It’s been a whirlwind of a year for Ben Griffin with two wins on tour and a pair of top tens in majors with a t-8 finish at the PGA and a t-10 at the US Open. Soly and Ben break down his decision to step away from, and then reenter, the professional golf scene after struggling early in his career, as well as his chase for a Ryder Cup spot, becoming a better driver of the golf ball, life on tour and a ton more.
Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation: https://nolayingup.com/esf
Support our Sponsors:
Holderness & Bourne
The Stack System
Oars & Alps
The NLU email newsletter: bi-monthly updates on all things NLU: https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/subscribe
Join The No Laying Up Nest: https://nolayingup.com/join
No Laying Up Website: https://nolayingup.com/
Follow along with No Laying Up Here:
Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/nolayingup/
Twitter – https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp
Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/nolayingup/
Follow the No Laying Up Squad:
Tron Carter – https://twitter.com/TronCarterNLU
Big Randy – https://twitter.com/BigRandyNLU
DJ Pie – https://twitter.com/DJPie
Young Neil – https://twitter.com/ngschuNLU
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sie here. Got a fun interview coming very shortly with a great interview. I mean, honestly, Ben Griffin is one of my favorite interviews now in golf. Somebody I’m I’ve been rooting for and I’m rooting for even harder after chatting with him. And I think you will be as well. I really sincerely hope he is on the RDER Cup team at Beth Page because that guy’s going to bring some energy, some confidence, and I mean, just listen to him. You’re you’re convinced like yes, you are. I mean, he is one of the best players in the world and you listen to him talk and you’re even more convinced. So, I’m in. All in. You’re going to greatly enjoy this interview. Shout out to our friends at Holderness and Bourne for helping set this up. They got some new colors in the Harwood short, the Ivy, and the Andover. The shorts are quickly becoming one of their bests sellers. They’re versatile for offc course, too. I would show you, but I have them on as well. I’m actually getting out to the golf course today, and I am excited to rock some H&M. I’m almost always rocking some H&B of some kind on the golf course, especially their polos. We’ve worked with them for almost a decade now on their polos. watched them grow as a company and it’s been incredible how much their stuff just continues to get better even when it was great quality from the very beginning. It’s hard to replace some of the shirts in the that I have of theirs in my closet because they last for a really really really long time but they’re constantly coming out with new heat. They got the Amherst colorway which is a soft purple, the Bedford colorway which is a soft dusty blue, the Cape colorway which is a faded coral. Again, the Maxwell shirts iconic peak style great in the heat updated with new colors. Uh all those colors I just listed as well. It’s not too early to start thinking about their cashmere stuff as well. Fall and winter is coming and you can get ahead of the game there. And again, the shorts are fantastic. NLU10 at hbgolf.com gets you 10% off your first order. This and our trap draw code are the only holder and codes out there on the market. Nlu10hbgolf.com for 10% off your first order. Without any further delay, here is Ben Griffin. All right, so we’re recording this fresh off the Open Championship. How’s the jet lag and what’s an off week look like after uh a grind like that? Yeah, it’s super easy traveling west um for getting off uh getting over the jet lag. Um yeah, first first night back we fell asleep at like 8:30 and woke up at 6:30 and it was the most amazing 10 hours. I I feel like nothing beats getting 9 or 10 hours of sleep and waking up early the next day. Like it’s literally the best feeling in the world. And for some reason, I can’t achieve it very often. But I say it’s so obvious that we should go to bed earlier than we do. And it’s just sit sit in bed and watch Netflix and waste time like every single night. And I don’t know how I when I’ll ever learn the lesson. But like getting 10 hours, if you go to bed at 11:00, you wake up at 9:00, it’s not the same as going to bed at 9:00 and waking up at 7:00 or 8:30 and 6:30. Like that 10 hours, just waking up to like the sunrise, man, it’s it’s special. It’s hard to get. It’s hard to get. Random question. I wasn’t expecting to go here off the bat, but like how do you when you’re on the road, let’s say it’s a tournament where, you know, there’s maybe some weather delays, maybe there’s some issues with, you know, you’re getting off the course late and you’re going to be back up early for the next round. Do you ever feel like pressure to try to get to sleep? How do you manage sleep in that scenario? I mean, sleep is so important for performance on the golf course. Like, well, the the the biggest pressure there is actually getting dinner at like an okay time. So, like let’s say you’re there’s a weather delay and you finish late and it’s like we could use the open cham for an example. Let’s say like for some reason there was some weather and you were one of the last groups and it doesn’t get dark until 10:00 but it gets light out at 5:30 and you know you’re going to go back out at like 6. So you already know the turnaround time’s like super small but you’re like all right I need to eat dinner but the problem is when you eat dinner you almost like your body needs like an hour or two to like process it and then you can go to bed and that’s like one of the hardest things. So, I like I like to do a protein shake and try to do something quick like if I’m in an area get Chipotle or something and I I’ve seen guys I can’t remember it might have been uh it was an event it could have been rock and mortgage could have been an event around there um slightly before where guys were eating dinner before going back out on the golf course because they knew they were going to finish late and then try to go to bed and then go go back out. Um, God, I I I remember watching someone eat a burrito walking down the fairway, like going back to to to finish their round. It was hilarious. But yeah, it is tough. And then you als you’re also battling like the the stress of is my alarm going to go off? So, you’re setting like five different alarms. And if you’re by yourself, it’s really stressful. So, that’s when I bring my caddy into play and say, “Hey, if you don’t hear from me by this time, like call the hotel front desk.” Um because not only are you going to bed at 10:30 or whatever, but if you’re going back on the course at 6:30, you’re probably waking up at 3:45 or four o’clock and then, you know, get there, range, everything, everything else. You’re probably even doing like a warm up um in the gym. At least I do. So, yeah. Um waking up’s uh stressful. Um but I never sleep well. Never sleep well. And I don’t think anyone really does. And so, pretty much after that morning round, you’re you’re trying to take a nap of some sort and try to catch back up and then get back on. But yeah, going into like a tournament week, um, talking about sleep, it’s, you know, you you know you’re gonna have a morning tea time, you know you’re gonna have a late tea time. I think the best is when it’s uh early late and you can just knock out that really early round and then you know you can like sleep in the rest of the weekend assuming you’re playing good. Um, but yeah, it’s always the sleep patterns are interesting. Like I track all my sleep data with Whoop and it’s uh it’s hard to get a green recovery like all seven days during a tournament week when you go travel and then you have like a quick turnaround time. It’s just super hard to to keep your body like feeling really good. Well, when you’re waking up at the same time every day, it’s easier to get into a routine on when you should go to bed. But like when you have like you don’t want to be up at 6 if your tea time is at 1:30, right? Like you don’t you don’t want to, you know, kill all that time. So, you want to sleep in on that day, yet that might affect your ability to get to sleep early the next night. And that that uh I don’t know when you when you get to where you guys the level you guys are at, like some of these things are are really important. Like the margins are really really thin. And if your body’s not like ready to perform and getting the proper sleep, it’s like it’s like what if we told LeBron James, hey, your game’s at 8 a.m., you know, tomorrow morning. Like how would he perform? Like probably not very well compared to what he’s used to. And like every other person that I mean you can obviously talk about sports, but you can also talk about the real world like CEOs and like you know anyone that works in business, they’re pretty much on this same routine every single day and it’s pretty easy to get a nice rhythm and it’s just like impossible in the golf world. You just never know. Yeah. Especially you said you don’t sleep well. Like you just you’re a toss and turner. No one does. No one sleeps well on the quick turnaround days. You stay up late and then go the next morning. But like I sleep great like leading into a tournament. I sleep amazing. Yeah, no problem. This is a a story, you know, about your background that everyone is kind of familiar with at this point, but I think for most listeners sake, they could they could buy they could tell the sentence would be like, oh yeah, that that guy was he worked in an office like I don’t know if they know the details of what it was and yeah, he made it back to the PJ tour. Cool story. like what what take us through the timeline because I do have some questions and kind of follow up for based on the success you’ve had in recent years about looking back on that time specifically, but the timeline of how you ended up walking away from the game of golf for a period of time and how you got back into it and reached the level you’re at. But going back to leading up into that decision, kind of take us there. Well, my sleep was really good when I was working. Um except for when I went to too many happy hours, but that’s another story. But no, I mean, yeah, my whole story uh definitely unique. Um most most have heard it but yeah just um playing professional golf obviously um has its challenges early on mini tour level expenses are high it’s tough when I was playing I had a little bit of success and then I kind of lost my cornfairy tour card was playing internationally um when co hit co hits it’s a double season for the corner tour and the PJ tour the landscape of professional golf is just very challenging for someone like me um who’s on the rise um PJ tour wasn’t around yet like a lot of these new creations um have have definitely helped with young talent making it all the way to the PGA Tour. And it’s not like I was a bad golfer. Like I I I went on the Canadian tour. I played on Cornfair events. I played in tour events. Um I had Monday qualified. I’ made the cut on a tour event um before I quit. Like everything was fine. Um the problem was my bank account was not fine and didn’t want to rely on parents. um you know all my friends that were in the call it the real world um or um people uh all my friends that were working uh corporate jobs you know they were able to live on their own they didn’t have to rely on parents for rent and everything like that and so it was tough um mentally you’re kind of ch you’re battling that yes you have to think about like playing professional golf as an investment and