Welcome back to Whistleblowers!
This week, Nick Kyrgios joins Gordon Smart, Ian Ladyman, and Mark Clattenburg for a no-holds-barred conversation about tennis, tantrums, and tradition.
Kyrgios opens up on everything from dodgy umpiring tech and hostile crowds to towel theft and the challenges of being a maverick in a conservative sport.
He even challenges Clattenburg on what it would be like to ref him – and why tennis umpires could never survive on a football pitch.
The lads then turn their attention to football, and Chelsea’s financial trouble. With UEFA threatening to ban unregistered players from European competition, we dive into how the club’s transfer splurge could leave them short.
Is a £27m fine enough of a deterrent? Will homegrown talent get sacrificed to balance the books? And why isn’t this story getting more attention?
Whistleblowers | Football From The Inside Out
Hosts: Gordon Smart, Mark Clattenburg and Ian Ladyman
Featuring: Nick Kyrgios
Producer: Henry Williams
Executive Producer: Jamie East
Researcher: William Colledge
Content Editor: Joseph Palmer
Booker: Ashley Whitt
Video Editor: Luke Shelley
Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini
X: @blowerspod
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Email: whistleblowers@dailymail.com
A Daily Mail Podcast. Seriously Popular.
Welcome to whistleblowers in partnership with Wix Trade Pro. Coming up, but non Saudis, they get a little bit catchy when they can’t have the best. There’s so much [ __ ] spoken and written about Marcus Rashford. Right, let’s talk to Nick Kios. Wimbledon’s our Champions League. It’s been an absolute [ __ ] show. It’s like, man, this sport’s not inviting to to people. I’ve really been made to feel uncomfortable throughout my entire career. Hello, I’m Gordon Smart, joined as ever by the one and only Mark Clattenburg and Ian Ladyman, or as we now know them, internet Tik Tok sensations. 15 million views of the last clip that went out on Figo. Ian, you’re you’re big with the kids now. Yeah, but you still describe Mark as the one and only Mark Clutenberg and Lady as well, which is, you know, and Ian Ladyman has a journeyman has turned up for work once again, which I do take personally. I would Yeah, I’m not going to apologize. This this this northern skinn is not that thick. But yeah, one and a half million views of our um it’s more than that. Little story about Figo returning to the new camp with Real Madrid back in the day. Yeah, it’s two and a half million now. I can tell you it’s amazing. Two and a half million. Wow. Well, we’ll check out Mail Sports Tik Tok channel then and have a look at that everybody. But just shows I guess just what happens when you get Real Madrid and Barcelona fans arguing with each other. Basically, it’s a clever trick, right? We’ve got a blockbuster show coming up for you today. We have got Nick Kerios who’s a proper maverick in tennis. I’ve been working with him for the last two weeks now. Um I’m sure he’ll bring some controversy and a bit of punch to Mark Clattenburg. This afternoon we’ll be discussing Ruben Amaran’s decision to cast aside five big names at Man United. We’re going to break down Chelsea’s latest financial worries or do they ever have financial worries when you’ve got unlimited pots of cash. Could this be the straw though that breaks the camel’s back for Todd Bolley and Co. Plus? We have got uh plenty more to talk about with Mark Clattenburg and why he’s not here again today. Is it because his leaf blower still hasn’t arrived that he refuses to come to strike? He’s gone on strike. I’m on strike. I’m on strike till it appears and once it appears I will come back to be next to you and opposite the legendary Ian. Can I just ask you a question? Do they do they sell suntan lotion in Spain? Because your forehead’s looking a bit pink, my friend. That was because of my awful golf and I spent most of me golf looking for me ball. What you going to say came when we put your head in the oven? Put your head in the pizza oven. It was in tribute to that Louis Figo’s pig’s head that got thrown in the picture. Even my daughter thinks Ian’s cool now. You know, on the Tik Tok, they’re all doing this. You know, will be doing this sooner. What you What do you mean now? I thought you were cool before. That’s for sure. A friend of mine a friend of mine in this industry who I like and respect greatly, messaged me yesterday, haven’t seen the clip, saying, “Have you had a glow up? Have you had a glow up? you you’ve had a haircut and you’re wearing new clothes. And then pointed out that shirt was at least 10 years old. So just shows everything comes around back into fashion eventually. He hasn’t worn those shoes with a hole in them again though. I have to tell you that. Yeah. Every every Wednesday morning when I’m get up every Wednesday morning when I leave the house at 5:00 in Manchester, I look at my my raka shoes and think, “Oh, I better leave those gray better leave those gray ones at home.” Lads, we’re going to talk a little about Manchester United today because Ruben Ammon has banned five players from the club’s preseason tour. All right, so we’re talking Marcus Rashford, Sancho, Alejandro Garnacho, Anthony, and Terasia. Right. So, what you reckon, Ian, is that strong management? Is that powerful leadership or is this a guy who’s struggling to handle the personalities and has he lost the dressing room? Well, I’m afraid the answers to to those questions will only become apparent when we’re about five or six games into the season because at the new season because football has just determined the way that everything is viewed these days. All we can talk about at the moment is the way it looks right now and how it looks like. Well, the first thing I’ll say is I think this is in my time covering football, I think this is almost unprecedented. There might be somebody out there who can throw throw me an example that I’ve forgotten about. We all know that there are occasionally players who fall out with coaches and and to use old vernacular are asked to train with the reserves, sent to train. They we always say, don’t we? Let him let him rot in the reserves. Let’s not forget big players happen to Beckham at Real Madrid, didn’t it? Under Capello. So, it happens might happen to one player. If you have a really bad season, it might happen to two. for it to happen to five players, five bigname players with probably with the exception of Bashia, but certainly four bigname players to be told by their manager, you’re not coming in our preseason tour, that is you. You are done is almost unprecedented. Most managers in this situation with hedge the bets, they’d think, well, I don’t fancy him and I don’t fancy him, but if I if I bomb them, yeah, the headlines, the publicity is going to be enormous. I’m going to make a rod for me own back. If it goes wrong, I’m going to look like an idiot. So, what I’ll do is I’ll hedge my bets. I’ll keep them in the squad. I’ll use them in the in the in the Cowboy Cup. I’ll have them on the bench in the Premier League and hope and hopefully he might be able to sell them. Ruben Amir has thought, “No, I’m not doing this.” I think he’s obviously thought I think he knows he’s on he’s on dodgy ground at United. He has to be. They finished 15th or whatever it was last season. So, he knows that it