In Episode 26 of Must Play, we head to the Pacific Northwest to take on a course that’s bold, brawny, and built for championships: Chambers Bay Golf Course. With its dramatic elevation changes, wide fescue fairways, and stunning Puget Sound views, this municipal masterpiece has sparked debate ever since the 2015 U.S. Open—and we’re here to settle whether it truly earns the Must Play stamp.
Joining us is returning guest Chris Jones, who brings a fresh perspective as we break Chambers Bay Golf Course down across our usual categories: design, conditions, food at the turn, vibes, and the all-important post-round experience. Is it worth the hype? Is it worth the trek? And where does it rank in the pantheon of West Coast public golf?
If you’re searching for a Chambers Bay Golf Course review, we’ve got you covered—from the moment you step onto the first tee to the final putt on that wild, wide-open finishing stretch. This course doesn’t just test your game—it asks you to rethink how you play.
This episode of Must Play is sponsored by Clinch Golf (https://www.clinchgolf.com). Use code ‘fairwagers’ for 10% off today!
Show Note: Andrew Putnam was the brother of the caddie Jones had at Chambers Bay that day.
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Today on Must Play, we cover the top public golf course in the state of Washington. We’re talking about Chambers Bay, just outside of Tacoma. I’m Sean Massie and with me as always is TJ Van Gutton. This week, our guest is none other than the merch boy himself, Chris Jones. Jonesy, welcome back to the pod. Thank you for having me. Um, I’m excited to be here. Unfortunately, I have no merch, no new merch to talk about. I had I planned on wearing just fullon Chambers gear, but um I made no purchases, so I may have lost the the crown. Well, also also tipping your tipping your hand early to the Jonesy test. Yikes. Well, he’s got Oh, yeah. That’s the thing is I have I had too much. There was nothing new that I needed to get. Okay. Okay. I saw the Chambers vest when we were in San Francisco the other week. He was wearing it around and I wore it when I played there. So, everyone thought like, “Oh, this guy plays here all the time.” And I had to disappoint everyone that I don’t play there all the time. Yeah, that’s what everybody thought. They aka only Jonesy. But that’s fine. It’s fine. Okay, let’s talk about that. So, you just played on Sunday. How was it? It was amazing. The weather was perfect. It was a little warm. Um, I actually played with two people. They have different membership levels and both of the guys I played with were members and then one of the guys girlfriends was also a member. So, they introduced me to some cool new things. Um, I played okay. I puted poorly. I’m sure we’ll get into that later. Um, I don’t know. Is 40 putts a bad thing? I don’t know. But I had an amazing time. So, was the putting just like a abnormal like you know that’s not happening to you on other courses right now? Like was it Chambers or was it you? It Well, it definitely was me, but I think part of it was Chambers. Even when I would watch the people I was playing with putt, they would hit it and I’d be like, “Oh, that’s going way past.” And then they would drain it and it was like perfect speed. I My caddy made the comment to me cuz I was trying to get help. And he’s like, “I just don’t like your pace is so off. It’s hard for me to tell you like two cups right with normal pace or like three cups right because you’re putting so slow like I was like well that’s tough for me to hear but I need you to try something. Okay. Flashback to the caddy Sean had at Bandit where he was talking about well what’s your how how hard are you trying to hit this when he was trying to give him the line and you don’t actually think about it until you get a caddy and then it’s like oh that’s a that’s not a thing that I’ve ever really thought about. It’s the It’s the same thing as if you want to get in somebody’s head, ask them if they hold their breath or don’t hold their breath when they’re hitting the ball. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I blame it on the elements because when I got there it was I was putting it was 7:00 little dew on the putting green. So when I was getting my pacing out and then it warmed up, got super warm. So it’s it wasn’t my fault. It was the elements. Okay. How was the caddy? Okay. Caddy was good. Can we dive into this? Are we ready for it? Yeah. for it. Okay. Caddy was good. Student um showed up by the third hole. Miscommunication with me. Wait, showed up by the third hole. Yeah. So, I put I I said I called, nobody answered. So, you could submit for a caddy via email or a form. So, I did that, got the confirmation. I was like, “All right, cool. I guess we’re good.” And I show up, we go to the first team, you know, I there was a caddy lingering. I was like, “Oh, that’s my guy.” And then it was our tea time and he wasn’t coming over. So, I go to the starter. I’m like, “Hey, I ordered a caddy.” And he’s kind of gives me the face like, “Oh we don’t have one.” So he’s like, “Is it all right if I get you someone by the third hole?” And sure enough, the second I walk off the green on two, there was a caddy ready. So So he lived like seven minutes away and they text him and he made it. Okay. All right. Well, that’s cool of the caddy to show up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He I did have to I had to make several requests like I need help with these reads please. And and on the first green on the third hole on the first green uh he did he gave me nothing. And I had told him I just three putted the first two holes like gave me no read. Fourth hole I’m like okay what do we got here? He’s like what do you see? And I was like oh dude come on man I don’t see anything. He lost to I I mean to to defend the guy a little bit. He’s not here to to stand his ground. He’s got to know a little bit about your game, too, before he can kind of give you some some feel and some tips and some help, right? Like I guess just being generous. I feel like you at least give a line, you know? It’s the second time. It’s the second time I’ve had a caddy there. the first time was I forget the guy’s name, but his brother plays on the tour. Um, oh, I’m blanking on his name. Anyway, he was just like Savant. He would hold the flag stick down like just putt it to here and I had the best round I’ve ever had at Chambers when I was with that guy. I should find the name. That’s a That’s a big miss for me there not to have his name. But yeah, we’ll drop it in the we’ll drop it in the show notes. Yeah. Yeah. also thoroughly aware Sean and I keep saying we’ll put it in the show notes or we’ll put it in the description and then we’re not doing that at all. We’ve yet to follow on that. So if you’re one of the, you know, if you’re one of the listeners or viewers at home, feel free to call us out on leaving those out and we’ll get them back. I’m gonna I’m gonna wave my arm so this clip gets my attention in the edit. Okay. I’m I’m finding you the answer right now. Okay. Putting them. Well, putting them putting them Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Um, okay. Wait. So, first off, what TE’s did you play? Because I know Chambers has a bunch of TE’s and that dictates your round. Yeah. Okay. So, we walk up. The first guy I talked to, um, he’s in a Chambers visor. Um, so like, all right, this guy definitely plays here. He obviously turns out he’s vest. I’m in a Chambers vest, so we should be vibing. And I’m like, hey, what? I see the other guy walking up. I’m like, oh, what tip or what tips? What t are you playing today? and he’s like, “Oh, I was thinking about playing the Navies.” And so I looked down and I just I was like, “The Tips?” You know, like kind of appalled. And he that he could sense that I was like not down to play the tips. And so he’s like, “Oh, I mean, you know, or we could figure out if we all want to play from the same teams, we could figure something out.” So we ended up playing the Navy sand combos, which I think was like 6,700 yards. I think tips were 71. I don’t know, something like that. Do you want to spoil for the listeners what you shot? Yeah. So, I shot a 92 with 40 putts, which is crazy to me. I saw your scorecard come in on 18 birdies and I was like, there’s no big numbers on this. Like, no. A bunch of sixes and fives. Like, I saw and I was like, so he must have been striking well. And then you said the 40 putt thing and I was like, oh yeah, I played good golf. I think that’s like, you know, my putting became a joke with the entire group. Yeah. Um, and I think we were able to joke about it because I was playing good golf. Shots were good. They were clean. I just God, I could not putt. How many uh I don’t want to go like too far down on like Jonesy’s round here specifically. We’re supposed to be talking about the course, but like this also kind of relates back to the course. How many green and regs do you think you hit? Do you think you hit a third? Two/3s? I hit I hit a third. You hit a third. I was 33%. Courses like Bandon are so not Bandon, sorry, Chambers are so difficult where like you get pumped to hit a green and reggg and then you walk up there and you’re like, oh my god, this is like a triple breaker downhill. Like it’s very easy to like take what is what was just a really exciting like, oh, par4. I hit two really good shots, hit a good drive off the T, hit a good iron in, I’m on the green, and then all of a sudden you’re just threejacking, like easily threejacking cuz you’re you hit a green and you hit like a sliver of the green or you’re you you don’t even if a caddy gives you the tip on where to put the ball, you necessarily don’t have the control or the placement or the yardage to put that ball there. So then you’re left in a position where he’s like, ah, you don’t want to be there. Well, that was a big part of the day is so the the caddy definitely wanted me to lay up more than I wanted to lay up. And because we were playing tips on some of those par4s, there were two par fours I had to lay up on a par4 cuz he was like, “You do not want to go after this green. You’re not going to hold it. You’re going to go off into this collection area and then you have no good shot coming in.” Yeah, there were yeah multiple par4s that I was laying up into to give myself like 100 yards on the chambers is sneaky like that too with you have elevation change right on a lot of holes and then you have bunkers a lot of big bunkers like penalizing ones where yeah you have to go out sideways or backwards in some cases so like you really need to figure out how to keep it on the short stuff and I mean I would understand like that’s the move on some holes but when you’re putting like you were putting that Hey, that’s a hard pill to swallow to be like, I need to get up there as fast as possible, sir. Well, exactly. Cuz on if I’m laying up on a par4, I’m not making that putt. That the way that day was going, I’m not making that putt. So, it’s an automatic bogey no matter what. If I’m laying up on a par4, but he was right. Like, I gave myself better shots in. I just I could not make a putt. It was It was tough. The other thing I wanted to know about your