like you’re kind of like a startup and you need outside investment to get going but compared to my friends that were analysts for you know Goldman Sachs or whoever it may be like it’s just a really different lifestyle and it’s hard coming out of college trying to have a different lifestyle than like your closest friends and I kind of struggled with that maybe a touch but um the most important thing was I just was out of money and it was in the actually it wasn’t out of money I was in the hole significantly the only way to get back out of it was to um take advantage of the low rates in the mortgage world so I had to go into the mortgage no I’m just kidding uh my mom was in the mortgage industry my dad was in housing industry. I was doing some stuff with my dad um real estate wise. Um when I stepped away from golf, I was basically struggling on the not struggling but wasn’t making any money on the mini tours. Um started working um a man by the name of Doug Sig, CEO of Lord Abbott Asset Management Group up in New Jersey. Basically, I played golf with him, built a connection with not only him but mutual friend Randy Meyers, um who’s my trainer. He kind of like Doug was telling Randy like I want to sponsor a golfer who’s at you know the bottom like and work their way up to the tour someone on the mini tour level or whatever. And um he had told Randy that for a while and then when he found out I quit he was like you’re you’re my guy like I just need to sponsor you. I didn’t realize everything you were going through cuz it’s hard for me to express that to like members that I meet at Ste Island or wherever it might be of just like how struggling how much of a struggle it can be being on the miniature level. But um once I quit, he was like, “Oh man, like I need to sponsor you. Like we need to get you back.” And sorry to pause here, but did when you stepped away, did you think you were done for good with with pro golf at any point? Totally. Totally. Yeah. I was completely done. Um so me, I had two buddies that were also playing professional golf at the time, Will Register, um who’s a college teammate and another guy, Jake Schuman, who played at Duke, which I don’t know why I’m friends with him, but um yeah. No, he’s a close friend of mine. He’s great. But um we basically, me and Jake kind of quit at the same time. We were both excited to to start something new, fresh, where we felt like we could actually see light at the end of the tunnel because in 2021 with the golf world, like I could go do Monday qualifiers, I could finish fifth in a PJ tour event and it would do absolutely nothing in terms of my career trajectory of getting a PJ tour card. I could finish third and it wouldn’t do anything because the double season, it’s just like I I’d make 200 FX Cup points, but I’d be so far behind of get keeping my car because it’s a double season. And so you basically we basically were trying to wait until Q school and it was just this was you know the beginning of the year in 2020 2021. So it was like another eight months and we’re just like trying to stay afloat and that I think we both just got tired of it. We’re like let’s let’s go do something new. So he became a financial adviser. He’s having a lot of success now which is awesome. And then my buddy will register quit later that summer. Um and he was he got into the commercial real estate game. So we kind of all quit at the same time and we were both we were all kind of excited to start fresh. I had never never thought I was going to come back to golf. Like I tr and like people say it all the time. They’re like, “Well, you probably knew you were going to come back to golf.” I was like, “No, I I literally I tried to step away from golf as much as possible.” I was working during the week. I was going to the lake with my friends on the weekends. I was going to happy hours, meeting realtors, trying to do everything I could to to grow business um early on. And I was also trying to learn, you know, how to be a good loan officer. I had a lot of good mentors on on the team that I was with, the Robbie Oaks mortgage team. And it was a fun little grind for a little while, but basically Doug called me right when I basically started that job and was like, “I want to sponsor you and get you back.” And I was like, “Not right now. Timing is not good. If you sponsor me right now, I’d go play Monday qualifiers all summer and it wouldn’t matter.” I’m like, “I might be like, “Let me talk to you in August if something changes or end of July if something changes. But right now, like I just want to get away from golf.” And it turned out to be an incredible break for me from a perspective standpoint from rejuvenating you know mentally like you know my drive and everything like that. And so yeah basically uh I called Doug after I had a few signs um that were telling me like you’re 25 you got to go take advantage of your talents that you have. And the couple rounds of golf that I played between March and July I played really well after zero I wouldn’t go to the range or anything. I’d just go tee it up on the first play with a realtor. play I play in a member guest and um yeah, everything just kind of was telling me I need to go play golf. I I drove to the golf course um trying to drive to the office one day just early in the morning like instinctual which to be fair like the office I was working in was right beside the golf course and I grew up playing the same golf course that I was playing um you know leading up to when I quit and so it was easy for me to make that mistake but it was just early in the morning and I just wasn’t thinking intro to the golf course and then my grandpa passed away he got me into golf there’s all these kind of signs um I’m not like a crazy religious guy it’s just these signs were kind of kind of hitting me and we’re like, “You need to I had these someone was telling me I need to go play golf.” And I I called Doug right away. I was like, “Hey, if you still want to sponsor me, I’m about to make a run and we’re going to go do some cool things.” And sure enough, um started playing really well. Got through the Cornferry tour. Um started playing well on the Cornferry Tour in 2022. Um pretty much right away. Um and basically locked up my tour card within couple months on that tour and made it to the PJ tour and started having success. And here we are in 2025 and yeah, everything’s everything’s changing. But uh it’s been a it’s been a really cool story. It’s been a Yeah, I mean it’s it’s nuts. But yeah, the the moral that the moral of the story is like no, I was never going to come back to golf. I was excited to get away from it. Even though my game was good and I I believed I I could still make it. I just didn’t see the pathway like being I felt like I had better success of being successful in the business world faster than making it to the PJ tour, honestly. And then when those signs hit and Doug was there and uh yeah, I’m just super blessed because you’re looking up at a mount like you’re when you’re in that that group like I I call like the blender of there’s how many the number of guys that are in your talent pool essentially when you’re a mini tour level is in the thousands, right? It’s guys that can go shoot 61 at any golf course on the planet essentially. And it’s it’s you know the the next like all the levels you got to pass up to get to where you’re at today is super super intimidating. Even as talented the line’s just the line’s just thin. I mean yeah it’s hard to rank guys when it comes down. And it’s like we look at this strokes gain data and stuff and look at our rankings even on tour and it’s like and you hear guys even in other sports like Roger Federer always talked about how I think he won like 51% of the points he even played over the course of his career yet he won you know however many majors grand slam titles. It’s just it’s just the line’s so thin and there’s just a huge pool of of guys and you just got to continue to chip away at it and trust the system. And like even Scotty Shuffler, I mean, you know, when he turned pro, there wasn’t PJ tour. He was playing mini tour golf and then he got on the cornfair tour through the Q school. He barely got through Q school, made a big putt to get his card and then never really won. Finished second a bunch early on and then got on tour and never really won and then just broke through. And I feel like he just kind of continue to learn, continue to get experience. And it’s a journey for some people. Other people may have success early on um and and make it easy quick, but for a lot of guys it’s a journey and I think that’s one of the coolest things and that’s the most fun part about it is is honestly the journey and like Scotty even talks about it. It’s like you win you win these tournaments and it’s just like huge boost of emotion and stuff and it’s exciting but the most exciting thing is literally just the journey leading up and then the journeys you continue to to go down um after you win. Well, I was just thinking about this like you know guys talk so much about status exemptions and what that that value is, right? And I’m just trying to think of this like quickly like if you took like you’re the you’re the 13th ranked data golf player in the world right now. But if you if they if you took away all of your status and you had to start at the bottom right now, that’d be pretty intimidating, right? Like if you just went if you have no you got to go to Q school, you got to go through core like you’d be playing under a different level of pressure. Whereas compare that to the NBA like who’s the 13th best player in the NBA? Hey, I just Googled this. It’s saying it’s Anthony Davis. If you put him in the G-League, it’d be like one day like, “Oh, well, that’s an NBA guy. Put him right back up in the league.” But that’s just not how golf works. Like, it’s a it’s such a crazy level of pressure to achieve to get to the level. And then like once you get to that level, what you achieve is is kind of um I don’t know how to say this, but it’s like very it’s a very different t. You tell me. It seems like it’s a very different task once you get there of like what it takes to succeed at the highest level. And you know, you’re beating guys that you know, you were looking up to four or five years ago quite easily and on repeat. Like, how did how did that how does that happen? Yeah, I was talking about it on PJ Tour Radio this morning. Just they asked me, is there more pressure keeping your PGA Tour card or getting your PGA Tour card? Or actually, they didn’t ask if there’s more pressure. They said, “Is it more difficult to get your PJ tour card?” And I just said, “There’s way more pressure of making it all the way to the PJ tour.” It’s pressure because like you don’t know if you’re going to make it or not. and you know you’re you’re probably good enough at least you you want to think that way. Everyone needs to think that way. That’s on the mini tour level and the corn free tour level. They need to think that they are already capable of being a PJ tour winner. But with the way the rankings work and everything and all these external forces, it makes it really hard to actually believe that as a as a mini tour player, as a cornfair tour player, even though they are capable of it. Like for instance, Johnny Kefir who’s on the cornfair tour like he’s won a couple times. Even Neil Shipley’s won a couple times. Like those guys can win on the PJ tour. If they play that same level of golf that they played on those weeks where they won and they brought them to the PJ tour event, they’d be in the in contention on the back nine. Whether or not they get it done, it it just