Putter Fitting + Q&A With Tyler Fitzel | 2nd Swing Thoughts Episode 60

This episode of the 2nd Swing Thoughts podcast covers the latest news in golf, including reaction to Kevin Yu’s first PGA Tour Win and Rickie Fowler’s equipment update. Plus Master Fitter and AimPoint Instructor Andy Thompson shares his expertise and philosophy on putter fitting, while Master Fitter Tyler Fitzel joins the show for a fitting Q&A session with questions coming in from listeners.

00:00 Introduction
00:42 PGA Tour Reaction
2:45 Kevin Yu WITB
5:19 Rickie Fowler WITB Update
7:19 New Cobra Irons
9:42 Putter Fitting Interview with Andy Thompson
22:33 Viewer Submitted Q&A with Tyler Fitzel

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The 2nd Swing Thoughts podcast, presented by 2nd Swing Golf, covers anything and everything in golf equipment and club fitting. The 2nd Swing Thoughts will feature experts in the golf industry sharing insights and latest trends in golf clubs and club fittings. 2nd Swing Thoughts will also cover the latest in professional golf.

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today Andy Thompson is back for another segment talking about his putter fitting process and we bring in Tyler fitzell for a fitting Q&A that and more on this episode of the second swing thoughts [Music] podcast hey golfers I’m drew mahle the second Swing Golf here today for another episode of the second swing thoughts podcast with co-host Shan Bower here in the studio um going to be another fun one today we’ve got a TW for for you if you will we have two uh different segmented interviews for you I mentioned you have Andy Thompson we have Tyler fitzell both Club Fitters with a ton of knowledge uh but we of course to get started here we have some um kind of trending topics on tour that we noticed uh there’s PJ tour events happening it’s The Fall season uh but these are the ones that are almost more exciting for players getting their tour cards or maybe just getting their first starts on tour yeah there seems to be a lot more at stake for you know maybe some names that either you don’t know quite as well or for some guys who have you know had a you know a rough SE seon or two and needing something um so they’re fun I’m excited for this upcoming week’s one I think is this one is out in Utah yeah you know so I’m really excited to see what that course looks I think it’s the first time they’ve had it out there yeah that’s what’s kind of cool about these events too is they they you know they kind of change sponsors change venues a lot which can make bring for a lot of exciting Golf and uh like you said it means a little bit more to these guys because these aren’t they’re not in the top 50 they don’t have their spot secured in all the Signature Events so to speak next year um in the 2025 season and so these ones in that guard you don’t have the biggest names in the field but um at least for this past weekend it brought for some really exciting golf as well yeah Kevin you I mean that was an incredible finish I mean I know it’s football season this isn’t a Marque event so maybe some people didn’t see it but he makes Birdie on 18 then has to kind of outweight you know Boos and uh Casmir Keith um kind of had to wait to see what they were going to do uh Hustler ends up getting into a playoff with you uh Keith kind of had a rough go there on the hole so then it goes to a a one hole playoff and you kind of sticks an approach shot right into the flag hits the birdie hos wasn’t able to do that so a pretty exciting win especially for your first career win you know to do it in playoff fashion with a big putt just to force a playoff like you know I mean obviously you want your first win to be you know a huge event that everyone knows but I think anytime you win a tournament you’ll take it and the way he did it was really cool how he did it so decisively with the playoff like it was hit the Fairway hit the green five six feet away and make the putt never leaving any type of doubt while Hustler hit his two t- shots in a row 18th regulation and then also 18th in the playoff were both way left and he was over there looking for Relief and all this stuff and uh clearly just didn’t look like a guy who was ready to win that week yeah now you is H you he’s a Callaway staffer pretty much I think all but two clubs in his bag or Callaway you know I think the the clubs that kind of stood out to me Drew looking at this you know the driver you know he’s playing that AI smoke Triple Diamond max you know kind of that club they released a little later that kind of has you know the the low spin and workability of Triple Diamond but kind of with that Max construction you know gives you know players you know especially you know the the more consistent ball Strikers you know something that has you know a touch more forgiveness to it launch but still with that low spin yeah I think it it brings me back to the you know epic Max LS kind of the or the Rogue St Max LS heads where I always thought those were an awesome kind of um driver that maybe gave c a little bit of an edge in that department where a player that wants forgiveness but also needs to keep the spin low and so that’s kind of where this Triple Diamond max comes back and I wonder if moving forward into 2025 2026 if we’ll see a Triple Diamond max type head become more of this you know one of the initial models in the lineup yeah especially yeah it’s it’s definitely I know you’ve tested it out on the course there I know you injected some back earlier this summer and I I have yet to hit it but it kind I mean one I’m probably not a good enough player to be H that kind of driver I’m probably more of a Max guy but uh Jake and I were very impressed with the numbers we saw when we tested so I I definitely think you could play it if you really wanted to yeah and then uh the other one stood out I mean he’s got a fourwood there in there 16 and half degree but uh Srixon ZX Mark I utility now we know uh Scotty sheffler he plays the ZX utilities and he’s had those in his bag for y I don’t know how long but I don’t know if those clubs are ever going to leave but it’s nice to see you know the the newer shrick on make it into a bag too yeah it’s kind of cool I mean the shrick on ZX utility iron win count adds another one it’s not a Scotty sheffler win but uh it’s there must be something there uh to see a guy go away from you know his his you know staff uh sponsor so to speak and put his stck on in the bag for utility iron it means something and so obviously