Lucas Glover sits down with Tony Ruggiero to talk about his golf swing and history with golf instruction. They share what they’ve been working on and the few simple fundamentals you should be focusing on (but most golfers forget).
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[Music] Hi, this is Tony Rogerro, the doo sweeer. You’re about to listen to an episode of the tour coach, which is going to give you an inside look at coaching golf at the very highest level from on the PGA tour with my guys all the way to here at Mobile, Alabama in the Doucheer Dome as we help folks of all skill levels, all walks of life learn to achieve their golfing goals. [Music] So, this edition of the coach is an interview that I did with one of my players, Lucas Glover, who’s had tremendous successes in his career. He’s a major winner. Won the US Open in 2009. I’ve worked with Lucas for two and a half years, a little over two and a half years or so. We’ve worked really hard. And I think you’ll hear when you listen to this that uh one of the cool things or one of the things I enjoy about what I do is the guys that I work with truly become I mean they become some of my best friends and closest friends. We travel together so much. We spend so much time together. They become like family and we share all the ups and all the downs together. And over the past 2 and 1/2 years, you know, we’ve seen a nice resurgence in Lucas’s game. There’s certainly been some bright spots and there’s certainly been some times we didn’t play as good as we would like, but I think we have a good clear picture of where we’re going. And I think, you know, Lucas has been refreshing. It’s been fun to involve him with the nurturing and the coaching and the help for my younger players that are making their way from mini tour golf to web.com tour golf to the PGA Tour as rookies and be able to have somebody that’s had success and that has seen all sides of that from winning a major to going back to web finals to you know winning two other tour events to having four top 10 in uh nine events this year playing great golf. So, it’s a great outlook and uh I truly value his perspective and his friendship and I think that uh of the ones that we’ve we’ve recorded so far, I think this is some really cool stuff because uh just like I value the relationships and the friendships of the guys that I coach and teach and I try to learn from each one of them and I probably learn way more from them than they do from me. had the opportunity to do something which I’ve done at times but did more so here which was pick his brain about his first golf coach Dick Harmon and there’s no doubt you can hear the love the affection the respect and the care that he had for Dick and obviously Dick passed away and but it’s cool to listen to him talk about Dick and the effect that he had on his golf career and his life and his development and you know it reminds me of of why I do the things I do and I hope that at some point. Somebody speaks of me, a student speaks of me as fondly as he speaks of Dick. And and you can see the emotion and you can see the care and I and that’s why we do what we do or why I do what I do. So, I think you’ll enjoy this edition of the coach as I sat down players week on a Tuesday night in a hotel room and after dinner and I had a couple glasses of wine and we sat down and taped this podcast with Lucas Glover, your 2009 US Open winner and uh having a resurgence this year playing some fantastic golf and I’m excited about the work he’s done, excited about the things that I’m learning from him and that we’re doing together and the things he’s been able to show my my younger players as Well, so now Lucas Glover. Also, we’re doing an awesome giveaway to kick off the podcast. You’re going to get the chance to win a new Shrixon driver. If you were lucky enough to hang out and play with me, you’d see that I’ve got this new sucker in the bag. I’ve got a 95 785 Shrix driver with a hazardous shaft. It is amazing. It all of the numbers. It was Shrixign for years, but this is the first driver I ever remember from Shrix or Cleveland Golf that when we put it on the Trackman or on the quad that the numbers against every other leading driver out there are better than any of the competition. It’s unbelievable. And I just I love it. Couldn’t speak more highly of it. We fit lots of good young players, lots of good amateur players. Put them in. You know, I always tell people, I’m going to put you in what you play the best because that’s how I get paid, whether you’re a professional player or whether you’re a junior player. I mean, you playing well is how I get my notoriety, how I generate my revenue and and how I’ve built my reputation. And I wouldn’t put a Shrix on driver in somebody’s bag if it wasn’t the best. And we’re putting a lot of them in folks bags. So, go ahead and uh enter for a chance to win this driver. Here’s how you do it. You subscribe to the podcast and the Apple podcast. You listen to the show, leave a review of the show, screenshot your review, and then email that screenshot to heygolfciencelab.com. That’s heygolfsciencelab.com. And if you want special bonus entries, share out on social media you’re listening and we’ll increase your chance of winning. Don’t miss out on this as you only have our first 3 weeks to enter and win this. It’s a great chance to get a great driver. Plus, I think you’re going to love the stuff that Cordy and I have put together for you coming out that’s going to give you an inside the world of golf look at what it’s like to be a coach at the highest level with PGA Tour players as well as developing