round, and we’ll talk about this, is the turn stand. Uh you reported that it wasn’t open yet. Yeah. So I played in January and they’re like, “Yeah, it’s going to be ready beginning of June.” So I just always had that we scheduled this podcast. And so I was like, “Oh, good. It’s end of June. I’m going to go check it out.” I could have called and said like, “What’s up with Turnstand? Is it open?” No. The second I got on property, the guy was like, “Oh, and just so you know, like turnstand’s not going to be open till probably October, maybe 2026.” I was like, “Cool.” Stoked stoked I’m here. Yeah. Nobody has faith that it’s going to be done anytime soon. So, there was nothing you could get in between the holes down there or was there there it’s that old turnstand is gone, but there were it’s all out of a trailer now. So, it’s it’s a smaller, you know, they used to have like some pretty good sandwiches and stuff, but now it’s just like it’s beers and Gatorades and Snickers and that stuff. But TJ, I think you know, what are they planning on building there or what’s the what’s the new turn stand supposed to be like? Is it like a a bigger building as well? Yeah, it’s definitely I mean, the old one has no indoors. The the old If you’ve been to Chambers before January of this year when they tore it down, it was strictly outside, strictly park benches. It was two bathrooms, the stand where the girl worked inside of there, and then I think there was like a back room for like the caddies, like a Yeah, one might one might even call it a caddy shack. Um, but uh but yeah, it was pretty much that and then just the benches outside. So, the new one, I believe, is going to have an actual indoors. And from what it looks like from the renderings is it’s going to have like probably not full 360 windows, but it looks like it’s having windows on three of the sides so that there’s always a view out to the bed, uh, and out to the golf course, which is going to be really, really cool. Um, and I would assume they’ll probably still have some tables outside and whatnot. Yeah, I took pictures of what you know current state. So maybe you can show some of those now with the magic of editing. Um I already have a complaint though is that it it’s probably going to have great views. Like it does look nice. It’s going to be cool. It’s going to be an awesome spot to have a beer pre-round, post round, whatever. But I don’t know what you’re going to be watching. I guess like you could maybe watch up the hill at 8 or something. But you don’t see like I would like to see people finishing on 18. You’re you can’t there’s no view that I can see from there. The the whole course is not set up to put a turn stand almost anywhere like that, right? Like even the even the old one like you the the old one was tucked behind that putting green and you can’t see out to the tea all the way on one and then I think because 18 doesn’t run like all the way up to that street and where below you got to walk 18’s below. And that’s what I Yeah, that’s what I was going to get at was that 18 is below so you can’t you’d have to like take away the street that’s there or something. You could actually maybe you’ll be able to see nine green which would be cool. Yeah. Um but yeah, I don’t know. It is going to be a massive improvement though when it’s there. 100%. Yeah. So, speaking of that, TJ, I want to start with you on our first impressions. You and I got to play this uh for the first time together. Um what was your first impression of the overall experience uh beyond the turn stand and obviously the difficulty of the course? Yeah, painting the uh the full picture, we drove up from Portland/Vancouver. We stayed in Portland. We were doing the rounds with the boys uh and then went and scooped up Jonesy in Vancouver on the way up there. Uh the drive up’s beautiful. Uh there’s no doubt about that if you’re making that drive in. I don’t know if I can say that the drive from Tacoma is as beautiful as uh the drive up from Vancouver cuz you’re not getting that whole Columbia River Gorge. I won’t take Sean’s uh full spiel about how beautiful that whole area is geography wise because that’s probably his. But um first impressions uh starter greeted us out at the car. not a starter, but some of the staff greeted us out of the car and was very like friendly and intuitive on where we needed to go, what we needed to do, cuz the the pro shops up at the top of the course and then you have to take a shuttle down to get to the actual course. Um, so it’s good that they sometimes we play courses and you just are walking around like aimlessly where you don’t know where to go or where to drop your bag or any of that stuff. So, that’s a good that’s a good like you don’t see it on the bottom line and it’s not the thing that anybody like necessarily like talks about or remembers the most about their experience, but it’s just a good touch in general. Uh the view from up top is incredible. Uh looking all the way down at the course, it’s it’s absolutely stunning. Every every hole on this golf course has a view of the bay. So, that’s super cool that you’re always going to be able to just turn and look out cuz there’s one tree out on the course, so nothing obstructs that view really. Um, and there’s no like holes that are fully built down into like valleys to where you can’t see up and out of it at some point. Uh, I think for me, one of the biggest things, yes, this course is super cool, super historic, they held a US Open here, but man is this course hard. and we just leaned into it talking about Jones’s round and playing at 7100 and having to even force some some layups on on par fours. And by no means is is Jones a short player when it comes to the game of golf. I would say that you’re an above average when it comes to distance, Jones. And that’s how difficult it can be. Just be like Caddy said, the shots that you have to hit are extremely difficult at this course. Um there’s a lot there’s a decent amount of space. Uh obviously if you’re going to be off the fairways, you’re gonna find yourself in some you’re gonna you’re gonna find your ball, but it’s not going to be in the most ideal of conditions to hit out of. So it’s on a hill or something. Yeah. Right. Oh my gosh. So many so many even like uh it like I I know I’ve never played Augustine. I can’t liken it to Augusta, but like weird fairway lies where ball is well above or below your feet when you’re in the fairway. So, like this is a course that like as you end up playing more, you probably get more uh comfortable with where you should be trying to put the ball and being like, “Oh, what I thought was a completely safe shot.” And that’s that’s how they kind of go you in is they say, “Oh, here’s all this room out there on the left.” And then you you hit it out to the left because it’s the safe shot. And then you walk over there and you’re like, “Cool. The ball is 6 in above my feet in a fairway here.” Like that’s that’s why they give me all of that space. What about the uh restaurant post patio scene? We’ll get into it in the pros and cons, but what do you think about that? So, the view is obviously incredible from up there. The day that we happen to be there, obviously, this can be an anomaly. This could have just been this day, but they were not willing to sit us out on the patio because they did not have enough staff for it, I believe. Or was the patio? It’s like that. It’s like that every time. No matter what, no matter when, it is hard to get a spot. I talk to the the again the people that I play with play there all the time. Same complaints. They’re like so frustrated trying to get a table there after rounds. Yeah. Okay. So, that’s I I I think almost every time we’ve talked to either you Jones or or our buddy Alex, you guys have gone and gotten dinner somewhere else after that round, which you pretty much have to get dinner or lunch after your round because of the drive back to to Vancouver or Portland. Yeah. Um, also humongous miss on whoever uh architected this building and did not have the bar inside the restaurant facing out to look out over the rest of of the golf course. Like they definitely should have built the bar to where it had one of those roller windows behind the bartender to where you could sit at the bar and look out at the bay. 100%. I thought that when we went in. And I was like, why would they put us facing this way? And the inside felt almost like a temporary restaurant of sorts. I don’t know how to describe it. It just felt like this was this was the restaurant. I was expecting something more. It very much feels like an afterthought to the restaurant, right? Totally. Yeah. But but which is which is weird because normally you would think if it’s an afterthought that means that you have this golf course, you have this pro shop and then you build the restaurant but you don’t build the restaurant perfectly the way that you want it. So it almost feels like it’s like the inverse like it was an existing structure and then they added a pro shop and a golf course to it. I don’t know. Sean, is this is this a segue? Is this a segue? Did I just did I just I promise you I did not do that intentionally, but no. Yeah, you don’t know the history before I come to the spot. So, that could be a a great segue. Real quick though on first impression, I just wanted to add because you touched on everything else is when I go on a golf trip with you guys and I’m going somewhere that I’m excited to go. It’s like a place that it’s not just a new course, but it’s like a destination course. I would categorize Chambers as like a destination course. I get really excited beyond just the golf course when I get an experience of something I can’t get back home. And for me, that was the view of the Puet Sound and just that walk right from the parking lot looking out all over it. It was so cool to stand there before we started and you take a shuttle to get down. Before we hopped in the shuttle, the guy was already like loading stuff and was like waiting on us and I was like, I don’t really want to go yet. I kind of want to just stand here and soak this in because where else can you stand and get that much of an elevated view over islands and the water and just Yeah, it’s so gorgeous. Um, so that was a really big first impression for me. And then the other thing was the every course has a vibe to it which we talk about in our test. Um, but Chambers had a lot of people there that felt like they were making this one of their bucket list courses or courses that they wanted to go play. So, they either pay for the caddies, they had large groups out there, people were there early warming up for like over an hour like people made a habit of getting here not right before their tea time. Like go soak it in essentially before you tee off. And when you go to Bandon, Bandon feels like that, too, where you’ve got guys just, you know, putting, shooting grabbing their second drinks before they even tee off at some of these courses because where else are you going to go? Um, and so I thought it was cool that Chambers was a course in town that felt resort like where people were making a day of it versus a round of it. So, that was a really cool feeling and make it kind of