It’s time for the final men’s major championship of 2025 as the 153rd Open Championship heads to Royal Portrush. To preview this week’s tournament, Andy Johnson is first joined by Fried Egg Golf producer PJ Clark to run through the top storylines to watch. They discuss the course setup at Royal Portrush, the 2025 Player of the Year race between Rory McIlroy and Scottie Scheffler, Collin Morikawa’s recent struggles, and more. Andy then chats with 2024 Open Championship runner-up Billy Horschel about his thoughts on the field at Portrush and his first-hand experience playing in The Open. The two also touch on Billy’s rehab as he works to return to play after hip surgery, his thoughts on television coverage of the PGA Tour, and the importance of continuity in a tour pro’s life.
0:00-4:03 – Introduction
4:04-41:54 – Top Storylines for the 2025 Open
41:55-2:06:38 – Billy Horschel on his rehab & the 2025 Open
2:06:39-2:08:02 – Looking Ahead
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Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. I’m your host, Andy Johnson, and today we are going to talk about the last major of the year. Sadly, the last men’s major of the year, the Open Championship. Uh I can’t believe we’re here, but uh it’s mid July and uh that’s astonishing, too. Uh but we have a uh awesome awesome major championship ahead, the 153rd Open Championship. It will be held at Royal Port Rush uh which we saw very recently 2019 open championship host which delivered an awesome major. It was uh you know the first major that Royal Port Russia had held in a very long time. It will only be the third time that Royal Port Rush has ever held the Open Championship. Uh a awesome golf course, a truly delightful open championship venue. Uh so this is a uh a big week ahead. We will have a a ton of stuff pouring out from both on the ground and uh and just from observations from watching the telecast this week. So be sure to follow our uh our various social channels, sign up for the Friday newsletter. Um today I am excited uh wanted to do a little something different. I uh I feel like some of these preview pods can get a bit redundant. you know, you you do the story lines and it and it becomes, you know, storyline, you know, they over the course of five months, if you count in the players, they you know, those story lines are the core story lines are the core story lines and they uh so I I wanted to do something a bit different. Uh one of uh one of golf’s great personalities has been on the bench uh been on the DL. Uh Billy Horchel joins who obviously I mean you talk about a guy who almost won a won an open championship last year. Billy Horchel finished T2 uh was standing you know had the had the lead uh with uh with 10 holes left in uh last year’s open. Awesome performance at Trun. Uh Billy was uh was gracious to hop on uh and chat open championship with us. So, we talk about Billy uh a lot of just open centric conversation, but to tie it all together, PJ and I are going to jam through some of the big stories. Uh we’re going to talk about the big stories on the front end of this podcast. Then Billy is going to take us home. Uh so, beefy Open Championship preview. Uh this week, the Open Championship, all of our coverage is brought to you by our friends over at Mercedes-Benz. Uh, MercedesBenz has been partnering with the Open since 2011 and uh, the partnership is rooted in shared values, commitment to excellence, and bridging tradition with modern luxury. Uh, one of the things that we want to call out about Mercedes-Benz, I see these cars uh, on the road, every time I see them, I’m like, “God, that’s a nice car.” Uh, is the Mercedes-Benz SUVs. They are perfect companions for golf enthusiasts seeking performance, style, and space on the way to the course. And the GLS in particular, the GLS stands out as the pinnacle of this lineup. The GLS combines power and finesse. Like any great golfer, power and finesse. Uh, and it’s backed by 12 driver assist systems. Would have been perfect for golf if it was 14. Could have been the 14 clubs, but it’s the 12 driver assist systems. nimble handling, cutting edge AI technology, and superb craftsmanship. Um, the GLS reflects MercedesBenz philosophy to deliver the world’s greatest vehicles. Uh, if you want to learn more about the GLS and the Mercedes-Benz full lineup of SUVs, visit mbusa.com. Big thanks to Mercedes-Benz. Uh, check out mbusa.com and their full lineup of vehicles. All right, PJ, let’s get into it. This is this the first time that you have been an audible guest on the on this podcast? No. One other time. Uh I think the first episode of 2025, me, you and Joseph did like 15 minutes on TGL before that started. Remember TGL? Remember when that was like a big part of our lives? Remember TGL? You got the You got the frogs in the background now. I am uh I don’t have to remember TGL. I’m living TGL lifestyle every day, you I just not day I’m not thinking about think about my beloved Ballf Frogs, you know, and and what we’re what we’re how we’re going to improve from last year. It’s been a great year for the frogs on on the actual golf courses. There’s been a lot of wins, a lot of good finishes, and in in the in the TGL Thunderdome, not so much, but you know, what what would you rather have? Well, you know, I uh the next year’s a new year. We’re uh we’re counting down the days here. I was just on a call talking about how golf goes dead a while a ways and I almost piped in. You know what about TGL? Not anymore. Um all right, let’s talk about the uh the Open 15 53rd Open Championship. We’re going to Port Rush. Um we’re going to do a quick truncated couple storylines. What’s the number one story line you’re uh you’re looking out for? Uh Korawa just as a whole. It’s been a a very interesting uh odd year up and down. Uh pretty tumultuous. Couple caddy splits, a new caddy, Billy Foster on the bag form. Uh Matthew, coaching changes, too. Yep. Coaching changes, too. Uh it’s been up and down. Zero major top 10s uh this year to this point, which is the first time that’s happened for him entering the Open Championship since he became a full-time player in 2020. uh since he won the Open in in in 2021, he’s gotten miscut miscut T-16. So, hasn’t seen a lot of success necessarily at this tournament since he wins uh since he won. He he kind of choked API to Russell Henley, late on the back nine there, finished top 10 at the Travelers or at the players the next week. But after that, only a T8 at the Rocket since then. He’s only played the signature events outside of the Rocket and the Zurich, so he hasn’t honestly played that much. uh an uncompetitive T50 at the PGA, an uncompetitive T-23 at the US Open. It’s been an an up and down year in a lot of ways for Colin Morau, but this is a guy who is put in that top flight of Americans in a Ryder Cup year, has won multiple major championships and and kind of just feels lost for me right now. He’s he’s an interesting uh player in the world of golf. just the the whole drought of of winning a tournament is is alarming. Um I mean that being said, he’s been so consistent um for his career. Uh the you know the point you made right out of the gate, no top 10s in majors this year. He has been a fixture in his career. One of the great major championship players, one of the most steady players uh you know we’ve seen in some time. He’s in in that top echelon. you know, if he retired tomorrow, he’s probably a Hall of Famer. Yeah. Um, which is an amazing like he accomplished that within the first couple years of his career. Um, which is, you know, they it’s it’s been an interesting um, you know, golf just in general kind of an interesting time, right, where we’ve we had that like huge youth wave. And I still think like there’s obviously like supreme young talent coming into the game, but it has a bit normalized. I would say we’ve seen some some older players really have success. I think you’re seeing it in both ways. The younger guys are better, but the technology is helping the old guys stay relevant for for longer. I don’t know about that. No, I think I mean it used to be like if you look at like the career arcs, it used to be like you you I think the technology is helping young guys be relevant earlier than ever earlier because it was a sport where like you had to learn how to play. It was you know there there was so much aspect of the game that took experience that has been that experience window has been shortened so much. Uh whether it’s learning golf courses, whether it’s you know how to hit like technology has has created a situation where like when you get weather, you don’t have to hit as many shots as you used to have to hit when a ball spun more. Like the art of like taking spin off the ball, it’s still important. Let’s not but it is much less valued today than 20 years ago. So, I do think like but I I think what’s I think where we have like those like you know we’re still going to have like these young players come in but like it felt like we had just like this monster youth wave happen and now those guys are are 28 29 you know and Scotty Shuffler is like a great example of somebody who start who started popping after he was 25 you know and and then we’ve seen you people that are late bloomers like Steph Straa and Russ Henley. Russ Henley’s having a career year in his mid30s and you know last major we had Adam Scott contending at at 46 which 44 right 45 yeah 44 I think um which was an amazing amazing you know feat you obviously have Rory Mroy still doing it in his mid30s so it’s just like I think golf’s in a nice balance where it has like a lot of uh different ages playing well but K Morawa is just like in this middle period of his career it’s just it’ll be you know where’s Does he go the next five years? Do the next five years look more like his first three years or or or more like the last year and a half? Do you think and this is this is something that I have thought about when thinking about Colin Morauer for a while. Do you think it’s it’s bad that he is only playing the signature events and does not make any in between starts and not playing like a a Houston or any of the Texas events that you see maybe a Scotty or a Rory play. And I mean, he’s played the Rocket for the last three or four years, but other than that, he’s pretty much just picking the signatures and playing from that. I mean, that’s a great question. Um, I think there is like a cadence that you develop when you win golf tournaments. I think that winning at a player of Morawa’s level, winning tournaments is and the familiarity that you gain when you win, the comfort that you gain when you win, when you win anything is important. And I think like we we see it every year like Scotty cleans up every year a couple just regular events. this year it was the CJ cup right where he cleaned it cleaned up there and it’s like it gets him going you know it gets him rolling um I think that I think like the the hard thing when you just play signature events is that you are playing Scotty Shuffler and Rory Mroy and every other top flight the the competition level in those of winning is hard when you have somebody that has played as dominant golf the guy Sheffller’s played the last two years as well as Rory played the first, you know, four months of the year. Like, you know, this one of the interesting things that has developed is like Rory was the best golfer in the world from January till uh till the Masters. Scotty has taken the throne. I guess this can lead in right into my my first thing I’m watching. You know, Rory and Scotty, they’ve run like parallel. We haven’t seen them both at their best at the same time. Needless to say, like, you know, the PGA Tour player of the year is kind of a joke, right? You you win the FedEx Cup and and and they’re you’re probably going to win the player of the year, but like the actual player of the year, if Rory or Scotty gets it done this week, gets their second major, I would have a hard time believing either one of those guys isn’t the player of the year, no matter what happens the rest of the year. Well, sometimes sometimes two majors isn’t even good enough to win player of the year. Yeah, that’s right. Like LA I mean last year was an interesting year because Scotty went absolutely bananas. He had so many wins. But if you get to the point where Rory has two majors in a players. Yeah. If Scotty won every playoff event, I don’t think you give him player of the year over somebody that wins, you know, completes the career grand slam, wins the players, and wins an open at, you know, in northern There’s a lot of style points uh on the table for Rory here. Yeah. Like I I mean they I think that’s like the interesting thing. It’s like the this middle period of of Rory’s year has been has been weird dynamic, you know? There there’s been some like iciness with the media. There’s been some poor play. You know, I think everybody thought this relief would be off and it had the opposite effect where it’s like, what’s the next mountain to climb? Here we go to uh a a major championship in his home country, Northern Ireland. Second time he’s gotten to play a major at home, and it’s at a golf course he famously shot a 61 at as a kid playing the North of Ireland. He never won the North of Ireland at Royal uh Royal Port Rush. uh the the great amateur event that was hosted has is hosted there every year, the Irish amateur event. Um but like if he wins this now, like statistically, you’re probably not going to say this was like one of the greatest years of golf. Mhm. But in terms of emphatic like just if you could like if you remove you just look at the accomplishments of the Pebble Beach where a venue he never won at. Yep. The players completing the career grand slam at Augusta National. If he wins at Port Rush, that’s an incredible year. And then the added opportunity, he could win an away rider cup at Beth Page Black. Like there’s like this could be a crazy crazy accomplishment year of in terms of like highest of high type stuff. Um but again, if Scotty wins this, he is without a doubt the player of the year. That’s I think that’s one of the fascinating things is if either of these guys win it, they have had the best year in golf. And it’s still an open case. Like I think everybody’s like closed the door to Scotty’s, but like if Rory wins this, like I talk about like great great like storybook stuff. Yeah. It would be hard to to pick against given all of the context of of Roy Shear and it was something that everybody talked about, you know, leading into the Masters that also he had Quail Hallow on the docket was favorite course in the world as a potential major venue this year. this major the 2025 major season set up pretty well for Rory and in terms of storylines and everything and if you’re able to check two of those boxes you get to win at Pebble. He talked about venues earlier this week and and you know what’s important. Pebble Beach is obviously an iconic venue. It’s hard it would be it would be almost impossible. Then you add the Ryder Cup on top of it. That would be that would be hard to beat. But Scotty I I mean Scotty got his home game at at Craig Ranch, you know, just just dominating the Dallas area. So may maybe maybe Rory has to win this week to compete with that. But Scotty is week in week out, like you said, if you just go total number of months, right, of Rory was the best player in the world from January through the middle of April and Scotty’s gone the rest of the year