might be a relatively short journey for him at Old Trafford. And it looks to me as if he’s made the the decision that if I’m going to go down, I’m going to go down my way and I’m going to go down with my principles intact and this is it. This is my line in the sand moment. This is my big gamble and if it backfires then at least I can I can leave this place knowing that I was clever to my values. Here’s the one that that crossed my mind. What would hit Marcus Rashford harder? the preseason ban or losing the number 10 strip to a new signing because the Mark Hughes strip is quite a heavy one, isn’t it? To carry on the shoulders of any player, but to have that taken from him given to Kuna is quite a big thing. Yes, I think it is. Um, and answer your question, I think, yeah, that that would that would have hit him hard. But then if he didn’t see that coming, Yeah. then he needs to then he needs to take his sunglasses off because that’s been in the wind for so long. And you have to remember there’s so much [ __ ] spoken and written about Marcus Rashford. so much. Okay. And one of the things that astonishes me is that people seem to have forgotten that round about Christmas time he basically said he wanted out. He said in an interview with Henry Winter that he wanted to that he felt it was the right time for him to move on. And so for him now or him or people close to him now to be trying to push some kind of suggestion that he’s he’s still committed to I notic he’s he’s he’s returned early to training this week at Carrington. I even though he’s training on his own I read I’m sorry that ship has sailed that ship has sailed um as far as I’m concerned and any intelligent informed Manchester United fan is concerned Marcus Rashford told the world he wanted to go yeah and he’s getting his wish Mark can you tell when you’re referee in a game that a team has an issue with morale or there’s a problem in the dressing room or there’s a bad apple disturbing the squad can you sense that in a game can you see it and hear You can certainly sense it in the in and around the stadium, the dress room. You very rare see it on the pitch because you got 11 players fighting, you know, for the results and they all gel together and if they win, they’re in a positive state. If they lose, they’re always looking for an excuse. So, but sometimes you’ll see it pregame where players being dropped and the vibe, you know, the rumors are going around that the bigname player is is being dropped. But going on to these Man United players, most of these Man United players that he’s left out of the the camps or you know the the trips that the preseason matches that they’re going to play in were all most of them were on loan last year at other clubs. So there’s no big surprise that Anthony Rashford, Jordan Sancho have been left out because they weren’t a part of the squad last year. Alman came in halfway through the season, had a look at the dressing room, probably hasn’t improved them as a squad, but certainly has tried to sort out the dress room problem that’s certainly is inside Manchester United. And these players were subject to requirements last season. So why would they be, you know, shown? They haven’t really shown Rashford patches Villa Anthony patches it as a real Bettis but really are they going to enhance Man United bearing in mind there’s problems internally where the attitudes may be so therefore the coach is right to change it he’s brought in some new additions to replace these type of players so why take them on tour when he’s trying to build discipline he’s trying to build something back into what man in a used to be. There’s a really famous management book called the first 90 days, right? And it’s about how you get control of a new business when you take over. And one of the principles in the books about the first 18 months is correcting what the last person got wrong and sort of putting an imprint on it. The next 18 months is about really making it yours and making that that that workplace become yours. And then the final 18 months is remaining motivated and keeping it going. And you look at Amaran and you apply that principle to him. He has got a massive job in his hands with signings this summer. But in Buenmo looks like it’s not happening yet. Are they likely to get Ollie Watkins in? You know, what’s he going to do in his 18 months at the moment? It’s there’s certainly a little bit of Groundhog Day about about what’s happened at United so far this summer. So, they got, you know, they did do uh they did the Kuna deal very very quickly. um they managed to rescue or they managed to keep Bruno Fernandez out of the hands of the Saudis, which I think is very important, but they haven’t they haven’t kicked on and and we we’ve talked on this podcast before about how quickly Liverpool did the business at the start of the summer and how that’s the way to do it. um and you don’t want to be scrabbling around in in in back end of August. But I think they will be and part of it will part of it’s linked to these players because I would imagine the players that we talk about there has been some suggestion here that Amim doing what he’s doing is will have an impact on the players value um these these five players because it’ll tell the rest of the world um the trouble. You know, we can’t even trust him to come on tour with us. But my point in to counter that would be that I don’t think they’re selling any of these anyway because they’re not going to get the money. So these will be loans. I think they’ll probably all end up going out on loan again. And we all know the way football works, those loans probably won’t happen until they’re right at the back end of the window and then United won’t know whether they’ve got the headway in their wage structures to then bring some loans in of their own. So apart from the headline ones that we’re talking about, you mentioned Ollie Watkins. I’m not sure how much he how much he improves them. Um I I think the Bremo one probably will get done at some point. Um but it’s hard to plan when you’ve got these and you’ve got about I can’t even add it up how many millions of pounds a month in wages tied up in those players that you need to get out before you can think about bringing other other loans in. So the fluidity around United’s transfer business this summer is dismally familiar I’m afraid. And this is this is this is interesting what you say about Ian about the loans. These five players are on huge salaries and loans, you know, Manchester United are going to say, okay, then, you know, loans can involve a a small transfer fee, but you pay a percentage of the wages. And the problem is people like Rashford and you know if you’re going to sign Rashford on loan a is he motivated to produce the goods and you’re going to pay a huge salary which then if Rashford for example is on a huge salary to let let’s say a tops like 6 to 10 or 6 to 12 in the Premier League. If he comes in on that huge salary, which breaks their salary structure within the club and he doesn’t perform, what does that do to the morale of the club or the team inside that dressing if he’s not playing at the standard that he should play at? And this goes back to what Gordon said about management. You spend the first 18 months trying to correct the mistakes of the guy who came