takes me out there. Um, and then we’ll get into cons. I’ll save that for when we get into pros and cons. Okay, so let’s get into the history, but before we do, we’re going to hear about our sponsor from the PNW, Clinch Golf. This episode of MustPlay is brought to you by Clinch Golf, a brand that we love and stand behind. Clinch Golf is reimagining the golf glove with cuttingedge performance materials that outlast and outperform leather gloves. Traditional gloves wear out fast, they lose their grip, and they can’t handle the elements. Clinch’s tactile gloves deliver allseason traction. They maintain their grip even when wet, and they’re going to last twice as long. Plus, they’re breathable, washable, and they’re touchscreen friendly, so you can still check in on those parlays while you’re out on the course. It’s time to upgrade your golf game with the next generation of golf club gloves. See the difference for yourself at clinchgolf.com and use promo code fair wagers for 10% off. All right, let’s jump into the history of Chambers Bay. I’m going to ask a few trivia questions along the way here, but we’re actually going to start with who this whole place is named after, and that is Thomas McCutchen Chambers. By the way, bring back middle names. I feel like when you read the history, everyone’s got three names nowadays, too. He’s also got a You also got to drop his middle name as to not be confused with Sun’s basketball legend Tom Chambers. Tom Chambers. Tom Chambers. There you go. Not to be confused with Tom Chambers from the Suns. Um, okay. So, Chambers was Irishborn. He was uh actually the husband to Andrew Jackson’s cousin. So he has a relationship to one of the presidents of the United States and he traveled all over um and made his way out west in 1845 stopping in the Wamtt Valley first and then making his way up and Chambers and his family arrived in Jones. Am I pronouncing this right? Stelum I think it’s still Stilicum. No, I’m I did that because I did the same thing two times ago and I was just asking about that little town and I said styllyum and the caddy was trying to be polite and he’s like oh yeah Stilicum or however the hell he say something like that. The one the one where they don’t clear the one where they don’t fully correct you. They just say it the right way and hope that you’ll just pick up on it. Yeah. Yeah. You just hate yourself for like a couple minutes. Yeah. I’m so glad I asked because I say it a few more times. Okay, so Chambers and his family arrived in Silicum and they took possession of property surrounding Heath Creek, also known as Silicon Creek, through a land donation claim. But this didn’t jive with the people who had already laid claim to this land as part of their empire. So the Brits essentially were like, “This is our land. What the hell are you doing?” Uh, and Chambers is like, “No, this is ours and I’m I’m settling here.” And that didn’t sit well with the British authorities. And so how did Chambers settle this with them? In a very American way, with a gun. So the British officials did something that all Brits do. They sent a strongly worded letter to Chambers warning him of the dire consequences if he didn’t vacate this land. Chambers ignored the threats. Officials actually paid a visit to Chambers Bay uh to his home. And Chambers argued his point, quote unquote, by resting the barrel of his rifle on the fence while the Brits stated their case from the other side of the fence. made it quite clear he wasn’t going anywhere and the British actually never bothered him again. So Chambers got this land by basically intimidating the hell out of the British. Wow. Um so in 1848 Chambers was actually appointed justice of the county commissioner of Lewis County and an office he held until the division of the Oregon territory territory in the Washington territory. So he was basically there when the two states became states essentially and separated out. And in 1850, he started to begin a business empire by opening the first three-story grist mill at Chambers Creek, a sawmill following two years later. And Chambers actually had other business ambitions and eventually became a judge uh that he would get in 1854. Everything Chambers did was actually seen as being of the best quality, including his attire. He was always well-dressed. One story has it that a Stilicum resident was greeting his brother as he arrived at the docks and the brother was wearing a top hat and the Stilicum brother quickly knocked it off his head, kicked it on the ground and said, “No one wears a top hat other than the honorable Judge Chambers.” So, this guy’s got a reputation in town. Chambers though would pass away in 1876, leaving his mill and land behind. And now this was becoming Chambers Bay and was taken over by the federal government and was soon put to use by building military forts. There’s three forts in the Pugent Sound, Fort Casey, Fort Warden, and Fort Flagler. All of which were built by a company called Pacific Bridge Company in the 1890s. The Pacific Bridge Company would actually build a gravel mine at Chambers Bay. So this is the Corey that you know Chambers is is known for was built by Pacific Bridge Co. And they needed this Corey to build all of the footers and concrete for the bridges that they were building throughout the early 1900s. And this is where I’m very excited to tell Jones that Chambers Bay actually has a even closer relationship to him than he knows. So Jones, okay, the actual rock that makes up the concrete and came from the Chambers Bay Corey went into five bridges that I know you use on a fairly regular basis to get into Portland. Can you name five bridges that they built with chambers? Five bridges in the Portland area that I have been over with you. Oh god. So, the I5 bridge, they built the I5 bridge. Uh, the 405 bridge. Riveting content, by the way. I apologize for not. No, the rest are over the Wamut. Oh. Um, I don’t know all the name. I I I don’t know all the names of those bridges. So, they built the St. John’s Bridge. The one Oh my god, I love that bridge. The one I know you love. Great bridge. They built they built the Burnside Bridge, the Morrison Bridge, and the Ross Island Bridge. So they built they actually built more than that, but those are the ones they built over the Wamtt. They also built the very beautiful bridge over Bridal Falls in Multma Falls. Oh, okay. Nice. So they built that. They built the Louiswis and Clark bridge, which I know you’ve taken to go to Atoria. And they actually built part of the Golden Gate and the Hoover Dam. So these guys have their hands on a lot of stuff. Wow. We were just on the Golden Gate Bridge. Holy cow. Yep. Bridge guys. Pacific Bridge Company. They’re everywhere. So gravel was mined at the Chambers Bay Quarry for more than a century and the owners changed throughout this all the way until 2003 when Pierce County took over the 650 acre property. It bought the site in the early 1990s but allowed mining for another decade. Pierce County though had plans for the area including an 18hole links golf course, a wastewater treatment facility, sports fields, and an environmental services building. The executive at Pierce County named John John Leadenberg himself, a golfer, proposed the conversion of the Corey into a golf course with the sole intention of actually hosting the US Open. So, when you hear people say Chambers Bay was built for US Opens, it literally was. He wanted this to be a major uh golf course uh for championships. So, the proposal was controversial, but was pushed through by Leadenberg, who selected the design team and managers for the future course. The course’s location was intended to resemble the Oregon Dunes and design as a prominent public course, and it was inspired by Tory Pines. The course itself was British link style due to the Pacific Northwest similar climate. The course cost $20 million to build and was labeled Leadenberg’s folly by critics, but was wellreceived by golfers. So, who designed this? The county brought in Robert Trent Jones Jr. to design the golf course, and it was opened in 2007 for public play. Chambers soon after made its championship debut by hosting the 2010 US Amitter just 3 years after opening. It had a unique design, wide fairways, lumpy greens, however, firm services, and it sparked debate about its toughness, but ultimately proved to be a worthy challenge. It was the first US amiter to be held on a public course in the state of Washington and Chambers Bay set attendance records and earned praise for a sustainable nature-driven approach. Then came 2015 which you guys all know I was probably going to bring up in this history. The US Open was held there and this was also a tournament of first. It was the first US Open in the P&W, the first on fescue greens, fine fescue greens, excuse me, and the first to feature a hole played as both a par4 and a par five on different days. This also marked, and I regret they don’t do this anymore, the Fox Sports debut in broadcasting, the US Open. If anyone’s watched that Fox Sports broadcast, it’s so good. It is really, really good. Um, what what makes that one special versus NBC, ABC, CBS? You got like Joe Buck on there talking golf and just like bringing a baseball field or football field to the to the broadcast. Okay. And it also had uh for the first time some of the different I don’t know if they did the shot tracer first, but they did some tech first that then got picked up by CBS and the rest. I’ll have to figure out what it was. Uh, shout out to CBS the other day who I I saw have a shot tracer on like a parallel view of the hole and the camera was moving with the tracer and I was like this is we’re finally we’re finally taking like the next step in evolution of of actual shot tracers on actual broadcasts. Like you guys have all this technology. Let’s stop just doing one from dead behind the golfer and watching it go out and then cutting to the fairway and where it lands. Did you see the one at the Travelers where the color of the tracer turns based on whether it’s predicted to go in the fairway or not? No. That’s kind of sick, too. It was sick. So, like when Tommy would hit his drive, it was green and if it started going left, it started turning like a fade into a yellow and then a red. Wow. I like that. I I’ I’d like to comment on the Fox broadcast real quick. Please. Didn’t Didn’t like it. I I like Joe Buck. I am a Joe Buck guy. I don’t like him calling golf. I didn’t enjoy that. Also, I think they were piping in the ball in the cup. Maybe they pioneered that technology. Maybe cuz to me it was egregious cuz I watched the final nine of the final round like a month ago on a flight. Uh didn’t love it. So just different viewpoint. Interesting. Different strokes, different folks. I get it. You’re a gymnance guy, aren’t you? Yes, 100%. Who isn’t though? Yeah, how can you not be? Okay, going to wrap up this with one more trivia question. This one for you, TJ. So, the tournament conditions were the story line of the US Open in 2015. Several players described the greens as bumpy and difficult to putt. Some comparing them to broccoli and saying that they were the worst greens they had ever played on. Can you name who threeped on 18 to hand