since then, then you start looking at, you know, how many I if neither of them win, what what is the debate? And Scotty’s going to have the quote unquote belt for longer here and is probably going to pick this pick this and the analytics, right? Yeah. Like that’s the other thing is like what what’s interesting to me is like Rory wins this week, say he doesn’t play great in the playoffs there and Scotty plays great in the playoffs is you’re going to have like this you’re going to have this like amazing analytical versus like contextual debate. be a great Miguel Cabrera winning the Triple Crown versus Mike Trout who had every analytical his first full season, his every analytical and Miguel Cabrera got the the contextual uh MVP there. So that’s that’s a good it’s a good point actually by you. Yeah, I I think that’s like actually like a one of the great, you know, kind of just sports debates in in the modern era is this like the push and pull of analytical versus, you know, like the the what the numbers say versus what the eye test or the story says, right? And that’s what would make it such a a fascinating debate. I think it’s it’s it’s you know the career grand slam it’s it’s only happened so few times and and you’re adding the the context of a potential win at Port Rush. When you add the historical context that needed that obviously comes with those wins. These are not just normal wins if they happen then I think you you’re getting to the side where maybe the analytics don’t matter as much. But if these were wins independent of the historical context, I think that equation changes greatly, at least in my opinion. Um, just something also to note with both of those guys. Uh, Scotty Sheffller, I think like one thing that I would say most a lot of the great players have done is they’ve won multiple majors in in the same year. This would if Scotty wins it would be the first time he’s done multiple majors in a year. Um for Rory, if he would were to win this, he would join this was Jamie. I brought this up on uh I believe before the US Open about Rory. Jamie Kennedy did the did the numbers a elite random he called it random club in golf. If Rory Mroy won this week at uh at Royal Port Rush, he’d become just the third player in the last 50 years to win multiple majors in a year multiple times. Yeah. So it’ be Tom Watson in 1977 and 82 and Tiger ready for Tiger 2000 2002 2005 2006. So, you got a little bit of catching up to do to to get to that mark. But, and then obviously you Jack Nicholas did that multiple times as well. Um, uh, so so yeah, the I think like I think those two uh that player of the year it like I think that’s what kind of like the open one of the added things of it being the last major now is it does have this like this like who had the best year in golf kind of debate. And I I think that’s that’s independent of whoever the PGA Tour decides as their player of the year. Yeah. Well, I was going to say like does does the the does the player of the year like at the end of the day the actual official award like really matter? Like is that is that is is that the important factor or is it the more you know commonly accepted who had the best year? I mean, like a an interesting thing would be like if Scotty won this, if Scotty wins this, like when when we talk about 2025, three years from now, is is Scotty the thing that we remember or is still going to be Rory with the career grand slam? You would think, unless Scotty wins this in some crazy dominant fashion and runs away with it, that some some level of history. again the historical context that you’re going to have to add. But yeah, I mean obviously 2025 is going to be circled on the calendar for the for the Masters for the rest of time. What do you have next? Uh I have the defending champion at Royal Port Rush, Shane Lowry. Uh very uh interesting, you know, season for him. Uh kind not unlike Colin Moraui had had a T2 at at Truist as his best result of the year, but he’s just hitting all the sad boys. Well, I I’m not trying to be sad boys, but I’m trying to see where these guys are at. As of now, it’s his worst major year since 2017. I hate again, I hate to be the Demi Doubter bringing this all up. But he’s fourth in strokes game, Ted Green. He’s second in strokes game approach. His irons have been great this year for Shane Lowry, but I I went and looked it up. His his form coming into the open in 2019 at Royal Port Rush. He did T3 at in Hilton Head, cut from the Zurich, T8 at the PGA, T28 at the US Open, and then won the Open Championship. his form coming in now. T18 at Hilton Head, the T2 at uh T12 at Zurich, T2 at Truis, which is his best finish of the year, cut at the PGA, T23 at the Memorial, T13 in Canada, cut at the US Open, and a and a T45 at Travelers. So, he had some he was trending a little bit at least was around uh had a top 10 finish at the at the PGA heading into 2019, but has not had outside of the truest any sort of success this year that would would make anybody think uh that the title defense is even on the table at this point. It’s a unique setup here. Like I don’t think usually you you get a title defense in an open a US Open or a um PGA like this close while you’re and while you’re still like in the top arguably a more accomplished like obviously the Open’s a big part of his career but like the last if you zoom out a little bit further the last 18 months is the best golf that Shane Lowry’s played in his career like once he got over the putting thing with that Zurich win to now is probably the best, you know, highest world ranking he’s he’s he’s gotten to most, you know. So, it is it is a a you know, I think that that dynamic is going to become a little bit more true with the US Open with their with their ROA with their uh anchor sites, you know, like Pinehurst is coming up quick again and and Pebble’s coming up. It will be like in pretty quick succession. So, but like yeah that it’s a it’s an interesting aspect of like you usually see like you you usually see these um courses like spaced almost 10 years out and in some some regard but this being just so close so on the heels and I think that’s like actually like you know subplot storyline of the open it’s like they don’t have a lot of venues. Yeah. like we are I think we’re getting going to get uh the open championship basically at uh the old course every five years from now. So 150 155 160 like that’s the new cadence for the old course. Port Rush appear like because of the amount of fans they can fit but also it is a world class test of golf but that seems to be on a fast track the the open needs more venues. Um and on that, you know, we uh this will get to my second one is the golf course. Um 2019 it was awesome. It, you know, I think there was a lot of anticipation of it coming back to Northern Ireland. Um obviously a country, an area of the world that like people ask like why why didn’t this happen like earlier? Well, it was a country, a part of the part of the world that was going through some of its own like issues. Um, and I it’s an amazing place. I got to visit Northern Ireland in um in March of last year. Love the people, love the place. And Royal Por Rush to me is like one of the greatest golf courses in the world. Um, I think like somehow like in a weird way like you know you think about like where it is you like I think it’s pretty widely considered like a top 20 course um in the world. Like I think it might be like might be too low. I you know is I I talk about this a lot with Matt Roues uh from our team and Brendan and Cameron who who we all played together. Um, you know, there are courses that are more stunning and more dramatic and more like once-ina-lifetime bucket list places like, you know, the most famous Northern Ireland course along with Port Rush is Royal County Down. I would put that in a bucket. But I do think like in a way, if if this makes sense, like I think Royal County Down is like a more stunning place to play golf. Mhm. But I think that from like top to bottom in in terms of the whole package, Royal Port Rush is probably a golf course with less weaknesses and a more well-rounded golf course. This is to me at the very top the best Lynx test, like maybe among the best. It it probably would be one of the three or four best tests of golf in the world of golf. Like I think if I was going to make a list in short order of those, I’d have Shinik, Augusta National, Royal Port Rush, and like Royal Melbourne would be my like kind of like holy grail testing championship golf. I think what this brings to the table, it’s got incredible topographical interest. You hit up, you hit down, and you often hit from lies that are not flat. That to me is like a core feature of great great championship golf. So you think about Shinikok has that in spades. Augusta National has that in spades. Port Rush has that in spades. Um the other thing that Port Rush has that you know like Shinik has this too exceptionally firm playing conditions. So the ball bounces, the ground is alive, and that to me is another really important example. Royal Melbourne would be another golf course that has that exceptional firmness, that thud that you get. Uh it’s been a dry spring in in the uh in the UK and Ireland. Um and that should aid that kind of the ball being alive when it hits the ground out there. Um, the last thing that is like that this course has that I think Shiddik has somewhat is reliable uh conditions. Y one of the last, you know, real like if if there’s no wind, these guys just hit stock shots. There’s no reason to see artistry with the with the strike, you know, moving trajectories, having to shape shots because of the wind coming off your left or off your right. at Royal Port Rush, you’re going to get some reliable conditions. Now, like I look I was looking at the weather. The wind doesn’t look like anything crazy, but like a 15 mph wind out there is a wind you have to consider and you have to start to um not just hit the stock shot at the stock trajectory. You have to move move the ball up and down. And I think what that does is it just separates the true strikers, the people that really have the game and also have the the experience and you know all the shots in their bag. So for me, you know, Port Rush and and what separates it from other Lynx courses is it’s got like a really great uh sophisticated set of greens. Um, so you start you start to see you you’re just going to see a lot of really neat um contouring in the greens versus a lot of other, you know, open championship venues where the greens are a little bit that’s where you might lose interest. Um, and and this this golf course has some really sharp surrounds, some really interesting contours on the greens. So, the golf course to be um is going to be awesome. uh and uh I can’t wait uh to see it uh host another major championship. So would you be surprised on setup or you know how it’s going to play based on your experience, opinion or whatever? Like Shane Lowry kind of ran away with it in 2019? He won by six. Like is it going to be set up where somebody can just go and and kind of take it or is this going to be a a a tight ending here? I think the golf course is one where like if you’re playing well, you you really like lift and separate from like when I say that like it does a great job. and we talked about this with Billy a little bit, but that middle the middle stretch of Port Rush, there’s a lot is going to be talked about about the opening because you get out onto the ocean and there’s some dramatic beautiful golf holes and the finish which has, you know, 15 through 18 is awesome at at Port Rush. Like unforgettable holes. The 16th you’re going to hear so much about. But that middle portion of Port Rush is about as demanding of golf as you can get. And it it sits down a little bit. It’s not by the ocean. Some of the contouring is a little bit smaller, but it’s like this great size. And then the green, a lot of the greens in that section of repel. And it is like you got to be golfing your ball in the middle of the round at Port Rush. And I think um so I think the golf course just in general if you look at Lowry what he did really well is he just dominated in terms of hitting green. Mhm. It is it is a it is a war of attrition out there with ball striking. Uh you need to be just almost machine-like out there or else like you know some of the I think like this is what makes it a little different than a lot of a lot of links older links courses. the greens like the surrounds are severe like it is if you miss screens you can be in some really tough positions it is so I think that’s the the nature of port rush um is and why it’s so taxing ta green is because of the the greens themselves being more like you know everybody always talks about Augusta national these are not Augusta national greens like they aren’t like that but they are more in that vein than a lot of links courses where they have those vicious false fronts, they have these these pretty big hollows that you can get into and then you have to like recover from spots to bother. Yeah. I I mean if I I I just am as a viewer wondering whether it’s going to be a a tight finish at the end. Like obviously Larry ran away with it. Brian Harmon won by five I think it was like and but then you have St. Andrews where it comes down to the final hole you had last year where where Xander only won by two like back nine on Sunday. Are you expecting somebody to to lift and separate or do you think it’s going to be maybe a little tighter? I would expect just a couple people to have a shot to win on the back nine of Sunday is like one of those tournaments where you you know uh where you come in and it’s like you know Pinehurst was this way kind of right where you you Pineur you’re like well might stick around for a little while but yeah yeah Pavon was in the final group but you know but like you’re like okay this is these are you I and that’s what I I I like those tournaments the most where over the course of the of the tournament, it becomes very clear this is the main act. This is who we’re we’re zeroing in. And it’s like Sunday morning, the anticipation builds because it’s like, okay, it’s this guy, this guy, and this guy. Let’s see who has it. You want the heavyweight bout. You want the You want the fight. You want You want the fight card. I maybe the most memorable open recently was the the Phil Stenson Yeah. duel which was one of the greatest greatest tournaments I’ve ever seen, you know. So that’s uh that’s that’s on the table for this week. You’re saying? Well, it’s like that idea of that heavyweight. If you think about like the the greatest majors recently, you know, you put Pinehurst in there. Obviously Rory’s Masters win is like but like you know that was kind of more of like the emotional swings but like again like it said we thought that was going to be a heavyweight bout and then 10 guys had a chance to win by the end of it. Yeah. Yeah. And and but then you go back it’s like you know Phil and uh and uh Brooks and and at Kiwa was like there was only a couple guys that were going to win that golf tournament. uh you know and obviously keep Phil wins. You got the the Phil Stenson one. You know that that is something that I think um is a recipe for really memorable things. It’s it’s like kind of like the other tournaments have so much going on it’s hard to like fixate on exactly. They’re chaotic, right? which which yields like, you know, like if I if you said, “Hey, Colin Marcow’s win at