‘THE GREATEST EVER?’ | Luke Littler wins the 2025 World Matchplay, talkSPORT Darts

Harry Durham and Chris Mason react to Luke Littler winning the 2025 world matchplay after beating James Wade 18-13 to complete the ‘Triple Crown’.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the talks with Darts YouTube channel. My name is Harry Durham. I don’t really know what to uh say, what to start with. I us Mason on the line. I’ve not even wrote any questions to speak about the match play because my mind’s frazzled. Chris’s mind is frazzled. He was up there for the entirety of the tournament. I was lucky enough to do two days. Uh got to see the quarterfinals. Get to win prize, Josh Rock, Andrew Gilding, and Luke Litler as well. Chris Mace, I just want to start it off, mate, by saying um I’m not going to say are you rested, are you recovered because no one can rest and recover from Blackpool, but mate, let’s just go straight into it. Right, you’ve played at Blackpool, right? You know what it means to play at the Winter Gardens. Where does 2025 really rank in the best match plays that we’ve ever seen? Well, it becomes a bit of a cliche, doesn’t it? I keep saying how every year it gets better and better, but I can’t remember a better one. I certainly can’t remember a better semi-finals night. It was just it was just remarkable. And the players just continue to deliver. As their schedule gets heavier and heavier and the demands on them are more and more and we from from a media point of view, we expect so much from them and they just they just deliver every time. It was right right from the arc. We lost seven seeds. We lost four seeds in one session, which is unheard of. Um, but that just that’s what happens when you when you put together the top 16 in the world and the best current 16 in terms of form. That’s that’s what you’re going to get, which is why the match play always delivered. We should call it the the post. I mean, the world is the world, don’t get me wrong, but there’s something just so, how can I how can I word this? most special about the match play because it is really the 32 best players on the planet, isn’t it? Yeah. Nothing nothing compares. Not not the I mean the worlds is great but it’s for different reasons that the UK is fascinating. The UK is fascinating because of the draw. Um the Grand Prix is special because of the double star and its history, but the match play and the type of fans you get there and the building uh the history, it just it just ticks every box. It was my favorite place to play by by a mile. There was no like I I was lucky enough to play in three different venues for three different world championships and it’s in the Lakeside special because again it of its history but nothing nothing gets close to the atmosphere uh of the world match play in the winter gardens. It’s just it even even now I get goosebumps going in there you know and I’m just I’m going there to well I call it work. It’s not really work is it? Do you love your job Netherbrook? Um but yeah, it’s just it’s just remarkable that the final itself 5-0 one way then Lindner respond with a session of 5 mil of his own. Um and then they then they went at it how I expected the match to really go from the off. A lot of people felt like this was going to be a steamroller job. Listen, when James Wayne has a day off in between sessions, he he’s a dangerous man. I mean, I woke up this morning and with me being a presenter, reporter, journalist, I I hate getting into this position where, you know, Luke Little has won another major now. He’s done the so-called um triple crown. What more is there actually to speak about him, Mace? Seriously. I mean I the only thing that I could actually put it down to is sheer resilience. I mean going five down in three separate games. So you had the final against Wadey, you went five down against Josh and then we’re forgetting about Germaine Wainer at the same time as well. Yeah. 72 down the the the five margin. And then he had the audacity cuz it could work in two ways of what was it? Did he was it 73 when he bought it back and he said I’m staying? You have to have massive nuts to have self-belief like that that you’re going to do it and he went and did it m but it’s at this point gone. He he’s been doing it since he was sort of 12 13 years of age at senior level at JDC level. Um he has he has so much self-belief. Last year he just rocked up and sort of walked in as if it was any other tournament. this year he was he was he spent a day sort of just mooching about because every venue is different. It’s it’s like where did you go at your toilet break? Where’s the practice boards? Um where did you go pre-match? Where did you go if you’ve made postmatch? And the heat the heat is again that’s another factor. It’s like no other venue. But this year he was up on the balcony and he was he was sat watching and he watched for hours. Um, and then I get the whisper, “Oh, he’s been putting some graft in.” Cuz, you know, listen, he’s that talented and he’s that laidback. I I’ve seen him a few times pre-match and you would you would think he was going out for a for a coffee. He’s just so chilled and he’s he’s got and he he’s got every right to have that much belief because he’s he’s proven, isn’t he? It’s no