it works goto Club off the te and then of course if you’re attacking a part five clearly he gets uh enough launch and spin on that to to land that ball on the green when he wants to so um yeah definitely an interesting one in the bag there too yeah and then interesting that he’s got a 52 Opus but then 40 his pitching wedge and his Sand Wedge are both Jaws raw so he kind of puts one new wedge in between I’d be curious to hear you know what what he get out of that because it that is interesting maybe it could just be how he uses his his is 52 degree it maybe a full swing club and he’s kind of just gradually getting himself into a full set um but maybe after winning he’s just like no I’m just going to stick with what I got because why change it up right yeah well uh also playing in the Sanderson Farms was Ricky Fowler now we talked about him last week how he was spotted you know with a lab df3 putter we were kind of curious about whether that was going to be the true gamer you know what were specs going to be well kind of came out uh it was in his bag um he was actually playing at 342 Ines so not going with that 38 in you know counterbalance build that he had been with and uh if you go to golf WX they have a some good pictures of it but he has a different alignment Aid than most so you know usually you have like the line that’s pointing down the Target right Ricky goes parallel to the face interesting yeah and I know lab has I mean they have every kind of combination of aim line sight line that you want but Ricky goes with one you know and I I don’t mind that cuz that’s it’s it’s a similar visual cue to actually the jailbird kind what I was thinking and that’s that’s what he used before where instead of going down the line it’s it’s parallel and that way there’s it can actually trigger that like if you you’re misaligned because I don’t know maybe he plays with a line on his ball maybe he doesn’t but in a way you can easily see if your putter alignment is off based on your the line you might have your ball set up to and so um yeah clearly that’s what works for him is having a line parall to the face or the Leading Edge of the putter versus uh the line at the hole which is uh maybe something a lot of golfers watching or listening haven’t considered yet but maybe a something worth trying uh either on their putter or finding a putter that is that way yeah and it it worked I mean he you know for the season he was actually losing uh you know slightly losing about even Strokes to the field in putting he’s ranked 102nd on the tour in Strokes gained well I think he finished like what like 18th in Strokes gain putting gained you know 3. 765 Strokes on the field or 18 sorry excuse me but uh that’s you know that’s that’s a much better putting performance and uh you know with the rest of Ricky game if that club can you know give him that confidence maybe you see him like 2023 where he kind of had a little Resurgence in his game right um and then also in his bag and now this is also uh the uh king cobra uh tours I believe they come out with a uh the black Iron um similar Club just with this black finish but uh they’re really really cool looking but I saw Mr Kevin Craft posting about him on uh Instagram yeah yeah so I mean Kevin’s obviously been he’s a cobra Guy and um plays a lot of cobra stuff in the bag and so he’s always excited too about these kind of unique uh oneoff and especially the black fish it looks really cool um and he’s you know playing combo sets of cobras already um and so yeah it’s it’s cool it’s exciting to see some of that stuff and and I know they’re not going to do a maybe a typical release of these it’s going to be a little bit more limited but um I think this this trend of black irons or black finished irons um you know there’s a few of them out there and they always seem to catch people’s eyes yeah they definitely they definitely look cool I you know I don’t know if I could ever put some in my bag or not I think I’d have to like just go test them out for a few rounds compared just because I didn’t you know I’ve never played with them and yeah the trick I think for for me CU I know there was some there were some years and years ago that came out and the problem was you know the weark on the face would show up right away and so these these ones now as long as that would hold up um over many rounds and it would still have that solid black look to it instead of seeing a weark on the face um that would be I mean I would play a set if I could find that set so I mean that’s like instantaneous feedback though like oh where’ I hit that ball you can see that’s true that’s true yeah that’s a good point all right well uh so that wraps up the turn here we’re going to move on to our first you know featured interview uh you all met Andy Thompson our Master fitter over at Minneapolis last week you know he’s B into aim point you know he’s one of the top instructors in the country he’s also an excellent putter fitter at our Minneapolis store it’s kind of his specialty um you got to sit down and talk with him some more about kind of his fitting process yeah he’s got a kind of a slightly different approach to the putter fitting process maybe compared to some of our other Fitters and again it’s the the putter fitting process second swing is ultimately all about you know getting you into a putter that works for you in your stroke and ultimately you you putt well with u but he has a little bit more of an alignment focused approach that he talks about and why he thinks alignment is you know the most important thing to get started with in a putter fing so we talk about that a little bit and and some more U it was a really good conversation with handy for sure all right let’s see what he has to [Music] say all right we now welcome on to the second swing thoughts podcast we’re back with Andy Thompson for uh another segment we had him on last week to learn a lot about well your your background and and kind of the fascinating way you got into golf and into putting and now today just want to dive a little deeper into kind of your putter fitting process and a little bit of kind of um kind of how you operate a little bit in the fitting studio so to speak so kind of when we talked uh last time we talked a little bit about um or you sort of mentioned your process with alignment and so I’m just kind of wanted to bring that up again and and I guess why to you um is alignment such the you know the number one primary thing and then from there we’ll talk a little bit about some of