Harding Park.” It’s like, “Well, how many things do you want me to tell you about?” Cuz there was a moment when I thought Matt Wolf was going to win. There was a moment when I thought Scotty Sheffler was going to win and that was like the emergence of Scotty Sheffler. And then there was like, you know, there’s there’s all these other guys. And then, you know, Colin Marco hit a shot and all a sudden he won. He he had one shot that kind of just sealed it went, “Oh, okay. There there we go. That guy won.” Yeah. So, it versus like I think like the the benefit when you have a course that separates players out is that allows you to really soak in and think and feel the gravity and the the importance of every shot. So, do you have a a a draw disparity take heading into Port Rush here? I feel like it’s the number one story line ev every year at the open where just half half of the guys have it’s all weather weather dependent if weather blows in and that can do. We’re going way too long. I almost set this to be 10 minute max with like a meeting on the back of it. So we So we were forced to be brief here. I I guess nobody’s probably complaining, but what’s your last thing? Uh Keegan Bradley. I just it feels like Keegan Bradley is the main character of golf these days. He had a crowbar a St. John’s guy in you know I not to be a Debbie Downer again five straight miscuts at the open it’s been his his worst major uh historically but guys sitting ninth in Rder Cup points right now uh on the one hand does he need to do anything? Does he need to make a cut, snap this streak? Does he need a top 30, top 20? Does he need to contend to really shore this up? or is there anything that he could do extend this miscut streak to six that would leave him off of his own team come September because this is the last I mean unless he’s going to go win the BMW again which is quite possible but for right now we’ll call this the last shot for everybody RDER Cupwise I think he’s pretty locked in like it’s hard for me to believe that he’s going to go from where where we would slot him in probably like if you did the your own slotting of like he’s probably like the seventh or eighth guy on the team. He’s probably even higher honestly. Like if we’re going conservative like seventh or eighth guy, not not just off the points list, whoever is going to point out he’s ninth in points, but like if you run down like any log like a logical golf fan list, seventh or eighth at the low end to 12. like it’s you have to have like a if you miss the cut the rest of the way, I think that’s where you you alarm you s sound the alarms. Um but like when you look at the schedule upcoming like he’s he’s a good fit for the playoffs. Yeah. Um I think Yeah, he it’s kind of surprising he hasn’t played well in the open. He’s such a good ball striker. I mean, he’s he’s he’s only five of 11 in in made cuts even like he just he doesn’t not not even contend as high finished as a T15. He just he doesn’t even play half the time. Yeah. Um All right. My last thing here uh is the last chance. It’s the last major of the year. I think like society, golf culture, the majors over the last, you know, call it five, six years have just gained more and more significance. These guys careers are so defined on majors. Billy kind of talks about this on the pod like and like the the the struggle of playing majors understanding like your your expectation to win them your the society’s like fawning over them there only four of them a year it makes it very hard makes it extremely hard like you know I think like you think about like a career like Chris Paul who just announced his last year in the NBA like his he’s had this unbelievable career. One of the great point guards of all time has never won an NBA championship is like second line. Yeah. Of his career. And it’s similar with golf where it could be you could be talking about like one like Greg Norman. Greg Norman is a perfect example as was by far the best player in the world of golf for a very long time. Outstanding driver of the golf ball. incredible ball striker only two major championships, you know, like that is just like so quick. So, if you start to think about the last chance, right, you’ve got Bryson who I think like Bryson and Brahm and are are kind of in their like own bucket. I think they have elevated themselves at this top pier top of the pyramid. Um, your career, your your year is really defined based off of major success. Um, in a different bucket, you’ve got Morowan and Xander. Xander’s interesting just because of the injury. Defending champion obviously of the Open. The injury has been weird. He’s playing well this week with the Scottish. Who knows if that could be like I I’m almost giving him pass because of the injury year. It’s been the worst year of his career. Morau, we touched on earlier. And then final person I’m putting in this bucket is Brooks. Um, who obviously has five majors. his his whole career has been defined by major championships, not success in other tournaments. Like most most guys, it’s like, well, he’s won all these other tournaments. For Brooks, it’s like he’s got five majors. Like, hey, if you’re if you’re into Phoenix, I mean, I guess he’s got that a couple of times, but other than that, sure. And and I think the thing with Brooks, the added layer with Brooks here is uh is Ricky Elliott being from Northern Ireland. Yep. them being in the mix last time it was at Port Rush, you could tell they really wanted to win it for Ricky. I mean, like Ricky’s a legend in Port Rush and uh and so so Brooks would be in this bucket. And then the other uh aspect of these players are like the JT, the Levig, the Victor. Um for Levig and and Victor, uh the these are things that would alter the the discourse of them uh their career and how we discuss them. And I think what’s interesting about Victor, he’s been sniffing around a lot at majors the last couple years. Like you know the the way you win a major is you get into contention at a lot of majors and like Xander is a perfect example of that last year. Yeah. Oh, you can’t win. He’s can’t get it done. Can’t get it done. Like the marker when the discourse be becomes you can’t get it done on Sunday. That means you’re closer than ever at getting it done on a Sunday. And I think that’s like the interesting thing I would I would highlight. I’m taking Victor this week and that’s why. Uh, do you have a pick? I’m taking Big Shot Bob. Another guy who’s sniffed around in in Open Championships, almost just backed his way into a US Open. Uh, but I’m going Bobby Mack. I I He’s been so good the last two months. Everything that data golf page is very very green for the last two months for Bobby Mack. So, I think he’s he’s trending and uh I feel pretty good. Honestly, I don’t know how I feel how great it is that it’s the week after a Super Bowl at the Scottish Open, but that’s my pick right now. All right, uh PJ, thanks for coming on and hitting the story lines. Uh we’ll kick it over to Billy. This is this was really fun chat. So, um hope everybody enjoys the Billy Horell and uh and and we will uh we’ll talk to you at the end here. [Music] All right, Billy, thanks for coming back on. Excited to talk about uh the Open. Uh what’s going on with you? The Open last year, which was an incredible tournament that you were a uh a key character of. Uh you know, I was talking with uh PJ actually. You know, one of the things that we’ve been missing all year is Billy Horchel. Um how how are you doing? Uh how’s the hip? And uh where are you at uh in in terms of your rehab? Yeah, everything’s going really well. It’s uh two months now since my surgery. Um rehab and recovery is uh progressing nicely. Haven’t had any setbacks, which is which is always nice. Um started hitting balls this week. Um working can work up to about a sixiron. Can give it like 50% effort, but I don’t know what 50% effort is. I’m probably more about 60 70%. Uh, so yeah, I mean, I’m following, you know, the instructions as as much as I can and and hopefully in a couple weeks I’ll be able to work into to slowly hitting some woods and and um but uh yeah, everything so far is going well and and looking forward to get back out here in hopefully in a couple months. I feel like if you’re taking a lesson and somebody tells you to swing 60%. Like the ball still comes out about the same as if you swing if you’re swinging all out at it. So I imagine 50%. That’s dicey. It probably is is a lot as you said a lot higher than that. What’s been the uh hardest part about not being out there? Oh, you know, I’ve been asked this question a little bit and um I think, you know, right around my surgery or just before I pretty much just sort of shut my my golf side off, you know, what I’ve the way my brain works and and what I’ve solely been focused on in a personal um in a singular aspect for for decades now. Um I just shut it off because I I knew I wasn’t going to be playing. I knew I wasn’t going to be practicing. time soon. I didn’t want to sort of, you know, this was a perfect time for me to to hang out with my family, be a part of my kids’ life a little bit more, you know, hang out with my wife more. Um, just sort of really um ingrain myself into my family on a on a full basis without having to worry about going to practice and play and everything. So, um, but the thing I I have missed is when I do watch on Sundays, you know, seeing guys competing to have a chance to win. That’s that’s what I miss is not not being out there, not having that opportunity to to win golf tournaments. But, um, but for the most part, like I said, I mean, I haven’t really I haven’t really missed golf. I really haven’t. Um, I’ve enjoyed being home. I’ve enjoyed being a dad, taking my kids to to their practices and taking them to their sporting events and and and not, you know, you know, waking up in the morning. Yeah, I’m going to the gym to to to rehab and other stuff, but I get to come home. I don’t have to worry about going out to practice. I can just hang out the house and and and just relax, which is which has been, like I said, been pretty nice. Yeah. you’re getting like the uh the a slice of early retirement, but then you go back out there, which is like, you know, perfect. Um I I you mentioned uh watching on Sundays. How connected to the to the game have you stayed? Um I mean, other than watching through the TV, that’s about it. I mean, I obviously I still talk to to quite a few guys and and quite a few guys have reached out to check in on me how I’ve been doing. Um but but other than that I haven’t you know there’s the connection there is it’s like how everyone says you know when you’re away from the tour you’re away from the tour you know you have your friends and you have certain people reach out to you but other than that you feel like uh you know some people can feel like a little lost that they’re not not u connected or they’re missing out or they’re not in in the grain that they’ve always been of of knowing what’s going on out on tour and the ins and outs and all the little things. What um you know, you’ve you’ve effectively been a fan watching on Sundays. Yeah. Um what what are your observations as a fan of golf and like I feel like not a lot of tour players they think they like don’t get to be a fan as you said like this is probably like one of the first times you’ve had a a long break where you just watch golf. Like what what have your observations been as a fan? I I should be probably I I I need to be careful in how I I say some of this. Um I think some of the stuff that uh with the technology aspect of it um I with with both CBS NBC I think they’re doing some really unique things and different things. Um you know when when I think of stuff sometimes I’m thinking about how to make things better and not always focusing on what’s really good right right then and now. That’s what podcasts are for. You know, people say, you know, it’s a place to dream and talk about things that you think could could change. I I’ll say what I’ve always said for a while now because I’ve always watched a lot of golf. I’ve always been a golf fan. I’m a golf fan at heart. Before I was a PJ Tour player, ever thought about playing the PJ tour, I loved watching golf and I watched every minute of golf I possibly could. Um, I think coming from a tour aspect and a and a view of way I see things and understand things and and what I would want. I think some of the analyst is is too too cherry a little bit. I think we, you know, you need that Johnny Miller in there. And I’ve said this for a long time. I you need someone that’s going to call, you know, be critical of guys when they hit bad shots or decisions or anything. I I don’t I don’t think anyone comes across strong enough and I don’t think anyone does it to what I would say um at a good at a at a decent level. Um as for me as a fan watching golf and like I said, I have a I’m a PJ tour player. I have a PJ Tour brain. I understand what a good golf shot is. I understand what a bad golf shot is. A lot of the viewers do, too, but maybe not as indepth as mine. But, you know, we we need to be critical of us as as as tour players. If someone hits a wedge shot from 40, you know, from 120 yards at 40 ft, that’s a that’s awful. Like, let’s let’s call him out. Let’s say that’s, you know, especially if it’s, you know, with four holes left to play and he’s tied for lead or one back. That’s pressure. That’s that’s clearly has to be pressure. He’s afraid of missing that shot. He’s afraid of pulling the shot. Like, let’s beat Johnny Miller a little bit. Like, I miss Johnny Miller. I know people gave Johnny Mill a lot of um you know, a lot of crap from here and there, but man, he when I watch the old coverages, I have a a greater appreciation for the way he did his job in his booth for so many decades. Yeah. I I mean, I think like the key to longevity, too, is um is is doing that because then you don’t get old because you’re just saying what’s really on your mind, right? when you try and sugar when you sugarcoat stuff like you lose the spectrum of of your potential uh ability to like talk on a subject, right? Because you’re limiting what you can say. Um I think uh I think one of the things Let me stop you. Let me let me stop you. You know, I just had a thought come in my head. Yeah. Like and a lot of the the the analysts there now, you know, there and and you have to create a relationship with players like to do a good job. you have to create a relationship to grow on the range and and get information and everything. But I’m not sure if they’re afraid to be critical because they’re going to lose that aspect of it. And if it is that way, then us as tour players were too soft. And if someone’s going to criticize, you know, our decision or what, you know, call us out on stuff like that’s the name of the game. That’s what they’re doing as an analyst. That’s what they should do. Sam Burns at the US Open. Birdie’s number 10 um in the final round. Goes to number 11. He has a I don’t know 180 yard shot up the hill, whatever it was. And when he said they had when he said when they said he had seven iron, I was like, I don’t think that’s enough club cuz I know Sam, I know how far he hits his club. He hits it further than me, but with a you know, I don’t think the yardage took into effect the uphill second shot on uphill lie. Maybe Sam and Travis was a little worried with the water running down, maybe catching a little flyer with the water and going over the green, but Sam