comes down to what they do on the last few holes. But yeah, the line’s thin and there’s a lot of pressure and your goals kind of shift and as you kind of get more and more experience, at least for me, it’s like I was playing really good golf, but like none of this everything that’s happened kind of this summer. I mean, it’s just like I got over the hump and and won at Zurich and then won again at Charles Schwab. And it’s just building confidence, building experience, reminding yourself that you can do it. And then it’s easy to remind yourself you can do it when you’re already playing against the best players in the world. Like when you’re when you’re Neil Shipley and you’re beating Cornfrey Tour players and they’re you you know their rankings are anywhere between 200 and a thousand in the world. It’s hard to to believe that you’re actually like one of the best players in the world even though he probably is. I mean that week he definitely is. So, you just got to kind of trust that process. And as a player, you know, for me at least, all I can do is try to work hard every week. Um, you know, out there on tour and even off weeks, try to do the right things to to get myself ready to get to that next event and try to get back in the mix. And I’d say that the biggest thing for me now is just having that experience down the stretch, having that experience of beating the best players in the world. It’s only going to help me more and more as rookies come out and they’re trying to get it done. Like, I’m just going to have a little bit of an edge, you know? I like that feeling. Your ball speed, your club head speed is up. And that’s I’m curious kind of what’s the driver of that? I mean, you you were you’re 117 club head speed on average right now this season. You were just a tick below 115 a year ago. You were 136th in driving last year. Now you’re 73rd. You’re now 46th in strokes gained off the tea. You’ve gone from a below average driver to above average. How did you accomplish that? And was there a was that a conscious decision based on the way the game is trending? Yeah, I’d say that’s probably a decent answer. Um, yeah, a lot of it actually started at the beginning of the year. I I didn’t go into this year actually trying to to gain distance or anything like that. I was trying to drive it straighter, no doubt. Um, that’s been the biggest thing that’s held me back the last couple years on tour is hitting it straighter off the tea. Um, it it kind of cost me a few tournaments honestly, just not putting it in the fairway enough um, my first two years and and this year I’ve put it in way more fairways. And then the distance parts really because I was battling quad tenonitis basically um the area between my knee and um and my quad. I was having some tenonitis problems and I hired a physio to try to help with that um alleviate some of the pain. And what I what he kind of taught me was I need to I need to get way stronger in my legs to kind of beat this tenonitis. So I don’t go into a bunker and I put weight on my left side and all of a sudden I feel like I can’t hit a bunker shot cuz that’s how I felt at Pebble this year. So this was the fourth event of the year and fifth event of the year and I was struggling to hit bunker shots and I was like I need to change this and so started working out on my fitness more trying to feel better kind of alleviated that tenonitis within about a month that’s probably now you know we’re closer to like Mexico open I’m feeling 100% and finished fourth sure enough so like my body’s feeling good and then kind of going from there I was just really consistent with my workout programs with uh my trainer, Derek Schmidt. Um, we’ve been working extremely hard this entire year. He travels with me. I share him as a trainer with Ricky Fowler. So, it’s been it’s been fun to do some workouts together with him even. Um, and then just learn from from Ricky. But more importantly, um, yeah, with Derek, just trying to get stronger, trying to do the right things before and after rounds. And as I started going in the I was never really in the PJ tour trail as much. I was working out or or stretching or doing whatever I do before my rounds, you know, last year at my hotel because I thought it was easier and then having to go into a crammed, you know, PJ tour trailer where sometimes you’ll have 10 guys in there, you can’t even move. But as I was in there, I I was seeing like Rory come in from time to time, seeing other guys, seeing what they’re doing, um some of the top players, how they’re working out, and I was like, man, I need to I need to do even more or maybe even do more than what they do. And so me and Derek set up a game plan and it’s been awesome to get stronger and because of that I’ve kind of been gaining more and more distance off the tea and yeah I remember leading up to the PJ championship um at Quail I was my literally the three weeks prior all I was thinking about was that the bunker right of 16 fairway it’s like 320 yards and every single time we play the what was the Wells Fargo now will be the truest championship. Every single time Roy Macroy Ted off on that T- box, he just took it over that bunker. And everyone else in the field is like trying to fit it in left of it, but then there’s water and like down slope left, it’s just like one of the hardest holes. And all I could think about every single week leading up to PGA was I got to carry that bunker. And I was so mad because I I was literally working out hard and was practicing hard and was swinging hard on the range and I couldn’t carry that bunker. And it was by like five yards every single time. And that just kind of motiv like little things like that were like motivating me to like even hit it further because Rory’s gaining two shot like a shot and a half on the field on that one hole. And so that’s that was kind of like my aha moment of man I can really try to take advantage of my length and yeah I mean right after the PGA was Charles Schwab. I mean I was still working out and and starting to hit it further and I definitely took advantage of my length there. Um and that probably helped me win not only because I was hitting it far but I was hitting it really straight. like that course doesn’t necessarily you don’t need to be a bomber to win there. Um most holes are like irons off the tea, but there were some holes where I could really take advantage of my driver. For instance, um dog left number 12 at Colonial Country Club. Most guys can’t clear that left bunker. In the final round, I was the longest drive on that that hole and took it over that bunker and had a gap wedge in when most guys were hitting eight irons. And like that’s the difference. And so little things like that like I I can’t go I can’t go too overboard. Um, honestly like I was I was struggling. John Deere was my fourth or fifth event in the row I think um after playing over some really good golf and I could feel my body not it wasn’t in good form but I had committed to John Deere and I I want I definitely didn’t want to withdraw. Um I wanted to show my support to that tournament and so uh I played with a little bit of like lower back tightness um which I’m totally I’m 100% recovered now. I mean, it was super small issues, but I definitely wasn’t swinging like comfortably there. And so, it was really good to rest before the open. Felt way better at the open. I just made some bad swings, but um yeah, I mean, to answer, I I I’ve kind of led on a little bit from what you asked me, but um but yeah, no, it’s been it’s been fun to chase this the speed a little bit. I’m definitely seeing a lot of um positive results from it. There’s a lot of events coming up where I I know taking advantage of hitting it a little bit further is going to be huge. But yeah, it’s just uh just being disciplined in the weight room. I was never big into fitness. College, out of college. Out of college um was working with Randy Myers and we and you know I we had good game plans and everything like that. Everything was great, but I’ve just for some reason this year things have just clicked and it’s just made all the more sense in terms of just trying to take care of my body but also get stronger and take advantage of these early years on tour where I can actually swing it hard. Um, yeah, Padrick Harrington’s hitting it just as far as me at however old he is. Um, so who knows if I can still do it at that age, but taking advantage of these these young young years where new guys are coming out on tour every year, hitting it far, Thorbjorn. I mean, I played the other week. They had me in a group at Rocket with Aldrich and Thor Bjornson. And I felt like I felt so old and felt so like deflated after teeing off on every hole. Even though I felt like I was actually hitting it pretty good, they’re just bombing it by me. And I’ve got to I’ve got to continue to do the right things to to keep it up with them because that’s the next generation of golfers. And you know, those guys are aren’t going to hit it any shorter. And if anything, they’re going to figure out ways to hit it even straighter with modern technology with with swings and and and learning the game early. I mean, I’ve got to continue to do some of the stuff I’m doing to stay ahead. Wow. Well, it’s it’s just funny to hear you say like take advantage of my length like cuz by by the data golf measures, you were almost four yards below average last year like in distance and now you’re the way you’re addressing golf courses, being able to blow it over bunkers and and and say take advantage of my length is uh it’s not that’s not like easily achieved, you know? It’s uh you know it and the and the stats probably aren’t even like that accurate for this year because like I said I was betting on quat teninitis early. So I was swinging slow all the all the west coast swing really didn’t start swinging faster until you know a few weeks before the PGA like really Mexico cognizant is when I started gaining a little bit. So if you actually were to compare like my last four months of stats three months of stats versus last year I mean it’s significantly I’m at a significant advantage from the golfer I was a year ago. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just saw your your your ball speed average for the year is 177, but I’ve also seen you live in the in the low to mid 180. 