these other kind of fitting aspects related to putters yeah um really there’s only so many things we can kind of fix with the putter putter fitting and one of the things that we can fix is making sure the the player is aimed at their target um we can also affect like we talked about last time the roll of the ball and getting the ball rolling properly so we can help affect speed control MH but again there’s the three elements you know we got to be able to read the green we got to be able to hit it at that Target and we got to be able to control our speed and through putter fitting um if we can get the player at least aiming where they’re trying to hit it then they don’t have to manipulate the putter to try to do something different to get it to go at the Target and and people do that unknowingly I mean like I said last time pretty much everybody thinks they’re aiming at their target um but most people are not right um and when you’re not you’re going to have a a stroke that it’s got a manipulation to it yeah so do you see that people you know just by switching Putters will just naturally aim or align themselves better than maybe a putter that they already use yeah I mean through David Adell years back I I kind of learned um which Putters tend to aim people a little bit more left what team tends to aim somebody a little bit more right it’s like an 8020 interesting so it’s it’s better than a guess uh so I have a a good starting point of when somebody’s aiming their putter left I have a good idea of what might work to get them aiming at a little bit more right and vice versa so okay once I see what’s happening I I have an idea of some things I can try we’ve got a huge assortment uh on the floor that we can uh go to to pull pull in something else and try something else and give that golfer a better chance to get their ball rolling manipul right cuz that’s I imagine that’s big part of the you know putting nowaday especially when we we talked about in the last uh last time last segment was how putter fitting is kind of undervalued and maybe not a lot of not enough golfers take advantage of it um would you say that um you know of the players that you know maybe you know they do line up right on occasion but so many of them are probably still kind of manipulating things on their own right and then it’s sort of a guessing game from that point that’s kind of what you’re trying to fix yeah I am and and there’s there’s you know there’s a few things to it we want to get the aim right but then we also want to put them in a putter that is going to help make it easier to adjust to now aiming it straight mhm so if you’re aiming it you know a foot left and we get you fit with something that’s now aiming it straight well that stroke that you had may not be helping you now because if you’re aiming at straight now and you’re used to opening the face now you’re going to miss right M so we might want to put you in a different style putter that doesn’t want to go right as much right yeah okay and that’s that makes a lot of sense because we have and and again it’s not that alignment is um you know we’ve talked about of uh how the putter fitting process varies a little bit between some of the Fitters that second swing ultimately the goal is still the same with every fitting yep um but the alignment piece for you is absolutely number one where you’re trying to dial somebody in and you and I’m imagining you know most fittings that you do that’s the the first thing is that first fault that you see in golfers is the alignment um outside of alignment what are some key faults that you see commonly from you know amateur golfers whether it’s maybe putting stroke or maybe it’s simply the putter that they’re using is not close to matching their stroke or what do you see yeah I see a lot of that I see a lot of all of that um so you know from a putter perspective I see Putters that are they’re playing way too long of a putter typically sometimes they’re playing too short of a putter we get you know Society is getting taller I mean we get a lot of people in the store that are 6’3 6’4 6’5 they’re playing a 34 35 in Putter and it’s probably not really what they need they’re stooped over a lot they’re not in good posture and you you know you get the other end of the spectrum guys like myself I’m 5′ n you you know I don’t need a 35 in putter I don’t need a 34 in putter you know so uh getting the right length is is really important and I see that a lot uh the misalignment from the stroke perspective the biggest thing that I actually see um is over acceleration it’s very funny you say that because we’ve had Larry bobka on here several times and that’s the exact same thing that he says he says the most common thing he sees is people they take their putting their putter back maybe tooo short and then they slam it forward and that’s the over acceleration you’re talking about yeah I mean I had had a lesson uh this morning and uh really good player two handicap player has been playing for years I mean I got to the green I I mean I was shocked I was shocked I mean he’s taking his putter back this far on a 30 foot Putt and he was pretty good yeah but he knew his distance control was way off but I mean he’d take it back here and super accelerate into the putt right and it it’s just so hard to be consistent with that yeah so cuz that’s one of the things I was going to bring this up with you and this is a good time for it I guess is these longer Putters whether it’s we talked about kind of off camera counterbalance or you know the broomstick style um it seems like because those are heavier it makes it a little bit easier to avoid that sort of quick acceleration or too strong you see that a little bit and maybe is that one of the reasons maybe you’re fitting players into some of those Putters yeah I think it’s a little harder to do that so uh it doesn’t lend itself so much to just taking it back a couple inches and then right whacking at it um so it’s more of a gradual uh longer backstroke and follow through and I I do think that is uh part of the we the reason that those uh types of Putters have become more and more successful and you’re seeing them out on tour like crazy I mean you’re see uh counterbalance you’re seeing broomstick out on tour and now you’re seeing you know the general public follows what the tourist doing as you know with all clubs so uh you’re starting to see people gravitating towards using those and and we’re fitting those a lot right yeah I mean they’re super popular I’m playing one