speed the US Open victory at Chambers? It’s uh it’s DJ, isn’t it? It was DJ. Yes. Yes. Dude, I always I always talk about how I know nothing about golf and I think I’ve just heard about this one so much cuz so many people talk about this uh prime Jordan Speath moment and prime Jordan Spith years that I think it it comes up all the time that DJ that Spith wasn’t actually playing as well as he as he was or as everyone remembers that DJ kind of choked it actually. Yeah, he totally did. considered one of the biggest chokes in golf history. And he would eventually, you know, talk about the greens as well, obviously take some pressure off himself, but just to put it in perspective, he stood on the 18th green with a chance for an eagle putt. Okay, the eagle putt would have handed him the victory. That was from 12 ft. The eagle putt was from 12 feet and he three putted from 12 feet. Jones, how much better do you feel right now? Yeah, I it does make me feel better for sure because I I even think the birdie putt would have won him the tournament as well, right? Or no, without a tie. Birdie would have put him in a playoff with speed and he missed that putt uh to basically lip out and hand it to pillow fight finish. Although I think Spath definitely birdied 18, so you can’t maybe you can’t say pillow fight, but there’s like a plaque on 18 where speed hit his shot. That is kind of funny cuz like cool, I guess, but also that could have meant nothing if DJ makes the putt or it goes to a playoff, you know, like imagine a spot on the green where it’s like DJ missed three putted from here. That would be amazing. But the hole would have to be in the same. Yeah. Yeah, the hole. Um, okay. So afterwards, the fescue turned brown in response to all the heat. The POA had greened up and that was that’s what gave it its modeled look. And partly in response to the controversy, but mostly as a concession to the inevitable here, Chambers decided to regrass all 18 of its greens with 100% POA between 2017 and 2019. So today, Chambers Bay, it’s publicly ranked as the top course in Washington. Um, but it has tough competition. It’s got Gamble Sands up north Brewster. It’s got others in the Seattle area. But one thing’s certain, whether it’s the Greens or even the steep hills and elevation change that get you, you’ll never forget your first time playing at Chambers. And I have not either. 100%. Yep. So, um I think we’ve covered some goods here. I’ll kick us off with the goods for Chambers. And my first one is the views. I will hand it to the course. If those who haven’t been there, like we described, you’re standing at the top of the Corey, so it feels like the hill essentially got dug away from you. So, you’re seeing this slow, gradual slope out to the to the sound, which is really, really cool. Um, and I think it just gets you really excited for the beginning of the round. It’s like a it wets your appetite like you can’t wait to start. Um, Jones, pros for you? Other pros? How many pros can I say? I there’s a couple that come immediately to mind. Um uh one I’ll just say creativity. You it’s like um it’s like a blank canvas and you could approach a shot so many different ways and that’s one of the biggest things I learned over the weekend is this girl like I think she just loved taking different angles into a hole. Like on eight I thought I was out of the way and she’s like I need you to move. like I’m blasting this putt up that backboard to come back down, you know, like and she would do it. Um there was a shot on the the short par4, I think it’s 16, that like I didn’t even know there was this collection area that feeds in and they’re like, “Yeah, just hit it over there.” Um that you can be so creative as like as creative as you want to be. So that’s very cool. Fairways for the most part are super wide. Um like yet yes the course is challenging but it’s not a course that you’re going to lose a bunch of balls unless you keep putting them into like fescue areas. Um so the fairways are wide open and just like it gives you the opportunity to hit a lot of really cool shots. So those are couple pros. I agree with that. I put whole layouts in here as well. So, like with the wide open fairways and the creativity, there’s not the same templates you would see at a lot of other courses, like par threes felt like it was a dog leg at times and you’re like, “Wait a dog leg par 3 makes no sense.” And you’re like, “Yeah, but look, if you look straight ahead, there’s just a big hill and then there’s a green tucked behind the hill on the left here and you can’t even see all the green.” But if you want to, you could play it on this hill and then it will run all the way down left onto the green. Like that’s a really cool layout for a par three that I hadn’t seen at many other places. Um and then the way that some holes go up and some come down. Like you’ll have one where you’re hitting a 3-wood and it’s like I only hit that like 180 because it like it’s so uphill. And then on like the back nine you hit a 3-wood and it’s like that went 250 because it just rolled forever off the off the fairway. So like I love the ability to kind of like try different shots with the same club. Yeah. every whole every that was when you said the word creativity I thought you were talking about you thought you were going to talk about the course layout itself because it’s like because they had an empty Corey they were able to almost do whatever they wanted to do with the layout so they just went crazy with it um and I also like the routing as well cuz like you’re very used to it like everything weaves within each other right like you’re so used to golf courses and either being a full oneway route out of all 18 or nine going out and back and then another nine going out and back in another direction. Whereas like this golf course is all intermixed on top of each other. And it’s kind of fun to like it’s kind of fun to be like when are we going to go play that hole? Uh when you kind of like walk by and you’re like I can’t wait till we get to that hole or like when do we go up on the hill and you’re like okay cool and then how do we come down the hill? Like what’s that routing like? So that’s it’s a lot of fun and it finishes so good. Like when I oftent times, you know, after 14 holes, I’ve had enough. And you’re like, you’re like, “Okay, we got four or five holes left. Like, let’s just kind of get through this and keep it together.” The way that the back nine finishes is so good. What TJ? Uh, is is 14 holes the perfect number of holes on a golf course? It is. Okay. It’s 14’s the number for you, Jones. Why Why is 14 the right number for you? be exactly why I just said like when I get to 14 I’ve had my fill. Even if I’m going even if I’m going good like that’s enough for me. If I’m I just feel like man mentally I can’t keep it together for 18 holes. So like 14 great. Nine leaves me wanting more. I want to play more golf. 15 16 17 18 but not here is my point. I want to play those holes. They’re amazing holes. I’m going to let you get I’m going to let you get to 15 through 18 at Chambers. Sean, I want to hear your optimal number of of holes in a golf round. 20. Oh my god, dude. Spoken like a true single digit. Like, get over yourself and playing good golf and being able to play. Oh, I can play more than 18. No, that’s not at all why I’m saying play more 18. Let’s let’s let’s hear why you want to play more than 18 then. But only 20. The same reason if someone turned the volume on a TV to 18 that you’d probably pick with the remote and just dial it up two more times to 20. Hand up. I am that guy. I Everything’s deep, man. I’m just like I’m like why 18? Like why not 20? 20 seems more even. And it’s like a 10 and a 10. And then and also like if I want to bet a dollar a hole, it’s a $20 bill. Like 18. I don’t know. It’s just weird. So yours yours isn’t anything. Yours has Yeah, yours is strictly OCD. Strictly just bothers me that it’s 18. Okay. Uh I’m I’m around with I’m around with Jones. I think 14 15 the amount of times I’ve like limped in on like 16 17 18. Uh so I think I think 14 15 is a good number. Uh I still think there’s a world out there in which somebody builds uh three sixhole golf courses and lets people play 612 or 18. And I think there’s a world in which 12 becomes the I won’t say the new norm, but I think more people will be clamoring for 12 holes of golf. Uh just because it’s a little bit more than nine. I could see that. I I just enjoy my time on a golf course regardless of how I play. I’m out on a golf course and that’s like where I will want to be. So I I get sad when it’s over. Uh, I mean, don’t get me wrong, definitely love more time on a golf course, but I’ve had really upsetting I’m probably here Jones is I’m probably preaching to the choir here to him. The amount of times I’ve had what was a great day for like three and a half hours almost ruined like a good majority of that day in a four-hole span. And what could have been a really great day has now been uh dialed back to a somewhat good day where you know I say it all the time at its worst it’s four hours out in nature sometimes with your boys sometimes enjoying a few beers. Uh but I’d also like to walk away from those four hours with a good score that I’m happy about too. You know it’s also rarely is it four hours. That’s the one of the biggest problems with golf is like the golf alone is going to be four and a half to five and then it’s well I got to have a beer after you’re driving definitely got to get there early six it’s a six to seven hour thing and that’s that’s why it needs to be 14 holes it’s a tough commitment as a family man speaking of that leans right into my pros because I’m the guy who gets to the golf course super early to do what to practice and Chambers has phenomenal practice facilities. Uh the the the gold star here, I’ll I’ll I’ll tip my hand a little bit early. Grass range. Uh more than enough space to hit into to where you can get all your distances dialed in and all of that. And then a an insanely large putting and chipping green to where you can get used to uh a lot of the shots that you’re probably going to need to have to hit that day on some of the larger green complexes out there. Interesting. I had the driving range and chipping green in my cons. Really? Well, let’s I mean, we can we can touch on that and if we need to bounce back into pros, we can bounce back into pros. That’s the cool thing about like this pod and golf is that you get different opinions on like the same thing and it it really is different to everyone who interprets it. Um, other pros I had I put fun vibe that felt like a mini band and dunes. Yeah. Uh, caddies walking only. That’s Yeah. No carts. No carts. Like it’s carts, which which like I know a ton of people are like, “Oh, no carts. I got to walk the whole time.” Dude, I encourage you to go just walk around of golf, especially with your friends where like you guys are kind of all walking together. You guys are all chopping it up. Like even off even even though I know we’re not all hitting in the same directions, like it just it’s so much more fun to just kind of be out there. And I think it just it also helps everyone’s game a little bit more. you have more