before you. And there’s and there’s so much of that here, but it’s not just it’s not just Eric on Eric Tenhog this. It’s on the whole football club. So, you can blame Eric Tenhag for putting his faith in in a player like Anthony, who he knew from Holland, hasn’t hasn’t worked out, but you can’t blame him for the money that was spent on Jaden Sancho, even though he’d never been uh proven in the in the Premier League. And you can’t blame Denhog or Amarim for the ludicrous new contract that was given to Marcus Rashford relatively recently on absolutely huge numbers. So, but so um and Gonacho, who you’ve talked about before, comes with a little bit a little bit of behavioral baggage. So, that plays to your point, Gordon, that it’s up to Amarim to s to sort all of this out and Harry McGuire as well. But going back to going back to the start of of of the podcast, um this is a very bold way to sort that problem out. And it’s it’s it’s you could even call you know it we may sit here in September and say well and say what a master stroke it was. There’s every chance we’ll be sitting here in September and and suggesting it might have been a little bit reckless. I’m a supporter of Amarim. I think he’s a strong coach. Tenhog was strong in the way that he dealt with players. But but we all know that that strength has got to be backed up by results. It’s got to be backed up by results. See I’m the opposite. I think if Alone had carried on the way he was going, he would have got the sack anyway. So he may as well do something bold and have a go. What’s the opposite? If if if it works out he’s a hero and he’s you know he will be worshiped by man Manchester United fans for the rest of his life or what he does it carries on it and damages his reputation. Probably hindsight he shouldn’t have come mid-season. He probably should have waited till the end of the season. Well, he asked to come at the end, didn’t he? He asked He asked for that. That’s life. But he should have done his due diligence with inside the dressing room and found out what was going on before he seen that. Yeah. I think it’s fair to I think it’s fair to say, isn’t it that there’s at the moment as it stands looking at that Man United squad a week before they go on preseason, I think they go leave for preseason um a week on Friday to go to America. I mean, blind me, where’s the creativity? Let’s just say that Bruno Fernandez and um and Kuna and Ahmed Di are going to have to do an awful lot of heavy lifting when it comes to creativity in that football team. You know, it felt like a really old school story, but I loved it. Right. It felt like a ‘ 90s football story, but Jamie Vardy being offered to Manchester United. He’s clearly never going to be an amin. But I just thought what a brilliant signing that would be for Man United. Proven goal scorer. Someone to prove would be I think that would be a brilliant move. Am I mad? Is that my romantic traditional football views? You’re mad. You know what, mate? I said at the end of last season, I was talking about Vardy and said that I wouldn’t be surprised if a Premier League club um took him as an impact substitute. And I was think I was about to say to you, yeah, but I meant like a lower ranking Premier League club, but then I thought, hang on, my United are a lower ranking Premier League club in the league. So, guaranteed to get you goals. Now, we’ve talked about our infamous five. We can’t really call him a famous five, can we? But on the subject of ego uh and narcissism, let’s continue our hunt for Jan and Fantino’s Club World Cup sticker. Each week we are trying to find the person we’ve dubbed the most arrogant man in football who’s craftily made himself a panini world cup sticker, Ian. We’re running out of stickers. Let’s see if we can find and let’s test Ian once again on his uh global football knowledge to see. So, same as same as last week. Honesty is the name of the game here. I will I will hand on heart uh let our listeners know how many of these chaps I’ve heard of as I pull them out of the packet. Have we got Infantino stick? That’s why Gordon that’s why I’m not in the chair because you would ask me to open them stickers and I don’t know any of the players and I can’t pronounce them. So this is that’s why I’m not there. This is good news. It’s not it’s not Infantino but it is Vatinho who I have heard of. Andres Andre Mikultta who I have not heard of. Marcos Lorente I have heard of the emblem. I don’t even know what that’s what this means. That’s him. Is that him? That’s him. But it’s not but it’s not a picture of him. That’s him. But it’s not him. There must be other emblems. It’s not him. Oh, hang on. It’s it’s inquiry. It’s somebody else. It’s it’s not him. So I have got the emblem sticker. We’re under the impression that Gre Infantino had dubbed himself the emblem and sign on the back. But this isn’t for those of those watch for the millions watching on YouTube that there you go. The camera can zoom in. Zoom on. That is not Infantino. That is Marich Kard means absolutely nothing to me as you can tell. And there we go. That’s another that’s another rather underwhelming journey through best f you’ve ever spent demon. I’m not going to tear up the emblem because I just think we might need to keep that one. But I am going to tear the others up if I can because they’ve been a Oh, don’t do that. I want them for me album. Wait, bring bring some salad tape next week. If I’ve got my 15-year-old son of work experience, I spent all morning telling him Ian Lady is one of the finest football journalists on the planet. He knows everything about football. And two weeks on the bounce, you’ve got zero out of five and one out. No, it’s not it’s not it’s not just that. It’s just that my pronunciations are so bad because Sutton used to have me every week for pronunciations on the podcast we used to do and I’m Yeah, it’s I would never be a TV com from that well-known linguist. Great job. Doing a great job. Great job there. Great job. Yeah, that well with all the sincerity that I would expect. Christopher Sutton, he’s in no position to criticize you there. Don’t forget you can email us [email protected]. Head to our social accounts which are on fire right now. Tik Tok whistleblowers podcast 2.5 million views nonetheless. Xblowers pod and on Instagram whistleblowers pod. Right, let’s talk to Nick Curios. The showman, the talent, the headline maker, the maverick. He lights up tennis, raw ability, fiery outbursts, plenty of moments of genius, and lots of controversy. He’s a proper pundit. I’ve got to know him really well the last 10 days or so. Good morning, Nick Curios. How you doing? Hey, Gordon. How are you? Yeah, good mate. Can’t can’t get can’t get enough of each other at this point. Amazing. I’ve seen more to you than my more to you than my family. Do you want me to book a restaurant for tonight? Just me and you. Candle light dinner. Yeah. I’ll bring Emra Canu along as well. Haven’t you bring right? Well, speaking of whistleblowers, I’ve been really looking forward to this because Mark Clattenburg here, right, is the most infamous British referee. I mean, a proper Marmite character. And I can tell he’s itching to speak to you, right? Because every I mean, he loves his tennis, right? And I know that he’s seen you play, but Mark, how would you like to