already so um as am I yeah and then also I wanted to ask about mallets because I’m playing a long part that’s also a mallet um I’ve kind of got this you know know thought in my brain and maybe it’s incorrect but it just seems like with all the technology and the Forgiveness that mallets have it just seems like players should be playing mallets um not that blades are you know terrible and should never be used but it just seems like there’s so much more benefit to mallets if you can kind of get over that maybe that some of them just don’t look as clean maybe as a blade right that’s the thing that we’re always fighting as spitters is is uh folks always want the putter that looks cool Andel to their eye and it you know a mallet is just a lot more forgiving the moment of inertia is way bigger on a mallet it’s always going to be and um they’re just easier to hit you can hit it off the toe you can hit it off the heel high and low in the face and the ball’s still going to roll pretty good um a blade you know anybody can play a blade but are you going to be a get of a putter with a blade you know if you’re playing out on tour and you’re you know you’re putting for two hours a day and right you got a Sam putt lab that you’re using and you know you got a you got a putting coach that’s with you three days a week that’s easier right yeah exactly there’s uh it’s I don’t know I just I’ve just noticed that and even in the putters I’ve tested you know when there new products come out and there’s blades there’s mallets and I just feel so much more stable with the mallets um out there so well as we as we kind of wrap up here I know we got just a couple more minutes and um you know we’ve had you already for a couple segments here so I wanted to kind of not take too much of your time but I just wanted to let the viewers kind of get a look into your bag and the putter that that you’re playing uh because I mean hey what’s in the bag segments are always our favorite and of course from the putter Guru himself here we wanted to get the putter that you’re playing well I just switched this year uh to a lab putter okay and it’s a broomstick style mes Max oh there we go so yeah wow that’s the that’s the super thing about it is that I I was working with one of our other Fitters and uh on his putting and uh he wanted to get a putter fitting and he tried one transformed his whole putting stroke really yeah I couldn’t believe it so I thought you know what might be something to this so maybe other players and other golfers some watching or listening should maybe try that out is what you’re saying they’re pretty cool really interesting well uh Andy thank you for your time uh some really good Insight here into the your putter fitting I guess methods and your uh I guess attack into what a putter fitting is a golfers schedule a putter fitting with Andy he’s going to get you dialed in on the greens uh and then perhaps more from there as well we talked about aimo last time we talked about instruction so Andy’s all things Putters so uh thank you again for your time I really appreciate it thanks [Music] Drew well great conversation there Drew with uh Andy um you know his process like you said is a little different but I think you know it’s kind of like what Tyler fitzel who you’re going to hear from shortly says you know we’re not here to you know make numbers we’re here to help you make putts right so whatever the process is that you’re going to go through to you know get that golfer dialed in with conf you know dialed in on the putter give them that confidence you know that’s the ultimate goal yeah it can be kind of distracting sometimes almost with all these numbers and data that are thrown at you in a fitting whether it is a full swing you know you’re hitting driver irons with trackman or you got the quintech when the putter fitting um there’s all these numbers and then of course we can you know we talk about aim Point there’s numbers involved with that too but um to both of them said you know at the end of the day it’s about making the putt it’s about H holding the Putt in the process to do so uh so yeah interesting to hear from Andy and of course anybody in the um Twin Cities area you know if you’re looking to improve on your putting uh he’s a wonderful person to go to right away for you know and again he can help Beal with any aspect of of putting of course putter fitting and your the putter you’re using is a very big part of that so uh yeah a great resource for knowledge on the putting game yeah well speaking of helping out your golf game we have a little Q&A session coming up here with Tyler fitzell now we we sent this one out to you viewers to you know submit questions that you have you know specific you know whether there’s specific club or a specific you know area of your game you’re looking for it kind of covered all bases um with Tyler so really interesting you know he had some really interesting perspectives as Tyler always does so I think think think you’ll enjoy it and please you know as we as you’ll hear just send us some more questions you have we love to ask our Fitters this ultimately this podcast’s platform is to you know help you you know get more insight into the clubs you want to play anything like that so please ask any questions you have we’re uh we’re open ears here absolutely and the thing with Tyler is is great is you just kind of get you know you almost turn the dial and let him go and he gives you all kinds of wisdom on the game so um without further Ado we’re going to let you see that in action here with Tyler and the q and a [Music] session all right time to go back inside the tour van with Master fitter Tyler fitzell and Tyler we got a good one here for you now normally it’s us asking you the questions well today a little twist we had a bunch of viewers submit questions for you so uh we got some good ones some fun ones uh you ready yeah absolutely all right we’ll start it off pretty simple you know what what gentleman asked what is a good launch angle on a seven iron um he’s looking at different shafts and just wondering what he should kind of be looking for yeah generally speaking uh we we talk about something around 18° as a launch angle is is it’s kind of a middle ground of that we you know if if you’re up around give give or take if you you go up to like 20 degrees it’s not like all of a sudden oh my gosh that’s too high um you know you get down around 15 16 degrees that’s also not super duper low but it also becomes a combination not just of launch but