comes up short, gets super unlucky to be plugged or beyond that lip, however it was. But in my aspect of it, that probably should have been a sixiron there. You know, you got a lot of green to work with. You know, seven iron is that enough to carry the bunker. You know, be a little critical. Like I don’t, if I remember correctly, like that wasn’t critical uh in that aspect there. I I thought also in that regard the T-OT was a real mistake too because the you know like he in normal conditions I think he hit 3-wood. Um I think that was the right club but the weather was it was like kind of like piss and rain and the ball’s not going anywhere and you have to hit something especially with how soft the turf is. You know, you have you’re worried about that creek that cuts through, but with how soft it was, the ball’s not gonna roll into the creek and there was a misplay off the tea and none. It was like all like, oh, bad luck. It was like, no, maybe a a misplayed golf hole. You know, you can you can say a little bit of bad luck, but maybe the decision making, maybe the the club selection off the team, maybe the club selection to the green probably wasn’t the right one. And yeah, you can look back after a shot, but before he hit that shot, I was saying seven iron is not enough club. I don’t think that’s enough club. And maybe it’s because I just saw someone before him hit a seven iron come up short in the bunker, I think it was, or whatever. Um, and Sam’s hitting a seven iron from maybe five yards further. I’m like, that’s got to be a sixiron Sam. you know, but you know, there’s like I said, I I think that aspect like that’s a we you know, it we we I think as as fans and as players and everyone like you you want to you want to show how great we are and and when we hit great shots, hit great shots. But when we hit bad shots or or we choke or we do something that the pressure gets to us or you know if you think it’s a mental, you know, he’s got a little mental yip action, you know, because of the shot he hit or whatever, like let’s call us out on that. Like that’s that just sort of creates a little bit of edge. I think that’s, you know, something great that viewers would love to see. Um like I said, I don’t know. I grew up in the era with Johnny Miller and I think Johnny Miller is the best and and I always I’ve always thought that way. particularly the back nine on Sunday is like what you’re talking about. You’re talking about like what golf is. You’re talking about the essence of golf is that by the culmination of the back n on Sunday, you are at like peak decision-m and execution moments where the margins just shrink down. And that part of it is because of what you’re feeling as a player in that moment. like you are amped up and you are going through this like you know you’re trying to to bring home in that situation the biggest win of your career for everybody on that board for the most part and you know like the execution the decision-m becomes so razor thin because you know like I think like every time I get done with a major I just am like god like what’s crazy is like a bounce here a bounce there you could talk yourself into like almost like 10 guys getting it done outside of the times where like you know a player just runs away and is clearly the best you know and it is that is what’s amazing about golf and why some of those decision m decisions need to be like scrutinized and looked at with like a fine comb like did did they do the right thing because that’s the difference between you know winning and and and losing and I think for Sam Burns like he hit some really good shots on that back nine but he also hit some really bad shots and and the bad shots like you know, he had uh on the what was it the short on 12 he had he hit one of the worst wedges I’ve seen like a pro in contention hit from you know where he basically missed the I think he missed the green on 12 from 90 yards you know and it’s like that’s just you know not good enough in in that in that moment. Um but uh let’s talk about uh the open. We’ll talk about you uh in contention last year. Uh this this was a this was an awesome uh weekend uh at the Open just in general. Uh I imagine that there are moments and uh shots that run through your head. I feel like when you play tournament golf, you get like these like vivid like movies in your head of moments from last year. Are there particular things that you think about often? The honest answer, no. See, that’s good. Short memory. I mean, I mean, I can remember every shot I hit and and you know, what I felt like and and emotions I was feeling and, you know, everything, you know, during the shot. Uh I you know there’s times that I’ll catch myself looking back but a lot of times I’m always I’m so focused on moving forward and and and what’s the next thing and getting there again that you know sometimes you don’t you don’t sit back and yeah you know I didn’t win the open but I played great. I had a you know um I had a chance to win. I finished second best finish of of my um career in a major and and um you know probably should have you know when I look back at I say this every time even after win I should probably enjoy this more and let it soak in and and and and take it all in but I’m always so much of moving on to the next thing but uh I think some shots I think about just some some great bunker shots I hit um at the same time I think about some awful iron shots I hit an awful iron shot in the final round on number 10. Um, I hit an awful iron shot on number 16, the third round. Uh, my third shot, uh, you know, it was I flared it right into the bunker and plugged it, but I hit a great bunker shot and almost hold it out. Um, you know, burning number 18 on on Sunday, burning 16, 17, 18 to finish. Um, so, um, yeah, I mean there’s there’s shots that I can easily call, but I just don’t go back and and and you know, yeah, I I’m sort of caught off guard when it does come um when I am caught, you know, thinking about it. The uh the Saturday round in particular was like one of the great like just holding it together. It felt like like just like keeping the ship going going forward rounds in in in probably in your career. Yeah, you’re exactly right. I mean, honestly, I mean, the way um the conditions were and everything, it was more or less like get the ball, go forward. I don’t really care how far it goes. As long as it’s going forward and not left or right too much, like we are winning at this game. And um yeah, it was I I can’t say it was the toughest conditions I played in cuz the toughest conditions I played in was the second round of Dunhill in 202 or three I think it was. Um my wife has got him so it was 22. Yeah, it was it was nasty weather um that we played in. But um yeah, that that day uh in that round, and I’ve said this many times, I don’t I don’t think I would have played as well if I wasn’t paired with someone like Justin and Fooch, for Rosie and Foo. They’re two great friends of mine. Um we have mutual respect for each other and we both are just guys that grind it out. you know, when when you’re grinding it out and you’re making a score and you have someone else doing the same thing, it’s sort of you guys are, you know, fist pumping each other and sort of pulling for each other, even though we’re in one of the last groups on a third round of a major, you’re pulling for each other. Now, if I had was playing with someone who was just threw in the towel, you know, made a couple bad holes and just threw in the towel, like that just sort of brings the whole mood down in the group that it’s Yeah, you’re you’re letting the conditions uh get the better of you. But um you know, I’ve always enjoyed playing in stuff like that and like I said um you know I obviously it was a great pairing to have and and I think you know Rosie and I played beautifully in those conditions. I think you hit on uh you know core essence of the open. Um I think you know golf is is unique in what you just said like you’re you’re you and Rosie are in the thick of it have both have a great chance to win late in a tournament that you know career definfing moments for both of you. Um, and because of the additional element of the open, which is the element, the idea of of weather, you know, you’re playing the course in any golf tournament. You’re building almost like a a house when you think about a four round golf round and the first round’s a foundation. Just like we don’t screw this up, we’ve got a chance to build up, right? and you’re but you’re you’re doing this on your own and you’re competing at the same time but you’re playing against the course and when you get those elements like I think you hit on it totally when you’re playing a particularly it feels like challenging mentally challenging round of golf that player that you’re out there battling with becomes like if you’re both going through like you can draft off each other in there and it’s it’s so true and I don’t know if there’s ever been analytical studies has done on it. But like sometimes you just come across bad vibe groups where like things aren’t going well and it’s easy to get down on your luck as a group. Um with the open when the elements turn um is how’s that you know and I guess this is a Lynx golf question. what are the the skill sets and the types of um traits that you need to have for when you know the open or any links tournament can get particularly challenging. I I you know I think uh I can’t remember how I phrased it last year after the third round, but you you’re not you don’t care about hitting it perfect. You don’t care about what the swing looks like. you don’t care how how far it goes. Um you’re hoping that it hits somewhere in the center of the face and the ball goes straight. Like I mean when I’m playing those conditions, like I feel like I’m not swinging that hard. I feel like it’s a shorter golf swing. I feel like the ball’s not going up in the air. I’m keeping it, you know, out of the wind, out of the out of the elements as much as I can. Um you know, it it’s not pretty golf. It’s a it you know the score and the way you do it can look can sort of look pretty but the way it feels and the way you know what you how you want it to look and everything can look ugly and um you know I think it’s just sort of like managing it you know h how am I going to hit this shot from 100 I remember yeah like the third like I said 16 the third round my third shot I had likeundred and maybe 20 yards And I was doing between six and seven. I thought I could chip a little six and I, you know, just, you know, didn’t make a great, you know, little chippy action. I flared it out to the right. And I was like, man, maybe it should have just been a hard seven. Play it back your stance and just put it even lower. Maybe even run it up the green a little bit. But, you know, it’s one of those things where I just say you you find a way to get it done. Um, I think that’s what the best players who played in those conditions have always done. Um, you know, they’re not worried about making a swing look pretty. You’re not worried about how far the ball goes. I mean, you’re really not I mean, you are worried about hitting the center of face, but you know, with the technology now, you know, you can be a little off center with a missit and the ball’s still going to go fairly straight. So, um, yeah, it’s it’s a survival golf is what it is. In a way, like listening to you talk about this, is it is it kind of almost a return to when you were younger, more naive and knew less about golf? It becomes more like golf as a kid. Yeah. You’re just trying to hit shots. You’re trying to figure out how to hit this shot. You know, you know, you’re trying to hit like a 20 yard low hook. You know, what club I’m going to hit like a 20 yard low hook or or if I’m trying to play a bump and run shot. Uh I remember hitting on number 10 11 that was a 12 13 the par4 played really long. Um I hit driver and I tried to hit like a two iron. I flared it short right of the green. I think Rosie made hit three-wood. He hit a beautiful shot. Um I think it was 3-wood. He hit a beautiful shot like on the front edge of the green from like 190 yards and he hits it 300 270 yards. So um but I had this stance over in my third shot that ball was like above my feet but I was on a severe downhill lie in the f in like the heather or whatever. Um, and I was trying to figure out how to hit this. And I was 50 yards from the hole. And And I knew if I hit a 56, I was going to have to hit it really hard and it was going to get up in the air too much. And I’m like, if I hit a 52, there was this hill in front of me about 7 to 10 yards that it may not clear. And I was like, well, I got to take the 52 because I’m not hitting something up in the air. And it I hit the 52. barely clears a hill, hits a down slope, runs out there, has a whole bunch of, you know, uh, momentum to the ball, checks a little bit with all the water and the wind, the ball stops, right? Almost goes in. I think I almost flipped it out. And I was like, you know, you just figure out how how to hit a shot. It It doesn’t matter how it looks. Um, you’re just sort of using as much imagination as you possibly can. I I think that like a a perfect a perfectly executed like chip that has like a little run to it is one of the it’s one of the greatest feelings in golf when you’re just watch and you know right when you clip it it’s just right. Yes. Um you I I would say and I I I you know I you know in the case of being blunt I I’m not I’m not mischaracterizing your your Link’s career here. It was not great. It felt like uh it feels like 2022. You had a T-21 at the old course and that kind of started. Is there something that that changed in your um in your approach to the open or is something about your game and and finding something that that really uh that allowed uh you to become more of a well-rounded player that you started to play better in in Lynx golf? Yeah, I think there’s a couple things. Um I think early on the first five or six years of my career, maybe seven in at the links um at the Open Championship, I mean, we all know this can happen, but five out of seven of those, I was on the the worst draw you could possibly get. I mean, not not just I was on a bad draw, I was on the worst like the the literally the worst little hour 90minut stretch of of tea times. Like that was where I was set up. is one of the core elements of the open. It is. It is. And and I think you know through that I may have not handled those situations as well. Um obviously I didn’t handle as well because I missed a cut. Simple as that. Um but I think the big thing was when I started playing the Dunhill um links championship uh on the DP World Tour at the back end of the year. Um I love going to the St. changes and I I I enjoy it so much. But playing three rounds of links, four rounds of Lynx course uh of golf, playing in conditions that in late September, early October in Scotland can be sort of iffy. Um really, you know, improved, you know, just my knowledge, my understanding. I always felt I had the the game, I always felt I had all the shots. It was understanding when to hit certain shots. there’s understanding what a good score was, how to play certain holes in the conditions and um you know just all that knowledge that you gain. And so that started in 21. I go to 22 um at St. Andrews. I play really well. I had unfortunately 10 three putts that week. That’s on the green. That’s not off the green. That’s 10. So uh you know that was a little bummer because I played really well and I and I puted the worst I possibly could uh for four days. Um, you know, and then 23, where were we in 23? 