umpire a maverick like Nick Curios? Well, where would I start? Actually, I wouldn’t want to umpire. I think that’s is that why umpire sit above so you can’t get at them. Is that so you can’t get really face to face with them and nose to nose like a footballer? Well, look, I feel like you you could maybe you and I could have some serious arguments and and and go at each other where the tennis umpires, they got no wit. Like they’re not they’re not quickwitted, they can’t speak, they don’t know trash talk. So that’s why they’re they’re up there because they wouldn’t last a second on the ground. Yeah. And it’s sometimes I remember saying things to footballers and they react in different ways and some I remember Adam Lana for example when I said you’ve changed since you played for England and he went to the newspapers. You know, I love the banter where it stays in house, but like you say, umpires seem to be quite regent. But serious, on a serious note, Nick, you know, sometimes, you know, your antics, the way you are to players, your opponents, ball boys, umpires, what does that send to the younger the younger generation, the younger players who want to play tennis? Um, look, yeah, sometimes I look back on on some of the things that I’ve I’ve done and um, you know, in the heat of the moment and and you can’t always be proud of it, but at the same time, you know, like tennis is more so under the under the microscope than other sports. You know, you’re on your own. The the the the microphones are right there, you know, it’s it’s it’s more under the magnifying glass in other sports. And I was speaking yesterday to Mource and he said the same thing. It’s like when he has a run in with the umpire, it’s not like more than half the conversations he has, no one will ever know what they’re about. Where I have a conversation with a ball kid, an umpire, every single conversation is under the microscope that, you know, people on the television can hear it. So, it’s more so I think the tradition of the sport, I guess I just wasn’t made for tennis at the end of the day. And, you know, look, I think I’ve been getting better with it with age, realizing that I am a role model to to a lot of kids out there that that want to play a sport. But, again, it it’s passion. And it comes, it doesn’t come from a bad place. It just comes from that competitive spirit. But yeah, I think I needed to manage those things better earlier in my career. But again, I was a 19 20-year-old kid on on a global stage where, you know, maybe I wasn’t ready to take on that responsibility. Um, but I think I’m a bit better with it now. It’s interesting, uh, Nick, that you you say that. I was reading, um, Andre Agassi’s autobiography recently. I’d heard him on I’d heard him on the Rodic podcast and it made me dig out his book uh which which I’ve reread and one of the things that comes through from from Agassi’s autobiography is just how mentally demanding life as a professional tennis player is on the road on your own apart from your your coach and your fitness coach etc. Um only you on the court as you say you’ve been drilled to do it since since you were a kid. Um, do you think people underestimate how how difficult that is to take all that psychological stuff onto the court with you? Well, I think the interesting thing about tennis is as well that, you know, if you look at every other professional sport pretty much apart from golf, you know, you you you know, we’re paying for everything. We’re paying for our our whole team, our coaches, our whole team, our hotels, our travel. Um, and you know, we’re away from for me personally being an Australian tennis player and and and being, you know, I love being around my family. You know, I’m I’m traveling for 7 8 months a year. Um, away, you know, alone, different time zones, different diet. There’s no routine. Tennis players, I guess we have to be very adaptable. And that’s why I think Novak Jovovich is got to be one of the greatest athletes in any sport because there’s no routine. like he’s in in two months he’s traveling to Asia, to Europe, to the United States, to Australia. He’s like there’s no what other sport in the world touches that many places. Um, you know, in a short amount of time. Um, and and yeah, you literally experience a loss nearly every every week. You just got to get back on the horse and and continue to to get back out there. So, tennis is an interesting one. Um, I think it’s definitely very under the radar of harder sports in the world, for sure. Nick, I thought you might want to ask Mark Clattenburg here while you’ve got him about electronic AI technology because this guy here has to defend V, right? But what about tennis? Cuz it’s driving you mad neck, right? Yeah. I mean, it’s been an absolute [ __ ] show um at Wimbledon. I mean, Wimbledon’s our, you know, arguably our Champions League. So, it’s like it’s it’s the best tournament we have in the world. And, you know, every pretty much every match now it’s like, oh, the there was a malfunction. Oh, we turned it off for a couple points. And it’s like, well, maybe Wimbledon should just be one of the tournaments where it’s just traditions never change. You have line umpires, you have challenges, and you know, I just don’t think that it’s worth having the argument over. I mean, look, I always want the sport to evolve, but I mean, what do you think? Like, this is our it’s our biggest sport in the world, and we’re still having malfunction. So, yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting, Dick. You know, football, it’s evolved over, you know, when VR was brought in, it was brought in. It wasn’t just brought into the Premier League and dropped in. It was over a period of time I think three four years mini tournaments youth tournament. What I find interesting is that it seems in Wimbledon they’ve gone probably listen to the players that everybody wants technology. Everybody wants to take the human element out because even the line judges and I and I’m I went to watch a game at center court once and I couldn’t even see the ball even back there cuz the way the pace and I’m thinking how do they actually say I don’t understand why they didn’t have the line jud for this year the line judges with a backup of the technology to check its accuracy and if the accuracy was 100% then next year they could say look the accuracy was so good let’s let’s move forward but let’s have the line judge but I’m a tradition like an like an extra blanket, you know. Yeah, I completely agree. That’s a great idea. But also, but also even just watching it, I found it strange cuz I was always used to looking at the line judges how well the dress it was traditional that that was Wimbledon. Exactly. And also, what about like John Mackenroe guys like me like we had some of the best content ever coming from runins with the line umpires like you cannot be serious like we’re still playing that 50 years down the track. So yeah, I mean I completely agree. They probably should have eased into it. Like I felt like Wimbledon just dropped it in this year and it’s and it’s and it’s been a disaster to be honest. Yeah, Nick, I was I was telling the boys earlier that you’re quite ply with Emanuel Adabayor. Yeah, I mean he I responded to that video he sent me yesterday, Gordon. Um and uh yeah, he was uh he responded