time to decompress and forget about the last shot. And then also, I feel I always feel way more prepared to hit my next shot when I walk as opposed to being like, “All right, we drive up to the ball, we get out. What’s my number? Okay, grab a club.” And then like I’ll almost always forget like wind or elevation change because I feel like I’m just like the whole speeding and like or the whole like driving to the ball really fast and finding the ball and getting there like just makes everything else feel a little bit more rushed. And yeah, the walking while it does not actually slow the round down. Everyone who walks will attest to this. Does not slow the round down. It does slow down how your mind processes the game and how you feel about it. Well, the walking is going to go into my cons, so I’ll transition into the cons now, which is I enjoy the walk and I enjoy walking on a course. And I 100% agree with everything you said, but if there was a course that was tough to walk, Chambers would be up there with some some of the toughest. Yeah. Like you’re going to you’re putting in a workout like wear your fitness band on this walk and you’ll be very happy with the results. Like you are going uphill multiple times. It is a Corey and so you can’t always be in the bowl down below and so when you get up there seven eight nine and then you kind of come back around uh I forget what hold is Jones but on the back nine you kind of go not all the way up but kind of close and come back. Yeah. Yeah. So that whole stretch was tough. And if you guys remember I was sick. Uh yeah. And so I don’t think I had COVID, but I had something. And my heartbeat was racing on those hills. Like there are a few holes. Yeah, there’s like four holes that are hard. The front nine is a harder walk than the back. The back nine’s amazing. Once you finish that final kind of walk up eight, um I don’t think there’s another like super challenging walk the rest of the way. Um yeah, but yeah, the the walk can be tough. Uh especially when you’re, you know, pushing the cart around or if you’re carrying. Um yeah. Yeah. You’re going to be puffing on a couple holes for sure. So I had that as a con. I had driving range. So it’s on grass. I appreciated that. But it’s tucked in this weird spot. It’s like a It’s like It felt almost like an afterthought or a temporary driving range. And do you guys remember when we walked up the guy said that other range was down there, but it was closed? Yeah. Yeah. Um, there is another range. Yeah, I’m that one I’m not commenting on. Maybe that one’s really good. But the one we went on, which was by the turnst stand, it’s it’s like kind of on a hill almost and then it’s flat and then there’s another hill and I felt like there was no end or side to the driving range. It wasn’t that well defined, which some people could say was cool, but like a lot of balls were just out there and they kind of sloped towards like some of the golfers out there. It felt weird how it was positioned. And the chipping green wasn’t next to the putting green. It was across the path and it felt like an also an afterthought. Do you remember TJ when we chipped? We had to like walk away from the putting green to that other one. Yeah. You got to go past the tea box at one and it’s like between one and then whatever the green that butts up next to that is. So I I understand that. Um I don’t know. For me it’s a pro because it has all of those. I understand like the I also think that like it’s one of those ones where uh it also feels like because you don’t have a cart to maybe easily navigate between all of those. It feels like it’s a little bit more out of place because you’ve got to go walk all the way over there. Yeah. Um, I’m also wondering that does this become entirely outdated because uh I think they’re where they’re putting the new turn stand gets pushed back closer to where the driving range that we hit that day was. It’ll be right there. So, that driving range will now be just right outside the door of the turnand. And the putting green will be like right there as well. It’s going to be nice. It’s going to be awesome. That’ll be cool. I’d like to see that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I put turnstand uh as a con here. It got crowded. Like it was pretty hard to like when we finished nine, we I remember walking to 10 because our we waited as much as we could, but our group was up and I didn’t want to slow things down and I think TJ or someone hung back and brought stuff to me out there. Yeah. Um, but it got a little crowded there, a little bit of a bottleneck. And then my last con here we talked about was the restaurant post round scene that was just lacking for me. I really wish after Chambers all I wanted was a beer on that patio looking out over the course and nope couldn’t get it. Uh and the inside was kind of sad. It was like not the vibe whatsoever. It feels like an old folks home in there. It does. It does. It does. It does. And I remember I sat at the bar or I went to the bar and you guys just went outside like through the pro shop and I thought you were coming and then you’re like, “Yeah, it’s just not not the move.” And I was like, “No.” Yeah, you guys are right. I was forcing it. It’s a con. That is a big con for sure. Oh. Oh, and last con I have. You are a merch boy here, but the logo I’m not a big Chambers logo fan. The I will say the traditional mark of like what looks to be almost like two sails of a boat is not a great mark. Uh the the tree alternate logo. Mhm. Uh very much Allah old Mac where the I don’t I don’t really love the old Mac, but the the alternate logo of the ghost tree. Same thing with this one. The the lone tree out here is a is a really good mark. That’s the mark that I prefer. I made sure that when I bought my ball marker, that was the mark that I looked for on the ball marker. But yeah, the traditional logo is not not for me. I do not want uh I don’t think I bought any merch with the traditional logo on it. No, the the two sales logo fitting with the old folks home like it’s like, “Oh yeah, my grandparents live at Chambers Bay and like there’s the logo and this is where they eat dinner.” Yes, the tree is good. That’s what I have on my vest. So the tree is good. Sales are bad. My grandparents live at Chambers. This I I honestly think we talked about this like standing outside of the pro shop when we were there that day. Um infamously I’m not going to to let this one not come up. Uh this isn’t necessarily a pro or a con, but I can’t let Jones live this one down. uh standing on the course looking out over the over the water and Chris Jones has the nerve to ask all of us, what do you think this is called? This this this body of water right here. I don’t recall this. You ask all of us this. Here’s the better part. None of us knew right off the top of our head that like Wait, I would know this. Well, I I don’t know. I mean, maybe it was me. Maybe maybe it was just Jonesy and I I was like and then and then I was like, “Wait a second. It’s a bay.” Like, it’s it’s Chambers Bay. But then I think I was also come to find out it’s also the Puget Sound. I think that’s what I was asking is if it was Yes. Part of the sound. Yeah, it’s bad. It’s Puget Sound. Either way, yeah, but it definitely We’ll cut this. We’ll cut this. This isn’t going to make it. You can. Well, no. This isn’t making it. Hand up. I I have a con. I have a con. Yeah. Yeah. Um because I disagree on the on the practice facilities. I think they’re good. The con, if you are a fair skinned gentleman like myself, there is literally one tree. So, if it’s raining, if it’s windy, if it’s hot, you are in it. Um so, you need to plan for that. and be ready. Yeah, there’s nowhere to hide. Yeah, true. No, I remember it was I remember it was pretty warm that day that we played and I think I wore like joggers or pants on the assumption of like I just don’t want to be putting on sunscreen on my legs all day long. Yeah. Yeah, that course would be really tough in the wind. It’s so exposed. I could just see the wind crushing Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I forgot a pro. The train. The train that goes by. I did I did have that down. It’s pretty sick when you’re teeing off on that hole and it goes by. So, well, yeah. I mean, the pro I mean water, the the the bay and the sound. Yeah. It’s every hole. It’s right there. That’s great. The bay sound. The bay sound. Uh, there’s for sure going to be someone that chimes in in the comments on here. So, for those of you who live up there, tell us we’re wrong or right. Uh, please. I will also say, and this could be this could be this we’ll obviously debate this a little bit more. If you’re not a county or city resident, it’s it’s pretty pricey for expensive for what it is. I understand that it has hosted a US Open. Um, but for the price that I would pay, uh, I’m generally expecting good golf and a good golf course, which it delivers, but I’m expecting all of the other amenities associated with my round of golf to be elevated as well. Um, what what did we pay? Do you remember? I think it was like 325 or 350, I think. Out of state. I heard someone in the bathroom saying they paid 3 something. I I paid I think it was 240 for instate and then there’s even more discounts for people that are like in Pierce County or whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. Which like in you know gold standard comparison here Tory Pines is like 280 for non-residents and then no never more than 100 for residents of San Diego. Yeah. So it’s just it’s Should we use that as a segue to get into the mustplay test? Let’s do it. All right. Um, before we do, let’s hear again from our sponsor for today’s episode, Clinch Golf. TJ, I want to talk to you about our sponsor for today’s episode, Clinch Golf. I’ve been using their glove for about 6 months now in the Arizona Heat. It’s still holding up. I put it in the bag, I pull it out, and it looks just like it did when I threw it in, unlike other gloves, which are all crinkled. It has some of the best grip on the clubs that I’ve ever felt. And I’m honestly very impressed. I know it has something to do with how they make the glove. Maybe you could talk a little bit more about the one that you have. Yeah. I mean, I know that people think like a non leather golf glove, hard pass, but like let’s think about this. What used to always be leather in the game of golf? The grips. What is no one using anymore? Leather golf grips. They’ve been replaced with more synthetic or rubber materials that enhance the grip, that feel a lot better. Why would you not think about doing the exact same thing with your gloves? And like these gloves, they’re reinforced in the palm, so they’re not going to tear in that spot where almost every golf glove has ever torn across the entirety of time. And they may have accidentally created the best worst business model ever, where we’re not looking to replace these gloves for over 6 months. So, if you’re someone who wants to see the difference and upgrade your golf game, you’re going to want to visit clinchgolf.com and use promo code fairwagers to get 10% off today. All right, let’s get into the mustplay test. TJ and I have devised an objective test