180. It’s probably 180 right now based on the last few months. Um, but if I want to like on the range before the final round of the open, like I was 182. That was without my max fly ball that I normally use on the range. We had some u a little hiccup there with my range ball problems, but so with a max fly, I was probably 183 or 184. Oh, that’s why you missed the cut then at the open. That makes sense. You didn’t have your my numbers weren’t dialed. You didn’t have your your your range balls over there. But yeah, I know, right? You know what ad is coming next? It is the stack the stacksystem.com code. No laying up. I could have done it live in the middle of that interview because it was just teed up too perfectly. I I hit my I tied my personal record uh in the in my backyard the other day uh with my speed training. I hit 115 miles an hour on the stack radar. It’s so fun to do. I started at 106 and now I can swing the stack weighted stick 115 miles an hour with 195 grams on it and it’s just really rewarding. I It’s a great program. I’ve stuck with it. I look forward to doing it. I do the stretching routine multiple times a week, even when I’m not doing a stack workout. You can do it every other day or maybe once every three days. The app guides you through everything, tells you exactly what weights to swing, and you will see immediate gains on the golf course. I’m amazed at how far my irons are flying and how easy it is for me to get to to numbers and power uh and distances that I struggled to once get to or I’d have to work harder to get to. I can cruise at those numbers now, which will allow me to play a lot better golf. I I greatly appreciate the system. The wedges uh wedge system is fantastic. The putting system is fantastic. You’re going to get better at golf if you stick to the stack system. Again, the stacksystem.comlu code no laying up and you will get better at golf if you dedicate yourself to it. It does not take much time. It is some of the most efficient time you could spend improving at the game of golf. Stacksystem.com/nlu code no laying up for 10% off. Back to Ben Griffin. Kind of coming back to to how we started with, you know, Doug’s uh Doug sponsoring you. H how do you how do you go about and I don’t mean like literally with money, but how do you go about paying somebody back like that? Because you’re talking about your bank account being in the negatives. If I go to your homepage on uh on PGA Tour, I see 14,857,388 in career earnings. Suck. No. 8 million this year alone. First question though, did that did that change your life in the way that you were expecting that it might have? Obviously, if you’d have told, you know, the guy at the happy hours at the at the uh when you’re in the mortgage business, first of all, I I I can imagine you wear those happy hours just be like, I could play on the PGA tour, guys. You wouldn’t even believe it. But We actually did a happy hour at a Topgolf and I had like 14 different realtors all just like trying to analyze like my golf game like and they were like how do you do like what do you what do you think about like I was I was basically a teaching pro at a Top Golf and I’m like all right I I’ll give you this lesson but you got to send me some business. They’re like, “All right.” Yeah. Yeah. But um yeah, I asked like four questions there, but like did it did the did making, you know, a significant amount of money in a short period of time change the way in the in uh and your change your life in the way that you maybe would have expected it would have several years ago. Yeah. I mean, when you’re when you’re playing mini tour level golf and the cornfairy tour and and even when I was working like you just want to have enough to where you can like go to the grocery like for me at least go to the grocery store and buy like kind of what I want and go to Chipotle and get what you know double meat or whatever it might have been. Like I mean people talk about that all the time in the golf world. I think Victor Hofflin started it with the double guac or whatever. Uh but that stuff’s true. Like all you want to do is be able to just afford to travel, play professionally. Scotty talks about all the time, play on in PJ tour events and and just be able to be competitive cuz all of us are super competitive. And the money thing is like it’s the most incredible thing in the world and like we’re super like I’m so grateful. I I I don’t even know what to do with like like it feels generational at this point because I’m like such a I’m not frugal, but I’m definitely a saver and just like looking at my account, it’s just it’s crazy um to even think about and process. But um yeah, I mean all we wanted to all you want to do at those those early levels is just be able to afford to to go and play and not have to think about it, not have to think about your your rent payments or anything like that. And so, yeah, I mean, to to look back four years ago and look at where I am today, like, did I expect it to be quite like this? No. But, like, did I believe that I could be as good of a golfer as I am? Like, absolutely. And with the way the the landscape of professional golf has worked recently, there’s just been significant high rewards for playing really good golf. And the cool thing about PJ Tour compared to other sports is like you have like I go on a run like what I’m on right now. If I was in in the NBA, I’d be like locked into a contract. um like a rookie contract or whatever it might be. Like in golf, you can come out as a rookie and have a ton of success and you get rewarded right away. And I think that’s one of the most beautiful things about this this sport and what makes it so cool. Um is you you get to reap the benefits based on your value that you bring. And not many sports like it’s hard to kind of kind of get to that point. You have to be you have to play really well for a long time in the NBA and the NFL to kind of reach those big contracts. NHL, same thing. And it’s it it’s so cool in golf. But um yeah, I mean I I would give all of it to Doug Sig right now if he asked for it. That’s for sure. If he wants my defender that I want at the Colonial, you can go come come by and pick it up. I it won’t I don’t care. Like he’s done so much for me in my career, you know? I’m just blessed to be able to to pay my mortgage and to be able to travel and and go see really cool places with um my fiance Dana and go go go play competitively. It’s uh it’s pretty damn cool. Does having the floor or the built-in kind of uh you know base that you have now free you up in any way um from a competitive standpoint in terms of when you’re coming down the stretch of the Memorial going headto-head with Scotty Sheoffller, are you thinking about money at all in any of that or are you thinking, you know, in are you able to focus on the moment and trying to win the golf tournament? You know, I’m curious and has that evolved over your career as well? Yeah, the money is just the byproduct, but early on in your career, it’s it it doesn’t feel that way. You’re thinking about it. Um, and it takes maybe I remember talking to Pat Gazire about it when I was living in Sea Island. He’s like, you just got to you eventually hit this number. He’s like, it’s it’s not even like an exact number, but it’s just like you reach this random point in your professional golf crew when you make it on the PJ tour where you you make enough or you have this number that hits and all of a sudden you just don’t even think about it anymore. And it’s so true, but early on all you think about is what the difference is if I was one shot lower or whatever. And like now I’m at the point where yeah, I’m just trying to win golf tournaments. I mean, I went on a run, this last run that I was on where I won a couple times. And I remember texting my financial adviser and been like, “Yep, here comes another big one.” Uh like every week and it’s just like, “Yep, you ready for the next one next Wednesday?” And then and boom, we just add another another chunk to the to the portfolio. And but yeah, I mean on the golf course I’m not thinking about it really much at all. I mean you you know of it but like in the moment you’re just thinking about trying to trying to go as low as possible. I mean there’s so much we’re playing for and it’s all external and all that stuff honestly just gets in the way. I’d say one of the biggest advantages though, and I talked about this, I mentioned it earlier about being on the radio this morning for um PJ tour radio, but they asked me another question. Um they asked me another question about like having like the difference between being on the Cornfair Tour and the PJ tour. And it’s like now I’m able to invest more into myself. So like my physio, my trainer is like traveling with me every week. Like you can’t do that on the corner tour. You can’t do that on many tour levels. And that’s only going to make me a way better golfer. Like I have my my foresight quad that’s measuring every single shot I hit on the range and I have my max fly balls most weeks on on on PJ tour with the exception of last week which is just a hiccup. I hate that I’m bringing it up. Like hopefully they don’t see this, but no, like stuff like that like it it helps me so much more than like the the players coming up. Like and I’m used to the PJ tour conditions so the next, you know, next year I know all the golf courses. Like there’s so many advantages to to staying on the PJ tour. And I think if you invest your money correctly and you don’t buy fancy spend all your money on fancy cars and all these things, you actually invest in like becoming a better golfer, like you can really reap a lot of benefits that are that are handed in our direction. Well, not only that, you’re you’re you’re involved in some off-c course business related stuff these days. And and is that more uh tell us about that one and is that more of a a financial investment or is this a a uh are you spending a sign significant amount of time uh building a business that you’re working on? Kind of tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, I assume you’re talking about Triad um property management company. Yes. Yes. Cool. Yeah. Uh I’ve been working a lot on that actually. uh the couple couple friends from college um that I’ve been um kind of investing with the last four years since I’ve started making money in professional golf um just with short-term rentals. But yeah, I mean I was on a hour and a half call this morning about marketing strategy stuff. Um no, this is so this is one of the benefits of being a pro golfer is that you don’t have to do hour and a half calls. Like this is you should be chilling and watching Netflix right now. I’m curious why you want to do this. It’s good to get your brain off of golf during it. So, you asked me a question about off weeks. Like, I do practice. Like, I’ll go this afternoon and go practice, but um and work out from 1 to 3 with my trainer, so in an hour and 20 minutes. But, um I like to get my mind completely like kind of away from it. And yeah, we we’ll go do, you know, me and Dana will go do fun things around town and and whatnot. But, it’s fun to kind of have this side venture because I don’t know how long I’m going to be playing top tier professional golf. I hope it’s a very long time, but I’m trying to have as many backup plans honestly as possible to to protect myself long term. And so a lot of that’s I mean yeah every guy pretty much has a financial adviser and you can have your safe investments and everything like that. I’ve been trying to build something really cool with um just a couple friends that um basically were just trying to um help with um owners and developers and whoever um have a better marketing strategy with their their um their homes or short-term rentals or units, whatever you want to maybe call it, and come up with better pricing strategies and um better ideas of how you should develop maybe a short-term rental. Um and the company has been been great. We have 25 employees right now. Pretty much working non-stop. CEO Blake was one of my close friends in college. And uh he’s grinding hard right now, meeting with Airbnb executives, whoever. I mean, we’re talking to all sorts of people right now. And it’s been a really fun pro project that we’re working on. And yeah, it’s it’s cool because, you know, I’m invested um not only with properties, but invested in the company. Um and it’s something we’ve kind of built from the ground up. So, it’s uh it’s been really fun to spend some time on that. I I have a call. I do all my calls basically during tournament weeks, Monday and Tuesday mornings with that and also other business ventures that I’m starting to do. But um I’m super blessed. It’s it’s hard because I remember when I was working um in the corporate world for a little bit. It’s like it’s hard to to really build something from a company standpoint without capital. And like I’m just so grateful to have like it’s easy for me to do it now. It’s