back. He’s he’s he’s sending me more as we speak. We won’t tell you too much about that that content, but that’s the first time I’ve seen you blush. I know. It’s been great having a proper window into elite athletes, right Nick? Just so you know, that day Ian Ladyman sat here was reporting on the game where he was booked for uh running that full length of the pitch, but the man who booked him was Mark Clattenburg here in that game. That is the best thing ever. That’s got to be one of the best celebrations of all time. Yeah. And you know what? It goes back and you can if you look back at the video, he wouldn’t have had that goal if it wasn’t for my such a wonderful advantage that I played on the wing and then when he headed it in. Yeah. All I could think in me head was and then it was the full length of the pitch and I’m thinking, “Oh my god, did you have to book him? Did you have to book him?” Probably not. But then it was like the game, you know, with this the chairs getting thrown on the pitch. He could have avoided that. If he if he’d stayed within that area and celebrated, I probably would have let him. I can you know you know what in the heat of the moment and you look back at it now I would have done the same run the full length of the pitch because the app that he was taking but probably I was a bit of a like a Wimbledon umpire here and probably banked the letter you know but also it it’s actually cool that you booked him because it kind of makes it feel like it was an excessive celebration as well. It’s actually good that you booked him now that I think about it. Yeah, but just remind him of the wonderful advantage I did play. I I’ll I’ll tell him right now. I’ll tell him right now. I’ll tell him now. Nick, I wondered this the other day actually about whether you think you would have won more trophies if there was a hostile environment in tennis. So, say it was a more working-class sport, right? And you could get on the back of players and shout a little bit more and it was a bit more lively. I think you would have thrived in in those circumstances. Am I right? Yeah, definitely. I think um you know, as soon as I came on the scene, I I instantly felt that you know, even just talking towards your opponent was was not welcome. Um, so I kind of incorporated some tennis. I don’t know, just being around it. I I was very quiet and then I kind of let it out towards the middle stages and later stages of my career and that’s when I started having more success. But yeah, I feel like just some of these tennis players, I mean, look like Stephanos Titass saying that I bullied him on the court at Wimbledon. Like how do you get bullied in a non-cont sport and I’m literally like meters away from you the whole time? So, I feel like yeah, if it was a bit more of a hostile environment, I think probably I would have been I would have had a probably better career and probably won bigger titles cuz, you know, I played basketball growing up and, you know, that’s you know, we don’t hold back in in in that regard. So, I also think that that that I I lucky enough to have been to uh the Australian Open in in in Melbourne. I haven’t been I haven’t been to New York. But what struck me about Melbourne was how the atmosphere is different to Wimbledon. How you’re allowed to it’s not quite as stuffy. You’re allowed, you know, you can move around a bit more. You can talk. You don’t get all that kind of quiet please. Or we do we take all that too far out Wimbledon. Wimbledon or is that an essential part of the Wimbledon tradition? Yeah, I think I think Wimbledon is is it’s it’s the pinnacle of tennis. So I think not every tournament needs to be like that, but I kind of enjoy the the peace and quiet a little bit at Wimbledon sometimes from the crowd, but as you said, like Aussies just love a drink and it gets so rowdy on some of those courts and like they really like go they start speaking and trash talking the other player and it does get a bit rough and and I enjoy it. It’s like that’s homec court advantage, you know, like that’s how it should be. I feel like when one of your countrymen’s playing. But yeah, I think tennis is just I mean yesterday I’m just sitting watching like the BBC and I’m just like man like this sport’s not inviting to to people. Um and it’s it’s it’s it’s a tough sport honestly like it’s it’s I’ve really been made to feel uncomfortable throughout my entire career and they do make you feel like if you’re not one of them then you’re an alien almost. So um yeah it’s an interesting one. How do you funk it up then? How do you funk tennis up? Um how do you make it more appealing? H I mean look it you look at the youth and and and no one really like when’s the last time you you went to a group of kids and they’re like oh I really want to be I really want to play tennis and I really want to you know make it as a tennis player. It’s like you rarely see that and you see all these other sports like uh padell and pickle and all these other racket sports growing and tennis is kind of falling behind a little bit. So it’s an interesting one. I’m not too sure. I guess there just they they haven’t really embraced personalities I think in in tennis well at all. have kind of pushed them and and and cornered them, put them in a corner rather than, you know, get them out there and show like, look, if you’re a different personality, you can find a way in this sport and it’s a home here as well where it’s the opposite. Yeah. I’ve got one question, one more question for you, Nick. I’ve got one more question for you. Answer this honestly if you want. It’s up to you. I was reading a piece in one of the British newspapers uh the other day saying that um about 500 towels are are stolen by Wimbledon players every day. Oh yeah. Every day. Right. Every day. I don’t know. Every day. And they cost £40 each. So question for you. What is the what’s the naughtiest thing you’ve ever taken from Wimbledon, deliberately or not, and not returned? Well, the thing is we get given the towels at matches. So, you’re supposed to leave them. No, I don’t. I mean I mean, how stingy is Wimbledon then if we’re supposed to leave? Well, we we train our entire life to get there and we have to give a towel back that we wipe without sweat. I mean, come on. Um I don’t know about 500 a day. That’s That’s ridiculous. It’s not possible because what in the semi-finals when there’s four players left, what Carlos Alcarez is taking 250. Okay. Okay. I love that. I love that. A bit of pedantry. I love that. Stickler for detail. I I stand corrected. Last sorry, last week in the first week of Wimble in the first week. I could see that. I definitely I could see that the first couple days. Yeah. Players that, you know, because you look at majority of the draw like they don’t know if they’re going to be there again. You know, they’re they’re probably stealing like two or three towels for their family. Their family’s probably saying, “Oh, I can get me a towel.” So, yeah, I believe that. But, I mean, and every addition of the towel every year is different. So, yeah. I mean, I mean, as they should steal them all, like in my opinion, who cares? I know the real answer is is Nick Kerio stole to surpass his confidence. Well, I can’t even get into the I can’t even get into the grounds, Gordon. You know that. I I