longer where we’re sort of going, “Oh, wait till you see this kid.” It’s not like a a Nikico Springer type scenario. were going it, you know, it was inevitable. Inevitable that he was well, not inevitable because standards so high, but that’s even more props to him because he’s he’s able to navigate around situations that players like Phil Taylor, Eric Bristo, John Low, um Michael Vanuin, Luke Humphre, you know, they can they’re experienced enough to navigate those situations. where this kid’s still only sort of 18 19 well no 18 months in isn’t he 19 months in um it is it is quite remarkable but a special word for Wadey I mean me me and Wade have similar issues and I know it affected not just my life but my career um I played him on his debut in 2006 19 years ago gave me my ever defeat at the match and he he’s still contending for a world max play title. It he and I understand why he gripes that he doesn’t get enough credit because he doesn’t like just just getting through life is hard enough. Never mind um the toils and turmoil of being a professional sportsman. It is he is remarkable. Literally unbelievable. And it’s the consistency as well. At the same time, over that time period, someone put a picture on Twitter that I saw people chop. If you think about how much Peter Wright chops and changes with his equipment, James Wade has been using the same unicorn equipment, but it may be swapping in a couple of flights cuz I know he likes the good Union Jack on the flights and swaps it out with some other bits and pieces. James Wade has used the same equipment for the last 20 years. I mean, every no matter what level of darts player that you are, you’re always told, and you’d say this as well, you find your pair and you stick with them. If you chop and change all the time, it’s going to ruin your flow and your rhythm. James Wade is stuck with that set of unicorn darts for so long. And you know, it’s paid dividends now. And you know, even though he didn’t win and he’s what has he lost six, seven world match play finals, but at the same time, and you speak about him going unnoticed, do you think now that he’s probably going to get another call up for the Premier League? Uh, I would hope so. I I mean, prior to the match play, he he was right up there in in terms of top eight in sort of the predicted rankings, the all the metrics. He won a pro tour about a month ago. Um, yeah, he’s he’s he’s fabulous and fascinating. I I I I love the complexity of James Wade and it was great to see all the fans on his side this week as well. He got that’s probably the most support I can remember ever getting. But that is another uniqueness of the match play. They’re they’re you know they’re there for the darts and a good time but the darts does take precedence and yeah I think James doesn’t like changes and that and that’s that’s normal with his with his specific sort of mental health issues. Uh for James it’s all about what he knows. He he doesn’t deviate in his style either or his counting. Everyone sort of moved on with their accounting. Now James made I’ll keep it. I’ll keep it simple. It It served me well and um yeah, God bless him. I’m a huge uh a massive friend of James, but uh a huge fan. Um just just because I know what he has to deal with and go through on a daily basis just just living a well say a normal life. But um yeah, great story. The whole thing would have been lovely to see James win it. he was the youngest winner and now he’s he’s sort of lost that title to the youngest winner. Um and and it it was fascinating. I was talking to someone yesterday about it. Eric Bristo and and James became fabulous friends quite late on in James’ career and it it it’ be almost similar I think with what he will do with with Litner. I think he’ll sort of um take him under his arm and he was in the practice with him on uh practice room with him semi-finals night. He was like come on get up let’s have a practice and yeah and that’s that’s lovely because you know that it’s important that the the the and it is a massive generational gap. You know they’re they’re both generational great already. you know, one at one at 40, all the other one at 18. It’s quite bizarre, but um I I can’t think of another sport that really gives you that. Maybe snooker where you think of the class of 92 and there, you know, Mark Williams especially. And um yeah, it’s probably snooker. the only time you really have that huge gap, maybe golf when when Tiger was was tearing it up as a youngster, but it it’s just the sport is in such a fabulous place and you know, you walk you would know you you’ve been around it and you see all the all the sort of senior people within Maproom and PDC and all week they were just they were just glowing. And then and then we had the we had the JDC girls final. incredible standard. Incredible. Disappointed they didn’t put that on between the semi-final and the final, the women’s. And then another great story, the sort of one thing missing from Lisa’s resume, the the women’s world batch play, and she she pops up and gets that. Although a little bit fortunate, it has to be said. Yeah, but you need that fortune, Mace. Come on now. Um, a record that you didn’t mention which put a good smile on my face and I’m actually seeing this man