23 would have been uh uh um not true. 23 uh Hoy Lake. Ho ho again. Um that was one where I I I didn’t play that bad. I just made a couple bad swings, you know, didn’t it, you know, takes chances of momentum, but I felt comfortable with myself on link style courses and and um you know, I was it was finally nice to see, you know, a result happen in the open because I I love the Open so much. I I love the fans. I love the history. I love the courses. I love everything about golf over there. like missing the Genesis this week, the Scottish Open, and missing the open these two weeks. This is the first time in two months that I’ve actually been like, “God damn, I this sucks.” Like I I I wish I was over there. I I feel similar similarly, one of my co two of my colleagues are going over. I’m not going over and I’m just kind of like, “Ah, God.” And like, yeah, it’s funny you say like going to the Dunhill. I uh I spent a week in St. Andrews earlier this year and it’s like if I were if I were a pro golfer and it it makes actually total sense, right? Like this is one of the majors of the year, one of the four majors. And the Dunhill is like it offers you an opportunity to go hang out in like one of the greatest towns in in in the world of golf. And during when school is in session, which I think like heightens like when you go play an open there, it’s kind of it’s not really like the vibrant college town. Correct. It it become but like the Dunnh Hill week the school’s in session. It’s this vibrant college town with like all sorts of culture and and it’s like one of the coolest things but as you illuminated I mean this is like this is just opportunity to expose yourself to the type of golf. And I think like one of the things that gets like sometimes forgotten about golf is like so much of setup and golf courses like types of golf courses dictate who’s going to play well. Like I think it’s like very interesting when you look at like um US Open sectional qualifying, right? Like there are guys that just get out every year from the same site and it’s not they should not have like this overwhelming but like certain setups, certain styles of golf lead to different types of players. We see it with like people that are really in the weeds on gambling. Like yeah, there are like courses for courses and like exposing giving giving yourself the opportunity to expose yourself to the types of shots and gain that valuable experience on Lynx Golf. And I think like what you know, one of the things I’m fascinated by with the Open is like the age the average age of of contenders in major championships in almost every major has gone like is plummets down, right? The older championships are the Masters, which has like a very complex course. And the open, the open is like the the the tournament that like pro golfers of all ages have like a shot, but it’s actually like it’s a it’s a really wide spectrum. If you look at it, it’s significantly older, the average age of say the top 10 than every other major. And to me, like the vast majority of Americans have so little experience playing that style of golf. And that’s why you see that that average age tick up. Yeah, I I think um you know I tell all my friends, anyone I come across when they ask about wing style courses or playing over there, I was like if you go over there, I’d be hardressed if you came back and you told me that you rather play American courses more than links courses more because I think it allows um anyone of any level to be able to play well there. You don’t have to fly the ball every time onto the green. You can run the ball up. you can bounce the ball up. There’s other ways to get the ball closers. You know, you can in America, you know, if a guy drives at 230, he drives at 230, he may only hit at 220, it rolls out 10 yards. Over there, depending on type, you know, how much weather they’ve had, he can hit at 220 and he could run out 50 yards. And I mean, how nice. I mean, that’s for anyone to be able to gain 50 yards and hit five less clubs into a green or four less clubs, like they’re going to enjoy the golf even more. So, it’s just so unique and there’s so many options and a way to play the game of golf and obviously that’s where it started and that’s how you know um you know we the game I I can’t say ultimately should be played because you can’t have you can’t recreate that everywhere in the world but it’s just the foundation of of of golf and it’s so fun to go over there because like I said and and I tell guys said try to hit shots listen to your caddy if he’s telling you hit a five iron and and sort of play like a little bump shot or, you know, a little half shot and only hit like 100 yards and let it roll out 80 yards. Like do that. He’s telling you cuz he knows how this needs to be played. And um and I think the caddies make it such a great experience as well over there. It’s it’s funny. You know, one of the good the players that’s played well at the open that’s a young player. I And it’s like it was a it was a big story at Hoy Lake was this Matthew Jordan who grew up playing Hoy Lake, right? M and he’s not I would say like he’s not like of the tier of world class player but like here he is he’s earned his spot in the open three now now it’s his second year a row playing on an exemption of finishing in the top 12 of last year’s open it’s like experience on lynx golf is so important to playing and I think there’s like almost like an embrace of lynx golf that has to happen in order for you to play well like Phil Mickelson talked about this like it took him a long time to like learn to love links golf. I’m kind of curious uh with like with the week of the open, you go to these places. Is there anything that’s different for you with like the town or anything that you do differently uh when you’re over there than a normal week on the PGA tour or a normal major week for that matter in America? Yeah, I mean over there u majority of times obviously I’ll have a house and I’ll have you know pretty much everyone on my team stay in the house and you know you know through the years we usually have gone out to dinner and then we go to a pub and hang out for an hour or we go to a pub before and have dinner and then go to dinner like we just we we get out of of the house and you know it’s nice for me because I get my mind away from golf and just enjoying being over there and and having a great time and you know, you know, sometimes there’s other golfers and caddies that we meet up with and uh there’s other times where we’re just in there and the locals will come over and chat chat with us a little bit and so it’s it’s a cool little aspect in a sense of of of of that. Um, you know, it’s it may be a little bit tougher over the last couple years because of where we stay and then there’s so many, you know, there’s a good thing and bad thing. so many fans that sort of stay in town, you sort of get bombarded a little bit. Um, and but it is a cool aspect when you can just go hang out at a pub and just sit there, you know, have a pint or two, you know, talk with your buddies, you know, um, you know, if there’s some locals in there that have been there for years and decades, you know, they tell they tell you stories, which some of their stories are so great to hear. So, yeah. Yeah. I uh I I can totally understand how it could be overwhelming if it’s an area that like a lot of fans are staying in. It’s where sometimes even the remote ones where there’s very limited lodging, it ends up better because everybody like shuttles in and out and they aren’t around after after uh after rounds. Um you know, you brought up your team. Uh, I think like I there’s there’s been some news lately uh a more high pro I feel like you know we go in waves of high-profile players making changes to their team and it feels like this year is a is a high turnover team uh team year just in general coach changes caddy changes um is continuity one of the most underrated aspects in in prog golf to you. Yeah, I I believe so. And and listen, I’ve made I’ve made my fair share of caddy changes. Um pretty much every co the coach I’ve had the coaches have all been there and stayed there, but the caddies have come and gone a little bit and and and more or less it’s it’s what I need over a period of time like what I needed in that aspect and right then and there for a caddy like that’s who I would hire and that’s what I got. And then, you know, I’d go out of that and I would want something else from a caddy, you know. Um, and so, uh, so I tell guys like it’s okay to make changes in caddies like cuz you got to find something that works for you and what you’re looking for and you know, and sometimes it takes a little while to go through a few changes with caddies. Now, with the coaches aspect, I’m always I think if you’ve had success with a coach for a while and you know, let’s say you go through a little rut, like it’s you see a lot of guys change patty. I mean coaches like it’s it’s nothing like oh this guy’s not good enough for me anymore you know I I played bad the last six eight months um it’s not working anymore which is weird because it worked for so long and yeah you’re going to go through a little lull and you got to you know this is where communication with your coach comes in and discuss you know your goals and what you want and and you also you have to be open to to hearing criticism from your coach because you may have changed and how you being and and how you know he may be trying to coach you the same but you’re not listening the saying you’re not soaking it all in and you you’re not listening to what he’s trying to tell you. Um you know I had so um you know I see that a lot and you see when that happens guys’s games don’t ultimately get better. You know majority of time I think if you did the statistics guys that have had cat coaches for a while and they’ve had success and then they go through a little you know low where it’s not as good you know they make a coach change majority of time you know it doesn’t work out. I’m going to say better than 75% of the time it doesn’t work out. I mean, I could have easily made a coaching change in 23 when when I was playing bad and and could have told Todd Anderson, “Hey, Todd, you know, we’ve had at that point, it would have been 16 years together. We’ve had 16 great years together.” Um, I just I think, you know, it’s time for me to go in a different direction. I just not sure if this is working anymore. And I never had that thought. You know, we Todd and I Todd’s one of my best friends. Um, we’ve had we had conversations and I told him what I, you know, what I was struggling with, you know, what I was, you know, was expecting, you know, he told me, you know, some things about me and and so it was a it was a great communication and open line that we’ve always had and and and at the same time, why would I want to change when this guy for the last 16 years has got me to a high level where we’ve won at that point, you know, seven times on the PJ tour and we’ve won on DP World Tour and you know, we made a President’s Cup team together. Like, I’ve had a ton of success with him. Like, it’s going to be pretty hard to find someone else that’s going to duplicate that. But at the same time, what I also see with players is that they go to coaches and change coaches without understanding the way that coach teach. And they don’t understand the way their body works. And and the way that coach teach and and and what he does may not work with how your body, you know, ultimately uh functions. Um, you know, there’s some teachers out there that sort of work with what you have. And there’s other teachers that are really stuck into their their mold of hey, we need to do this. This is how I think the swing should be and your body possibly can’t do that. Yeah. I I the coach thing is is a I do I think continuity is just like it’s like anything like you you get in any sort of long-term relationship you get to the point where you just like understand somebody at a deeper level and there’s like even it’s just like things you can communicate even without saying anything right it’s the idea it’s also having the the memory bank of being able to recall back five years before when maybe something similar was happening and it looked looks okay, but like hey, you remember we we did this with this hip and you know this it’s like that’s I think the thing that you miss when you when you’re constantly hopping around is you miss that recall bank that idea of like being able to go back and like look at like this and so I you know I I think like the caddy thing’s an interesting uh element to it where like it can also so sour. On the opposite end, I think everybody always thinks about like the player, you know, getting like sometimes like the caddy can get tired of hearing the message from the player back, right? Because like a catty’s in a tough position where like they’re, you know, they’re dependent on the player hitting the shot, you know, and listen, I I I won’t I won’t lie. I had a caddy fire me. I got fired by a caddy. Like it was okay. And he’s a great friend of mine. Um, and we’ve had conversations since then, but he’s a great friend of mine and we still are. And, you know, I understand at the moment in time, you know, you know, what was going on and the decision he made. You know, I didn’t, you know, obviously it sucked cuz I thought this was going to be the guy I was going to be with for a while, but, you know, ultimately it didn’t work out. And it’s fine. you know, it’s it’s like I said, that that aspect is so tough because you’re with that person so much and you see them so much and um you know, but I think you know, you talking about continuity, you know, my teacher Todd talks about this like look at the best players in the world. Bro’s been with his coach since she’s been a kid. You know, Scotty’s been with his coach since she was a kid. Jordan Spe has been with his coach since she was a kid. Justin Thomas has been with his dad forever. Um I mean, I’m trying to think of who else is in the top of the world. Lbig’s been with his coach since he’s been a while. John Rom. John Rom. You know, he’s been with Dave Phillips. Yeah. You know, for since he was in college, you know, and so there there is that, like you said, you know, there is that memory bank of going back to things and and trusting. And then then there just that unspoken stuff like he understands you without having without you having to say anything. And and Todd knows it with me, like when I get frustrated, you know, when we’re working and and there’s times when I’m frustrated and he’s trying to tell me something and I’m just not listening, like he just sort of he’ll just be quiet and he knows within 10 to 20 minutes, you know, I’m going to get out of my little get my panties out of a wad and I’m going to realize, okay, what was that that you were telling me, TA? Okay, I yeah, I get that. You know, that works. Yeah, you know, I’ll come back to him cuz I know what he’s saying at that moment in time is correct. But there’s just a wall right there where I just don’t want to hear it. I don’t want I’m frustrated. I just want to, you know, hit balls as hard as I can and be frustrated and get all the frustration out and then when that’s all gone and insane Billy comes back, then we can have