of 10 questions here to determine if a golf course is truly a mustplay. The course must score a six out of 10 to be up for debate or get a seven out of 10 or higher to automatically earn the coveted mustplay status. So question one, the Augusta test. Is this course easy to get a tea time on? Does it have a straightforward booking process? And are there times available the week of your intended play? Jones, please kick us off. Uh yeah, answer is yes. I I think I booked around I booked the round on Saturday morning and I played it Sunday morning. Granted, I was a single so there were a lot more options. Um, but yes, you can you can find times. I would say pass. Do we think the price is a bit of a barrier to some people to makes it available to find times? I would probably yeah that was one of my thoughts here was being like man are these are these two questions uh inversely proportional to each other where the more expensive a golf course is actually the easier it is to get a tea time at. But here’s what’s also kind of well that’s only that’s four I was sometimes I like to check this question live uh while we’re recording the pod. So, I’m looking at this Saturday. Uh, for anything over one player is what I what I looked at, there’s uh seven total tea times available for this upcoming Saturday for one player. Pass for me. That’s good. You guys think that’s good? I couldn’t do that at right now. That’s also I mean I yeah I mean I’m I’m very I guess for a US Open course that is like that is the top public course in the state I think yeah it having tea times available for that weekend uh there’s nothing over a threeplayer I will say that yeah but if I wanted to play Tory right now like I’ve been looking months out and I can’t find anything unless I find a random time someone dropped on a Wednesday. Yeah, that’s fair. That’s fair. I think Yeah, I think it gets a pass then. Okay, so we’re a pass. One for one. Question two, the bang for your buck test. Is this golf course worth the rate you pay? Do you feel like this course is a good value during peak season? So you just played this is peak season summer out there. Uh so I I pay a discounted rate though, I guess. So, I would say for 215 to 240 it Yeah, that’s a little bit expensive. Mhm. But it’s a pass for me because it I don’t think I’ve said this yet uh on this podcast, but it is my favorite golf course. Like, I love it. I have fallen in love with it. Wow. It’s It’s my favorite course. Yeah. Well, what about for the out oftowners, TJ? What do you think? Uh I think it’s a fail. Uh, I just had it in my cons. Uh, looking at the looking at the T- sheet right now, any time before I would assume their designated twilight starts at 3 p.m. Uh, the max value that it has is 345. Uh, the twilight rate only goes down 30 bucks uh down to 3:15. I understand that this is this is Washington in the summer. uh your so-called twilight round, you’re still gonna get your full round of golf in. Even even taking off 3 pm, you are going to finish that round of golf. Uh so it doesn’t make sense to give it this wild discount. But even at that, like what looks to be even the cheapest rate that you can get down to, which is uh it goes it goes advanced booking, non-resident, Washington State, Pierce County res, and then golf club member, which I would assume the golf club member gets the cheapest rate. Still 160. Uh so that that that 340 that 345 for uh again spoiling questions here in the future, but that 345 for at this time not a great turn stand, a range that some people don’t like and a restaurant that feels like the food hall in a retirement home. Yeah. Uh it it’s not worth the 345 to me. I think I think if you even if you tucked it in at like $299 and you could fool me into the not remembering that it was almost $300, I think I could swallow that a little bit better, but it being fully like that close to $350 is too much for me to handle. Yeah. Okay. So, I’m the tiebreaker here. This is how I interpret this question sitting here in Arizona. Okay. during peak seasons part of this question. If you’re coming from the Midwest and you don’t have desert golf, right, which we get plenty of people coming in the winter for peak season here in Arizona, for that amount of money, 300, let’s call it, they’re going to play a Scottsdale course that’s going to give them not only desert golf, but mint condition. It’s going to come with all the amenities, great restaurants, bar, places to practice. Like there’s plenty of Scottsdale and other courses around the valley that for 300 during peak season, that’s the sweet spot for like you’re going to get on a really nice course and get all those things. For me coming to Washington, it’s the equivalent of I live in the desert. I don’t have water next to me. I want to be next to the water. So, I’m paying for that premium, right? And I’m I’m getting that thing, but I’m not getting the restaurant patio post scene afterwards and the turn stand not being open like right now and stuff like that. And I just feel like it’s just golf as opposed to the whole experience for that amount of money. And so it’s right on the cusp of like is it worth it once? Maybe. But if I live local and I had to convince out oftowners to come and pay that and they expect these things and I’m like, “Oh, by the way, those things aren’t that great.” It’s hard for me to sell. So I’m failing this one. I’m sorry, Jones. I know. Eight and know it hurts, but I I understand. I do understand. I think it’s going to do well on a lot of these questions, but that one I think is a fail. So, yeah. One for two. Uh, question three, the Iverson test. Does this course have good practice facilities? Would you spend time warming up here or just head for the bar before the round? We talk about practice. Not a game. Not a cave. Practice. TJ, your pass, I’m assuming, on this one. Uh, yeah. I mean, we just talked about it in our pros. Grass range, separate chipping green, separate putting green very much sets you up for what you are expecting to see out on the golf course. I can’t speak to that other range. It was not open that day. Maybe Jonesy can touch on that a little bit if he’s been out there. But also, uh, I know we just kind of we’ve dinged it on a little bit on their existing turn stand, but it sounds like the new turnstand is going to only make that range even a little bit better that the drinks will be right there available for you. Yeah. Yep. I agree. It’s a pass for me and I think it’s like definitely a pass when that thing is done. Um, the other range not great. So, when I was there, we were down there because there was a frost delay. Like the tea time got delayed by like three and a half hours. So, everyone was down there and it’s Mats on that other one. I don’t know if it’s always Mats, no flag sticks. The other range, in my opinion, sucks. Maybe I just had a weird experience because it was um frost that day, but the main range when you’re hitting off grass. It’s great. I like the putting green, you know? I like to have a drink, set it down right off the edge, putt, walk right up to one. I like it. It’s a pass for me. Okay. So, for posterity reasons, I’m a fail, but it’s a past majority rules here. So, uh, two for three. Question four, the Jonesy test, named after our dear friend Chris Jones. Could you see yourself spending $100 on merch in their pro shop? Do they have a logo or apparel worth wearing? Jones, please go for it. So, I I have spent $100 on a couple occasions. It Thank God they have that tree logo because if it was just the sales, I would fail it. But there’s enough cool things there. Um, and that tree logo is good. It’s the one tree on the course. So, I don’t want I’m not I don’t want to sit here and just pass everything. Um, but I have spent $100 here. So, I I think I have to pass it. At least $100. And yeah, at least $100. Yeah. Sean, I’m interested in hearing your your take on this first. Okay. So, uh, around this time, TJ and I were just getting into the mustplay pod. Uh, we also for the record, we are almost, uh, to the date we played this last year. I just looked, uh, it was it was June 28th last year, so it was almost to the date. Yeah. Nice. Um, and so I remember I need to take note of what’s in this pro shop. And it was a good pro shop. like it had it was smaller but it had a lot of good options and it had some cool merch that was tied to the US Open. I remember I saw there too and for people who are collecting you know major tournament stuff like you played a US Open course you might want a little memorability from that. I thought that was neat but the sales and the logo I was like just not feeling this and I kept holding up shirts I would have bought and I was like a just I don’t really like that logo that much. Um, so I’m on the fence. I’m going to give it a half point here, TJ. And I’m going to let you be the decider. Okay. That this is kind of why I asked because I think I was encroaching on half point territory as well. I know I don’t love to do half points all that often. I like I like for us to kind of just take some firm stands, but here is here’s my full thought. Don’t love the sales logo. Really like the tree logo. And it’s one of those courses that you want to tell people that you have gone and played at before. Yeah. Uh you can’t just get away with buying the ball marker or the hat. you you want to have some other substantial stuff with it on it because also it’s for a lot of people it’s not a course that’s necessarily easy to go out and get to to fly you know into SeaTac and then get over to it or it’s it’s not a there’s not a ton of other stuff around it. You are making that bucket list pilgrimage golf trip to go play Chambers or if you’re the guys who are flying into Portland and you’re playing other stuff in in Portland Vancouver area like we were. So I think on like almost principle alone for most people who are going to go do this they are going to go spend a hundred bucks in this pro shop. Yeah. Did I? No. But our people Yes. So for me that’s going to be that half point or just I’m just going to give it a full pass and give it the full pass for this question. Well the half point would get it over the line anyways. So that’s what I mean. No matter what no matter if I give it the the five or the full, it’s a pass. All right. We’re sweating these ones out, but it passed. So, we are three for four. Question five, the buzzworthy test. Are there multiple holes worth talking about? Does this course have more than one hole that a group would want to immediately go play again? Let me start this and say firm pass on this one. I think out of all the questions, this is the one I passed first. Um, so many iconic holes there. For me personally, was number nine, the par three, hitting down onto that green. I just wanted to like drop maybe five balls and just try different shots into that green. That was a lot of fun. 18 really cool seeing those things down the right hand side, the structures and just dog walkers going by on the public park and like that whole vibe was so cool. I wanted to hang out there for a little bit. And then is it uh 16 that goes along the railroad track uh being right next to the water. That one was fun. So I’m a firm pass on Buzzworthy. Um, Jones, how