mean, again, the boys might not know this story, but Nick had a bit of trouble getting into the grounds the other day and they asked you they asked you for ID. A Wimbledon finalist getting asked for ID. I mean, again, Nick, that you were really cool and calm about it, but I think I would have lost my [ __ ] if that had happened. Well, I mean, look, it just I was in a bit of a rush and I was like, “All right, maybe I can just pick up my last a because when you if you make quarterfinals, you get like a little last a credential that gets you in.” So, I was like, “I’ll quickly pick it up um you know, just to save a ticket.” And then they were like, “No, we can’t get in now. If you don’t have ID, we’re going to have to body search you.” I was like, “I mean, this is absurd, but whatever.” I mean, it was kind of cool in a way. Couldn’t you have shown him a video on your phone of like the final that you’re playing? You know what I mean? I don’t know. I don’t want to be that guy, though. Mark Clattenber’s that guy. I’ve done that once or twice. Go on, man. I took I took 50 pound off a guy and he said with us one day, he said, “You’re not Mark Clattenburgger.” And I said, “No, no.” He said, “I think you’re bet you bet him£50.” So ended up taking 50. Well, to prove that you weren’t Mark Clattenburg. Yeah, I was. Sorry. Was it okay? Sorry, I was I was confused then. Nick, before we let you go, Mark’s famously had to escape a few football grounds in his Porsche at great speed because either a manager or a player wanted to break his neck and he gets to see those kind of confrontations behind the scenes, but does it ever boil over in tennis to the point where there’s a proper confrontation afterwards? Does that ever happen in the locker room? No, there’s there’s there’s none of that really to be honest. It’s a it’s it’s too there’s there’s too many like stewardists and there’s too many like like security around the locker rooms. Like it’s just it’s it’s not it it there’s no confrontation really to be honest. It’s there’s no it’s getting worse in the sense that every like every player likes each other now. It’s weird. It’s not like it was in the olden days. I’m not sure. I’m sure in the olden days there would have been a bit more confrontation, but now it’s it’s not like that at all. What about you and Yanick S? If you’re together I mean I don’t know if if we were in a room together I don’t know like m maybe I don’t feel like he’s more like the confrontational guy but um no not honestly nothing to be honest. Yeah. Just one last question from me Nick is what rules would you like to change in tennis? Well, I think speaking to Gordon about it, um, you know, the the best of five sets before the quarterfinals, I think there should be best of three sets and then quarterfinals onwards should be best of best of five sets. I think that would be I think we’ve learned from this week that it’d be more exciting. You know, obviously that Grior Dmitrov match against SA was was the example. You know, it it would have been over if if that if that rule was in and I think it you’d see a lot more upsets and it would be more exciting the first week. Um but yeah, it would I think that would be the first one I’d change. Nick, um before we let you go, we’ve got to congratulate you for landing a big gig doing the the final semi-finals for TNT. I appreciate that. Yeah, big look that Yeah. I mean, it’s I think it was I mean, look, I feel like I can add a lot of knowledge and a lot of fun to the sport even if I’m not playing. So, you know, I feel like over the last week, we we’ve got to know each other and you can understand that I got a lot of passion for the game and and I enjoy watching it and and you know, I’ve had some extreme experiences out there as well. So, and I’ve actually played in a Wimbledon final, so commentating that is is special to me and and it’s an honor as well in at the same time. I completely understand that it’s not a normal position to be in to to call such a great sporting event, but at the same time, I’m I’m really excited for it. What what I find interesting about that, Nick, is that one of my favorite TV analysts in the world is John is John Mackenroe. And I think he’s so good at what he did does. And I think part of the reason he’s so good at what he does is because he also was a was a flawed character on the court. He was a a genius, but also flawed. And I think he brings that level of understanding to his analysis. So I I hope that you know hope you can do the same. And congratulations on getting that gig. It’s a big deal. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. So right Nick our challenge is right if you can mention Mark Clattenburg in your commentary this weekend in the context of a decision it’s like well actually I spoke to a former elite referee Mark don’t say elite don’t say elite get killed on social media there’s your challenge can you mention Mark Clattenburg in your commentary this weekend well done well done good job guys Nick I’ll catch you later mate thank you so much over the guys I’ll see you later see you guys enjoy have a good one by Right, we’re going to talk about Chelsea now because Chelsea are in the headlines once again about signings and it’s really about sales this time. Right, so to give you a bit of background in the story, Chelsea are under big pressure from UEFA. They have to balance the books because the Champions League registration closes on the third, but things aren’t looking quite right. So, they’ve been fined 27 million quid so far. They face a further 51 million pound penalty if they don’t tow the line here. And here’s the thing, players are still unregistered. Now, the financial rules are tightening around the the top squad, right? So, your first team squad. So, Chelsea pretty much have to raise 60 million pounds from nowhere or some players will miss out on being registered for the Champions League, which is clearly a big deal. That feels like a massive story to me, Ian. Right. because they have and I know without naming names a lot of other Premier League clubs just cannot or don’t feel like there’s a level playing field when it comes to spend on on players for that first team squad. Yeah, this is this is as you say Gordon the twist on this story is not just about pounds and pence which can sometimes turn readers and listeners off kind of football money stories. Um but this is a threat uh by UEFA that says if Chelsea don’t balance their transfer legend as it were then uh the new signings players like Yao Pedro who’s just scored two goals to get them into the final of the club cup um and Liam Dap won’t be able won’t be able to play European football when the Champions League starts um in or in September. Now it it it’s one of those things that Chelsea fans will sit there and think, “Oh, it won’t happen. It’ll be okay. It won’t happen.” And from reading what I’ve read by people that I trust, it sounds as though Chelsea think this won’t happen either. But UEFA are serious about it and and it and it will happen if if Chelsea don’t get players out of out of the door. Um and that that is where we are where we are at with it. Um we know that there are players surplus to requirements at Chelsea, but going back to what we talked about Manchester United, the players that you don’t want, hard to get rid