then he can start teaching me again. I that’s you know I think like what you hit on I continu like something I find interesting about the game right now is I feel like there’s like a a tier of players that have elevated up and if you look at at at that tier of players there’s a simplicity uh almost like even Bryson like Bryson doesn’t have a coach out there you know uh with him like on the but like there is a simplicity to the approach to the game and if you look at that it’s it’s for the most part continuity uh continuity and belief in what they’re working on and it’s not like you know like Bryson did the speed thing but he’s been on the pursuit of like a lot of the princ the core principles have stayed the same about how he swings the club how he approaches the game but like there is a simplicity and that simplicity simplicity in the golf swing comes generally I believe from continuity of the thesis of what you’re trying to build with a coach. Agreed. And I’ll take it I’ll add one little piece to it. You know, Brett McCabe, he’s a nice sports psychologist. U you know, you talk about belief in what you’re doing, you know, one little piece I add on to is ownership. Like you own what you’re doing. Like I may believe what TA is telling me and I may believe what I’m doing is is is correct but until I fully own it where I put it into my own words and my own fields you know that really work um that is when I think it fully comes together because you know Todd may tell me something and and what the way he’s you know telling me to feel it or give me some feels or or something like that um you know is correct. I’ve got to figure out my way of sort of putting that little puzzle together. like am I going to there’s a field he tell me tells me is that correct or is that the feel I like or is there another feel and and TA is very you know great at if I say hey I understand what you’re telling me and I understand this feel but you know I’m feeling it this way and I’m like if if I’m feeling it this way is I’m we still getting the results that you want with my feel and he’s like yeah and so that I took ownership of that into my golf swing. Yeah. And and as we saw at like the PGA where Scotty’s kind of going haywire on the front nine, it came back to a feel, right? Yeah. That that idea of a feel and that’s what flips the switch and allows him to save, you know, I I think a lot about like that round. And it’s like where where Scotty’s like impressive at at this point in his career, maybe most impressive is his lack of scar tissue, right? like he hasn’t had had a major moment where it’s like, oh man, he messed up. Yeah. Yeah. And he lost something. Yeah. He and that was that to me felt like the the moment where like his career and in and his his feel the way he feels inside the ropes in a major championship could have changed. And because he turns it around there, he comes out unscathed and it’s still like he’s perfect with 54 hole leads. Like he’s like, you know, like he’s this guy that like nobody wants to see. And it and there like I feel like with golf you’re looking for that little like edge with someone. It’s like well like you know if you’re if you’re chasing him it’s like well he did fumble it at at at Quill Hollow. Like this is you know you’re looking for hope sometimes. And I think what’s interesting with him now is like he heads to this tournament that, you know, of all the majors, he’s had the least success, but I mean, it’s not like he’s been bad. His game works everywhere. and he goes to this this major and it feels like, you know, he he almost won at Oakmont with despite like having a pretty bad week on the Greens and and and he comes to this major and it’s like God like, you know, it’s just he’s he’s a quintessential perfect major player because of how simple the the the swing and the approaches. Yeah. It’s just it’s the consistency in which he strikes the ball, consistency of his iron play, you know? I mean, even when he’s off, his distance control isn’t that bad or or the dispersion isn’t that bad. So, it’s very tight and he gets away with it. And and yeah, I mean, you said, you know, as a competitor, like you’re like, man, where’s my hope? Where am I going to get it? And, you know, if if I played if I was ever in a final group, I’m like, okay, you know, if Scotty plays Scotty, it’s going to be tough. There’s no doubt about it. But, you know, Scotty’s prone to missing some short putts. party’s Scotty’s prone to you know getting when he’s in greenside bunkers hitting a shank or two or hitting a bad greenside bunker shot and so you know and then you know if you know obviously he hasn’t driven the ball as well as of late you know going back to the PJ championship and maybe before the PJ championship maybe the week or two before um so maybe if his if he has a little if he’s driving it you know um if he’s been a little off his driver like I may be able to get a shot here or two away you uh if he hits a bad drive depending on the situation. So you you just uh you know it’s one thing I learned from Tiger is you just got to stay in it. You don’t you know you don’t have to do anything special like everyone he talked about like everyone you know when they played him they had to do something special to beat him and he didn’t really do anything special. Yes, there would be times he went out there and shot a 65 or 67 in the final round. But you look at his final round scoring average. It’s nothing like, you know, jaw-dropping, but he let everyone else beat them. You know, he he let everyone, you know, beat themselves because he knew that they felt that they had to do something special. And so, if you have that mentality like, okay, I’m just going to stay in it. You know, it’s the same thing when I play with, you know, with Rory Mroy. Roy’s going to drive the ball great. Roy’s going to do it. But if I stay in it and I don’t make any mistakes and do anything stupid trying to, you know, catch him, you know, if he makes us, if he stumbles up, then I have a chance of catching him or beating him. Now, if he doesn’t, hey, you know what? Maybe I have to do something at the end, the last four or five holes, whatever it may be to do something, try and get him. But, you know, if I don’t catch him, then it’s tippy cap. It’s the same thing with Scotty Sheffller. you know, it’s just those those guys that, you know, are just sort of really special, you know, and and can be, I guess people would say, intimidating. Um, you know, people try to do more than what they are able to do uh above their ability. And as long as you can stay in your play within yourself and play your game, you’re gonna have a chance more than likely come the end because that person may be realizing that a Scotty Sheffller or Roy, hey man, he’s not making any mistakes. You know, he’s, you know, yeah, he’s not doing anything special, but he’s just hanging around. And it’s sort of like a little like a little, you know, what is it? Insect or whatever. You know, just always buzzing around you. You can’t get rid of it. and then you know they mess up and make a mistake and you take over. So it could be a flip side of that that people don’t think about and that’s the way I think about it. Say I just want to be that little insect, that little nag, you know, in in their in their in their game that I’m always there that you know if if they don’t uh continue to play, you know, solid golf, I’m there to hopefully capitalize. The uh you know, that’s I think it’s great advice for anybody. Um, you know, the sport in general always is it’s a constant asking you to try and do something that’s maybe outside your means. Like even to your level, to the highest level, golf is always and I think maybe one of the things that’s unique about Lynx golf is like you get these like good lies that are out of position and like you where you’re looking at it and it’s like, well, I can hit this shot. I can do this, but maybe it’s not the right time to to try and do it. And that’s what you’re talking about is staying within yourself, being like smart, not taking on, you know, like I think that’s it’s constantly playing against your ego and and at any level you’re playing is staying in it. Um, with with uh Port Rush, I I I guess like actually before we get there, you know, I think like Rory obviously is a huge story this week um with with it being in Northern Ireland. I think like I I believe if my memory is serving you right like you at at uh last year were talking you know you started to have success in the majors. You played well at Valhalla. You played well at the open last year but part of that was was the idea of like you wanting to play so well in majors and almost letting go of that. And it I believe it was some of your work with Brett that was like this and and obviously a a huge storyline is Rory playing in front of the home crowd last time in 2019 he had you got off to the disaster start. What can you talk through just like kind of what you’re you guys went through with the majors and and and how you go about letting go? Yeah, you know, for so long, um, you know, almost a decade, you know, it was one of those things where, you know, all I I wanted to win a major. I want to be called a major champion. I want to be called a multi-, you know, you know, major champion, multiple major champion. Um, and I’ve always felt like my game would had the ability to win any major. Yes, you sort of learn and you grow and you get better um with your game. that makes it, you know, even more viable in those majors. Um, but at the same time, I I have a perfectionist side. I always felt like to win majors, you had to be perfectionists. And and obviously deep down, I know that’s not true, but it was always tough those weeks. Um, trying not to be perfect. Um, I would uh, you know, even if I start out Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday feeling great and not thinking perfect, Thursday morning would come up and perfectionist side would would come out. Um and and that obviously derailed a lot of my you know not having more success in in a major. Um but I think starting to work with Brett in 2018. Um I I think it was right around end of 20 co the US Open at Wingfoot was the first one that I felt very comfortable with everything. Um I played really well for um 45 holes. I think I was in the top 10 with 27 holes left to go. Um, and I just didn’t play well. I didn’t, it wasn’t that I, you know, I I got ahead of myself. I just just didn’t execute the shots nearly as good and didn’t make the putts um to stay in it. And so, but I walked away even though I was disappointed because I don’t think I finished that high that week. I think I may have finished 30th or something. Um, I was like the first 27 holes of not not the first, the first 45 holes I played really solid. I’m like, “Okay, hey, I I I know what I need to do now.” And um I always felt like going forward I always the mindset was in the right spot. Um you know for the last 5 years it was just now executing shots and and and and timing. You know listen you you’ve got to hit it well. You got to putt it well. You know we all know that. But you know making sure the game’s in in a in a sharp enough spot to be able to do that. Uh, and then, um, I think one last piece that I sort of told Brett, um, it was last year coming off this appointment in 23 and and obviously I played started to play well early play well early in 24 and I won at Puntaana. Um, and I think it was at PGA. I just said to him, I was along the lines like, you know, I’ve always thought of myself, you know, for a long time that I that I was going to be a major champion, like I was good enough and I had the game and, you know, that was something I was going to accomplish. Um, but not that this is sort of like I’m giving up, but I just said I realized that there’s a lot of people in the game of golf that have come before me that have had unbelievable careers that are probably better players than me over their career. Like they would be, you know, put on careers. Yeah, they’re going to be considered a better player than me that didn’t win majors. And, you know, if if when my career is done, if I don’t win a major, I’m going to be disappointed, but I will still be very satisfied with what I have. And you know, I just said, you know, look at Steve Stricker, look at Lee Westward, look at Luke Donald. Um, you know, even look at the guys who’ve only won one major. You know, Adam Scott, Justin Rose, Sergio Garcia. I mean, it is amazing to me how tough it is to win a major. I mean, I’ve always known it is, but then when you look at guys that I would say are better players than me, had better careers than me that haven’t won a major or I’ve only won one, you’re like, gosh, you know, it’s not the end of the world if I don’t win a major. And so with that, I realized I think that just allowed me to, you know, I can’t say be content cuz that’s sort of like saying you’re giving up, but it’s not. I just like I was content if I went out there and I played the best I could for the next, you know, eight years in majors and I don’t if I’m not able to knock off one, that’s fine. But I’m going to play these next eight years of majors going out there thinking I’m going to win, believing I’m going to win and and playing the game of go playing the way I want in majors the way I do in every other event. It’s like a it’s like acceptance of of that you you know in a way too is like you can play great and it cannot happen. like Xander kind of went nuts last year and and it’s not like you know you didn’t lose the major but you played great and that’s all you could do at a certain extent and like a lot of like I think that’s what makes golf one of the most intoxicating games is like a lot of a lot of the result is out of your hands you know and it’s what makes it maddening it is I mean I you know listen I excuse me after that final round like yeah I I was disappointed I didn’t win, you know, to have the best chance in my career in in nearly a decade and over a decade to have a chance to win a major and to come up short. Um, you know, and I got and I and I played really well for the first seven holes. I was right there in position and I just around the turn I I lost a couple shots and then, you know, I gave myself some opportunities coming in. I just didn’t make the putts to stay with Xander until the end before it was too late. Um, you know, I held my head up high because I didn’t feel like I lost that major. I played that I played that final round exactly the way I wanted and the way I felt and and everything. I missed a short putt at a I hit a bad iron shot at 10. Other than that, I just didn’t execute at the level that I needed to win. And you had someone like Xander who went out there and executed at a high level on those last nine holes and played a beautiful round of golf. And he deserved the win. And it and and so, you know, I didn’t sleep one hour or even one minute that night. I stayed awake all the way until I had to catch a flight the next morning. Um because it was just so much adrenaline and emotion and going through everything. But you know, I walked away with my head held high like, “Hey, this this is hopefully just a stepping stone. If I can put myself here, you know, x amount more times, I think I’m going to get it done because I’ve shown my career. Yeah, I don’t have multiple, you know, you know, double digit wins on the PJ tour, but when I’ve gotten in the mix on the PJ tour or the DP World Tour, you know, I I