junior players what it’s like on the road as well as here in the dome in Mobile, Alabama. So, don’t miss this opportunity for the first three weeks to win the brand new Shrix 785 driver. All right, let’s get to this episode. [Music] So sitting here players championship Lucas Glover as Breen would say he’s my best player. Got to throw that in for Breen. But anyways, worked together a little over two and a half years. So, what I wanted to talk with you about was one of the things that you’ve told me a bunch of stories about, which I’ve been kind of intrigued is about your early teaching, your early education in golf, about how your grandfather and you work with Dick Harmon. I think that’s a good story. Yeah. No. Yeah. Growing up, my grandfather taught me until I was uh 9 or 10. And I think he realized that uh he was kind of at the end of his expertise and I was a little past where what he could help me with or or not help me with. And uh so we bounced around town Greenville, South Carolina, worked with a few different club pros there. Uh Wayne Meyers and and Mike Callum, two great guys. And it got to the point where it was I was about 12 and my grandfather said, “I think I think we need to go see somebody uh that could potentially really take you to the next level.” Which was you about 12, 13? Yeah, I was 12. I remember I remember definitely being 12 and pretty good forethought by my grandfather. And uh we were fortunate to have a a good sounding board in town, Jay Hos. And my grandfather went to Jay and goes, “I got my grandson Lucas who who you you know and seen around the course and this that and the other and can you give me some advice? Who do I take him to if I want him to to really get better?” And at the time the two best teachers on tour were David Lebet and uh and and Dick Harmon. And so Jay advised my grandfather to take me to both and see what fit and see what we liked and didn’t like and critique and this and that. And so we we got in with with with Dick first and uh and just fell in love with him and fell in love with how he treated me and how he taught and his patience. And you got to have patience for a 12-year-old kid cuz you got about 22 seconds of attention. And uh and it nothing nothing against uh against David Leb better. I saw David last week at Bay Hill and had a chat and he was great as always, but we never we never even never even got a chance to see David. We just fell in love with with Dick and and the staff at River Oaks and and how he how he took care of us and and skeptical at all about a 12-year-old coming to see him. I don’t think so cuz I think similar to what what you do at the country club of Mobile is a solid junior program and and at the time Dick was at River Oaks in Houston and huge junior program that that that he ran and took care of and and I think I think the glue at first was his relationship with my grandfather and I I think my grandfather really reminded Dick of of his father old school just bluecollar and kind made made themsself and the relationship those two had and the mutual respect those two had I think really set the relationship in stone and um my grandfather until until I was through college every time I’d go to Houston to see Dick he would go with me and those two were they were thick as thieves and telling stories and and Dick Harmon could get my grandfather who was also named Dick he could get him talking about stuff from from his athletic days at Clemson and with the Steelers and and that some stories that I’d never heard and and Dick Harmon had this way of of drawing those things out of of my grandfather, Dick Henley. And so it was eye opening for me too and really cool to actually hear my grandfather who was a very private person with his past talk about his life in in sport and business. And and I remember Dick Harmon, he would anybody that he introduced my grandfather to at River Oaks, he would say, “No, Mr. Henley, tell tell them your story. Tell them how you got started.” And and uh and my grandfather was sheepish at first, but but he did he got his start in his business cleaning toilets around textile mills around Greenville, South Carolina. And and uh for the ease of the conversation, I’ll call him Mr. Henley and Mr. Harmon. Mr. Harmon thought that was the the coolest thing. just this self-made man from from the south. And and uh that relationship that they fostered really made me appreciate what I had with both of them because it was uh it was like two father grandfather figures for my golf and for my life. Not taking away from anything from from my father, but uh just seeing that was was was awesome. and the mutual respect they had. And at the end of the day, their their biggest goal was to make me better and instill a certain work ethic in me. And looking back on it now, 14 years after after Dick Harmon passed, I think he did all that to make me understand how hard my grandfather worked. And even though he was a hard worker with his athletics, when that went away, his work ethic and his drive to be a great businessman, which he ended up being, I think looking back on it, as I’ve matured, it was his way of making me understand that no matter what walk of life you choose, you got to work hard at. And that was really that was really cool for me to hear and more interesting now as I’ve gotten older to understand that people are driven by certain things and for certain things. And I really do think that was his way of getting me to understand what it took to succeed. So I’ve been, as you know, I’m telling you stuff you already know, but been out to see Butch hang out for a couple days. Mhm. And uh