it’s it’s too easy because I have access to, you know, to money and and to be able to invest and it’s really hard for a lot of people out there to to start a company and I’m just like super super blessed to even be able to to do it and hopefully we can help a lot of people along the way. Cool. Yeah, that’s that’s uh you don’t hear that from a lot of other uh a lot of other PJ tour pros. So, yeah, probably no one interesting. I’ve heard Rory Mroy is invested in the hotel business. He likes hotel stuff, but he’s in a lot of Yeah. But he’s I mean, a lot of the athletes will use their image um and kind of get involved into equity deals or whatnot. And like I guess I I could potentially do some of those things, but it’s more fun building from the ground up something of my own. I like that. Yep. Uh back to the golf course. I’m curious how uh how the pairing with Andrew Novak uh came to be. And you know, for both of you guys, that was your first PGA Tour wins. I’m kind of curious what what it’s like trying to accomplish that. You know, pro golf being as lonely as it is on a week- toeek basis. You’re trying to accomplish something that you’ve dreamed of for for your entire lives, but you get to do it with someone. Uh kind of what was that like coming down the pressure? Poor Andrew. I mean, he asked like a million people and no one would say yes. And I was like, “Yeah, I’ll play with you, man. Like, I’ll help you get over the hump.” No, I’m just kidding. Um we had talked about it for a couple years, actually. We played together all the time in Sea Island. Um, you know, we were both working out with Randy Myers for years. Um, going in together, working out in the mornings, playing uh, money matches and we always we were always kind of winning together when we had those money matches against other PJ tour pros, other other pros in C Island. Like when me and him were together, we just always played really well and fed off each other and we were like, we got to play together at Zurich one one year. And so I was going to play with him my first year, but Ryan Gerard was uh, had just turned special temporary through the Honda Classic. I was going to play with him because he was a college teammate of mine. And then the the next year he ended up playing with Davis Thompson who was also at C Island and I played with Taylor Montgomery and I can’t remember why it didn’t work out that year, but it didn’t. But we were still talking about it. We’re like, man, we why aren’t we playing together this year? And we even talked about it at Zurich. Yeah. And then this year we’re like we basically locked in after that last year of like, yeah, we’re going to play together. And sure enough, he was playing extremely good going in and during like it was crazy some of the golf he was playing. I was playing pretty well. I hadn’t played the previous two weeks because I was 51 in the world, missed the Masters by a spot, and then was first alternate in RBC, but my game was good because the weeks before that I was finished fourth Mexico, fourth um Cognizant. And so we were both coming in in really good form and yeah, it’s just like we were so confident and he was he chipped in three times um during that week. I chipped in once. Um we made some big putts, some big moments. It was uh it’s that that tournament is probably one of the hardest to win. I had never even made the cut there the first two years. I was like, man, this is like the hardest tournament in the world. Like, not only do you one of you have to play well, you both have to play well. And it for some reason, it just feels like a really difficult golf tournament. And then coming down the stretch, you have the pressure of having a teammate and uh you know, you’re trying to look out for each other. You’re trying to have a game plan, but you’re also trying to play your own game. And so, um yeah, it was it was really special to to get over the hump with him. I think both of us felt like we were due. And um it was pretty cool to to get it done and um kind of maybe he hasn’t Andrew’s played pretty solid since but um there’s no doubt it’s been huge for both of our careers um just in terms of freeing us up and um I’m sure he’s going to make a big playoff push and and hopefully I do the same. Did it help you at Colonial you think having you know having the uh the trophy kind of having done it before did that help you coming down the stretch? Totally. Felt super calm. Um, you know, there’s a lot of pressure to to winning on tour. And there’s a lot of a lot of benefits to winning on tour. Um, and I hadn’t locked up like, you know, PJ tour retirement. You don’t get any of your retirement money unless you play on on tour for 5 years. It doesn’t invest until that that fifth year of playing 15 events. And so me and Andrew both knew that when we won Zurich, like that was the first thing. I think we talked to Ravenport about that and he’s like, “What are you talking about?” I was like, “Yeah, every single player no one gets retirement benefits unless you’re you’re on tour for 5 years with 15 events each year.” And so, yeah, that basically locked that up. Um, which was huge. And then you also have the two-year exemption on tour. And we’re also so high up on the FedEx Cup that like, you know, you’re not going to lose your card. Like, you’re not going to miss the I wasn’t going to miss the playoffs. Um, so I had nothing to lose. And, you know, competing coming down the stretch against Maddie, I mean, you know, he has way more to lose than I do. And, um, I was just bu, you know, building off the confidence from the previous weeks. was playing really good golf and felt really confident in my physical game but also just calm and collected um because I had had the experience of winning and so yeah coming down the stretch I felt great. Um it was playing extremely tough. Uh, I didn’t hit the green in regulation on the last six holes and I felt like I didn’t hit I had one bad swing in that stretch which is I looked back on it like a couple days after and was going through the shots and I couldn’t believe how hard it was playing because I literally had one bad swing on the last last six holes. So hard. It was um but it was pretty cool moment. So he chips in on 18 and you have a putt that I would say is short enough that it would have been a really bad situation if you had missed but not long enough to be a gimme. Oh yeah. Take Yeah, take me to that. That’s a nightmare putt to win. I’d rather have an eight-footer. I think that or a two-footer. Like that’s that that’s in the nightmare zone. So like where how do you possibly have in your headsp space like a hey I’ve made a million four-footers in my life when you know what’s on the line with that putt. Uh, you know, that’s a ma you were not in the Masters, I think, as of that point, right? That that that’s I guess top 50. You were looking good for that by the end of the year, but you you want that ticket locked up. Like what do you think about in that moment and how how did you feel standing over that putt? Yeah, I made the exact same putt when I went on the Mackenzie tour, the Canadian Tour in 2018. I had a four-footer, three four-footer on the last hole, left to right, left edge. And I remember over that putt in 2018, all I kept telling myself in my head was left edge, left edge, left edge, like just on repeat just to concentrate on what I was trying to do and not think about anything else. And so I was kind of thinking about that a little bit on 18, but honestly, I was so calm. Like I do this I do this Tiger Woods drill before every single round where I put two T’s around my putter and do it’s a gate drill and I do it on a right to lefter and a left to right. And I do it with my right hand, left hand, both hands. I do it before every single round. I do it on a right edge putt and a left edge putt and it felt like the exact same thing that I do before every single tournament round. Uh and I just had to had to stay calm and execute it. And I just seen Ricky, he chips in and then Ricky um had a putt that basically grazed my mark and I knew exactly what the putt was going to do and I knew it was going to be a left edge putt. And yeah, it’s a it’s a weird moment mentally because going into that hole after Matty well not going into the hole but going into the green after Matty had missed the green left and I was kind of in a awkward spot but I chipped first and and put it to four feet. You kind of want to tell yourself like all right you know you did it but he still has this shot to to tie it up. And when you’re chasing all you’re thinking about is making every single shot when you’re leading you’re kind of you have to prevent yourself from playing too defensively. I think when you’re leading, you have to try to continue to have some offense, but when you’re chasing, it’s all offense. You don’t even contemplate being defensive. And so, you have to think for him, he’s going to aim for that hole, and you know, he’s a professional golfer. There’s always a chance. And sure enough, he did it. And it’s like, it’s one of those I I remember laughing after it because I was like, “Of course this happens.” Like, you know, of course he chips in. But, uh, I just kind of reset reset the focus. And um yeah, I just hit a hit an awesome putt and honestly just kind of almost walked it in after looking at the video. Like you don’t know it’s kind of an out-of- body experience when you win, but um or when you see a shot pull off exactly how you want and so just picked it up and took that defender and got out of there. Listen, it’s summertime. It’s hot, you know, especially down here in Florida. I’m not like necessarily craving being outdoors, but man needs more sun. This is your formal invitation to spend less time behind your screens and more time outside with friends in the sun. It’s great for your physical and mental health. It makes you happier. And look, if you’re on the golf course, you’re you’re doubling up on that. You’re going to get a great thrill out of playing some golf and you’re going to get the sunshine, the vitamin D you need to help your mental and physical health. I’m going to go do that today. I’ve been behind a screen for way too long this year and uh I’m gonna get out and the first thing I’m gonna do before I get to that first tea box, I’m gonna lather up some Oes and Alps. They make great sunscreen for men specifically. You can count on them for hardworking formulas that are good for your skin. No, none of the tropical scents. You’re not going to smell like a pinina colada. It’s lightweight, non-greasy, non-sticky, no white cast or chalky residue. It’s easy to use and travel friendly for uh applying and reapplying on the go. The hands-free formats, sprays, mists, sticks, you know all about that. Cannot have any glandular issues. Cannot be rubbing lotion uh on, you know, with your hands onto your skin on that opening T-shot. So, uh, again, I live in Florida. I’m in the sun all the time, and I’ve never once experienced one kind of burn since I started using ORS and Alps. The spray radius, which is more important than it may sound on their uh on the spray, is really, really good. It covers your skin. And you can go to orzandalps.com. You can use code NL15 to get 15% off Orz & Alps sunare and skincare today. It’s it’s a great deal. I actually just went on there and re-uped there myself because I I’ve using so much of this stuff because uh we we’re starting to get outdoors a little more with the kids and all that stuff. Code NLU15 for 15% off at orandalps.com. Back to the pod. That’s I mean it’s there’s something to a a when you’re in a a pressure situation, this can go for any golfer anywhere in the