of spin right so it’s one thing to have a launch that’s lower but have a spin rate that’s a lot higher what you try to stay away from is a launch angle that’s lower and a spin rate that’s lower and so there’s a lot of factors that go into whether or not you have spin could certainly be the the ball you’re playing the type of club that you’re playing if it it comes off with more or less um you talk about a say a p PGA Tour average or a highle pro uh would be somewhere in that 18° or about out but generally speaking they have a lot of Spin and so you they’ll even have maybe 16 17° of launch angle but they’ll have a more spin that creates lift so in the grand scheme of things it’s not just how the launch comes off it’s like does the ball get in the air stay in the air um shafts can help a little with that um there that’s what you take something lighter and the the kick is a little bit lower um and that can help increase a little bit more of the launch angle to that uh same with graphite you know depending on the the way they build out the graphite you can get uh launch angles maybe a little bit higher or lower with that too so um shaft selections a part of it the the club itself um the dynamic Loft you know that’s what’s what’s happening while it’s moving versus the static Loft that’s just the loft of the club itself and most most seven irons are most clubs are played with a little downward um attack angle so we’ll get into like delofting a club most clubs that that happens to as uh you’re going down into the ball sometimes we talk about it with a driver is coming up a little bit um a putter is a whole conversation about having the right launch angle on a putter too so man staying with uh golf shafts here we got a graphite vers steel they got an 85 M hour iron swing um just kind of wondering if there’s one way they should lean or the other and then just benefits to both yeah let’s assume that’s a seven iron as well and at about 85 mil an hour graphite for the longest time had uh kind of had this wrap for like it’s going to be for older players slower swing speeds uh we see Elite level players um whether it’s PGA Tour or any of the tours for that matter even the champions tour we still still see uh heavy maybe extra stiff steel shafts on the champions tour but we also see graphite there is um and the same is true as like on the PGA tour we’ve several players are kind of noted for having graphite shafted irons and the idea comes in what you can do with the materials so uh generally speaking at 85 miles an hour you’re you’re going to want to look at the launch condition you’re going to want to look at your attack angles uh the shaft is more about feedback and so like if you’re talking about stiffness I can you can get a graphite shaft to be as stiff or even stiffer than a steel shaft depending on what you’re looking to get out of it so so um I find that’s that’s a really great conversation point when we have people that come in where the swing starts to slow down and they say well me know I might be getting older and I may want to you know get into um graphite shafts sometimes maybe what we need to do is just get into a lot lighter shaft maybe it is graphite great um but sometimes it can just be a lighter weight steel because all the benefits that it has um with your game your swing all right um next question we have yet uh gentleman was wondering for us that are aging and losing Club head speed you know they can’t use these players distance irons but then can’t also use traditional lofted irons because they need that distance so what then what club should they be looking at yeah this is the the question I like to look at it is uh it was framed up really well by that uh that person uh it it kind of comes out of The Conversation Piece it’s like when you start to swing slower the ball flies lower right um higher lofted clubs typically have uh less ball speed because they’re blade style they’re usually solid or a little bit thicker so uh one of the things you’d like to get to get more launch to get more spin you’re going to need Loft but you’d also like more ball speed so it becomes this this actually becomes more of a ball speed issue uh when when the initial velocity of a ball starts to slow down it doesn’t climb in the air quite as fast but even when it’s faster it stays low but generally generally it can generate more spin so it becomes kind of a launch ball speed launch and spin um situation you know looking at a lot of the different U types of clubs on the market the player’s distance iron was trying to give someone the ability to get more distance uh with ball speed but also what they find with with that more ball speed was maybe a little too much launch or spin so they’ve reduced uh they’ve reduced that uh launch angle like in The Loft they’ll take something from a 34 down to a 32 maybe a 30 in some cases now we’re seeing 29s 28s um in Loft so we’re getting the ball speed and in some ways uh it’s just like replacing the number on the bottom so very traditional Loft on a seven iron’s 34 degrees um and now a lot of these many of the companies out there have a 30° 7 IR well that’s 4° and so if you bump up to 4° in most sets today that’s an eight iron and in some cases it just requires you using your eight iron because the ball moves faster but because it has more Loft it it gets in the air um as an end result what we find out is we end up looking at taking the longer clubs out of the bag and I find that you if you look at at the Modern Lofts compared to more traditional lofts we start pulling a five iron out you know players might have had a four iron it’s their favorite Club in the bag doesn’t get in the air comes out of the bag five iron now if my my I have a pretty traditional set of blades so my five iron’s at like 25 degrees maybe 26 I think it might be at 26 degrees um but that’s a six iron in most normal sets so um there’s there’s a balance that you have to start to look look at and when my five iron isn’t creating enough um launch spin hang time if you will then I might have to look at you know what’s the next Club so there that’s where the conversation starts to become hybrids um it normally doesn’t uh doesn’t have you know some companies start to put in more Gap wedges so you’ve seen the addition of more wedges the subtraction of more longer irons um but but it’s how they use uh how they’re used and it’s their usage so sounds good there well we got a fun one next uh gentleman’s playing a ping g400 Max driver he’s wondering why that driver is he