obviously been around you a lot over a few years. And it’s interesting when I when I listened to you talk about Dick and then when I was out there and I spent a couple days with Butch just hanging out and you got him talking about Dick. You could tell obviously but there’s lots of brothers. Mhm. But brothers don’t always feel that way or talk that way about you know for sure. I mean, and you could tell there was a special I mean, in fact, he said the Lord took the wrong Harmon. That’s exactly what So, what what was so special about Dick as a teacher for you? I mean, obviously, the work ethic and from a my perspective as a teacher, there isn’t anybody I’ve been around that works harder than you. And I mean, that’s just how you are. I mean, it’s it’s inbred. Yeah. Well, yeah, it is. And you know, I’m I’m 39, 40 this year and and and grew up still in that kind of tough love generation because of parents, grandparents, that’s all they knew. And if you’re not if you’re not outworking everybody, you’re you’re falling behind this, that, and the other. But Dick Harmon was special with his way of relating things and the way he could relate to me dealing with golf instructors and players. It’s always hard to tell someone how it should feel because it’s not your hands, it’s not your golf club, it’s not your body, it’s not your brain. He had this innate ability to relate emotion to how it should feel to me, which is a very difficult thing to do. Maybe a little simpler for him as a good player growing up and even into into older age. He was still a great player and could could pretty much hit it every shot and still to this day the best bunker player I’ve ever seen. But this innate ability to to say how something should feel to me, which is which is a talent I don’t think everybody has. And I I would do my work with him and then he’d have other juniors come in or other members of the club or whatever. And I would just, you know, sit and rest or listen and whatnot and he could do it with them, too. And so it was just one of those he was a special talent as a as a golf teacher and as a as a golf instructor. He could he could explain to somebody how it should feel, which is which is very weird. And it’ll even sound weirder now cuz a lot of the things that we use now is complete science and it basically tells us how it should feel. He could do that from watching one or two videos and then express it in a way that you could say, “Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, all right.” And there was never any searching like, “Well, maybe this way or that way is right.” It was always, well, all right, we’re trying to knock some curve off of this, so let’s let’s, you know, maybe feel like the hands stay a little lower at impact and it might not hook as much. And it was, you know, you don’t think about those things until later. And now I hear people all the time giving that lesson on the driving range on tour. And this was, you know, 20 years ago, third, 25 years ago. And and without Trackman and without the super duper cameras. I mean, he was into the technology and into the Tell about that. That’s pretty cuz you’ve told me about him having all the technology. No, he he was. But you don’t think of the Harmons having a ton of technology. Well, they didn’t they didn’t need it, but Dick was the one that always learned how to work everything first, you know. He he had an he had a MP3 player before most teenagers did. And he knew how to get songs on there and knew how to load them and loved gadgets and loved technology. And um you know, I remember Butch calling him saying, “Hey, you know, this super software we all got on these computers, I don’t even understand it.” And and Dick Dick had the knowhow to to uh to work it all. And he he took the time to understand it and learn it. And I think it was probably cuz he didn’t sleep well and he sat up from, you know, 4:00 in the morning to 7 and figured all this stuff out. But um yeah, he was definitely a gadget guy. But yeah, he had the he was one of the first people I knew that had the the teaching center with the hidden bay and the cameras and and all that, but didn’t need it. He used it as a as an asset cuz it helped him and in turn helped his students and me. But yeah, he had uh he had every gadget when it first came out and knew how to work it all. And that was pretty cool. And you know, he would, if he was with us today, he’d he’d have all the iPads and and iPhones and the gadgets and the wireless headphones and teaching all the kids how to use them. Trackman. No, he’d be all over that. He’d be all over that. And he would he wouldn’t have to have it, but he’d know how to use it, right? And learn how to use it and because it could better him as an instructor and and in turn better his his members or better his tour players or better his juniors or or what have you. So, um, that was always cool to see cuz every time I went out to see him in Houston, he’d always have something new to show me, whether it was for golf or playing music or, you know, some crazy new wine opener or whatever it could be. He he he had it all and knew how to use it. And, uh, yeah, that was uh, that was always interesting to me cuz my grandfather, all he knew how to use was the remote to get the Braves on. So, so your grandfather wasn’t very inclined with technology? No, I remember I remember a few years before uh a few years before he passed trying to teach him how to work the pgatour.com so he could follow him arounds and my father’s a pretty uh pretty savvy guy on the computer and I think between us we spent about 4 hours with him and we could get him to