about you? Yeah, this this is super easy pass. Like I feel like all 18 holes are so unique and fun. You could talk about different ways to approach all of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This this course is a strong early contender for our year-end recap to be the course that you think of when you think of the buzzworthy test. Uh it’s one of the it’s one of the first ones where I’m like, “Oh, there’s so many different ways to play every par four and every par five on this golf course.” Uh and like I said, it’s one of those ones that as you play more over time, you start to learn where your preferred position is on this golf course, but that changes uh person to person, right? Like there’s so many time there’s so many times where you think you hit a safe shot in this golf course and it’s the worst place to be in and you’re still in a fairway. So yeah. Yeah. There’s there’s so many holes on this golf course that I’d love to play over again. And I I fingers crossed. I know it’s still going to cost me $350, but I’d love to get up there and play it again some. Okay, so four for five. Uh, doing well here. Question six might come up some uh might be tough question to answer here. A little adversity. The Gizzy test. Does this course have good food at the turn? Are you eating here or packing your own snacks? Yeah, this one turn on Sunday, John. Huh? Did you get food or was the turn closed? Well, maybe this maybe this answers the question, but I packed my own snacks. I did not get food at the turn. So, go ahead. Yeah, I I this is specific to snacks at the turn. Is that correct? Yes, specific to that. Correct. I mean, currently I feel like you have to fail it. It’s hard for me to say like, you know, one of the guys was so excited about this oven that they’re going to have in the new place, whatever that means. Like, I’m sure it’s going to be great in the future. Well, one, that makes me think they’re doing that makes me think that they’re doing a nice brick oven for pizzas. And I don’t think they’re doing that. I don’t think I don’t think that’s what’s happening either way. I would put money that that’s not happening. I think this one gets uh gets a for now fail in my book. Uh in its current state and even in its prior state from when we went last year, the old turnstand and how it’s functioning at this very moment is a fail. But I would love to come back and revisit this question in the future and potentially, you know, bump up the rating for them and update everybody that the new turnstand blows the pants off of any turnst stand we’ve ever been to. Yeah, currently the the the trailer next to the Porta Johns is a tough look, so it’s it has to fail right now. All right, I’m a fail as well. Uh, so that is four for six. Uh, question seven, the Marshall test. Does this course have a decent pace of play? Can you rely on a relatively quick round here if you have somewhere to be after? Jones, your round was pretty long. I looked on 18 birdies. Yeah. So, the it is a long round in general. It’s a long round. The fastest round I ever played was the one in January where Frost, so they did a shotgun start. We had no one in front of us. We played it in three hours and 45 minutes. that I think the first group that goes off they’re supposed to play it around that but otherwise it it’s long like you will probably play a 5 hour round there if you’re not playing early in the morning which might be a factor of how much you’re walking as well right like yes people sit and take their shoes off on some tea boxes I’ve seen people like need to rest the dogs a little bit uh yeah it’s I think it’s not a slow It’s not slow because of the way other courses are slow. Um, but yeah, you know, we waited on probably, I don’t know, maybe 10 shots. Yeah. So, it’s tough because it’s not it doesn’t feel like it’s the product of a Marshall or lack thereof or greediness of the golf course to overbook tea times cuz I think even when I just looked I think tea times were spaced out at least 10 minutes maybe even like like when I looked I think it was like I saw three and then I think I saw 312 so you’re looking at probably 10 to 12 minutes between tea times it’s not encroaching on that that 8 minute mark that we’re all starting to really notice is a detriment to all of our rounds and the time that it takes. I think like John said, the the humongous issue here is just how long and the elevation changes that are associated with this golf course. And I think it also speaks to its difficulty. Uh we we if we’ve really got to come out here and and put people on a shot clock for looking for their balls in the fescue or in the rough. Um, but then also like your I can’t I I wish I could remember what hole it is. I think it’s a I think it was a par five, but like Jones sprayed one out to the right and Jones went down in this humongous ravine to go find his ball that was in a fairway on this hole. And it’s like, yeah, like the process of going to do that, go down to your ball, maybe look to see if everybody else is hit or whatever, or you hit yours, and then come back up out of that hole to get into like the main portion of the fairway to then walk up to the green because you can’t because it’s a lot of that fescue and that that that dense rough, you can’t walk in a lot of straight lines or you can’t do a lot of like even tangent lines. You’ve got to like Yeah, it’s a very it’s a lot of hard like 90 degree turns to get in and out of places. So, I think it just I think it just compounds over the round. Um, and because a lot of blind shots, too. If you’re out of position, you’re hitting over hills and you don’t know where your ball’s going. So, you got to go find it. Yeah. Can you restate the question, though? What’s the criteria again? Yeah. So, does it have a decent pace of play or can you rely on a quick round here if you have somewhere to be after? So, the final part of that I don’t you’re not playing here if you have somewhere to be after. I don’t think you shouldn’t at least right so that’s a that’s a fail or is it or is it a pass because you have planned accordingly saying I know I’m playing chambers that day I have no we asked this question if you have to somewhere to be after it that’s the point of question then it’s then it’s a fail because it’s like then it’s a fail because you can’t yeah you couldn’t count on it not being a five hour round if it wasn’t great but it might Okay, that’s tough. That’s a tough fail. That’s I don’t feel good about that one. It’s tough because it’s not it’s it’s not what we fail other golf courses on this test for, right? It’s not No, I said it’s it’s not the t it’s not the tea time spacing. It’s not the marshall just not giving a F. It’s not people around. It’s just it’s just a product of the layout of the golf course. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe people not realizing how fast three minutes goes when you’re looking for your golf ball. Four for seven. It has to pass two of the next three questions to be up for debate. Question eight, the high handicapper test. Would a mid to high handicapper enjoy this course in typical conditions? Is it fair to all handicaps? And are the greens or pin positions fair? Okay. If the high handicapper is going to play the right TE’s, yes. Yeah, you have to play the right TE’s. I I think in this question you have to assume they know what yardage they want to play, right? So from the appropriate TE’s, do you think it’s fair? It’s going to be one of the best courses they play in their life. It’s going to be hard. Mhm. They got to they got to see it forward and so I’m going to pass it next. You’re giving it a pass because of that. Okay. Yes. Yes. DJ, please. I want you to go next. So, uh, I’m looking at 18 birdies from last year. We played a combo T as well. We played 6,300 yards. Uh, some would probably say that I need based upon my handicap, I need to move it up a little bit, right? Uh, but I can assure you that the reason my handicap is that high is not necessarily because of a lack of distance or anything associated with that. It’s usually actual ball control. And sometimes it does not matter if I am a T- box up. If the driver ain’t working that day, it’s not going to matter what T- box I’m on. Uh, so this is a this is a tough one for me to say that this could be a pass whether or not you’re playing from the right TE’s or not. Do I think that Jones would have played a better score if he didn’t play from 7100 the other day? Absolutely. Uh, but would I have shot better than the 107 I shot last year if I moved up a few T- boxes? I don’t know. I have 41 putts. So, but did you have fun? I mean, I played a round of golf with my boys. Of course, I had fun. Like, um Yeah. Again, on this golf, what’s really funny is that you talk about this golf course and I threw away this golf round at at uh at 15 that day. I I I played the last I played the last four holes of this golf course really really terribly. um and throw away what could have been a decent round for me. I have a tough time passing this one. Are you going to half point it or are you What are you going to do? Fail. Sean, I want to hear yours first. Okay. I think courses that are unfair to higher handicaps have a few tricks up their sleeves. And those tricks are usually a person who’s better off the tea has a different line than a person who’s not as good. So when we play Greyhawk, TJ, for example, right? Yeah. It’s like in my field of vision, I didn’t see any ravine or break in desert before the fairway started or I I was going over a tree this way versus the obvious landing zone. Uh, another trick is false fronts on greens where it’s like a high handicapper might not have the most distance control on from the fairway and if they leave it short, it’s going to roll 90 ft down, right? That’s another trick. Another one might be out of bounds, desert or woods or whatever and just like spraying it left and right and there’s OB everywhere. Chambers kind of gets away with none of the not having any of those things. like it’s got the wide fairways and it’s got options for everyone regardless of what position you’re in. And so even though it’s tough, I think it’s fair and if you’re playing the right TE’s, I am passing this because A, I think you’re going to enjoy this. You’re going to be like, I got to play Chambers. So that’s part of this question. B, I think it’s fair because we’re taking the same lines and the same types of shots from where we’re playing from. It’s just more so the execution. Um, and so I’m going to pass on here for test for this one. That’s fine. There’s there’s I I I’ll I’ll disagree slightly knowing that there’s a handful of holes on this golf course that it it necessarily does not matter there. The like I can’t remember what that long I think it’s hole eight, that really narrow par4 that plays up the hill. Uh, and that’s the one that plays at the very top of the Corey along the Yes. So, yeah. So, so if you hit it left, it’s like dead up on the hill that’s coming down into the Corey. And if you play it right, it goes down to the next, it either catches in that rough and you’ve got to try and figure out, do I drop this? Do I try and find it or what? And then also like nine. Nine is another one where it’s like, oh yeah, there’s a definite forced carry here. Um to where there’s no like reprieve if you if you kind of duff one and can leave it even a little bit short. But I understand where you guys are coming at. I do think that because the fairways are a little bit more open, it can get a pass. I can I can see where you guys are coming from, even though I might overall disagree. I I have two points of clarity to make real quick. One, I just looked at 18 birdies. I played 6,700 yards, not 71. 