says 98% is good per distance and dispersion has everything new that comes out and why can’t anything seem to beat it yeah it’s a great question and um this this kind of goes more to the well we talk about technology and technique uh when if you’re in a place with the technology that you’ve M married up that Tech that technique and it they’re both performing um so let’s say for instance um we put a brand new $600 driver in his hand and it doesn’t perform any differently well if you’re doing the same thing with it if you’re getting the maximum type of ball speed if you’re optimizing your launch and spin you could change all the shafts and lengths and grips and weights and settings you want on something but once you get to Optimal right that’s where we want to be and if you’re there right the next product doesn’t necessarily give you more optimal so there are some legalities and how big you know size-wise the clubs can get ball speeds that can be generated uh thei the waiting uh some of the different features that you can change up with it um I think part of that is uh evident as we look at some of the elite level players uh you know if you take for instance any of the major companies ping Titus tailor made Callaway Cobra Muno like any of them you have players that are are still playing last Model there’s there’s going to be well they have the new technology why aren’t they playing the new one yeah because that technology is still working and it’s still optimal um that the amount of time the you say like seven years of a club that’s been optimal that’s phenomenal I mean think about how effective that’s been to your budget you know you haven’t had to and even if you go test some things say well the shaft isn’t any different yeah it’s not that’s good like that’s that’s a positive um I I know I’m you know kind of caught in that situation between a current model that’s out right now that I’m not necessarily I’m not necessarily better with I’m not worse with it’s not nearly as as as different as the prior model that’s in my bag and has been there for 3 years so if if it’s been there for 3 years and like it’s working or if it’s been there for seven years and it’s working what you can do is you can try the next one when it comes out I just thought maybe you’re going to say because the Ping g400 is goated but you know well the 4 yeah there’s there’s a there’s that’s a great way of putting it I would say every Company still has that goat driver and that ping g400 was one of them yeah without question um when you look at on the at the elite level today uh I’m sure someone somewhere is still playing the 400 but most of them have all moved on yeah and if that takes one or two generations to move on that’s okay and the way that that you know most companies are operating um where they’re putting a new driver out every year you know you can wait a few years you’re not going to get a tremendous amount of difference the other part of that too becomes um like you take for instance the life cycle of the product ping is about a two-year life cycle about um same with titlist they come out about every two years so you’re not being bombarded with something um and I like there’s several drivers of different models where i’ I’d go back and go well that wasn’t as good as the year before and then the next one comes out and it’s like well this is better than both of them well you know great yeah so um yeah uh hopefully uh you update your equipment um but the biggest thing when we talk about fittings is seeing whether or not you’re as optimal as we can get for the technology and the technique that you are all right well next question uh comes going to the putting green here then you uh you know a thing or two about so if he has a putter feels right should they still go get fit for it and how important is versus real in that yeah good question um if things are working well you don’t mess with them uh but at some point right it just it’s it’s not that you can’t be at your best but it’s really hard to maintain your best every single time so it becomes all right well is it reactionary well you know I had a bad putting day yeah well that can happen I’m on a brand new course I’ve never played the greens yeah well you might not make you know all the putts or the flip is true where you don’t putt great on your own Golf Course your maybe your home track and then you get out to somewhere else and go wow I mean I putt great everywhere except at at my track um but I think the biggest thing as you talk about uh A fitting is to try to find um optimization as we talk about it you know are the numbers uh looking good um you know we had Larry Larry tell us the story as we were talking about um uh what live at lunch uh I know weeks ago and he was talking a little bit about Nick price and you know a former world number one incredible player and he was working with him many years ago and he says uh well where’s where’s uh the putter that you won all your tournaments with well it’s just you know sitting you know with a pile of Putters and he said well get that we’ll test it right the numbers are perfect and Nick price is making putts and making putts and says so what’s wrong with this one where did this go you know sometimes it’s it goes out of phase because we get into a little bit of a funk we might not make every putt we might be pushing some and pulling some and speeds off and um you try a different putter uh you could always come in and at least take a look at where the numbers are with it but that’s one thing that I I like to say in in my um putter fitting sessions I don’t chase numbers I chase the ball going in the hole and that is that that can be done so many different ways uh that it goes to the uh the qu the second part of that question kind of real versus feel um how many times have you know you stood behind someone or you’re playing you kind of see them off of the side um I do it all the time and I’m like well you’re lined up you know way left of the hole and you kind of tilt this up and you close the face and go oh man I pulled it well real versus feel is you know really you weren’t lined up on your line you were lined up left of your line and that pull was a result of what you were doing with it right so there is real versus feel you felt you’re lined up real no and that that’s where you would also maybe want to look at um a putter fitting you know see where the numbers are if you’re if you’re making putts and I think the best advice I got a very very very long time ago get a putter put