the tour app so he could follow me but he couldn’t Google anything. So uh yeah it was just uh you know that that age and that uh that time of life he just he didn’t care. All he wanted to do was watch uh watch shot link and if he wanted to know something he’d he’d look it up the encyclopedia. He didn’t care about Google. So obviously, so Dick Dick obviously unfortunately passed and but you had you had success for sure after yeah working with Mike Taylor won a US Open lots of success and then I mean you obviously had a period of time where you didn’t and and so you know one of the things that we’ve done whatever two and a half years ago or so we started working and hanging out. I mean, I think it a lot of it’s hanging out, too. But is to me, one of the things I liked was hearing those old stories about Dick because I try I wanted to get you back to doing the stuff you used to do when you were young. And I mean, I think that’s one been one of the cool things is like, you know, how much I enjoy those stories as much as the time we stand or walking on the golf course. And to me, I feel like we’re getting you back to doing a lot of the things you used to do. Maybe not said the same way. Sure. Obviously, I’m not Dick Harmon, and I never claimed to be, but like we’re trying to get you back to do a lot of the things you used to do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, first lesson we had was all about setup, you know, couple years back. And and aim. Yeah. Well, set up and aim. And, you know, I was wondering why I couldn’t hit the shot I saw. And you said, “Well, cuz you’re aiming way over there and trying to start it way on the other side and expecting this and it’s not going to happen.” And I went, “Oh, oh, that’s important.” Oh, yeah. That’s right. But, uh, and that was always the that was always a big thing with with Dick when we when we started with a lesson was check the aim, check the ball position, and check the grip. And it’s still, no matter how good you are or a beginner or trying to improve or trying to break a 100 for the first time, that’s really all it comes down to. setup, alignment, and your grip. And after that, you know, Trackman can say whatever. But if those three things aren’t pretty good or consistent, Trackman’s going to say bad stuff. Mhm. And so that’s that’s one of the things I’ve liked so much about what we’ve done is it’s been very very very basic for 2017, 18, and 19. And I’m not saying that as a negative. It’s a big positive for me because if I’m looking up and pointed where I’m supposed to be pointed, ball’s in the right spot in my stance and my grip’s where it needs to be, then all I got to do is do what I’ve trained my whole life to do, which is take the club back, rotate through it, and hit a draw. Mhm. And that’s all we want to do. And, you know, we can hit the other shots when we have to. But your bread and butter is your bread and butter. And I got away from that a little bit trying to be too perfect with my down swing and this that and the other. And we’ve done great things with that. But it all starts on the ground. And that that that meaning where your feet are pointed, where the club face is pointed, and where the ball is in your stance. [Music] Hey, I hope you’re enjoying this episode so far. If you’re looking to see more of a visual side of this podcast, videos of me working with players, there’s tips, strategies, all that good stuff that you’d like for an inside the ropes, behindthe-scenes look at life on the PGA Tour or teaching and developing some of the best players around the country. Head over to golfciencelab.com/tonony and check out the content there. There’s tons of good stuff out there. There’s more good stuff coming, but uh hopefully you enjoy it. So people like always ask like you know heck you had gas man Ron Jordan down to play golf with you right and you know he comes back and he’s he’s you know from the country club and he’s like what do you work on with Lucas and and this was about the time where we strengthen your grip or you sent me you said hey go look up what was it 2009 you go look up 2009 and then pull up your last video and I pulled them up and was actually one of the first times I guessed right on the first Right. But like you know most but like when I told Gas man that they were astonished that a guy that plays the tour one we’re focusing on grip. Mhm. And I think that like I don’t think people get like how much we focus on and pay attention to those details that are the things you can control before you ever start moving and the ball goes. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. what, three weeks ago, I felt like I was making some really good swings at it and the ball was kind of going up and hanging right. And I started thinking, “All right, these are solid. I know I’m aimed right. I know my ball position’s good. Why isn’t this thing turning over?” And I before I asked you that, I went back and looked at a a picture myself. And to make sure I wasn’t crazy, I asked you to do the same thing. and you said, “Yeah, your your left hand’s a little weaker now than it was, you know, 10 years ago, eight years ago, and when you when your bread and butter was a tight draw.” And so, we strengthened it a little bit. Just a little bit. Not a lot. No, just a, you know, one knuckle over. And um Yeah. No, it’s interesting. Like, I mean, here we are, what, Tuesday night, players championship, and all day today, you and I were together from 7:30 to to noon today working. And it was alignment cuz last week I felt like some of my T- shots were even though I had a great week, I felt like some