feel like I’ve got a decent percentage of of closing out and winning tournaments. Um, with with Port Rush and and and the Open being, we kind of talk you just talked through like the the weight of these tournaments. Is there is there an additional weight with the last major of the year? Whether it was the PGA at the early part of your career or the Open. Is there an added element to the last major of the year? No. I mean, for me, I never felt like there was because I always felt like, hey, there’s next year, there’s another year. You know, I think maybe when you get towards the end of your career, you know, you may be thinking like, hey, there’s not many majors after this. Like, there’s, you know, you know, there’s a there’s a there’s a limit. the time’s ticking and everything and so um no I never felt that way and you know you mentioned Roy earlier and the pressure he’s you know he felt in 2019 there you know he talked about it um I think I expect Roy to play well I think uh you know Rory is going to be energized he’s going to be amped up I think um I obviously he’s still going to have the pressure because I think he wants to do well he wants to win at Port Rush there’s no doubt about it. He’s spoken very much of that. And then when you have your good friend Shane Shane Lowry who won in 2019, you want to join your your your friend and and winning at Port Rush. So, um, but I think what Rory’s gone through the last couple months is actually a good thing that will hopefully lead to possibly him playing really well at Port Rush here this week. Um, what do you remember from Port Rush? uh the golf course from the golf course side and what makes it kind of a unique test uh in the open roa man it you know I was trying to think about this the other day I I can do a really good job remembering a lot of the holes and I I there’s just a great mixture of of holes that you feel like you take advantage of and there’s holes that you feel like man you know I’m holding on to this this rope as hard as I can and you know you think about one two one two three four are fairly one, two, three, one, one through five is fair, fairly benign, you know, T-shot wise, distance- wise, I think they may have added some bunkers. I saw a special on they’ve added some bunkers on some of those holes. Um, and then I right around the turn, it gets really there’s some challenging holes there. I would say uh so that’s five after the par five, maybe it’s number seven, eight, nine, right around there. Um I remember you kind of get in the middle of the property. Yeah. And a lot of the greens sit up and they and you get and and you get in some little dunes area and and I I remember the fairways being a little bit tighter and when you get off the fairway like there’s so many little hollows there that you get some really bad lies if I remember correctly. Uh I I it’s just a great golf course. It really is. And um I remember what’s is it 16 or 17 to long three 16. Oh man, that was a beast. That was a beast with the way the wind blew in. I think it was blowing in from the right, you know, hard off the right, which you don’t want to miss it, right? But then, you know, everyone was, you know, hooking it because of the wind was, you know, into the crowd’s left. I think I went, I yelled four immediately after my two T- shots. I mean, I trying to cut it and it, you know, you don’t cut it cuz you’re trying not to white cut it because if you come up short, you’re way like 60 ft below the green and and and no man’s land. And so, um, it’s a beautiful golf course and I don’t know if it truly I think with the technology and the drones and everything now, I think we’ll truly come to, um, see how great the golf course is. Um, but I think it’s just a great combination of of, you know, challenging every aspect of the game, um, and the way, you know, in every shot. And then you think about, you know, I’m sort of jumping from spot to spot, but just some way some of the T- shots are like number five. Obviously is a is a fair way of sling like this, but the T- shots here and the green’s over here. And it’s sort of when you set up to the T- shot, sometimes you feel like you’re aiming too far right, you know, on that T- you wind up pulling and it’s a par4 that you can drive and and so um yeah, it’s just it’s a really great great golf course. I enjoyed it and I was disappointed that only played two rounds there in 19. And I I’m really am disappointed not to be there this year cuz I was really looking forward to to to to getting back there cuz I I did enjoy the golf course. And I think what Rory has mentioned and talked about and a lot of guys have when you enjoy the golf course and and you you enjoy the challenge of it, it it lends to uh you know a chance of playing better golf. Yeah. Yeah. I when you feel activated, right, it’s like your your your brain’s really working. I think something that you alluded to is that I hadn’t really thought of is there’s a lot of T-shots when you talked about five and I started to think about other T-shots where the fairway kind of just you know five is a drastic example but they just kind of like move a little bit off the center where you’re hitting across it on an angle and then you have like the great land movement that makes so many of those T-shots It’s very uncomfortable, especially I feel like in that middle section of the round. It’s a lot like a Pete Dyolf course in the way he does his little tea boxes, everything. But then you add in, you know, a 15, 20, 25 mile per hour wind and everything, you’re like, that makes it even more of a challenge in the way the T- box sits and the way you feel and everything. I think there’s a whole on the backside that they convert from a par five to a par4. Um, so that’s nine, maybe 12 or 13 somewhere around in there, I think. Um, and and that’s that’s just a tough T- shot as well. Um, and the way the wind blows because I think it was blowing, you know, in off the right, uh, if I remember correctly when we played there, you know, you talked about 16. I think what’s unique about 16 is like it’s very obvious like where you don’t want to be, right? But like one of the dynamics of it over the course of playing, you know, four rounds at this golf course for players that are playing late on the, you know, on the weekend is like you’re going to hit the ball left there at some point. And I think like it’s like one of those classic like you get over there and you’re like, “Well, this is not I don’t want to be here at all.” Like cuz it’s like gnarly. It’s like gross. it you could get like you can be like you could be like well I’d almost rather be 60 yards or 60 feet below the green at this point than where I am right now cuz I’m staring at it and I might hit it down there and and what I think’s like so unique is like you start with like that you’re like I’m just going to hit it over here. this is my target. And so much of golf at this point has become like you know it’s like the target and your dispersion and like whether it’s like some like I over the course of four rounds your target might start to creep a little bit right because you know how bad it is there and whether it’s like I I think and I don’t know if this is if you feel this is like there’s sometimes like your subliminal like subconscious mind will take over even if a shot like if a shot’s like semi-lind And you there is a lot of semi-blindness at this golf course and in a lot of links courses even if you know it’s it’s better to be right but you can’t see it sometimes that subconscious mind can take over and you still miss it left because like okay like I can’t like I can’t see that I and I’m I’m afraid of that. Like is there an aspect of that happening at great golf courses where your subconscious can take over? No, you’re exactly right. Um, you know, that’s where like, you know, sometimes in practice rounds, you know, if the wind’s going to be coming a certain way, like if that wind’s coming coming in off the right, you almost really, you know, you want to hit one of those shots where you feel like you hit it good, you start it right, and the wind pushes it back to where you want. Or let’s say you start it right and and you hit it good. The wind doesn’t push it, but you know it carries and it’s it carries to the front right of the green or it carries that you know the the depression there that’s you know you got to carry um you know flying it to the green. You know you want to have that sort of comfort level over the shot that hey if I start this a little bit right I’m still going to be okay especially if I hit it solid. Um, you know, that’s like last year at um at Trune, you know, number 10, number 11, you know, number 10, you got to aim it way left of where you think and you got the wind pushing it left as I mean pushing to the right. I remember in the practice I’m hitting like three with a driver and I’m like, “Oh man, that’s way too far left.” And I get down there and it’s in the fairway and I was like, “Oh, wow.” Okay. Like that gives you comfort that I can hit the shot over here where I think it’s not going to be in a good spot. It winds up in the fairway, you know. Same thing on number 11. And I remember, you know, on Tuesday I went out early and when I came to make the turn, the conditions got worse. It just got picked up, not rain, but wind. But it was coming the direction that we actually played on the weekend, you know, in off the left. And I remember hitting a T-OT and pulling it. Um, and if you pull it, there’s gorus there that you can run through. And on the line I thought was going to run through, I was okay. So it gave me, you know, sort of my parameters like, okay, I can hit it all the way this far left, I can hit it all the way this far right. like gives you that comfort level that I know my parameters. I know where I can, you know, what my far left line is and my far right line is. Um it just gives you that comfort level uh over shots when you know in certain conditions or you know you get nervous um you know at certain situations. I you know one of the unique elements of of of some Blink’s courses is that out and back which you hit on like and you you might end up with a wind that you just hate. Like for me, I I have fade the ball. I just cannot stand when I play a stretch of holes where it’s off my left. And it’s just like I it it just puts me in a blender. I can’t I can’t I hate it so much. And like you can you some links courses, some of the roa courses, you’re going to get hit with that wind over and over and over again. Yeah. Port Rush is uh a little bit more complex of a routing where you it’s a it’s a a later, you know, golden age golf course where the routing is like you you go in different directions, you’re meandering around. What does that what is the uniqueness of that when you factor in the wind? um you know what makes that tough versus like where you can just be in a bad wind for a stretch of holes and that can derail your round versus the you know when when the course is just moving around a lot. You know I I think you know in certain aspects you know like you said left to right wind you know if you know you got like nine holes with left right win and like the first hole you play you hit a bad shot in the left right wing like oh my god I got eight more holes I’ve got to hit this shot again. like Port Rush a little bit different cuz obviously there’s like like I said the first I think four holes are sort of in the similar wind direction, you know, it may move a little bit but um but you get to some of the interior holes and you’re like, “Oh man, the next couple holes I’ve got the wind off the right.” So now I it can sort of balance you out and and and you know, you can sort of make corrections in the swing and try things a little bit to to rectify when you get back into that left to right win or if you had an issue with a right to left win. Um, you know, so I think it it’s there’s a balance in sense the way the golf swing is, you know, as a golfer, like you can come off the golf course and not feel like, hey man, I got to go hit balls cuz I’ve just been hitting in 25 mile per hour left right winds and I need to, you know, you know, get my swing sort of back to to neutral again. Um, out there when you have the wind moving around, it uh it it can keep your swing a little more neutral state. But at the same time, the great thing about some of these links courses is if I played five or six holes in the same direction, I get a really good beat on the wind. Where now when it’s you’re moving around, sometimes you’re not getting good beat. Like if I had it into the in the left in left to right on the first, you know, two holes and next holes are down off the right or or or down off my left. Like, okay, like how much is a wind going to help now? And then if it changes two holes later, like you’re sort of trying to figure out, you know, the effect how much effect it’s going to have on the golf ball a little bit. I think what’s it, you know, like I never like thought about like I I guess, you know, it’s like that like the swing getting like off neutral, right? And that is totally what happens in those like when you get kind of out of sorts with wind being just like hammering you. It’s like uh you know I was playing horse with a neighbor the other day and I knew he couldn’t shoot left-handed. I just went lefty all you know like you I learned how to shoot with both hands. Like I’m just lefty lefty just hammering him to death on his weakness. Like that’s what a wind can do when it’s moving around. It almost like that’s what you you were talking about early in the round early in the pod is like the experience that like understanding where you can hit shots with with different things is when that move wind is constantly moving around it adds the layers of complexity and like you know they you talk about if if you watch basketball like somebody watches Demar De Rozan isolate and go to work in the mid-range they they say he’s in his bag he’s deep in his bag that is a being deep in a golfer’s bag is that that like different that wind constantly moving around and having to hit all these different shots. And I think what Port Rush does particularly well is to different green sites. Some sitting up where everything’s rejecting away, some sitting down where you can hit something that kind of scoots into it. That’s what makes this golf course to me like at the top of the the open venues. Like if you’ve played a ton of opens, what would you where where would you put this in relation like what are your favorite ones that you know favorite open venues? Man, that’s a good question. Um, I’m not going to give you what my number one is because I don’t even know what my number one is. I’ll give you five that I’ll give you five. Just give Yeah, give it Port Rush. I think Royal Trin is a really good test to go off. I like that. Obviously, I’m biased. played well, but I I missed a cut there. And the first when I played in 16, um I think it was 16. I shot like three or four under the first day and then I shot a bazillion the second day. I I mean, Matt Fitzpatrick and I, we made the turn. We got the number nine and I’m telling you, we played in some of the worst conditions. I mean, even worse than we played in Saturday. was blowing even harder. Um, in 16 the last nine holes uh of our second round, I think we both shot like 45 or 46 on the inward nine. Um, bad vibes bad vibes situation. And so I wasn’t really happy going back there last year. And then I remember, you