OKC Set Up For Dynasty? How High Can Wemby Lift Spurs & LeBron’s Future | The Hoop Collective

Brian Windhorst is joined by Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss the Thunder locking in Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren long-term including how this sets up OKC with a strong chance to repeat before diving into the top restricted free agents remaining on the market. Then, the guys dive into the state of the Lakers including LeBron’s future with the organization as it becomes Luka’s team.
0:00 Intro
1:03 OKC locks in big 3 long term (J-Dub & Chet get contract extensions)
17:53 Wembanyama cleared to return from blood clot (what can spurs be this season?)
32:03 Top Restricted Free Agents Remaining
36:42 Where will Quentin Grimes land?
39:29 Expectations For A Josh Giddey deal
44:53 Jonathan Kuminga Contract Negotiations
49:52 Interesting Transition time for Lakers (What is next for LA?)
59:06 Quick Headlines Around The NBA

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Hello and welcome to Collective Podcast. We talk about the MBA which we’re doing on Monday afternoon and Monday evening very late in Lisbon, Portugal where Bontemps has returned completing his four trips over the Atlantic in the last week to make sure he could be at the live show. Mr. Bontemps. Hello everybody. And joining us from Los Angeles where he’s relocated from Las Vegas, the Mavericks announced the Cooper Flag was done playing in summer league and that meant Ban McMahon was done being there himself. Howdy partners. Looking forward to a spirited summer edition of the Hoop Collect here. Well, that’s what we that’s what we deliver. Okay, so we had a great time at the podcast over the weekend. Thanks everybody who came out. If you uh got to see it or listen to it on the various platforms, I hope you enjoyed it. We uh really appreciate uh Alex Rodriguez and Mark Lori from the Timberwolves and Nick Nurse from the 76ers for joining us and the course of machine Kevin Pelton. And there was some business that was done over the weekend. Um uh you know, pretty significant business for the league. You know, summer league, there’s a lot of uh young guys playing. There’s some interesting story lines and those develop. But there was big business done over the weekend. the s the Oklahoma City Thunder officially signed both uh JDub Jaylen Williams and Ched Homegrren. I think Homegrren actually signing took place on Sunday uh to brand new maximum contract extensions and uh with the Shay Gilis Alexander extension that took place uh um I think he signed it last week sometime too. Um but over those seven days they locked in their championship core for the next five years. The contracts have no optouts, um, which is, um, obviously something that the Thunder wanted. And they’re going to be expensive. There’s no doubt about that. Um, Sheay signed what was the largest contract on average annual value in NBA history until Devin Booker officially signs his contract, but it’s going to be over $70 million a year in value. And um Chad Homegr and um Jaylen Williams both got max contracts, 25% max, the quote unquote fund max that uh is not so fun in the new CBA with the second apron. So Bontemps, they’re going to be an expensive team. Um that’s the reality, but couple of things here. One, the Thunder are not going to be paying them that big money this upcoming season. Homegrren and Williams remain in their current, you know, rookie scale contracts. So, not only will the Thunder not have any sort of money crunch as they try to defend, but even uh they probably won’t even pay the luxury tax, I don’t even think yet again. So, they have a potential to compete for a championship without paying the luxury tax. And because they haven’t paid the luxury tax, they’re they haven’t even started their repeater um um you know, clock yet. So bond tempes, while this is definitely going to bite into them, and this is what the new CBA is designed to keep a team like this from being able to stay together for the long term, this is really good news for the Thunder to have these guys all under contracts with no player options. Yeah. I mean, having three under, you know, I guess Chase is over 25, but under, you know, 26 and under star level players under contract for the rest of the decade is a pretty awesome place to be. and and yeah, like they’re going to have some real decisions to make going forward after this season. We’ll see um what is it? Argentine’s future is in OKC, what the Dort’s future is in OKC, what a case uh eventually what a Casey Wallace extension is going to look like in OKC. um you know whether they’re not going to be able to keep everybody on this team, but you look to try to find guys like Chigel Alexander and Jayla Williams and Chad Hongren, they all showed that they could be part of a team that can win a title obviously over the last couple months. And you know, I mean, as McMahon has talked about a bunch, Chad Hongren spent most of last season either injured or recovering from being injured and never really was at full strength. and before he got hurt, he was looking like he was probably their second best player. And that’s on a team where Jaylen Williams was a deserving AllNBA player, had a 40 piece in the finals and did all that while dealing with a wrist injury throughout the playoffs himself. So, you know, we spent the last I don’t know year at least talking about how great a situation the Thunder are in and getting these guys locked up is uh just one of many reasons why that’s the case. And I suspect they’re going to be able to weather the financial storm coming pretty well, too. Yeah. And and Dub did get Supermax eligibility in his contract. I like his odds. He was AllNBA this year. Um, you know, certainly did a lot to boost his reputation during that playoff run and would think he’s going to have a good shot at being AllNBA again next year, especially with some of the other AllNBA candidates. Uh, unfortunately not going to be able to play next season. But you hit the two guys who are going to kind of be the first pressure points as far as like the the long-term financial picture uh of the Thunder and you know it’s Lou Dort who I believe is that a team or a player option for Lou in the last year of his deal. It is a player option. It’s a player option. So team option for both he club option. You’re right. Team option. Okay. That’s what I thought. Okay. So Lou Dort club option at 17.7 million for 2627 and then Isaiah Hartinstein at 28.5 million. But again, we’ll see what happens there. But the point is they’re making their difficult decisions will start at, you know, the fourth, fifth, sixth spots on the roster, not first, second, third. They’ve got those three guys locked up long term. And and then, you know, Sam Prey’s done a great job of using some of his first round picks already. He’s got a just a bundle of those things to come. But you look at Kase Wallace now. I think Kase Walls is going to be positioned for a pretty nice contract himself, but he is a potential Lou Door replacement if it if it doesn’t work out to where Lou will be there long term. And I don’t think it’s out of the question that that you know Lou could end up be there being there for years to come. Same thing with Hartinstein. They just drafted this big guy out of Georgetown, uh, Thomas Sorber, who, you know, long arm, shot blocker, nice passer, very Hartinsteinesque type of player. We’ll see uh if after his rookie season he’s a a rotation candidate or not, but that the whole point of of Prey having so many picks and continuing to kind of push those picks into the future is to be able to manage the payroll when some of these tough uh decisions come up. and he’s he’s got so many swings at it that they can afford to lose some rotation players and you know still be able to put a championship caliber supporting cast around their their three stars. Yeah. So let’s let me go over the the raw math. So this upcoming season 2526 Shay uh Homegrren and JDub are going to cost about $59 million between the three of them put together. 