71 would have been the tips, I believe, that day. Okay, so don’t roast me in the comments. Let the record state. Two, I looked at the pace of play for each round. I only have four rounds in 18 birdies. Three of them were over five hours. One was 5 hours and 23 minutes. That was our one that wasn’t The one that wasn’t five hours was 3 hours and 40 minutes. So like there are extremes. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, either way, it’s passing this one. So, yeah, sweating that one out. Yeah. I like we did the What are you going to shoot today? And I don’t know if all of us had just blind confidence that day because it was this was the last round of golf that I think we played over that trip too. And and none of us hit the score that we thought we were going to shoot that day. No. And we got hammered on social for being like, “Oh my god, all these guys are lying about their handicaps.” And it’s like, no, like this is a US Open golf course. Like it’s tough. Soough. So, but we just passed it on high handicap tests because I think it’s fair. I think it’s just not easy. Like there’s a difference between unfair and fair. Okay. Okay. So, five for eight. It’s got to pass one of these next two questions to be up for debate. Question nine, the vibes test. Is this course worth staying at post round? Do they have a good restaurant or patio seat? We This don’t even We can’t even try and dance around. What do you mean it’s not fair? That’s the question. because that whole thing’s gonna change soon. Fail. Yeah. I mean, question is that I’ve only looked at like a handful of renderings and only read a little bit. Is there intention that people will they think people will stay down at the turn stand now and not go up restaurant? Yes, 100%. Yeah. I I I still think I prefer the view at the restaurant, but Well, the view is going to be better up top. Yeah, maybe it’ll But it’s still really good down there. Maybe it’ll split the amount of people that are trying to go up to the restaurant and you’ll have more availability in the restaurant. But the vibes of the staff vibes go up top. The patio can’t be that old. Yeah, there’s more to vibes than just the restaurant and the drinks after. Like what about the staff? Amazing starters, amazing staff. Like Jones, we went on a boy trip and we didn’t even stay. It’s more That’s what I’m saying. Vibes are more than just about staying after the round, right? This is a vibes during the round. All right. It’s a fail. It’s a fail. It’s a fail. All right. Five for nine. It’s got to pass this next one. The dime a dozen test. Is this course unique to the area or could you get this golf experience somewhere else? Triple visit. I think we know which way Jones is going. It’s a pass for him. It’s a pass for me. Sean, pass for me. Yeah. It’s we’ve we’ve we’ve talked at Nauseium about how cool the golf course is and how unique it’s unique in the United States. Like it it really is. There’s only a handful of West Coast golf courses that are right on a coast that have views like that and then have the history or the heritage that this course has too being a newer course. It opened in 2007. Um that is that is one of the more interesting things is that we haven’t even hit this course’s 20th anniversary yet. And No. Yeah. It’s nut. Yeah. So, but we’re passing. Yes. Yeah, that’s a pass. All right. Six for 10. We haven’t done this in a while. It’s time for the debate. Okay. You can bring up anything you want in this, but I want to kind of keep it to a minute or less if you can. Um, Jones, you want to go first or you want to go last? I’ll go first because I I actually think this is very fair and I think the people that play it a lot, the people that have played a few times would agree the debate is necessary. The amenities like it just needs that better experience and that would put it over the top. Also, like if there was a cool hotel somewhere near that property like that would help out. if there was another course like a nine-hole or something. There are a few things that could like really put it over the top, but for what it is, it’s great. Um, it sits at a six when those when that turnand thing is done. It’s an easy mustplay, but we’re forward thinking people. It’s going to be there. This is a mustplay. Let’s just get it there. That’s all I need to say. There’s a lot of ifs. There’s no ifs hotel if there was a 9hole course. Those things would be cool. Like as a destination golf course, it would help to have those be like, but you can imagine what it’ be like if Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is absolutely a mustplay. I think the way that it shook out in the score is fair. That’s I appreciate you saying that. This test was truly trying to be objective, you know, and I think it does that. I think it puts it through a rubric. Um, yeah. TJ, you want to go last or next? Uh, I can I mine’s pretty short and sweet. I’m not known for necessarily being short and sweet on this podcast, but in 6 months to a year, if we redid this test with this golf course, it’s going to pass the turnstand test. There’s I don’t see a world in which that turnstand does not it’s obviously a dramatic increase from what it is currently and I don’t see a world in which it’s not going to pass in the future. So if it is going to pass in the near future then we might as well just pass it today and make it. It’s the six it goes 6 to 8 which makes me go 6 to midnight. So it’s a pass. Just let that one marinate for a little. Yeah, we’re not going to cut that one at all. All right, Sean. Wow. How do I follow that? Um, okay. I I’m not on board with the whole, well, if it’s going to pass, then we pass now mentality. I see your points. If I’m judging this as it is today at a six out of a ten, is it a must play? I’d say yes, it is. And it’s something that I think comes back to, I forget which one of you said it was, you’re going to want to let people know you played here. I think that’s what makes it a must play. That statement alone, cuz you’re like, that’s such a cool experience course. Everyone recognizes it when they hear the name. People have been thinking about going out there. They want to know how was it because I’ve been trying to get out there and I haven’t got out there yet. And you’re ultimately going to tell a story that’s positive about it and you’re probably going to be like, “Yeah, man. If you’re out there, you got to go play it.” And that’s the definition of mustplay. Um, and so it is a pass. And the other thing I’d like to say too, just real quickly before we kind of end this, is how many other courses in that area would be a mustplay? There’s other courses out there that I am really anxious to go play that have a completely different vibe or feel to the course. There’s some that are like in the woods and that have tons of trees and some that are going to be flat but like feel very P&W. This one doesn’t feel like anything else I’ve ever played it. Like how many times have you played in this type of experience? Um and we’ve played in a Corey course before. We reviewed one on this pod down in Tucson and this thing just puts, you know, is a whole different ball game. So, it’s a must play for me. Yep. Yeah. I have a I have a for the people that made it this far, like hour and a half, whatever into this podcast, I have a factoid cool thing for you. Um, after the 12th hole, which is the really cool like short drivable big punch hole green, when you when you get to the T- box on 13, there’s this little thing in the ground. It’s called the lore of Chambers Bay. It’s like a take one leave one. You open it up, there’s balls in there. There’s TE’s in there. There was a flask in there. Um, there’s currently right now, I don’t know if it’s still there, there’s a mustplay sticker in there. So, it’s very cool. If you need a ball, grab a ball out of there. Um I’ll I took a picture so you like you can put that up here too. I don’t know how to do your job, but yeah. Yeah, it’s cool. It’s very cool. Yeah. And if you want a mustplay sticker and it’s still there, it’s yours for the finders. Finders finders keepers. Uh I also think it’s very interesting that both times we’ve had Jones on, we’ve gone to debate for the golf courses. True. We went to debate on Wildwood as well. Yeah. Yeah. Both fun. Which which again also I think uh I won’t I won’t digress for too long, but Wildwood has done some things to turn around their fail at the turn to to to to write that ship. I don’t know if I don’t know if we had a hand in that, but uh yeah, if you’re listening, hey Ryan. All right. Well, Chambers Bay, congratulations. Six out of 10, but you’re officially a mustplay according to this pod. Um Jones, thank you for joining today. We’ve had you on now for two must plays in a bonus round. I’m sure this won’t be the last time people hear from you. Any uh courses that you are anxious to kind of maybe bring to the pot again? Anything in your area or somewhere else that you’d love to cover? I would love to argue um on behalf of Heron Lakes. Oh, Heron Lakes Portland. Okay. Yeah, that might be something we could talk about. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We just got to get TJ out there. Yeah. Also, Jones, have you gotten out to this new um short course in Portland? The the shortland, the par three course that’s got the artificial greens and artificial tea boxes. No. Yeah. No, I just found out about this. I didn’t even know it was a thing. Full circle, Sean. I believe that’s uh when we talked to Scott uh PNW. Oh, the one that was opening. That’s what he was talking about when he talked about when he told us about a new course opening up that was going to be mostly artificial. Uh it was this it was the Shortland golf course. It’s a 19hole par three shorter course. Yeah. Yeah. I’d be happy to go do some research for you guys. Synthetic synthetic tea boxes, greens, and bunkers. Oh, I didn’t know about the bunkers. Yeah. I think when TJ and I come out together next, we want to play I I need to get him on Heron Lakes. Um I want to get him on uh Reserve really badly and then we’ll figure out maybe Shortland or something else. Um but all right. Well, thank you to everyone who stuck around uh for the entire episode. If you don’t already, please make sure to subscribe to MustPlay wherever you get your podcast and rate us five stars. You can also watch the video version of these podcasts over on YouTube. uh just search fair wagers and we also drop occasional matches and non-podcast content on the channel. There’s a video of Jones and I playing Thrivven at uh Southern Dunes which is a little game we made up. But Jones, thank you so much for joining today and we’ll see you guys next time. Thanks guys.