of them because they all earn so much money these days. So obviously they would like to get someone like Raheem Sterling um off the books. They would like to get on Kungu off the books. The big one for me is that they’ve been talking about Nonim Mudui going to going to Arsenal. Now that is something that if I was a Chelsea fan would alarm me greatly. young player, developing player, England international player talk now almost encouraged by the coach Enzo Mesa talked in America saying that if he wants to go he can go essentially if you get into if you get into that level when you’re looking to try to make things work then that is an indication that you’ve not been getting your recruitment strategy right at all. Mark do you think a huge fine from UEFA is a deterrent for a club like Chelsea? Everybody will have opinions on this, but if you’re going to if if you’re going to use the financial fair play and you you’re breaking it because you’ve overspent and the punishment is a monetary fine, well, what’s the difference? You know, you’re just paying more money. They’ve got money to spend. So, what what cares another 20 million? I think the slight issue is that any future signings won’t play in the Champions League. That is a small deterrent but it’s not the ultimate deterrent because if you want to stop these teams really doing it like it wasn’t just you know Chelsea um you know fine by UEFA there was other teams I think Aston Villa another team that were fine by UEFA if you don’t give a bigger deterrent they’ll just keep doing it I think financial fair play was brought in to stop you know rogue owners coming in and not being able to invest in football clubs I don’t see that now see owners coming in. They want to invest in football clubs. They want to invest in the stadium. They want to invest in the infrastructure in the cities. They want to spend a lot of money, which certainly helps the economy. It certainly helps the cities. It certainly helps the council. It helps a lot of things, but it impacts a lot of things. And I think the financial fair play for me is just one of the negative things that we keep talking about. We shouldn’t be talking about this week in week out. We should be talking about football and and and teams getting the best players into England because it seems to be restricted now that the best players are seem to avoid or trying to avoid England and then move into different other countries which strengthens their leagues and we’ve got to be careful in the future that we as the Premier League is probably the best league in the world and we want the best players to come and we want the you know the teams to be on a level playing field where everybody feels the same that they’re treated the same and for me Chelsea If Chelsea are guilty again, then it should be just the ultimate. You’re punished and you don’t play the next year’s Champions League. Champions League ban didn’t really work for Manchester City, did it? But do people take UEFA punishment seriously, Ian? Because this is the other thing that doesn’t tend to be mentioned is when you’ve got unlimited resources, spending money on lawyers isn’t a problem. And I’ve heard some language around that with one of the top four clubs where it was like, right, we’ll write a check for 30 million quid to get the best lawyers in the land to slow this down. So that’s another thing that plays a part here. Can’t think who you’re referring to there. Um but look, sporting sanctions, as Mark alluded to, there certainly hit hardest, don’t they? Whether that’s a point deduction or not being able to feel players in certain competitions, you know, were this to come to pass for Chelsea. And as I said, Chelsea are quite confident that it won’t, I think they probably have a couple of aces up their sleeve. Um, I was about to say they have a plan, although looking at a lot of what Chelsea Chelsea do in the market, I’m not sure that would be the right word. But sporting sanctions hang heavy over clubs. Of course they do. Um, you know, of course they do. Points deductions of of have of of have of of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of have of cause clubs like Everton, Nottingham Forest certain amount of grief. Leicester may even start may even carry points deduction into the Championship next season just like Sheffield United did last time around. that if you really want to if you really want to send warnings to clubs, that is the way to do it. I think what would worry me most if I was a Chelsea supporter would be the way that they continue to to do their recruitment in terms of, you know, we’ve had three years of the kind of Todd Bolley regime now and um that haphazard pattern still seems to be there. We had a ask Henry, our producer, to do some run some quick numbers before the show started. Um so Henry came back and said that um in that time of Bley ownership um Chelsea have signed 43 players. Um in that same time period Liverpool have signed 14 players, Arsenal have signed 16 players, Spurs 24. Those are the three clubs I asked him to look at. So that tells you that points there to um certainly a heavy heavy load on the recruitment department. And where’s and where’s the pattern? Where’s the pattern? So Nicholas Jackson at one point looked as though he was going to be the answer or they wanted him to be the answer um up front for them. That hasn’t worked out. So now they’ve gone for um now they’ve gone for Liam Dilap, totally different type of center forward. Now they’ve brought J Pedro in as well from Brighton, another type of attacking player. Does that say to you if that was your team that there’s a strategy be behind that recruitment and that there’s a clear pattern and a method and a real idea of what they want Moresca’s team to be next season still it still doesn’t you know they got into the Champions League okay skin of the teeth they might be about to win the club world cup don’t really care that much about that although it’s going to going to it’s already earned them 83 million pounds um but in terms of where the where they are going and what they’re and what they’re trying to do. Where is the where’s the reason? Where’s the method? There wasn’t any under in evidence under Pochettino, not an awful lot under under Graeme Potter either. I don’t see improvement from that point of view. There’s a really practical football point for me here. Right. And it’s having a huge first team squad of 40, 46, 48, whatever, however many players. And I remember anecdotally hearing that from another sports journalist about when Graeme Porter took over. He had so many players at training. How do you have a meaningful session where you’ve effectively got four 11s? It’s absolutely true. And there wasn’t even room for them to get changed. Wasn’t even room for them all to get changed. Even in my time watching Chelsea and being involved, you know, in the Premier League, Chelsea’s recruitment has been exactly the same for many, many years. You know, it hasn’t changed. All they did was sign players and move them out of the parent clubs. You know, they were what we call stockpiling. They were buying young players, sending them out on loan loan immediately, and they were still Chelsea players. It’s just now, you know, we’re still talking about it. There’s no difference within Chelsea Football Club that they sign players and then they try and move them on. It’s just unfortunate now that, you know, we for you know, highlighting now that if you don’t reach this certain level, you’re going to be fine. But for me, Chelsea have been doing this for years and years and years. If you look at your club, Mark, Newcastle, as as an example, what are Newcast Newcastle not having a particularly easy summer in the market and they’re constrained by uh uh financial spending rules as well as we know, but at least you can see what they’re kind of trying to do as well as hang on to Alexander Ezak. You know, they obviously think they need an upgrade in goal. So, they’re trying to get James Trafford. Okay. They obviously have identified that they’ve had some issues wide. For example, Harvey Barnes hasn’t um already always been fit. So they’ve they’ve signing antthony Anthony Alanganger. I think they’ve paid over the top for for Alanganger. 