59 million. All right. That is the value of that is insane. So, so that that’s what we So, next year 2627 when the when Chad and and um JDub’s new money come on, the three of them are going to cost about 120 million. That is still for three star players very very good. You know, for example, in that same year, um Tatum and Jaylen Brown are going to cost a little bit less than that. you know, two, you know, two studs, but three versus two. Then in, and by the way, in 26 27, the f the the sort of the first big cash year for all three of them, Homegrren and JDub are actually going to be making more than SGA slightly because that’s going to be the last year of SGA’s legacy contract, the last year of the fund max. So that’s actually that’s actually amazing. Then the supermax kicks in and he gets a $20 million raise and in 2728 the three of them combined will earn $150 million. So that’s where you know that’s where the tough choices come in either way. and and and they and they will be in trouble. Not trouble, but they will have challenges about resigning guys between now and then the role players, but still the next two years they’re still at at at discounts. So, they can compete, you know, for championships with these three guys and probably still be able to outfit the rest of the roster for the next two years. You know, this is the thing that happened, Bontemps, with the Celtics. The Celtics as they were signing these guys to big numbers, they still saw themselves having a window before they got squeezed. And and in year two of that sort of three-year window, they won the title. In year three of the window, unfortunately, Tatum got hurt, but they had a team, a 60- win team that was favored to win the to win the championship, and then they obviously things went sideways on them. But yeah, but that’s where the Thunder before the Thunder sort of have the pressures that the that the Celtics just had. Um they will still, you know, have two more seasons. And what the Celtics didn’t have that the Thunder are going to get, as you guys mentioned, are other teams draft picks between now and then. They’ve already got other teams draft picks. you know, the the the Celtics were drafting guys in the in the late 20s, you know, um uh the Baylor Shyman’s of the world, whereas the Thunder are bringing in lottery guys. They’ve got two lottery picks in this year’s will be rookies this year who have yet to play. Uh maybe neither of them will work out. I don’t know. But um but that’s where they’re different. So, while it is definitely a challenge, this is something to celebrate. And no team could possibly be more ready for this than the Thunder. Maybe they won’t win the next two years. You mean there’s a lot of different variables that you can’t predict, but they are very well positioned. And this year alone, I mean, in in two years when Sha’s salary kicks in, when the new supermax he just signed actually kicks in, he’s going to be making 60 million. Okay? Earned every dime. This year, the three of them will earn 59 and a half. Well, and think about the profit they’re going to be making, right? Well, that’s as a team not paying luxury tax. So, you’re getting luxury tax payments and they just had I I don’t know how many of the uh I think it was 12 of 23 playoff games or home games, something like that. A ton of home playoff gates. I would anticipate they’ll get a lot of home playoff gates uh next season as well. And then what happens in 2028? They’re opening up a new arena. You think there’s going to be some revenue generated from that new arena that is costing uh Klay Bennett, the Thunder owner, a grand total of $50 million? I mean, he’s paying less for the arena than he’s going to be paying SGA’s salary. That’s true. It was also interesting on this topic. Um, it flew under the radar uh during the finals, but Barry Traml, our friend from the Tulsa world, had a story, I believe it either ran right after the finals or during them, that insinuated that, not even insinuated, had sources telling him that sometime in the somewhat near future, the Thunder will be sold. um which in concert with how fast the teams uh how fast the valuations of teams around the league are going up. It also would be reminiscent somewhat of what happened with the Celtics who had a very expensive team and sold the team as it was getting very expensive and as hard decisions are going to have to be made about uh payroll and potentially losing guys off teams that’s a championship level team. now wasn’t he did not say they’re the Thunder are going to be sold today or tomorrow, but it it they have been a remarkably stable organization the entire time they’ve been in Oklahoma City with Clay Bennett essentially handing the keys to Sam Prey and saying do your thing and I’m not going to get in the way. And that will be very interesting if that does come to pass. uh both the timing of when it happens and also who takes over um because you know they have been in many ways a model franchise for their tenure in Oklahoma City and we’ve seen a lot of new owners have a lot of impacts a lot of places and it’s just something bears watching a little new owner syndrome we’ve seen it we’ve seen it a time or two I would say I would I I would hope there’s not a new owner syndrome situation uh if you’ve got a potential dynasty on your hands. I would I would hope you maybe would trust the guy who’s built that and has positioned it to be uh an extended window. Well, I will say this, let him work. Monte does bring something interesting up. Out of everything that we just discussed, I would say everything is all green lights for the Thunder. despite you know the things that we know ch you there’s a reason you know but bond temps wrote a story at the end of the season about how the thunder are in position the better team is as good as team as we’ve seen to buck the trend of seven consecutive um different champions that you know in a dynasty a largely dynasty proof league bontemps laid out as some of the stuff we just did here why the might be able to overcome that trend um and we just said all with all the money they should be able to afford it and be Okay, that report that that um Barry Traml put out and um to my knowledge that was nobody disputed that. At least I didn’t see a dispute. Um but the quote he used is that quite likely they’ll consider selling the franchise in the next few years or the near future I should say. That was probably more relevant than any of the other stuff that happened with the sales because you just don’t know what would happen. and the Thunder. Klay Bennett is the Thunder’s governor, but the Thunder are owned um I think there’s three businessmen that own roughly the same percentage. They all own the same percentage. Um Klay Bennett has the control share. Um but