tomorrow is uh Adrien Lewis. Uh, Luke Little actually beat his 180 record and Adrien Lewis was bought into conversations during the week as well because obviously Gary Anderson doesn’t like it when the players are wearing their earphones headphones and they’re boring their on their phones. I mean, it’s all part of a different generation. So, I’m very excited to see what Adrien Lewis’s takeaway is going to be from that. I’m not going to ask AD if he’s coming back because I mean AD’s got his own reasons and personal reasons for not being on the ock so we respect that and I’m not going to be asking him stupid questions like when are you coming back to dance because you know I’m not looking for a scoop or a story out of AD. I was thinking like last night obviously we think about like natural like natural players is obviously Taylor what Taylor won what Taylor won. Adrien Lewis Gary Anderson has a story of picking up uh three darts and then in his his second throw he hit a 180. I don’t really know the truth about that or if it’s been uh if it’s been if if that was a fantasy in which Gary lived up in Scotland. Do we actually think that Luke Litler and I’m not I always try and expand these questions because I don’t want to say like because I know we all know how special Luke Glitler is and that’s someone that’s not doing their research because he’s a multi-time major winner for goodness sake. Is he the best natural darts player that that you’ve seen potentially in your lifetime given the span of how everything has worked out in these last 19 months and winning all these majors? I think some people are born with a a certain ability, maybe a superior hand eye coordination, but um I my my favorite phrase hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard and um he is he has applied himself. It’s like anything you if a kid has an interest in something they will they will excel. they just will because they I was the same. I couldn’t I literally the only time I wasn’t playing darts was when I was in school and that wasn’t very often. Um it it got to a stage that the only way they get me in school is if they put a dart board in a in a common room and then I would go outside of that. I just wasn’t interested. I was I was bunking off and going down to snooker where my sister was the manager and they had a dart board down there and that that was it, you know, that that was that was it. If you if you see some of the pictures that um Luke’s mom puts up and videos when he was three years of age, you know, or even in a nappy throwing with a dart on a on a chair. Um and that’s what that’s what it takes. No one no one picks up a set of darts and becomes world champion. It’s it it’s graft. And even listen, as talented as Gary is, you can tell by his game when he’s grafting and when he’s not. And Luke’s been guilty of that this year. You know, there’s been some there’s been some offcolor performances that sort of mate and I thought I have a little dig and I find out he’s not really been playing much. He’s been busy doing other stuff which he’s entitled to do. Um he owes Darts nothing, you know, and Darts owes him nothing. It it’s it all comes down to a mutual relationship where you both have to work hard for Xer’s success. And I mean he is just just rem as as is Adrian Lewis and he is coming back because he’s playing he’s playing pairs with we play modus pairs and hey and what a what a lovely guy to be playing pairs with in your sort of first televised game back. Um yeah I chuffed a bit to see 80 back. He’s another guy I’ve got all the time in the world for incredible talent. Genuine genuine lovely guy. Um, and we had some we had some cracking games back in the day. My my highest average on TV was against AD. Yeah, AD. I mean, I I love him to bits whenever I get the chance to spend time with him. But yeah, Modus, that’s where Adrian will be returning. I mean, yeah, no questions about going back to Q score or anything. Just let AD do what Adrian wants to do. Um Chris, just to finish off, mate, um something that you said about obviously we knew that Luke Little was at the venue, sat on the balcony watching some of the play. I mean, he’s gone on record to say that he doesn’t practice a lot, but how I know obviously it’s not the PDC order of merit anymore. It’s the uh it’s the rankings, the standings, whatever it is now that I I need to say it carefully otherwise I’ll probably be put in a darting jail which obviously dart in jail which was a good comment on uh I think I was actually on Sky. Oh my god, it was on Sky last night so I shouldn’t mention Sky. Sorry for the plug. Um what um how how scared should the rest of the players be with Luke if he is actually going to be putting those hours in now? I think I think that’s probably the only difference between him maybe dominating. I I think I don’t think anybody will dominate per se like we’ve seen in in years gone by, but I think I think he has the talent, the ability, uh the mental strength because the mental strength he showed this week was was above and beyond. He’s just he’s just so special and he and he’s he’s a joy to have around. He’s humble. He’s couldn’t be any more ordinary. He’s just a normal 18year-old lad who happens to be one of the most incredible dark players we’ve ever