty ironic but uh and then Scotty at the US Jr. And I remember going on an official visit to or unofficial visit to Texas and immediately buying one of one of those hats in the pro shop because I felt like, you know, okay, if Bo and Scotty are wearing these wearing these hats and want to be a part of the Texas golf program, then maybe that’s something that I want to do as well. And um I’m very lucky that I’ve been able to that I was able to follow in in in Scotty’s footsteps at Texas. um he obviously um was kind of the next big thing out of the the state behind Jordan and he has become what he’s become and it’s been super exciting and and fun to watch uh him develop and turn into the the golfer and the person that he is and he’s been so great to to me and all the younger guys uh who have passed through Texas Golf. Um, and I think it’s just a a testament to the the kind of the guy that he is. uh he cares about other people and uh obviously he works really really hard and so that’s inspirational to all of us and um you know there lots of Scotty Shuffler stories from college golf and and uh you know they’re uh there they’re stories to look up to and um Scotty’s been like I said just such an inspiration to all of us. Uh you mentioned the US amer last thing. Um there are things about every spot in the journey that that matter to you. You won the western amter which is one of the great gauntlets to get to the end. Uh you shot 61 I think 23 under in stroke play. All of your matches went the distance. You went extra holes. You beat Davis Riley in the final. That’s an enormous accomplishment. What do you miss about amateur golf as the US am going on right now? funny you bring that up. We were in Chicago uh a couple of weeks ago and I stayed at the same hotel that I stayed at when I won the Western and I drove by Sunset Ridge, the golf course where we played it um every single day and uh you know, I tried to take a deep breath as I drove by the course on the way to the Cornferry course in hopes of channeling some of that good mojo. Um, and I play I played solid in Chicago. But anyways, that was a fun experience and it it definitely uh made me reminisce on my time as an amateur. I will cherish that forever. Uh, I was lucky to be exposed to amateur golf so early. Um, having qualified for a US Open um, when I was young, I was able to play in basically some of the biggest amateur events um, when I was 16 years old and all the way through the end of college. So, I had quite a long amateur career. Uh, and there’s nothing better than amateur golf in the summer. It was so exciting. We got to go to some of the the neatest golf courses um, around the country. Uh, and amateur golf is is quite a bit different than professional golf because, um, you look forward to one or two big tournaments every single year and that’s kind of all you had. So, you had, you know, the Western AM and the US Amateur and, uh, those were our majors, uh, per se. And then you had always had something to work towards, you know, in the Walker Cup or in college golf it was the Palmer Cup. And um it was just a very raw pure type of golf and and and motivation. And uh I’ll miss it. I uh made a lot of great friends in the golf world uh through amateur golf. And um it seems like a lot of the elder statesmen in the game appreciate amateur golf just as much as they do professional golf. And uh no question. So I’ve been very very lucky in that regard. and I’ll I’ll never um take for granted my time in the amateur world. I miss it. Well, listen, it’s great to see your face. Great to catch up. Have a good week this week and and I look forward to our next catchup. Thank you, my friend. Yeah, looking forward to it. Thanks, Carrie. Have fun as Schol. Okay, there is Cole Hammer of Pros Life. We come back. Final thoughts here from St. Andrews on a Tuesday right after this. [Music] Welcome back in final minutes here on this Tuesday. This segment brought to you by Piner, the cradle of American golf. It endures similar to St. Andrews. When you go to the Sand Hills of North Carolina, you’re immersed in in the game of golf. You’re there with the express purpose of of taking it all in. And that’s why we’re so proud to be aligned with the cradle of American golf piners. I’m watching you can kind of see them over my shoulder and it honestly every group it gets to me uh in terms of the way they embrace each other. Two sons, two fathers. Great way for us to go off the air on this Tuesday as they finish their round just before 2:00 local time. I bet you they may walk up the street to the Dunvegan. Uh I don’t know if those boys are old enough to have a pint. Uh my wife is shaking her head no. Uh who knows? But the point is just to see uh what this place is tomorrow back here uh from the balcony of room 116 at the New Sachs Hotel and I will be joined by Brettley Romine of Golf Channel.com who covers the amateur game expertly. He’s going to be waking up early in San Francisco. We hope we have the bracket for the 64. You look at it. We had Jackson Corbin who we had on the program last week. He shot 68. Good start for him again. final day of stroke play qualifying to get to that field of 64 for the US amer. And we will also be joined by Kevin Kisner, lead analyst for golf on NBC, his thoughts about what we saw last week. We look ahead to K’s Valley and also his thoughts on this place as well. For all of us here at Five Clubs, we thank the great folks and staff at Rousac. We’re back tomorrow on a Wednesday. See you then.
1 Comment
Gary, that better not be your wife that you were trying to run off that balcony! Lol