um you know there’s other things at stake and all of them are over the age of 65. And in the case of the Celtics, the one of the in addition to how expensive they were going to be, one of the driving principles for the reason that the Celtics were being sold is that um Irving Grusbach, who is the controlling owner, uh he owns the largest share. His son Wick is the governor, um is 90 years old and he’s doing estate planning and he also knew that with the new media rights deal that um franchise values would be very high. So they took he took a championship team with high franchise values facing state things and that’s what led to it. But all that is to say if you’re an NBA team and you know you’ve you know you’ve been hearing um a lot of stuff about second apron stuff. Um and you may be thinking to yourself, well that’s got to bite the thunder in the next couple years. I don’t think it’s going to. And the reason is number one that Sam Prey and his staff have drafted very well so that these young and develop these young players are good before their salaries balloon. And also Sam Prey had three years to evaluate how to manage the second apron coming in and he managed it well like with the contracts he signed Lou Dort and Isaiah Hartinstein too. So, well, and and and other contracts, you know, Hartinstein was highest in year one, then flat the next couple years. Um, uh, Isaiah Joe is a is a descending deal. Um, Aaron Wiggins is a descending deal. Uh, Jaylen Williams, the center, is highest in year one, then then flat. Same with AJ Mitchell, the guard. Like, none of this stuff, none of these, you know, concerns are are like catching Sam Prey off guard. He’s been plotting and planning for years and you know these things like maybe it’s a little bit more expensive than anticipated because I don’t know if as he started plotting and planning he anticipated uh Jaylen Williams the the wing being potentially getting a super max. Yeah. Yeah. But pretty good problems to have. I will say this, um, Paulo Bancero signed his, uh, max contract with the Magic last week, and he was the first player in three years to get a player option on a max contract, a rookie scale max contract. Um, and that trend got halted by the Thunder. Homegrren and Williams uh, got halted. Also, um, one minor thing, Chad Homegrren does not have the escalators in his contract. So, were Chad Homegrren, for example, to win defensive player of the year. You win defensive player of the year, you become supermax eligible. This just happened with Evan Mobley. Moy signed his extension. He got a defensive player of the year escalator in it. Um, he wins defensive player of the year. He also made all NBA so he would have gotten it that way but um uh the Cavs have to spend a lot more money. Um Chad did not get that. So for the Thunder to get no options even though Vancero had you know in theory set the tone for that class um they they did get those quote unquote wins but um ultimately they’ve got rings and that’s the most important win of all as as we know here. When you win a championship, it means never saying you’re sorry. And if they have to say sorry in three years because they paid these guys big much, they’ll still have the ring on the banner. So, what if you win multiple championships? You can say a couple more things. Yes. Uh we had some uh good and interesting news on Monday. Um Victor Wyama told Lee in France um that he had been cleared over over the weekend. Actually, Friday, he was uh I believe McMahon he was in Las Vegas, right? wasn’t he at these games? Oh, yeah. I know. He just walked right in in the uh you know during that game and big guy. Can’t really miss him as he’s walked in courtside seat. Well, he apparently saw the Spurs medical staff in Vegas just back from Tokyo. He’s made two trips to Asia this offseason that we’re aware of. I mean, um one to China and one to Japan. He was uh dancing in a Japanese club last week. I saw some video from that. Um but anyway, the point is he has been cleared to um uh he has been cleared to resume basketball activities. Uh now wasn’t he doing like bicycle kicks and stuff? Yeah. So look, I don’t training with monks. Yeah. I don’t exactly 100% know all of the stuff. So, I’m not going to, you know, say I would say this as somebody who had a blood clot years ago, typically you would not be able to be cleared for that stuff if you didn’t if the doctors weren’t pretty sure you were not going to fall and have internal bleeding. So, as you were returning from your blood clots, were you doing bicycle kicks? I have I was able to cut those out of my uh my routine. So it was hard but um but so my guess is he had already been um in a good spot from you know potentially off blood thinning medication. Yeah. But um you know he he has been vague about whether he had surgery for this or not. So maybe he’ll clarify that later on. Um the Spurs from the start were confident that he would be cleared to return. So this is what’s important. He has been cleared. he’s going to be able to start playing basketball again, which McMahon is good because it’s only July. Like, he shouldn’t be able to get, you know, I’m sure they’re going to be careful with him, but he should be able to get several months of court work coming into the season. So, I’m sure they’ll, you know, not let him play 48 minutes, but sure. Two and a half months though of of, you know, real offseason basketball work. Has there been any clarity on uh his potential participation in Euro basket for France? That is a really good question. Um uh now um Bonteps mentioned last week um that Chris Absoringis uh re reaffirmed he intends to play for Latafia. Latafia by the way a sneaky contender to win. Yeah. At least to be a good spot. Yeah. Also the final four is in Latvia. Ah, I didn’t even I knew it was in three different countries. I knew it was Poland. Well, yeah, the group plays in in different spots, but the the uh final rounds are in Lapia, so you know, some extra motivation for Zingis to play. This would be Wimy’s Euro basket debut. But whether he plays in that or not, obviously great news that he’s going to be uh in basketball activities for two and a half months heading into camp. um no reason to think anything other than he’s going to be uh you know ready to roll and and you know in great form come the start of the season and the Spurs are a very interesting team. You know I don’t know what the overunder would be. I don’t know if we can go a little double or nothing. I believe I’ve probably chipped away at that dinner bet despite the uh you know the the fact that Wimby not playing 50 games waved it off. Um, but they’ve got some really interesting pieces. Um, obviously made the big deal for Darren Fox, Stephan Castle, rookie of the year. Stefan Castle, rookie of the year, I should say. And uh man, bond tempmps. We were in the arena the other day for the little bit of summer league a action that Dylan Harper got, but it was a pretty pretty good whatever it was 18 19 minutes of action that, you know, lo and behold, the number two overall pick looks like a guy who can make an instant impact. Yeah, I think he had 16 points in 18 19 minutes. It was his first game since February or March, the beginning of March playing for Ruckers. um hadn’t done anything really since then. Missed the first couple summer league games with a groin injury in California and in Vegas. Um but yeah, he he I think he’s going to be awfully