world. If you’re trying to break 90, trying to break 80, trying to break 70, whatever it might be, you’re trying to win the Schwab of like the feeling of of let’s go, let’s go do this. I’m going to I’m going to do this. like I I am here to do this right here versus what could go wrong in this exact moment. And it’s I don’t know you’re playing that well all week. You’re probably in that mode all you know it’s probably I’m probably making it more dramatic than it probably was internally. But I think all of us watching will sit here and say gosh I have had four-footers that have had a lot less on the line and I have panicked over uh in some way. And I just so I just find the process what you said there about like that’s why you guys preach routine so much like it’s it’s exactly you you you knew exactly what to think about. It was something physical. It was not I want that defender that’s sitting back there. It’s I need to be at this left edge. And that’s that’s an interesting so many so many golfers negative thoughts are the easiest things to to creep in your mind and it’s hard to reinforce positive thoughts. And as professional golfers at the highest level you have to constantly do that and you can’t get frustrated. We’ve seen golfers get frustrated this year. It’s not good and it doesn’t put you in a good headsp space and it doesn’t help you execute better on the next shot and it’s not a good look in general. So, you know, for me, I I focus a lot on on staying positive and also just getting rid of the I remember I used to think about like even when I first started playing professional golf, I used to think about like hazards that were in play and think about OB and trying to play away from from penalties. And at some point in my career, it kind of clicked of, all right, we can take on these challenges and these penalties. I’ve watched it on TV. I see Rory take it over out of bounds stakes and bunkers. Like, if he’s if he’s going to do it, then I have to do it. Like, you can’t focus on the negative outcome. You can’t think about the negative outcomes. You have to concentrate on what you can control. There’s no external things that should be getting in the way right now. Can’t think about the whatifs. You just have to focus on what your target is and executing a good shot and and seeing it. You see Jason Day all the time close his eyes. I’ve seen Scotty Sheffle even do it. Actually, no one the cameras have I don’t think have picked it up, but I played with him somewhere and he he closed his eyes for a couple seconds and I was like, man, I’ve never seen him do that before. Um, but just to like clear your mind and put a good image and a good picture in. And that’s what makes the top player so good is because we don’t have those negative thoughts that creep in. It’s like if there’s a hazard on both sides, we’re still thinking about executing a really good shot and we’re not thinking about those and we’re just trusting our games. And that’s what you got to do. Every golfer out there has to do it. Yeah. Every like 99.9% of golfers that have a 4-footer that’s left to right uh at home, whether it’s a member or whatever, are thinking about don’t push it, don’t pull it, whatever it is. And you have to just think about putting a free good stroke on it in your target. So hard, but you got to do it. I’ve got a tournament in 48 hours and my mindset is not there right now. But I’m gonna take I’m gonna report back to you because I’m going to try to take that with me for don’t mess it up. No matter what the club right now, I’m I’m just mental off the tea right now. And even with two iron, I’m I’m bringing trouble into play that shouldn’t be there. And you’re exactly right. I’m not thinking about it the proper way. And uh remember remember your really good good shots and just forget about the bad ones recently. Remember I mean I’m sure you’ve hit one good two iron in the last three weeks. Like somewhere you’ve whether it’s on a range or on a course. Yeah. I mean, think Yeah. Perfect. So, just pretend like you’re hitting a provisional on every two. I hit my provisional iss great, too. I know what you’re I know what you’re thinking. Yeah. Uh so, you’ve played seven major championships. You’ve missed the cut or withdrawn in five of them. The other two were this year. T8 at the PGA, top 10 or T10 as well at the US Open. What changed on the major championship front? And how different is that is are golf tournaments like that? Yeah, they’re definitely different. They’re the most challenging. Um they’re the most penalizing off the tea. Um we talked about my driver and and hitting it straighter. So that’s been been a huge success for me. Um or huge reason for my success in the majors this year. And yeah, gaining the experience just playing against like when you first get on the PJ tour, especially now, like you don’t really compete against the best players on the PJ tour, unfortunately. And like I don’t I don’t want to say too many bad things about the PJ tour because it’s it’s incredible and and it’s a great place to um compete against the best players in the world. It’s the most competition. You create your own stories on it. But when you first get on the PJ tour, like you aren’t playing against Scotty Sheffller, unfortunately, except for maybe one or two weeks a year. You’re not playing against Rory Mroy. Like just the way the signature events are are created, um the major championships, you start at the bottom and you kind of work your way up. And for me, gaining the experience against the top players has just just playing more and more has just made me more and more comfortable. Um, and I’d say my my like rookie year, I had got by the end of it, I was getting into the signature events um, and playing in the biggest ones and started playing in my first major, too. And that was my first kind of taste of of what a what a major is even like. Like a normal PJ tour event, like you can hit in the rough and be okay. And when I first got to Rochester for I think it’s Oak Hill for the PGA, that was my first major. I remember just being so intimidated by the golf course. And I shouldn’t have been, but I was. And I think that’s just one of those experience things. You just have to get over the hump um of of knowing what it’s like. And I’ve just competed in so many events now where it’s like the toughest stage. And I’ve just felt way comfortable and way more confident in myself. and I I feel like I step onto the range and step on the first te and truly believe that I’m gonna going to win that golf tournament and and get in the mix. And so, um, whereas my first couple years, I definitely was like just trying to, you know, get it to the weekend or try to, you know, have a solid finish. And that’s not how you can’t think that way. And I hate myself for like kind of thinking that way back then, but now I’ve just got way more of a winner’s mentality and way more of a I’m ready to to shock the world, I guess. Um, even though maybe it’s not even shocking the world at this point in my career, but feels like it to me. Well, that’s got to had to have paid off at Oakmont then. I mean, if you were intimidated by Oak Hill when you get to Oakmont, you had to just be like, you know, that mind shift. I’ve heard you talk about like the setup there and what it could what it could be like prior to the tournament. I mean afterwards you you finished T10 and did you feel like you had a mental advantage over some other players in the field that maybe psyched themselves out or or maybe had some of that different mentality like you and and Memorial the week before was a really difficult test. Um and that was finishing second there. Um you know I was really bummed to have not gotten it done on on Sunday because I was just I’ve just been super confident in my game. But, um, yeah, I was disappointed there. And I kind of I thought I thought no doubt I was going to win the US Open. And I made some I had a couple short-sighted shots that where I made some mistakes and um I could have easily won that golf tournament. And I’m excited to go back to a US Open next year and get some redemption because yeah, I finished 10th and like you can look at the scores and whatever. I don’t know how many shots I finished back. Maybe six, seven or six or seven shots I lost by. But yeah, I was I was pretty bummed, you know, I knew what it I knew what it took and I was hitting it really great and um I I think I three putted like five times on that Saturday’s round and it just killed my chances. I remember going to bed Saturday night being like so frustrated that I took myself like pretty much out of the golf tournament. But then I kind of reminded myself I can still shoot a four or five under round and maybe have a chance and the leaders can back up. And that’s kind of what happened. But Oakmont was just really difficult that final round. Um, and I probably shot I think I shot like even or one over the final round or something like that. So, I I played fine. But, um, my perspectives have just have just shifted in the in the majors and really all golf tournaments now to where um and you know, I think a part of it’s like what we talked about earlier in the show is is you know, financially I’m in an incredible place and um I’m just honestly I’m just so freaking grateful for everything that I have and I literally have nothing to lose now at this point in my life. like I’m I’m I feel like I’m so set and I’m so grateful and I just feel like I I just have to go tee it up every week and just try to win and get in the mix and that’s all that really matters to me now. Um whereas before especially early on you’re just trying to trying to build a little bit and and whether it’s tournament finishes, money, FedEx Cup points, like now I just feel like especially this year with where I’m at on the FedEx Cup, like I literally have zero to lose. Like so many guys are going to be teaming up these next two weeks. 