of my T-shots were a little wipey. And for me that comes from aiming a little too far right and having to try to pull it online. And uh I wipe them just because of that. That’s what happens when I aim right anyway. Uh everybody’s a little different. But we spent we spent the majority of the day working on our alignment. And that’s okay with me because I know if I get lined up correctly that, you know, I’m 39, my golf swing ain’t going to change that much anymore. Yeah. And if I’m lined up well, I can do what I’m supposed to do and hit the shot I’m supposed to hit. But the basics are still the basics and alignment, ball position, grip. That’s what we all go back to. I don’t care how many guys have Trackman behind them and reading those numbers. If those three things aren’t where they need to be, it doesn’t matter. And that’s what I like so much about what we’ve done and what’s been so refreshing is it’s been very basic and literally from the ground up, from where my feet are pointing and where the ball is on the ground in my stance. And then this is the first time we’ve actually had to fiddle with my grip any. But I mean, those three basics are are the basis of good golf. And for a lot of people, the basis of great golf. I mean, we’re we’ve all hit so many balls and practiced so much to get where we are, it’s not going to change that much. But if those one or two or all three of those things are off, you know, you’re fighting an uphill battle cuz you’re going to have to make goofy changes in your swing to accommodate for poorly aligned shot or a ball too far up or back in your stance or a bad grip. Well, we’ve talked obviously, you know, you get aimed right and you know, you could put you on all those 3D things and it would show you that if you’re aimed right, your sequence out of the top isn’t correct, right? And people say that stuff, but when we aim you correctly, you do it without us having you having to think about that. And I think that’s the I think that’s kind of the art of teaching. That’s the art of work. you’re a unique player because you’re such a great athlete and you’ve hit a lot of balls and you’ve played great golf, but like I mean I can say to you, hey, the hips’s got to go first or they got to go a little faster, but like it it doesn’t, you know, got guys that it’s gets more complicated than that, but like it doesn’t get more technical than that. It really doesn’t. No. And I’m I’m fortunate in that regard because if I look up and my feet if I if my feet are pointed in the right direction and I look up and I and I’m parallel to my target or parallel to the club face with my feet or whatever and it’s at the target, I can for the most part swing as hard as I want and I know one way it’s not going and that’s left. And oddly enough, silly game of opposites, the further I aim left, the less likely I am to hit it left because then I can rotate through it and my body releases the club instead of my hands, which is a very, very, very free feeling on the golf course to aim it down the left side and start it down the right side and hit draws. And that was one going, you know, going back to what we talked about earlier, that was one of the things that that Dick Harmon was big on. Let’s take one side of the golf course out of play. Mhm. And to do that, we, you know, we aim it down the left center or we aim it in the left center of the green and and we, you know, we rotate through it and let our body rotate the club, not our hands. And the left side of the golf course is basically out of play. Mhm. And you know, I remember watching David Duval at the height of his his career and he was a fader whereas I’m a drawer, but I remember Dick Harmon in the locker room uh at Redstone when he was there. We were watching it and we watched it for two or three days in a row for an hour or so over lunch. And David never ever ever missed a shot left. And that was because of his rotation and because of his aim and because he knew he could go as hard as he could. And a little bit wasn’t a little bit of it was he’s a little shut at the top and he had to rotate so fast but he knew he could aim as far left as he wanted and it was never going over there. It’s a great lesson for anybody coming up trying to be good is to figure out what they have to do whether they’re shut or whatever. Eliminate one side. Yeah. Yeah. And if you eliminate one miss, you know, a two-way miss is the scariest thing in the war for a pro. But if you know for sure it’s not going one way or the other, you can on your off days or your average days, you can account for it and and get it around. It’s that scary two-way one when your alignment gets off and then your body gets off and you got it coming out of both barrels, as we like to say. But um but but you know going back to what we’ve worked on and what I’ve worked on since I was 12, if if if my alignment’s good and and not necessarily open, but at the target or even a fraction left of it, I can go as hard as I want and it’s going to start right at the target. The left side of the golf course is gone and which is which is a good feeling. I think I’m somewhere in the 70 to 75% right right rough miss so far this season which is which is a comforting thing for me when we started your misses were pulls yes right and and that was the big deal I remember when you stood on the tea down there at bay point and you said hey I don’t I mean I just I’m tired of hitting pulls or tired of missing it left right and then you know and we put the rope out and got you aimed and I remember how you looked like You were like, “Shit, this is this is square.” Yeah. Yeah. I was hitting