good. I I I’m very curious to see what happens with the Spurs this year because they do have some obviously some present day talent with Victor and Dearan Fox. Um Jackson says the overunder is 43 and a half. I mean that’s interesting. That’s a pretty good line. I They do have a lot of fit issues to sort out. Um, I don’t really know if De’aran Fox, Dylan Harper, and Stfan Castle long term make sense to all be on the same team, which is an interesting thing to sort out. Um, you know, it’s so I’m very curious to see what that looks like. Um, you know, so they they they do have some real questions to answer with their team, but you know, they go hire Sean Sweeney this summer. They very clearly, you know, Victor is clearly going to be coming in this season expecting to win games. They have the ability to move money around to go add more pieces if they want, if they choose to. Um, their situation and how they approach this season and what they look like in year three. Victor is going to be very interesting on a lot of fronts. And, you know, we also they made the Dear Fox trade. I think those guys played like me I don’t even play games. I was going to say I knew it was five games. I don’t even think it was 100 minutes on the court together. So, you know, they’re basically going to be starting from scratch with that partnership, too. So, there’s just a lot of stuff in San Antonio to get sorted out. And I mean, obviously, we haven’t even really hardly talked about it. But, you know, mentioned Sean Sweeney, he’s going to be coaching under Mitch Johnson, who was officially the successor to Greg Papovich. And, you know, even though he was the interim coach for a lot of last season, it’s a different thing when you’re fully in the job and you come in from training camp and you’re the guy replacing Greg Papovich with that team. So, they are going to be one of the most interesting teams in the league next year. And it is going to be fun to see what that group ultimately looks like on the court cuz they I think they expect that they’re going to start winning games and you know, as we’ve talked about a ton, the West is really really hard. There is a report out of Europe today, by the way. I just looked that he still is not planning on playing in Euro Basket. I don’t know if that’s the definitive thing, but I just wanted to follow up on that. Sorry. Yeah. It’s good to know. Uh I was at, you know, when we were out in Vegas, talked to some Spurs folks and basically saying, “Hey, you know, how do these guards fit together?” Um, obviously Darren Fox, a guy that made a a big swing out in the trade market and then, you know, two guy a number four overall pick who just rookie of the year in Castle and Harper the number two overall pick and they’re all kind of lead guards. Um, but I didn’t get a whole sense of concern about the fit. It was basically like, hey, two guard spots, 96 minutes, three guys, they’re all going to play. Um, and then you kind of figure that out as you go. Um, and but they’ve got some real depth on this team now. You know, Devin Vel, quality player. You know, Kell Johnson coming off the bench. Uh, you know, Harrison Barnes still there, Jeremy Sohan, and then, you know, added Carter Bryant. We’ll see how much he plays as a rookie. Um and then went out and added a couple big men this summer in Luke Cornett and uh and Kelly Olen who they just traded for. And it’s, you know, the the the sense around the Spurs is like, hey, it’s time to make a jump. It’s time to really be a competitive team. Now, what exactly that means at the end of the season in this loaded Western Conference, they might be a very competitive team that doesn’t get a playoff spot. like that’s possible, but you know, they definitely like they need to they need to make a a big stride forward this season for sure. Two things with the Spurs to keep an eye on going forward in addition what you guys talked about. One, um Dearan Fox is extension eligible. He cannot extend until August 3rd. We’ve talked a lot about Luca Donuch. His extension date is August 2nd. Fox can’t till August 3rd. So, we’ll see in the month about whether or not that gets done. They can give him another max and give him up to 230 million. There was an expectation that when they traded for him and they sent three firsts for him to Sacramento, that that would be their intention. You can’t just hand out, you know, automax contracts these days. So, let’s just see how that goes. Maybe that’s what they’ll do. I don’t know. Um, the other thing that is important for them going forward is you mentioned Oolen and Paris Barnes. Both of them are on expiring contracts. You slap them together and you got almost $33 million between the two of them. Um, uh, you put in Sohan in there, you get up to 40. Not that they could extend Sohan this off seasonason if they want to. Now, right now, I would say that there isn’t anybody they should be trying to trade for, but they have extra picks. They have young players. um they have the ability with those with that with what’s on their roster that if they want to go big game hunting they can. That’s one of the reasons why you saw Kevin Durant put him put them on there on the list um on his short list for where he would like to go um if the uh if the you know if they were interested they ended up not making a serious bid. So just keep that in mind when you think about the Spurs going forward. Can I ask you a question that I don’t think you would get a straight answer uh from Spurs folks about? Sure, there’s quite a few things you wouldn’t, but go ahead. Do you think they would have traded for De’Aran Fox had they known they were going to land second in the lottery and get Dylan Harper? No, I don’t I don’t think they would have. But also, it’s you know, they also weren’t going to know that. I mean, there’s no way to know it. But I’m I’m it’s just it’s interesting because, you know, they obviously traded for Fox thinking, “Hey, here’s a guy approaching his prime who can be the long-term uh fit next to Wimi and then they got a guy uh in Harper who could be the longer term.” Well, I would say this. This is why the Fox extension becomes something you’ve got to just do some work on in my view. Maybe they’ll just give him the max and they’ll move on. But let’s say Harper turns out to be the stud that many people think that he is. Mhm. And you get into a situation where you have an excess guard. May look, maybe Fox and Wendy work well together great and you would not dream of it. I’m not I’m just saying that. But, you know, this is the way you got to think if you’re a front office. Yeah. You don’t want to sign Fox to a contract that if you have interest in a year or so to trade him that it becomes an issue, right? And I mean, you know, how do you you know, how do you know? You don’t know. I mean, Fox could be an all-star again this year and maybe Dylan Harper turned out to be a very good player but not great player. Maybe that’s not the way to do it. You got him you got to get him into a contract because he’s headed for free agency otherwise. You don’t want you want to get them signed and there’s going to be a lot of space next year. Unlike this year where only two teams really had significant space next year, Bobby was telling us, you know, depending on how things go, there could be more than 10 with significant space. And you know, you do not want Darren Fox as a free agent in that situation. So, you do