seen. I don’t think anybody fears anybody in darts anymore, which is why I think we see so many shocks or as people like to sort of make it dramatic. Um, nothing’s changed. He’s just the he’s just now the the youngest ever world match play champion and he’s just going to go on this course of ticking off tournaments and then and then we’ll see where his ambition is cuz his ambition right now is just to win everything once and um he’s going to do that. Mace. Um, I said that was a final question, but I’ve actually got one more because I forgot about one man who I actually spent a little time little bit of time with up in Blackpool. Uh, the man, his name is Josh Rock. Um, I’ve actually had like I’ve interview I’ve interviewed Josh a couple of times just over like Riverside or Zoom like we’re speaking now and we had a little chat in the village hotel. I didn’t want to bother him because it was ahead of the game with Gzi and me and my brother were having a little throw in the village hotel and all of a sudden Josh just comes up and goes kiss Chucky a direct Harry and then uh this is this is hours before he’s playing Gzi and I’m just like oh my god like not if if this is like the fears that go through someone like me like my head is just like if Josh somehow picks up my dart and then all of a sudden gets dartitis or does his elbow or something like that. I I I was speaking to Jim, one of his uh managers, and I was like, Jim, if anything happens here, mate, or if he gets like demolished by GZI and doesn’t even pick up a single leg, this isn’t my fault. This isn’t my fault. I’ve got Northern Irish family for goodness sake. I can’t be stopped getting into Belfast airport to go and see family. What an unbelievable journey Josh Rock had. I mean, he’s got it all. He’s a lovely kid. I mean, I was speaking to Scott Williams and I was like, you know, I’m I’m scared to go and speak to Josh because I don’t want to bother him. And he’s like, he is just a normal kid from Balamina. And you know, to to just be chilling in the hotel and then eating this food like any normal person and then just comes up to you and asks you for a little chuck. I mean mate the 164 I say that we the two best shots that I think we’ve seen in darts this year is the 171 which I always go on about in the World Cup by Josh Rock and I think that 164 to knock out Gizzy of the World match play is up there as well. The sky is the limit. He said he wanted to be right up there with little at the start of the year. I mean for what he’s done already I mean the Premier League is not the be or end all for a lot of fans and a lot of players as well. Josh Rock, Matt Porter make it happen please. Yeah, that’s what I ask. I I think he was in with a great show. His is now manager Rap was looked after me for years and years and years. Um, so I got I got a good good relationship with Josh. And after he lost, I actually spent about three hours with him back at the village. And um, listen, he was he was he was rightly gutted, but also rightly proud of his achievements. And uh, I think he’s nailed on to be in the Premier League. He’s young. He’s quick. He hits lots of 180s. He goes for his shots. He’s great with people. Great to interview. He he ticks every every box for me. And I I I remember being down at my end when he won when he won the World Youth. Um and even then I’d looked at him and I thought, “My god, this guy’s good.” Like literally ridiculously good. I think there was too much expectation and too much pressure sort of year one, year two. Um, but he’s matured, he’s got a family, he’s married, um, super happy, making a few quit and ironically comes from a a place where one of my best friends come from, Jeff Wy, who I traveled with for years and years. So, we got we got plenty in common and we got lots of mutual friends and he’s actually going to he’s actually going to be coming down above at some at some point for just a a normal weekend off where he he can just sort of just chill and watch a bit of sport on the TV and and I’ll um I’ll show him the the scenes and the sights of that poor boy man. is a he’s a wonderful fella uh with a huge future ahead of him and listen sky the limit I think with Josh Rock he’s proved that this week u produced some remarkable darts was involved in the best leg ever and I don’t know what them lot are going on about uh because there was no missed darts in this one it was it was clean throughout yeah I mean Michael versus Michael it was good because it was the height of the final and you know what It meant at the same time Alexandre Palace but you know Josh Rock averaging 180 was just absolutely absurd mate I’m going to let you go I’m going to let you go mate back to normality mate and we do it all again next year up in Blackpool but we got so much more to come and that’s why dance is so special ladies and gentlemen please remember if you’re new here do us a massive solid subscribe to the channel just down below Mason the team absolutely smashed it up in Blackpool they bought us they didn’t buy us they bring in 2,000 new subscribers ers. That’s just how powerful this channel is. And do you know what? I’m not saying this is an arrogance thing. We will be number one. We will. Ladies and gentlemen, please like and subscribe just down below.