balls in the water on the range. Literally, there’s a creek down the right side of Bay Point from the back of the range and you told me I was aimed in the middle of the range and I felt like I was 40 yards right. Reality was I was actually correct. But, uh, no, you can’t you can’t overstate it enough. I mean, you see you go up and down the range here this week at players championship or in a month at Augusta or or wherever you are and pretty much every tour player, especially Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is going to have something on the ground to help them with their alignment. If not, two things on the ground, one for alignment and one for ball position. And that’s that’s virtually to a man. And and everybody knows where their ball position is. you know, yours is back further than a guy that a lot of folks I might teach or whatever, but like you know where it needs to be. Yeah. I mean, I want to hit under under the gun. I want to hit trap draws. Mhm. Trap push draws. And for me, I’m probably a ball ball and a half back than the average guy that hits a straight shot or a fade or a or a high draw. But, um, but I know that and that’s just me. And that’s the other great thing about golf is everybody’s different. And that’s the other thing, great thing about great instructors is they understand that everybody’s different. Everybody’s got a different body type. Everybody’s got different different makeup. Everybody’s flexible in different spots. Everybody’s just different. And that’s the coolest thing about our game. But also the most challenging thing for an instructor and you know what you guys do with with members to tour players coming in and out of your teaching facilities or in and out of your spot on the range on tour is you got to refocus. All right. What’s this guy’s strengths? What’s this guy’s weaknesses? Where is he flexible? Is he tall? Is he short? Where’s his ball pos? I mean, all that stuff to me is remarkable what you guys do day in and day out. But it all goes back to the ground and the fundamentals. And the science can’t can’t tell you or teach you that. That’s just working at it and understanding yourself. [Music] It was interesting. a couple weeks ago. It was a Sunday before Honda. So, we weren’t cuz you were going to play Jack’s ProAm and so Sunday and then Luke Guthrie came down cuz he’s going to play. And so, Luke has played on tour, had some success and struggle, but now he’s getting better. And one of the cool things I think is you you’re always willing to pitch in and help my younger guys. And Luke would be a good example of that. I mean, heck, Luke, if that thing starts curving left, I mean, he goes into a tizzy. I mean, he he freaks out. But, you know, you had two guys hitting I mean, you couldn’t have two guys on the range next to each other hitting more opposite shaped shots than you two next to each other, but all three of us were working and trying to help each other. And it was I mean, that to me was a pretty fun day. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, a guy like Luke who has been out here and had some I mean, tremendous success for years and, you know, had fell on some hard times with his ball striking, lost his confidence. and got somebody like you that’s going to be very basic with him and make sure that the fundamentals are right, but we’re hitting, you know, complete two different shot shapes and you got to bounce back and forth and, you know, you know, a challenge for you. But yeah, I I do I have so much fun with with guys like that and you see things I see things different and and we share them. I mean, you showed me the his feet. Yes, for sure. And and like I think that’s kind of cool cuz like you don’t mind like filming something. You snuck in there and filmed it. I saw you doing it. You showed it to me or whatever. And I think that’s a cool thing. I’m not heck I’m not hell I’m not too proud to ask you for advice on something and you’ve done that with Tom Se all these guys that have come through and I think it’s a good I mean you’ve been out there a long time and there’s no reason we shouldn’t share ideas. Well let’s be fair. Se’s easy for me because he hits the same shot as me. But he is pretty easy. Yeah, but um he just wants it to draw. Yeah. But no, Luke was Luke was, you know, he was trying to hit he was trying to hit fades and getting on the outside of his right foot going back and it it it’s hard to stay centered from there and and and really rotate through. when he he was just swaying a little back and forth and you know it’s hard to have a a consistent especially kind of a the down hit he wanted and still have it kind of pinch and cut out there which he does so so beautifully when it’s on and but uh I just I just spotted something that that you weren’t watching and you know it’s it was cool to be able to help him and see the results immediately and he he played great the next day in the in the Monday didn’t didn’t get in but you know what he shoot 400. That’s nothing to nothing nothing nothing to uh nothing to be ashamed of. But and two, it’s cool that that guys listen and you know there’s not everybody does. Not everybody does, but interesting to see the the guys that do and appreciate it and then work on it and but again, you know, for him there it was again right on the ground. Mhm. It’s amazing. Yeah. No, it And and what’s funny is so go back a week last weekend I had Scott Lynn who’s a biomechanist mechanist however you want to say come in and we put him on the swing catalyst that you’ve been on it and we’ve done all that stuff and I purposely didn’t tell him what I’d