need to get him into a contract. But, you know, you know, Bon Temps and I have talked about this for months. There needs to be, you know, Bontemps has been calling out teams that are not doing negotiations. You know, they’re just giving guys extensions. He’s been, this is why you got to negotiate everything. Even if you love the player and you want to keep the player, you just can’t auto give, you know, the most amount of money. You’ve got to negotiate. It is. It’s the responsible thing to do for these teams. So, you just you have to you have to in the new environment. there’s no there’s just no wiggle room anymore because even if you want to spend all the money, there’s other costs that come with it beyond just spending the owner’s money. So, just makes it very difficult to keep building the team. And it but yeah, look, I mean, I think if I think if they knew they were getting um Dylan Harper, they wouldn’t have invested draft picks and getting another lead guard. They would have just got Dylan Harper and probably went and found other pieces to try to put around those guys to build out the roster. I mean, this is a team that is pretty weak on the wing. They don’t have like Luke Cornet’s a nice backup center, but you know, the the three, four spots are not where I think they need to be for these guys to be a real threat to, you know, be a top six team probably in the West. So, they do have some other stuff to do, but they’ve got a lot of stuff they can move around. They got a lot of interesting pieces to fit together. And like I said, I just it’s going to be a very fun puzzle on a lot of levels to watch how they operate this year to see how these guys all fit. And I mean, I don’t remember if we talked about it before or not, but Carter Bryant is a hell of a defensive player already. And he might end up just starting right off the bat. I mean, that’s not a sourced thing. That’s just me watching. But I I’d be surprised if Vel doesn’t start, but we’ll see. Yeah. I mean, but he’s kind of a two. Like that’s the thing. Like he’s not even I don’t know if he’s big enough to really be a three. like that. They they just have a lot of they got a lot of questions to answer across the board. But the good thing is they got a lot of talent to do it with and it is going to be a fun jigsaw puzzle to see how Mitch Johnson tries to put it together and puts the pieces out on the court and hopefully Victor is out there doing his thing again. If they’re a top six seed in the West, Wimby will be an MVP candidate. I I’ll go out on that limb. Yeah, I’d agree with that too. By the way, 120 minutes with Fox and Wimi on the floor together. Okay. Uh a negative net rating, but that’s obviously tiny sample size. So, um this has been a tough uh three weeks for the restricted free agents of this class. Um this is the 2021 draft class um that uh guys that did not get extended before that, you know, that got to free agency. So, some guys got paid from this class last summer. Kate Cunningham got a max, Evan Mobley got a max. Uh Scotty Barnes got a max. Frs Vagner got a max. That’s four guys in the top eight got maxes. Um Parn Shenon got a lot of money. Trey Murphy got a lot of money. Jaylen Johnson got a lot of money. And um and uh earlier this year Santi Alama who was really the only guy of the restricted guys who’s gotten paid so far got well paid. Um so Jaylen Green got a pretty nice chunk of money but not a long-term deal. Correct. He got paid. I should I should clarify that he did get paid over 30 million. So, uh, Jaylen Suggs also got a very good contract. So, this this this a lot of this class has been has been taken care of. If you go back and look a year earlier in the 2020 draft, I think there were four guys who got Maxis. That would be Annne Edwards, LaMelo Ball, um, Tyrese Hallebertton, and um, Dez Bane, who was a 30th pick. And a bunch of guys from that draft have gotten paid really well. Uh, Jaden McDaniels being one, Emanuel Quickley being one. Oh, Tyrese Maxi, he would got a max, too. So, there’s five five in that. And then the 2022 class, which is the guys who are getting paid this summer, uh we’ve already seen um Paliban Carol get a max, the number one pick, Chad Homegrren, the number two pick, get a max. Um and we’ve seen um uh you know, Williams 12 got a max. Uh Jabari Smith Jr. got very good money. um he was a number three pick and some of his other guys are going to get paid too. Um so but the 2021 draft these are the guys who got sort of stuck and primarily um Josh Giddy, Jonathan Kaminga um and uh Quinton Grimes and I guess you would put Cam Thomas from the Nets in there. So we talked to the not put Cam Thomas Cam Thomas is out there. Um, so you know, of the guys from this summer who have gotten taken care of from that draft, uh, DaVon Mitchell did get a contract from the Heat, but he’s been traded around a little bit. Um, Quinton Grimes has been traded twice for that matter. But, uh, I, you know, I do hear traded three times, I think. Three times. Yeah. Yeah. New York to Detroit to Dallas to Philly. Yeah, that’s right. So, um, all right. So, what I am suspecting here is, you know, these guys are going to have a decisions. They’re all going to have decisions coming up about whether or not they want to take the qualifying offer, which is when you sign a qualifying offer. All of them have to have qualifying offers. Otherwise, they’re not restricted. If you sign the qualifying offer, you get a no an automatic no trade clause because if you get traded, the team loses the bird rights. So they they can’t pay you um no matter what. So that’s why you get, you know, an implied no trade clause. So you can you have control over that. Um and so the so the the team you control whether you get traded and um you also are at odds with the team. There are examples in NBA history where a player has signed a uh a qualifying offer and things have gone okay and he’s stayed with the team, but most of the time it signals that this is the beginning of the end with the team. Um so, uh there’s also the possibility that the that there are offers that these guys will be forced to accept. Now, I I talked earlier about how this summer was nuclear winter for free agents, especially restricted guys, because there was only two teams with significant space. Next summer, there’s theoretically a lot more. There’s some reasoning for saying, “Okay, I choose free agency next year. Let’s just roll it over and try again.” And the qualifying offers are all pretty good money. You get a a pretty good bump on what you were going to make last year. Uh let me just take a look at what Kaminga is off the top of my head because I think it’s pretty good money. not what he’s hoping to get paid obviously, but um it’s it’s it’s not something that you know you’re really being penalized for. Um but it’s it’s a pretty hard sell to take the qualifying offer over the real offer for any of those guys. You you want to just go kind of case by case here. Maybe starting with Kaminga. All right. I mean, I think we should do Grimes first just because it’s easy. Like okay, he um he’s obviously he’s restricted with Philly. I have thought the whole summer this is going to end with him signing a probably two or three year deal for a little bit over the mid-level and there’s not really there’s not really a reason for it to get done any sooner because there’s not anybody else who can offer him a deal and that’s a fair offer at