55 million pound. That seems a lot, but if he does the job, nobody will talk about that. But at least you can see what they’re doing. You can see a method to what where they’re trying to strengthen in serious in certain areas. Can’t see. You never seem really see that at Chelsea. It still looks as if the as if it’s just more more more more will be the answer. Yeah. Yeah, but the it’s interesting that because if Newcastle United sign a player of 55 million, he’s got to be an instant success. This is just the way the Northeast is and unfortunately the the burden on players and I’ve seen that many times at Newcast having that burden of that big transfer fee and it’s huge because fans expect more at Chelsea, you know, the big side, the really big sides over the years. You can you can afford to lose an 80 million pound player. Look at Man United, you know, Anthony for example, if that was a Newcastle United signing, probably the coach would lose his job or the recruitment people would be sacked behind because Newcastle United as a club and the fan base wouldn’t accept a transfer that doesn’t work. And Newcastle have to always be careful. But going back, you know, just talking as a separate point, it’s interesting we talk about financial fair play and clubs in and Newcastle, how they’re slightly different in their recruitment. Saudi Arabia. My time in Saudi Arabia when I was when I was when I was inside uh head of refereeing and and refereeing there, I had many meetings with the with the the sports ministers and they always wanted to buy an English club always. And they asked me my opinion about, you know, fan bases, what clubs they could be. And of course, I was always going to promote Newcastle. There was other clubs listed. But non Saudis, they get a little bit, you know, patchy when they can’t have the best. And at the moment, Newcastle can’t compete compete compete with the best. And you know, it’s frustrating every season that they get restricted that they can’t sign this player, they can’t sign this player, they can’t because Saudi have the pot of money. They can go and throw 500, 600, 700 million into a playing squad, but they can’t spend it. And that must be frustrating as an owner. And that takes us into the that takes us into a different conversation which probably haven’t got time for. That’s a conversation about whether the spending rules are fit for purpose. And there’s a certain I have certain sympathy with the argument that they’re not. And we could talk about that all day if we wanted to. But the fact is that these are the rules. These are the rules. They are here. These are the rules. Okay? And Chelsea again find themselves pushed so far up against the limit, right up against the edges of what they can and can’t do that it it goes without without saying that eventually they will get themselves the wrong side of the line. they will get themselves into a situation that they can’t get out of. There’s a really, again, I don’t want to sound like I’ve swallowed a management bible this week, right? But parto management is about an 80% and a 20% divide where you end up spending 80% of your time focusing on 20% of the problem, but if you look at Chelsea and those clubs with massive squads, I think that’s about 80% of your workforce is unhappy because they’re not playing. Yeah. So, how on earth do you manage the morale of a squad where the overwhelming majority are not happy? From a w It’s a very good point. I mean from a wider point of view looking at it from an English football point of view or just a general point of view you worry about some of those players that they’ll just they’ll go there and get lost. I think Keen and Zbury Hall is a really good example. Very very good player for Leicester under Mesa when they got promoted from the Championship back into the Premier League a couple of seasons ago. Mesa took him with him to Chelsea and this is an exaggeration. He’s almost dis he’s almost disappeared. And so you end up there and he’s young and he’s got time to come back. Can he drink water, you know, and and you’ve got players like that who are just kind of sucked into this vortex at Stamford Bridge and you wonder where and when and in what condition they’ll ever come out again and how do you shine in training? But you talk about morale being involved in the a football club last year. You know, I used to say the same things. God, you’ve got so many players in your squad. How do you keep them all happy? And a coach will say the same thing all the time. They want as many as they can. And you’re thinking, hold on, you’ve got you’ve got to manage that. They want because they’ve got injuries, they’ve got suspensions, they’ve got players unhappy. And coaches every time say the same thing to me. They want as many players as they can. And I think that creates a problem. They don’t see it as a problem. They would rather have as many choices because at the end of the day, it’s all about winning football matches. It’s interesting that arguably the best coach in the in the country, Pep Guardiola, has been arguing at City, Man City for a smaller squad, for a smaller squad. the reasons that you reasons that you point out out Gordon and to be fair the club that you talk about there Nottingham Forest Mark at least they have learned their lessons in the market they had that summer when they came up under Steve Cooper when they just flooded the dressing room at the city ground with people that nobody’ ever heard of and they almost went back down again they’ve learned their lesson from that and now they make less signings but they make fewer signings but they make better signings well if you have three for each position it’s 33 so having 40 more than 45 is crazy isn’t it absolutely crazy right then that’s it for the latest episode of whistleblowers we’re back on Tuesday for the next installment. Until then, please follow us in socials. [email protected] if you want to email us a question and you can head to our social accounts. Remember, xblowers pod tick tock whistleblowers podcast. Instagram is whistleblowers pod. Right, that leaves us with one thing to do. Mark Clattenburg, can you blow the fulltime whistle, please? If you want to watch more episodes of Whistleblowers, please subscribe to the YouTube channel. We’ll keep you up to date all the way through the summer with everything that’s happening in the world of