said to him or what you’d said to him just let him analyze it. First thing he says is he watches he goes well he’s he’s got to stay on the inside of his right foot. He gets on the outside of his right foot. He doesn’t have any leverage to go forward. Right. Which again is like you know we joke about the science stuff but like all that science stuff is the same basic stuff that we’re saying just to me said way we can understand well it just confirms it and I think that’s what’s so refreshing with how you do it and I see this would be how a Dick Harmon would do it or I see this would is how Butch does it is all right I see what I see and I’m going to tell my player whether it’s a member at the club the ladies club champ that’s trying a repeat or a tour player. All right, here’s what I see and now I’m going to put it on the swing catalyst or the Trackman or the Flight Scope or whatever our science is and prove that to make sure I’m teaching the right the right thing, the right way. And I think that’s the right way to go about it. It’s when things get the other way. All right, Trackman says this. How do I go from there? That I think things, for me especially, things get a little scrambled. Um, but the reliability on that stuff is is a little intense for my liking. Some guys, that’s that’s what they do and that’s fine and there’s a heck of a lot of great players that do that. But having somebody or yourself feeling it or seeing it and then confirming it with science is is is how I would do it and how I’d prefer to do it. And cuz we’ve used that stuff a little more than I probably admit. Yeah. To the public. And uh Well, you don’t like to admit that you actually know how to use it. No, that’s true. That’s why I always have Jackson or Eric turn it on. I’m afraid if they know I know how to use it, I actually have to turn it on. So, I grew up learning to teach under people like Dick Harmon, old school guys that didn’t need that stuff. Mhm. And I always think I I walk and I watch folks and I think there’s people that couldn’t help you without having a Trackman or a swing catalyst. And yet the only time we’ve ever used any of that’s been when you come to my building or we brought down to Bears Club one time, but like we never bring that stuff out at a tour event. No, no, no. I don’t want to see that on a Tuesday or Wednesday before an event. I want to do that a week a week prior when when I’m come see you or when you come see me at home and and we can, you know, get down to the nuts and bolts of it. But uh I I just you know I remember you know it seems like our theme has been what what would Dick Harmon say? I just I remember him saying well if it was good enough for Ben Hogan it ought to be good enough for you. And uh you know and and that that I kind of think if it’s good enough Dick Harmon would tell you I’ll just keep my mouth shut and let you do it. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, he said that cuz, you know, the the great swingers of the club and the great players, it’s the consistencies in their swings and in their games are are pretty similar. You know, they aimed correctly a lot for their shot shape and they paid fine attention to that and they worked really hard. You know, there’s there’s not this magic formula. It’s it’s kind of that you work really hard. Well, you master the basics and then you work really hard at it. And um you could probably say that for any sport or any line of work or any business or anything. You you master the basics and then you work really hard at continuing to to have them mastered. And I think that’s the consistency you see on tour. Guys that are fundamentally sound are really really good a lot. And all of our swings are different. I mean, you look at our top five, eight, 10 players in the world right now. I mean, all totally different. All total Well, all totally different. And I’m not sure you’d put more than more than one or two of them up and say this is how you want to swing the club. You wouldn’t wouldn’t teach anybody that. And well, maybe maybe a little bit there parts of them, but you know, just what what you see is talent and what you see is hard work and what you see is fundamentally sound. Cuz if you know Dustin Johnson swings the way he swings, which nobody can teach because nobody’s a as a freak of an athlete as that guy is, but if he’s not lined up well and his ball position isn’t where it needs to be, he’s going to be off. And conversely, Justin Rose, you take him and I would say he’s got the, you know, on paper the purest swing in the game right now. Yes. It’s it’s you know from you put that in a sing swing sequence and buddy you put that in every teaching building in the world right now. Exactly. But same thing if he’s not if he’s not lined up well and his ball positions off he’s not going to hit good shots. Right. But anyway and he has the same rehearsal that he does every time he’s been doing it for a while. Him and right. and he tries to hit that shot and and you know and you were talking about you mentioned DJ like I think that’s one of the beauties of what Butch did. I mean he’s bowed at the top. I mean there probably have been a lot of people who would have screwed him up and tried to change him. Well yeah but what what Butch and Claw did was they said all right man you hit it 340 whenever you want. You’re probably the best combined driver of the ball in history for length and and straight and you know and and Brooks too. And they got it they got it through to DJ that let’s just get your wedge game good. So what’s he do now? 45 minutes every day before he plays or when he’s practicing he