Philly qualifying offer is 8.7 million that’s what he would be taking yeah he has not made very much money in his career he’s drafted I think 25th in the first round so if he gets something like 3:45 something in that ballpark. It’s a little over the mid level and he gets out in free again pretty early. Like I think that’s a deal that makes sense for everybody and my guess is he eventually signs that with Philly and he’s there. Yeah. And it was out there that he wanted something like 25 million a year. That’s just not realistic. Um, you know, like hey, he put up good numbers for Philly, but he put up good numbers when somebody had to score. And yeah, he was efficient doing it, but come on. like you’re not getting paid off of putting up uh some numbers for a team that’s losing every night in a market when nobody has any space. And his his negotiations with the Mavericks last year, he wanted basically, you know, a full mid-level deal. The Mavericks were more in that like 8 to9 million range. They wanted to give him something like Naji Marshall’s contract, which is three for uh 27. That was a a big factor in the thinking of the Mavericks trading him for Cody Martin, who’s on the deal right in that $9 million per year range. Now, that deal blew up in the Maverick’s face. Cody Martin was hurt at the time. I’m sorry, Caleb Martin. I I of all people should get my twin straight. Um although they’re identical, so it’s more confusing. Anyways, the deal blew up in the Maverick’s face for a variety of reasons. it pushed him right up against the uh thing where they couldn’t even sign a guy to another 10 days, so on and so forth. And it looked really bad because Grimes was putting up a ton of points for Philly. But I’m just telling you, like there were Mavericks coaches who were not happy with another trade that the team made and weren’t shy to let me know about it. None of the Mavericks coaches were upset about the trade uh for, you know, the Grimes for Martin trade. they they you know they didn’t really value Grimes long term um which is a long- winded way of saying if he’s getting something around the mid level I think that would be a good deal for him. Yeah. And if he gets over the mid-level a little bit as Bon Temp said it incentivizes him to sign it because that’s more than anybody’s probably going to offer him at this point. Uh Josh Giddy’s uh qualifying offer is 11 million. Um, you know, his situation is, you know, when he got playing time towards the end of the season when they had the injuries, um, he put up really good numbers and I’m sure his position is, well, play me starters minutes and I’ll continue to put up good numbers. Yeah, he’s he’s never had a problem putting numbers up. That’s not true. That’s not the issue. Well, and the issue is defensively. Well, and also like, hey, Josh Giddy to be productive needs to be the primary ball handler, which for the Bulls right now, he’s in a a situation where that will be his role. Now, what’s the ceiling on a team if Josh Giddy’s your primary ball handler? I I do think there’s a ceiling there. However, all these things, it’s not like this is something that’s just been discovered over the last year, the last, you know, 6 months. Like, this was you didn’t know any of this stuff before you traded Alex Caruso straight up in a deal where the reaction from anybody who knew anything about the NBA said, “Hold on. They didn’t get any picks in that deal. The Bulls got no picks. Seriously. So, if you valued him so much that you traded Alex Caruso straight up for him, how are you gonna tell him you don’t value him that much during contract negotiations? Well, I mean, there’s there’s valuing him and there’s giving him exactly what he wants. And I I suspect again here I would be surprised if there isn’t a deal that’s struck at some point between Giddy and the Bulls. I just, you know, the the question I think is is it going to be something in the 20 to $25 million range per or is it going to be something, you know, well north of that? I mean, I mean, and that and that from what I hear, that’s kind of the difference in the discussions right now. And look, I Josh Giddy’s a talented player. I wouldn’t want to sign him to either deal because to your point, it’s you’re sort of signing yourself up to be a 35 and 47 team if you have him as your main engineer offense, which is right about where the Bulls were last year and probably will be going forward if they have him doing that. Um, but he is a talented player. If you do believe in him continuing to grow and improve, like somewhere in the 2025 million range is probably a reasonable deal for everybody. again like I would assume that gets done at some point and that he doesn’t sign the qualifying offer. But to Brian’s initial point, Josh Giddy has put up a lot of numbers and you know he I think there’s a a belief that he’s got a chance to be a high level player and so I could see him saying well I was six pick in the draft. I’ve made a decent amount of money. I get another $11 million. There’s a lot of cast space next summer. I’ll take my chances. like that one. I think I think there’s at least more plausibility to that than than the Grimes one, but I would still be pretty surprised if he didn’t eventually. Yeah, because he’s e even if it’s the numbers the Bulls are putting out there, it’s nearing a 100 million total value. It’s at least in the in the upper Yeah. Well, and and he’s a again, he’s sort of the same thing as Grimes. Like if you’re a young guy like that, get 80, 90, $100 million guaranteed in your pocket and then be a free agent again at 26 or 27 and then go try to get another one. Like I wish I could tell you I knew what the Bulls plan was. I do not. They have plan has been to be the 10 seed for years and for a place in three team trades. They are in position to have a lot of cap space in 26 because Vus, Nicolo Vus, Nicola Vousvich, Zack Collins, um Kevin Herder are all in the last year of their contracts. I assume they want to keep Kobe White. It’s not likely he gets extended because his number is so low, but he’s on the last year of his contract if they want. So, just just so fans know what you’re saying. He he’s currently making $12.8 million this year. He’s had a really good couple years. he’s outplayed his deal and under the under the the rules of the current CBA, you can only bump a guy up a certain amount of money. So, it’s unlikely the Bulls, you know, they could probably offer him somewhere around like three for 60. Uh maybe a little bit higher than that. And I I don’t think that would be enough to get Kobe extended. Yeah, the the Bulls would right now. I mean, they did sign Trey Jones to be a backup point guard for them. They gave him two years guaranteed. um they’re in position to have 60 plus million dollars in cap space next year if that’s what they want to do. And if they want to keep that flexibility because they know they’re not going to be able to extend Kobe White anyway, they could just squeeze Giddy into the um into the qualifying offer and then they could just really have a bunch of space because if they sign Giddy, you know, it really it loss their Now, what are they going to do with that space? That’s another that’s another question. And that also depends on the number, too. I mean, if he signs for a deal starting at like 21, it costs him $10 million in space in theory. So, like, you know, um, we’ll see. All right. So, then you’ve got