3M open this week, Windham championship next week, and they’re going to be trying to make the playoffs. They’re trying to get in that top 70 spot, which was me the last two years. They’re going to be trying to like keep their card potentially for the year. And like I’m so far, like I don’t have to think about any of that. I’m so freed up. And um and life’s too short. I’m not going to be remembered for my fifth place finishes. Um you know, I’ve got to go out there and try to freaking win these things. Um and let’s let’s freaking do it. Like that’s all I care about. That’s great. I think one thing too as somebody that has to comment on major championships after every round, the thing that I’ve I’ve I’ve learned as years goes along especially is like the at a PJ tour event if you shoot an opening round 77 like night night like that you’re going home on Friday but like some of these these majors man it is a really long week and you can make mistakes and it is not over and a birdie just means that much more and like especially I know I’m reacting maybe a little bit to Bryson’s run after shooting That’s all I was thinking about as you’re explaining this. Yeah. 77 in the open. I mean, great. He had an unbelievable second round to make the cut by a narrow margin. I don’t mean that, but even guy, you know, Rom has a bad opening week at a at a major and we’re like, hey, what’s going on with Rom and he ends up in the top 10 because these things are these tournaments are just longer. It’s easier to move up the board. Uh, and because everyone is going to make mistakes. I’m just curious if if your patience level uh has evolved at majors and if you’re almost so a little freed up in that way of saying, “Hey, I I have to be actually less perfect at majors.” I’ve heard guys say that and I’m I’m curious if you’ve experienced that. Yeah, you definitely have to be patient and you definitely have to be disciplined and I’m a little frustrated myself this past week because like you can look at my result and say, “Oh, what happened to Ben Griffin? He missed the cut.” Like, “Oh my gosh, Ryder Cup chance is over.” Like all this stuff. And it’s like I actually felt like really good with my golf game. Like I on Thursday and Friday like I went in those rounds feeling really good. And the problem was the first round I was feeling so good that I wanted to just pull driver on the first hole and just send it down there because I knew guys were missing it left and almost hitting it out of bounds. I’m like I’m just going to send a statement and hit driver and just put it in in the fairway way up there and everything will be great. And you’re sitting on that I’m sitting in that first te and it’s like a tunnel. It’s like you got fans on both sides and behind you. You can’t feel the wind, but you look up and you see the flags going hard right to left. And I was in my driver Graange and I’m like, “All right, we’re sitting driver.” Like, the wind’s going to pull left. Like, I just got to trust it. And I’m sitting up on the tee and I’m like, “Man, I don’t feel wind.” And then you start second guessing yourself and then you’re on the first T, the open championship. And then I hit driver and I hit it out of bounds and I’m like, “What are you doing?” Like it’s the first hole like patience, discipline, like you put a two iron out there in the fairway, you’re going to have seven iron, put it on the green, give yourself a birdie look. And it cost me two shots. Sure enough, I missed the cut by one. Like if I if I hit iron on that first hole like and I I clear the cup by a couple and I have a good weekend. It’s exactly like you said. I I could easily finish top 10. Scotty had such a big lead it would have been hard to kind of chase that down, but I could have so easily finished in the top five and it’s just it’s I just got to learn from it. Like I mean it sucks and it sucks looking back and it’s good to reflect on tournaments and it’s good to take time to to think about what I was thinking about on certain shots and um yeah it’ll just make me better by by next year and and just the open championship is such a hard test and you’ve got to be super disciplined and not try to take on too many of those bunkers or too many of the penalties. But when you do make sure you’re doing it for the right reason there’s enough reward for it. like the first hole if I hit a driver really get up there and I have a wedge. Like sure I I can potentially make a birdie, but I can just so easily make a birdie with a seven iron or six like a sixiron with the way the green slopes are. And I just for some reason I thought the reward was going to be way more when I stepped on that tea box and I let my emotions get in the way probably a little bit instead of just putting something out there I knew I couldn’t play. Um sound a little bit like me though like I I like that big club head though on that opening T- shot. Yeah. You know, it and I’m not trying to like blame any of this on like the Ryder Cup and Keegan, but like Keegan’s like he he wants us to try to send a statement to this European team and like play some really good golf. And and I honestly I let that get to my head a little bit of like I’m going to send a statement on the first hole of British Open playing with Straa like I’m gonna I’m gonna pull out driver and I’m going to hit this thing so good. And it was so far out of bounds and I’m like you literally just did the opposite of a statement. And I was I shouldn’t even be thinking about the R. Like I feel like this year there’s been a lot of Ryder Cup talk, but I was for some reason I was thinking about going to that T-shot and I’m like this is going to be amazing. I’m sitting statement like let’s freaking go America. And it it took off so far left and so far out of bounds. And thank God I don’t think Beth Paige has too many OB stakes like that like that the first time. But that’s the beauty. You could tell your captain, you know, hey, let’s let’s move, you know, let’s move these OB stakes. We don’t. I know, right? No, I’ll be fine. I mean, I’m hitting it straight enough. That was just a a bad swing. But yeah, but to answer your question, yeah, patience and um discipline and you have to have that at the major championships and just giving yourself a lot of looks is key. Xander Schoffley is one of the best in the game at just doing that. And obviously Scotty is too, but like you look at some of the best players, the guys have that finished the best in the majors, they’re not hitting the most perfect shots. They’re not being the most aggressive on everything, but they’re just keeping it in play and keep chipping away and and not trying to do too much. And that’s kind of what you got to do. So you you already answered my next question. Have you felt any extra pressure to prove yourself since launching yourself into the mix for for the RDER Cup? I think that would qualify there if you try to send a statement to Seb Straa. Yeah, I mean there’s not really like pressure. Like honestly, all I want to do is just like play really good golf. And if I if I’m doing that, I know I’m going to have the confidence to be on that team and play really well and build up points. But like I just got to keep like the key is just playing really good golf. And you know, I want to represent America more than just about everyone on that team. And I it’s be such a cool accomplishment. Not not only accomplishment, but just a cool honor to be able to do that. And I just want to make sure my game is I want to be like one of the like I shouldn’t say second best cuz like I want to be like the best. But like yeah, I want to be second best behind Scotty on that team and and feel like I’m re really good and in a good position to to win four or five points or how many points. Well, you’ve already sold me. you’d sold me prior and you’re s selling me even harder on uh on your on your candidacy here for but do you have you had conversations I guess with Keegan or with the captains on how you would potentially fit into the team or what the expectations are for for your play from here on out to to be a part of that team. Do you feel comfortable with where you stand? I’m curious kind of where we’re recording this here on on July 22nd. We’re about a little less than a month away from from final picks being being finalized here. Uh, do you feel like it it depends kind of on your play in the next month? Yeah, it just depends. If I try to hit too many shots and send a send a message and create a statement, no drivers off one. Um, yeah, I’m had to iron off one. It wouldn’t have. But no. Um, yeah. I mean, look, if you’re not in the top six, you don’t know if you’re going to get picked or not. And that’s all I can control is being in that top six. I’m I’m right there. So, all I got to do is play good golf and and I’ll get one of those automatic picks. There’s definitely a huge opportunity for some Americans to step up in terms of those captain’s picks because like as we saw with God up, um he’s all of a sudden entered himself into the picture. It’s kind of very similar to what I kind of did um you know, back in the spring is like you kind of anyone can enter themselves into the picture. Like Jake Knap’s been playing incredible golf this year and he’s no one’s even mentioned him at all, but he if if he had a couple better Sundays this year, he’d easily be in the picture and all he has to do is play really well in the playoffs and he could all of a sudden, you know, be a captain’s pick or or earn his way. Um, so there’s a there’s a lot of a lot of guys that could play really well. Like for me, I I’ve just got to play there’s no expectations or from the captains or anything like that. like all I’ve got to do is is try to earn a spot. And if I don’t, um, you know, hopefully I I’ve been playing good enough golf and hopefully I’ll play good enough golf in the in the playoffs to where it’s a no-brainer for him to to put me on that team. But I mean, in terms of right now, you could look at my results on paper and and everyone could form their own opinion and all I can do is control um how I play in the playoffs and and hopefully be in a really good spot with my golf game. Um by the RDER Cup to win a bunch of points. Have you I mean, even being a candidate for the team, I’m curious kind of what uh there’s a there’s a there’s 12 guys that going to be on the team, but it’s a wider group of guys that could be on the team, right? And the process for the RER Cup doesn’t start once the 12 guys are set. So I’m, you know, there’s dinners, there’s there’s conversations, there’s I’m curious kind of what you have gone through personally with the other captains or are kind of in that process of what information they’re giving you, what feedback they’re giving you, what they’re what they’re what they’re kind of doing with you to try to get you in the writer cut mindset or on a mission. Bryson had a, you know, some quotes obviously about, you know, uh, you know, notes left in lockers and, you know, we’re going to go over, we’re going to kick their ass, we’re tired of losing, all that stuff. Has, have you felt brought in, I guess, on that part of the process with the captains and the leadership on if you are going to be a part of this team, here’s here’s our here’s our blueprint. Yeah, totally. Um, yeah, just trying to create more of a culture um, this year. We see it from the Europeans every year how how brought together they are as a team. And I think this year like Keegan’s not joking around with anything like he’s trying to make sure everyone who potentially has a chance on that team kind of feels like they are almost on the team in a way um right now to where they can talk to other players and build relationships and and get close with one another and feel no intimidation to talk to c uh talk to the captains and ask questions about things and so yeah I think right now we’re like yes we’re trying to play all the US guys are just trying to play really a golf to kind of, you know, create some maybe fear in the Europeans of like because I think right now a lot of people are talking about how strong the European team uh kind of looks and I think the Americans we just have to step up and play some really high quality golf leading to the end of the year to to build some confidence. But yeah, I mean there’s no like there’s no like strategies being formed right now. I think the biggest thing that the captains want is just us to have a lot of self-belief that we’re all going to be on that team and self-belief that we’re going to play really good golf. And there’s not much else you can really do. Like after the tour championship, I’m sure there’ll be some game planning of trying to if guys, individual guys want to go up there or go up together with any other guys to go play Beth Paige, go do that. Um, I know there’s talks about potentially, um, trying to get guys to play in Napa, um, as many guys as possible to try to, you know, create a little team trip there with some competitive golf to it. But other than that, I mean, guys are just, uh, focused on the kind of the end of the year and and playing really good golf. It’s it’s kind of hard, I think, as a captain and also as a potential player to kind of put your mind too much on something that’s pretty far away in terms of what else is at stake the rest of the season. Um, you know, for me, I have the Windham Championship next week, which is a an event