it in your bag and then never change it and if you’re a person who now this is coming from the guy who’s got a lot of Putters like you know 30 40 some um I’m a Scotty Cameron fan you know those who know me know that and uh I’ve I’ll take any one of them out and I have no issues with putting with any one of them it’s to me it’s not the putter as much as it is just the the feel and um so when I’ve St stuck to just one putter one putter only in the bag I putt better like it’s just I have days that aren’t great doesn’t make me want to go change the putter um and then there just times where I’m like oh just I haven’t puted with this in a while try and change this up it’s a different look different feel so you have fun with that part of the game um this one submitted to us on Instagram what is the softest feeling iron that isn’t mauno nor strian yeah soft is really uh that’s that’s an interesting question um I look at it this way when you talk about whether or not something’s soft there’s two ways of doing that one the the softness can be sound so as an example um if you were to take sound out of the equation that’s going to the the how loud or soft something sounds relates to the way it feels as well well so if you start talking about uh pure blades so you talk about a mauno blade or a Cen or you can talk about titlist you can talk about you there’s so many um it’s every one of them may be a little bit different you might find one that’s even softer you might find them that are a little bit harder but a lot of that is the same situation that we talk about with other entities so for instance a golf ball right if a golf ball is a little bit more firm and it creates a little bit more of a click that can create some firmness or hard to the sound of the ball same thing with wedges we’ve had this conversation that kind of goes way back forged versus forgings versus cast you know you put earplugs in a cast club and a forged Club are going to be hard to tell the difference between and uh there are things that some companies do you mentioned Muno they have a copper under layer which really dampens the sound but like even a uh and this goes for all the companies on the market right now they’re looking at Acoustics uh so you take a look at uh clubs that say forged on them right the the idea that someone has a forged piece that’s a piece or a part versus a forging where the whole thing’s kind of stamped out the stamping out piece can be a hard metal for a small piece generally for a club it’s a softer metal so that softer metal trans translates to a quieter sound translates to a softer feel um you know I there’s so many different uh you know conversations we could get into that but I would um I would try as if if you feel like something’s a little too harsh you know grab the earplugs if you’ve got them sitting around somewhere and just try try hitting some shots with something that that might feel harsh and and just see what that does to the feel on that side of it all right um got a little fun one here uh a little different question uh gentleman wondering what are the best products to help kids get excited about playing golf yeah well you know the first thing is you talk about kids getting them into the game and it’s it’s about getting um uh it’s about getting something that that they want and generally for kids color is a huge thing um so they do like to have something that’s colorful and all these companies are kind of basic it off the the the bright colors light colors try to make it um a little bit more you know fun in that respect uh you know like having clubs that are actually maybe all red or green or blue and things so we we see that um the the biggest thing in terms of products is giving them the ability to maybe just try different things right so if you have you know the foam golf balls and you have you know just even a chipping net you have some space it’s golfing doesn’t have to be on a golf course golfing can be just the practice entity of that um could be the putting you could take them to a putting green um you know just H setting up some contests that way um there’s you know hitting at flags and know like some of the things nowadays and you can if you can put something out on the Range and you know let them hit at it I know you seen um kind of like the Inflatables and such doesn’t have to be a big thing just something kind of interesting or neat um but just getting them to kind of get into the game and just allow them to be creative with it you know you know let them kind of figure out their way of hey we we need to get the ball in the hole you know as quickly as we can how do we do that um so from a product perspective a lot of the club stuff is really geared it’s layered towards height and strength um for for our younger players but it’s also about how how you kind of view the practicing part of that so if you can get some of the the tools out there is they they make the little chipping Nets and yeah it doesn’t have to be a real golf ball but you could get a real golf ball and just do that on the Range or chipping areas at some different courses too yeah I remember when I was young it was always just a whiffle ball and then my parents had a bird feeder across the garden yeah so it was always you know that was the water hazard and he tried to had to hit over it and yeah so always had fun that way but I thought that was just a great question CU you know junior golf is is a growing Sport and you know there’s so much information out there it’s nice to you know get a little detail there all right now we got two more questions here for you this is’s another fun one what is another name for hitting it in the center of the club face uh that would be hitting it right on the screws um screws was interesting right where did that come from well it literally came from the fact that wooden clubs had a plate on the face y uh that got taken up again when um was it uh Sim tailor made Sim driver was attached with screws yeah it was the Sim driver I think so um and so now that didn’t take on quite the meaning because the center of the face was in the middle but the screws were out like on the heel and the toe they were like way off to the side so you didn’t you didn’t quite want to H hit those but yeah old terminology on that one hit it right on the right on the screws all right and then final question this one’s going to be a good one cuz I’m excited to hear what you have to say but what clubs would be included in building your alltime golf bag o yeah the golf bag