hits wedges distance control and trackman. And look at him. I mean, he’s he’s one, two, or three in the world for the last 5 years just because he’s he’s taken his talents and honed in on something that he could really improve and they pinpointed it and he works on it really hard and next thing you know he’s a great wedge player and he’s winning about I don’t know five times a year and crazy talented but he still works on what makes him better and he still has to double check his fundamentals. Even though his golf swing isn’t, he still has sticks down on the ground. I saw him. I saw him out the other day. You know, sticks on the ground or a club on the ground, lining up, and making sure when he looks up, he’s, you know, he’s looking where he wants to look. And that’s that’s to a man out here. And you can’t say it to the to the high handicap public enough. If you want to improve, improve your alignment. Make sure your grip’s good. And and by all means, have golf clubs that uh that fit you. and then take one more club cuz most people don’t know everybody hits it short even tour players. So anyway, and you know and then kind of as we wrap it up like I remember I asked Colby this Kobe and I Colobby Tuier who you work out with we were talking about this and I said you know you got he’s got you he’s got a bunch of the best players in the world coming in that same gym. Mhm. It’s like well you see those and you see a bunch of guys on tour that don’t have the success. What’s the difference? and he said, I mean, how hard they work. Yeah. And I think everybody that gets to a certain level super talented obviously has the game. You guys, I mean, you couldn’t get a tour card without being talented and a good player. Yeah. And now day, I mean, you look at it and I I’ve see it when I’ve gone in Kobe’s gym and you see it too, especially like if you go to Bears Club with you and you just stand on that range and sometimes I’ll sit and I’ll just watch all the guys practicing. Yeah. It’s no secret. Why? I mean, you see guys that have just played really good day or two before and they’re out there grinding and practicing on their short game all day or whatever. Yeah. I mean, there’s no secret why they’re really good. Yeah. No, no, there’s not. You know, there’s there’s guys that like to like to hit a lot of balls and and work out some. There’s guys that don’t like to hit a lot of balls and work out a lot. And, you know, before I started working with KBY, I followed him on social media and the day after JT Justin Thomas won the FedEx Cup, he was in the gym the next day. Impressive. Yeah. You think? Yeah. And Kobe put it on social media as kind of motivation to the rest of his guys. Hey, look y’all. This guy just won the FedEx Cup yesterday and he’s in here today working and that was cool to me. And that that was before I even worked with Colby and I said, “Well, if this guy gets it, this is kind of something I want to be a part of.” But but yeah, you know, I see, you know, Dustin Dustin doesn’t uh he saves himself for for for play weeks. He doesn’t hit a ton of balls, but he’s in the gym every day, right? He’s working at something and Kepco works out a ton. Kepco Brooks works out a ton and he likes and and he likes to play. If he’s going to the golf course, he wants to play. He’ll go up and hit a few hit a few balls of Clawude and and check his stuff out and make sure he’s doing the right stuff. But but if he’s going out there, he’d rather play and but he’s in the gym all the time. And then you got guys that like to do both. And then you got guys that, you know, make sure they’re flexible and and like to practice all day. So, it’s all different, but it’s all work and it’s all, you know, there’s too many there’s too many 21, two, and three year olds that can really play now that can still practice a whole lot and not hurt themselves like my old ass. But, um, yeah, there’s the formula is still the same. Your fundamentals got to be good and you got to work and you know, which goes back to where we started. Yeah. Well, yeah. Which goes back to that and what Dick said. Good enough for Hogan’s, good enough for about anybody. Good fundamentals and hard work. You know, secrets in the dirt and it’s not really a secret. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Tour Coach with Tony Rouiro. If you enjoyed this, make sure to hit subscribe, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you are listening to this podcast. You can stay up to date cuz we have weekly episodes coming your way with fascinating people in the world of golf instruction at the highest level. Well, make sure to subscribe and stay tuned. If you want to learn more about Tony, head over to deweepersgolf.com to get all the details on what he’s up to. Maybe you want to see him, grab a lesson or go to one of his camps, pick up his book, Lessons from the Legends. You can do that there. If you want to see Tony in action with some videos and other content, head over to golfciencelab.com/tonony to get more info there. This episode was powered by the Golf Science Lab and was edited, mixed, and produced by Just Hit Publish Productions. [Music] The rule of three states, “Things that come in threes are inherently more appealing than those that don’t.” With our GMC Yukon, Acadia, and Terrain, we couldn’t agree more. Step up to the family focused Yukon built for transporting your family across town to school or across the country. Or the 2019 GMC Acadia, delivering available third row seating for up to seven passengers. Need something mighty? Then meet the 2019 GMC Terrain. 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