Jonathan Kaminga. Um, this one’s a tough one because obviously he has buted heads repeatedly with Steve Kerr and the idea that they’re going to be able to go through a season together no matter what the situation is and be hunky dory I would think is a hard belief. At the same time, yeah, the Warriors have made it clear that they value him as an asset and they are simply just not going to give him away. If you come to them with a sign and trade offer, as I think they’ve had a little bit of interest in, including from the Kings, they are not going to just do it to send them away. They’re going to want something to really help them. And I think they would like if I think I think in the opposite of the Bulls where I’m suspecting that they’re wouldn’t it wouldn’t, you know, there’d be some interest in the qualifying offer from them. By the way, Kumingas is around 8 million, his qualifier. Um, I think the the Warriors would prefer, as long as it wasn’t crushing him on the tax, I think the Warriors would prefer to get Kuminga into a contract that they could move similar to what they did a few years ago with D’Angelo Russell. Well, I wouldn’t even say it’s that. I mean, that was that was a little different because of the Durant deal. I I think the obvious analog to this is the guy McMahon brought up earlier, which is Jaylen Green. And I don’t think that Kaminga is getting the same amount of money as Jaylen Green for a variety of reasons that that the Warriors are going to need to avoid the second apron. We all expect them at some point to get Al Horford signed. So, you know, there’s somewhere in the low 20s is probably the limit of what they could really realistically go to this year and get him signed. Um, using the taxment level exception would hard cap them at the second apron. Um, but yeah, they they would like to have him, I’m sure, under contract. So to your point, as you said earlier correctly, if you sign the the qualifying offer, all of a sudden you can’t be traded, the whole point of having Kamingo around this year would be to turn him into something. I mean, I think there is still some belief with the Warriors that he could still become a guy that fits there. But I But not from the coach. No, no, no, no, no. I I agree. I mean, what I’m saying is I I I think everybody agrees that would probably be the thing that makes the most sense. But again, the problem is you’re in a market where there’s not a lot of cap space. there’s not a lot of teams that are banging down the door to get them. And so it probably makes sense for everybody to do a shorter term deal of some kind. Um again, a two or three year like the Jaylen Green deal, a two or three year deal, probably a three-year deal at a somewhere in the 20s and get him a bunch of money and he’s still a young guy. he’d get back out to free agency early and, you know, they would be motivated to put him in good positions to succeed this year and give him a chance to showcase himself some. And I I think that situation could work out pretty well for everybody cuz look, if there was a good sign and trade available, to your point, Brian, he wouldn’t be on the Warriors right now, we wouldn’t be talking about it, right? Right. Like if there was somebody out there saying we got to get Jonathan Kaminga, this would probably be done already. But there isn’t. So, at some point, I think it makes sense for everybody to come together and find some number that’s palatable and um try this again in January and February. Well, maybe something materializes with the Kings or or another team, but I definitely think the more the most likely scenario is this thing plays out similar to what you’re talking about. And, you know, the Jaylen Green contract was a three-year deal to the third year being a player option. you know, that kind of a shortterm deal that is designed to be traded. As much as the Rockets deny that that deal was designed to be traded, what happened? It was traded. Right now, I think with Kaminga though, it would be designed to be traded December 15th, like as soon as he’s eligible. Um, and because here’s the thing, Steve Kerr has made it crystal clear like this ain’t reading between the lines. It’s not sources said this is Steve Kerr repeatedly on the record saying Kaminga does not fit with Steph and Jimmy. And if you didn’t believe what he said, the guy was DMPCD in the playoffs several times. But if you’re going to do that kind of a deal and basically you’re trying to lip them as quickly as possible, you know, for value, you’ve got to play them for the first couple months of the season. You’ve got to you don’t have to put them in the starting lineup, but you got to put them in the rotation. You got to put them in in a situation to be showcased. Um, but I think that’s probably it. It’s it’s not the ideal scenario for anybody or Kaminga or Kerr for the Warriors, but I do think it’s the best case realistic scenario the way that there just has not been a market that’s materialized for him um given the circumstances of restricted free agency and the lack of cap space. Um Ramona Shelbert and I wrote a story on uh the Lakers that came out the end of last week. Um really it discussed the limbo that the Lakers are in right now as they navigate moving from a LeBron James ccentric team to a Luca Donic centric team. And um the story generated quite a bit of reaction and I would just want to say that um the thrust of this situation the Lakers are in is not really controversial. It’s uncomfortable. Okay? Because it’s not controversial for an organization to look at a 40year-old superstar and a 27y old superstar and say we need to lean into the 27y old. It’s not controversial, you know, 26. 26. Well, be 27 next season, but yeah, 26. Uh, I guess I if I’m going to call him 27, I should call LeBron 41. Um, it’s not controversial necessarily if if both players are in the position where they’ve got one year left on their contract that you would prioritize getting the 26y old into that new contract as opposed to extending the 41y old. That is, you know, in a vacuum, those are not controversial things that the Lakers have done. But as I said, it is uncomfortable and it is certainly uncomfortable for LeBron who has never been in this situation before and didn’t see it coming. Um, and going back to February, right? And so, um, while you know, and like by the way, like I’m not sure that even no matter what LeBron produces this year that extending him at the max for close to $60 million next year, having a 41 turning 42y old is a good usage of money. Like I don’t think that’s controversial. I’m not saying that he wouldn’t. I think it would be a good usage of money for a lot of teams. But this goes back to the fundamental problem the Lakers have had for a long time, which is that they just aren’t a very good team outside of their top couple of players and they need to fully re overhaul the roster, which is the same situation they’ve been in, frankly, since the moment they made the Russell Westbrook trade. like they’ve never really gotten out of this situation where they have they had AD and LeBron and not enough help for years and now they have Luca and LeBron and not enough help. And it’s hard from the situation they’re in with no draft picks and no real flexibility to add around Luca and LeBron without subtracting some money and figuring out a way to reshuffle the roster. And there’s just not a like for a lot of teams. Yes. ressigning