that I grew up going to. I got a sponsor exemption a few years back and finished fourth. Like, it’s one of the It’s kind of like Scotty Sheffller’s Byron Nelson. Um, to me, it’s it’s one of those events that I’ve always wanted to win just being in in the state of North Carolina. like trying to win that. If I win that, I mean, I feel like whether or not I lock that up on the the the top six, I mean, I’m sure that that that would earn me a spot on the team. But I’ve just got to continue to chip away at the each individual uh competition that I have and then hopefully get to get to the September and Beth page and get rowdy with the fans and put on a put on a show. Yeah. Just keep playing good golf because you want once if you get there too, you want to play good golf while you’re there. like there’s just no path that doesn’t include just keep it’s so repet it’s so repetitive when we say this in this in in this sport of just play good golf and just play better but like it’s it’s the most true statement out there of anything what has been of all of this rise what has been uh the coolest moment or the coolest thing that’s happened to you and I don’t mean just like winning I mean like h you know Tiger Woods came up to me and said this or I can’t believe I’m talking to this guy right now or so and so knows who just what has been something that’s happened that’s just been like holy crap that is really cool and uh it has been really rewarding. Yeah, it’s a good question. I mean, obviously like winning the first uh first one with Andrew was really cool. Just doing that together. Something about winning as a team is just super cool, especially like because it individually obviously it did a lot for both of our careers, but just like doing it together was really special with his wife, my fiance, everyone there all together celebrating like it was a really special moment. Um having um just our our whole team’s there. It’s It’s really special when when you kind of get over the hump and you can celebrate all together. Um I’m trying to think of like an individual person or something like that. That’s kind of I mean just I guess you go to memorial like I had a lot of talks with um Jack Nicholas. I talked to Jim Nance for like an hour one day. It’s just like conversations like that. I mean if you go back to when I was working like I’d be like that’s freaking crazy. like um but in the moment like I don’t really like realize all of it cuz I’m just trying to live presently and but yeah it’s it’s pretty cool like sitting back and just processing this year and and my recent success and um just kind of thinking about how cool it is but man this game just keeps beating you and telling you you got to go achieve more. It’s it’s so hard to sit back and just process. It’s not like like the NBA like you win an NBA finals and you have like this huge celebrating for weeks and it’s just like this whole huge thing. You even celebrate the next year like during the year like you won the NBA finals like with golf it’s like it’s Scotty talks about I mean you’re just on the next week it’s just a new a new competitive landscape and it’s like almost a new season every single week in a way. Um, and that’s what’s it’s so it just it just keeps bringing you back and it’s it’s hard to sit back and think about your success and and and celebrate and and do all those things. But yeah, there’s just so much at stake. I’ve got to go back to and and keep keep competing and try to make the winom and then after that try to make, you know, win the tour championship and then after that try to win the Ryder Cup and then after that, you know, I finally have a chance to kind of settle down and then once next year starts it’s like, all right, how do we win the Masters, you know? Um, what if you fall? What happened to Ben Griffin, man? He had that great finish last year and he’s had a tough first month. It’s I know. It’s unforgiving. Yeah, it’s super unforgiving. And like gosh, so many people even like will ask me like random people I’ll meet like at a restaurant. They’ll be like, “Whatever happened to like Justin Thomas and Jordan Speed?” I’m like, “What are you talking about?” Like Justin Thomas won this year and Jordan Speed’s been in the mix a bunch. It’s like just because he hasn’t won a trophy doesn’t mean he’s like a bad golfer and because he’s 70 on the FX Cup. Like people, like a lot of people don’t realize just again how thin the line is, but also like it’s hard to play like really high quality golf 24/7. And if you go a couple months where your name’s not mentioned as much, people are are like, you know, even like me last week, like, all right, what happened to to Ben Griffin? It’s like, guys, I’ I’ve played one event in like three weeks, like, and I missed the cup by a shot and could have easily made it and finished fifth. It’s just like it’s golf. it happens and you just go to the next and you try to try to get back in there and and try to lift a trophy. Um, it’s a weird sport. It’s a weird sport. It is. That’s what I was The example I always use is like people don’t ever talk about or like will never fully appreciate just how good like the example I always pull is how good Matt Coocher is at golf. like to beat that many people, all the all the mini tour guy, all the mini tour guys, all the Mackenzie tour guys, all the PJ tour Americas now, all the corn ferry guys, all of the, you know, the lower level PGA tour pros and all the top level tour pros for like 20 years. It’s absolutely insane to be that good at golf on that consistent of a basis. And to what to what you’re saying of like how, you know, unforgiving it all is is it’s you know, a lot of people have hot runs and whatnot, but can you can you make it last? Can you like truly elevate your game is uh again something that’s kind of it’s not uh even if you do it’s not recognized maybe in the way that it probably should because uh people just like the big the big sexy splashes and the big trophies and yeah and everyone’s got their own things they’re dealing with whether it’s their their body related whether it’s you know something going on at home home you never know I mean like look at Xander Schoffley this year like sure he hasn’t had as great of a year as he’s had in years past but he’s coming off his rib injury and he’s trying to get back into his proper form and there was no doubt he was going to he was going to get back to where he was like I mean he played very well last week at the open um to I think he finished maybe top five or so but like even guys like that it’s like even can’t for instance like people talk about how being on the BJ tour policy board like can impact your the way you play and like maybe that’s what’s happening with Patrick’s game this year. I don’t know but he’s still an incredible golfer and he’s still one of the best. It’s like he’s still good even though maybe he hasn’t had the the success the same success that we’re used to have seeing him from like the last season or the season before, but he’s going to be just fine. Like he’s still an incredible golfer. But yeah, it’s tough. It’s tough. People want to talk about the the the guy who won that week and um or who’s playing extremely well and then they’ll kind of forget about someone who’s kind of still playing well but just hasn’t quite been up there, you know? Yeah. Uh well, this has been amazing. Last question I kind of had on my list is uh you you’re known for the the big shades that you wear on the golf course. I understand they have a purpose. Uh could you tell us about that one? And do you are they do they work in all scenarios, all lights, if it gets dark, if it rains, is there ever a time period where you’re taking them off and kind of tell us a little bit about uh you know the purpose they serve. Yeah, the main purpose is like so when I get off the golf course and I take off my sunglasses, no one knows who I am. So like I’m I’m just not famous. Um, no. I I got um I have like a little bit of an eye issue. Um, basically my vision’s really bad. And because of that, when your vision’s bad, you have um your eye is not a sphere. It’s actually more of an oval when it when you can’t see long distance like me. So, when your eye is more shaped like this instead of this, your retina, which attaches, it’s used to being like this, now it’s like this. So, it thins out a little bit. Um, so I basically have like my retina was was thinning and I was um experiencing floaters last year. Uh, at high risk of retinal detachment. Uh, I had lattice degeneration is what it’s called. And so I also had retinal holes. I had eight holes in both eyes, which basically means like I had these gaps between my retina connecting to to my eye where I was at pretty high risk if I hadn’t gotten like the laser surgery done to get it fixed. I actually just went back in for a checkup right before the open and I’m 100% good. um at least for another year. And so yeah, the shades just kind of darken the land, you know, um what’s outside. And so when I’m looking up into the sky and it’s super bright and I’m not wearing my sunglasses, like I see all ton of floaters and basically my vision is just like cloudy in a way. And when I put the shades on, it just kind of limits that distraction. Um so that’s why I wear them. Um, but yeah, like it’s it’s hard like the British the Open Championship for instance, like when those clouds come in and it gets windy and rainy, like I need windshield wipers on those things. Exactly. I mean, it’s it’s uh it’s hard. Like that’s that’s probably another challenge for me more than other players. I think I was playing with Asha and he wears glasses, so I’m sure he’s kind of battles some of that foggess, but um yeah, it’s hard cuz like I want to wear them because I I’m used to it. I feel like it helps with my putting the the the brand I use Swing. They’re they’re designed for golf. Phil Mickelson wears them. Um I saw another guy who I think qualified for the Open Championship was wearing them. Um he was looking like me out there. It was pretty cool. And then there’s a couple Rosen LPGA wears them. So they’re designed for golf. They’re really high quality lenses and I feel like they help my putting and seeing contrast and and and seeing those lines better. And then on top of that, it helps with my floaters. Um so it’s been cool to wear them. Um, you know, people make their opinions on it, whether they think they’re cool or not or like the way I look at them. I don’t really care. I like them. And, um, they’ve been, uh, they’ve kind of created this image for me of of what I am out there on the course. And it actually probably does help off the golf course. When I’m not wearing them, people probably don’t recognize me quite as much. Um, what a great walking through an airport. I don’t have to talk to quite although I’m happy to talk to anyone and everyone, but um, it might help with that. I don’t know. Someone mentioned that to me the other day. Well, all right. Well, we’re going to let you go. I greatly appreciate the time and stories. This was absolutely fantastic and congrats on all of your success and uh hope it continues and hope it continues on to Beth Paige and you don’t be afraid to send a few messages out there to to the other team over the next uh uh several months. I’m sure there’s not as hard as possible with the driver that opening T-shot. But really appreciate your time. Best of luck, Ben. And we’ll I’m sure we’ll be chatting soon in the future. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me.
2 Comments
banger 🥃
one of the best golf interviews I've ever heard. Such cool insights that I was always curious about. Definitely a bigger fan of Ben now