well we’ll start at the top I still have and I’m a fan of the Titleist 975 series of woods so from a driver perspective love that even Fairway Wood is just fine um I had there were several different models even kind of coming out in that in the first year that they release those but uh love love love that still see some of those in play um the technology in that was well that was really revolutionary for uh for the time uh the next right now the hybrids I have in my bag are uh Callaway Diablo Edge tour and they’re um well I know they were somewhere around 2000 and 10ish I think when they got released um I have a very lightweight steel shaft in them and they’re still in my bag I got them brand new way back then um they just haven’t come out that would absolutely they they’re literally the best hybrids I’ve ever played and they’re still in the bag um from irons I’d have to go with a with a a blade set I I think my first set of Wilson Staff blades back in 2005 I got um and I still have them because i’ I played a lot of golf um actually bought another set they’re kind of a progressive so it goes from a a true blade into a cavity back which was just really kind of cool at the time um for wedges I i’ would have to say that the X forged by Callaway with Mac Daddy grooves that that are now illegal because of the size of those grooves not to mention uh there was I had a 64 degree and I love now I’m the wedge magician look it up on Instagram uh I love a 64 degree because with those deep grooves I could kind of hit it anywhere and it would just stop yeah and uh of course as Time Marches On You Know grooves become illegal that was a change um not not a problem love it I think some of the stuff that we have in the market today is as good or if not better them you know spin wise and control wise uh what’s really totally changed is the golf ball I’d say if I go back um I’d say all time I think all time in terms of golf ball might still be the titlist professional it’s like uh just kind of revolutionary groundbreaking at the time it was right before the prov1 that’s when solid core came in Bat was still a thing back then but this was a little bit more durable better longer higher launching like all the kind of the things that Titus was really getting into um with the golf ball um putter yeah putter well the I I’ll make it easy the first Scotty Cameron that I had purchased uh was uh Pro Platinum it was a it’s a Newport midlant and that to me still it’s I still have it still play it uh was the very first Scotty Cameron that I had purchased you know I go back on it the putter leading up to that was a Scottdale answer nickel which talking about feel as we go back on that feel thing that nickel was so soft that you you just really couldn’t even hear the ball hit yeah it was like having an odyssey insert where it was just kind of nothing on it um but I would say that that my Pro Platinum is very similar in that is that that coating that that that he’s got on it um I’ve done that with other putters uh I’ve sent other Scotty Cameron putters to to have him uh put the pro platinum on that’s that that’s the finish that I like and yeah it’s still actually a original just a gamer all righty well thank you very much Tyler that was great got uh got a lot of questions there feel free to submit you know more questions we’re going to have Tyler on quite a bit here um if you want the best way to answer questions or ask Tyler questions you of course it’s a schedule of fitting with him schedule with any of our Fitters as they kind of they can help answer any any of those you know specific questions you have about your game thanks [Music] Tyler all right yeah that was that was fun again Tyler does not limit his knowledge when he we get with together with him uh it’s always a lot of fun you learn a lot from him and of course some of those questions were you know the fun with the uh you know what’s the term for hitting it off the center of the face was a fun one and hitting off the screws is is is one that maybe again these maybe younger golfers don’t understand where it came from so the kind of History lesson there was pretty good I think so yeah if you go if you go see any of our handmade sticks on our website yeah you know you’ll see what they mean by hit out the screws you’ll see the screws on the face and then you’ll kind of get it yeah that’s that’s exactly where it came from and now he did mention that the guy nothing gets past Tyler so like even the Sim driver and stuff so uh pretty cool but and then actually so on Thursday this week we have a uh live at lunch we have moved it by the way we had it on Tuesdays and we’re moving it to uh Thursdays at 1: p.m. central uh he’s going to fit himself for a cobra dark speed driver so uh pretty exciting there and again there’s three models in the line he’s going to hit all of them fit himself for the shaft and it’s going to be live on the channel so join subscribe and then engage with the chat tell us you know your feedback on how his fitting is going um you know critique him if you want to you know he’s he’s open to those as well so that’ll be a lot of fun uh then of course a lot of other fun stuff come on the YouTube channel here too in the next couple weeks yeah I’m just kind of picturing him you know hitting the club in the bay and then being back at the computer too like almost like having Aver yeah true yeah yeah I mean he probably could do that he could pull that off if he wanted to um yeah and then uh one other thing too uh in the next live lunch just getting people prepared uh so the 17th uh on Thursday we’re going to do a comparison of the best seven Woods of the year so seven Woods are becoming super popular um I think more and more our Fitters are saying the this is the gold mine of making that transition from irons to to three wood in your bag or maybe it’s five wood is putting a seven wood in the bag so we’re going to do that for the 17th so mark your calendars for this Thursday the 10th at 1:00 p.m. Central and then the 17th same time uh for some really good live at lunch content yeah should be a good time can’t wait to see both of those and uh you make sure you subscribe to our Channel get the notifications um follow us on on any of your favorite podcast networks and like we said many many times send us questions you know we’re we’re uh we want to help you and that’s what this is all about so feel free to send them in awesome yeah I don’t know what else to say well that’s it here se s Fox podcast we’ll see you next week [Music]