a top 10 or 15 player in the league to the max, even if it’s for one year, would be a good idea, but they’re not a lot of teams. And I think, yeah, here’s one more thing. I’m sorry, McMahon. I think the Lakers contributed to the discomfort by not bringing LeBron in on the Luca trade. And I understand why they did it, but I’m just saying it contributed to the discomfort. And LeBron contributed to the discomfort when instead of just picking up his option and saying, “All right, I’m going year to year. We’ll see you in September.” Rich Paul made these statements with that were very open-ended, left open to interpretation and just made it clear that he wasn’t necessarily thrilled about the direction of the Lakers. So, both sides have contributed and there’s been a bunch of little minor things, but both sides have contributed to a bit of a frost developing there, but I don’t think it’s a situation where the Lakers are like looking to get rid of him or do I think LeBron is looking to get out of there. I just think they’re in this uncomfortable situation. I’m sorry, McMahon. Go ahead. No, it and and you’re obviously closer to this than either um Bon Tims or I and and you know the reporting on that uh everybody should read that story. But LeBron at this point wants this to be an uncomfortable situation. In fact, the whole point of Rich Paul’s statement coming right after he opts into the last year of his contract is to create discomfort. Now, what exactly the endgame is, like those guys are extremely intelligent people who understand the way that NBA business works and understand just how difficult any kind of a trade that would make sense for all three parties, the two teams and LeBron would be to pull off. You know, the idea of LeBron getting a buyout from the Lakers at a number of $52.6 $6 million is I don’t know, man. Like, stranger things have happened, I guess. I want to just be clear. I mean, I don’t think I mean, the reason people are thinking about a buyout is because LeBron trading LeBron is very challenging. And it was like, well, wait a minute. If he’s not uncomfortable or if he’s not comfortable with their direction, what’s his other alternative? There’s only to get off of a team. There’s only two alternatives. You can be released or you can be traded. And so I think part of it is a vacuum. There’s a vacuum and people are stepping into the vacuum. So that that’s all. Yeah. Well, the vacuum that that LeBron via Rich Paul has created and LeBron True when given a chance to clarify situation and that the Lakers have created because again I have been waiting for Genie Bus or Mark Walter or Rob Pelinka or JJ Reic or somebody anybody to say we’re thrilled LeBron has opted in and we’ll see you in September. Anybody can I can we I don’t need this statement. the team statement, but I’d like somebody at some point to say this is great. Let’s we’ll see you in the fall. So far, Paul isn’t saying it. LeBron isn’t saying it. JJ Reic isn’t saying it. Robin isn’t saying it. Genie Bust. So, that’s why we have to keep doing this and nobody has said it. And this weekend, LeBron came to a a Lakers summer league game. Dave McMenan went over and asked him if he wanted to talk about anything in the wake of Rich’s comments, and he said basically no comment. I I ain’t got nothing to talk about. Rich went on the radio and did another nonsequittor statement. I mean basically everybody’s doing the same everybody’s doing the same thing over and over again. Yeah. Rich said he had no interest in clarifying anything and the Lakers have been as you said completely mum. Um but but here’s the thing. LeBron throughout the course of his career has always been able to apply pressure on the franchises that he played for because he always had the threat of his departure, right? LeBron has always had the ultimate power. He’s always had all the leverage. And now LeBron doesn’t have the power and the leverage because the threat of his departure next summer is not really a threat to the Lakers cuz it certainly appears that it’s part of the plan for the Lakers. So LeBron’s ability to apply pressure to go all in on this season like he’s done throughout the course of his career is non-existent at this point. I would still also like to know what the grand plan is to build uh a contending team around Luca like well that’s that’s what Ramon and I wrote about. You know Rob Pelinka presented him with some plan at their exit meeting and I and I don’t know for sure what was in it. I just know that Rob went in with a binder and Luca left with literature. So he presented him something and obviously it’ll be more formal whe when Lubana I guess. Yeah. Well um you know and and you know Luca to his credit certainly appears to be doing his part in terms of accepting JJ Riddick’s challenge of getting his butt in shape. He’s definitely a lot slimmer. He’s definitely getting that revenge bod going. Um so I love I love the revenge bod. You should trademark that revenge bot. Well, that like I said, that’s an IT department phrase. Now, you know, I she’s doing just fine. She doesn’t need to get revenge on me. She’s, you know, everything’s everything’s great, just to be clear, including the body. Um, but uh, but Rob Pelinka’s got to roll up the sleeves on that cool leather jacket and get to work, man. And you know, but he’s got I think Pelinka wisely is it’s a long patient approach because he can’t you can’t microwave this thing. They’re not he can’t just snap his fingers and create a championship team this year. When you were talking crazy stuff about underwear and stuff at the live show the other day and Bon Temps was slamming his head into the microphone. He hit his head with the microphone so many times he left a red mark on his head. Good. You damaged him with your I’m glad. Yeah. He’s he’s been damaging my brain for a long time. So, what else is new? Okay, a couple things before we go. Number one, uh, congratulations to Kobe Alman in this front office with the Cavs Cavs corner. He just got a contract extension. Um, in a move that in a new move that I did not see coming. Uh, Fred Van Vleet, who was not on the executive committee of the players association. Typically, when you see a new president, I’ve seen a handful in my time. Um CJ McCollum’s term ended. Fred Van Vid of the Rockets now the new president of the players association. So be the guy helming the next CBA negotiation. So good verb. Good verb. Try. Uh also podcast announcement. We are now in we are officially in the offse pod mode. So we’re we are as as as Bonds is, you know, lying across in the Atlantic and doing pods at all hours of the day with no sleep. Uh we are going to get down to two a week starting uh starting now. Um it will come out uh Tuesdays and Fridays. Um barring barring the need for extras at some point. If not, I mean emergency pods as as necessary if circumstances arise. Yeah. So for sure. Uh hopefully hopefully they don’t. Hopefully they don’t. Thank you to our man Jackson uh who was uh helming the operation in Vegas the other night. Uh Jackson got himself on stage the other day. I was gonna say, man, he’s got a little stage presence. He’s he’s he’s got Zoom fright. He doesn’t have stage fright. That’s right. He was he was good. Um all right. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bontemps from Portugal. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We will talk to you later this week. Adios, amigos.