know, Monday playing, I was like, man, you know, this course is actually really good. I’ve just got to figure out this little, you know, when this wind switches into us off the left off the inward nine how to play it. And it was perfect that I played Tuesday morning and it switched uh and I got to play it uh on the second nine on my 18. Um but I I thought it was a really good test. Um so Port Rush Tron I think St. George’s Royal St. Georgees is an awesome course. I know it can be a little quirky with the fairways and so many mounding and everything. It’s a polarizing one. That one that one does some of some of the least favorite. Like I think if you pull players that might be the highest least favorite. Yeah, I know. And I I understand why because you hit good golf shots don’t get rewarded uh a lot. But I thought it was I thought it was a really good test. Uh Murfield is really good. I played it in 13 my first open. Um so those are four. Could I find another one? I love St. Andrews. I love St. Andrews and I I have it I I love the town. I love everything about it. Um, I do believe I mean the the technology has sort of nullified it. Um, the challenges, so many wet shots, there’s so many holes you can drive with a driver now. Um, so many stuff you can take out of play. Um, you know, and but when it what if the conditions get really bad, which I’ve played in the Dunnhill, it’s one hell of a test. Um, you know, I mean remember 14’s a perfect example, the par five there. I was playing with it with Terrell there and and um who was I can’t remember who my partner was. Um we were playing with it one year with him. Uh and the wind was it was rainy and the wind was blowing in and there was a bunker when you’re walking off the tea from the back te you have to walk like 180 yards to get to the fairway or 200 yards like there’s a bunker there off the you know once you get to the fairway and I’m like I remember playing it there in 15 like why the hell is this bunker here? Like that makes no sense. and Carol and I played Dunhill and we both hit T-shots and we both ended up in that bunker and the T and our balls only went 220 yards and there’s a I understand why there’s a bunker there now because of the wind direction. Um but at the same time if you there’s enough fairway to hit but if you miss it a little right you’re OB team back up from the from the from the T. So um yeah I you know hopefully maybe with some changes and a few other things down the road you know the the St. changes to show a little bit more of what what it is. But I think it’s a great golf course and I do love it. Do love it a lot. Um, last question before we get you out of here. Um, there’s rumors of of potential opens in new countries maybe, you know, expanding. I mean, there’s been a lot of rumors about Port Marik uh being being a potential future host in Ireland, but they’re saying like beyond, you know, the the Brit the British and Ireland islands. Uh what what are your thoughts on that? The stupidest freaking thing I’ve ever heard. I will I I and I’m, you know, I’m happy if that goes viral. Um because it’s like it’s like what I told Mike Davis after Chambers Bay. Obviously I had comments about Chambers Bay and I and I I thought Chambers Bay to view the golf course thought was really unique and really cool. You know my aspect was the Greens and you know he called me out of the blue uh two days after US Open to apologize for the condition of the Greens and they messed up and they should have handled it better and not put us in a situation that we were all in. Um, and then we had Aaron Hills uh, a couple years later, you know, and I just I I went to Mike after Aaron Hills. I said, “Listen, like I thought both those courses are really nice. You know, they’re really cool. Um, you know, I’m not going to criticize them because I think, you know, there’s there’s a room for them to be played. But as a US Open test, the US Open is about challenging every aspect of the game from your driver to to to iron play to short game to putting to mental. Like, you know, let’s get back to what the US Open is and like you have to drive the ball well to be able to play well. like you know you know I like Pinehurst and I think you know I I’m okay with Pinehurst being a rotation because you know I think it’s a little 50/50 in some of those lies when you get off the fairway but I still think there’s a you do have a benefit for hitting the fairway more than if you get off get out of the fairway but you know when we went to Chambers Bay and went there on hills we’re playing these big wide fairways where really the the you know who I consider myself a really good driver of the golf ball may not be long but I I was fairly accurate you know that was one advantage taken away from me. You’re going to move in the US Open or the Open Championship away from link style courses. You know, I and if you play them on, you know, link style, you know, maybe link style courses in other countries, it’s not the same as being played in the UK. Like I’m okay going to Ireland and playing Port Monarch. I think that’s an awesome I love that golf course. I think it’s great. I played it during the World Cup practice session, you know, but to take it outside the UK, I just can’t think of a course outside the UK that, you know, would would fit, you know, the feel and everything that is the Open Championship like that just it’s as I hope it doesn’t happen. I hope it doesn’t. I I mean I’m I’m old school. I want to see it always be played in the UK. Yeah. in like an idea they they’ve proposed like Australia and it’s like well wait are we like an I not that they propos like a floated you know it’s like yeah people that they have but some other people have talked about it so if you go if you go there in the summer our our summer it’s their winter there then all a sudden you might you might have to go split te’s right so you’ve lost like one charm of the open everybody goes off one right like the long days if you go even even if you go like closer to the equator, you might lose that daylight that you need at the open to go all off one tea like and then if you go anywhere uh like anywhere you’re losing the elements of being on a small island in the middle of the ocean, right, that present itself, right? The the the just the weather element of it. I’m I’m for people trying new things and doing different things, but I you know I you know in certain instance you got to stay within your your framework and your parameters and what you you have sort of your little niche and what works and what’s been successful and what that particular championship or that particular tournament is about. And you know, I think we should, you know, they’ve had going to Port Marik in 2019 was obviously a first step and I think that’s great. And you know, we could maybe go down the Royal County down. Why don’t we go somewhere in Ireland? Like, you know, Ireland has so many great link style courses. Like, let’s just stay within the in the in the British Isles there a little bit, okay? Let’s not get going to other land masses because like I said, you lose a lot of the charm that is the Open Championship. And the one thing you will lose which makes the open so great and it gets talked about a lot but it I don’t think it’s talked about enough is is the fans are so unbelievable and their knowledge of the game of golf and you know you know clapping for a shot when it was hit the 40 ft they like they know that was a good shot from where you hit it. Like they know what golf is, they know what a bad shot is. They know what a good golf shot is. And it’s so cool to play in front of them and their knowledge and um you know I enjoy I enjoy that. I enjoy going over there you know multiple times a year to play tournaments um because they they truly do make it enjoyable to play in front of fans like that. Um the yeah the the culture just the golf culture. I you know one of my favorite things every time I’m over there is when you’re in a town and you see a kid walking with his bag on his shoulders to the golf course like from his house like it’s just like I those things like I can think of 10 of the occasions in my head like just etched into my memory of like and it’s just like god that’s so cool like I grew up riding a bike to a golf course right but it was a it was a it was a good bike ride like the idea of just walking from my house in town to a golf course that’s just down the street um is is the beautiful thing. All right. I said it was the last question, but but you brought it up. I’d be remiss. You played one of the great Walker Cups, uh Royal County Down Walker Cup. Uh favorite story, memory, uh of playing, you know, it you’re you’re in your youth playing Royal County down. You know, your team had Ricky on it, Dustin Johnson. Like, you look at that. I there’s four major champions, tons of bonafide tour pros, one of the great Walker Cup uh uh teams, and like a very close match. Yeah, listen, it was it was enjoyable time. I think we were over there for two weeks. Um playing, you know, courses around Ireland. Um and then made our way up the county down. Um yeah, I think it was it was awesome. I enjoyed it. Obviously to be on a victorious winning walkup team was unbelievable. first time we had one over there I think since like 92 or ’95 something like that or 93 95. Um I mean there’s there’s probably tons of stories. I mean I’ll give you two. I mean listen I was 20 years old. Um very brash, very cocky, very uh self assured of himself. Um I remember Ricky and I were playing Rory and Johnny Codwell on Sunday morning. We were four down after five. We made the turn all square. Um I think at this point we may have what I’m about to talk about we were about one or two up in the match and um Ricky I think on the 15th of part three hit a shot an iron shot out to the right into this bunker and it was a long bunker shot and you’re above the green and you know everything and I and I was up against the lip and I hit this unbelievable bunker shot came out perfect lands on the green and the ball’s rolling down and I come running down like a damn gazelle you know hooting calling at the top of my lungs like go in, go in and the ball lips out, you know, we make par. Rory and them had 20 feet. They make par. Uh we want we win the match like two and one. And obviously like I was brash. I was an idiot. I mean I’m not an idiot, but I mean I was brash. I mean I I as I said going in there I said I was going to be the Sergio Garcia the American team of the US walkup team. And so I I got paired up with Rory um in the Sunday afternoon singles. We get up on the first te. I hit a good drive and and he just unleashes on one and it goes so far and he’s way down there. He can’t have more than seven or eight iron in the greeny and he hits, you know, an iron shot in there to about 15 ft. I’ve got like seven feet for birdie and he makes his eagle putt and he goes, he yells on top of his like, “Fuck yeah, let’s go.” Something like that. And like I was like, “Oh [ __ ] I’m in trouble.” You know? I was like, “Okay, I I’m in trouble right now.” Listen, we we didn’t know who Roy was. We knew he just won lowam at the the open championship at Cornusi in ’07. We knew he was a good player, but you know, he didn’t come over to the States and play. He was only 18 at the time. Um, you know, there was a lot of hype around them and everything. And, you know, we all, you know, thought he was, you know, was good, but, you know, I I didn’t know I could have told you that this is what was going to happen. I saw potential. I saw talent. But yeah, time we just thought he was another player who, you know, we were trying to beat and, you know, he showed me something on that that Sunday afternoon singles that I walked away with and I was I was I was impressed and I respected the hell out of him. Yeah. Uh it’s uh that had to be an amazing experience uh playing that golf course in and in in the Walker Cup. I you know, it’s like you talk about like the infrastructure needed for championship golf and yeah, that’s the only bad thing. It’s like the thing that stinks especially when it come like the Opens become this like you know they value the fan and like it’s part of it. It’s part of what makes it special, but it is also the downside is a venue like Royal County Down is is unavailable given the modern um the modernization of of major championships and there’s other venues in America that are that similarly where you just have you know small like it commercially isn’t as big of a success and it’s like that would be to me that would be up there uh in the top top echelon of of of test because that I don’t think there’s much harder golf courses in in the world than that and more demand more maybe more demanding is the right is the right term. Yeah, I would agree with you. I think it’s an awesome golf course and it would be in my top five of links courses. I always have top five. So, let’s make a top six. Um, all right. Uh, last last uh who’s your pick to win before we get out of here. If you if you were if you had to make if you know gun to your head, who’s going to win this week? Oh. Oh, man. I I I’m I’m trying to think. Ah, I mean, there’s there’s a couple people that you can never go wrong. Nobody could ever doubt you. Yeah. No, I mean I I’m I’m going to say, you know, um the the the the Irish will be shined upon once again. All right. So, all right. Anyone who’s Irish, I’m going with anyone who’s Irish. I think the Irish luck and they’re going to have Irish being you’re going to be shy in the pond again. Uh I’m going to take I’m going to take Victor Havlin. I feel like he’s been sniffing around a lot of majors. Um he’s just he’s been been there. Uh he was there at at the old course obviously. Uh and I just think he’s he’s bound to get one done here. Yeah, that’s a good one. That’s a good one. Billy, big thanks. We can’t wait to see you back on the golf course. Uh, I was I was looking through the RDER Cup standings and that was the thing that I was most bummed about was like I you know I think this year you would have you would have been on the team given given your form and and uh and we’ll we miss you. We can’t wait for you to come back and uh be back out there and uh big thanks for coming on this podcast. Thanks guys. Thank you. [Music] Thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. Um, that was that was I love Billy. He’s he’s he’s so uh you know what I appreciate about him is he’s candid. He tells you exactly what he’s thinking and uh that’s very rare in sports. Uh so Billy uh I it’s bummer that he’s watching this week and not playing. Uh it’s a bummer when you look at the US RDER Cup team that he’s not in the mix because I think that given the way he played last year uh he was going to be squarely in the mix this year. And uh yeah, so we’ll be back. I actually have we have a bonus uh episode coming this week uh that’ll be out on Wednesday. Uh so yeah, we’ll have an extra episode and then we’ll be back with Trevor after the championship to do the the recap breakdown of uh of what happened at Port Rush. So, thank you guys uh for listening, supporting the pod through these majors this year. We got a couple more episodes of Major Golf left. Then we got the RDER Cup, a little boom, uh and uh you know, the playoffs, what really matters, right? Um, so, uh, big thanks to PJ for hopping on, doing the story lines, and also editing, producing this podcast. Lock in, get the coffee ready, and, uh, enjoy the open.
